The MindThatEgo Podcast

In this episode I’m joined by Isabel Clarke, a consultant clinical psychologist with 25 years experience in both inpatient and outpatient care for the NHS. In addition to her clinical work, she supports people experiencing spiritual emergency and extreme states through the Spiritual Crisis Network. Her books include Meeting Mental Breakdown Mindfully, Madness, Mystery and the Survival of God, and, the main talking point, Psychosis and Spirituality. We explore the similarities between mystical experience and mental breakdown, how the brain filter’s reality, the fluidity of the self, the mythical nature of transliminal dimensions, the transformative potential of psychosis, why boundaries are essential when accessing non-dual states, and what supports people in crisis, on a personal and institutional level. MindThatEgo’s ethos is an expansive approach to mental illness, and it was inspiring to talk to Isabel, who not only honours this paradigm, but is having a huge influence on translating that insight into therapeutic care, challenging restrictive models, and placing emphasis on the human experience. Resources and References: IsabelClarke.org Article: ‘Psychosis and Spirituality: the journey of an idea’ Books

In this episode I’m joined by Jungian analyst and acclaimed author, Dr. Murray Stein, to discuss Jung’s Map of the Soul. Dr. Stein is a graduate of Yale University, the University of Chicago, and the C.G. Jung Institut-Zurich. He is a founding member of the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts and of the Chicago Society of Jungian Analysts. He has been the president of the International Association for Analytical Psychology (2001-4), and the President of The International School of Analytical Psychology-Zurich (2008-2012). He is a training analyst at the International School for Analytical Psychology in Zurich, Switzerland. His most recent publications include The Principle of Individuation, Jung’s Map of the Soul and Analytical Psychology and Religion. He lectures internationally on topics related to Analytical Psychology and its applications in the contemporary world. It was a pleasure to talk to Dr. Stein, whose expertise and insight provided a reliable base to journey into the richness of Jung’s body of work. Our dialogue includes discussion on the “numinous,” the nature of the shadow, the ego’s role in transformation, how dreams guide us to wholeness, and the life-affirming experience of synchronicity. MurrayStein.com Murray Stein | On the Importance of Numinous Experience in the Alchemy of Individuation

Ellen Emmet is a psychotherapist, facilitator of Authentic Movement, and offers meetings in The Awakening Body: Yoga meditations in the tradition of non-duality and Kashmir Shivaism that she learnt from her teachers Francis Lucille and Eric Baret. She offers webinars and residential retreats. Her offering is an exploration of our true nature at the level of tactility and feelings, but also an inquiry into the hidden corners of the psyche to invite more wholeness into our lives. More specifically, The Awakening Body meetings focus on the body, “allowing it to be our mirror and our pathway, our prayer and our altar, and ultimately the shining expression of this shared identity.” Our conversation explores the complex topic of nonduality and the shadow. Ellen’s growing intuition matched my own, that nondual teachings can often be used as a way to escape difficult emotions or feelings, or even disown the body, and overlook or avoid the shadow. With training in Jungian philosophy, including working directly with Jungian analyst Marion Woodman, Ellen brings wisdom and openness to exploring this oversight. Topics include connecting to the wisdom of the body, relational alchemy, the pain of separation, nonduality as a hiding place, ever-present nature of peace, the path of devotion, the role of the divine feminine, and ways to avoid ego inflation. EllenEmmet.com

Reverend Doctor John Freese is a Buddhist minister in the Dhamma Vinaya Order. He was a monk for 12 years (1998-2010) with Thich Nhat Hanh at Plum Village and Deer Park monasteries in France and California, and was with two gurus in the Ramana Maharshi lineage in Tiruvannamalai India. He has just completed his PhD in practical theology from the Claremont School of Theology, where his dissertation compared Buddhist meditation with somatic trauma therapy.  Prior to his PhD he completed a Master of Divinity in Buddhist chaplaincy at University of the West. He has a private Buddhist counseling practice and teaches classes in contemplative studies at University of the West and Naropa University. My conversation with John was inspired by his comparison of Goenka’s Vipassana and Peter Levine’s Somatic Experiencing. I discovered his paper while researching The Yoga of Mental Illness and was inspired by the detailed comparison of these two modes of healing and their striking similarities, despite forming in distinct cultures and different eras. As we dance around this structural comparison, we cover pertinent questions from the nature of emotions, the relationship between sensation and thought, implicit and explicit memory, Buddhist psychology, principles of somatic experiencing, Taoist cosmology, maps of the self, expanding awareness, and the nature of trauma from these distinct perspectives. This is a philosophical and practical dialogue with an uplifting message about the ability to get to the root of trauma, heal, and return home to the body. Resources and References: Down with the Dharma Podcast Two Maps of the Same Territory? Functional Correlations Between Vipassana Meditation as Taught by S.N. Goenka and Somatic Experiencing SomaticExperiencing.com

Emma Varvaloucas is the Executive Director of the Progress Network, an idea's movement that connects and amplifies voices that are pointing our world in a more positive direction. She is also the co-host of the What Could Go Right? Podcast, and was previously the Executive Editor at Tricycle: The Buddhist Review. Her unique perspective is shaped by her double-major in journalism and religious studies. Our conversation follows the arc of first introducing Emma’s background in Buddhism, exploring various tenets and foundations of the philosophy, from ethics, guruism, to the benefits of community. Emma shares the way in which Buddhism offers a more skillful lens to view the world, as well as tools to engage with global affairs from a responsible, not reactive, space. We then focus on the role of the media in shaping reality, where Emma shares guidance around how to deal with the never-ending news cycle, as well as various practices, from sourcing information to understanding the way news is made, to empower the process, and help create a brighter image of the future. Links to Emma’s work: Website: https://www.emmavarv.com/ The Progress Network: https://theprogressnetwork.org/ What Could Go Right? Podcast: https://open.spotify.com/show/5wtSK9WyigHxU8AOLl86cY Resources and References: How to Read the News Without Losing Your Mind – Emma Varvaloucas

Dr. Steven C. Hayes is the originator of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT), identified as part of the “third wave of cognitive behavioral therapy.” He’s a Professor of Psychology at the University of Nevada, the author of 47 books, including Get Out of Your Mind and Into Your Life and A Liberated Mind. Ranked in the top 1,000 most cited scholars in the world, Steven has been referred to as “one of the greatest thinkers, psychological theorists, and clinicians alive.” With close to 1,000 clinical trials showing its efficacy, ACT synthesizes many approaches, including Western psychology and Eastern philosophy. My interest started when reading Russ Harris’ The Happiness Trap, and finding an approach that mirrored my personal journey. Building upon cognitive therapy, ACT includes awareness, mindfulness, the “observer,” and other Buddhist-like techniques. Factor in its emphasis on living a life aligned with values, and you have a system designed to lead to greater fulfillment. What I most admire about Steven’s work is the practicality of his research, or in his words, “digging down to the processes that empower or entrap” and trying to find the skill sets that are most effective. Our conversation looks at those processes, but also expands to the wider philosophy of the mental health paradigm. What are the issues with how we treat mental illness? And what does an empowered, spiritually-inclusive model look like? Links to Steven’s work: Website: https://stevenchayes.com Medium: https://medium.com/@stevenchayes Acceptance and Commitment Therapy: https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/therapy-types/acceptance-and-commitment-therapy Resources and References: A Liberated Mind – Steven C. Hayes. Get Out Of Your Mind and Into Your Life — Steven C. Hayes. The Myth of Mental Illness & Ideology and Insanity — Thomas Szasz. A Beautiful Mind (2001). The Happiness Trap — Russ Harris.

Time for something a little different! This is a reading of my latest MindThatEgo article, The Lighthouse: A Synchronistic Symbol of Intimacy and Isolation. I share a process of working with my unconscious mind to decipher the meaning of this inner voyage at various milestones. The lighthouse is a central symbol, which guided me to understand the significance of the conflict between intimacy and isolation. The woods, and the sea, are accompanying metaphors. As you will hear, the way events unfold defies conventional understanding. In what Carl Jung defined as synchronicity, events are linked by meaning, and require a different paradigm of reality to fully comprehend. Article link: https://www.mindthatego.com/the-lighthouse-symbol

Connecting to the soul is simple and complex. It’s simple because the soul is the essence of who you are. It’s the core of your being. Nothing has to be learned, only remembered. The complexity comes from living in an age and a culture of disconnect, with barriers created by the mind, and intellectual superiority placed ahead of other forms of intelligence, such as intuition, instinct, and heartfelt wisdom. In this conversation I’m joined by the perfect guide, Natalie Zeituny. I met Natalie three years ago at the Science and Nonduality Conference in Italy. She is a mystic, cosmologist, and the author of Ensoulment, where she presents a model of reality which “explores the cosmology and psychology of reality.” I was engrossed by her book, especially the way she maps consciousness scientifically, as well as sharing her inner experience of the ensoulment process vividly. What I love most about our conversation is the grounded nature in which ensoulment is approached. Natalie talks about entering the underworld in order to confront the shadow, and integrate the soul through deep reflection. This isn’t about bypassing difficulty, or cultivating love and light. It’s about having the courage to be the hero of your journey, to trust your inner resourcefulness above all else. We talk about the relationship between difficult experiences, such as depression, anxiety, and paranoia, and how they relate to ensoulment. We discuss the signs of being aligned with the soul, how to identify your essence, and the uniqueness of your soul’s song. I’m sure by the end, the fruits of ensoulment will be clear. Connecting to the soul is the return to being, the path to living the fullest life on offer; the path truest to you.

Hayden Thorpe is a solo artist and former frontman of Wild Beasts. His two solo albums — Moondust for my Diamond (2021) and Diviner (2019) — follow five albums with the band between 2008 and 2016, for which Two Dancers was nominated for the Mercury Prize. Since discovering Wild Beasts through their album Smother in 2011, they’ve remained my favourite band, one I’ve returned to time and time again, the soundtrack struggle, triumph, and everything between. Hayden’s music continues the theme. Songs such as Diviner, Golden Ratio, The Universe is Alright Right, translate the ineffable with poetic melodies and spiritually-infused lyricism. Sharing such an in-depth exploration of Hayden’s creative process was a joy. Topics include the transcendence of writing, the sacred nature of music, the energetics of stage performance, the merging of self and the source, the mystery of how certain songs find you at the right place, right time, shaping your life direction. In tribute to Hayden’s approach to the divine and the earthly, we discuss the vulnerability of crises of confidence, risk-taking, the desire for validation, and how to honour ideas. Plus, we consider what immersion in the creative dimension teaches about the nature of reality, and the cosmic link between Newcastle United and Bristol Rovers.

According to conflict resolution expert Guy Burgess, the inability to resolve conflict is the greatest threat to humanity. Conflict is the root of interpersonal disharmony, political polarization, us vs. them mentalities, violence, and all-out war. Our future relies on a workable solution. Yet the current tools we have don’t adequately scale to the ever-growing complexity and interconnection of the world. Three decades ago Guy was introduced to systems theory by a nuclear physicist at a multidisciplinary conference he hosted on conflict resolution. Seeing conflict as a complex adaptive system moves away from the prominent worldview of mechanical thinking, aligning with the systems of nature, the ecological as opposed to the engineered. This holistic view is a radical shift. Viewing society as a complex system attempts to answer the question of how we can get along, and create a more peaceful world, despite having many differences in belief, ideology, wants, and needs. It works on principles and rules, not fixed on identifying problems and finding specific solutions. It understands conflict as ever-evolving, dynamic, and often unpredictable. Our conversation applies complex thinking to many societal issues. Guy explains the difference between a complicated and complex system, and how conflict is viewed through these perspectives. Guy explains the need for “massive-parallel peace building,” across many disciplines, using big picture thinking to bring together our collective skills and insights. He also explains the underlying psychology behind conflict, on an individual and societal level, and how vulnerabilities are exploited. We discuss the pandemic through this lens. Why do the media present oversimplified models of the world? Why do governments use “divide and conquer” techniques to stoke polarization, such as vaccinated vs unvaccinated? What are the hazards of not having access to free-flowing information, and the damage of censorship? We turn our attention to the future of society. That includes the necessity of moving towards a “power-with” and not “power-over” approach, finding the sweet spot of solidarity and innovators who find novel solutions, and why complex thinking moves us into the quantum era. By the end, we consider how this all factors into a wider collective awakening, and the evolution of consciousness across humanity as a whole. This is a useful and practical approach to what can often seem like an intangible, and impossible goal. Guy acknowledges that there has been no “golden age” of harmony or resolution, and the work on this will continue for decades to come. But, for someone who has dedicated his life to moving beyond the intractable, Guy makes global peace feel more attainable. God knows, we need it. Resources: Website: Beyond Intractability The Best of Both Worldviews: Can Systems Theory Unite Spirituality and Science? Title music: Monday Morning Wake Up Call by David Birch