
Inner Life, Talks and Thoughts
Reflections from Mark Vernon on soulful matters including spirituality and psychotherapy, science and religion, consciousness and the divine. For more on see www.markvernon.com
Latest episodes

Jul 18, 2023 • 43min
Falling in love with your therapist. On transference & countertransference
Robert Rowland Smith and Mark Vernon discuss these two dynamics of projection. Transference and countertransference have become core to psychoanalysis, though Freud and others were initially very wary of them. So what are the limits to using the feelings that fill a therapy room? How can the set-up of the room itself affect such things? How can transference and countertransference be unethically manipulated, not least when feelings of love are activated? And also, how do these experiences relate to the uncanny, even so-called paranormal types of awareness and perception?

Jul 10, 2023 • 19min
10 ways to understand AI
AI can be understood by the many, not just the few. We don’t need to respond to technologist and media hype via fear and the call for another lockdown, this time on AI development.I hope ten points are illuminating.1. The Turing test has been passed, but it never was a very good test to start with.2. The AI industry thrives on the promise of tomorrow and is often led by those confusing themselves with gods.3. Our psychology, as well as theirs, needs considering more fully, too.4. AI models reality, as much science does. So don’t confuse AI models with reality.5. Human intelligence doesn’t much involve calculation but presence, not much patterning but more participation.6. We’re adaptive. Technology is surprisingly unadaptive.7. Attention is a moral act and how we attend deeply shapes what shows up.8. A cybernetic future might be the one coming, with AI recognised as tool not master.9. Our intelligence is deeply linked to striving and longing, desiring and loving.10. Our intelligence thrives with patience and experiencing, learning from now.For more on Mark, particularly his work on spiritual intelligence, see www.markvernon.com.

Jun 15, 2023 • 34min
Narcissism. Good and Bad Therapy. A series of conversations with Robert Rowland Smith & Mark Vernon
What exactly is narcissism? Why is it so debilitating and troubling? Must everyone face narcissistic impulses and needs? In this discussion, Robert Rowland Smith and Mark Vernon explore the origins of narcissism in ancient myth and contemporary psychoanalysis. They explore the variety of pathological narcissisms, how it can be treated and whether a society increasingly online is at risk of becoming more narcissistic.For more on Robert - https://www.robertrowlandsmith.comFor more on Mark - https://www.markvernon.com

Jun 6, 2023 • 1h 18min
The Scandalous Radicality of Owen Barfield’s Thought. Landon Loftin, Max Leyf & Mark Vernon
Landon Loftin and Max Leyf, co-authors of "What Barfield Thought," delve into Owen Barfield's revolutionary ideas on imagination and consciousness. They explore Barfield's relationships with C.S. Lewis and Rudolf Steiner, highlighting the tension between their philosophies. The discussion spans topics like the divine connection between love and creation, and the transformative power of poetry in reconnecting with reality. Loftin and Leyf argue that Barfield's insights challenge modern perceptions, inviting a deeper understanding of humanity's relationship with the cosmos.

Jun 2, 2023 • 40min
End of Life Experiences. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
Terminal lucidity is the phenomenon of individuals who are dying receiving a surge of life, perhaps to say goodbye, as their death approaches. So what is the nature and meaning of such well-attested experiences? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert Sheldrake and Mark Vernon use Rupert's recent paper examining terminal lucidity in animals, to open up a discussion of phenomena from post-mortem contacts to the resurrection of Jesus.Rupert's paper can be found here - https://www.sheldrake.org/files/pdfs/papers/Experiences-of-Dying-Animals_Parallels-With-End-of-Life-Experiences-in-Humans.pdfFor Lesley Kean's book Surviving Death see - https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/246583/surviving-death-by-leslie-kean/For Dale Allison's discussion the resurrection see - https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/resurrection-of-jesus-9780567697561/

May 19, 2023 • 36min
What makes a place safe to talk? Psychotherapy and the frame. Robert Rowland Smith & Mark Vernon
In this insightful discussion, philosopher Robert Rowland Smith shares his expertise on creating a safe therapeutic environment. He and Mark Vernon delve into the vital qualities of safety, trust, and confidentiality in psychotherapy. They explore how less conscious thoughts emerge in this secure space, and the paradox of a sacred frame that can also be misused. The conversation dives into the significance of therapeutic structure, the power of reframing perspectives, and the delicate balance between challenge and safety for personal growth.

May 14, 2023 • 22min
How Jesus can save us from AI
The anxiety about AI has reached hysterical proportions. Luminaries are declaring that every last human being is at risk. Which suggests a panic not about the future, whatever it may bring, but about the present, and what has already been lost.What has vanished, for some, is a living sense of what it is to be human. As William Blake knew, when machine ways dominate, human beings flip from hope to despair, from elation to desperation.The question that seems to hard to answer is just what it means to be human. Drawing on a recent book, I Judge No One by David Lloyd Dusenbury, as well as my latest, Spiritual Intelligence In Seven Steps, this talk looks to the life of Jesus for inspiration. Figures from Dostoevsky to William Blake have recognised he lived at an existential edge, in this world whilst simultaneously making present another world, not of control and moral anxiety but of gift and eternal expansion.The vision is practical and, in an era in which the sense of being human is clearly at risk, fundamental and pressing.For more on I Judge No One by David Lloyd Dusenbury - https://www.hurstpublishers.com/book/i-judge-no-one/For more on Spiritual Intelligence In Seven Steps - https://www.markvernon.com/books/spiritual-intelligence-in-seven-steps

May 11, 2023 • 5min
Monarchy, diversity & William Blake. An Idler Drinks thought
William Blake was against the monarchy. But might his Georgian loathing of the homogenising, conforming tendency of tyrannical rule have been utterly transformed by the coronation that opens the Carolean era?My piece at The Idler, "The Marvellous Oddity of the Coronation" is here - https://www.idler.co.uk/article/the-marvellous-oddity-of-the-coronation/For more on Idler Drinks - https://www.idler.co.ukFor more on Mark Vernon - https://www.markvernon.com

6 snips
Apr 13, 2023 • 33min
Good & Bad Therapy. Or, have we reached "peak trauma"? A conversation with Robert Rowland Smith
Therapies of various kinds are routinely in the news. And there is much to be said for the ease with which people talk about mental ill-health. But psychotherapy, in particular, can also received critique. What works on the couch? How do different traditions and techniques foster change? And is all that can happen to us well viewed through the lens of trauma?Clearly, there is trauma in the world and too much of it. But there are other ways of approaching suffering. Maybe we are at a moment when they might be brought into the conversation, too?For more on the Philosophy Slam, which Mark and Robert offer, see https://www.philosophyslam.netFor more on Robert see https://www.robertrowlandsmith.comFor more on Mark see https://www.markvernon.com

Mar 28, 2023 • 43min
In Praise of Praise. A conversation with Rupert Sheldrake
Why do people offer praise and gain from it? Does God require, even demand praise? In this episode of the Sheldrake-Vernon Dialogues, Rupert and Mark discuss what can be wrongly implied by praise and what it might mean as an immensely rich practice. Mark confesses to having been put off the notion, as if adulation were demanded by a divine narcissist, which Rupert responds to by considering the etymology of praise, shared by words such as appreciation and interpretation. The discussion develops to consider how praise is a disclosing activity, arising from a spontaneous perception of wholeness, beauty and existence itself. They consider how praise is linked to attending, and the ways in which we reach out to see the world, even as the world reaches back to us, much as William Blake described when seeing "heaven in a wild flower". And they address the question of why and how God is associated with praise. Praise, it turns out, is highly praiseworthy.During the discussion the Boyle Lecture 2023 by Rowan Williams is mentioned, online here - https://youtu.be/5u9WGaWTgU8The book on Shakespeare by Valentin Gerlier is also referenced, details here - https://www.routledge.com/Shakespeare-and-the-Grace-of-Words-Language-Theology-Metaphysics/Gerlier/p/book/9781032121406For more dialogues between Rupert and Mark see - https://www.markvernon.com/talks and https://www.sheldrake.org/audios/sheldrake-vernon-dialogues