Unlearn

Testing Business Ideas with David J. Bland David Bland’s work includes the product death cycle, a classic anti-pattern innovators and entrepreneurs fall into when trying to create a new product. He highlights that building what customers say they want is not the way to be successful; instead, ideas need to be tested to see what they need to succeed. In this week’s show, Barry O’Reilly and David discuss his new book, Testing Business Ideas: A Field Guide for Rapid Experimentation, including what it takes to do experimentation right. Stick To Your Vision or Walk Away? “It doesn’t matter how beautiful something looks, or who you think your customer is, if they don’t want it they don’t want it.” His early experience in a financial services startup taught David this valuable lesson. He says that at some point you have to decide whether to stick to your vision and pivot to another segment, or walk away. Having the market reject your hard work is humbling because you personally attach yourself to what you’re creating. However, David comments that the way to move forward is to listen to the data. Being Open To Being Wrong Your vision may need to be tweaked in some way for you to be successful, David says. As such, leaders should adopt the mindset that they’re testing their vision against reality and that they might be wrong. Unlearning Ideas About Experimentation Barry asks David to comment on what organizations need to unlearn about experimentation. David responds that much of it boils down to leadership mindset. People usually become leaders because they are experts in some area and have proven that they can produce results. It’s an ego-driven path, David says. If you’re not careful, you can become a CEO who still thinks that it’s all about you. Building a culture of experimentation means however, that you have to create more leaders around you. Barry adds that so many leaders are used to managing to output-based measures of success. Asking them to measure outcomes seems an alien concept, so they are resistant to the idea. David says funding is another area organizations need to unlearn. He contrasts the traditional method of annual budgeting for projects with the concept of internal VC funding, and explains why the latter is better suited to experimentation. Big Leadership Questions Technology is changing the world so quickly that organizations need to be able to adapt. The static business model that can run for years without change cannot survive in today’s market and economy, David comments. A very important question leaders need to consider is, What would happen if a startup is created today that would make us obsolete? Barry adds that another question leaders should ask is, What would stop us investing in this idea? It’s not enough to optimize only for the happy path; pairing it with metrics that tell you when to kill an initiative creates a clearer picture of what success would look like. Start Manually David shares the story of an SMS dating app to illustrate that you can use manual processes to test the validity of a business idea without building sophisticated features. You can use what you learn to find a strategy or automate a process to scale. It also de-risks the process, Barry comments, as you find out if anyone cares about your product, if anyone would use it, and if you should build it. Starting manually makes for safe experimentation since you’re only investing your time, but you learn so much. Looking Ahead David hopes to influence change in funding startups, as he believes that it should be based on evidence rather than emotion. Resources Testing Business Ideas book David Bland on Twitter

Dr. Gail Lebovic is a surgeon and entrepreneur whose work has made a great impact on the healthcare space, particularly by devising innovative surgical techniques and developing medical devices aimed at improving the lives of women with breast cancer. Host Barry O’Reilly describes her as a world leader with a passion for problem-solving and for thinking outside the box, which makes her unique in the highly structured field of surgery.  Challenging The Accepted Culture Surgical thinking is founded on achieving good outcomes and avoiding risk. Very few surgeons would think about trying a different procedure if the accepted way is working. Gail, however, knew that there had to be a better way to do breast cancer surgery. She felt that when a surgeon performs a mastectomy, he or she should also be doing a reconstruction. This was a radical idea at the time. Eventually, she sought out Dr. Donald Laub as her mentor and together they explored how to make this idea happen. Barry comments that everything pushes against you when you’re trying to innovate, especially in highly regulated, high consequence scenarios.  Breakthrough Even with a sought-after practice, and data to support her methods, Dr. Gail still found herself marginalized by the mainstream surgical community. Nevertheless, she focused on helping her patients and became involved in medical technology. She realized that she could impact many more people by creating technology and teaching others how to use it. Her MammoPad invention has now been used by over 100 million women. Another step she took was teaching surgeons her techniques. One surgeon can impact more than 250 cancer patients a year, she points out. To date, she has trained over 1000 surgeons around the world, escalating the opportunity to impact many more women than one on one. She created a post-graduate course that has hosted more than 18 conferences thanks in part to a grant from the Mary Kay foundation. Recognizing Opportunity  Barry asks Gail to describe how she recognizes an opportunity, including the steps she takes to determine if it’s worth pursuing. He quips that most Silicon Valley entrepreneurs start with a solution that’s looking for a problem! For Gail, it’s just the opposite – it begins by recognizing a problem or a basic need - for example, how to help more women get life-saving mammograms. Then you have to diligently research many different aspects of the problem as well as the potential solutions you may have. Then you can start prototyping. Ultimately, choosing the right prototype is a complex problem, but in the end you have to rely on gut instinct, she says. “That’s the key moment that ultimately will drive adoption.” Critical Thinking Skills People tend to optimize for the happy path, and very rarely do they think about unintended consequences, Barry comments. He finds that critical thinking is often a missing component in product development. Gail says that successful product development takes a cohesive team. You can’t get married to an idea just because you like it. The objective is to keep critiquing your designs and anticipating the risks until you have a prototype that you feel confident in. Barry adds that leaders should role-model accepting criticism of their own ideas; it's one of the most powerful things you can do, he says. The Value of Empathy Automating manual processes is great, but technology cannot replace the human touch. The medical process is both an art and a skill, Gail points out. Empathy is what drives the identification of needs, which inspires creation of technology products that save people’s lives and provides an avenue for compassionate care along the way. Resources Dr. Gail Lebovic

Barry O’Reilly opens Season 2 of the UnLearn Podcast by commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Apollo moon landing. He welcomes special guest Dr. Ed Hoffman, NASA’s first ever Chief Knowledge Officer. Ed is a Senior Lecturer at Columbia University School or Professional Studies, and serves as Strategic Advisor for the Project Management Institutue. In these roles he works with industry leaders to develop capabilities in leadership, projects, teaming, and future of work dynamics. He is a sought-after consultant and speaker, and the co-author of Shared Voyage: Learning and Unlearning from Remarkable Projects.  Knowing Why Knowing what you’re doing is important, but it’s also critical to know why. Ed has always believed that NASA’s work contributes to the good of humankind. His thoughtful response to the interesting test Deputy Administrator Dr. Hans Mark put him through during his internship, proved that he knew why he was there. Barry comments that we can achieve amazing outcomes when we are connected to mission, when we know why we’re doing what we’re doing. It Starts With The People The best organizations have thoughtful, effective leaders; they build teams who are themselves leaders; and they share a common mission. Ed says that when you work with people that you respect and care about, when you have a sense of purpose, and you feel that your skills are being utilized, then work feels like a special place. Barry asks how leaders can build such high-performance teams. Ed responds that the best leaders create - and are part of! - the best teams. “It starts with the people aspect,” he says. A sense of pride, appreciation and gratitude, and commitment to the dream are components of the best teams. Only then should the management part come in, Ed says. A Lack of Communication Leads to Tragedy Ed relates how a lack of communication and collaboration at NASA led to the 2003 Columbia tragedy. When you’ve had a period of success, it’s common to feel pressure to produce faster results. Communication between teams often suffers and that’s when danger happens, Ed says. The Discovery mission six years later was successful because of the high level of communication and collaboration. The psychological safety to talk about anything is the most important ingredient in teamwork, Ed insists. Barry adds that information-sharing is crucial because making good decisions depends on having high quality information. A Process of Unlearning  Putting yourself in an uncomfortable environment, where you have to actively learn, synthesize information and present it back for feedback, is a form of iterating, and a powerful mechanism for personal and team growth, Barry says. Ed had to go through this process of unlearning when he assumed the leadership of NASA’s Program Project Management Initiative. What he had in his favor, he says, was that he knew what he didn’t know. He has learned that knowledge is profoundly social: the answers are out there in the community, so the best teams learn from each other. Ed says that he is in awe of his technical and engineering colleagues because they’re doing work that he can’t understand. Enjoying the people you work with, appreciating them and the work you do together helps the whole team grow. Be in tap with what you enjoy, Ed advises. “It’s not work when you love something,” he says. A meaningful interaction with a mentor was another powerful unlearning moment for Ed. Thanks to his mentor, his approach to finding solutions now involves setting up boundaries to know whether something is working, as well as the tools to recover. All of this has to do with an emphasis and commitment to building reflective leadership skills for learning and unlearning. Resources Dr. Ed Hoffman

In this finale episode of Season 1, Barry O’Reilly takes the time to answer questions posed by listeners. He reached out via social media and allowed his followers to ask him anything about himself, the podcast, or things they might want to learn and unlearn. Here are several of the questions posed and Barry’s answers: Q: What takes up too much of your time? (Helen, Melbourne AUS) A: Noisy notifications. Non-specific interruptions that disrupt my flow are frustrating for me. I don’t like interruptions or context switching because it limits my progress. Q: How do you measure success for the podcast? (Caroline, New York USA) A: I’m more interested in outcome-based measures of success. I know it’s going to be a great show when a guest says “I’ve never shared this story before,” or “I never thought of it like that.” Those authentic conversations, and getting feedback from listeners that they feel they’re part of them, are really powerful for me.  Q: What has been the single best day of 2019, and why? (Prithi, Bangalore IND) A: Being sent a photo of Serena Williams reading Unlearn. It was especially poignant because watching her story on TV was a major unlearning moment for me. It forced me to acknowledge that there were things I needed to adapt in myself to achieve the outcomes I wanted. Seeing her reading my book was inspiring and felt like a closed feedback loop. Q: What’s the most counterintuitive skill to unlearn? (Simon, San Francisco USA) A: Definitely the concept of coaching. We seem to think that only people who are underperforming need coaching. However, the highest performing persons have and actively seek out coaches to help them improve. Coaching has certainly been one of the best investments I’ve ever made in myself. Q: Getting comfortable with being uncomfortable is nearly impossible for me. What do you do to actively get uncomfortable? (Kirstie, Helsinki FIN) A: Actually, I feel uncomfortable if I’m not doing something uncomfortable! Trying new things, embracing counterintuitive ideas challenges your thinking and your belief systems, but it also gives you evidence that either supports your original beliefs or the new idea. I encourage you to think about one small step you can take on the edge of your comfort zone. How can you improve by even half a point? Get someone you trust to rate you in that area at the beginning, then at the end of one week. Q: It’s often said that the biggest blocker to success is fear? How do you unlearn fear? (Adrian, Johannesburg, SA) A: By thinking big but starting small. Taking small steps lets you find out what works and what doesn’t. You being to feel successful. As you continue to take those small steps, you improve and gain momentum. You start to see change happening. This is the antidote to fear: small wins create belief, show evidence and make it safe to fail. Q: What’s the best piece of advice you have been given? (Yuko, Tokyo JPN) A: That you don’t only get one shot at success, there are actually many. Entrepreneurship for me is about life and life is about growth through learning experiences. When things don’t go the way you want, the trick is to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get ready for your next shot. As my cousin Phillip would say: “if you’re still breathing you haven’t failed. Make sure you learn something for the next spin and go get inspired and do it again.” What To Expect in 2020  Barry says that in the next iteration of the Unlearn Podcast, he will be interviewing guests from a broader range of industries, not just technology. He’s excited to hear about their journey to unlearn.

Tanya Cordrey started her career as a journalist for a road haulage magazine. Today she serves on several boards and consults with many leading organizations. She has led teams and international expansions in companies such as BBC and eBay, and oversaw the transformation from print to digital media at The Guardian Media Group in her role as Chief Digital Officer. She joins host Barry O’Reilly to discuss her role in leading difficult change in often very traditional organizations. Doing Something Different Doing something different can lead to new and wonderful opportunities. Tanya’s unconventional decision to do an MBA to pair and contrast with her literary arts degree resulted in creating the opportunity for her to lead a strategy team at the BBC and later to be recruited as part of the European executive team for BabyCenter. Barry comments that many people don’t realize the challenges involved when you’re trying to do something different. Tanya says that she seeks out high-paced environments. She takes calculated risks that she believes will yield good results, like the MBA and working with technology. Both decisions gave her in-demand skills and an advantage in the market. Identifying Scalable Opportunities Convincing stakeholders to grasp new opportunities is often a difficult task. However, being clear on your vision and giving them a taste of the expected results makes the task easier. A little survival anxiety can help as well!  Tanya and her colleagues wanted to convince eBay to introduce fixed price selling—her data supported it. They were turned down initially but were later told that if other countries wanted it, they could give it a try. The international partners were all interested. At the time, Amazon was talking about launching its marketplace, which spurred the decision-makers to see fixed price selling as a defensive maneuver. The project was eventually rolled out, to phenomenal success. Within a few days of seeing the results around the world, eBay US also rolled out fixed price selling. This experience taught Tanya to think big, and use data to support her beliefs. She says that it was the first time one of her ideas led to such a huge impact on revenue. By leveraging external competitors to accelerate action, and collaborating with many different stakeholders, she was able to cause a huge transformation. Shaking Off Existing Paradigms Leading change, especially in traditional companies, involves unlearning your tried and true methods and learning what works in the current context. Having spent several years in purely digital companies that were largely data-driven, Tanya found that using charts and logical arguments derived from the data didn’t really work at The Guardian.  Tanya learned that she had to appeal to hearts as well as heads in order to persuade the media giant. Barry agrees that you need a well-constructed value hypothesis grounded in evidence and data, as well as an aspirational vision and mission to show people where you want to go. Three Phases of Change Tanya’s says The Guardian’s transformation fell into three phases: Phase 1: Changing as much as possible, as quickly as possible. Phase 2: Communication. Phase 3: Cross-functionality. Resources Tanya Cordrey on LinkedIn | Twitter

Stephen Orban found an old TI-99 in his uncle’s attic when he was eight years old. The first thing he did, he says, was take it apart to learn how it worked. Soon he was writing programs to make things move around on the screen. He knew since then that he wanted to work with computers. Throughout his career he has brought exponential technology to many traditional organizations, such as Bloomberg and Dow Jones. He is now leading a new initiative in Data Analytics at AWS.  Killed by Traditional Technology It was during his tenure at Bloomberg that Stephen became infatuated with cloud computing. He relates to Barry O’Reilly that they were experimenting to create new businesses. However, the traditional method of trying to build best-in-class technology was making the process slow and expensive. We were building too much into disaster recovery and business continuity for things that might not even be there tomorrow, he says. He recognized that cloud computing would allow them to test and scale on demand, only using the resources they needed. When he moved to Dow Jones he pushed towards using cloud technology and dev-ops methodology, which allowed them to create a more agile organization. Unlearning Leadership Massive technology changes come with people changes. Stephen soon realized that the way he led at Bloomberg would not work at Dow Jones. Barry comments that it’s almost a reflex to use the behaviors that brought us success in the past. However, those same behaviors may not yield success in a new context. Stephen says that he failed as a leader for the first six months. His advisor told him that there’s no glory in being the only one at the finish line. From that day, he says, he learned to be more empathetic and open instead of the top-down leader he previously was. He wanted his team to buy in to his vision. In order to share their wins, he increased communication with employees from quarterly to monthly town hall meetings. Team members were invited to share what they were doing and how it was aligned to the broader vision. Barry says that when you recognize that you’re not driving the outcomes you want, the first step is to acknowledge it. He commends Stephen for the subtle but impactful changes he made. Building Cross-Functional Teams When Stephen decided to change the siloed IT functions into two cross-functional teams, he expected everyone to be as excited as he was. Each team was responsible for a measurable customer outcome. This required unlearning silos and learning cross-functional team behaviors. Stephen relates that the engineers were not pleased. It was hard for them to understand this new paradigm, and Stephen comments that it was hard for him to lead through the change. Barry comments that a first step is to help people feel successful as fast as possible. If they have some quick wins, they would be more willing to embrace the new behaviors. To reinforce the paradigm shift, the IT department was renamed Dow Jones Technology. Respected persons in the company started to share positive stories about the impact of the new changes, and the metrics showed that the new methods were working. Barry agrees that metrics paired with local success stories leads to breakthroughs. Looking Forward Stephen now works at Amazon, an organization that has a very high performing, well-prescribed culture and operating model. He is excited about the pace of innovation that’s going to happen. Those who can’t move fast enough will feel the impact on their profitability, he says. Don’t be stuck in analysis paralysis, he advises; there are lots of opportunities to start and learn what works and what doesn’t for your organization. You can’t think your way to a new culture, Barry adds, you have to act your way there.

As a trained occupational psychologist, Kim Atherton has worked with leaders and organizations to understand how they create high-performance teams. She joined Ovo Energy - a green energy tech company in the UK - when it was just 50 people in a barn, and helped to scale the company to 2,500 employees. During her time at Ovo, she recognized that misalignment was a problem for companies, which inspired her to found Just3Things, a startup that helps organizations improve alignment at scale.  Alignment With The Vision In 2012 Kim was in the final interview stage at a large bank. It was a great career move on paper, but the thought of getting out of bed every day to do succession planning for a big bank just didn’t excite her. About that time she met the founder of Ovo Energy, who told her that he needed someone to help him build the world’s best company, someone who would be willing to unlearn traditional HR practices. Kim jumped at the opportunity to help scale Ovo as she believed in its vision. [Listen from 1:45] The mission and values of a company are more important than the compensation and prestige, Barry comments. A transformative purpose pulls people together: you’re willing to put up with more when you know it’s for the greater good. It keeps you going through the tough times. [Listen from 3:45] Aligning Values With Behavior Human beings pick up on behavioral cues almost unconsciously. Creating a company culture that aligns with your vision often means unlearning traditional practices, and being intentional about using processes that result in desired behaviors. Ovo knew their success depended on being nimble and agile, so they eschewed traditional competency-based interview practices in favor of interviewing based on learning agility. Kim says that you can always upskill an employee if they don’t have a certain programming ability, but you can’t train learning agility - you either have it or you don’t. [Listen from 6:50] In the fast-paced world of a startup company, full transparency and good communication are vital. You want to create an environment of psychological safety to empower your team to experiment and learn. Reiterate the vision often and embed activities around values to remind your team that we’re all part of a bigger purpose, Kim advises. [Listen from 12:15] Learning and Unlearning Employee Incentives Barry finds that the highest performing companies are those who experiment and figure out the right practices for their context. Kim agrees that experimentation and an efficient feedback loop enabled Ovo to learn what works best for them. For example, their experiment with removing the holiday policy taught them that, trendy though it was, it wasn’t ideal for them. We need guardrails, they learned, otherwise it’s really hard to do our jobs. At Just3Things, Kim finds that they’re unlearning all the time. Feedback from customers often challenges their assumptions and they have to rethink some aspect of the product. [Listen from 19:55]   A Golden Thread Just3Things was inspired by the need for a goal-setting tool for cross-functional teams. Kim describes it as a simple and transparent tool where teams could see how the outcomes they are working on align with company strategy, then link their day to day tasks to the outcomes, forming a golden thread through the entire process. It started as a manual process at Ovo, but was developed into a digital tool when the concept proved useful in recouping lost productivity time. Kim describes how she discovered the need in the market for her product, and how she founded Just3Things to answer that market need. Barry comments that when you understand how your effort is aligning to positive customer outcomes, its an unending tap of motivation and experimentation. [Listen from 30:00] Resources Just3Things.com

Barry O’Reilly is pleased to welcome Martin Eriksson to the Unlearn Podcast. Martin is the co-founder of ProductTank and the Mind the Product conferences that have scaled and sustained themselves around the world.  Learning From One Another When he started ProductTank in the back of a London pub, Martin never imagined that his small meetup of 25 product managers would be the genesis of a community over 150,000 strong from 180 cities, or that they would be hosting 5 conferences around the world. Their goal was simply to learn from one another so they could be better at their jobs. That initial meetup took on a life of its own because many others had the same need. All of their growth has been inbound, Martin relates: people come to them for help in setting up local ProductTank chapters. Martin embraced those opportunities, seeing that the more the community expanded, the more people they could meet and learn from. Recognizing Opportunities and Gaining Momentum When you recognize that you’ve built something of value that your customers love and want more of, naturally, you want to grow. Martin’s approach was to think about the next step and move in that direction. ProductTank was continuing to expand to more cities and countries, so they decided to launch a conference to get big names from the US to share their expertise. Barry remarks that the power of momentum is often underrated. As you continue to do reps, you build momentum and eventually a movement. In the case of ProductTank, they were learning valuable lessons as they continued to meet and grow, such as how to work together and get the best out of one another. Soon Martin recognized the global potential of their fledgling company. Making A Great Experience for Everyone A successful conference prioritizes great experiences for everyone. The needs of attendees, speakers and vendors have to be catered for, and ample time must be given for people to learn and network. Barry asks how Martin ensures that these great experiences are part of every conference, especially as the company scales. It’s really all about people, Martin responds. They closely screen people who want to organize local ProductTank chapters or conferences to make sure that they share the same purpose. This is what has driven the strength of this community, he says. If you have the right people you can trust them to build on that experience. Mission and Shared Values One of the hallmarks of great business is that your mission statement centers around your customer as opposed to your business. Mind the Product encapsulates this in its mission statement: “Our mission is to make other people more successful by coming together to further our craft.”  Barry notes that these principles should be codified as you grow to not only attract the right people, but so that they behave in a way that protects the community and the essence of what you're trying to create. Some of the team values that guide Martin’s company are: We are an empowered and autonomous team; We should be excellent to each other; If we’re not winning, we’re learning; Hard work should be rewarding. Unlearning and Next Steps Two important lessons Martin would unlearn if he had the chance to start over would be to think bigger and embrace the opportunity sooner and to understand his brand and the market better. Building connections among regional and international communities is a powerful part of their mission going forward. There is a wealth of talent all over the world and we can learn so much from each other, Martin says. He sees it as his personal mission to reach out into his network and lift up stories and different ideas and ways of working. That sense of curiosity and willingness to learn empowers and motivates him. Resources MartinEriksson.com  mindtheproduct.com

This week’s guest is Thaniya Keereepart, Head of Product, International at Patreon. Thaniya joined Patreon after working with Major League Baseball (MLB) and TED, moving into the digital space. Raising Your Hand Some people gravitate towards structure, but people like Thaniya thrive on unstructured paths. She says, “The through-line of all of my turning points has been that I have a habit of raising my hand to volunteer to do things I don't really know how to do.” She credits her bravery to learning through doing: she understands how to iterate so she puts guardrails in place to learn what works and be flexible and adaptive when unintended consequences occur. She relates how her Game Day program crashed in the opening MLB game, with four million users online. That scary moment taught her how to handle live events. Something admirable about that environment, however, is that when anything broke, everyone came together to fix it. Barry notes that high-performance cultures focus on solving the problem and improving the system, rather than blaming an individual. This allows everyone to feel comfortable and give their best. Building an Inclusive Team When you’re building products for the masses, you want your team to reflect the diversity of your consumers. The best performing teams are usually the most diverse. Both Barry and Thaniya had to unlearn a great deal when they started working in diverse environments. Thaniya was used to working largely with males in college and at MLB, so there was a culture shock when she started at TED, but it opened her eyes to what it’s like to work in an environment with people of various backgrounds, cultures and genders. Barry says that he never saw the problem of a lack of diversity and inclusion until he started to work in San Francisco. He was in a bubble of sorts at Thought Works, his previous workplace since it was the norm to have a diverse workforce. He felt a call to action to share the values he learned at Thought Works in his new, male-dominated workplace. Sharing a Beautiful Vision of the Future It’s important to share a vision of the future. Thaniya believes in creating big change in small chunks, creating value that can be seen and felt immediately. She involves the teams that will benefit from the change in the product development phase. These teams then become champions of the new product. When you start small, Barry adds, you create evidence of the future you’re trying to build; you build trust and confidence that your big vision can come to life. It’s also important to anchor the big change with a beautiful narrative, says Thaniya. Engaging Customers Part of re-platforming includes building a change management system to set customer expectations. It’s unwise to have big changes foisted on your customers suddenly. Thaniya’s strategy at TED was to create excitement around the coming changes by inviting customers to be part of a beta program. They felt that they were helping to build TED’s new platform, which engaged them and made them champions of the coming change. Resources Thaniya Keereepart on LinkedIn Why Diverse Teams are Smarter - Harvard Business Review Diversity + Inclusion = Better Decision Making at Work

Barry O’Reilly is excited to welcome Eric Ries to the Unlearn Podcast. Eric is an entrepreneur who currently heads the Long Term Stock Exchange. He is best known, however, as the author of the international bestseller: The Lean Startup. The principles of Lean Startup were birthed from seeing many startups and Silicon Valley companies fail for lack of customer engagement, slow iteration, and long feedback cycles—experiences that inspired Eric to think about different ways to work. He shares how he discovered, and subsequently helped people unlearn many of the methods that were holding them back, and relearn counterintuitive methods to help them succeed in situations of high uncertainty. Pioneering ChangeIn his early days at IMVU, Eric found himself constantly explaining why his new methods had merit. At one point he had to decide whether to continue to advocate for his ideas or agree to work the conventional way. He chose to advocate for what he believed in. He reflects that had he not had the courage of his convictions he would never have found out who his ideas resonated with. Counterintuitive ideas cause frustration and difficulty for people. If counterintuitive thinking is key to the success of your business culture, then you need to help people rewire their brains. To have reform, and move people to the next steps, you must find the sweet spot between familiarity and novelty: you can't be too radical, or too conservative. Principles and Long-Term VisionBusiness strategy must be guided by principles in the context of a long-term vision. Barry commends Eric for the iterations he made to his business over time, which were guided by a continuous loop of customer feedback and testing new features in small batches. Eric shares the many pivots he had to make noting that you can always change strategy, but keep the vision. Opening Minds Through EmpathyEric says that he has spent years trying to understand what would it take to change public companies from being short-term focused on multi-stakeholder long-term focused organizations. He would often face vehement opposition from officials when he promoted his ideas. He notes that when people vehemently oppose an idea, method or technique but their reasons are poor, it’s usually a signal that they’re reacting emotionally, trying to protect the status quo. Barry adds this is a behavior he also sees a lot when people don’t deeply understand why they’re doing what they are doing, missing underlying principles instead of sticking to the only practice they know. Eric is sympathetic because he understands: they’re trying to do a difficult, often thankless job, using the tools and techniques they’ve refined over years. He represents a threat to their comfort zone. He tries to understand what they care about so that his plans and ideas are compatible with their values. They appreciate his respectful approach and work with him to find a comfortable compromise. Empathy, he finds, is the path to greater effectiveness. Barry agrees that empathy is key. It leads to mutual understanding. If you are willing to listen to people and they feel that they're being heard, the quality of information that you get just skyrockets. When you have high-quality information and a good decision-making process, you have a better chance of getting the results you want. Changing the WorldOur grandparents built the institutions that were needed in their world, with the institutional infrastructure that their time demanded. Our world today is very different, and those institutions - hotels, hospitals, unions, schools and universities - are all collapsing at the same time. Eric says that we need to establish the institutional infrastructure that our time demands. If we fail in our responsibility to confront these problems on our society’s behalf, we will soon be replaced. ResourcesEric Ries