

Ben Yeoh Chats
Benjamin Yeoh
Ben Yeoh chats to a variety of thinkers and doers about their curiosities, ideas and passions.
If you are curious about the world this show is for you.
I have extended conversations across humanities and science with artists, philosophers, writers, theatre makers, activists, economists and all walks of life.
Disclaimer: Personal podcast, no organisational affiliation or endorsement.
If you are curious about the world this show is for you.
I have extended conversations across humanities and science with artists, philosophers, writers, theatre makers, activists, economists and all walks of life.
Disclaimer: Personal podcast, no organisational affiliation or endorsement.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Nov 1, 2024 • 1h 16min
Peter Gray: Transforming Education, Play, Parenting and Self-Directed Learning
Peter Gray is a psychologist and author of Free to Learn. For many years, he has been studying the importance of play.
Gray discusses his perspective on the ideal education system, which he believes should be a bottom-up movement rather than a top-down imposition. He emphasizes the importance of self-directed education where children have the freedom to follow their curiosity and interests. Gray explains how traditional schooling stifles curiosity and playfulness, and traces the historical roots of the current education system. He also highlights the sociopolitical factors that have contributed to the decline of children's mental health, arguing against the popular notion that social media is the primary cause. Additionally, the conversation touches on the impact of economic inequality on parenting styles and child freedom. Gray shares his current projects, including initiatives aimed at encouraging more free play in schools and educating pediatricians on the importance of play, while offering practical advice for parents to support their children's independence and curiosity.
Transcript and links here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2024/11/1/peter-gray-transforming-education-play-self-directed-learning-parenting-podcast
"If offered the opportunity to redesign the entire educational system as a top-down thing, me being the czar of education and telling everybody else what they should do, I would decline the offer...it really has to emerge from the bottom up."
"Education works best when the people being educated are in charge of it... Children are biologically designed to learn through exploration, through play."
"Our school system suppresses curiosity and playfulness...the two primary biological educative drives in children."
"Ask your child: 'What would you like to do that you haven’t done before that might be a little bit frightening but that you’d really like to try?' It’s how children build courage and how parents build trust."
Contents
00:19 Redesigning the Education System
01:41 The Role of Curiosity and Play in Learning
05:55 Historical Context of Traditional Schooling
08:26 Children's Rights and Freedom Over Time
12:11 Cultural Shifts and Parental Concerns
15:28 Impact of Economic Inequality on Parenting
18:53 Rise of Stranger Danger and Overprotectiveness
28:14 Common Core and the Mental Health Crisis
38:28 The Evolution of Reading and Technology
41:17 Balancing Screen Time and Real Life
43:12 Reflections on 'Free to Learn'
45:07 Evolutionary Psychology and Its Impact
50:28 Advice for a Fulfilling Retirement
01:00:04 Creative Processes and Inspirations
01:05:45 Current Projects and Parenting Advice

Oct 18, 2024 • 1h 3min
Julia Garayo Willemyns: Policy Ideas, Progress, Growth, AI, Talent, human flourishing
Julia Garayo Willemyns, co-director of the think tank UK Day One, dives into powerful policy ideas aimed at enhancing the UK's future. She discusses the urgent need for lead poisoning remediation in aging homes as a public health initiative with economic implications. The conversation also emphasizes prioritizing AI in the UK's industrial strategy, balancing ethical concerns with innovation. Additionally, Julia reflects on the dynamics of entrepreneurship, the importance of mentorship, and how embracing diverse cultural perspectives can drive societal progress.

Sep 20, 2024 • 1h 16min
Julian Gough: Minecraft End Poem, Evolution Of The Universe, Being Creative, working in public, writing childrens' books
Julian Gough is an award-winning writer and musician. We explore the breadth of his creative journey, from crafting the 'End Poem' in Minecraft to writing children's books and rock band experiences.
Transcript and links here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2024/9/20/julian-gough-minecraft-end-poem-evolution-of-the-universe-being-creative-podcast
We discuss his latest project 'The Egg and the Rock,' which investigates the universe's evolutionary complexity, paralleling biological evolution, and its implications on life, consciousness, and AI.
This conversation extends to a critical reflection on current scientific approaches, the importance of interdisciplinary thinking and writing in public and creative processes.
“…the universe does love us, and we are love, in a way. I think love is a kind of an interface with the universe. You can think of love as our interface with the universe. Love, if you are loving and loved, you're probably living correctly. The way in which you're aligned to the universe is good. It's a feedback mechanism."
Contents:
The Creation and Impact of Minecraft's End Poem
Julian's Rock Band Days
Writing Children's Stories: Rabbit and Bear
Julian's Writing Process
The Goat Bubble: A Satirical Play
Exploring the Universe's Evolution
Building Complexity from Simplicity
The Eternal Existence of Matter and Time
The Fermi Paradox and Alien Life
Darwinian Evolution of Universes
The Role of Intelligent Life in the Universe
Predicting the Early Universe
Writing in Public and Creative Processes
The Egg and the Rock: An Evolutionary Analogy
Advice for Future Thinkers and Creatives

Aug 2, 2024 • 54min
Ruth Chang: How to make Hard Choices, philosophy, agency and commitment
Ruth Chang is a prominent philosopher known for her work in decision theory, practical reason, and moral philosophy. She is currently a professor at the University of Oxford, holding the Chair of Jurisprudence. She is well known for her theory of "hard choices," where she argues that many choices are not determined by objective reasons but instead involve values that are incommensurable.
Transcript and links here: www.thendobetter.com/arts/2024/8/2/ruth-chang-making-hard-choices-philosophy-agency-commitment-derek-parfit-podcast
The podcast discussion delves into the inadequacy of the traditional trichotomous framework—better, worse, or equal—in evaluating values and making decisions. Chang argues for recognizing 'hard choices' as situations where options are qualitatively different yet equally viable, introducing the concept of 'par'. This idea is applied to various scenarios, from career decisions to healthcare dilemmas, and even the design of AI systems. Chang highlights the importance of human agency in making commitments when faced with hard choices, offering a framework to help individuals become the authors of their own lives. Furthermore, Chang shares insights about her current projects aimed at rectifying fundamental misunderstandings about value in AI design, advocating for a more nuanced and human-aligned approach to machine learning. The episode also touches on the philosophical influences of Derek Parfit and explores concepts like effective altruism, transformative experiences, and the value of commitment in living a meaningful life.
Understanding Hard Choices
Applying Hard Choices to Careers
Rational Agency and Commitment
AI and Hard Choices
Philosophical Influences and Effective Altruism
Current Projects and Life Advice
"To become the author of your life, ascertain what matters, understand how alternatives relate to what matters, tally up pros and cons, and then open yourself up to the possibility of commitment. Realize yourself by making new reasons for your choice."

Jun 14, 2024 • 1h 14min
Hansong Li: China, political economy, intellectual history, Tangut and Hamilton, the Musical
Political theorist Hansong Li discusses Tangut language, Chinese philosophy, global economic thought, and Hamilton the Musical. From historical contexts to modern development, the conversation explores international aid, East vs. West ideologies, and the societal impact of musical theatre worldwide.

May 14, 2024 • 1h 10min
Rasheed Griffith: Progress, Caribbean, Policy, Food, Music, Talent Assessment, Culture
Rasheed Griffith discusses obstacles to progress in the Caribbean, advocating for public sector reform to attract talent and improve policy implementation. He suggests dollarization for all Caribbean countries and highlights the cultural significance of Caribbean cuisine. The conversation explores economic measures, policy options, and delves into Caribbean economic history and colonial theory.

14 snips
Apr 19, 2024 • 1h 22min
Henry Oliver: Late Bloomers, Second Act, Hidden Talent, Biography, John Stuart Mill
A conversation with Henry Oliver, author of 'A Second Act', exploring the concept of late bloomers. Transcript here.
Oliver elaborates on societal pressures, hidden talents, and how these impact individual successes at various life stages, advocating for a broader recognition of potential beyond conventional timelines.
The dialogue includes themes such as the significance of networks, the role of luck, and the historical context of late blooming, challenging prevailing notions of talent and achievement.
Following this, the conversation delves into the philosophical contributions of John Stuart Mill, particularly focusing on his expansion of utilitarianism and its inadvertent influence on contemporary moral behaviors like vegetarianism. It contrasts Mill’s stance on liberty and value measurement with other philosophers and highlights the importance of engaging with diverse perspectives for personal growth. The chat connects Mill’s philosophies to present-day issues.
We end on Henry’s advice: the importance of personalized approaches to absorbing content, seeking expertise, the application of tailored advice over generic guidance; and to ignore those who do not have recent advice experience.
On Hidden Talents and Societal Barriers:
"So in the case of someone just happens to emerge later, and in the case of someone has been held back, I would call that hidden both times. Because very often when you've been held back by your circumstances, people like actually cannot see your talents. And so they are hidden, not in the sense that you've kept them in, or you were scared, or whatever, but in the sense that, you could have put it on your t-shirt and people wouldn't have realized."
On Overcoming Historical Bias and Recognizing Talent:
"And obviously historically, very often that was to do with if you were a woman, if you were a person of color people just aren't going to, people literally aren't going to take that seriously. But that, to me, is interesting, it's an interesting demonstration of the fact that, You can be very confident that you know how to find talent, and that you know who's a good chap and who would be good at this job, and be completely blind to what is right in front of you."
Contents:
00:13 Learning from Henry’s mother
01:01 Exploring Hidden Talents and Societal Constraints
03:34 The Nuances of Midlife Crises and Opportunities for Growth
07:45 The Power of Networks and Circumstances in Shaping Late Bloomers
10:23 Margaret Thatcher: A Case Study in Late Blooming
16:20 Seizing Luck and the Importance of Being Prepared
21:32 The Role of Networks in Realizing Potential
30:20 Addressing Societal Biases and Embracing Equality of Opportunity
34:29 Rethinking Talent: Early Bloomers vs. Late Bloomers
42:55 The Fluidity of Intelligence and the Potential for Growth
45:29 Exploring Misunderstood Characters in Literature
45:56 Audrey Sutherland: The Unrecognized Kayaking Legend
47:09 Malcolm X: A Misunderstood Figure in History
48:46 The Ones That Didn't Make the Cut: Missed Profiles
51:28 The Writing Process: Insights and Personal Habits
54:51 The Fascinating World of London's Churches
59:36 Underrated and Overrated: A Deep Dive into Mindsets and Philosophies
01:18:23 Current Projects and Life Advice

Mar 1, 2024 • 48min
Alyssa Gilbert: Climate Tech Innovation, Policy, Technology
Alyssa Gilbert, the director of the Center for Climate Change Innovation at the Grantham Institute, talks about the current gaps in climate technology investments. She discusses her research into areas that are currently underfunded, including transport and energy. She also covers the importance of energy efficiency, especially in relation to the built environment. Alyssa emphasizes the necessity of various models in the fight against climate change, including private sector initiatives, philanthropy, and governmental grants - and highlights the need for a diverse range of solutions. She also speaks about the innovation within the London climate tech ecosystem and shares her perspective on various topics including carbon offsets, behavior change, and geoengineering.
Transcript/Video here: https://www.thendobetter.com/investing/2024/3/1/alyssa-gilbert-climate-tech-innovation-policy-technology-podcast
00:15 Discussion on Climate Technology Investment
01:15 Exploring Areas of Underinvestment in Climate Change
01:54 Climate Change Adaptation and Innovation
02:23 The Role of Heavy Industry in Climate Change
03:15 Climate Change Policies and Energy Efficiency
05:10 Challenges in Implementing Energy Efficiency
08:09 Debate on Degrowth vs Techno-optimism
11:34 Role of Venture Capital and Philanthropy in Climate Change
16:11 London's Climate Tech Ecosystem
21:58 Pitching Climate Change Ideas
24:17 Role of Big Companies in Climate Change Innovation
25:49 The Importance of Corporate Involvement in Innovation
26:26 A Glimpse into a Day in the Life of a Climate Innovator
29:13 Overrated or Underrated: A Discussion on Climate Solutions
40:48 Exciting Projects on the Horizon
44:02 Advice for Those Interested in Climate Action

Feb 14, 2024 • 55min
Garrett Graff: Aliens, Mysteries Of UFOs, Watergate, 9/11, Government Trust
Garrett Graff, a writer and historian who specializes in 'near history', discusses his book, 'UFO', about the US government's search for alien life. He touches upon how we often misunderstand UFO sightings, suggesting they could be due to a mix of physical anomalies and governmental or adversary secret flight technologies. Graff also shares his belief in the possibility of alien civilizations, arguing probabilities suggest the existence of life outside Earth. He then relates UFO conspiracies to a societal mistrust in government and institutions, tying it back to events like the Watergate scandal. Graff finally introduces his forthcoming oral history book on D-Day, emphasizing how his work emphasizes explaining and organizing complex events in an understandable and comprehensive way.
"When people ask 'do UFOs?'...That's not actually the question that they mean. The question that they really mean is, 'are we alone?' Because the truth of the matter is of course UFOs exist. All a UFO is an unidentified flying object, and there are things out there that we don't know what they are. Whether those are extraterrestrial is a very different question and potentially unrelated to the question of, are there extraterrestrials."
Transcript and video available here: https://www.thendobetter.com/arts/2024/2/14/garrett-graff-aliens-mysteries-of-ufos-watergate-911-government-trust-podcast
Contents:
00:31 Exploring the Mysteries of UFOs
03:05 The Probability of Alien Life
06:21 The Government's Role in UFO Research
19:03 The Impact of Conspiracy Theories
29:40 The Connection Between UFOs and Politics
33:28 The Importance of Trust in Government
47:21 The Writing Process and Future Projects

Jan 26, 2024 • 1h 8min
Hannah Ritchie: Not the End of the World, sustainability, climate, progress
Data scientist Hannah Ritchie challenges the idea of environmental doom, focusing on progress in sustainability and climate change. She discusses the crucial role of technology, lifting people out of poverty, and dealing with climate anxiety. Her work emphasizes the balance between environmental change and human impact for a sustainable planet.


