Valley of Depth

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings you a conversation with Kirk Konert, a partner at AE Industrial Partners (AEI) focusing primarily on space and defense. Kirk joined AEI in 2014 just as the firm was institutionalizing and scaling its investment offering. Before AEI, Kirk worked at Sun Capital Partners, a private equity firm specializing in leveraged buyouts, and at Wells Fargo’s Industrials Group.AE Industrial Partners is a FL-based PE firm that focuses on aerospace, defense and government services. It launched its first fund in 2014 and has since grown to over $5.5B of assets under management (AUM).Kirk joins us on the show today to discuss:The history of AEI and the evolution of its strategyWhy private equity is a compelling tool in this marketWhat AEI looks for in an investmentPortfolio company synergiesFundraising predictions for the industryAnd much more…Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters •00:00 An introduction to Kirk and private equity03:22 History of AE and its evolution/strategy05:47 Kirk's career arc through joining AE09:41 AE's different investment strategies and how they interrelate13:20 Categorizing the space industry as an investment15:52 What do you look for in an investment?26:13 What drives success and failure of management teams29:56 SpiderOak Ad Break30:47 Fundraising prediction for the aerospace industry34:22 How does a founder with 12 months of runway navigate the market?35:59 Predicting when the market for IPOs will recover41:52 Geopolitical tailwinds for space companies45:16 Advice for a new investor looking to generate the most alpha47:38 What drive's AE's success?49:48 Starship prediction?• Show notes •AE Industrial Partners - https://www.aeroequity.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings on its first sibling/cofounder duo. Before founding K2, CEO Karan spent a decade at Boston Consulting Group and helped lead Text IQ, an artificial intelligence company, through to a nine-figure exit. CTO Neel spent 6 years at SpaceX developing avionics systems for the Dragon spacecraft and then went on to become a senior electrical systems engineer at electric aircraft company Kittyhawk. Mo, Neel and Karan discuss K2's origin story, optimizing for mass-scale, a post-Starship world, and much more... Today’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. Learn more at https://spideroak.com/ • Chapters • 00:00 Intro 00:30 SpiderOak Ad 01:15 K2 Space overview 05:00 The problem K2 is looking to solve 06:34 A mass constraint vs mass abundant world 10:56 Other manufacturers optimizing for mass scale? 12:48 How the cost of JWST skyrocketed because of mass constraints 18:12 How is K2 going to drop costs? 22:04 Learnings from SpaceX 23:44 Sizing the demand-side of large-scale buses 26:03 SpiderOak Ad 26:51 Defense, commercial, and scientific use-cases 30:22 Customer traction 32:15 The future of large-scale buses in LEO 34:00 The K2 advisory board & team 38:45 Predicting the success of the first Starship launch 46:50 Starship launch costs 48:30 Where does the K2 name come from? 49:37 Favorite sci-fi book or movie? 51:55 Another space startup that really excites you 53:15 When do you think we'll land on Mars? • Show notes • K2 Space - https://www.k2space.com/ Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislam Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/@payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes • About us • Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms: 1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)

Ian Cinnamon is the CEO and Co-founder of Apex Space, a startup manufacturing satellite buses in the 100-kilogram class that can support ~100 kgs of payload. It aims to sell Aries, its first product, into the commercial space market and support EO and communications missions. Apex says Aries will be available as an off-the-shelf platform that can be configured with specific subsystems to support certain customer needs.Ian previously was an Investor and Entrepreneur in Residence at Village Global. Prior to Village, Ian founded Synapse Technology, an AI security startup that exited to Palantir. Max Benassi, Apex’s other cofounder, formerly built vehicles at SpaceX and served as Astra’s director of engineeringToday’s episode is brought to you by SpiderOak Mission Systems, a US-based software company that builds space cybersecurity products and solutions for civilian, military, and commercial space operations. • A sneak peek •Ian and Mo talk about Apex’s origin story, the complexities of satellite bus manufacturing, and the size of Apex’s target market. They also discuss:The long-awaited history behind the Cinnamon family nameWhy the Apex team is best suited to tackle the satellite bus marketHow to successfully work with commercial vs. government customersThe importance of the SpaceX Transporter-10 missionThe geopolitical tailwinds supporting the space industryAnd much more…• Chapters •00:00:00 Intro + SpiderOak Ad 01:11:00 The Origin of the Cinnamons 03:31:06 Introduction to Apex 07:57:11 Difficulties of in-house bus development 09:52:02 Apex vs. Terran Orbital vs. York Space 13:19:19 Working with the government customer 18:08:16 Quantifying the satellite bus market 21:47:09 Refueling in LEO, is there a market? 25:31:11 Capital flows in launch vs bus manufacturing 28:32:04 Difficulties of bus manufacturing 30:38:01 SpiderOak Ad 31:17:03 SpaceX Transporter 10 Mission 32:21:16 The Apex Team 38:38:02 Ian’s background as an investor and operator 43:18:06 Geopolitics as a tailwind 46:23:09 Rapid Fire! (Mentors/figures, startups Ian is excited about, how to spend free time) 49:43:14 Outro• Show notes •Apex - https://www.apexspace.com/Mo's socials — https://twitter.com/itsmoislamPayload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. We publish three properties:Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com)Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)Find out more about us at http://payloadspace.com/

Last Friday, Payload moderated the “Beyond LEO” panel at the MIT Sloan New Space Age Conference in Cambridge. Joining us were: Will Hovik, engineering lead @ Honeybee Robotics; Kevin Duda, senior space systems manager @ Draper Laboratory; Forrest Meyen, cofounder and CSO of Lunar Outpost; and Blair DeWitt, the founder and CEO of Lunar Station.Today's Pathfinder is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. Find out more at https://kepler.space/• A sneak peek •This discussion couldn’t have come at a better time. On Monday, ispace said its HAKUTO-R Mission 1 lander has entered orbit around the moon. And more “ships,” i.e., landers and rovers, are set to depart for the Moon in the coming months. Our Beyond LEO discussion centered around what comes next on, near, and around the Moon: robotic explorers, habitation modules, crewed missions, energy, lunar infrastructure, and in-situ resource utilization.What follows are some takeaways from the panel.$$$: Funding models changed drastically between Apollo and Artemis, and VCs can often miscalculate risk with lunar ventures. Duda estimated that NASA is paying an average of ~$1M per kilogram of payloads delivered to the lunar surface.The new approach: Embrace failure, iterate rapidly, and buy down risk by sending multiple ships.CLPS: The Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program is an on-ramp for NASA to support commercial players without taking over the mission. In theory this support could spur more innovation and commercial growth.NASA: The agency is undergoing an organizational change, as it shifts from being a fully integrated operator to a customer.Humans and machines: It’s not either-or. Striking a balance between automation and human presence is key as we return to the Moon, with robots carrying out preliminary groundwork and humans making high-level decisions and performing experiments on the surface.Beyond LEO and lunar: Mars remains the ultimate goal of space exploration, with the Moon serving as a stepping stone to deeper space missions.While our sights were set beyond LEO, the last decade in low Earth orbit offers lessons, both good and bad, for cislunar aspirants. LEO applications, such as satcom services or environmental monitoring, have thrived due to their direct impact on everyday life. NASA and cislunar players, it follows, should go to extra lengths to make the Moon relevant to the general public and explain how lunar exploration will benefit us back on Earth. “We don't really know what the lunar towns are gonna find,” DeWitt said, “but [they’ll] find something and it's gonna participate in helping us here on Earth."• Chapters •0:00 Intro & Kepler Ad 2:11 Panel Intro 7:36 Fundraising, capital formation, and partnerships 12:44 How important that those first ships are successful? 17:18 Role of NASA as a partner 22:01 What are some pivotal technologies that are going to be used on the lunar surface? 27:30 Automation vs crew exploration32:15 What are the priorities for future Artemis crews? 35:09 Positive takeaways from LEO 37:24 Kepler Ad break 38:12 Q&A• Show notes •MIT New Space Age — http://newspaceage.org/ Honeybee — https://www.honeybeerobotics.com/ Draper — https://www.draper.com/ Lunar Outpost — https://lunaroutpost.com/ Lunar Station — https://lunarstation.space/ CLPS — https://payloadspace.com/whos-who-lunar-landers-and-rovers/ Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/ Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspace Pathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• About us •Pathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. We publish three properties:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/) 2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)Find out more about us at http://payloadspace.com/

Today, we’re bringing you a live podcast from South by Southwest that was recorded Tuesday at the SkyFi Summit. Pathfinder #0039 is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space—find out more at www.kepler.spaceBear in mind that four guests at once is a new format for us, but the convo that follows is funny, fast-moving, and definitely worth your while. On-stage and speaking alongside Ryan were:  Luke Fischer, CEO of SkyFi,Gabe Dominocielo, cofounder and president of Umbra,Katie Betts, head of BD at Albedo,Will Edwards, CEO of Firehawk AerospaceFirst, some news: This week, SkyFi said it has officially onboarded Umbra and Satellogic as imagery providers on its platform.A sneak peekWe chatted all things Earth observation: pain points, market potential, SAR, the sales process, regulation, analytics, and more. Ryan asked each exec whether the "smartest people in the room" cast aside their business idea as "impossible," and what proving them wrong looks like.  Gabe opened up for the first time about Umbra’s bootstrapped origins and harped on the end-all, be-all in EO: unit economics.Luke highlighted SkyFi’s recent momentum with both imagery providers and consumers/end users of its platform, and spoke about the primacy of UX (user experience) for his company.Will brought 3D-printed rocket fuel as a prop, showed the audience Firehawk’s recent hot-fire test; and provided a state-of-play on rocket propulsion in the US.Katie shared more color on Albedo’s backstory, along with its go-to-market plan, and delivered the quote of the day: "We will be able to detect adult pigs from space, but not baby pigs.”Chapters00:00:00—Intro and Kepler Ad    00:02:07—Live panel begins     00:03:22—Will, his prop, and Firehawk's hot fire    00:04:40—Albedo00:05:55—Umbra00:07:13—SkyFi 00:08:39—The status quo in EO00:17:30—The smartest people in the room say it's impossible...chips on shoulders and proving the haters wrong    00:28:15—A word from Kepler 00:29:05—How do you decide who to partner with?  00:39:04—Predicting future products and capabilities    00:46:53—Q from social media: Could you product have found Malaysia Airlines Flight 370?    00:48:44—Audience Q: What are you doing around supplier diversity programs?    00:50:43—When will we get satellite imagery that's high-res and granular enough to see Bill Perkins wakesurfing on Lake Travis?00:52:34—Close of show • Show notes •Firehawk hot-fire: https://twitter.com/FirehawkAero/status/1630999186282872843?s=20SkyFi partnership with Umbra: https://twitter.com/SkyfiApp/status/1635692914821955584?s=20...and Satellogic: https://www.skyfi.com/blog/skyfi-announces-integration-with-satellogic-to-expand-earth-observation#mainSkyFi: https://www.skyfi.com/Umbra: https://umbra.space/Albedo: https://albedo.com/FIrehawk: https://firehawkaerospace.com/Payload: http://payloadspace.com/

Joe Laurienti is the CEO and cofounder of Ursa Major, a company that builds and sells propulsion products for A) launch, B) hypersonics, and C) in-space transportation. Joe cut his teeth at SpaceX and Blue Origin before setting out on his own and starting Ursa Major in 2015. The Colorado company raised $85M in December 2021 and started ramping engine production last year. It has two bigger, badder beasts in the works: Ripley, Hadley’s bigger sister, is 10X more powerful. Arroway, which is further out, is a 200,000-pound thrust, liquid oxygen and methane staged combustion engine. On today’s show, Joe and Ryan talk about the startup’s primary products; its origin story; and how big of a market Ursa Major believes it’s going after.Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. • Sneak peek •Joe joins Pathfinder with a surprise, and a space scoop: Ursa Major has struck a deal to supply Vector Launch with “several” propulsion systems, he tells Pathfinder. Ursa’s Hadley engines will power the main stage of the Vector-R launch vehicle in future demonstration missions. Vector is a seven-year-old startup that's raised more than $180M to date but had to declare bankruptcy in 2020. The thought-to-be-dead rocket developer is in fact not dead, and last October, tweeted a photo of its Vector-R, with strong “rumors of my demise were greatly exaggerated” vibes. • Chapters •00:00:00 Intro and Ad00:02:02 Guest Intro00:03:30 What were you working on at SpaceX and Blue Origin?00:04:53 USC Rocket Propulsion Lab00:06:13 Origin story into entrepreneurship00:09:41 Story of the name Ursa Major00:11:36 Space SEO + skincare products00:12:12 How have your numbers changed in a year in terms of production?00:14:03 Hadley, Ripley, and Arroway00:15:00 Your engines, how they fit together, and their capabilities00:19:25 First methane fuled rocket?00:20:40 Technology stacks/methods driving your production00:23:51 Reason for existence00:30:05 Vector and Vector-R annoucnement00:32:15 Your contribution to the partnership00:33:52 How did the partnership start and where do you see it going?00:35:34 Commercial partnership with Phantom00:37:16 Other partners00:38:37 Recruitment from the big 2 and other recruiting targets00:42:24 Raising funds vs revenue generation00:44:22 Max Q: What reasons are there to be bullish on small launch?00:45:49 How many launch companies can have viable business models?00:47:25 how do you view the Aerojet Rocketdyne acquisition and what does it mean for Ursa? Is $4.7B a ceiling for a company building engines? How do you see Ursa becoming more valuable?00:49:18 Rapid fire q• Show notes •Landing page — https://www.ursamajor.com/Jobs — https://www.ursamajor.com/careersCulture — https://www.ursamajor.com/cultureArroway — https://payloadspace.com/ursa-major-unveils-arroway/April 2022 interview — https://payloadspace.com/ursa-major-scales/Twitter — https://twitter.com/ursamajortechLinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/company/ursamajortech/Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace /  https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Pathfinder archive — Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes• More info •This info is provided by Ursa Major. Find out more at ursamajor.com/engines. "Our engines are optimized to offer high performance, diverse capability, and unwavering reliability — all at a competitive price." The engines feature: Staged Combustion: High-performing engine cycle in a compact design, innovating technology to its limitReusability: Single engines capable of multi-mission use and extended duration applicationsThrust Vector Control: Precise gimbal maneuvering and controlActive throttle range: Allows for Max-Q throttling, g-limit throttling and mission-specific thrust profilesSingle-mission restarts: Allows for efficient orbit-changing burns, de-orbit burns, and Stage 1 recoveryCustom burn duration: Allows for flexibility in mission planning and total impulseHadley, Ursa Major's engine that's currently in production, has 5,000 lbf of thrust @ sea level, runs on lox and kerosene, and is designed for low Earth orbit, geostationary orbit, in-space propulsion, and hypersonics systems. Ripley, which is in development, has 50,000 lbf of thrust @ sea level, also runs on lox and kerosene, and is designed for LEO and GEO. Arroway, which is earlier in the R&D phase, has 200,000 lbf of thrust; runs on lox and methane; and is designed for medium and heavy boost launch vehicles.

In today’s episode, we welcome on Joel Spark, cofounder and chief satellite architect at Spire. The “space-to-cloud” data and analytics provider flys a proprietary constellation of 100+ nanosatellites to collect and analyze data from Earth. The data spans weather forecasting, maritime domain awareness, aviation, and more. Spire is publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange, and currently has a market cap of ~$150M. Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. A sneak peek The back half of our conversation focuses on Spire’s “Space Services” play, and the concept of space-as-a-service. Before that, though, we explore Joel’s journey into the industry and how he was “spacepilled,” and unpack the mind-blowing fact that Spire began as a KickStarter crowdfunding campaign. Here’s what else you can expect in Pathfinder #0037: The 80/20 principle of building complex hardware systemsThe primacy of vertical integration and agile developmentSpire’s Scottish roots and nanosat factory in Glasgow, ScotlandAIS, ADS-B, and identifying planes and ships at scaleWhy pulling analytics and insights from that data is often more important than the data itself: “Where is the ship going?” “Is the plane flying off course?”)Applying the tech platform analogy to Spire Space ServicesOur Max Q questions: What happens if a customer goes belly up? How big is the market, really, for hosted payloads?…there’s a whole lot more where that came from! After tuning in Pathfinder #0037, we’re confident you’ll come away with a comprehensive understanding of technical tailwinds, operational ethos, and management philosophy that drive Spire. • Chapters •00:01—Intro01:32—Sponsor02:09—Guest Intro03:43—How Joel was spacepilled…05:07—Spire's origins as a Kickstarter campaign 09:19—Reliability, uptime, and the 80/20 principle of being 12:04—How many satellites does Spire currently operate in space today?16:56—Agile development, vertical integration, operational tempo, and company culture18:55—AIS and ADS-B definitions 21:25—Can global identification of planes and ships only be done at scale from space? 23:33—Ukraine airspace closing + visuals of airspace data24:11—Are services like that Elon Jet tracker using Spire data? 26:56—Kepler Ad Break27:45—Spire as a “space to cloud” analytics provider30:25—How does Earth intelligence fit into all of this?33:01—The business model of “space as a service”37:10—Conceptualizing Spire as a tech platform40:32—What are your customers doing in space?43:48—Customers looking to launch constellations46:11—What happens if a Space Services customer goes belly up? 47:10—Do you and the team pay attention to your stock prices every day or phase it out?49:37—What’s the TAM of people, theoretically, of people trying to fly payloads on satellites? 52:42—Anything else before lightning round?54:07—Rapid fire questions + close of show • Show notes •Spire — https://spire.com/Spire Twitter — https://twitter.com/spireglobalRecent earnings — https://payloadspace.com/spire-q4-2022/Space Services — https://payloadspace.com/spire-q4-2022/ADS-B data in leadup to Russia's invasion of Ukraine — https://payloadspace.com/six-months-ukraine-war/Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

Today, the Pathfinder podcast brings on its first married cofounder duo. Pathfinder #0036 is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. Find out more at https://kepler.space/Our guests today are Seyka and Brian Mejeur, the cofounders of AdAstra, an executive and technical headhunting firm primarily for space technology startups. Seyka, AdAstra’s CEO, draws on a long resume of recruiting gigs. Brian, the firm’s COO and CTO, worked mainly as a SpaceX propulsion engineer for seven years before AdAstra. The two have worked with Varda, Ursa Major, and other leading startups to place space talent (but their full customer list is confidential).By virtue of so many former SpaceX’ers matriculating into the climate tech world, Ad Astra also helps clean technology startups with talent acquisition. For all, think not entry-level but execs and founding teams. In fact, the recruiter duo even helped place a cofounder at a seed-stage startup. • A sneak peek •In today’s episode, Ryan, Seyka, and Brian also discuss: Where the space headhunters often focus their recruiting effortsA space hiring slowdown that coincided with funding dip in Q3 and Q4, with some seasonality-induced slowness mixed inHow and why hiring is ticking back up in 2023SpaceX’s “culture of extreme ownership and rapid iteration,” as Brian put itSeyka’s concept of a space talent funnelThe draws of being a mission-driven company and why excellent storytelling helps space startups attract top-flight talentEquity literacy (or lack thereof) with engineers looking to make the jump from a big company to a startup• Chapters •02:13 Guest intro and backgrounds09:06 Types of people you work with from both sides of the table 10:43 Passive vs active search for talent 13:10 Post & Pray 14:56 What do you look for in clients that you work with? 22:35 What have you observed recently about company creation and hiring trends 25:22 How do you convince talent to join your company? 29:32 Kepler ad break 30:20 Did the slowdown in funding for space reflect in hiring? 33:34 Hiring advice for CEOs and founders 35:27 Are there enough aerospace engineers in the workforce? 37:13 Funnel for this industry 42:21 Equity and comp discussion48:34 Is there a cut off for clients that are too big? 50:44 SpaceX mafia matriculating into climatetech 52:56 Predictions 55:56 Lightning round• Show notes •AdAstra — https://adastra.us/Seyka's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/seyka Brian's LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/brian-mejeur/Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

When he was a senior Pentagon official, Charles (or Chuck) Beames and his fellow military planners would speak forebodingly about “a day without space.” The nightmare scenario would involve a wide-ranging attack, kinetic or otherwise, on space systems, which could produce cascading communications and navigation failures for the armed forces (and wreak havoc on civilian technology systems as well). While that scenario hopefully never comes to pass, space is no longer a sanctuary nor uncontested higher ground. And securing civil, commercial, and military spacecraft is the order of the day. Today's episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a company bringing the internet to space. To learn more about Kepler and how they are modernizing space communications, visit https://kepler.space/• Sneak peek •On Pathfinder #0035, Chuck joins Ryan for a conversation on reconnaissance, security, and the growing cyber threat in space. Among other things, Chuck is the executive chairman of SpiderOak, a startup focused on shoring up the digital defenses of satellites, space networks, and the ground segment. The company recently raised a $16.4M Series C to develop, test, and fly OrbitSecure 2.0. SpiderOak employs two novel security approaches—zero-trust encryption and distributed ledger technology (DLT)—to secure space assets, along with the creation, communication, and management of data. OrbitSecure wraps up the company’s design philosophy and latest defensive techniques into one offering. The product securely compartmentalizes data for complex, interconnected space infrastructure. That’s important, per SpiderOak, because “today, the horizontal integration of ground stations, spacecraft, and payloads means you’re trusting third parties with mission-critical data.” Rest of the resume: Chuck is also the executive chairman of York Space Systems, a satellite manufacturer, and cofounder/chairman of the SmallSat alliance. In a past life, Chuck held executive positions in the Pentagon and served as the president of Vulcan Aerospace, where he oversaw $1B of AUM invested in space and tech initiatives and directed the Stratolaunch project. In one of his government posts, Chuck oversaw a $90B annual acquisition budget mostly focused on remote sensing, space-based communications, and orbital launch services. Lastly, Chuck served 23 years on active duty as an Air Force space and intelligence officer, and retired as a colonel. • Chapters •02:30 Chuck joins show 03:18 SpiderOak mission + raise 07:29 Waking up to cyber threat from peer/near-peer adversaries 09:14 Thoughts on the Chinese spy balloon? 12:10 Balance of offensive vs. defensive capabilities on orbit 15:44 Cybersecurity and the gray zone 17:22 Vulnerabilities of space systems 19:37 Should space have its own critical infrastructure designation? 21:12 A day wthout space 27:15 SpiderOak using COTS 32:09 The zero trust security framework 37:10 What's unique about cybersecurity in space (vis-a-vis terrestrial applications) 45:36 Max Q 49:01 Staying focused while dealing with diverse mission needs across military, commercial, and civil space 53:24 Chuck's hobby • Show notes •Chuck's Twitter — https://twitter.com/ChuckBeamesBio — https://spideroak.com/executive-chairman/Recent TV appearance — https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6319232902112#sp=show-clipsOrbitSecure — https://spideroak.com/orbitsecure/Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL\_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodes

Let's talk about geodesic dome habitats, concert halls in microgravity, space cathedrals, and a real-life Starfleet Academy. Our guest, Ariel Ekblaw, has been thinking about these topics and actively prototyping these ideas for a long time. Ultimately, she leads a number of initiatives focused on preparing humanity to become a thriving space-faring species. Bio in brief: Ariel is director of the MIT Space Exploration Initiative (SEI), as well as the cofounder and CEO of the Aurelia Institute. Situated within the MIT Media Lab, SEI supports 40+ research projects and includes a team of 50+ students, staff, and faculty. As for the Aurelia Institute, which is Ariel’s quote-unquote “new thing”...well, it’s a nonprofit space architecture R&D lab, education & outreach center, and policy hub. Ariel tells Ryan a bit more about what the institute has cooking for 2023.Today’s episode is brought to you by Kepler Communications, a new sponsor. Kepler is bringing the internet to space, and developing the infrastructure to support out-of-this-world communications. Find out more at https://kepler.space/Chapters00:00 Pathfinder’s new music 02:13 Welcome, Ariel 04:58 Media Lab’s mission 05:59 MIT Space Exploration Initiative 08:37 Engineers, artists, and scientists working together 10:39 Parabolic, suborbital, and orbital flights 11:44 What sci-fi works does Ariel draw inspiration from? 14:18 Taking an idea from conception to launch 17:26 The Aurelia Institute’s three main pillars 20:40 TESSERAE + self-assembling space architecture 24:27 New technology that pairs nicely with TESSERAE27:30 Swarm technology 28:57 Biomimicry 31:00 How would you use Starship or another next-generation launcher? 32:24 Anthropomorphic technology for space 35:56 The AI Age + space 41:34 Democratization…“Let’s take back the [redacted] word”...and expanding accessibility in space 44:37 The gateway drug to space exploration 49:21 Advice for young listeners looking to make a dent in the universe LinksAurelia – https://www.aureliainstitute.org/Aurelia Part 2 — https://payloadspace.com/a-conversation-with-ariel-ekblaw/Ariel’s Twitter — https://twitter.com/ariel_ekblawBio — https://www.media.mit.edu/people/aekblaw/overview/TESSERAE — https://www.media.mit.edu/projects/tesserae-self-assembling-space-architecture/overview/Ryan's socials — https://twitter.com/Ryandoofy / https://www.linkedin.com/in/rfduffy/Payload’s socials — https://twitter.com/payloadspace / https://www.linkedin.com/company/payloadspacePathfinder archive — Watch: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_uY3GaNf67hP-i6TRWF2n06xMv1kdkZ6 // Listen: https://pod.payloadspace.com/episodesAbout usPathfinder is brought to you by Payload, a modern space media brand built from the ground up for a new age of space exploration and commercialization. We deliver need-to-know news and insights daily to 15,000+ commercial, civil, and military space leaders. Payload is read by decision-makers at every leading new space company, along with c-suite leaders at all of the aerospace & defense primes. We’re also read on Capitol Hill, in the Pentagon, and at space agencies around the world. Payload began as a weekly email sent to a few friends and coworkers. Today, we’re a team distributed across four time zones and two continents, publishing three media properties across multiple platforms:1) Payload, our flagship daily newsletter, sends M-F @ 9am Eastern (https://newsletter.payloadspace.com/)2) Pathfinder publishes weekly on Tuesday mornings (pod.payloadspace.com) 3) Parallax, our weekly space science briefing, hits inboxes Thursday (https://parallax.payloadspace.com/)