Maxwell Institute Podcast

Today on the podcast I’m talking with Dr. Mary Eyring, associate professor of English at Brigham Young University. Dr. Eyring studies early American literature, and her research has immersed her in the physical and spiritual suffering of ordinary women and men who, like the man Elder Eyring spoke of, reached their breaking point but had to go on. In our conversation, we turn to the work of theologian Sarah Bachelard, author of a short book titled Experiencing God in a Time of Crisis. We talked about how to move forward when a crisis, whether sudden or slow-motion, causes spiritual collapse, and how the pattern of the atonement can give us something to hold on to. Mary taught me a better question for a time of crisis. As natural as it is to ask “How could this happen?”, a better question might be: “How is God grieving in this situation?” Grieving as God grieves, not as our anxious and frightened human minds want to, can lead us through the valley of the shadow of death into a larger and truer life.

On this episode of the podcast, I interview Dr. Brigham Frandsen, professor of economics at Brigham Young University. Brigham happens to be my little brother, but I’ve looked up to him almost my whole life for his intelligence and his goodness. I invited Brigham on the show because I was curious about what disciple-scholarship looks like in quantitative or technical disciplines. Most of my guests this season have been scholars of the humanities--history, philosophy, literature--things like that. It’s not hard to draw connections between those fields and the faith that we share. But are the methods and findings of economics, engineering, and mathematics equally relevant to the gospel? I think Dr. Frandsen shows convincingly that they are. Brigham shared with me an economics paper looking at the effects of certain policies aimed at rehabilitating ex-offenders by making it easier to get jobs after they’ve served their time. But those policies turn out to have unintended consequences that may harm employment opportunities for certain groups with clean records. So how do we protect the innocent, while helping those who want to turn their lives around? It turns out that this is a question with profound implications for lived Christian discipleship, and with immediate application in religious settings like a Latter-day Saint ward.

Today on the podcast I’m talking with Dr. Christopher Oscarson, a scholar of environmental humanities and an associate dean of undergraduate education at BYU. Christopher, or Chip as he’s known, recently delivered an address entitled “Let Your Education Change You,” and I wanted to talk with him about another important speech he cited in his talk, President Spencer W. Kimball’s landmark address “The Second Century of Brigham Young University.” Dr. Oscarson challenged me to ask not how learning can help me get ahead, but how it can refine my character. We talk about the challenges of faith-based higher education, whether real learning can happen outside the classroom, and why President Kimball worried about “invading ideologies.” I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Life’s resistance is the topic of my guest Melissa Inouye’s new book, Sacred Struggle: Seeking Christ on the Path of Most Resistance. Dr. Inouye works in the Church History Department, where she specializes in global Christianity and the global Latter-day Saint tradition. Her new book draws on both her professional expertise and her personal experience to think about why and how and what to do when life is just … hard. The book is divided into three sections: struggles that result from human bodies and agency, the sacredness of our fellow creatures, and the imperative to build Zion. In each case, Melissa shows how sources of resistance can transform us into beings more like our Heavenly Parents--wiser, more loving, and more aware of the entire human family. At the same time, she manages never to romanticize or minimize suffering. She’s honest about anguish, but she’s tenacious in clinging to our vision of Zion. One of the things I enjoyed most about this book is Dr. Inouye’s love of the scriptures. She turns often to scripture for truth and encouragement, and she has a way of finding new meaning in familiar words. I decided to organize our conversation around a few of the most interesting scripture discussions in the book, and I think you’ll be surprised and enlightened at what she’s found.

On this episode of the Maxwell Institute podcast, I talk with Rachael Johnson, a postdoctoral fellow at the Maxwell Institute, and a brilliant young scholar of early modern intellectual history. Dr. Johnson studies Christian theologies of embodiment -- the spiritual and religious significance of Christ’s body, and of our own bodies made in his image.Elder Jeffrey R. Holland taught powerfully that “We simply must understand the revealed, restored Latter-day Saint doctrine of the soul, and the high and inextricable part the body plays in that doctrine.” Our bodies are the ever-present condition of our experience, so it’s easy to tune them out and ignore--or resent--their role in our spiritual life. But Dr. Johnson gave me a whole new understanding of how our bodies can connect and empower us in light of the teachings of the Restoration and the gospel of Christ. ReferencesCaroline Walker Bynum. "Why all the fuss about the body? A medievalist's perspective." Critical inquiry 22.1 (1995): 1-33.Jeffrey R. Holland. “Of Souls, Symbols, and Sacraments.” https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/jeffrey-r-holland/souls-symbols-sacraments/BYU Mission StatementMI Youtube and Publications Page

President Nelson recently taught, “As we seek to be disciples of Jesus Christ, our efforts to hear Him need to be ever more intentional. It takes conscious and consistent effort to fill our daily lives with His words, His teachings, His truths.” The prophet has asked us how we “Hear Him”--but have you thought about how you “See Him”? Do you bring pictures or other artistic representations of Christ into your spiritual life? For today’s episode I interview Dr. Anthony Sweat, an oil painter himself and a professor of Church history and doctrine at BYU. Dr. Sweat has thought a lot about art and faith, in his creative and his scholarly pursuits. We discussed a fascinating article he co-authored analyzing Latter-day Saints’ preference for pictures of Christ praying in Gethsemane over Christ on the cross. We talk about why this might be the case, why we should make a point to include the crucifixion in our spiritual reflection, and how to incorporate art more deliberately into our faith lives. Instead of asking, “What picture would look best above the couch?” Anthony challenged me to ask, “What am I seeking from art, and do my artistic choices lead me to Christ?” It’s not always about what looks prettiest. It can be hard to view the death of the Savior. But the experience can draw us to him. Join us, and see what you think.

Today I’m speaking with Dr. Ryan Tobler, a scholar of American religious history. Dr. Tobler worked as a postdoctoral fellow here at the Maxwell Institute for a year, and now is off to a new position as a lecturer at the University of Heidelberg. We’ll miss him, but we’re thrilled for his success. Ryan and I discussed an article he wrote about the beginnings of the practice of baptism for the dead among the early Saints. He taught me that baptism for the dead doesn’t only answer questions about the afterlife. Baptism for the dead is also for the living: it’s profoundly empowering in modern life, changing our relationship to our own inevitable death and healing our troubled relationship with our bodies. President Nelson taught that “Jesus Christ is the reason we build temples.” Dr. Tobler shows us how baptism for the dead kickstarted the modern Restoration of temple work, and how it draws us to Christ in its symbolism, its ritual, and its real spiritual power. I was really inspired by this conversation, and I hope you can feel the power of the ideas we discussed.

This episode of the podcast is very close to my heart. I’m speaking with Dr. Miranda Wilcox, my friend and colleague, about a new book just out from the Maxwell Institute, written by the late Kate Holbrook and titled Both Things Are True. Miranda and I had the privilege of shepherding the book to completion after Kate died of cancer in 2022. Miranda, who is a professor of English at BYU, co-edits the Maxwell Institute’s book series we call “Living Faith,” a series now up to seventeen titles featuring scholars who write in a personal, conversational way from their professional expertise to strengthen faith. In that capacity, Dr. Wilcox served as lead editor for Both Things Are True, the latest book in the series. Kate Holbrook, who at the time of her death was the managing historian of women’s history at the Church History Department and a longtime friend and advisor to the Institute, spent her professional life discovering and amplifying the voices of other women, and mentoring other people in how to do the same. So Miranda and I wanted to find a very special lens to approach this very special book. We settled on a luminous essay by the French philosopher and mystic Simone Weil, a writer whom Kate revered and whose rigorous spirituality inspired Kate’s own scholarly methods. We felt that Weil’s essay resonates in profound ways with Kate’s aims in Both Things Are True, and we hope that the essay will be a kind of gift to you from Kate. We also hope, of course, that this interview will inspire you to buy the book and fully absorb the wisdom and compassion of Kate Holbrook. She wanted nothing more than to share what she had found.

Life is a learning experience, they say. If so, what have you learned from life? Do you know it for sure? Absolutely sure? I’ll confess, this line of questioning leaves me feeling trapped in a mental corner. Is there a better question we should be asking?Today on the podcast I talk with Katie Paxman, associate professor of philosophy at BYU. Dr. Paxman studies the work of David Hume, and she’s thought a lot about certainty, humility, and the ambition to form true beliefs. Our conversation helped me to reframe my question in a more productive way. Rather than getting trapped in skepticism, I should ask: “what kind of person do I want to be when I encounter uncertainty?”Elder Richard G. Scott said, “I am convinced that there is no simple formula or technique that would immediately allow you to master the ability” to decide questions with absolute certainty. Instead, he goes on, “essential personal growth will come as you struggle to learn.“ Katie helped me approach that struggle with more humility, hope and faith. I hope you enjoy the conversation.

Today I’m speaking with Dr. Joseph Stuart, assistant professor of history at Brigham Young University. Dr. Stuart studies race and American religion, and we knew right away that we wanted to talk about Dr. Martin Luther King and the ongoing fight for civil rights and racial harmony in our society. Joseph had the great idea to pair one of Dr. King’s speech with a related talk by Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf. Both of these deeply Christian men challenge us to wake up to the world around us and look for our individual places in God’s unfolding work of restoration. In his 2019 speech to the NAACP, President Nelson quoted 2 Nephi 26:33, “black and white, bond and free, male and female… all are alike unto God,” and then said: “You who are gathered here in this room strive to make this heavenly truth an earthly reality. I commend you for it. And yet we all realize that, as a society and as a country, we have not yet achieved the harmony and mutual respect that would allow every man and woman and every boy and girl to become the very best version of themselves.” In this conversation, Dr. Stuart and I talk about how we as Latter-day Saints can likewise “strive to make the heavenly truth” of racial equality “an earthly reality.” He provides fascinating historical background for Martin Luther King’s ministry, and he puts it all into a gospel context. Dr. Stuart’s name and voice will be familiar to long-time listeners, because he hosted this podcast when he worked at the Institute as our public communications specialist a few years ago. It was fun to welcome him back on the other side of the microphone! I hope you enjoy the interview.