Valley of Depth

Our guest is Barry Matsumori, a space industry veteran who’s held exec roles at SpaceX, Virgin Orbit, and most recently, was CEO of BridgeComm. Barry’s now the COO of Impulse Space, which was started by SpaceX founding team member Tom Mueller.Impulse is just a year old and it has only ~40 employees, making it all the more surprising when Impulse and Relativity said they’d partner to launch the first commercial Mars mission in the next available window (late 2024). We grill Barry on the specifics of the mission, and though it feels highly ambitious, it’s safe to say that you don’t want to bet against these teams.Today's episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check them out at https://spideroak-ms.com/ and download the new NSR/SpiderOak sponsored whitepaper, titled “Space Cybersecurity – Current State and Future Needs,” at www.spacecyber.com*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Introduction2:43 -Explaining what it was like to work for Qualcomm, a semiconductor company specializing in silicon chips used in mobile phones5:20 - Barry’s unorthodox approach to higher education, starting with an undergraduate business degree and then pursuing a postgrad degree in engineering9:05 - Defining new space11:20 - The bread and butter of Impulse Space… finding ways to build infrastructure that allows space to become an enterprise13:37 - Impulse Space aims to be a “last-mile” space transportation player. What does that mean and what does it look like?17:56 - Discussion of Imulse’s development cycles and vertical integration19:35 - Where does the startup recruit from? What does its headcount look like?20:35 - Relativity and Space are working together to do what?!25:10 - What still needs to happen or fall into place to make the Mars window in 2024?31:16 - Orbital infrastructure is a prerequisite for more space commercialization (materials processing, pharma development, semiconductor manufacturing, etc.)36:20 - How using LEO as a parking could usher in a more sustainable phase of space exploration (and return trips to Earth)40:28 - Pulling in fresh talent from other industries versus recruiting from space competitors44:07 - Pools of talent density around the US… From LA to Boston, and far beyond47:26 - If all goes to plan, what will Impulse look like in 2024? What other missions will it be working on?48:41 - Close of show … Star Wars or Star Trek? Are we alone? Will Barry go to space?*SHOW NOTES*Video referenced in episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuL7iYUNg6o&feature=emb_titleImpulse's website: https://www.impulsespace.com/Barry's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/barry-matsumori-35676/Mars mission details: https://www.impulsespace.com/marsQ+A with partner Relativity: https://payloadspace.com/qa-with-tim-ellis-on-relativitys-mars-mission/*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Giuseppe is president at Red Cat Holdings ($RCAT) and founder of Skypersonic, which builds drones that can inspect and survey sites in high-risk, confined, or GPS-denied locations. Skypersonic's product enables remote operators to fly drones indoors 100% remotely and over the internet.Previously, Giuseppe was responsible for the development of projects on behalf of the European Space Agency at Thales Alenia Space, and has been involved in development of space systems used at NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA). He studied Astronautical Engineering at the University “La Sapienza di Roma” and he achieved the Master of Science in Mechanical Engineering (MSME) at Engineering Faculty of Catania.What's the space angle? Skypersonic just recently completed a 15-day set of testing its drone at Mt. Etna, an Italian volcano with Martian-esque terrain. Pilots in Houston flew Skypersonic's drones to demonstrate the feasibility of the technology in a Mars-like environment. In 2021, NASA awarded Skypersonic a five-year contract to provide drone and rover software, hardware, and services/support for the US space agency's simulated Mars mission.*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Introduction4:27 - Giuseppe got into space at a very young age. Also, Ryan asks the question we’ve all been dying to know… Star Trek or Star Wars?6:34 - The Italian space sector and working at Thales Alenia11:24 - Starting simple…how’d Giuseppe come up with the name “Skypersonic”?13:13 - The startup’s backstory and the art of the pivot14:08 - 99% of all drones use GPS to fly – Skypersonic is building for the 1% share, and high-risk, highly complex situations and GPS-denied environments.18:15 - “the pilot is important”18:46 - A walkthrough of how drones connect to remote operation centers across the world. “Hopefully I can explain in a simple way, even if it’s super complex.”26:32 - Spillovers from technology developed for space, now being used every day down here on Earth30:57 - Skypersonic’s testing of its drones and remote operations at Mount Etna (an Italian volcano with a Martian-esque environment)39:00 - Potential hiccups with using electrical propulsion systems on Mars. Also, spoiler alert, you can’t pilot helicopters on Mars from Earth41:31 - Getting acquired by Red Cat Holdings, and what it’s like being on the management team of a publicly traded deeptech company46:56 - Does Giuseppe have any advice for the space SPACs that are trying to tough it out in the public markets right now?49:51 - Just a normal light question on this Tuesday morning: “Are we alone in the universe?” Giuseppe has worked on space telescopes searching for extraterrestrial planets, so we feel he’s qualified to answer this question.52:04 - A once-in-a-generation renaissance and technological revival for space53:40 - Giuseppe’s favorite off-the-radar Italian city*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

By the end of 2023, Satellogic hopes to have 60+ satellites in orbit (and 200+ by 2025). The company made $4.2 million in 2021, the year it began selling and delivering imagery to customers.Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (https://spideroak-ms.com/), an industry leader in cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cyber whitepaper at spacecyber.com*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Intro2:05 - Satellogic’s presence all over the world, from Buenos Aires to the Netherlands4:35 - What does operating a multinational satellite company look like during a global pandemic? 6:34 - Emiliano has had the entrepreneurial bug from a young age, since he was programming computers as a 9 year old 10:42 - The inception story of Satellogic, building a more efficient way to observe Earth and remap the planet, all the way up until 202014:49 - What characteristics set Satellogic apart from other smallsat constellations? 20:22 - Sub meter resolution optical cameras and multispectral cameras being used in object identification and classification in Earth observation (EO)24:53 - What role do sales and marketing play in reaching new customers in commercial markets?31:01 - Emiliano’s list of technology and financial trends that made his business possible, from the canonical drop in launch costs to the standardization of launch interfaces and more37:03 - What are your biggest bottlenecks or constraints: resolution limits or government regulations? 43:45 - What is a DSC, or dedicated satellite constellation? How does it tie in with space-as-a-service? And why might national governments want to tap DSCs? 46:33 - Satellogic’s operations over Ukraine and their efforts to aid the country and other NATO members 50:11 - Being a non-US company listed in the United States, and the positives and negatives of the decision to go public via SPAC (special purpose acquisition company) merger55:12 - Emiliano’s hottest take, or most contrarian view, on the space industry…His answer The future of the space economy will match the economy on Planet Earth56:27 - Will Emiliano’s daughter go on to work in the space industry? 57:26 - Advice for students, especially from the Global South, who are looking to break into the space industry*SHOW NOTES*Satellogic's website: https://satellogic.com/ Emiliano's Twitter: https://twitter.com/earlkman?lang=enEmiliano's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ekargieman/?originalSubdomain=ar Payload's first Q+A with Emiliano: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-interview/Satellogic and Astraea Ukraine imagery collaboration: https://payloadspace.com/satellogic-and-astraea-create-platform-for-ukraine-imagery/Satellogic launches new satellites on SpaceX's Transporter-4 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-4/SpaceX's Transporter-5 mission: https://payloadspace.com/spacex-launches-transporter-5/*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

On today's episode of the Pathfinder podcast, we’re tackling the topic of space junk. We’re very fortunate to have Dr. Moriba Jah, one of the world’s foremost authorities on this topic, joining us this week.Moriba is an astrodynamicist, space environmentalist, and associate professor of aerospace engineering and engineering mechanics at UT Austin (obligatory 'hook em' from Ryan). Moriba is also the chief scientist and cofounder of Privateer, with Alex Fielding and Steve “Woz” Wozniak. Privateer, which stayed highly secretive until relatively recently, bills itself as “a data and intelligence platform empowering the future of space sustainability.”Today’s Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems (www.spideroak-ms.com), an industry leader in cybersecurity.In the simplest of terms, Moriba specializes in studying and predicting the motion of objects in space. It’s a hot topic at the moment, given recent uncontrolled spacecraft reentries, the growing pile of junk in LEO, and the rising importance of space domain awareness (SDA) and space traffic management (STM).*SNEAK PEEK*Moriba walks us through his framework for thinking about the orbital commons. Among other things, we discuss…The perception of risk and uncertaintyThe criticality of accurate measurementsHow, when, and where national governments are responsible and liable for debris build-up and the downstream consequencesThe geopolitical calculus of maintaining the orbital commons, and the challenges of multilateral coordinationMoriba’s efforts to “recruit empathy” for space environmentalism and reach a wide swath of the general publicA tragedy of the orbital commons…but also, reasons to be optimisticIn the back half of the episode, we focus on Privateer and work through the following questions:Where does the startup get its data and how could the wisdom of crowds come into play?What does the tech stack look like?How is Privateer thinking about its own orbital assets and hosted payloads? Where will it buy vs. build?What types of organizations will be the power users of Privateer’s platform and the Wayfinder product, if the startup succeeds in its goal?Come for Moriba’s insightful takes on the serious matters at hand; stay for the dog cameo, keto detour, and wearable technology talk.*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Intro3:09 - Moriba’s résumé … from hook ‘em to science committees to disarmament and advising the Scottish government  5:19 - Explain it like I’m five: what’s astrodynamics? … and @ 7:11, same question but for space environmentalism. Moriba coined the term so he’s a good person to ask.  8:06 - Space may be an abundant and limitless expanse, but from a resource consumption POV, especially in LEO, it is quite finite9:44 - How do you feel about the influx of attention to orbital debris and LEO congestion in recent years?11:42 - Are there parallels, theoretically speaking, between the Kessler Syndrome and planetary feedback loops that could be induced by runaway climate change? 14:36 - Risk assessment, forecasting, pattern-matching, structured vs. unstructured data, building models, and “epistemic uncertainty” … and @ 18:00, “You can’t know something better than its inherent randomness” 19:49 - Overseeing our orbital commons is the quintessential international relations problem. With regards to taking ownership and cleaning up the mess, does the buck stop with national governments? 24:59 - Is there a new co-host of Pathfinder??? 🐶🐶🐶26:08 - What does reaching our carrying capacity of LEO look like? How many objects can be up there at once? Is it possible to even answer these questions? 28:28 - The dangers of mucking up key orbits 30:52 - Privateer intro. Privateer was cofounded by the three amigos: Moriba, entrepreneur and Privateer CEO Alex Fielding, and Apple cofounder Steve “Woz” Wozniak 33:45 - You have a near-real-time, open-access feed of objects around Earth on your website. Where are you pulling this data from? As it relates to your Wayfinder product, what’s unique about Privateer’s tech stack? In what ways is this an aggregation play? Are you making this data interoperable? 39:24 - Operationalizing and productizing Moriba’s life work through Privateer’s platform 40:47 - Privateer will operate its own on-orbit assets46:42 - You’d have all the reasons in the world to be a jaded realist. Why aren’t you one? How do you stay optimistic? 50:20 - If you weren’t working in astrodynamics and aerospace, what would you be doing? And finally…favorite taco spot(s) in Austin?*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Today’s guest is Jordan Noone, the cofounder and founding CTO of Relativity Space. Noone now holds the same titles at Embedded Ventures, a self-described deeptech VC “skunkworks” that Noone runs with cofounder Jenna Bryant. Embedded Ventures has partnered with the US Space Force on R&D, and backed early-stage startups like Slingshot Aerospace and Inversion. Jordan is also the cofounder and CEO of KittyCAD, which aims to reinvent how engineers and companies create hardware products. On the Relativity front, Jordan helped scale up the company’s additive manufacturing capabilities and hone the rest of the startup’s tech stack. Today, Relativity’s Terran 1 is vertical on the pad in Florida for final tests, before the company conducts an orbital launch attempt this summer. Terran 1 is a 110-foot-tall expendable rocket, and according to Relativity, the largest 3D printed object to exist and to attempt orbital flight. Relativity’s first Terran 1 is 85% 3D printed by mass.Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, (http://www.spideroak-ms.com) an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out their space whitepaper at spacecyber.com *SNEAK PEEK*And now without further ado, here’s a glimpse into the range of discussion topics in today’s episode:Background in briefJordan’s rebellious streaks as a student and his take on medieval historyHeading up USC’s Rocket Propulsion Lab, a finishing school for rocket junkiesInterning, then working full-time, at SpaceXMeeting cofounder Tim Ellis (who was on Pathfinder #0009)Becoming the youngest person to get an FAA license to launch a rocket to spaceGetting accepted into and graduating from Y Combinator (YC W16, to be exact)The advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket partsAll the other aspects of Relativity’s tech stack that differentiate it from other rocket makersWhy Jordan left Relativity after roughly five yearsBringing the design and product ethos of Silicon Valley to the world of defenseGraduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investorMarket conditions and what Jordan’s seeing with pricing rounds, startup valuations, etc.The downstream effects of space SPACs on future industry financingConflicted cap tables and the geopolitical aspects of venture capitalLeading KittyCAD, which brings software automation to the hardware worldBuilding the Stripe of the hardware world…and much more! This was a long one, and there’s plenty of other great nuggets and stories buried in the full episode. We’ll leave it to you to discover them yourselves.*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Intro and Jordan’s background in brief02:05 - Rundown of Jordan’s résumé left of starting Relativity, from rebellious streaks as a student to his take on medieval history06:15 - How did the USC administration react to a group of students trying to do something that few other countries, let alone college students, had ever done? 09:59 - Meeting Tim Ellis, Relativity’s cofounder and current CEO (and a Pathfinder alum…Tim joined us on episode #0009)11:15 - Interning, then working full-time, at SpaceX … and how SpaceX gives its early-stage employees an impressive amount of substantive projects. 13:50 - Jordan was the first student to receive what?!  14:04 - One does not simply launch a rocket into space. We give a glimpse into the hoops that you need to jump through, from calling NORAD to filling out reams of legal paperwork, to launch a rocket into space19:10 - Starting a multi-billion dollar company at 22, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, and going through Y Combinator (Relativity was in the YC W16 batch)23:41 - Taking a deeper look into the positives and negatives of 3D printing. What are the technical advantages of 3D printing combustion chambers, engines, and other rocket parts? 28:22 - Transitioning from Relativity back to the earliest stages of company formation … “I was very hungry to go back to an earlier stage”31:50 - The genesis story of Embedded Ventures, how Jordan linked up with Embedded cofounder Jenna Bryant, and her backstory34:52 - A look at the all-mighty CFIUS (the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States)36:04 - Jordan frequently uses the term “clean capital.” What does he mean by that? 44:20 - Graduating from startup founder to the other side of the boardroom table: VC investor and first-time fund manager52:31 - Leading KittyCAD, which aims to brings software automation and manufacturing digitalization to the hardware world 55:30 - Are the founders of KittyCAD cat people?59:50 - “If you can explain it to your grandmother, a venture capitalist will understand it”1:04:04 - Hot takes (or most contrarian views) on the space industry … spoiler alert: “we’re in the worst spot for encouraging national security entrance” 1:10:05 - Jordan’s advice for students who want to break into the commercial space industry*ABOUT US*Today’s episode is Pathfinder #0010, which means we’ve made it into the double digits. So far, so good. We’ll see you soon at Pathfinder #0100.Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand that also publishes newsletters and hosts events around the US. Subscribe to our industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.comSee you back here next week!

On today’s episode of Pathfinder, we’re joined by Tim Ellis, the CEO and cofounder of Relativity Space. Tim was in his twenties when he started Relativity Space with cofounder Jordan Noone six and a half years ago.Fast forward to today. Relativity’s 3D-printed Terran 1 rocket is at the pad in Cape Canaveral and an orbital launch is “weeks away,” Tim tells us.Relativity also recently announced that it’s secured more than $1.2B+ worth of launch agreements for the forthcoming, fully reusable Terran R rocket. There are more customer contract announcements to come, Tim says. In fact, just since we recorded 12 days ago, Relativity announced a highly ambitious commercial Mars mission with Impulse Space.Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, an industry leader in space cybersecurity.*SNEAK PEEK*Tim’s non-linear path into aerospace at USC, where he was part of the first student group to launch a rocket to space and interned back-to-back-to-back at Blue OriginThen, Tim and Jordan would go on to get accepted into Y Combinator, cold-email Mark Cuban, and successfully pitch their pre-revenue, pre-product startup to other big investors.Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon.The company is also ramping up production, having expanded into a 1M square foot facility in Long Beach, CA. “Our momentum towards Terran R is significant,” Tim says.We walk through the unique parts of Relativity’s rocket-making stack, from propulsion to reusability to additive manufacturing.3D printing is “the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace,” Tim opines, and Relativity’s 3D printing efforts span a few hundred employees. Eventually, the company’s 3D printers may be useful in other industries.We ask Tim how he’s navigating market turbulence and whether Relativity A) has taken a valuation haircut, B) will need to raise again soon, or C) if it ever considered going public via SPAC.Tim shares his thoughts on the economics of launch and where the market is saturated vs. undersupplied.…and much more. Over the course of an hour, our conversation took us from writing novels and Fight Club to interplanetary travel and chilling on Mars with a Corona. We hope you’ll learn as much as we did.*CHAPTERS*00:00 - Intro1:23 - Settling Tim's age, once and for all5:03 - A non-linear path into aerospace and Tim's passion for screenwriting and cinema9:51 - Joining USC Rocket Lab11:20 - Interning at Blue Origin back-to-back-to-back12:48 - What % of Relativity's employee base previously worked at SpaceX or Blue Origin?14:02 - "Several hundred person effort" working just on 3D printing ... and @ 15:43 the perks of 3D printing, "the holy grail of automation technologies for aerospace" 17:32 -  How the hell did you get Y Combinator to accept a rocket company? 18:36 - Incorporating, cold-emailing Mark Cuban, Relativity's Y Combinator cohort, and the YC Mob 🙃21:07 - How does a pre-revenue, pre-product rocket startup sell investors and what does it point to as a sign of progress or traction?23:23 - Setting the scene for Relativity's first orbital launch attempt with the Terran 1 rocket from Cape Canaveral 28:40 - Relativity's tech stack 36:25 - Would Relativity consider selling 3D printers or making other large 3D-printed structures? 38:25 - Surveying the launch landscape...Tim shares his thoughts on where the launch market is still undersupplied43:43 - Relativity's $1.2 billion Terran R backlog is growing, with more commercial contracts to be announced 48:07 - How is Relativity navigating market turbulence and a potential R-word (recession)?52:35 - Tim's testimony to Congress & recruiting for the commercial space industry and building mission-driven teams 54:08 - The cast of characters attracted by making life multiplanetary 58:07 - What's that behind Tim? 58:44 - How does Tim use Twitter? Relativity is scaling headcount quickly. Relativity had 100 employees before Covid; it now has 850 and expects to hit 1,000 soon. 1:00:00 - Getting swole like Jeff Bezos and staying in touch with his former boss1:01:06 - Does Tim have plans to travel to the Red Planet one day himself?*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Kevin joined Planet last April to accelerate software and data product development (or help the company move “up the stack”). Before he worked in commercial space, Kevin held leadership roles at Silicon Valley mainstays that have become household names, like Twitter and Instagram. He managed products with hundreds of millions of daily active users.Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity.*SNEAK PEEK*Kevin’s journey from studying particle physics to Silicon Valley startups and quickly shipping codeTwitter’s leadership taking a chance on Kevin and how he grew with the company from 2009 to 2016Working at an autonomous Instagram and eventually cofounding Meta’s cryptocurrency projectWhat convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry?How much of Kevin’s experience was transferable from the consumer social world to product at Planet?Selling to governments vs. commercial usersThe “one-to-many” model and what Planet does differently than competitorsGoing public via SPAC and the pressures of being publicly traded“Our growth is accelerating” and “we have a proven business model”Acquiring VanderSat and launching Planetary VariablesPlanet imagery shaping the general public’s understanding of the Ukraine war“Bringing transparency is a massive positive, even if sometimes that means you capture some of the bad things that happen in the world.”How does Planet prevent abuse or misuse of its data and imagery?What does Kevin wish he could change overnight in the EO industry? *CHAPTERS*0:00 - Intro 2:00 - Rundown of Kevin’s résumé, from studying particle physics to quickly shipping code at startups and eventually running product at consumer apps that became household names 4:19 - Joining Twitter in ‘09…and growing with the company until he departed in ‘16 5:07 - Running product at Instagram, while the Facebook division was still relatively autonomous 7:07 - What convinced Kevin to jump ship to the new space industry? 9:11 - Launching what into space?! Unpacking the tech tailwinds powering the cubesat and smallsat revolutions11:51 - A simple walkthrough of what Planet’s constellation does daily13:30 -  the Silicon Valley-style startup product management playbook…What cringe “best practices,” if any, did Kevin take from consumer social to Planet? 15:07 - Where is the EO (Earth observation) industry at today, in terms of maturity and adoption? 18:01 - On selling to both governments and commercial users…and when the “flippening,” as Ryan calls it, may happen 21:26 - Expanding on Planet’s “one-to-many” model 24:20 - The trials and tribulations of being a publicly traded company27:50 - Will SPAC turbulence have a lasting impact on future funding? 30:00 - How Planet processes their data 33:00 - Case study: VanderSat acquisition and Planetary Variables35:23 - Switching gears to Ukraine, and Planet imagery’s role in shaping the world’s understanding of what’s happening on the ground 36:40 - The value of the daily Earth-imaging scans, as it relates to Ukraine and Russian aggression37:55 - The geopolitical value of unclassified commercial satellite imagery for governments, who can point to the data and say: “This happened. You don’t have to take our word for it.”41:55 - Buzzfeed researchers noticing pixelated map tiles on Baidu, digging in to Planet data, and making an ugly discovery43:45 - Mental health and content moderation46:15 - What safeguards Planet puts in place to prevent abuse or misuse of its data 48:30 - Genie in a bottle question…What’s one thing that Kevin wishes could change overnight in the EO industry? 52:30 - Will more engineers follow in Kevin’s footsteps, and move from Big Tech companies to commercial space? 1:00:06- Worlds colliding question…Will Elon end up owning Twitter?*SHOW NOTES*Kevin's Twitter handle: twitter.com/kevinweilCheck out Planet’s Snapshots newsletter: learn.planet.com/Snapshots_newsletter_Subscription.htmlVia Planet CEO Will Marshall, announcing Kevin's hiring last March: planet.com/pulse/preparing-to-scale-planet-welcomes-kevin-weil-as-president-product-and-business/ - "It’s a delight that our business increasingly looks like that of a software company, with product features driven by software advances that deliver value on top of our satellite data. As Planet accelerates as a data and analytics company, we’re bringing on top Silicon Valley software talent to add to Planet’s team. Which brings me to Kevin.Kevin is a proven leader with a track record of leading software and data product organizations through hyper-growth, and delivering market-making customer solutions — a mindset and body of experience that aligns perfectly with Planet’s high-growth business objectives.Kevin has built and scaled teams and products at the world’s fastest growing and most consequential companies. Kevin was one of Twitter’s first 50 employees and ultimately became its SVP of Product, leading its consumer, developer, and monetization products as the company went public and scaled to over $2bn in revenue."*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com*SNEAK PEEK*Tom's resume. He spent a few decades rising through the ranks and eventually served as president of Northrop Grumman’s aerospace unit before he moved into startupland.What he can talk about from his Northrop days (ie, what's been declassified) vs. what still requires a security clearanceAir and space are the proving ground for autonomy technologiesWhy did the space company spin out of Sierra Nevada Corp. last year?Sierra Space's cap table and fortifying the balance sheet before a market downtownThe space platform play...Dream Chaser is the transportation, Orbital Reef is the destination, and then there's all the space applicationsWhat's the best historical precedent or analogy for where the space industry is at in this moment in time?Tom's visions for the future, with a constellation of private space stations and thousands living and working in spaceSierra's growth from 1,000 employees at the end of 2021 to 1,800+ nowFor All MankindWhen is Tom going to space?The two parts of the bio we discuss: 1) "It is amazing to me that today we are flying at the same speed we were in 1958 when the Boeing 707 was introduced. In general aviation, the speed of the aircraft has only improved by 10% over 50 years."2) "We will enable humanity to live, work, explore, and vacation in Space!"...and more. There's plenty of mind-boggling bits baked into this conversation, from manipulating the electromagnetic spectrum to peering back in time with JWST to Tom's concept for an Asian fusion restaurant in low-Earth orbit.*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Intro 2:00 - Tom’s résumé4:15 - Most guidance systems rely heavily on air and space8:30 - Sierra Space spins out from Sierra Nevada 9:50  - A **massive** $1.4B Series A12:45 - Being a unique space and technology company15:25 - Still bringing people back from space the same way we did in the ‘60s 18:35 - Capturing Apple’s platform play 20:10 - Sierra is building a value ecosystem 22:05 - What makes the period of time we’re currently in so profound?26:00 - Is “early internet age” the right analogy for space? 28:29 - Low-cost transportation lowers barriers to LEO 32:50 - Making low earth orbit (LEO) accessible and affordable 37:15 - There’s something extraordinary about the Pale Blue Dot40:10 - Understanding the significance of Earth41:50 - ‘For All Mankind’ 43:53 - When is Tom going to space?*SHOW NOTES*Tom's LinkedIn bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomvice/*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

A Payload on Payload interview? It’s like the Spiderman pointing at another Spiderman meme. Jokes aside, Ryan invited Mo on to discuss a presentation he prepared for the Payload team at their recent off-site meeting. This week’s episode focuses on an adapted version of the deck and what’s happening within the macroeconomy.Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper at spacecyber.com.*SNEAK PEEK*Mo’s Wall Street backgroundStarting PayloadInflation, a possible recession, and the global food crisisHow it’s all connected to the space industryConsumer credit, COVID-19, and a “systemic failure in the crypto industry”Aerospace and defense (A&D) outperformance over other indicesTech valuation compressionsA record year for space investingThe next chapter of the space industryIs Starship priced in?...and much more! It's a great conversation and we're super excited for you to hear it. Thanks to Mo for coming on Pathfinder!*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Show intro1:17 - Introduction of the founder of Payload, Mo Islam2:13 - Mo’s résumé4:32 - Filling the big gap in media coverage within the space economy 10:52 - America’s current struggle with inflation 13:41 - We are facing a global food crisis16:00 - Mo’s take on a potential technical recession21:30 - Mo’s favorite topic….. Crypto! 24:40 - Aerospace & Defense (A&D) was the top traded sub sector in Q2 29:30 - The Fed is deliberately bursting the bubble on purpose, lowering asset prices on purpose…. “this is different than the global financial crisis”33:10 - 2021 was a record year for government space investment, leading to increased future budget requests 34:21 - Russia-Ukraine conflict’s effect on the race for space dominance 38:20 - “It’s important to remember how quickly the macro can flip” 43:31 - The end of the first chapter of new space is closing 49:50 - Unicorn companies typically start in the period following a downturn 51:40 - Mo’s opinion on the new space race58:37 - Mo’s hobbies.. He’s a DJ?!1:01:10 - Will we get boots on the moon in the next decade?*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com

Welcome to the fifth episode of Pathfinder, a weekly show where Payload managing editor and host Ryan Duffy sits down with the top shot-callers in space.Per Escaping Gravity’s cover description, “from inside the space agency, Garver collaborated with key players such as Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, and President Obama to usher in a more peaceful, inclusive and meaningful space age.” Lori led the NASA transition team for then-President-elect Barack Obama and would eventually go on to be the second-in-command at the US space agency. During her tenure, Lori was widely credited for ushering in a new era of competition in commercial space.Now, Lori is a Senior Fellow at Harvard Kennedy School’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs, an Executive in Residence at Bessemer Venture Partners, and a member of the Board of Directors for Hydrosat. Garver founded Earthrise Alliance, a philanthropic organization utilizing satellite data to address climate change, and cofounded the Brooke Owens Fellowship, an internship and mentorship program for collegiate women.Thanks to Lori for coming on Pathfinder, and for being our third video interview! And thanks to SpiderOak Mission Systems for their continued support.Pathfinder is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems — www.spideroak-ms.com — an industry leader in space cybersecurity. Check out the company’s space cybersecurity white paper here.*CHAPTERS*0:00 - Show intro 1:21 - Lori’s résumé5:09 - Her view of American space exploration with “a very unique window on a very important time in our history” 6:20 - Looking beyond space to how the nation grapples with complex threats,  COVID-19, and the military industrial complex 8:44 - SpaceX and the first crewed launch, “it was a relief that it was happening” 10:34 - Are we in a paradigm shift?  11:55 - Pushback within NASA and walking the line…“it’s very hard to make meaningful change in government”14:02 - Dealing with adversity within NASA and justifying the need for spaceflight programs 18:17 - Former head of NASA proposing to transfer the commercial crew budget and move it to the rocket program, “embedded a conflict between the private sector…. And SLS & Orion” 19:48 - NASA’s purposes include commercial space development23:10 - What are cup boys?!25:09 - Transferring from NASA to industry, aka the revolving door, is “a cycle that’s unhealthy for our nation’s space program” 28:05 - What are Lori’s key performance indicators (KPIs)33:20 - Lori on the difficulties of leaving NASA37:04 - Unpacking “Political science can often be more complicated than rocket science”41:30 - You don't need a technical background to get into the space industry!45:29 - Who are the space pirates and space elites now? 49:04 - Convergence between space and tech industries, and how/whether the two are competing for talent53:00 - Lori’s thoughts on diversifying the space industry and how thinking differently can drive positive change 56:16 - Are we going to have an animal metric system for measuring asteroids?59:05 - Lori’s experience training for space, singing John Denver to help her stay calm during the spinning chair1:02:40- When will Lori go to space?*SHOW NOTES*If you’d like to order a copy of Escaping Gravity, you can find one from a range of retailers at www.lorigarver.com.For a signed copy, reach out to East City Books at www.eastcitybookshop.com/pre-orders/lori-garver-escaping-gravityLori’s socials: @Lori_Garver*ABOUT US*Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand. While we have designs on becoming the biggest space content company in the galaxy, for now, we send newsletters and publish podcasts. Subscribe to our flagship industry-leading daily newsletter at payloadspace.com