IndoctriNation

Elli was raised a third-generation Christian Scientist in Southern California. She left the religion in her late teens and discovered it was a cult in her mid-twenties. Her journey of over 10 years has been undoing the restrictive thinking and false beliefs imprinted since birth and finding out who she is underneath it all. In this first part of a three-episode series, Elli shares with Rachel her story of growing up in a restrictive household and church where she was denied access to any form of medicine or healthcare. Throughout the conversation, Elli provides insight into her uniquely sheltered perspective and explains the confusing and disorienting feelings she experienced while integrating into broader society for the first time. Before You Go: Rachel addresses Elli's feelings of confusion surrounding a lack of basic medical language and how it can prevent the solution-oriented thinking that would usually lead to treatment from a doctor. Thanks to our newest Patrons: Caroline Hinton, Dolan, Felicia Baucom, and Heather Silsbee!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show! Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Rachel and Erin Alder are a married couple from Seattle. Shortly after they met they became entangled in a situation within AA where their vulnerabilities were being used to control their behavior by a controlling sponsor. In Rachel's case, the vulnerability that was exploited was undiagnosed mental illness, specifically Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. While Erin’s biggest vulnerability became whether the marriage was dependent on continued work with this manipulative group leader. Eventually, Rachel and Erin were able to break free from the exploitation of the invasive sponsor and her high-demand group. They share with Rachel the details of how they were pulled into this controlling situation and describe the fears that kept them there for 7 years. In our third and final episode with Rachel and Erin, they conclude the story of their experiences in a high control AA group. They discuss the difficulties of leaving the group and the after-effects they felt once they finally left it behind. Before You Go: Rachel emphasizes the importance of taking breaks from high control groups. She explains how it gives your mind a chance to reset and gain a new perspective. Thanks to our newest Patrons: Elizabeth Kirkpatrick, Sherry Agee, Gina Claborn and, Connie Scum!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can always help the show for free by leaving us a review on Apple/iTunes, it really helps the visibility of the show! To read more of Rachel's thoughts on AA check out this article in Filter Magazine: https://filtermag.org/deprogramming-from-aa-when-a-fellowship-resembles-a-cult/ Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Rachel and Erin Alder are a married couple from Seattle. Shortly after they met they became entangled in a situation within AA where their vulnerabilities were being used to control their behavior by a manipulative sponsor. In Rachel's case, the vulnerability that was exploited Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder while Erin’s biggest vulnerability became whether the marriage was dependent on continued work with this manipulative group leader. Eventually, Rachel and Erin were able to break free from the exploitation of the invasive sponsor and her high-demand group after 7 years of control. In the second part of this 3-part story, the Alders detail some of the most heart-wrenching experiences they endured during their time in the group and explain the painful lessons they learned while trying to overcome tragedy. Before You Go: Rachel examines the narcissistic tendencies of group leaders who make everything about them. She explains how this manipulative tactic can be used as a means to control the narrative of others. To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Rachel and Erin Alder are a married couple from Seattle. Shortly after they met they became entangled in a situation within AA where their vulnerabilities were being used to control their behavior by a controlling sponsor. In Rachel's case, the vulnerability that was exploited was undiagnosed mental illness, specifically Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. While Erin’s biggest vulnerability became whether the marriage was dependent on continued work with this manipulative group leader. Eventually, Rachel and Erin were able to break free from the exploitation of the invasive sponsor and her high-demand group. They share with Rachel the details of how they were pulled into this controlling situation and describe the fears that kept them there for 7 years. Throughout this first part of a 3 part story, Rachel offers insights into the manipulative tactics used by this sponsor that are so common amongst high control groups. Before You Go: Rachel explains how manipulators can use a sort of unwanted reciprocity, with claims of personal sacrifice for your benefit. She breaks down how they often disguise their intentions of guilting you into compliance as an innocuous social construct of genuine reciprocity. Thanks to our newest Patron Angelica Ceniceros!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Robbie Balonick was raised in a non-religious, household, in middle America in the 1950s and 60s. She was a lifelong seeker who was looking for Truth with a capital "T" and passed quickly through psychedelics and the Hippy movement as mind-opening doors. After the assassination of the Kennedys and Martin Luther King, she became totally disillusioned with the suburban, capitalistic dreams that her parents would have her follow. So, she packed up a large backpack and began to travel, for 10 years looking for knowledge about God as did so many other middle-class dropouts of the era. First landing in Europe, then Asia and the Middle East, and eventually the jungles of the Yucatan Peninsula. All of this seeking ended up making Robbie the perfect candidate to be assimilated into a cult. Eventually, that seeking led Robbie to a lecture by John-Roger (formerly Roger Delano Hinkins) where she had a transcendent experience that pulled her into The Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness (or MSIA) an abusive cultic group was founded in California in 1968 by John-Roger. She eventually left the group after hearing about sexual abuse allegations against the leader by two of his most devoted followers. Robbie shares her journey with the group explaining to Rachel what drew her to the leader and how she eventually left. Before You Go: Rachel speaks about the spiritual aftermath of leaving a cultic group. She explains the psychological difficulties inherent when lifting the veil of deception that victims have lived with for so long. To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

In a special crossover episode, this week we are airing Rachel's interview on Nobody Listens to Paula Poundston‪e‬. Paula, along with her co-host Adam Felber, ask Rachel about how to define a cult, the rise of cultic tactics in politics, and the intricacies of intervention, while Paula and Adam interject with their comedic takes. We hope you enjoy this lighter, yet still insightful, conversation about a serious topic. Before You Go: Rachel expands on the idea of interventions and deprogramming and addresses the misconceptions many people have about them. She also shares the dramatic story of a successful intervention in which she was involved. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Mo, Nancy H, and Mike Ehrenkranz! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Follow these links to hear Rachel's lectures for the International Cultic Studies Association: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbTm0DTi5Ck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itzv2DAXPow Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This week's guest Dimitri is the son of our previous guest Ariela Sarai. He was introduced to the cultic environment of Avatar courses by his mother at just 8 years old. He grew up heavily involved in the teachings of the group, eventually becoming a teacher of the courses himself at only 12 years old. After leaving college to help his mother through a difficult time, he got his real estate license, became a top salesman, and is now pursuing his passion as a freelance artist. In this conversation, Daniel shares his unique perspective on growing up with Avatar courses and explains how it has impacted his upbringing. Rachel points out the similarities found between Avatar and Scientology, including the group's intolerance of being questioned and the accusations that followers experience when speaking out. Before You Go; Rachel dives deeper into how controlling groups often assign a negative intention to an action of their followers that has no real correlation. She explains how the questioning of one's motivations can lead to self-doubt and allow manipulators to affect your inner narrative. We'd like to give a huge thank you to Julie Tamler for their generous donation through Patreon! Thanks so much for helping us keep going! We appreciate all of our amazing patrons! To help support the show, monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link! http://www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

Micro-Compromises of Integrity w/Ariela Sarai After graduating from Columbia University, Ariela spent almost two years in India, first volunteering for Mother Teresa then studying Tibetan Buddhism. When she returned she got an MSW from the University of Pennsylvania. She worked as a therapist in prisons, hospitals, foster homes, and hospices. Then she established a Private Practice where she supported people who were focused on personal growth. In the year 2000, she was introduced to an international self-development course called Avatar. She had recently gotten divorced and was struggling with emotions and anxiety. She eventually decided to teach the course and also brought in many new students. She moved up the ranks. Gradually she began to get exhausted and depleted emotionally and financially. She stopped prioritizing family and friends. She was devoted to Avatar for 21 years. When Covid hit, courses stopped for a little while. She got to feel what it was like to be rested, to be home, to have more time with her boyfriend. She had a break from the treatment she had been getting. She thought things might be improving so she was part of the team that transferred the courses Online. But then she started to experience the same way of being talked to and pressured and felt controlled again. Only this time she could feel the impact it had on her. In November she finally realized that she was actually involved in a cultic environment. She had sacrificed everything for this group. As soon as she really got this, she had one consultation with a therapist, made an exit plan, and less than 24 hours later she left. In Part 2 of Ariela's conversation with Rachel, she describes her inner dialogue as she began to realize the manipulative and controlling tactics Avatar used to keep her devoted for over 20 years. Ariela walks us through her journey of leaving the group, how she summoned the courage to take back control of her life and what she has done to start her healing process. Before You Go: Rachel explains how high control groups can often stay under the radar of the public for long periods of time and the methods they employ to achieve secrecy through intimidation of their members and former members. Thanks to our newest Patrons: Lauren Fox, Iselle Flores, Olli-Pekka Mahrberg, Alan Coogan, and Jeanette Ojala!! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

After graduating from Columbia University, Ariela spent almost two years in India, first volunteering for Mother Teresa then studying Tibetan Buddhism. When she returned she got an MSW from the University of Pennsylvania. She worked as a therapist in prisons, hospitals, foster homes, and hospices. Then she established a Private Practice where she supported people who were focused on personal growth. In the year 2000, she was introduced to an international self-development course called Avatar. She had recently gotten divorced and was struggling with emotions and anxiety. She eventually decided to teach the course and also brought in many new students. She moved up the ranks. Gradually she began to get exhausted and depleted emotionally and financially. She stopped prioritizing family and friends. She was devoted to Avatar for 21 years. When Covid hit, courses stopped for a little while. She got to feel what it was like to be rested, to be home, to have more time with her boyfriend. She had a break from the treatment she had been getting. She thought things might be improving so she was part of the team that transferred the courses Online. But then she started to experience the same way of being talked to and pressured and felt controlled again. Only this time she could feel the impact it had on her. In November she finally realized that she was actually involved in a cultic environment. She had sacrificed everything for this group. As soon as she really got this, she had one consultation with a therapist, made an exit plan, and less than 24 hours later she left. In Part 1 of Ariela's conversation with Rachel, she explains how she first got involved in Avatar, why she thinks it consumed her life for so long, and she shares her feelings of regret about putting the group before everything else in her life, even her family. Rachel explains some of the methods high control groups use to keep people deeply devoted for long periods of time. Before You Go: Rachel examines why fulfilling the simple human need of intently listening to someone can be weaponized by high control groups in order to foster a false sense of trust, only to manipulate the victim into a deep and unwavering devotion. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Sophie Sartain! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

When today's guest Jonathan was 15, he felt lost, alone, and unable to voice the feelings and thoughts that were troubling him. The domestic roles he was fulfilling as a young man and full-time student, including caring for his ill mother while navigating his parent's divorce, eventually led to him seeking help from a therapist. This therapist gained Jonathan's trust by appearing to understand and relate to him. Jonathan did not have the experience to know that the healthy boundaries of a therapeutic relationship were never actually there. From the beginning, this therapist used Jonathan's vulnerabilities to manipulate his emotions, and to control his relationships with his family and friends in order to isolate him and then insert himself and his wife into those roles. After 11 years of being manipulated, even being made to feel responsible for his therapist's life and personal needs, Jonathan was able to find a way out. In this second part of Rachel's conversation with Jonathan, he continues his emotional and powerful story of being trapped in a long-term abusive relationship with a controlling therapist and his wife. Rachel and Jonathan discuss the significant red flags of this relationship including the therapists' lack of professional boundaries and expectations of secrecy. Jonathan takes us through his mindstate as he finally reaches his breaking point and escapes the torturous relationship after more than a decade. Before You Go: Rachel explains why manipulators will often do everything possible to keep their victims' doubt at bay. She explains the importance of doubt as a safety net that can be key to maintaining healthy critical thinking skills that can illuminate the path to freedom from their control. Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Sarah! To help support the show and sign up for cool Indoctrination stickers and tote bags please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy