Capitalizing on Digital Transformations in Emerging Markets with Kevin CarterWelcome to another of the Asia Business Podcast. In this episode, we are privileged to sit down with Kevin Carter, the founder and chief investment officer at EMQQ Global. As an expert in emerging and frontier markets, Kevin brings a wealth of knowledge on the rapid evolution of these economies, particularly focusing on the technology sector.Introduction to Kevin Carter and EMQQ GlobalKevin Carter leads EMQQ Global, an investment management firm specializing in emerging markets technology. His career trajectory, starting from an interview at a leading investment bank in the 90s to creating some of the earliest China-focused ETFs, provides a fascinating backdrop to our discussion.The Journey to Emerging MarketsKevin shares his intriguing journey, from reading a seminal book "A Random Walk Down Wall Street" to his collaborations with financial visionary Burton Malkiel. His experiences underscore the pivotal moments that shaped his focus on emerging markets and the transformative power of technology within them.Broadening Focus Beyond ChinaWhile Kevin's initial ventures primarily focused on China, he expanded his reach, driven by the realization that investors often consider emerging markets as a singular allocation. This strategic decision has allowed EMQQ to capture the broader growth potential inherent in multiple emerging economies.Analyzing the Trends: The Triple Mega Trend in Emerging MarketsKevin explains the three mega trends driving growth in emerging markets:Consumer Growth:As emerging markets like China and India continue their economic ascent, consumer demand for products and services is surging.Technological Advancements:The widespread adoption of smartphones and the internet is catalyzing growth, propelling these markets into unprecedented digital integration.Internet Expansion:With most of the world still transitioning to digital, internet companies in these regions are poised for explosive growth.Addressing Regulatory and Perception ChallengesNavigating the regulatory landscape in markets like China is complex. Kevin discusses the challenges and misconceptions around government interventions in major markets, emphasizing the nuanced dynamics that investors must consider.India on the Horizon: A New Chapter in Emerging MarketsLooking ahead, Kevin is optimistic about India’s growth trajectory. With a burgeoning middle class and rapid digital adoption, India, according to Kevin, represents the next big opportunity in emerging markets.Conclusion: A Visionary's Insight into the FutureThrough a blend of insightful analysis and personal experiences, Kevin Carter offers a comprehensive view of the vast opportunities and challenges within emerging markets. His discussion provides invaluable insights for investors and businesses looking to navigate these dynamic spaces.For a deeper dive into these discussions, listen to the full episode of the Asia Business Podcast, where Kevin Carter shares his expertise on emerging markets and the factors driving their transformation. Timestamps00:00 Introduction to the Asia Business Podcast00:35 Kevin Carter's Early Career and Influences03:58 The Birth of EMQQ and Early Ventures07:34 Expanding Beyond China: A Strategic Move12:24 Challenges and Realizations in Emerging Markets20:46 The Internet and E-commerce Revolution25:07 Global Mobile Phone-Based Orders25:48 Regulatory Risks in Emerging Markets27:03 China's Regulatory Landscape30:10 Alibaba and Tencent: Market Dynamics38:18 Impact of Global Trade Policies42:45 Investment Strategies in Emerging Markets46:39 Future Trends in Emerging Markets48:55 Conclusion and Final Thoughts  ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Expanding SMEs in Europe and Asia with Kathryn ReadWelcome to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. In this episode, we are delighted to have Kathryn Read, an accomplished consultant who aids SMEs in expanding their reach into Europe and Asia. With a rich background in the food and beverage industry and extensive experience in infant nutrition, especially concerning China, Kathryn offers invaluable insights into the evolving business climate of Asia.Introducing Kathryn ReadVisit Kathryn's WebsiteKathryn Read is a consultant specializing in guiding small to medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) through the complexities of expanding into diverse Asian markets. Her journey began in Austria, where she transitioned from being a linguist to an influential figure in the infant nutrition sector, specifically targeting China. Her wealth of experience comes not only from her professional roles but also from her firsthand navigation of cultural and business environments across Asia.The Impact of Scandals on Market DynamicsReflecting on the infamous 2008 infant formula scandal in China, Kathryn highlights how such incidents have reshaped consumer trust and market opportunities for foreign brands. This crisis created a significant opening for foreign companies, which were then perceived as more trustworthy compared to local brands. However, Kathryn notes that over the years, China has strengthened its regulations and consumer attitudes have shifted, leading to increased competition for foreign brands.Evolving Consumer Trust and Brand StrategyChina's path from skepticism toward local products to embracing "Made in China" again is a testament to the country's evolving trust landscape. Kathryn stresses the importance for foreign brands to adapt by understanding local consumer preferences and establishing a unique selling proposition (USP) that resonates locally. Success hinges not just on being a foreign brand but offering a narrative and product that aligns with the market's premium or niche tastes.Localizing for Success in Asian MarketsKathryn emphasizes that brands must carefully navigate the balance between preserving their global identity and localizing effectively to appeal to specific Asian markets. Localization can involve adjusting product packaging, altering flavors, or even adapting marketing strategies to suit regional consumer sensibilities. This strategic approach allows brands to maintain their global image while simultaneously penetrating new markets.The Role of Strategic PartnershipsBuilding robust partnerships is a critical strategy for entering Asian markets. Kathryn insists that brands should invest time in cultivating partnerships with local distributors and sales channels. Through shared resources and mutual goals, such partnerships can significantly enhance a brand's market entry and growth processes.Case Study: Crafted Success in KoreaHighlighting an Australian brand's success story, Kathryn shares how Vonderberg Brewed Drinks expertly positioned themselves within Korea by capitalizing on their authenticity and unique packaging. Their strategic entry into high-end bars and cafes, coupled with a compelling brand narrative, underscored the importance of a strong brand identity tailored to local tastes.Navigating Logistics and DistributionKathryn advises that understanding local logistics and leveraging established networks is essential for navigating the complex infrastructure of Asian markets. Working with an importer who can manage distribution nuances and align with the brand's overall strategy is often key to successful market penetration.Future Opportunities and TrendsLooking ahead, Kathryn identifies wellness, affordable luxury, and sustainability as emerging sectors with significant potential for growth in Asia. As consumer preferences towards ethical and health-conscious products grow, brands can find unique opportunities in these evolving sectors.Final Thoughts and Contact InformationKathryn Read brings her extensive expertise to businesses looking to prosper in the Asian markets. Active on LinkedIn and available through her website, kathryneread.com, Kathryn remains an accessible source of knowledge for brands aiming to expand their global footprint.Thank you to Kathryn for sharing her insights, and listeners eagerly glean from such discussions to refine their strategies in the Asian business arena. If you're looking for further engagement with Kathryn or specific insights into Asian market strategies, be sure to reach out.Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome00:38 Kathryn's Background and Experience02:58 Infant Formula Scandal and Market Impact05:06 Changing Consumer Trust and Brand Strategies09:40 Localization and Market Entry Strategies18:11 Sales Channels and Partnerships23:23 Success Stories and Case Studies27:13 Distribution and Logistics Challenges38:31 Future Opportunities and Trends40:33 Conclusion and Contact Information ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

** Exploring China's Economic Shift and Data Insights with Robert Wu**Introduction to Robert Wu and His ExpertiseConnect with RobertVisit BigOneLabRead BaiguanRead China TranslatedIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, we have an engaging conversation with Robert Wu, a respected figure in the field of economic analysis and business strategy. Robert is known for his insightful writings and is the author of "China Translated," a newsletter that offers a deep dive into China's economic trends and their long-term impacts. He is also the co-editor of Baiguan, which provides data-driven insights into China's business sector, and the CEO of Big One Lab, a data-centric market research company.China's Economic Transition: From Investment to ConsumptionThe episode begins with a discussion on China's economic transition towards boosting domestic consumption. Robert emphasizes a pivotal shift in policy thinking, focusing on the relationship between investment and consumption. Historically, China's economy has been heavily skewed towards investment, leading to impressive infrastructure and manufacturing capabilities. However, this model has reached a tipping point, requiring a rebalancing towards consumption to sustain growth. Robert suggests that while the government recognizes this need, the shift requires long-term structural changes and cannot be achieved overnight.Obstacles to Enhancing Domestic ConsumptionArt and Robert explore the challenges in increasing domestic consumption in China. Contrary to some perceptions, Robert asserts that China's safety nets, including healthcare and education, are relatively robust. However, he highlights issues such as child care expenses and regional disparities that need addressing to encourage consumer spending. Cultural factors also play a role, with older generations tending to save rather than spend. Robert predicts potential policy initiatives, such as birth subsidies, to incentivize higher consumption levels.The State of Entrepreneurship and Venture Capital in ChinaThe conversation shifts to the state of entrepreneurship and venture capital in China. Robert paints a picture of a changing landscape, where U.S. capital, a significant driver of China's VC scene, has withdrawn amidst geopolitical tensions. This retreat has forced local entrepreneurs to adapt, focusing more on sustainable, profitable operations rather than relying on VC funding. Although this environment poses challenges, Robert sees it as an opportunity for businesses to build solid foundations, paving the way for a resurgence in entrepreneurial activity.Government Policies and Economic BalanceArt and Robert delve into the complexities of China's government policies, particularly the balancing act between fiscal stimulus and avoiding moral hazards. Robert provides insights into how the government carefully manages domestic economic policies, recognizing the challenges posed by local government debt and the need to drive consumption. Through careful prioritization and measured interventions, Robert believes China aims to sustain growth while preventing excessive risk-taking by local governments.Navigating Regulatory Environments and Market ReactionsThe episode also touches on China's regulatory environment, where crackdowns on sectors such as online education and FinTech have sparked debates. Robert acknowledges the government's need to manage these industries while also recognizing the importance of considering broader market reactions. By learning from past experiences, the government aims to communicate more effectively and avoid unintended economic consequences.Conclusion: An Objective Look at China's Economic DynamicsIn closing, Robert emphasizes the importance of maintaining an objective perspective when analyzing China's economic dynamics. Despite facing various challenges, the country continues to present significant opportunities for businesses and investors. Through his writings, Robert aims to shed light on the complexities of China's business environment, encouraging a balanced and well-informed discussion. Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:27 Robert Wu's Background and Career Journey05:55 China's Economic Evolution and Policy Shifts14:03 Challenges in Boosting Domestic Consumption19:43 The State of Venture Capital and Entrepreneurship in China27:37 Challenges in VC Funding and Entrepreneurship29:16 VC Funding: A Double-Edged Sword30:21 Government's Fiscal Discipline and Economic Priorities31:05 Balancing Fiscal Stimulus and Moral Hazard35:40 Sector Crackdowns and Policy Implications41:21 Navigating Misinformation and Bias46:38 The Motivation Behind Writing and Sharing Insights51:02 Conclusion and Future Plans ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Ivy Yang, founder of Wavelet Strategy and expert in U.S.-China business dynamics, delves into the future of TikTok amid potential bans. She discusses the shift of users to RedNote, highlighting its unique features and user experience. Ivy explores the cultural implications of moving towards a Chinese platform while addressing U.S. perceptions of Chinese apps like TikTok and Shein. She emphasizes the challenges Chinese brands face in defining their identity in the U.S. market against a backdrop of geopolitical tensions.

Manufacturing in Asia: Challenges and Opportunities Beyond China with Jeffrey GoldsteinJoin us for an insightful episode of the Asia Business Podcast where we had the pleasure of interviewing Jeffrey Goldstein, CEO of Onward Global. This episode explores the complexities of supply chain management in China and beyond, providing expert advice and identifying future trends for businesses looking to diversify their manufacturing bases.Connect with Jeffrey GoldsteinVisit Onward GlobalMeet Jeffrey GoldsteinJeffrey Goldstein is an industry leader with 15 years of experience based in China and eight years at the helm of Onward Global. His expertise in managing and scaling supply chain operations for U.S. brands across Asia provides valuable insights for businesses navigating the evolving landscape.The Current State of China's Supply ChainJeff highlights that despite changes, China's supply chain remains competitive due to its diversity, flexibility, and cost-effectiveness. However, two macro changes impacting this landscape include:Financial instability within China's economy, leading to factory bankruptcies.A labor shortage due to demographic changes and shifts in young workforce preferences.Goldstein emphasizes the significance for brands to understand the financial health of their suppliers amidst these challenges.The Geopolitical Landscape and China Plus One StrategyWith geopolitical tensions and trade policies affecting sourcing strategies, Goldstein stresses the growing trend of the "China Plus One" strategy. This approach involves maintaining China as a primary manufacturing hub while diversifying production to additional countries to mitigate risks. He notes that while some relocation has occurred, it presents strategic and operational challenges.Emerging Manufacturing HubsJeffrey points out that Vietnam, Cambodia, and India are becoming key manufacturing destinations, each with their strengths and weaknesses. He elaborates on the growing sophistication and diverse capabilities within Vietnam's supply chain, Cambodia's focus on apparel exports, and India's potential despite its domestic-market-focused factories.Risks and Challenges in New MarketsWhile sourcing in these emerging hubs presents opportunities, Goldstein warns of the risks involved, such as the complexities of unknown markets and the challenges of building new relationships. He stresses the importance of applying best sourcing practices, thorough market research, and building local relationships as companies venture into new territories.Best Practices for Successful Supply Chain DiversificationGoldstein advises businesses to practice due diligence, from verifying potential partners and understanding local legal frameworks to engaging with local experts. He emphasizes the need to be realistic in terms of time, cost, and resources required for effective diversification.The Future of Global Supply ChainsLooking forward, Jeff predicts an acceleration of the current trends: reduced capacity in China's manufacturing sector and increased interest in developing supply chains in other Asian countries. For smaller companies, he highlights the importance of starting preparations early to stay competitive amidst these shifts.ConclusionFor more information or to connect with Jeffrey Goldstein, visit Onward Global’s website or reach out via LinkedIn.Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome00:23 Jeffrey Goldstein's Background and Onward Global01:18 China's Supply Chain Evolution03:59 Geopolitical Tensions and Trade Policies05:08 China Plus One Strategy08:12 Challenges of Sourcing Outside China20:35 Best Practices for Sourcing24:12 Automation and Labor Costs29:29 Successful Supply Chain Diversification35:33 Future Trends and Final Thoughts38:20 Conclusion and Contact Information ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Chinese Companies Going Global: Challenges and Opportunities with Guoli ChenWelcome to another exciting episode of the Asia Business Podcast! Our host, Art Dicker, invites us on a fascinating journey with esteemed guest Professor Guoli Chen from INSEAD in Singapore. Professor Chen, a strategy expert and author of the book Seeing the Unseen: Behind Chinese Tech Giants' Global Venturing, offers an in-depth look at the rapid growth and global expansion of Chinese companies.Connect with Guoli ChenUnderstanding Chinese Companies' Rapid GrowthKey Factors behind Domestic SuccessThe conversation kicks off with a discussion about why Chinese companies grow so swiftly in domestic markets, and a significant question: Is this growth due to a looser legal framework allowing for faster advancement? Professor Chen clarifies that while government policies play a role, deeper factors contribute to this phenomenon.Professor Chen provides insights into his research on corporate governance and strategic leadership, focusing on the phenomenal growth of consumer tech companies like Alibaba, JD, Tencent, and TikTok. He explains that one of the primary reasons for their rapid growth is the unique market conditions within China that foster quick adaptations and innovations.Challenges of Going GlobalWe examine whether the complexity of the Chinese market makes it easier or harder for these companies to adapt to Western standards and regulations.Professor Chen points out that the successful business models developed in China do not always translate well abroad due to different market ecosystems, supply chains, and customer behaviors. For instance, Tencent’s WeChat ecosystem is deeply integrated into Chinese daily life, which does not easily replicate in other countries.Opportunities and Constraints for Chinese Multinational CorporationsSupply Chain and Operational EfficiencyProfessor Chen emphasizes the strength of Chinese supply chains, particularly in manufacturing. Companies like Shein and Pinduoduo leverage China's powerful production capabilities and seamless integration to deliver goods to global markets efficiently. This operational efficiency is a competitive advantage that is tough for others to imitate.Data Utilization and Consumer InsightChinese tech firms excel in harnessing data to understand and predict consumer behavior. Companies like Shein and Tmall use sophisticated algorithms to adapt quickly to market demands, offering tailored solutions to consumers, which enhances their global competitiveness.Leadership Styles and Organizational CultureThe conversation takes an insightful turn as the hosts delve into the differences in leadership styles between Chinese and Western companies. Professor Chen points out that many Chinese leaders adopt a low-profile, authoritative style, setting clear directions for their teams. This contrasts with the more visible and charismatic leadership common in Western tech firms.However, this authoritative style also poses challenges, especially when expanding globally. The ability to manage diverse teams and integrate different cultural perspectives is crucial for international success. Professor Chen stresses the need for Chinese multinational corporations (MNCs) to embrace diversity and cross-cultural management practices.Adapting to Global Markets: Lessons and StrategiesIterative Market ApproachNico brings up an interesting point about Chinese companies' iterative approach to market feedback. Instead of relying heavily on focus groups, Chinese firms often launch products quickly and iterate based on real-time consumer feedback. This method allows for rapid adjustments and continuous innovation.Integrating Global TalentThe importance of integrating non-Chinese talent into Chinese MNCs is another crucial topic discussed. Professor Chen emphasizes that for Chinese firms to succeed internationally, they must attract and retain local talents who understand the specificities of foreign markets.ConclusionProfessor Chen leaves us with a thought-provoking insight: while Chinese companies have shown incredible growth and innovation, their ability to adapt and navigate the complexities of global markets will determine their long-term success. Continuous learning, adaptability, and embracing a global mindset will be essential for these enterprises as they compete on the world stage. Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:18 Understanding Chinese Business Dynamics04:00 Challenges for Chinese Companies Overseas10:24 Successful Chinese Business Models21:57 Leadership and Organizational Culture33:43 Future of Chinese Companies Globally38:13 Conclusion and Farewell ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Join us as Josh Lee, Co-founder of Cathoven, shares how their AI-powered platform is revolutionizing language teaching. From discussing Cathoven's core technology to its global impact, learn how they're reshaping the language learning industry and driving change in education.Producer Jacob Thomas Follow Us LinkedIn Apple Podcasts

Navigating Cross-Border Investments and Family Offices with Danye WangIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, we are privileged to have Danye Wang as our special guest. Danye is the managing partner at UniGlobe Capital, an institutional advisory firm focused on international allocation and family offices, as well as cross-border investments. Your host, Art Dicker, delves into a comprehensive discussion with Danye about her professional journey and the burgeoning family office landscape in Asia.Introduction to Danye WangConnect with DanyeVisit UniGlobeDanye Wang has an illustrious career trajectory that began in China. She moved to the United States for her college education and graduated during the financial crisis of 2008. Against the odds, she secured a role at BlackRock, which has now grown to be one of the world's largest asset managers. At BlackRock, Danye held a client-facing role, dealing with central banks, sovereign wealth funds, and insurance companies.Through her career, Danye has gained profound insights into the evolving investment landscape and the myriad opportunities and challenges within it. She brings a wealth of knowledge and experience, particularly in the context of international investments and family offices.The Growth of Family Offices in AsiaAsia has witnessed substantial growth in the number of family offices over recent years. According to recent stats, about 9% of the world's 20,000 family offices are located in Asia. This number is set to surge as Asia's ultra-high-net-worth individuals (UHNWIs) grow by almost 40% from 2022 to 2027.Danye notes that family offices in Asia are relatively new, with around 40% of them being established post-2010. Several factors encourage the creation of family offices, including significant exit events, generational transitions, and the need for diversification. Family offices can handle an array of activities from investment and tax planning to philanthropy and family governance.Navigating Investment OpportunitiesThe conversation takes an insightful turn as Danye delves into why UHNWIs would set up family offices. The discussion encompasses several key aspects:Separation of Legal Entities: To ensure accountability and professionalism in their financial activities.Proactive Investment Behavior: Whether they set up single-family or multifamily offices, Danye emphasizes the proactive nature of these entities in sourcing investments.Diversification: One of the primary drivers behind setting up family offices is the diversification of investments to manage risk and explore new opportunities beyond traditional sectors like manufacturing and real estate.Art Dicker touches on a stereotype that Asian investors often want safety, liquidity, and high returns all at once. Danye confirms that while such expectations were prevalent in the past, the landscape is shifting toward more realistic and sophisticated investment strategies.Single vs. Multifamily OfficesThe debate between establishing single-family offices versus joining multifamily offices is a significant consideration. Danye explains that the choice often boils down to factors such as costs, expertise, and control. Single-family offices offer greater control and emotional attachment, but they come with higher operational costs. The general guideline suggests starting a single-family office only with assets above 50 million USD, ideally 100 million USD.Multifamily offices, on the other hand, offer economies of scale and access to diversified investment opportunities. They often attract professionals from private banking backgrounds, bringing a wealth of experience and networks.Investment Screening and Talent AcquisitionAn essential part of managing a family office is talent acquisition and the structuring of investment strategies. Danye emphasizes that screening quality investments requires understanding the team, strategy, and track record. For family offices, hiring talent from investment banks, private equity, and asset management firms is crucial for maintaining a robust investment strategy.The Singapore vs. Hong Kong DilemmaTowards the end of the discussion, Danye sheds light on the trend of family offices setting up in Singapore vs. Hong Kong. While Singapore has seen a huge influx of family offices due to its stable political climate and international connectivity, Hong Kong offers a robust financial sector with access to top global banks and asset managers. Despite recent scrutiny over asset flows into Singapore, it continues to be a preferred destination for many family offices.ConclusionThe comprehensive discussion with Danye Wang underscores the dynamic and evolving nature of family offices in Asia. From understanding the factors driving their establishment to navigating investment opportunities and talent acquisition, the episode offers a wealth of insights for anyone interested in the world of family offices.For more in-depth discussions and industry insights, make sure to subscribe to our podcast and stay updated with our latest episodes! Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome00:33 Danye Wang's Background and Career Journey04:53 Growth of Family Offices in Asia10:17 Setting Up and Managing Family Offices26:48 Direct Investments vs. Fund Allocations37:53 Choosing Between Single and Multi-Family Offices48:34 Hong Kong vs. Singapore for Family Offices53:37 Conclusion and Contact Information ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Strategies for Investing in Latin America from an Asian PerspectiveWelcome to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast! In this episode, host Art Dicker engages in an in-depth conversation with Edmond Hui, the founder and managing partner of Acacia Venture Capital Partners. Acacia is an early-stage VC fund focusing on emerging markets, particularly Latin America. Edmond shares his insights on the evolving investment landscape in Latin America, drawing parallels with the development patterns in China.Introduction to Edmond HuiEdmond Hui is a well-known figure in the venture capital space, particularly for his efforts to bridge the investment corridors between Asia and Latin America. A graduate of the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) and a seasoned graduate from the Global EMBA and AMP program at CEIBS, Edmond has a wealth of experience to share.Why Latin America?Kicking off the discussion, Art and Edmond dive into why Acacia Venture Capital Partners has chosen to focus on Latin America despite being based in Asia. Edmond explains, "Latin America has immense potential to catch up with China's growth trajectory. The region's expected GDP per capita rivals that of China, providing fertile ground for emerging markets."Identifying Great FoundersArt delves into the challenge of identifying great founders in Latin America, a region that traditionally lacks a deep pool of entrepreneurial talent compared to the U.S. or China. Edmond highlights the unique approach they take by looking for founders with extensive educational backgrounds and entrepreneurial experience, regardless of whether their past ventures were successful or not.Talent and Infrastructure ChallengesThe conversation turns to the well-documented shortage of engineering talent in Latin America. Edmond notes an emerging trend where individuals who study abroad in the U.S. return to their home countries, bringing valuable skills and knowledge with them. Additionally, he mentions various educational programs similar to the Lambda School that are nurturing the next generation of tech talent.Investment in InfrastructureArt and Edmond discuss the significant opportunities that Latin America's infrastructure gaps present. Edmond shares insights on how Acacia has invested in logistics and FinTech companies, leveraging the growth in e-commerce and the rapid adoption of smartphones.Mitigating Political and Economic RiskAddressing the elephant in the room, Art asks how political and economic instability in Latin America affects Acacia's investment strategy. Edmond explains that while they avoid extreme cases like Argentina and Venezuela, they focus on the microeconomics of businesses in more stable countries like Mexico, Colombia, and Chile.Sourcing Deals from AsiaGiven that Acacia is based in Asia, Art queries how the firm sources deals in Latin America. Edmond reveals that the digital shift brought on by COVID-19 has tremendously minimized geographical barriers. Regular Zoom meetings and bi-annual trips to Latin America help maintain strong relationships with portfolio companies.The Role of Pattern MatchingOne of the core strengths of Acacia's investment strategy lies in leveraging their extensive experience in China to identify potential winners in Latin America. They apply a unique pattern-matching approach, comparing emerging sectors in Latin America with those that have matured in China. This strategy helps them foresee trends and potential outcomes, providing a competitive edge.Overcoming Depressed ValuationsThe current environment of depressed startup valuations presents a golden opportunity for contrarian investors like Acacia. Edmond explains how their rigorous investment process ensures they identify and invest in high-potential companies at attractive valuations, positioning themselves for future growth.The Path to ExitsFinally, Art and Edmond discuss the critical aspect of achieving successful exits. Edmond outlines various exit strategies, including trade sales and IPOs, emphasizing that macroeconomic conditions and robust market fundamentals in Latin America make it possible to achieve substantial returns.ConclusionAs the episode draws to a close, Art thanks Edmond for sharing his invaluable insights into the opportunities and challenges of investing in Latin America. Edmond's expertise and Acacia's strategic approach make a compelling case for the tremendous potential that lies in this dynamic region.For anyone interested in learning more about how emerging markets like Latin America are reshaping the global investment landscape, this episode is a must-listen. Thank you, Ed, for coming on the show and enlightening us with your perspectives! Timestamps00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome01:13 Why Invest in Latin America?02:18 Identifying and Supporting Great Founders05:29 Addressing Talent Shortages in Latin America07:00 Infrastructure and Financial Opportunities11:06 Navigating Political and Economic Instability13:56 China-Latin America Investment Corridor17:11 Acacia's Investment Process22:48 Leveraging China Experience for Latin America29:42 Current Market Valuations and Opportunities31:42 Exit Strategies and Market Potential35:56 Conclusion and Final Thoughts ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts

Connect with Chenchao Liu on LinkedInVisit SILREALs websiteVisit Asia Business Podcast Full show Transcript below Summary and TimestampsOverviewIn this episode of the Asia Business Podcast, host Art Dicker interviews Chenchao Liu, the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm focusing on healthcare and Sino-European business exchanges. Chenchao shares his journey from China to Germany, his transition from science to business, and the mission of bridging the healthcare sectors between China and the West. They discuss the unique collaboration opportunities in pharmaceuticals and healthcare services between China and Europe, navigating political barriers, and the impact of regulations like IP protection and data sharing laws. The conversation delves into the challenges and trends reshaping the industry in China, including the aging population, health consciousness post-COVID, and the dynamics of foreign companies adapting to China's volume-based pricing system. Timestamps00:00 Introduction to the Episode and Guest00:41 Chenchao Liu's Journey from China to Germany and Founding SILREAL01:49 Bridging Sino-European Business in Healthcare02:54 Exploring Recent Projects and the Impact of SILREAL's Work05:03 Opportunities for China-Europe Collaboration in Healthcare08:20 Navigating Political Barriers in Sino-European Relations16:23 The Impact of Regulations on Cross-Border Healthcare Collaboration21:15 Macro Trends Shaping the Healthcare Industry in China31:16 Concluding Remarks and How to Connect with Chenchao Liu TranscriptArt: [00:00:00] Welcome everybody to another episode of the Asia Business Podcast. I'm your host, Art Dicker. Today we have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Chenchao Liu. Chenchao is the founder of SILREAL, a management consulting firm specializing in the healthcare sector [00:00:15] and fostering Sino European business exchanges.Art: Welcome Chenchao.Chenchao: Thank you, Art. Thank you for having me. Art: Yeah, we've been talking. We've been talking a few times over the last couple of years or so, and [00:00:30] it just seemed natural that we do a podcast. We've had long conversations, the two of us just talking about some of these things we're going to get into.Art: So it's, like I said, it's natural. We just record an episode about it. And, you were born in China, but you've lived in Germany for more than 20 [00:00:45] years now. And I was wondering if you could share a bit about your own kind Your own story behind the founding of SILREAL and then also help the audience understand a bit more kind of work you do to bridge the European Chinese markets in life [00:01:00] sciences.Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Art. Thank you for really inviting me and I respect and follow your work for a while and appreciate that I could share some of my story here. Yeah, as you mentioned, yeah, I was born in [00:01:15] China in Qingdao, historical city connected to Germany. And I came to Germany when I was 13. So I went to elementary school, and I studied chemistry in Munich.Chenchao: And had very devoted concentration interested into [00:01:30] science and was very active. I high school already for Olympics and later for Mustang Institute ATH. But I realized later that due to the internship I did with consulting firms that I'm really belong to the business world.Chenchao: I [00:01:45] want to work with people. I want to be in real impact making. And yeah, so I after graduation, I went to consulting firm, I did a lot of projects for hospitals and also for private equities [00:02:00] in 2017 when I realized that I wanted to Do more things with China. I said to myself look into the mirror.Chenchao: You cannot just look like this way. It's better that you could do something content wise with the country [00:02:15] where you're from. And yeah, I started to advise some Chinese firms who come to Europe and vice versa. And yeah, and what is really entrepreneurial journey. Nobody has taught me how to build business, so really try and [00:02:30] arrow and yeah, I think it's combination of hard work, persistent and also support of others.Chenchao: We have thright and have again, some traction, have project from federal menstrual health and the state governments help some big [00:02:45] pharma like AstraZeneca. And yeah, I really want to be the bridge in life science healthcare between China and the West. Art: And can you talk a bit about some of the sort of the projects that you've worked on recently and[00:03:00] or so, some, so give the audience a really some context for some actual to the extent you're allowed to talk about it, but I know also we'll get into it.Art: You've got quite a. Number of wonderful endorsements on your websites from the projects you've worked on, but just [00:03:15] to give the audience a bit of wrap their heads around the actual kind of consulting work and so forth that you do. Chenchao: Yeah, thank you, Arthur. So basically, we have three main sectors of industries.Chenchao: We serve for health [00:03:30] care, life science and public sector. We have done digitalization project for health care providers in Germany. I helped them to modernize their 6000 employee. System of hrs and consolidate over [00:03:45] 20 entities. And also to transform how they track employee working time and management of the post recruitment retention.Chenchao: So other project we have done is really to bring [00:04:00] public and private sector together to tackle Corona diseases. To learn from each other between German China when it's come to for example, COPD. I think the strengths we can bring here is really to understand the [00:04:15] policy, understand the legal justice nature.Chenchao: But also to bridge, what does it make the difference between how Germany and China handle different disease areas. And lastly, as I mentioned for the government public sector we do [00:04:30] oftentimes delegation trips for ministry level for experts from insurance for hospital representative to really to understand how big countries like China, Israel and the U.Chenchao: S. Playing around in the [00:04:45] digitalization. And that's why I think it's very crucial especially in this age to have a active dialogue because I do think, as you mentioned, the before the trip for by the chancellor, there's this avenue of collaboration [00:05:00] is still very strong within the healthcare.Art: Yeah, let's jump into that, jump ahead into that question. The, in an ideal scenario, devoid of political barriers, and we'll get into those, maybe some of those political barriers in a 2nd, but, what are some of the [00:05:15] unique opportunities for collaboration between China and Europe in the, pharmaceuticals, biotechnology.Art: Health care services, because it seems like there's you've already hit on it a bit. There's naturally a lot of synergies. There's just by listening to some of the projects [00:05:30] you've supported so far. So without politics in the mix, what would be the, some of the more of those kind of natural synergies between between China and Europe in these sectors?Chenchao: Yeah, thank you. I think due to a large population, 1. [00:05:45] 5 billion in people in China, and it's already is the second biggest market in healthcare and pharmaceuticals and it's posed to become the biggest one but if you look at the per capital expenditure China is still lagging very [00:06:00] far behind.Chenchao: It's only around 10 percent or less, Of that expenditure per capita compared to European level. So there's a lot of to catch up and I think aging population China and also very high pressure for, [00:06:15] a younger generation birth rate. So there's a lot of issues within the society and also the plague by the chronic diseases in various forms.Chenchao: I just mentioned COPD, but there's also other ways and the cancer [00:06:30] and, uh, heart related diseases. And I think this is also very important after the COVID, like how to also in the community diseases are prevented. Measurement and the very [00:06:45] important role China can have. So I think this is really laid the ground for multinationals to really look into China and the force of their expansion.Chenchao: And despite all the attention we have touched on, I think there's a lot [00:07:00] of company. Are just announced even further and stronger presence in China, like as Seneca's new research facility in Hong Kong. In Heim also mentioned the billion of investment [00:07:15] going on. So there is still very strong sense that the market due to the high population, due to also the infrastructure because China is still at home.Chenchao: of a very strong, supplier for biosimilar and and [00:07:30] APIs for big pharmaceuticals around globe. So it's very crucial to have a healthy relationship with China to keep supply chain safe and secure. Art: Yeah, and that's actually in contrast a little bit to what's been going on in the U. S. [00:07:45] these days.Art: It's more and more Chinese companies are potentially Congress is in an election year here in the U. S., as is looking at more and more Chinese companies. And now that's extended to the bios and pharmaceutical sector as well, which is, I guess people thought might [00:08:00] happen, but maybe not so quickly.Art: So that's it seems like Europe is not it is quite different, which is I guess not surprising but that's been in the news here in the U. S. too. And it's living here in San Diego, California, where I know a lot of those, the Chinese companies and U. S. companies, [00:08:15] this is a place where they work together.Art: It's I don't know, a little bit disheartening to see that happening, but but I guess there's. Anyway, I won't get into the concerns but now that we do put let's say, we put politics to some of the tensions into the mix. How is that starting [00:08:30] at all to influence cooperation between China and Europe?Art: Like I said, China in the US, I think that's already definitely having an impact, but do you see that having an impact at all between China and Europe? Yeah, definitely. Are there are [00:08:45] big impacts. The question is like how, long term and how quantifiable other impacts. I think everything is put into perspective.Chenchao: I think compared to other industries health care amount climate are still Thank you. [00:09:00] Very strong, constructive avenue of collaboration, but I do agree with your assessment. There's a difference between US China, European China relationship, and I think underlined by the trip by Chancellor Scholz from [00:09:15] Germany with three ministers and all state secretary level people, three days.Chenchao: Very long stay. So it's a really strong signal not only to China, but to the rest of the world that we need a very strong dialogue. We need a very [00:09:30] strong, and the Stanford, even we cannot agree on everything on every issues. But I think this kind of. Very pragmatic approach that we need China also to solve major conflicts in Middle East in Ukraine, Russian conflict, [00:09:45] and others.Chenchao: I think this is just to serve, the best interests of the people who ultimately, At the say in the democracies in the West. So I think when it's come to industry politics I do believe that, of course [00:10:00] Europeans want to, have the access to Chinese market. At the same time, it's very critical.Chenchao: Look at at, also from the legislative and legal point of view, China. The IP laws, the cyber security laws, and also the [00:10:15] limitation data transfer. These are all the problems, especially also for R& D intensive industry like pharmaceuticals, biotech. And so this is a strong position for European part to get China more to create [00:10:30] a, a fair competition environment.Chenchao: So this has been a very strong agenda of the trip as well. I personally, as I said, I was organized of the delegation trip myself for the ministry level. And last year I was [00:10:45] invited for the delegation trip by the climate minister from Germany. So I do see a very strong willingness to collaborate.Chenchao: And to willingness to, to collaborate in field where common dialogue is [00:11:00] possible. And I'm very hopeful to see, and just to stay by Germany in June the economy, Mr. Habeck is going to China as well. So I do think that's within this year very crucial both to the election, as you mentioned, yes.Chenchao: [00:11:15] But also some very highly watched elections within the states in Germany. So yeah so China West relation has always been very significant. Art: Yeah, that's, I think there's, that's a great point. Look at that three days and high [00:11:30] level visits like that. And that's really, I don't think there's many other countries that do that.Art: So of course, certainly not the United States, but there's, that's that As you said, really would show a sign of commitment to the relationship and the markets [00:11:45] opportunities both ways even. And I did also read that Chancellor Schultz said that IP protection, you hit on it.Art: There is was maybe the chief concern of German companies. And I wonder if. We can get into that as a bit of a side [00:12:00] topic. Is that a is that still a concern for German companies in these sectors we've been talking about? Or is that more, let's say, in some of the traditional auto or other sectors that German companies have been also quite strong in is that I'm [00:12:15] talking about IP protection in China.Art: I know, because, of course, I practice law cross border there, and I can certainly. The audience, if they've been listening to me, know that I think that IP protection in China has gotten significantly better than it was [00:12:30] when I first started going over there. But I, like I said, Chancellor Schultz said that's still a primary concern for German companies.Art: Do you see that in your industries as well? Chenchao: I think one say it's reputation is hard to build but easy to lose, [00:12:45] right? So once you have a not very good reputation when it comes to IP protection, IP enforcement, and it's very hard to build back the reputation. I do agree on legislative level, China has already made progress and [00:13:00] had also You know enforce the law and to punish some of the companies who infiltrate the IP so I think I totally agree with your assessment, but the other hand, when it's come to all our confidence in Chinese market, when it's come to [00:13:15] IP, it is still very low slope recovery. So that's concern remains. And because there's also the effect of those high pace of regulatory changes in China, right?Chenchao: So we, we see A new laws coming in rapid [00:13:30] speed, there's no time to read, to digest, to understand the comment, not like the legislative cycles we know from the democratic system in the U. S. or in Europe, in the European Union. Everything's slower, people have time to debate, to [00:13:45] comment, and to see the final draft of the law might be totally different.Chenchao: In China, you have to really keep up the pace to understand the new laws, what is impact for the business. And I think the other very current issue art is also [00:14:00] when it's come to espionage law in China, and this has also direct. Impacting the pharmaceuticals company because the audit and the inspections for this kind of factory and sites who are [00:14:15] producing products directly for the European U.Chenchao: S. market are scrutinized. And but not in the direct way. It's just, as I said, a lot of confidence, fear of to be imprisoned, fear of to be Questions on the [00:14:30] airport that's why many inspectors are refusing to fly to China to do their audit job, which is very concerning because even there's nothing happened alone, this kind of angst, this kind of uncertainty is not very good [00:14:45]confidence for business.Chenchao: And we know if their sites and the manufacturer entities are not a certified, they are not allowed to sell products in the board. And. This doesn't only harm business, it just can harm patient's health, safety, [00:15:00] and patient care. So we really have to act fast and to come to a really good pragmatic agreement.Chenchao: So there's reinstalled the confidence. I think at the end of the day, we cannot regard business or economic ize only on paper, [00:15:15] on legal. But rather on people's perception, we have to regain the confidence we have to regain that China is a reliable partner and not just being said, not just put on paper, but lived by [00:15:30] example.Chenchao: I think this is also an effort we, both sides, need to make an effort. Art: Yeah, and I see that on the U. S. China side as well, there's a perception and, it's hard to say exactly [00:15:45] what the reality is, but there's a perception. That recently, especially that it's not safe for executives to travel to China.Art: And even the U S state department has put out a travel advisory last year about that did warning executives [00:16:00] to, from, for traveling from the U S to China that they may get questioned or may not be able to come back on the exact flight they had originally planned and so forth. So even if those concerns, or even if that's not exactly the way it is in reality.[00:16:15]Art: There's those perceptions, like you said, and that affects real business decisions and planning for investments and audits, like you said it does affect things. And I'll stick with regulations because you mentioned the anti espionage law and, a lot of that has also to do with [00:16:30] some of the.Art: The data regulations that come out, and those have also come out and been implemented very quickly and almost the regulators are trying to catch up because companies have concerns. How do I implement the PIPL in my business? And this doesn't [00:16:45] add up and this doesn't make sense. And the regulators, particularly the cyber security administration there, they've had to.Art: Been in catch up mode, I think, especially the last couple of years. So how have these regulations, of course, Europe is very in Germany, and I'm very familiar with [00:17:00] GDPR and how have these regulations for especially the PIPL in China, the data protection law, how has that affected cross border healthcare collaborations and data sharing recently?Chenchao: Yeah. Thank you, Arda. I think this is [00:17:15] very crucial questions. I think in that field is very also innovative, new, of course, the get challenged by the industries, big tech companies but the AI act, digital market act. So there's a lot of initiative [00:17:30] legislations where your European union employs to be very on the frontier of the regulation of the digital era.Chenchao: GDPR has been for a long time. I think it is very restrictive law. It's protects [00:17:45] the data very strongly, and it's also becomes even, people criticize to be very bureaucratic to be very, noisy. But somehow in the international level, it's also receives a positive [00:18:00] example set by the European Union.Chenchao: This is when it's come to China, also some positive thing to, to tell about the China because the privacy law. It has been improved, has been introduced, and also follow some of the [00:18:15]patterns by GDPR as a good leadership in that regard. But again, the law is only has its value when it's enforced, right?Chenchao: So this is a discrepancy, I think, not only a problem China faces, but in many countries [00:18:30] as well. But in that regard, China is definitely doing better. But, and also there's a concession, I think, also due to the recent diplomatic warm up that China allows data outflow again of company related data for big [00:18:45] companies.Chenchao: I think this is very important to rebuild the trust, rebuild the confidence. I think, similar to the topic of the capital outflow, very sensitive, but also very important topic. And because China need to [00:19:00] have confidence and the favorite investors and company. So I think this was the right step.Chenchao: And I do think this has to be even more in the long term to be rebalanced, renegotiated. When it comes to other legislations as you mentioned, [00:19:15] espionage law, I think in general speaking they are very, of course follow a certain pattern of, what happens in the U. S.,Chenchao: Following the 9 11 Patriot Act. So China tries also to have very strong [00:19:30]regulations and legislative, toolboxes to, to survey and also monitor citizens, companies, and to have very strong executive powers in case of unseen danger for the national security.Chenchao: But the [00:19:45] law is, it's very expensive and very widely weak interpreted. And this is also led to the suspicion and also the threat and by people who read the law just to be very hard to [00:20:00] appropriate when which case applies, which not, I think it does need more concretized formulation to make sure that, no more operations, especially in the very crucial areas in pharmaceutical [00:20:15] manufacturing are not hindered and prohibited.Chenchao: And because I think China as a nation of a modern industry is very keen to become a leadership in digital [00:20:30] health in, in, in clinical trials providers. And also to be, very strong out licensing production site. So China itself need to say a very open environment. And I think the government is more and [00:20:45] more keen to understand that it's not just do a favor for a foreign company, but more and more it's actually very imperative for China.Chenchao: For the Chinese firm to succeed on the global stage, Art: that's a good point. That's a [00:21:00] good way of putting it that, that, maybe in some ways it felt like the regulations are there to protect local Chinese companies, but at some point you don't want to keep protecting them if it means, if it prevents them from becoming globally competitive.Art: So we, and we [00:21:15] touched on the. The market opportunities a bit and some of the macro trends that are shaping the industry and the opportunity there in China. But I wanted to go back to that a bit still. There's an aging population in China and there's also a global increase in kind of [00:21:30] the health consciousness post COVID, especially in China.Art: I noticed when I was living there. So what macro trends do you believe are continuing to reshape the industry in China and pulling. Foreign companies to, to keep working there and keep looking for [00:21:45] opportunities. Chenchao: Yeah, I think China has been facing multiple fronts of challenges, right? I think the big factor you just mentioned is the COVID wave which the implication repercussions are still to be failed and to be seen [00:22:00] and to be recovered.Chenchao: And we have a lot of issues within this company and, we have very strong loss confidence in the stock market in Hong Kong. Almost two digits trailing off value was webbed out and [00:22:15]we have a problem with the company who don't want to go IPO at all. We have property market is collapsing which makes up to almost a one fifth of the GDP.Chenchao: So there's a lot of big issues within the [00:22:30] company within the country. And we have a declining population, we, the population already picked and not only that the number, but also, especially we're talking about an area in India, the population is still very young there under [00:22:45]30 where here is aging very rapidly.Chenchao: And and then also, I think this is something which people hardly want to talk about. Is, we know that the government is very powerful, where it's strong and very directive. But [00:23:00] once you come to people's reproduction the limitation is also to be observed, right? So you cannot dictate everything.Chenchao: And so it's very important to create a society and environment where people feel safe, feel protected, feel [00:23:15] supported to have children. And also to cope with the fact, okay, what do we do as government, as a society, if the birth rate is not increasing, so we have to make people more productive to make sure that we create the opportunity [00:23:30] for people, especially in the health care sector, when it comes to care nursing, I think.Chenchao: And we have a lot of things to catch up when it comes to the systematic education where already a lot of things have been, transferred and learned from the West, especially when [00:23:45] it comes to machinery and automobile, but now it's have to shift more to health care and service areas. And which is already taking place, and this is why China needs open dialogues, open collaboration [00:24:00] with us.Chenchao: It's not only just keep the markets open, but keep the people safe, keep the patients served. And this is something we have to have a longer run, longer view to make sure this is happening. I think this is a very, [00:24:15] pressing issue the Asian population. But I do think, we, we can create a system where it's also the, questions linger in the second level when it's come to the problem of who call, the residency.Chenchao: There's [00:24:30] come to the issue like universal income, and it's a very big disparity of wealth disparity of big. So this are all connected dots, when it's come to the question why people don't want to give birth, why we don't have confidence in [00:24:45] the country to thrive and So I think this is take a long run to, to rebuild everything.Chenchao: But I think it's very good start to really, to ensure very valuable and needed jobs like nursing, healthcare professionals, [00:25:00] and also to tackle the problem of youth unemployment. Art: Yeah, lots of macro challenges there. And it's you're right. The, also the government there, it takes some somewhat of, I guess you could call it like a [00:25:15] paternalistic kind of approach in some ways it doesn't, in some ways it's very hands off, maybe two hands off, but one way it does take the a very, It does get very involved, and especially compared to the U.Art: S. where, the U. S. where health care costs are pretty, pretty out of [00:25:30] control. China has this volume based pricing system to try to control health care costs as best as it can. I know I've used the public health system in China and some of the public hospitals, and I'm amazed at how inexpensive the costs [00:25:45] are.Art: Now, of course, if you're looking, if you're going into the hospitals there in Shanghai, you see they have this very expensive equipment. But they're using it at a mass production kind of scale. You use a CT scan there. It's like a factory. They're getting people in and out. [00:26:00] So I wonder for at least maybe going back to the volume based pricing that a lot of the government requires for firms, including foreign firms that are doing business there.Art: How have foreign firms, let's say from Germany or the EU how have they [00:26:15] struggled with that policy? In, in, In their market approach in China, or maybe they've just learned to adapt to it, right? Maybe it's more similar to some of the pricing policies that they've faced in Europe. The US, of course, is [00:26:30] those companies probably face less of that.Chenchao: Yeah, I think this is a very interesting and impactful for questions. And when it comes to access to healthcare providers and [00:26:45] access to the best solution, innovation and pharmaceuticals. So I think when it comes to procurement strategy, Chinese government, and this is also where you see, central government's power compared to capitalism driven forces in the U.Chenchao: [00:27:00] S. Where, 18 percent GDP are spent on healthcare, where a lot of money is spent, but the outcome is not where we, good compared to much of the cheaper system in the European Union. But when it comes to China, I think there's a lot of reforms happening, [00:27:15] for decades.Chenchao: We have different reforms of Chinese FDA to national it got products and administration. So a lot of things have been changed. And I also, over the 30 provinces in China have been also consolidated to [00:27:30] one central pricing negotiation scheme within central government, which also voice.Chenchao: It's a provincial government competing each other and to set a different level of pricing, which can not be benefiting the patient or [00:27:45] hospital system. So the power of central government negotiates on pricing is very huge. And in China, for many in therapeutic areas, we already see the lowest price.Chenchao: Globally, even lower than some [00:28:00] African countries. So China is very strong when it comes to pushing the price down over 90%. Did a deduction reduction is not a rare. So the questions as you ask, what does it mean for their foreign companies? I think [00:28:15] still many companies, of course, they fall. They say, okay, under certain price, we don't want to play anymore.Chenchao: But big names and the big companies still being not only, I think, just to be in the [00:28:30]market, to please the government, to really be not screwing in nice. It's also because a question of how long the view you took at it. So because I think big companies operating the more strategic long term in decades, not in [00:28:45] years.Chenchao: So they know that it's very important to stay within the system. And they also know the system can work against them in short term, but it can also improve in favor of them in short term. Because Chinese systems is always [00:29:00] dynamic and very flexible. And and also to be fair Chinese population is huge.Chenchao: And that's why even the price is low, even the, perfect margin percentage wise is low, but the absolute number is still [00:29:15] enormous. And I think the second point, Art, is also to mention, because we have observed a strong censorship in China, of course, but, of course, the people and patients can still access a lot of [00:29:30] information outside of China.Chenchao: And they learn and know a lot about innovation happening in China. In the pipelines and the new introduction of drugs, and they want to get it, and they want to say, Hey, why we don't have it. Why is only [00:29:45] access in the Europe and American market. It's a pressure come also from bottom, and this puts the government also in the position to even they don't want to let in maybe too many foreign drugs because they want to promote [00:30:00] the domestic brands, domestic company, also because they're expensive, they don't want to, pay from the, insurance scheme, though, but I think this is very good.Chenchao: Dynamics to help to balance the power to not [00:30:15] only one side to dictate what is sold on the market, but also to make sure and, compared to the extreme in the U. S. That only let the market a player in company to dictate the price and the scheme. So [00:30:30] I think this is what China needs, a balanced approach.Chenchao: I think Europe has a pretty good example to set when we look at Denmark, Germany where it, there's a market dictation, but also government [00:30:45] monitoring. And I think this is a way to go. Art: Yeah, that makes sense. And that's a very good point. You mentioned about it's not just necessarily a top down approach from the Chinese government that they have to be responsive to what [00:31:00]their consumers or the constituents want and they hear about drugs overseas and say, why is that not available here?Art: That's a great point. I think by this interview, you've made it very clear with the audience that this is a topic you can speak very clearly about [00:31:15] and very and a real depth. And I wonder if, 1st, I would encourage again, people to check out your company and website, this great testimonials and endorsements from the companies that you've worked with.Art: It's really impressive, very big name companies. So I can tell the work you're [00:31:30] doing as a. Has a big impact and is getting results. And I wonder if people want to reach out to you. After listening to this show, what's the best way for people to reach out to you? Is it LinkedIn or is it go to your website or all of the above?[00:31:45]Chenchao: Yeah. for for asking. Yeah. I think I'm very easy, accessible to be found on LinkedIn or very easy c.liu@silreal.com. Yeah, happy to hear your [00:32:00] feedback and your comments also on the conversation right now I'm having with art and also have help to any endeavors that might come across.Chenchao: very much. Art: Yeah, that's great. We'll put a link up to the site on the show notes as well. [00:32:15] And and I'm sure people will reach out to you. So once again, Chen Chao, thank you for coming on. It's been a pleasure talking with you.   ProducerJacob ThomasFollow UsLinkedInApple Podcasts