Good Beer Hunting

Welcome to the Good Beer Hunting Collective podcast, the show where members of our team interview each other to get a behind-the-scenes look at some of our favorite articles. I’m Ashley Rodriguez, and I produce Good Beer Hunting's podcast. In my past life, as a barista and coffee writer, one of the questions I struggled with was an essential one: what does it mean for coffee to be considered "specialty?" What makes the coffee from your local cafe different than what's in the can at your grocery store? Although there is a technical definition for "specialty" coffee, there are also a thousand other questions to ask. What do customers like? Which coffees grow well in an ever-changing global climate? How do ethics play into the definition? Likewise, I imagine "craft beer" is equally muddy—difficult to define explicitly, but something that most beer drinkers can still identify on sight. In this episode, I talk to freelance writer Paige Latham Didora. Paige is based in Minneapolis, and recently wrote a story for Good Beer Hunting about Vine Park Brewing Company, the first Hmong-American brewery in the nation. Along with telling the story of Vine Park's founding—from its past as a contract brewery to its new lease on life after the brand was taken over by four Hmong-American entrepreneurs—we also talk about what it means to be a craft brewery. For example, the Beer Judge Certification Program recognizes 34 styles of beer, and while it's not an exhaustive catalog, roughly half the styles that are recognized are European in origin. Where does that leave beer styles from other parts of the world—like Asian Rice Lager, in this case—not just in terms of representation, but in regard to the identity or value we assign them? Paige's article not only tells the story of an upstart brewery, but pushes the reader to think critically about how definitions are made, and what it means to be a craft brewer. But first, I spend a little time getting to know Paige better, learning what drew her to Vine Park and its founders, and talking about how to make a beer menu that's designed to serve a specific community. Here's Paige.

It’s no exaggeration to say that the arrival of COVID-19 has completely upended the beer industry. Breweries large and small have had to radically change their approach in order to survive the pandemic. But these changes prompted a major question: why have beer businesses been so willing to overhaul the way things have always been when faced with economic issues, but so reluctant to address long-standing social issues within the industry, like its lack of inclusion and equity? These imbalances came into sharper focus once the recent Black Lives Matter protests, sparked by the death of George Floyd, shone an even brighter light on the deep-rooted prejudices that oppressed people, and specifically Black people, have always faced in the United States. Neither the pandemic nor protests illuminated fresh injustices. Instead, they highlighted the inherent racism and cracks in the system, and made them impossible for anyone to claim ignorance of. This led to the three-part series published on Good Beer Hunting: The Time is Now. Part 1 of the series dives into the business of beer, which journalist Mike Jordan unpacks by explaining the long history of racial inequality in small business, and how it has significantly hindered non-white folks’ ability to gain footholds in entrepreneurship. Part 2 discusses the culture of beer, which former beer industry analytical chemist and equity advocate Toni Boyce unflinchingly examines before Part 3, which looks to the future of beer and what our responsibilities are in working towards a more equitable future. Dr. J. Nikol Jackson-Beckham, the diversity ambassador for the Brewers Association (or the BA) and the founder and executive director of Craft by EDU, leverages her vast experience of working towards that future in the final article. If you haven’t read Parts 1 through 3, I encourage you to dive into those before listening to this podcast conversation. I’m joined by Toni and Mike, as well as Good Beer Hunting Editor-in-Chief Claire Bullen (who chimes in several times during this discussion) to discuss the piece in its entirety—what we learned, what we’ve experienced, and where we go from here. Dr. J. is currently on a sabbatical, so while she was unable to participate in the podcast, we reference her work and suggestions throughout the conversation. This is Toni Boyce and Mike Jordan, listen in.

I’m Bryan Roth, and you’re listening to the Good Beer Hunting podcast. We talk a lot about successes in these episodes. Challenges overcome, exciting innovations, and new approaches. But it’s rare we focus on failures. In this period of worry about health and financial hardship for businesses, it’s inevitable the beer industry will be having more conversations than usual about things that go wrong. That idea is at the center of this episode. In November 2017, we published a marathon conversation with Erik Lars Myers, then the founder and CEO of Mystery Brewing in Hillsborough, North Carolina. At the time, his early-2010s model of a rapidly changing portfolio of beers and taproom-focused sales was ever-so-slightly ahead of the time. I called him a futurist, but as life would prove, the future wasn’t set to include Mystery. Myers closed the brewery in 2018 amidst a slew of equipment malfunctions, bad luck, and, as you’ll hear from him directly, some poor business decisions. His experience of losing a company he’d built—and built with people he came to love—was devastating. But as you’ll hear, those events may also have been affirming. In the strange way that life tends to weave together good and bad, the closure sent him on a new path he’s since come to appreciate. Myers is back on the podcast this time as director of brewing operations for Durham, North Carolina’s Fullsteam Brewery. We won’t be talking about beer styles and recipes, but rather reflecting on what happened to him and how his experiences are being echoed today, at a time when the coronavirus pandemic is creating daily hardships for breweries all over. As you listen to Myers and hear how things change for businesses, consider this. Failure is hard, it is unpleasant … and it hurts. But so often, in the end, it’s also tied to what we come to see as success. Or, at least, growth. I hope Myers’ story offers some context and affirmation that, even when things go wrong, and hard lessons are learned, that isn’t necessarily the end. This is Erik Lars Myers of Fullsteam Brewery. Listen in.

Welcome to the Good Beer Hunting Collective podcast, the show where members of our team interview each other to get a behind-the-scenes look at some of our favorite articles. I’m Ashley Rodriguez, and I produce Good Beer Hunting's podcast. Jamaal Lemon is a writer, photographer, podcaster, and GBH contributor, and he wrote his piece, “Mutated Anxieties — Living (and Parenting) While Black in the Face of Law Enforcement and COVID-19,” in under an hour. It’s impressive enough to write a full-length article in such little time, but even more so because the connections Jamaal makes are incredibly deep and nuanced—between United States history, his own lineage, protests for civil rights, and the disproportionate effects of COVID-19 on Black people in America—it’s all in this story. In this episode, I talk to Jamaal about what it took to write a piece that’s so personal, and we delve into his background as a storyteller and educator, and how teaching others about the world around you forces you to think differently about how to layer a story. Building connections and talking in broad strokes to illuminate a point are strategies that naturally manifested in this story, and that’s in no small part because of who Jamaal is. Before we talk about his piece, we’ll start at the beginning, tracing his background in craft beer and how he got into writing and media. Here’s Jamaal.

I’m Ashley Rodriguez, and you’re listening to the Good Beer Hunting podcast. A few months ago—right after the pandemic started changing our lives, and businesses across the United States began closing their doors—I wrote an article about some of my favorite local places. I wanted to know how they were adjusting to the unprecedented circumstances. Things felt so serious at the time, just days after shelter-in-place orders were announced, and before the word “quarantine” was an everyday part of our collective vocabulary. But here we are. It’s July 2020, and it doesn’t look like this situation has an end in the immediate future. One of the places I visited was Middle Brow Beer Co., which is in my neighborhood of Logan Square, Chicago. I talked to one of the co-owners, Pete Ternes. And I remember him mentioning something about the coronavirus, and knowing that this would radically change the way we operate in the world. It seems almost prophetic, looking back at that conversation four months later. And it’s been fascinating seeing how Middle Brow, which is a small neighborhood brewery and pizza shop, has also evolved and adapted during that time. Today I’m sitting with two of the partners at Middle Brow, Pete, who I mentioned above, and Polly Nevins. Middle Brow opened its brick-and-mortar retail space in January 2019, but has been brewing wild ales in Chicago for almost a decade. In a way, both its newness and experience are helping the business weather this tumultuous time. Because the space is new, the owners have also been able to change their business, shifting almost seamlessly from a vibrant restaurant and brewpub to a few different iterations of a to-go pizza place and community grocery store. The model evolves in real-time in response to the needs of the neighborhood. The owners’ experience has also given them the confidence to brew wild and weird beers during a pandemic—beers that maybe benefit from having a bartender tell you more about them. Part of that is the trust they’ve instilled in their staff, and part of that comes from the trust they’ve built with their neighbors. Middle Brow doesn’t feel like a destination brewery—you wouldn’t see people lining up for the next hype can release. But what you will see is a business that takes its responsibility as a leader in the community seriously. They’ve recently announced a no-tipping policy to create wage equity among their front- and back-of-house staff, and have been clear on their political beliefs, including supporting the Black Lives Matter movement, donating food, implementing a “buy a loaf, give a loaf” bread program, and supporting local organizations working within their community. This is Polly Nevins and Pete Ternes of Middle Brow Beer Co. Listen in.

The last several months have been tough for businesses and organizations across beer, as COVID-19 has forced locations to close, and as resulting financial hardships have become more serious every month. In recent weeks, U.S. beer—like much of the country—has also placed increasing emphasis on acknowledging issues of systemic racism and social injustice. We’ve covered a host of these stories in the written version of Sightlines, and in this podcast, we’re focusing on one other piece of the puzzle. Lately, calls have resonated across social media and beer publications for greater transparency and action from the Brewers Association, a national trade group that represents “small and independent” breweries. Specifically, the focus has rested on the BA’s leadership, and we’re following the journey of a few key individuals who’ve struggled to get answers from Bob Pease, president and CEO of the Brewers Association. We’ll hear from three people in this episode. In the first half, we’re going to talk to Toni Boyce, a writer who’s covered the intersection of beer and race, and Bret Kollmann Baker, head of brewing operations at Cincinnati, Ohio’s Urban Artifact brewery. We’ll talk about what happened when they got the chance to talk to Bob, will discuss issues of race in beer, and air some grievances. In the second half, we’ll hear from April Boyce, a vocal beer enthusiast and Toni’s wife, who has spent most of the past month trying to get the Brewers Association and Bob Pease to interact with her on Twitter to no avail. First, some backstory: Good Beer Hunting recently reported on the Brewers Association’s decision to lay off key staff, as well as its recent hire of a new general counsel, which included the publication of publicly available salary information for Bob Pease and others. That, along with what Toni and Bret saw as a less-than-enthusiastic response from the BA regarding racism and injustice following the death of George Floyd and nationwide protests, pushed Bret to post an angry response on Twitter that eventually led to Pease reaching out to schedule a phone call to talk about Bret’s reaction. Bret, who is a white man, invited Toni, a Black woman, to the call because he didn’t think it was right for two white guys to hash out issues of race. That’s where we’ll pick things up. This is the Sightlines podcast. Listen in.

I’m Michael Kiser, and you’re listening to the Good Beer Hunting podcast. Ah, to be in the sunny mountains of Costa Rica again: travel seems like part of a future I’m not willing to get my hopes up about just yet. But surely, someday, we’ll all be back at it. Like most of us, I haven’t been on a plane since this past March. But just prior to the lockdown, I had one of the most intense and educational travel experiences in some time. Just as we wrapped up our annual Uppers & Downers festival celebrating all things beer, spirits, coffee, and cocktails, I found myself on a flight to Costa Rica. Our destination was a tucked-away coffee farm in the mountains just outside San José. With me were two friends: Ryan Knapp of Madcap Coffee in Grand Rapids, Michigan and Ryan Burk of Angry Orchard cider (specifically, their Innovation Cider House in Walden, New York). Years ago, when Uppers & Downers first launched, these two collaborated to make a cider with cascara: the skin and fleshy part of the coffee fruit that’s traditionally discarded or used for fertilizer. The result was a delightful blend of fruit-forward cider and the tannic, hibiscus-like funk of the cascara. For years, we’ve talked about this experiment becoming a real thing: a cider you can drink in a bar or buy off the shelf. A culmination of years of experimentation, relationship-building, and mutual education. And this trip was how it was all coming true. We were going to Costa Rica to source the cascara. There’s only one farm in the country producing a food-grade cascara—a special process, all done indoors, where the fruit and skin are separated from the bean and are laid out on screens and stacked to dry into a kind of fruit leather. The organic coffee farm in question, Santa Lucia, is owned and operated by the Perez family. It was founded by the father, Ricardo Perez—who himself is a third-generation farmer—and more recently is run in cooperation with his youngest daughter, Mariana. In this four-way discussion, we’ll talk about the history of the collaboration, the farm’s unique perspective, labor practices and equity across all three industries, and the ways in which an appreciation of each other’s crafts create a deeper meaning in the end product. This is Ryan Burk, Ryan Knapp, and Mariana Perez. Listen in.

Welcome to this episode of the Sightlines podcast. I’m Bryan Roth. This podcast is set up a little differently than usual. It’s part of Good Beer Hunting’s content for Sightlines Premium, our insights-driven professional community, and subscription newsletter that helps industry decision-makers grow their businesses. Today, we’re going to hear from Andrew Emerton, specialty brand manager for New Belgium Brewing Company. In this chat, Andrew and I are talking e-commerce, which has become a pivotal part of sales during COVID-19, whether it's online shops created by a nanobreweries or nationally known companies selling over delivery platforms like Drizly. Discussions of these timely and relevant topics are what drives our content on Sightlines Premium, and like previous COVID-19 coverage we’ve published in text form, we wanted to make a shortened, edited version of my talk with Andrew available to all as a way to help anyone who can benefit from the insight. As part of New Belgium, Andrew has done plenty of research on what works, and best practices when it comes to selling beer online. That’s going to drive the highlights you’ll hear, as we touch on everything from creating a web shop, building a brand that resonates from real life to the digital world, and how price plays a factor in these sales. There’s also the matter of where to sell or promote, from app-based delivery services to Instagram. If you’re interested in how this change is happening for breweries, or if you’re someone at a brewery making these decisions right now, Andrew’s insights are what you need to hear. And while this portion of my conversation with him is free in this episode, Sightlines Premium subscribers have access to the full, unedited version. As a member and ambassador expert for Sightlines Premium, Andrew is also a part of our subscriber community, sharing expertise on this topic and others in our dedicated community forum and via video chats with fellow subscribers. If you like what you hear, learn more at goodbeerhunting.com/sightlines-premium. Future Sightlines Premium audio will be subscriber-only. Alright, let’s get to the conversation with Andrew. As we kick off, Andrew shares that New Belgium has seen such promise in e-commerce that it has actually shifted a staff member into a full-time, direct-to-consumer role, and that’s because the beer industry hasn't really used this route to sales before because of legal restrictions. In the meantime, New Belgium has used trial and error to figure out what works. Lucky for us, those lessons and takeaways are already available to learn from. This is Andrew Emerton of New Belgium Brewing. Listen in.

Welcome to the Good Beer Hunting Collective podcast, the show where members of our team interview each other to get a behind-the-scenes look at some of our favorite articles. I’m Ashley Rodriguez, and I produce Good Beer Hunting's podcast. One of the most exciting parts of being at Good Beer Hunting is working with new authors. It’s thrilling to see a new corner of the beer world, or a new perspective on something I thought I knew well, told through another lens. And it’s equally exciting to see others respond to the stories our first-time authors choose to tell. In this episode, I’m chatting with Lucy Corne, a freelance beer writer based in Cape Town, South Africa. Lucy wrote an article as part of our Mother of Invention series, made in partnership with Guinness, about the reemergence of traditional beer styles in South Africa. In this piece, she details how craft brewing enthusiasts are reclaiming traditional brewing styles—like umqombothi, a sorghum-based, wild-fermented beer—and throughout this interview, we talk about how local beer identities are made and how information gets passed along. Because traditional sorghum beer is often brewed inside peoples’ homes, it can be difficult to trace its history—but there are lots of folks attempting to highlight its origins. Lucy also runs a blog called The Brewmistress, where she’s chronicled the effects of COVID-19 on the South African craft beer scene, including the rise in homebrewing after a nationwide ban on the sale of alcohol and tobacco went into effect in late March. Her writing on the subject should resonate far and wide, given that, in this current moment, there’s no part of the beer world that hasn’t been touched by the coronavirus. Here’s Lucy.

Today’s guest, Joey Redner, is special to me on a variety of levels. He’s a brewery founder I’ve long admired, having started and grown Cigar City Brewing into one of the strongest brands of the second wave of craft brewing—and having done so with very little experience. Instead, he used his instincts as a writer to navigate the business from a journalist’s perspective before he ever invested in concrete and steel. Something about that background always seemed to express itself in a worldview that I found quite rare within the world of craft brewing—and which has proven effective in unique ways. Joey always seems to be an active observer—forever a note-taker and learner—and constantly sizes up people, opportunities, and the direction the narrative is going next. I first met him on a white-water raft going down the Colorado River in the Grand Canyon along with a host of other brewery owners. That trip was part of the Sierra Nevada Beer Camp bus tour, which went cross-country from Chico to Asheville in 2014. From those wild times to more practical endeavors—like working alongside the strategy and marketing teams in Florida as they launched Cigar City Lager, or scaling up toward an eventual acquisition and alignment with the CANarchy group—all have contributed to my respect and admiration for Joey and his leadership. But we’ve never sat down to record. So why now? Well, in addition to being curious about the implications of his strategic alignment with CANarchy, and its unique resilience during the pandemic, I also recently learned that Joey had once suffered from a life-threatening coronavirus infection himself—years ago before anyone had really heard of it. And that experience, as scary and severe as it was, has given him a very unique vantage point for the social, cultural, and political environment we’re all finding our way through right now—because for him, none of those factors existed. There were no anti-maskers or shutdowns or government stimulus and temporary alcohol laws we all associate with the virus now. For him it was radically simple—it was life or death. This is Joey Redner of Cigar City Brewing and CANarchy. Listen in.