

This Machine Kills
This Machine Kills
A podcast about technology and political economy /// Agitprop against innovation and capital /// Hosted by Jathan Sadowski and Edward Ongweso Jr., Produced by Jereme Brown /// Hello friends and enemies
Listen anywhere that fine podcasts are distributed. Subscribe at patreon.com/thismachinekills to get premium episodes every week.
Listen anywhere that fine podcasts are distributed. Subscribe at patreon.com/thismachinekills to get premium episodes every week.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 17, 2021 • 11min
61. Potemkin AI (patreon teaser)
Cold open: Ghost in the Shell
There is a long list of services that purport to be powered by sophisticated software, but actually rely on humans acting like robots. We discuss a critical concept—whether we call it Potemkin AI, fauxtomation, or ghost work—for understanding how so much so-called artificial intelligence is just a spectacle, a simulation, designed to mystify the labor that really turns the crank of smart systems sold as advanced innovations. They are the humans hidden inside mechanical minds.
Some stuff we reference:
• Potemkin AI | Jathan Sadowski: https://reallifemag.com/potemkin-ai/
• The Automation Charade | Astra Taylor: https://logicmag.io/failure/the-automation-charade/
• Ghost Work: How to Stop Silicon Valley from Building a New Global Underclass | Mary L. Gray Siddharth Suri: https://ghostwork.info/
• Behind the Screen: Content Moderation in the Shadows of Social Media | Sarah T. Roberts: https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300235883/behind-screen
• Difference and Dependence among Digital Workers: The Case of Amazon Mechanical Turk | Lilly Irani: https://read.dukeupress.edu/south-atlantic-quarterly/article-abstract/114/1/225/3763/Difference-and-Dependence-among-Digital-Workers
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Apr 14, 2021 • 1h 22min
60. We Live in a Society (of Control) (ft. Liv Agar)
Cold open: Garden Glossary - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBMRWwjGJHQ
It’s time for theory chat! To analyse the techno-politics of smart systems, we need good theories at hand. And we’re joined by the great Liv Agar – philosopher, podcaster, streamer – to discuss the hyper-prescient work of Gilles Deleuze on societies of control and the transition away from disciplinary societies. We’re talking rhizomes, dividuals, passwords, capitalism, power, and smart technology as we break down a critical theory for understanding a society driven mad by control.
Follow, listen, read, watch Liv: https://linktr.ee/livagar
Some stuff we reference:
• Postscript on the Societies of Control | Gilles Deleuze: cidadeinseguranca.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/deleuze_control.pdf
• Control and Becoming | Gilles Deleuze, Antonio Negri: uib.no/sites/w3.uib.no/files/attachments/6._deleuze-control_and_becoming_0.pdf
• Too Smart | Jathan Sadowski: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/too-smart
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Apr 9, 2021 • 11min
59. TMK x 4ZZZ Radio Reversal (ft. Anna Carlson and Natalie Osbourne)(patreon teaser)
This episode is from a guest appearance by Jathan on 4ZZZ Radio Reversal, a community radio show in Brisbane, hosted by great friends of TMK and critical scholars: Anna Carlson and Natalie Osbourne. We had a really fun conversation talking about the ramping up of workplace surveillance, labor organising in the tech sector, the political economy of academia, and luddism as liberation. Enjoy!
Check out 4ZZZ (4zzzfm.org.au) and follow Radio Reversal (twitter.com/RadioRevers), Natalie Osborne (twitter.com/DrNatOsborne), and Anna Carlson (twitter.com/annajcarlson)
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Apr 6, 2021 • 1h 15min
58. Suez Canal /// Imperialist Infrastructure (ft. Laleh Khalili)
Okay, so the big boat is no longer blocking the Suez Canal. But that doesn’t mean we can go back to ignoring the global networks of capitalism and colonialism that make our world run. Laleh Khalili – author of the brilliant new book, Sinews of War and Trade: Shipping and Capitalism in the Arabian Peninsula – joins us for a wide-ranging discussion of her rich, historical analysis of global shipping, imperialist infrastructure, and technological fantasy.
Grab Laleh’s book: versobooks.com/books/3172-sinews-of-war-and-trade
Follow Laleh: twitter.com/LalehKhalili
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Apr 3, 2021 • 7min
57. The Arbiters of Asset Allocation (patreon teaser)
Premium – 57. The Arbiters of Asset Allocation
We pick back up on our discussion of market indices and index providers, honing in on the close relationship they have with asset managers, how they exercise private authority by setting standards for corporate governance and evaluating the worthiness of “emerging markets,” and the need to reckon with the authority these kingmakers of finance—these arbiters of asset allocation—have in the world today. Who gave them this great power? Not me! Not you! And yet, here they are, with the ability to wave a wand, change a classification, and magically, instantly, automatically make billions of dollars move from one place to another.
Article we discuss:
• Steering capital: the growing private authority of index providers in the age of passive asset management | Johannes Petry, Jan Fichtner, Eelke Heemskerk | Review of International Political Economy: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09692290.2019.1699147
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: https://www.bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Mar 31, 2021 • 1h 16min
56. The Kingmakers of Finance
This week’s episodes are part of our ongoing, irregular series where we dive into the deepest, darkest crevices of how financial and technological capital operates today. In a sequel to our episodes on index funds and asset managers — the big three of BlackRock, Vanguard, and State Street — we examine the other side of this unholy marriage: market indices and index providers. If the index funds are like the treasury of global capitalism, holding and managing trillions in assets, then the index providers are like the executive branch: making decisions that directly and automatically cause mass movements in capital investment. We build on a fantastic new paper (ref below) investigating the private authority of this largely ignored industry to “steer capital.” As political economists, we are only just now starting to recognize, let alone reckon with, the power that index providers possess in contemporary financial capitalism — an industry that is weirdly coincidentally also concentrated in just just three firms: S&P Dow Jones, FTSE Russell, and MSCI.
Article we discuss:
• Steering capital: the growing private authority of index providers in the age of passive asset management | Johannes Petry, Jan Fichtner, Eelke Heemskerk | Review of International Political Economy: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09692290.2019.1699147
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
TMK shirts are now available here: https://www.bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Mar 27, 2021 • 10min
55. Journey into the Absurd (patreon teaser)
cw: we discuss school shootings and sexual assault in the second half of this episode.
Cold open: We need to talk about AI ethics (H&M): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0x0zsVlp30
Sometimes you just gotta confront the absurdity of it all head-on. We give y’all a news feed roundup as we discuss some of the most inane tech stories that crossed our desks this week. Which all hang together by the ridiculous notion that the most pressing problems in society will be solved through a commitment to engaging in endless debate and downloading the right app.
Some stuff we reference:
• Meet Linda Leapold, Head of AI Policy for H&M | https://hmgroup.com/news/meet-linda-leopold-head-of-ai-policy/
• ‘Enough is enough’: South Mississippi man creates desk to keep children safe during school shootings | https://www.fox8live.com/2021/02/15/enough-is-enough-south-mississippi-man-creates-desk-keep-children-safe-during-school-shootings/
• Cameras Watching Students, Especially in Biloxi | https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/24/nyregion/cameras-watching-students-especially-in-biloxi.html
• NSW police commissioner admits his sex consent app proposal 'could be a terrible idea' | https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/mar/18/critics-ridicule-nsw-police-commissioners-idea-for-sexual-consent-app
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! http://patreon.com/thismachinekills
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Mar 24, 2021 • 1h 14min
54. Shooting for the Stars (ft. Aaron Thorpe)
The great Aaron Thorpe — co-host of Trillbillies, host of A Time of Monsters, the poster formerly known as posadist_trapgd — joins us for an extremely fun episode as we riff about why aliens would be communists, the paranoid imagination of imperialism, the wonders of luxury surveillance, the spectacle of convenience, and the ways tech companies really do be manufacturing consent.
• Follow Aaron on twitter: twitter.com/thotteusstevens
• Listen to Trillbillies: patreon.com/trillbillyworkersparty
• Listen to A Time of Monsters: patreon.com/atompod
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! patreon.com/thismachinekills
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Mar 20, 2021 • 8min
53. Necropolitics of the Techno-Fix (patreon teaser)
We go in on the dangerous obsession that billionaires like Bill Gates have with framing the most existential risks in society, from public health to climate catastrophe, as problems of market failure that can be solved through clever engineering, technological innovation, and property rights. All of which are best administered by who? You guessed it: “hundreds of Elon Musks.” They come preaching salvation, while in reality they are practicing necropolitics—or, the power to decide who may live, who must die, and in what ways for which reasons.
Some stuff we reference:
• How Does Bill Gates Plan to Solve the Climate Crisis? | by Bill McKibben https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/15/books/review/bill-gates-how-to-avoid-a-climate-disaster.html
• The Dark Side of Bill Gates’s Climate Techno-Optimism | by Kate Aronoff https://newrepublic.com/article/161533/bill-gates-climate-vaccines
TMK shirts are now available here: https://www.bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! http://patreon.com/thismachinekills
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)

Mar 17, 2021 • 1h 26min
52. Pharma Profiteers, Vaccine Apartheid
It’s time for a TMK fact check: coronavirus vaccine edition. We give five out of five pinocchios to the claim that Big Pharma won’t profit hand over fist from the production of vaccines. Five pinocchios to the claim that countries in the Global South will receive fair and cheap access to vaccines and treatments. And an unprecedented six out of five pinocchios to the claim that inequities in healthcare are actually market failures solved by stronger intellectual property rights for pharmaceutical corporations.
Some stuff we reference:
• Fact-check: Will poor countries miss out on COVID-19 vaccinations? | Deutsches Welles https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-will-poor-countries-miss-out-on-covid-19-vaccinations/a-55886334
• Canada's COVAX program use draws criticism for unequal vaccine distribution | Yahoo Canada https://news.yahoo.com/canada-covax-unequal-vaccines-205249650.html
• Big Pharma Prepare to Profit from the Coronavirus | The Intercept https://theintercept.com/2020/03/13/big-pharma-drug-pricing-coronavirus-profits/
• Big Pharma’s Covid-19 Profiteers | Rolling Stone https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/big-pharma-covid-19-profits-1041185/
• The Remaking of Big Pharma in a Post-Pandemic World | Foreign Policy https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/04/17/big-pharma-post-pandemic-world-coronavirus-vaccine-cure-intellectual-property/
TMK shirts are now available here: https://www.bonfire.com/mech-luddite/
Subscribe to hear more analysis and commentary in our premium episodes every week! http://patreon.com/thismachinekills
Hosted by Jathan Sadowski (twitter.com/jathansadowski) and Edward Ongweso Jr. (twitter.com/bigblackjacobin). Production / Music by Jereme Brown (twitter.com/braunestahl)