Overtired

In which Overtired becomes a Miley Cyrus podcast. Plus the usual diversions into television and your favorite hosts’ favorite apps. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe — from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Miley Cyrus – We Can’t Stop X Where Is My Mind Miley Cyrus – Wrecking Ball X Nothing Compares 2 U Backyard Sessions Backyard Sessions on YouTube Only Murders in the Building The Dead Don’t Die The Dead Don’t Die clip w/ Selena Gomez Life & Beth Zotero Zotero Credits Affinity Photo Affinity Designer Affinity Publisher Paint.net Acorn Pixelmator iThoughts X MindMeister Kaleidoscope Ringo Starr Art Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript 281: No One Ever Respected Billy Ray Cyrus [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to over tired. I’m Christina Warren joined as always by Brett sharp, stra and Jeff. Uh, fuck. Now I can’t, I can sever Severen. Gunzel Severen. Gunzel [00:00:15] Jeff: edit. Edit. [00:00:18] Brett: It’s [00:00:18] Christina: severance console, right? Did I [00:00:20] Brett: That is correct. Yes, [00:00:22] Jeff: Yes. Yes, [00:00:23] Christina: Fuck. I’m the worst? Um, uh we’re well, we’re okay. We’re we’re back after, after like three weeks apart, the trio is back together. Yay. [00:00:33] Brett: Yeah. [00:00:34] Jeff: everybody. [00:00:35] Brett: Oh, you’re not going to retake that. We’re just going to roll with that. [00:00:38] Jeff: Yeah, well, [00:00:39] Christina: I mean, I [00:00:41] Brett: Yes, Jeff. Jeff. Fuck. All right. [00:00:44] Christina: Jeff. Fuck [00:00:45] Jeff: That’s [00:00:46] Brett: All right. [00:00:46] Jeff: name from really [00:00:48] Brett: me to list you in the show notes? [00:00:50] Jeff: Hmm. Oh, [00:00:51] Christina: F um, uh, Astros Astros, I guess. Cause, cause we need it for SEO purposes. Like I’m a big fan of putting fucking headlines and, and [00:01:00] putting fucking other things. But I also know that it can like hurt your S chances. [00:01:03] Brett: I, uh, I was talking with R w w so like all the podcasts on backbeat media, not all of them, uh, a few of them get together once in a while. And we talk about how to improve podcasts. And I brought up the fact that, uh, shows like some more news with Cody Johnson do extremely sarcastic ad reads, um, that, that are actually worth watching. [00:01:32] Like, they’re, they’re very funny to me. And, and I asked if we could get away with. Writing some more comedic ad reads and, and they were down there like, yeah, if your show says, fuck all the time, and then you don’t say fucking the ad reads, it feels like a real separation from reality. And, and most sponsors are okay with it. [00:01:55] So I would have to present copy for approval. [00:02:00] And I don’t know if you’ve ever tried to write comedy in a vacuum like by yourself, but you really, you need, you need at least one other person to bounce ideas off of. Uh, so if you guys weren’t up for it, I was going to see if I could, uh, hire my coworkers, Victor and Aaron, who are very funny people, um, hire them to be my little writers’ room and we could come up with some amazing ads. [00:02:27] Jeff: an overtired writers’ room? [00:02:29] Brett: I am. [00:02:30] Jeff: its own [00:02:30] Christina: Uh, no, this is the real question is like, like, does this come out of your cut of the pay or does this [00:02:35] Brett: this would be, this would be me. This would be me. This would be my own interest and funnier [00:02:40] Christina: I don’t care. I mean, I don’t care. I’m just, I’m just [00:02:43] Brett: Like I’ve tried to punch up our ad rates a little bit here and there, but, uh, but it is, it’s hard to be funny. I’m just not that funny on my own. how, how, how’s your mental health, Jeff. [00:02:57] Jeff: Oh, I’m doing good. I just spent a [00:03:00] week, uh, up north in Northern Minnesota, um, on the shores of lake superior with my [00:03:06] Brett: Oh, all the way north. All right. [00:03:08] Christina: I was, I was, I was going to say like Northern Minnesota. Isn’t that? Just Canada. [00:03:12] Jeff: it’s basically Canada. It’s like we go to the colder place for spring break every year. Um, it’s just, uh, we have this lovely spot. That’s much cheaper because it’s not vacation season and it has all these windows that look out on the lake and you can sit in these chairs and actually all you see is water. [00:03:30] And, um, and, and it’s just lovely. And we, we, we cut internet and phones and like computers and laptops and everything to the extent that we can, which I’m the only one that sometimes dips back in. Well, besides my teenagers probably sneak back in, but, um, [00:03:47] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, I was going to say like, how, how, how does the family feel about that? Like, cause that could be. [00:03:52] Jeff: no, I mean, so this was the first year actually. So, my kids are, um, are both teenagers and this [00:04:00] was the first year where it felt like, yeah, maybe at least for one of them, like, you just need some time to just chill on your phone. Like I get it. Um, but until this time, and that was just cause it was bad weather the whole time, my bad weather, I mean, cold and cloudy and rainy and snowy, not just cold. [00:04:18] Um, but actually, so anyway, for me, like I’ve done that this is our sixth year doing that. Um, and it’s not like a big, like, you know, it’s not like let’s get away from the evils of technology. It’s just like, what happens if our main input is the sound of waves 24 hours a day for a week, right? [00:04:36] Brett: So, what does happen is that, is that good for you? [00:04:39] Jeff: I just relaxed, like I love, so I do not feel like I have to do anything when there are loud waves. [00:04:46] Cause I feel like somehow the waves are living for me. Like, they’re like, we’ll do the work over here. We’re doing the hard work, all the tumultuous stuff that’s normally going on in your head. That’s us now you just relax. And so [00:05:00] I just really let go and It’s I find it extremely easy to, um, to relax and [00:05:05] Brett: It’s like a, [00:05:06] Jeff: happy to get back on my phone. [00:05:08] Brett: it’s like a really big white noise machine. [00:05:11] Jeff: It is, it’s a perfect, in fact, my first night there, this week, I woke up in the middle of the night and I’m like, shit that I left the white noise machine. on so loud [00:05:21] Brett: Some people, some people pay a lot of money for that. [00:05:24] Jeff: Yeah, I know. [00:05:25] Brett: We S we spent a lot of technology replicating your, your wave machine. [00:05:31] Jeff: I know. And, uh, so yeah, I liked, I liked the water. I have, I have a personal relationship to that lake that goes back to my childhood. And so I’ve thrown a lot of my problems into that water and, [00:05:43] Brett: like, not like a childhood drowning experience. [00:05:45] Jeff: No, nothing like that. You can’t get in that water. It’s too goddamn cold all the time. [00:05:50] Brett: I have a friend who has an, a relative who owns like a resort up in Duluth. And, uh, and he’s allowed to go up [00:06:00] there and just take a cabin anytime in the winter. So a couple years ago we went up there in January and the high temperature was negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit. And, and I was like, fine. We’re in a cabin with a fireplace and we have internet and I’m just gonna, we’re just gonna hack for the weekend. [00:06:22] Uh, but he was going out like cross country skiing and it was like negative 50 wind chill. And he’s like, he’s like, yeah, I’ll be back in 30 minutes. And I got worried like 30 minutes later. I’m like, he’s probably an icicle somewhere out there and I’ll never find him, like the waves were coming in off of the lake and they were just freezing in like, Tide. [00:06:46] Jeff: yeah, yeah. [00:06:46] Brett: And there was this huge, like pile of just ice around the, around the lake. It was, I was surprised it wasn’t frozen all the way across what apparently huge bodies of water don’t do that. [00:06:58] Christina: Huh? [00:06:59] Jeff: [00:07:00] not that one at [00:07:00] Brett: I live in, I live in Southern Minnesota, which is land of lakes. And we have a lot of, a lot of very small bodies of water that do completely freeze over and all winter, there are pickup trucks out on the lake ice fishing. [00:07:16] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say like, like what, what, what’s the movie? Uh, oh, frozen river. Um, uh, the, the ups, you guys know the movie. [00:07:26] Jeff: no. [00:07:26] Christina: Okay. So this was, I mean, it’s actually kind of a sad, uh, film, but it’s good. It was, uh, Melissa Leo I’m I’m, uh, pretty sure she didn’t win best ask actress for it. She, um, got a best supporting actress for the fighter, but she was nominated for it. [00:07:39] It’s um, upstate New York. And it’s like a woman who is basically driving people across a frozen river, um, uh, between like Canada and the United States. She is, she’s kind of doing human trafficking a little bit. Um, and, uh, and. [00:07:54] Jeff: Is that, is there such a thing as a little bit of human trafficking, I guess [00:07:57] Brett: just, just a smudge [00:08:00] disattach. [00:08:00] Christina: well, well, like again, like I don’t want to get into the, I don’t want to like, spoil like a movie and it’s a different, it’s a completely different thing. Cause it is actually kind of a sad film, but it’s a good phone, but it makes me think of that because the whole idea is that, you know, she’s having to make these trips across, but you know, you can only go, you know, during certain times of the year, because it’s, it’s a frozen river. [00:08:20] Whereas, you know, if it’s like just a little bit like, like this time a year, you wouldn’t be able to do it because it’d be like, thought, you know, you thought enough that if you’re driving over it, like, you know, the car could fall [00:08:31] Brett: would be driving under it. [00:08:33] Christina: Exactly. [00:08:34] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental. [00:08:36] Christina: It’s pretty good. It’s pretty good. Um, so, uh, in disclosure to listeners, uh, we actually recorded our previous week’s episode, like two days or like two days ago. So some of this will be kind of a rehash for, for Brett, but, um, I started a new job since we recorded last. Uh, as, as, as a trio, which is, which is great, and I’m still getting used to [00:09:00] everything. [00:09:00] Like I still am finishing like some onboarding tasks and I’m still like figuring out what the workflow is and how to work with people. And, and my mental health. I have to say, I think it’s better because I’m in this new job that I’m really excited about. And I really love the team. And, um, I’m really excited about all that stuff. [00:09:17] So that’s like giving me like an endorphin boost, but then there is, I was talking about this with a friend of mine, onboarding remote, even if it’s like a fully remote company is tough. It’s just, it’s one of those things that, um, there are still some tasks. I think that, that when you start a new job, even if, if you’re doing it like fully remote and I’ve done fully remote jobs before where I’ve onboarded, like when I started at. [00:09:43] We were all remote, but there’s just a sense, I think, um, when, especially at like a bigger company, because you Mashable, there were nine people, so it’s a little bit different than the, when you’re, you know, at a company that has a, I think, I think it had like 2,500 people right now or something. Um, [00:10:00] it it’s, um, a little bit, uh, just like. [00:10:04] They’ve done a good job, adapting the onboarding process to virtual, you know, they’ve had two years to do it, but there’s still something to be said. I think about like, being able to be around people in person, if you can, or other new people. Um, so it’s just been one of those processes where, you know, like I’m, I’m super excited. [00:10:23] My mental health is in a good place, but I’m also kind of overwhelmed and trying to kind of figure out, okay, what are all the social structures? What are the different norms? Like what’s, what’s the way that everybody, you know, acts interacts, like what are all the cold slack channels and all that stuff? [00:10:39] Um, I will say, and I was very, very proud of this because I had been, I’d had access to slack. I don’t know, like, like 15 minutes and before I was added to the Taylor swift slack. So by, by, by someone who, I didn’t even really, I might know them from Twitter, but it wasn’t one of those things where like, I was [00:11:00] even like close with them or anything. [00:11:01] And then somebody, it just immediately added me to the Taylor swift slack. And I was like, okay. My brand is strong enough that I can start a brand new job. And people immediately will just add me to the Taylor. So slack. And I was like, okay. I feel like at home, you know, [00:11:13] Brett: Does anyone does anyone to get hub listened to? [00:11:19] Christina: I don’t know. [00:11:21] Brett: That was the weirdest thing starting at Oracle was like having people contact me to say that they were overtired or systematic even listeners. And like my reputation proceeded me, but Oracle’s also, you know, a hundred thousand people. So out of that, there’s gotta be somebody who listens to your podcast. [00:11:42] Christina: Right. Yeah, I have, I have no idea. I knew when I started at Microsoft, I got a number of people who heard me or who knew me from this weekend tech who reached out and, and I even met people like for lunch and stuff, which was really nice. I met a number of people like in person on campus. [00:12:00] Um, you know, because they knew me from, from that. [00:12:02] And then I was like, I need to know people. And, and that was really helpful. And I’ve received a number of emails over the years and in like slack messages or I guess, teams messages from people when I’ve been on this speak in tech for, uh, you know, um, as a Microsoft employee, haven’t heard from anybody from GitHub yet about that. [00:12:21] And I have a feeling they’re probably some people who listen, but I doubt that it’s, it’s like that demographic, I feel like is probably more aligned to like the, the a hundred thousand like Microsoft person thing. So I don’t know. I’m sure there, there must be a couple, but I don’t. [00:12:36] Brett: To that end. I have been, [00:12:38] Jeff: you. [00:12:39] Brett: I have been thinking about I’m making this podcast nerdier. I feel like I really enjoy talking about TV and movies and music. But this gratitude list has like, it’s reminded me that there’s a whole segment of people like Jeff, who tune into podcasts to find out about new [00:13:00] apps and find out like new nerd stuff. [00:13:03] Christina: Yeah. [00:13:04] Brett: I think there’s a place for that. [00:13:06] Christina: I, 100% agree. I mean, that was kind of always the Genesis of the show, which is why Jeff is so great to be part of it with us, because it was always you and I talking about nerd shit, but also getting distracted by our pop culture. Like, I don’t even think the pop culture thing was originally part of it. [00:13:22] Like I [00:13:22] Brett: Yeah. It, it was not when we first pitched it to Dan, it was not yet a Taylor swift podcast. [00:13:29] Christina: right. It wasn’t, it’s so funny to think about it was not yet a Taylor’s with podcasts. [00:13:34] Jeff: it wasn’t even a Miley Cyrus podcast. [00:13:36] Christina: No, I was going to say that’s a great segue. Um, [00:13:39] so [00:13:40] Brett: do my mental health. What [00:13:41] Christina: yeah, I’m, I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry, Brett, [00:13:43] Brett: about me? What about my needs? You guys are like sponges and you just take and you [00:13:48] Christina: No, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. We all know that this is the Bret show. [00:13:52] Jeff: the context, in the context of being passed over, how has your mental health and apologies friend? [00:13:58] Brett: so, [00:14:00] so I’ve been depressed and, and I can tell right now my depression is showing up in the form of like, I. Like I hit a limit with doing work stuff and I don’t feel like watching TV and I don’t feel like eating and I don’t feel, I don’t even feel like jerking off. Like I just feel like doing nothing and that in that feels bad. [00:14:26] It’s not like I can take pleasure in doing nothing. It feels like I should be doing something, but I can’t. And I just end up staring at walls and that is it’s horrible. I hate it. And this is happening without a manic episode proceeding it. So I didn’t even get the fun of like a five day binge without sleep. Ah, it sucks. It sucks. And part of what happened to make it worse, like it was already happening when you know that trip to Spain, that Oracle was [00:15:00] going to send me. [00:15:00] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:15:01] Brett: And, and I hadn’t told anyone it was for sure, but I had definitely been talking about like, here’s the thing that might happen to me. And it’s so cool. [00:15:09] It’s the first time I’ve traveled outside of north America and et cetera, et cetera. And then unceremoniously. And without actually telling me I got cut from the trip and I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna air a bunch of work laundry on this show, but it, it did not sit well with me. Uh, a could be cut from a trip and B the lack of communication around it. [00:15:38] Uh, it was very, it was demoralizing. I was demoralized, which did not help my depression. Uh, so it’s, it’s been a week, you know, [00:15:50] Christina: Yeah, I’m really sorry to hear that. I’m sorry, but Amy, about the depression and the, because I know what that feels like, and I’ve, I’ve had that. It’s so weird. Like you’re describing, like [00:16:00] that is been such a consistent part of my life for the last, however long, which is a problem. And honestly, I’m like, okay, this is a good reminder for me. [00:16:08] Like, this is not normal, but, but for you, like I have, I’ve just I’m I, I have as much like empathy, because like you said, like you didn’t have the, the kickoff, like you usually, you have the, I guess, reminder that it’s going to be. Because you have the manic episode and you get the fun to that, right. You’re like, yeah, I get, I get to be, you know, cause I’ve never been manic, but I have to imagine that the way you describe it, um, in, in the other minute, people like bipolar people I’ve had in my life. [00:16:36] Um, I haven’t imagine it’s kind of like being high. [00:16:39] Brett: Yeah. It’s like being high for days on this. [00:16:42] Christina: Right. So, you know, there’s a certain like, [00:16:45] Brett: Not like being stone, but like being high on like cocaine. [00:16:50] Christina: That’s what I mean, that’s what I mean, like, like you have that type of, of like upper type of thing and that’s, um, obviously not a good thing to happen all the time and, and it [00:17:00] can, uh, have big problems, but I would imagine like, okay, this is one of those things you’re like, all right. [00:17:06] I at least have that aspect of it to kind of prepare before [00:17:10] Brett: Yeah. Like the depression in that case feels like you’re paying the price for something good. And it just feels like par for the course. Um, but yeah, without that, it just feels like a penalty for existing. [00:17:24] Jeff: Well, and that trip to like, it’s not just like, um, a business trip to Chicago was canceled. Like you gather yourself up in a whole different way in [00:17:34] Brett: went out, I got a passport and paid for expedited, expedited delivery on a passport. [00:17:40] Jeff: That’s right. [00:17:42] Brett: But, Hey, at least now I have a passport, so, and unlimited vacation time. So maybe I’ll just send myself to fucking Spain. [00:17:50] Christina: I mean, honestly, uh, you should. And, and I also, I’m sorry that that happened. I mean, like in, in corporate minutia stuff, budgets change and people [00:18:00] make various decisions, but from what you’ve told us, like, I think, I think the most egregious part, at least to me like the, the thing that I’m angriest about on your behalf is that no one even had the courtesy of telling you that you had to find out, you know, kind of secondhand. [00:18:13] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:18:13] Brett: So when sitting in a dark room, you know, what really helps, [00:18:18] Christina: What’s that? [00:18:19] Brett: window treatments, [00:18:20] Christina: Oh, something to let the light in. [00:18:23] Brett: you [00:18:23] Christina: Let, let, let, let, let the light in through the darkness. [00:18:26] Brett: Who doesn’t love to live well. Even when you’re depressed to be perfectly at ease and comfort and style hunter Douglas can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control systems. [00:18:40] So advanced that can be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. Perhaps it’s the way the shades diffuse harsh sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room, or being able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside. Maybe it’s the [00:19:00] superior insulation that the shades provide. [00:19:02] Keeping you warmer in winter cooler in summer and lowering utility. Or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it just looks and feels right? Even when you don’t, when you tap into hunter Douglas’s power view technology, your shades can be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light privacy and installation morning, noon, and night. [00:19:28] So live beautifully with hunter Douglas, enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunter douglas.com/overtired today for your free style gets smarter design guide with fresh takes creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. [00:19:48] That’s hunter douglas.com/overtired for your free design guide. [00:19:55] Christina: Fantastic. Okay. [00:19:57] Brett: Nailed, nailed that segway. Let’s go back to that [00:20:00] previous segue though. [00:20:01] Let’s Talk about Miley [00:20:01] Christina: Yeah. I was going to say, can we talk about Miley Cyrus? [00:20:03] Brett: Yeah, let’s. [00:20:05] Christina: Okay. Okay. So I sent, um, uh, last night, uh, before we recorded, I sent Brett and Jeff, um, some homework because I was listening to like Miley Cyrus just came out with a recent live album, um, I guess from her last tour. And it included a mashup of, um, we can’t stop, which has always been one of my favorite Miley Cyrus songs, even when I was going through the number of years where I, I dismissed her as a musical icon, I always, always, always loved that song. [00:20:38] Um, and in that is that interpolated with, um, uh, the pixie spirit, whereas my mind. And, um, I just like loved it. And, uh, we, while we were talking about some other stuff, but I have to like share a Mia culpa. I was wrong. What Miley Cyrus for a number of years, I dismissed her as like having [00:21:00] real musical longevity. [00:21:01] And I have not had that opinion for probably four or five years, but, but I, I feel like I need to say publicly in front of God and the podcasting gods and everyone, like, I need to be like, I was wrong. Like I wrote her off as just another kind of like Disney nepotism, whatever higher for a long time. And she is actually an incredible musician. [00:21:26] She’s an incredible artist. She’s a great performer. She’s fucking weird as hell and is very unique. And I thought it was a put on for years. I think this is why I was initially kind [00:21:35] Brett: It did, it did feel like it in her, like at the age of like 1920, she was a bit much like, it felt, it felt put on. [00:21:45] Christina: Yeah, no, you’re right. You’re right. Jeff, like who, who isn’t a bit much, but at that time it did feel fake and it was like, oh, you’re just trying to like overcompensate for being Hannah Montana. [00:21:57] And you’re, you’re trying too hard and I can’t with [00:22:00] you. And, and I’m like five years older than her. So there’s also like a weird thing with me where I’m just like, Ugh, you know, this, this girl she’s, she’s trying too hard, but, but AI, I think is genuine when I look back on it, I’m like, I actually think that you’re exactly right. [00:22:13] Like she was doing the try-hard thing the same way any 19 year old does. And B girl has some pipes and, and the musical longevity is like, is like, for real, for real, like she’s actually, I think a force. [00:22:26] Brett: I think you guys were saying, okay, so the, the song that autoplayed right after the, whereas my mind mashup was, um, [00:22:36] Christina: Wrecking [00:22:36] Brett: wrecking ball mixed with, uh, nothing compares to you by prince or Sinead, like performed by Sinead, [00:22:46] Christina: I was going to say is written by prince, but it is, everyone knows the shadow controversion [00:22:51] Brett: man, I love the prince version too, but anyway, wrecking ball was the song that turned my opinion of Miley Cyrus [00:23:00] around that song is amazing to [00:23:02] Christina: Yeah, it [00:23:03] Brett: I love it to death. And then nothing compares to you. Like when I was on tour with a punk rock band, traveling across the country in a stolen you haul, I only had like three cassette tapes with me and one of them was Sinead O’Connor. [00:23:20] Uh, with nothing compares to you. And I listened to that song so many times in the back of a smelly van with my head resting against a fucking kick drum. Like that song, [00:23:31] Jeff: your away with two follow-up questions, which part of the kick drum. [00:23:35] Brett: the big front side. [00:23:37] Jeff: Okay. And then secondly, because single or the album? [00:23:40] Brett: Did I say? Cause single, [00:23:41] Jeff: I’m asking if it was a single. [00:23:44] Brett: it was a, it was an album. [00:23:45] Jeff: Okay, got it. Got it. Got it. [00:23:46] Brett: Yeah. It was like the whole album. I forget which album that was though. Was it called nothing compares? No, [00:23:53] Jeff: Oh, God, I should know this. Jesus, [00:23:55] Brett: too. I think it had it, had [00:23:58] Jeff: Moses [00:24:00] knowledge. [00:24:00] Brett: it, had that. I am, I am asleep on your grave or whatever it was. [00:24:05] Jeff: picture it. [00:24:07] Brett: It was, yeah. I can see it too. It had her shaved head on the front [00:24:10] Christina: Yeah, cause she could. Yeah. Um, I can even see it myself and it’s and I was like [00:24:15] Brett: check the show notes. It’ll be in the show. [00:24:19] Jeff: it’s. Oh, [00:24:20] Christina: I do not want what I have. [00:24:22] Brett: Yes. That’s the one I do not want what I have not got. Um, yes, excellent album. But anyway, that, that song played next, uh, in the Miley Cyrus playlist. And I like the one you sent was amazing. That one was even better. And I think you guys said you hadn’t seen her backyard performance series. I need there’s a there that series is named and I can’t remember the name of it. [00:24:49] Uh, but she does like backyard performances on the lawn with, uh, with like music, legends, especially country music, legends, [00:25:00] and, um, w you need to find those. And if I can, if I can track them down while, while we’re talking, I will send you a link, but her voice, her voice and her musical tastes, the people she chooses to pair up with has definitely grown since the Hannah Montana days. [00:25:19] Christina: Well, and, and even from like the bangers days, cause like I always, I thought wrecking ball was a great song and I thought that, um, uh, we can’t stop. I still think like, that’s like just such a, a banger, um, uh, single, uh, pardon the pun. But, but, uh, that was also when she was like doing like the, the, you know, fileting the microphone, like, uh, on the VMAX and doing all that stuff. [00:25:40] And I was kind of like, it was like two steps forward, one step back. And so it was like, she, she, she, this is really when she was kind of annoying me, cause like I never really cared about the Hannah Montana stuff. I was like, okay, obviously you’re, you’re a teen, like you’re a tween pop star. Cause she’s a teenager. [00:25:56] But, but the audience for that music unlike, [00:26:00] um, a lot of like teen pop was actually younger than teenagers, right? Like, like teenagers, weren’t listening to Hannah Montana. Um, And people grudgingly would, would sing along to party in the USA. But, but you wouldn’t tell anyone that, um, but, but like the other stuff, I was like, oh God, this is when the songs were decent. [00:26:19] But I was like, you’re just, you know, the shadow me and Dr. Luke is writing all your, your records and this, I was wrong. This is where I was wrong. I was like, she has nothing to do with the musicality of any of this. Like even if her voice was good at or whatever, I was just like, I, I don’t, I don’t buy any of this as being her. [00:26:37] And now I’m like, no, I, she, as you said, the artist, she works with her, her sensibilities, if you’ve ever seen any of her stuff on Howard stern, um, he’s had her perform a few times. She’s really good. She did a really, really good Metallica cover recently. [00:26:52] Brett: I did hear that. Yep. [00:26:54] Christina: And, and like, and you can tell like that it’s not a put on, like, she genuinely [00:27:00] has like reverence for some of these different musicians and artists and stuff. [00:27:04] And I’m a big fan. Like I have to say I’ve like done a total 180, like I’m all in on Miley. [00:27:10] Brett: I’ll be, I’ll be honest. Like I know this is a Taylor swift podcast, but in a competition in my personal taste, not, not like total musicianship [00:27:22] Christina: Oh yeah, yeah. Totally. Yeah. [00:27:23] Brett: it, if it came down to what would I rather listen to in my car on the way home from the co-op or whatever I would pick Miley Cyrus. I really enjoy what she’s done in the last five, 10 years. [00:27:37] Christina: Yeah, I, and I, and I, and I can totally understand that. I think that, um, I think Miley is still kind of like a hits, like I think the different, right. Cause I think Taylor is an album artist and Miley is like a hits artist. But, but, but I can also say like, I can totally understand why, if you’re just wanting to listen to something in your car, like, that’s it, I will say her, um, her last album that she wrote, um, that, uh, [00:28:00] that she does a lot of the songs on tour, um, from, and whatnot, which was a, it was a one with prisoner. [00:28:05] Um, uh, what’s it called? A paper, heart, something hearts. Um, anyway, [00:28:11] Brett: I wouldn’t know, because I don’t think like I listened to individual Miley songs. Like you said, if I’m going to sit down, I’m going to listen to like folklore front to back. Cause that’s how it’s meant to happen. But Miley, I’m going to look up a video and I’m going to look up an individual song and I’m going to hear a track and it’s going to be fun and it’s going to be entertaining. [00:28:34] And I’m going to say, I love her deep breathy voice. That’s great, but I’m not going to sit down and I’m not going to buy a whole Miley Cyrus. [00:28:43] Christina: Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, and I will say, and I totally agree with that. I will say though that, um, it’s still not, she’s still absolutely like, uh, a singles artist and not an album artist, but, um, plastic carts, which was her latest record, um, is really good and, and has some [00:29:00] more introspective stuff. Um, she, she gets writing credits on it. [00:29:05] I have a feeling and I’m not saying this like, to be like this isn’t in any way denigrating because plenty of people have different talents and whatnot, but I have a feeling that her writing credits are more like the sort of thing where you get the credit. Because you’re the artist and you’re important enough. [00:29:24] And you want the writing credit than necessarily you were like the driving force behind writing the song. [00:29:29] Brett: Yeah. Did you know that when it comes to, especially like in streaming services like Spotify, if you don’t have writing credits, [00:29:38] Christina: Exactly. [00:29:39] Brett: don’t get paid. [00:29:40] Christina: Right. Right. Which is why you see Selena Gomez, who is the only other good Disney artist. Um, and, and, but I th I, I see her more as an actress, more than a, but again, [00:29:51] Brett: We’re going to talk about that in a second. [00:29:53] Christina: Yeah. But, but I, I was just gonna say, like, it’s, it’s, she’s a similar thing right. Where she gets writing credits and you’re like, Hm, [00:30:00] I don’t know. [00:30:00] And, and maybe I’m wrong on, on Miley on this, but she does have writing credits on every track on, um, um, plastic hearts, um, and actually she’s listed as lead writer. So maybe I’m wrong on that, but anyway, it’s, she’s good. [00:30:12] Jeff: she, in the tradition that her very unsatisfying father came [00:30:17] Christina: Yeah. [00:30:17] Jeff: like, what she is wonderful at is interpreting. And like that pixie song that they go into that she goes into. I mean, for whatever reason, everyone covers that particular pixie song. It’s a great song. I don’t mean for [00:30:29] Brett: It really [00:30:30] Christina: Oh, no, it is yet. [00:30:31] Jeff: full of great [00:30:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:30:33] Christina: is it’s because by club is because by [00:30:35] Jeff: Oh, that’s right. I forgot it was okay. Anyway, she, she does a beautiful job of that. You know, I had seen the backyard film of her doing, um, Jolene. [00:30:45] Christina: I had seen that one too. Yeah, that was [00:30:46] Brett: That’s that’s the series I’m talking about. Yeah, [00:30:49] Jeff: what I think is so special about that particular performance in video. [00:30:52] Is that more than at any point in her post Hannah Montana career, you see Hannah Montana as she’s singing [00:31:00] and what I, how I kind of took in the bangers days was I was like, okay, this is an annoying teenager, rebelling against something that I can’t even relate to. I don’t even know how much power it would take to rebel against all that. [00:31:13] She had to swallow from age 11 to whatever, as Hannah Montana, Right. You’re going to, there’s going to be an extinction burst. Right. Which is like, sort of what. Bangers period was, and I remember kind of looking at it almost like an older brother, like, Hey, if you get through this, you’re going to be pretty fucking cool. [00:31:31] But if you don’t get through this, this is not going to be a good end to your story. right? And, and so like, when you, what you sent last night, Christina, with the, her performance of where’s my mind, or like what’s her own song. And then she goes into where it’s like, I was just like, she’s so embodied in that performance. [00:31:49] And so like kind of behind her eyes, and then you look at Jolene, you’re like, Hey, it kind of, I mean, no one’s story is over as we’ve learned from some of the sad, recent stuff, like mark Lanigan and even [00:32:00] Chris Cornell people that like had their like peak so long ago, but had their tragic death far later. Right. Um, like I just think that this point in her story is a very sweet one to watch. I love her weirdness. I love her fucking voice and I love her as an interpreter of songs. Like that’s great. Don’t care if she wrote them or not. [00:32:19] Christina: No, I agree. I think she’s an amazing artist. Like I was just trying to say like, like, I think she’s like, I actually feel like, but what I was going to say about that album and everything you said, uh, Jeff was just like brilliant. And I wish that I could have said it myself was that was that she got more personal, like when she could, she wrote in her most recent, only she does write about her divorce and, you know, kind of like the ending of that relationship and stuff. [00:32:40] And. That also takes things into a slightly different turn for her because you, if you see people, it’s kind of like, you know, uh, uh, media concoction and, and to be clear, like she was as much of, like, I think, you know, I had as much agency with that at least to get it from the bangers stuff onward as [00:33:00] anyone else. [00:33:01] Um, but when you have kind of like that perception of someone and then you’re able to see, oh, there are, there are more like layers here, um, to, within the music. Like it it’s really interesting. [00:33:12] Jeff: Well, and when you were talking about her writing and trying to figure out like, What it means, like did she, I was very invested cause I’m like, man, if she turns out, if it turns out that she can write a song, like, holy shit, like [00:33:26] Christina: I agree. [00:33:28] Jeff: I mean, like I, cause I just have to, I just have to assume in those Disney years, it’s just one of those things, you know, without knowing, like we [00:33:35] Christina: Oh yeah. [00:33:35] Jeff: idea what that was for her and what it’s like to grow up like that. [00:33:40] If you can come out of that and also write some songs like, woo good. I celebrate you Miley Cyrus. [00:33:47] Christina: And honestly like Billy Ray Cyrus is one of the worst things ever come out of like the one hit wonder country. Boom. Right. Like it, [00:33:56] Jeff: us, he didn’t give us a little NAS X, but like what [00:33:59] Christina: I know [00:34:00] [00:34:00] Jeff: weirdly? You have Miley Cyrus and Lil NAS X, and then it like makes us fucked up triangle [00:34:04] Christina: I does. It does. It does. [00:34:07] Jeff: I did not mean to say he gave us a little NAS, X [00:34:09] Christina: No, he did. He did little now’s actually give us a little sex. I mean, technically that, that, that, uh, it, it was, it was Nicki Minaj, uh, fandom, uh, and, uh, and that, that Trent Reznor, um, uh, stem, um, but yes, you gave us who gave us a little NAS X to me, but he gave us little NASDAQ to you’re exactly right. [00:34:26] But, but like, but Billy Ray Cyrus, you know, not great, no one ever respected him. I think everybody rightfully like, looked at him. You’re like, okay, you’re selling your child. So you can have some relevancy, which I think is absolutely what happened. But they all came out of it pretty well. Also seems kind of like their family, they all like get high and like are kind of cool with each other. [00:34:50] I’m kinda like, okay, you know what? Like this is the redneck family that I would totally like, I don’t think I w I don’t think I’d want to like, live with, I don’t think I would, like when I grew up that way, but like, I would totally love [00:35:00] to go over to their house and like spend the weekends there and stuff. [00:35:04] Jeff: plus, do you know the Dolly Parton does Miley. Cyrus’s a godmother. [00:35:07] Christina: Yes. Yes. Which [00:35:09] Brett: I didn’t know that that is [00:35:11] Jeff: are actual punishments for speaking against Miley stylists, [00:35:15] Christina: yeah. I was going to say that. That’s why she, that’s why she’s allowed to cover Jolene because it’s like my, my, my, my, my, my godmother. [00:35:22] Brett: I have, I have heard some really good covers of Jolene. Jolene is fucking amazing song. [00:35:27] Jeff: actually her 45, but played at 33? It actually just sounds like a beautiful sort of indie rock folk boy song. Um, it’s, I’ll put it in the show notes. It’s a remarkable listen. Like it [00:35:44] Brett: All right. Yeah. [00:35:45] Jeff: forget instantly that you’re listening to her singing, but slower. It just sounds beautiful. [00:35:50] Brett: Do, do you put that in the show notes? Um, so it’s time for another sponsor break. Um, I feel like this is actually like one of the least offensive [00:36:00] segues we’ve ever had because we’re all, we’re all talking in. Good terms about something. Um, [00:36:06] Christina: we’re all happy about. [00:36:07] Brett: Jeff, Jeff, do you want to do a sponsor break? [00:36:11] Jeff: I would love to do a sponsor [00:36:13] Brett: you can choose whether you do simply safe or text expander. [00:36:18] Jeff: Well, no, that’s not fair. I would always choose. Well, I can’t say that. Uh, [00:36:25] Brett: They’re all paying us. [00:36:26] Jeff: is the thing. One is a thing that I would like to try. And the other is the thing that is as much a part of my life as this shitty tattoo heart on my wrist that I got when I was 22. [00:36:37] Christina: Then then I think that’s when you got to talk about. [00:36:39] Brett: Wait, like you got it or you did it yourself. [00:36:42] Jeff: My, well, my roommate, who is. [00:36:45] Uh, doing not exactly stick and poke, like he had basically an actual tattoo gun, but he was also, he just had some, some problems with his name was his name was lips. We called them lips, but it, we called them [00:37:00] the not because like he did actually, he was a kid with big lips, but like he, he had the worst smelling feet. [00:37:06] And so we called them up. This apocalypse turned into lips and he did I see you out there lips. And he did these kind of not great tattoos. And I asked, I had my heartbroken text expander, and I asked for, um, a black heart over my, my pulse on my right wrist. And, Uh, it was the most goth thing [00:37:27] Christina: I was going to say, this is the most emo shit I’ve ever heard. [00:37:30] Jeff: awesome. [00:37:31] And, and, and I still love it. It looks like a mole. Uh, you can’t tell it to tattoo, but I still love having it. It’s [00:37:37] Brett: Just just for the record. Every one of my tattoos was done by a roommate. [00:37:43] Jeff: Was done my roommate. Yeah. [00:37:44] Brett: I’ve never, I’ve never been to a tattoo parlor. And I have, I have a decent number of years. [00:37:50] Jeff: have [00:37:51] Brett: I gave someone, I gave someone a lot of practice with their tattoo gun. [00:37:56] Christina: Like the baby came very good, like tattooing because they were like, well, [00:38:00] Bredell is just let me practice. You’re like, oh, I don’t care. [00:38:02] Jeff: Yeah, exactly. Well, it used to be, it used to kind of mean something to have a tattoo. Like if you, if you encountered somebody who had tattoos, like real, like, like a lot of tattoos or something, right? Like that really told you something about them. But now I, and I was always like, oh man, I’m just not as bad ass as you, but now I’m just like, oh, I’m not as much of a sports fan as you are. I’m probably not going to get that many tattoos. It just feel like it doesn’t tell us anything about the person. That’s fine because tattoos are great. And it’s a personal thing and that’s not what text, text expander is here to talk to us about. [00:38:29] Christina: No, no, no, no, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this. [00:38:34] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:38:34] Jeff: Alright, text expander, keep it consistent and accurate with text expander in our fast paced world, things change constantly. Don’t you know, it except tattoos. Those don’t. change at all and errors in messaging often have significant consequences depending on your level of power, a text expander lets you make new approved messaging available to every team member instantly with just a few key strokes, ensuring your team remains consistent [00:39:00] current and accurate. [00:39:01] Get your message right? Every time expand content that corrects your spelling and keeps your language consistent with just the few keystrokes. Your team members will consistently know the right message for the right person at the right time without relying on memory or copy and paste over time. Hi listeners. Get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com/podcast. To learn more about text expander. [00:39:31] Brett: I’m impressed. You got the, your team, your team members will consistently know the right message because I also always read that as constantly, uh, which I’ve had to edit in that one before. [00:39:43] Jeff: yeah, yeah, [00:39:44] Brett: Nice job. Nice job. Way to, way to read the script [00:39:48] Jeff: It really feels like, I think we’ve talked about this before, but every time I read a text expanders script, it’s very clear this shift they must’ve made in the last few years [00:39:56] Brett: to teams. [00:39:57] Jeff: sort of personal yeah. [00:40:00] Personal productivity or personal, whatever to teams. and like, I, um, I just, I, I think that’s great. [00:40:07] I can imagine using it that way, but I just love it as a personal user. I [00:40:12] Brett: I think it’s aspirational. I think, I think they see a market because there is a valid use case for text expander, with a group of people like, and they built this whole sharing system this whole easy way to sync your snippets. Um, I, I’ve never worked on a team that that has sex expander, but I could easily, you know who. [00:40:36] Okay. So I’m going to tell a quick story. Back when I worked for agile at the time, it was agile bits. Um, one password, uh, Jamie had, uh, created a text mate tool that would sync texts, uh, text expander snippets. This is before text expander had, [00:41:00] uh, easy snippet, sinking and sharing, and he created a, uh, a tool that would generate text expander snippets from, I think like a CSV file. [00:41:11] And. For everyone who worked at agile had to take their turn doing customer support, no matter what your role at agile was, you, you worked customer support, especially when you were first starting. It’s how they like got your feet wet was you had to answer everyone’s questions and they had a series of text expander snippets that you could use to consistently and correctly answer people’s questions. [00:41:38] And, uh, and, and that basically is exactly what text expander wants to be. And they’ve built like an actual system that no longer requires text met hacks to do it. Uh, so yeah, I get that. I get that approach. [00:41:54] Jeff: I, um, I, every time I redo that ad read, I, I remember that I intend to, to [00:42:00] use it in our team. Um, I think it’s, it’s just on this side of power user, even as, even as incredibly user-friendly as they’ve made it. Um, that’s, that’s the one hindrance I think. [00:42:13] Brett: So [00:42:14] Christina: Yeah, sorry. No, I was going to say, I think you’re right. I think it’s like that one level of power user, unless you are going into something where you’re saying like, cause I do feel like if you had a use case, like for the team stuff where you’re like, okay, this is how we’re going to get things to work, everyone install and use this, this program. [00:42:32] You could teach people of any level to do it. And they, they would just, they would just, they wouldn’t even question. They would just be like, yep, this is what it is. But you have to have like, you have to have the power to enforce that everyone, you know, use it as part of the process, [00:42:47] Brett: All right. So we’re at, oh man. We’re just, so this is weird having video. I can like actually see your face when we talk over each other and we’re like covering our mouths. Go ahead, Jeff. Go ahead. [00:42:59] Jeff: just to say [00:43:00] that it kind of related to what you were saying, Christina, like the experience I have, cause I’m never, I mean, like I managed some contractors and stuff, but I, I really do not position myself as a boss if at all possible, because it’s not my, it’s not my ministry. Um, That’s the big issue, which is for me, when I push something like text expander, it’s like, everyone kind of sees me as the goofy computer guy, right. [00:43:24] Like, oh, another one of your crazy ass, like schemes or whatever, you know? And I get that right. Cause that where that comes from is there, like, I, it’s almost like they’re saying like, look, I don’t have the time and interest to learn literally. Sneaky things that make my life better. It’s just not how people prioritize always. [00:43:42] Right. But man, with text expander, just to close that out, like, cause we did turn this into a critique of the sponsor, which I think is very fun. Um, [00:43:51] Christina: I think that’s exactly what they were looking for. [00:43:52] Jeff: Yeah. exactly. But clearly we love them. I mean, for me, like the biggest sell when I have So people on text expander is just like, there are [00:44:00] things that, um, no longer happened to me because of text expander. [00:44:04] There are, there are, you know, there’s certain words where I always drop a semi-colon in, for whatever reason, my finger doesn’t go to the right place. Right. Like a door don’t for whatever reason is often Don semi-colon T. Never again. Right? Like, it’s just incredible how that, and like putting in dates and leave just little stuff, right? [00:44:23] Like it’s so incredibly, just a part of my life. So I will end this very long. Let’s call it a very long sponsor read, but they didn’t write our dialogue by saying this is to me, like one of the greatest tools I’ve ever had on a computer. Like it’s just, it’s so simple and beautiful. There it is. [00:44:43] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:44:43] Brett: I’m going to do one more sponsor read before we get into, like, I want to talk about TV before we get to our gratitude list. Um, and it can be brief, but I’m going to get through our, our last sponsor. Read a promise. Last one.[00:45:00] [00:45:00] Christina: Do you need me to do this one? [00:45:01] Brett: Um, do you want to, okay. Rock and roll, Christina. You’re you’re on the, uh, you’re on the next slide. [00:45:09] Christina: All right. So what do you S news PC magazine and popular science have in common? Well, they’ve all ranked simply safe home security as the best home security of at 2021. In fact, us news just named simply saved the best home security of 2022 as well, and simply safe protects your whole home around the clock, every door, every window and room. [00:45:33] And it’s backed by the best 24 7 professional monitoring in the business. Ready to dispatch police firefighters, or EMT to your home and with a comprehensive set of sensors and cameras, including the all-new wireless outdoor security camera. You always know what’s going on inside and outside of your home. [00:45:52] Simply safe is less than a dollar a day, and you can set it up in around 30 minutes and it’s always simple to use. [00:46:00] Simply safe, protects over a million homes in the United States alone, and yours should be one of them. There’s never a long-term contract. You can even try it for 60 days. Risk-free to see if you like it. [00:46:10] And if you don’t just send it back free of charge, you can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/overtired. [00:46:37] Selena Segue [00:46:37] Brett: can I segue Selena Gomez and do something? [00:46:41] Christina: Yes, please. Because that’s a [00:46:43] Jeff: with Selema Comez [00:46:44] Brett: Have you guys, have you guys seen only murders in the building? I’m really enjoying. I’m only, I think I’m on episode four, but I am really enjoying that show. [00:46:55] Christina: Yes. Okay. I, I, I think that I might’ve, I thought that I mentioned it on a [00:47:00] previous show. Um, but yes, only murders in the building is awesome. It’s coming back for a second season in June, I think. And, uh, yeah, it’s great. [00:47:10] Brett: We’ll see if they give it three seasons or not, but it is thus far. Very good. Have you seen the Jeff. [00:47:16] Jeff: I okay. I watched the first two episodes and it, it had, it was given me like Wobegon vibes. Uh, and, and I am been told by many friends that I did not go far enough and [00:47:29] Christina: No, [00:47:29] Jeff: really love it. I love everybody involved. I mean, No, [00:47:32] problem there, [00:47:33] Brett: What you got, you got far enough to see that all the main characters have some kind of like, I won’t call it ulterior motives, but there’s, there’s a lot of mystery too. [00:47:44] Jeff: think I did get far [00:47:46] Brett: Yeah, you gotta, you gotta go farther. You gotta, [00:47:49] Jeff: love Selena Gomez. I just watched for the third time, uh, the movie, um, oh my God. It’s a Jim Jarmusch zombie movie, [00:47:58] Brett: oh, only [00:48:00] the D or the dead. Yeah. I know what you’re talking about. [00:48:04] Jeff: got to get, I keep them. I did this. It’s even a sternal Simpson song. [00:48:08] Brett: she in that? [00:48:09] Jeff: don’t die. The [00:48:09] Brett: Yeah, the dead don’t die. [00:48:11] Jeff: Yes, she has. Uh, she, I mean she, and every other actor that has ever been in a [00:48:17] Brett: Right. [00:48:17] Jeff: movies and the Iggy pop in there. Carol Kane is in there like Tom waits, like Tom whites plays a character called hermit Bob and his first line is up your hole with a wooden pole, cliff, bill Murray and Adam driver. [00:48:31] Our buddy cops is basically a very slow buddy cop [00:48:35] Brett: Yeah, for sure. [00:48:36] Jeff: and bill Murray. It’s just like, there’s an amazing moment. I’ll stop here. But there’s an amazing moment where Adam driver walks into the scene of a like zombie, like killing and he just goes, oh, yuck. Just to me was the funniest thing in The world. all I’ll stop there, but she was in it. She has a great, she brings the sort of George Romero night of living dead [00:49:00] references into the movie. [00:49:01] Brett: The other, the other TVL mentioned before we get to our favorite apps is, uh, life and Beth. Um, it is absolutely worth watching, uh, Amy Schumer wrote and directed and stars in it. And it is like you’ve seen Amy Schumer’s comedy, like when she did whatever her show was called, the Amy Schumer [00:49:28] Christina: The show. [00:49:29] Brett: Um, like she, she, within the bounds of conventional comedy, she pushed some like feminist ideas and stuff and, and it was, it was entertaining and, and easy to watch. [00:49:42] But this really, I think, dives into, uh, Mo modern life as a, as a 30 something person. And, uh, and I swear, I don’t know, they haven’t officially said it, but I’m [00:50:00] pretty sure her love interest is an autistic guy who lives on his own on a farm. And it is, it’s fascinating. Like it is a very unlikely pairing. [00:50:12] It’s I’m loving it. It’s a great show. [00:50:16] Jeff: Love Michael. [00:50:16] Christina: I’m definitely going to watch cause I’ve always liked. I’ve always liked Amy Schumer actually. And I like the other actors who are in it. Um, it is interesting and weird that Michael Sarah, that George [00:50:27] Brett: Yeah. [00:50:27] Christina: now dad. Like in real life, like he’s a dad and like, that’s just, it’s weird, but I’m just like looking at the other cast list. [00:50:34] I really like, I like, um, um, Laura Benanti and, um, I, I like Michael Rappaport and, um, I like, um, some other people who are [00:50:43] Brett: haven’t seen Michael Rappaport yet. Is he in it? [00:50:46] Christina: uh, that’s what this is, this is what Google is saying. I haven’t watched it yet, but [00:50:49] Brett: cool. Um, I look forward to that. [00:50:52] Jeff: I saw him in the trailer. [00:50:54] Brett: Nice, nice. That that’s something to look forward to. I think I’m on episode four. I’m that one as well. I [00:51:00] started watching it around the same time I started watching, uh, only murders in the buildings, so, [00:51:05] Christina: Okay. Great. So yeah, so only murders in the building. Um, uh, Jeff give, given another shot and, um, and Brett, you’re going to really like it. I think, um, I made grant watch it and grant was kind of like ambivalent at first, I think, frankly, because of the Selena Gomez thing. And I was like, no, she actually holds her own, I think as well as anybody could as being like the outsider to, you know, Martin short and Steve Martin, um, does like, like, I actually was very impressed with her, but then the, the, the mystery and the stuff that opens up it’s, you know, parody, it’s funny. [00:51:36] Um, it, I’m very excited about the second season. Let’s just put. [00:51:40] Brett: I think it’s episode three, Jeff, where. They really start to like bear the mystery to really lay open, like this second layer. Second, third, fourth, layers to the mystery. Um, [00:51:57] Jeff: I’ll get, I’ll get back in it. [00:51:58] Brett: yeah, [00:51:59] Jeff: [00:52:00] I by the way, TV wise, I finished station 11 over the last [00:52:03] Christina: Oh [00:52:04] Brett: haven’t started. I loved that book so much and I really need to give that show a [00:52:09] Jeff: I want you to watch it so you can tell me how it is different from the book and if I would enjoy reading it. [00:52:14] Christina: I was going to say if, if I sh I, cause I loved the mini-series. [00:52:18] Brett: don’t know if I’ve ever shared this with you guys, but I have ADHD and I also have bipolar, which the combination of ADHD and frequent manic episodes over a couple of years really fucks with your memory. So I’ll be honest. I remember loving station 11. I don’t even remember what it was about. I do not like I can watch, like, I’m ready to start watching say parks and rec again, because I’ve already forgotten what happens like it’s. [00:52:54] Jeff: I started the mission impossible movie last night because my back hurt and I needed to lay on my stomach and I, and I was [00:53:00] like, I’m pretty sure I’ve already seen this, but I don’t know. [00:53:03] Brett: Yeah, I will. I will not be able to tell you where the show differentiates from the book, because it will all be like, oh, this seems vaguely familiar to me. [00:53:12] Jeff: it is a, it is for me. [00:53:14] it, it goes on a list of perfect television [00:53:17] Christina: Yeah. [00:53:17] Brett: Nice. All right. [00:53:19] Christina: it, it it’s, it’s incredible. Um, it was one of those, uh, I was kind of skeptical because of the, um, like the subject matter. Like even though they’d started it before the pandemic, like it, it felt like one of those things, I was like, can I really watch one of, one of these things again? But it was really incredible. [00:53:40] And, and I was also kind of skeptical because literally everyone on the internet was talking about how it was the best thing ever. Um, after like the first two episodes, then I was like, I don’t know about that. And then I watched and I was like, oh no, this is actually, I agree with you. It’s like perfect television. [00:53:53] Brett: How much time do you guys have [00:53:54] Jeff: casting is [00:53:55] Christina: I got, I got time. [00:53:57] Brett: Jeff? How much time do you have? [00:53:58] Jeff: I can go to like one [00:54:00] 40 at the latest, [00:54:01] Brett: It’s one 20. Okay. So I want to get to our gratitude list, but I just realized that we have two topics from Jeff on the list that we haven’t touched. Jeff, do you want to, do you want to get to those. [00:54:16] Jeff: I put it in the text. I said we could just leave. You were during the last ad read. I was like, let’s just leave those for another show. Cause it feels like we’re headed towards gratitude. [00:54:25] Brett: All right. All right. [00:54:27] Jeff: to do on, I’m happy to pick one, but [00:54:28] Christina: Yeah. I mean, if you’re not feeling it, then we can, we can hold it over. But, but what let’s make sure that we get them at the top [00:54:35] Brett: Are you, are you not internationally traveling in the next week? [00:54:38] Jeff: no, no, I’m not. I don’t travel until the end of may. [00:54:42] Brett: All right, we’ll get this, that. [00:54:44] Christina: Well, we’ll, we’ll get to that. And, and, um, I haven’t traveled internationally in two years, but I will still share my, my travel tips because. [00:54:55] Jeff: my big, my big topic is just for anybody who wants to think about it between one week and the [00:55:00] next two out there is those two get hub listeners is, um, is, you know, we always talk about preparing for travel and, and hacks for when we’re traveling. But I, I find the hardest part of travel after years of traveling a ton, the coming back. [00:55:15] And, [00:55:15] Brett: Yeah. When your family doesn’t remember you anymore and you have to like reintegrate. [00:55:20] Jeff: getting back to your family, being home, not being in that kind of free flow of like, yeah, let’s go to dinner. Why not? You know, like [00:55:28] Christina: Yup. Not being un-conference time. Yeah, totally. [00:55:31] Jeff: So [00:55:31] Brett: Alright, are you ready? [00:55:34] Jeff: for, oh, [00:55:38] Brett: It’s crap to two time. So where, where, where rig, [00:55:44] Jeff: drum. If you ever want to do that, live [00:55:46] Brett: we’re recording this week using a new system called Riverside F M and, and it is the first time we’ve ever like, kept a video on while recording. So we’re seeing each other’s [00:56:00] faces and, and we get to, we get to see each other react and we also have a soundboard built into the system and. [00:56:11] Jeff: can only, you see it. [00:56:14] Brett: No, if you go into the sidebar under media, [00:56:17] Jeff: Jesus Christ, uh, sidebar. [00:56:21] Brett: which I, you know, like I built a whole soundboard with my stream deck, but, but this is like, now I know it’s working because it’s part of the system and, and I can, I can make a, you know, a joke and then every time, so you guys, if you don’t have access to the soundboard, I’ll make sure you get access to the soundboard. [00:56:43] GrrrAPPtitude [00:56:43] Brett: But anyway, that brings us to gratitude, which we have never renamed and we hit the G hard. So, you know, it’s not, you know, crappy attitude. This is, this is [00:56:58] Christina: girl.[00:57:00] [00:57:00] Brett: So let’s talk about grips. Um, who wants to go first? [00:57:07] Jeff: I don’t care. I’ll go if you want [00:57:08] Christina: Yeah go. [00:57:09] Jeff: All right. All right. My mine is, um, is the app Zotero, which [00:57:15] Christina: Oh yeah, [00:57:16] Jeff: yeah, [00:57:16] just a wonderful, it’s a free tool for collecting your research in order to be able to cite it, to be able to organize it. And now they have Zotero six has come out and they actually added a PDF reader like onboard, which means that you don’t have to kind of, it used to be a place to organize all your PDFs, but like, you’d go out to some other app to edit them, which isn’t a big deal, but it’s actually extremely nice. [00:57:40] Just stay in the app and kind of move your research paper in to your view. Um, anyway, I’m not, I’ll do a better job as to can I edit, can I just start this over? Cause that [00:57:51] Brett: No, this is, this is life. Fuck it. We’re doing it. Live. [00:57:55] Jeff: Then I’ll just start it over. Do you like PDFs as much as I do? Um, okay. So [00:58:00] I do, as part of my work, I do, um, qualitative research, which is like, simply put, like it’s a lot of interviewing people basically. [00:58:07] Um, and then analyzing the transcripts of the interviews. But I also, because I’m researching topics, I also like to kind of learn what has been published about those topics. I am not myself an academic, but I, I do a lot of academic reading. And so taro exists for that. So anybody who is in a grad program doing any kind of research is using Zotero. [00:58:27] If you go on LinkedIn, you’ll find if you search as material, you don’t even really necessarily get the people that were good Zotero. You just get everyone who lists Zotero as a skill. which is super interesting. Um, and, and it’s just a fantastic free tool that, so for me, like, because I didn’t even finish high school and didn’t go to college, but I, I work, I I’m a member owner of. [00:58:52] Research and evaluation collaborative. And, and we do evaluation and research at [00:59:00] kind of high levels. And a lot of the people that I work with are PhDs and I am a, not even a GED. And, uh, and so I have a, a special kind of appreciation for tools that make academic work accessible. Um, and especially in the world of academia, not only is there the problem of textbooks being so incredibly expensive, turns out it doesn’t matter if they’re paper or on your Kindle or whatever, right? [00:59:25] Like it’s always just super prohibited of prohibited, edited additive. Um, But also these software, like the software I use to do qualitative analysis, which is called max. QDA just fantastic software, super expensive. So I want to just throw out my appreciation to the developers behind Zotero, because this is the tool that’s made me feel like I can do meaningful academic ish work without having to go through this. [00:59:53] Insult of being like, oh right. I don’t even know what half this stuff means that they’re talking about, or I can’t spend $500 to use [01:00:00] this thing. And they have allowed me to be like a much sharper researcher. Um, so anyway, and they just released, uh, Sotero six, which as I said at the very thrilling beginning, um, has, uh, has an unimportant PDF reader, which unless you’re a user of Zotero, it doesn’t necessarily sound that special. [01:00:19] Um, I will put into the show notes, the credits, uh, on their website, showing the developers. I will say that looking over this, it is, um, it very much appears as if this is a, if this is a man heavy, um, team of people making this and I don’t ever want to recommend software without also. Just noting, who’s making it. [01:00:42] And in this case, I’m not to take away from any of these people’s work because they’ve done a fantastic job. It doesn’t appear looking at this. Like they’re bringing a lot of diversity and in terms of like gender now, I don’t know people’s gender identity don’t know any of that stuff, but I’m just saying it doesn’t appear if I’m wrong. [01:00:58] It’s not a sponsor read. [01:01:00] I’m wrong, I will correct myself thoroughly next week. Um, but having scanned some of these people’s LinkedIn pages and stuff anyway, all the same. Thank you to all of you. And, uh, and I love this tool, that’s it? That’s my gratitude. [01:01:16] Brett: I wrote an integration for Zotero and Evernote back when they were both new things. [01:01:25] Jeff: wow. [01:01:26] Brett: I don’t even remember what year that was, but it was back in an era where diversity was not a concern, [01:01:35] Jeff: Not a concern [01:01:36] Brett: the middle ages. [01:01:37] Jeff: you experienced things, right? [01:01:39] Brett: age. Maybe been a while. [01:01:42] Jeff: Well, they also, I should say that, I mean, one thing when we’re talking about apps, I feel like, I think about this a lot as we’re, as I’m thinking about, I cracked a tooth stuff, it’s like, what am I thinking? Who am I thinking? And Zotero is also another one of those asks that just has a huge user community creates all sorts of plugins. [01:01:59] And so [01:02:00] also just huge props to, to that community. I really love it when there’s the combination of an app that seems basically responsive. Uh, and, and it is caring about the app and then a huge user community, as opposed to an app. That’s like, oh, well, it seems like everyone’s writing plugins out there. [01:02:15] So we can just kind of sit over here and barely do anything anyway. Sorry. That’s me. [01:02:22] Brett: All right, Christina, what’s your, what’s your gratitude for the apps this week? [01:02:27] Christina: Okay. So I was having to do just some kind of image editing stuff, and I was actually having to deal with, with some vector graphics. And, and usually, you know, this is when, um, like my, my fallback has just use illustrator because I know that pretty well, but illustrator was, they were doing some sort of update. [01:02:42] I don’t know if things were being slow. I wasn’t super thrilled with it. And so I remembered that I have the affinity tools, affinity designer, and affinity photo. And I just wanted to give my shout out to the stairlift team, uh, from, from, you know, who, who make, uh, the afinity tools, because those [01:03:00] are just some fantastic apps that I kind of feel a little bit guilty that I’ve paid as little as I paid for them. [01:03:07] Like over the years. [01:03:08] Brett: a piece. Yeah. [01:03:10] Christina: Yeah, and that I’ve been getting updates for years. And, um, I have the, I have them on iOS. I have them on Mac and I have actually, um, I, I think even like the iOS and the Mac west things, I think it might’ve even been like a shared purchase. I’m not sure if it wasn’t, I got a good enough deal on it, that it wasn’t a big deal. [01:03:27] But, um, I also bought the windows versions at one point because they [01:03:31] Brett: Have windows versions. I didn’t know [01:03:33] Christina: They do, they do, which is nice because at that point when, when I, um, and, and this will be less in the future, but when I have had to use windows for various work-related reasons, it’s been frustrating. If my only options were to install the whole Adobe suite or to use, uh, paint.net, paint.net as another app, actually, even though it’s a windows app that I would like to give a shout out to because the, the, um, uh, Rick, the creator, um, is a great guy. [01:03:59] Um, [01:04:00] and, um, it is, I think it’s a free open source, um, uh, painting, um, tool for, for windows. great. Anyway, [01:04:10] Brett: Ms. Paint. [01:04:11] Christina: uh, but this is more powerful. This is like [01:04:13] Brett: I should [01:04:14] Christina: they’re like, yeah, no, no, no. The, the cooling of this it’s written in.net, which is hence the name, but, but it’s actually, it’s much more similar to acorn, um, uh, for, for, for Mac [01:04:24] Brett: Another great app. [01:04:25] Christina: another great app. [01:04:26] So, so yeah, so I’m just going to go all in on kind of imaging tools, paint.net, uh, the Saraf apps and acorn, um, uh, let’s throw a pixel Mader in there too, honestly. Let’s just, let’s just get all of the Adobe competitors, [01:04:39] Brett: not, you’re not saving anything for next week. We’re just [01:04:42] Christina: No. I mean, we’ll, we, we, to, we, we, we can talk, we can talk more about them individually, but no, but I wanted to just get the Saraf apps, uh, just to shout out because I’ve, I’ve spent so little amount of money respectively and gotten so much value out of them. [01:04:55] And again, like they’re more performance than the Adobe apps. Um, the Adobe apps [01:05:00] can do more things and you have different plugins and stuff. And, and, and I, I totally see the value, but I think that for like 95% of people for the stuff that they would typically use, uh, if you know, like a pirated copy of Photoshop or like a Photoshop elements or something with, um, I feel like affinity designer and affinity photo are, are great. [01:05:23] I haven’t used the publishing tool, affinity publisher, cause I’ll be honest. I don’t design anything in print, so there’s [01:05:28] Brett: I have, I can say it’s just as good as, as photo and designer. [01:05:35] Christina: Awesome. [01:05:37] Jeff: Can I jump in before you go, uh, right before you do yours. Um, first of all, just shout out to Microsoft paint. I want, I want to say that I really want to do, uh, an, an episode Of gratitude where we answer as if it were like 1997. [01:05:55] Christina: that’s a great idea. I love that. [01:05:57] Jeff: want to say, do you know, do you know which [01:06:00] famous musician sells art that he created almost exclusively for a period, at least in Microsoft paint. [01:06:08] Brett: It’s gotta be Keith roasters. [01:06:10] Jeff: It’s Ringo Starr. Uh, if you go and look at It I put a link in there. other thing [01:06:17] Brett: so much sense. [01:06:18] Jeff: another shout [01:06:19] Christina: It really does. Oh my God. [01:06:22] Jeff: another shout out to mix up fake. Cause [01:06:24] Christina: Huge shatters Microsoft. [01:06:25] Jeff: Yeah, it [01:06:26] Christina: Some of this is really good too. [01:06:27] Jeff: when We first got, uh, Microsoft paint in my house, I had, I never did drugs as a kid, or even as a, in my ever actually, except a little bit of like gummies in the last couple of years, but we won’t get into that. [01:06:40] Um, but [01:06:41] Brett: get into that. [01:06:42] Jeff: who would take LSD and then ask me to make all sorts of shapes and Microsoft paint. And so I, just had to sit at my desk with my mouse being like, look, I can make this circle go like this, you know? Uh, so anyway, Microsoft paint, tons of gratitude, uh, Ringo Starr, uh, way to way to [01:07:00] make bank off of Microsoft paint. [01:07:01] I mean, no one else figured that out. That’s [01:07:03] Brett: I will say that as someone who for years used Photoshop and illustrator, professionally and InDesign professionally, um, the affinity apps are absolutely replacement for those Adobe apps. And I’m sure, I’m sure you can find like cracks in the facade where, you know, I don’t know what creative studio costs for subscription these days, but I used to pay $600 a year to upgrade Photoshop and, [01:07:37] Christina: It’s like 50, it’s like 50 bucks a month, 50, 55 a month. [01:07:40] Brett: Affinity photo does everything I need it to do. Even as someone with experience with the $600 version of Photoshop and for 50 bucks, it is, it is a steal and it is extremely powerful. And I [01:08:00] love affinity. I love Sarah ifs apps so much. My pick for this week is I thought X, uh, which I don’t believe unlike the Macco S uh, nomenclature. [01:08:15] It is, I thought X not. I thought 10. Um, it’s also available for iPad as I thought, but anyway, I’m a mind mapper. I don’t deal well with outlines. I don’t deal well with large blocks of tax, but I think in what, what Tony Booz-Allen referred to as radiant thinking, where you have like a central idea and then nodes that come off a bit and mind maps just work the exact same way my brain does. [01:08:45] And from the second night to stop it discovered them. 20 years ago. That’s, that’s been the way that I brainstorm has been the way that I organize. It’s been the way that I take notes. It’s been everything to me. And I [01:09:00] originally got really into mind jet my manager, uh, which is a very expensive, large commercial corporation app. [01:09:10] Uh, and when that got cost-prohibitive, I moved on to smaller Macintosh Mac, Mac apps, and, uh, uh, I thought ax is the one that really hit all the buttons for me. Like I love my node. I love E there was one called it was one from literature and latte. That was more of like, like a concept mapping tool, grap, grapple, or I forget, but. [01:09:41] Jeff: Then that kind of work with their like bulletin board [01:09:43] Brett: Kinda. Yeah. Yeah. And, but I thought X really, it has like all kinds of keyword filtering and attachments to nodes and I have it hooked up so I can use it along with mark my own application [01:10:00] to write entire long posts and long documents using a mind map and like add mark down inside the notes for each node. [01:10:11] And I can just shuffle the nodes around in a mind map and modify the output document. And that is absolutely the way I prefer to work. Um, I will, as a side note mentioned, MindMeister, uh, when I, when I want to collaborate with someone else and I want to do it in the form of a minor. Mine. My sir is like the ultimate way to have a collaborative mind map that you can actually see other people’s like, uh, position and, and nodes they add and notes they add, and you can see it happen in real time. [01:10:50] And I’ve actually worked with Jeff in a mind Meiser mind map, uh, recently actually. And it is [01:11:00] it’s worked really well. So shout out to MindMeister as well. [01:11:04] Jeff: Yeah, it’s fun. Uh, one quick, uh, follow up, which is kaleidoscope, which Christina, you had mentioned a bit ago. I did the trial. I will admit I have not paid for it yet, cause I’m not sure that it makes sense for me to, but man, I love it. I had so much fun playing around with it. It’s so elegant. It’s so beautiful. [01:11:25] It’s so intuitive. I was so thank you for pointing me in that direction. [01:11:30] Christina: Yay. [01:11:32] Brett: User testimonial. All right. Well, all right. That brings us right, right up to Jeff’s hard out time. So, uh, thanks. Thanks you guys. That was, that was, I’m going to call that a good episode. That was nice. [01:11:46] Christina: I think so. [01:11:47] Jeff: fun. [01:11:48] Brett: and if all goes, well, Riverside will provide me with three different files now that I can easily turn into an episode. [01:11:54] So if you’re listening to this, it means it worked and, and [01:12:00] we will contact Riverside and ask them to sponsor us. All right. Thanks. You guys. You get some sleep. [01:12:06] Jeff: You get some sleep. [01:12:07] Christina: You get some sleep.

How do ADHD and Autistic people keep their house clean? Do they? Let’s find out in this exciting episode of Overtired featuring Bryan Guffey. Sponsor Truebill keeps track of your subscriptions and makes cancelling them a snap. Start cancelling your unused subscriptions at truebill.com/overtired. It could save you THOUSANDS a year. Raycon earbuds sound great and will stay in your ears no. matter. what. At half the price of the competition, these are a great addition to your workout, your dog walks, and all your listening on the go. Overtired listeners can get 15% off their Raycon order at buyraycon.com/overtired. Show Links Twitter/blackqueeriroh Instagram/blackqueeriroh Unsolicited: Fatties Talk Back Is it you, me, or ADHD? Org chart Paulogia Audio Hijack 4 Jason Snell Audio Hijack 4 Medisafe Due MaskerAid Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Neurodivergent Housekeeping [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, everybody, You’re listening to overtired, uh, due to scheduling conflicts, we could not arrange to have both Christina and Jeff on the show at the same time this week. So, because last week was just a boys’ week with just Jeff and me, Brett Turkstra. [00:00:23] Hi, I’m Brett TURPs. You’re welcome to overtired. Because we had just done an all boys show. We really wanted to bring, uh, Christina in. So this is Brett Turkstra Christina and special guests, friend of the show. Brian Guffey. How are you? [00:00:41] Bryan: I’m tired. [00:00:43] Christina: You’re tired. [00:00:44] Bryan: I’m so tired. [00:00:45] Christina: You’re so tired. Um, you’re overtired. You’re also overexcited, right? Because you’ve got a new, uh, we’re going to go into mental health corner, but, but I, but I wanted you to be able to like, get out your excitement cause, uh, you’re [00:00:56] Bryan: Yeah, I am. very excited. I have a new baby on the way. Um, [00:01:00] it’s a little chunkier than my old baby. Um, and it is a new ma based based model max studio. And I’m just going to say that through the magic of. People I know. [00:01:12] And trade-ins, I’m blinking a base model Mac studio for $800. Babying. Damn, damn. Yeah. I’m really excited. so excited I can’t believe I have to wait almost the rest of the [00:01:24] Brett: month. You’re trading and I’m a Mac mini, correct? I’m one Mac [00:01:28] Bryan: mini. Yeah. [00:01:29] Brett: How much should you get traded for it? 400. Yeah. Okay. That’s what they offered me. [00:01:35] Uh, and then a couple of people on, on Twitter offered me 500 to sell it directly to them. [00:01:43] So I think I’m going to do that, but also my whole home automation system and my media server are still running off a 2012 Mac mini in my basement. Um, and maybe, maybe it’s time to upgrade that and just [00:02:00] like, kind of move down the chain a little bit. [00:02:03] Bryan: Maybe, [00:02:04] Christina: Yeah, maybe. [00:02:06] Brett: I [00:02:07] Bryan: have money now. [00:02:08] Christina: Oh, I was going to say, if you don’t have to get rid of it, like $500, if, if like you feel like you would get more than $500 in value out of it by having it and like maybe moving it down the chain, which [00:02:19] Bryan: I owe the [00:02:20] Brett: IRS, like $1,600 and I got that total and I’m like, cool, got that. No problem. And that is the first time in many years that someone has presented me with a $1,600 bill and I’ve been like, oh yeah, no problem. Cool. I’m basically rich. Now I’m basically a billionaire. [00:02:38] Christina: I love this for you. So are you going to buy Twitter? Um, uh, next, are you going to become a [00:02:42] Bryan: I was thinking like [00:02:43] Brett: maybe 5%, [00:02:45] Bryan: ma you don’t want to, you don’t want to go [00:02:47] 10 if it’s a little more than him, [00:02:49] Christina: I was going to say, if we do [00:02:50] 10, then we can get Brian, um, like more followers. Like we can like force like [00:02:56] Bryan: honestly. [00:02:57] Brett: Can’t we just do that with cash money without being on the board. [00:03:00] [00:03:00] Christina: I mean probably, but [00:03:01] Bryan: we want good [00:03:02] Christina: but the board be fun. [00:03:03] Bryan: Yeah, [00:03:03] Christina: Yeah. The board [00:03:04] Brett: we want, we want the good followers. Like [00:03:06] Bryan: all of the employees at Twitter, like now there was it’s their requirement to follow me. So [00:03:13] Brett: that word, so mental health. How about that mental health? What what’s [00:03:20] asked Brian first, Brian, how’s [00:03:22] Christina: Yeah, I heard that sigh. [00:03:24] Bryan: My mental health is like at this moment. It’s good. But it has been a bit of a shit show. The past like month. I it’s just been a rough relationship time. I’ve been in the, oh, anytime you say anything to me, possibly critical. I have to get very upset right away and tell You that you’re wrong. We talked about this a little bit on Twitter. [00:03:54] Um, but it has been up until like last week, it was really, really. [00:04:00] And just like moments where you’re like, is this gonna work? Um, but my therapist told me once again, that I got, my boyfriend is always right. It’s literally the worst thing right there. I was like, maybe you should just see Nathan, uh, because obviously, like, I don’t know, you guys are best friends, but uh, I’ve chilled out a bit and it’s been helping. [00:04:25] So also I take my out, I take that extra Adderall in the evening and it helps too. You take Adderall in the evening. I take Adderall through, I think Adderall at 3:00 PM. Sometimes it’s a little bit, if I forget like that extra boots, [00:04:39] Brett: not the XR version of Adderall though. [00:04:42] Bryan: Nope. We do XR on Straterra in the morning. [00:04:44] And then the boost, like, it’s just, I think it’s just a 10 milligram boost. [00:04:48] Brett: Uh, which my doctor give me [00:04:49] Bryan: that. Yeah. And if I don’t take that, you better watch out. Cause I will, I will start a fight. [00:04:56] Brett: It sounds like if you were in a CIS hetero [00:05:00] relationship and it were being skewered by a male comedian. Nope. [00:05:05] You would be the man. Yes. Did I set that up, right? I feel like that made sense in my head. Yeah. Yeah, [00:05:12] Bryan: absolutely. Yeah. It would be the game because I would be the one that was like, yeah, totally. Um, I will tell you exactly what’s wrong, but it’s always something if it’s never my fault. [00:05:25] Brett: Yeah. [00:05:26] I am very used to being wrong in any argument with any partner in any romantic sense, male or female, it doesn’t matter. [00:05:38] I’m just used to feeling very much like I am correct very much feel like I am. Right. But I am incapable of winning a debate. I do not debate well, and I generally just have to accept. I either am wrong or in, or am incapable of [00:06:00] defending my belief that our marae [00:06:05] Christina: Okay. So you’re not, but I’m guessing based on what you just said there, you’re not really conceded in most cases that you’re wrong. Secretly, you’re still thinking you’re right. You just don’t [00:06:14] Bryan: sure. Like [00:06:14] Brett: in my head I might be right, but for all intents and purposes, I have [00:06:19] to be wrong. [00:06:21] Christina: you’ve got to. Yeah, you gotta be wrong because you just, you’re not able to [00:06:25] Bryan: Well, [00:06:25] Brett: because if it’s, if it’s a, if it’s a, an academic debate, I might stand a chance. But if it’s like, Who was the last person to watch the dishes? I can’t I’m out fruit. I can’t prove anything. Like I do not have the contextual evidence to say, here’s why I know I was the last person wash your dishes in here are all of the surrounding events that will trigger your memory and prove that I am right. [00:06:53] I never have that. I never [00:06:55] have it. [00:06:57] Christina: do appreciate the, both of you seem to like, [00:07:00] care about like who’s the last person to do. The dishes was because to me, you’d be like, I did the dishes last and I’m like, and like, [00:07:08] Bryan: I’m the only one who does the, this in the house. I took over the kitchen for some reason when I moved them, like washing dishes is really peaceful to me. [00:07:17] Christina: oh, that’s. Yeah, that’s really nice. Yeah. I do not have a domestic bone in my body for this sort of thing. And I would rather pay someone to do some of those things for me. And, um, when I can’t, you know, I like things get out of control, but yeah, I, I, I, in, in fairness to myself, I’ve never pretended otherwise, like I’ve never like pretended like, oh yeah, I’m, I’m a great, you know, like domestic, like, like I’m a great greeter, the whole cleaning and, you know, picking up after things, person never, never pretended that never pretended. [00:07:51] Brett: Housekeeping. is in, in, so it’s, it’s me, ADHD, bipolar person with a [00:08:00] partner who is autistic and. For her to get to a place of cleaning the house. It’s, it’s, it’s much the same as mine, but she’s more capable of pushing through that wall of awful. [00:08:15] Christina: Right. [00:08:16] Brett: But when she’s in house cleaning mode, it’s angry. [00:08:20] Like there’s No, way for her to get to vacuuming without being angry first. And then I just have to go hide because I’m fucking in capable of, of like, if someone tells me, Hey, we really need the kitty litter box cleaned and then vacuum the floors. I that’s that’s clear directive. I can do that. I can say, okay, this is not my job. [00:08:47] But if someone is just clearly in housekeeping mode and I look around, I don’t see, I don’t see where I fit into it without being [00:08:56] explicitly told. [00:08:59] Christina: and, and, and, [00:09:00] and, and you probably are be more helpful by just getting out of the [00:09:04] Brett: I, I have tried. I’ve been like, Hey, how can I help? But when someone is already pushing through a wall of awful and they’re already angry, they do not have the capacity to delegate and asking them, what should I do is just one more stress in the whole thing. And I it’s. So yeah. You’re you are correct. It is the most helpful thing I can do if I don’t see where I can fit in. [00:09:30] It’s just get [00:09:31] out of there. [00:09:33] Christina: This reminds me, sorry, go on. Okay. So th th just real quick, this reminds me when, um, when, when we moved from New York, um, uh, Microsoft page to have these amazing, like movers come in and they packed literally everything up. Like, they pack up your garbage, like, they go so fast. Like, it’s one of those things and, and they, you know, shipped across the country. [00:09:50] And then when we got, um, when we finally got an apartment, like, you know, they, they unloaded all the boxes and stuff. It was, it was excellent, but it was a stressful process because we’d been in that apartment for seven [00:10:00] years and you have people coming in, you know, like boxing and everything up. And, and I, I could not deal with it. [00:10:06] It was just, it was going to drive me crazy. So one of the best things that grant did was he just like told me to get in a cab and go into deep Brooklyn to go to cable vision, to return the cable. And so I returned the cable box and then I went, um, to like the mall or something and, and did some shopping because, and until they were done, because I just could not be in the house while all that was happening. [00:10:32] And that was really great of him to be like, just leave. And I was like, you know what? That’ll be better for all of us. That’s right. [00:10:39] Bryan: Yeah. [00:10:40] I, um, that’s why I sort of like, I took over specific things that are my job, but I also have to make sure that they’re done at particular times because Nathan, I mean lift by himself for a couple of years. And before that was like in a relationship with somebody who was like, we [00:11:00] need things to be organized all the time. [00:11:01] And Nathan is, has like the best memory ever and is far too smart. So like, like you Brett, I just believe when he tells me that I did something, I didn’t do something because I can’t remember. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. It makes, you know, so, um, if I have not cleaned a thing. Then he suddenly gets into cleaning mode, then he will clean the thing. [00:11:27] And then I am mad because that’s my job to clean. Okay. [00:11:31] Brett: So here’s what I’ve worked out with. My girlfriend is I have certain response take the kitty litter, for example, like she is extremely smell sensitive and she can clean the kitty litter with a lot of coughing and gagging me, no effect. Like I don’t care. [00:11:49] I can clean kitty litter all day long. So obviously that is something that should be my job. But I also due to lack of any sensitivity [00:12:00] will not notice when the kitty litter needs to be cleaned nearly as soon as she will. So we have an agreement that all she, she is welcome without it being nagging. She is welcome at any time to say, Hey. [00:12:16] Can you do the kitty litter and to just let me know that now is the time to do this thing that I have taken responsibility for. And I, it doesn’t offend me. Like it doesn’t come across as nagging. It’s just, I need her to tell me when it’s bothering her so that I can do what I’ve agreed to do, because I’m not going to do it on my own. [00:12:41] I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna realize it soon enough. So we just have this agreement that she can just tell me it’s time. [00:12:49] Bryan: Yeah. I’ve been trying to get Mason to understand them. Like you just, just say the thing. Yeah. Just tell me the thing. Like, I will never be upset if you’re like, stop or go do this. Like, [00:13:00] and I will try to remember things I really will, but like, it’s so hard to like for it to stay in my brain. [00:13:07] Brett: Yeah. He, he needs to understand your ADHD and what that means. As far as housekeeping, going to couples counseling with an ADHD counselor was [00:13:20] great for us. [00:13:22] Christina: Oh, really? [00:13:22] Brett: oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. For, for a partner to understand exactly like it’s really easy for outside people to see ADHD, housekeeping tendencies, as some kind of like moral failing. [00:13:38] Uh, but if they can truly understand what it’s like inside my head, uh, being faced with house cleaning, they can come to a place of empathy and understanding and actually work with me. And when you’re working with me, we can get a lot done. Like I’m not incapable of vacuuming the [00:14:00] floors. It’s just a matter of getting me to a point where I actually do it. [00:14:08] Christina: Right. [00:14:08] Brett: Yeah, which just takes a little understanding and yeah, honestly, if anyone, if anyone is ADHD or autistic and is in a relationship with someone who doesn’t have your particularly particular mental illness, go to counseling, go to counseling with someone who understands neurodiverse thinking it’ll it’ll, it’s great for relationships. [00:14:33] It’s [00:14:34] Bryan: amazing. [00:14:36] Christina: That’s a really good tip. Actually. I bet that that would be useful, even if you both are neuro-diverse. And even if you both have some of the same things, I bet it would be, be useful then, because even if you know, it it’s different than being able to like internalize how it might be for someone [00:14:48] Brett: Yeah. Cause you can know something full well about yourself, but seeing it in someone else can drive you insane, even though it’s the same as in you. And that’s partly like nothing drives you more insane and [00:15:00] other people then things that actually reflect parts of yourself. That’s the most. I learned that in 12 step programs, the thing that most annoys you about someone else. [00:15:11] is probably something you also see in yourself. [00:15:14] I’m full of Interesting [00:15:15] tidbits [00:15:15] Bryan: today. We have, uh, we have a book, I got him a book it’s called. Is it you B or ADHD? Oh really? Yeah. It’s about a, it’s actually a woman who her husband has ADHD and she started a support group. And so this is like just conversations and experiences of the people of the partners and the support group. [00:15:41] Um, yeah. Um, w we were about to start going through and reading it, and then of course, He found out his contract with them being renewed. So we’re going to work, you know? So we’re just dealing with that right now. But yeah, like That’s the, that’s the thing that we’re working through because it is sometimes he’s like, I it’s so hard for him to [00:16:00] believe that I’m not just being lazy or ignoring things. [00:16:05] Cause he can’t understand how my brain works. [00:16:08] Brett: Is it you, me or adult add, stopping the rollercoaster when someone you love has attention deficit disorder. That’s what, that’s what my search like app gave me as a result. Is that the one? Yep. All right, cool. [00:16:23] Sponsor: TrueBill [00:16:23] Brett: If you are suffering from way too many subscription syndrome, there is a way out and You don’t even have to talk to anyone. Let true Belle do the work and set you free average users save $720 a year using true bill. [00:16:39] True bill is the new app that helps you identify and stop paying for subscriptions you don’t need or want, or simply forgot about. On average, people are saving thousands a year with true bill. See all your subscriptions in one place. Keep the ones you want canceled the ones you don’t right from the app and your true bell concierge is there when you need them to [00:17:00] cancel unwanted subscriptions. [00:17:01] So you don’t have to no talking to humans, no difficult conversations. I personally have been using true bill for a while now, in addition to seeing all of my subscriptions and notifying me of changes, I also love how it categorizes my income and spending to help me budget without ever having to do. Any traditional bookkeeping, because I suck at paperwork, especially bookkeeping and true bill makes it all automatic. [00:17:27] Start canceling your unused subscriptions@truebill.com slash overtired. Go right now. True bill.com/overtired. It could save you thousands a year. That’s true. bill.com/overtired. One more time for the people in the back. True bill.com/overtired. [00:17:50] How is that? did I do a good job. [00:17:52] Christina: You did a great [00:17:53] Bryan: I would say one way for it. I’m very excited to try to bill. [00:17:57] Brett: I honestly, okay. This is, this is [00:18:00] outside the address, but honestly like. It tells me exactly how much I’ve spent every month and where I’ve spent it without me having to actually do anything. And that has been like really valuable to me [00:18:15] ‘ cause [00:18:15] Christina: That’s awesome. Yeah, ‘ [00:18:16] Brett: keep books to save my life. [00:18:18] Christina: I can’t either. And I, I, I have things on different accounts and whatnot, and I’ve been meaning to sign up for this for a while. And now I’m actually absolutely going to, because. [00:18:27] Brett: they even have the, even have services for tax time to see where all your expenses were. Right, right, right. Yeah. It made life much easier for me this year, because my typical approach is to basically load up Amazon purchase history and just mark off all the things that I can write off as like podcasting or, or indie dev expenses. [00:18:54] And then I go through and I collect all of the totals and then I. Homemade system [00:19:00] services that create totals from my totals, like all, all dollar amounts in selection totaled. And, and that’s how I do my taxes, but, but true bill offers an easier way to get reports and I love it. [00:19:15] To Patreon or not to Patreon [00:19:15] Bryan: That’s awesome. I actually, um, have to think about that because the podcast we just finished season one did very well. [00:19:23] Um, [00:19:24] Christina: wow. Congratulations. [00:19:25] Bryan: yeah. And we launched a, a coffee, like after episode nine and we’re able to recoup costs. [00:19:34] Brett: Did you say, [00:19:36] Christina: No, no, no. It’s K F I, so it was like coffee. [00:19:39] Bryan: yeah, it used to be buying me a coffee. Do you remember buying me a coffee. [00:19:42] Brett? Sorry. Yeah, It’s like, it would be, [00:19:47] it’s a prodo Patrion originally, [00:19:49] Christina: Yeah, exactly. I was going to say [00:19:51] it’s it’s it’s like one click Patrion. [00:19:53] Bryan: But we were able to be coop. I mean, we were able to make back all the money that I spent on editing [00:20:00] [00:20:00] Christina: That’s awesome. [00:20:00] Bryan: God. So we’re going to start a Patrion, but I realized now, like all that, money’s just going into my bank account and I work cohost, but I don’t like, I want to make sure it’s organized. [00:20:13] Right. [00:20:13] Christina: Right? [00:20:14] Bryan: And then I like want that ability to like, have a business. Cause then you can get like business credit [00:20:20] Christina: Mm. [00:20:22] Brett: or we could be, I’m not good at that. All of the money from overtired comes to me directly. And then I have to do all the math to pay my co-hosts. And it’s complicated because. Taxes and, and we have slightly different shares because I do all the editing and it’s math. There are a lot of percentages involved in the calculations drives me nuts. [00:20:48] Bryan: Yeah. I have a, I have a legal like aid plan through work and I think it’s going to go to them [00:20:54] and be like, how do I start an LLC? [00:20:56] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say, if you have that, I, I used one of those like [00:21:00] LLC and a box services that was like $200 or something, um, to, to set mine up. Cause just cause it went through the process. And then, um, I mostly did it because I needed a tax ID number, which you can actually get for free. Um, and then you can, I mean, a lot of it you can do, you know, um, uh, depending on your state, like you can do most of it online, but those, some of those services make it easier, but yeah, I’d reach out to your, um, business, um, uh, like your, your, whatever your, your law plan is. [00:21:27] Um, we, uh, I had one of those at Microsoft when I was at Microsoft. So. Um, which I never used, which was a shame because I paid money for it every month. So you should definitely use it and see how they can help you out and form your LLC. For sure. [00:21:40] Bryan: Yeah. [00:21:41] Brett: So this, this, uh, this talk of Patrion is a perfect segue into one of the topics I have on our list. However, first I want to know [00:21:53] Christina, how’s your mental health. [00:21:55] Christina: My mental health. That’s pretty good. So I was on, on the show last week because I [00:22:00] was stressed cause I was about to start a new job. And um, so for listeners who are now listening, um, I have now been at, I, uh, started a new job. I, um, and now I get up, which is really, really [00:22:10] Bryan: Yeah. [00:22:11] Christina: So that’s been really good. [00:22:14] So it’s, it’s interesting. Cause it’s the same, like Microsoft owns GitHub, but it is a different company. The tools are different. My email is different. I have a different badge. Like the opposites are different. Payroll is different. Insurance is different benefits. Like there are some things that are the same and, and I still have like a way to have like a Microsoft email account and I can still collaborate with some people internally, but more of it is different than, than the same. [00:22:43] So, um, I’m now like, you know, um, now like they, um, I guess a seven and, um, it’s good. Um, it’s just, uh, still getting used to everything, right? So it’s. Like jumping into a fire hose and [00:23:00] trying to kind of like get up to speed with how everything works and what the differences are. And having to kind of break my brain from like the five years of, and I didn’t think that I would ever like, internalize so much Microsoft processes, but I did. [00:23:15] And so it’s one of those things where I’m like, and I’m not like having not, I’m not opposed to it or anything, but it’s just one of those things where I’m like, okay, right. So this is what we do, you know, like just seeing how different companies run and, and are organized. So my mental health is good, but I’m also kind of overwhelmed if that makes any [00:23:31] Bryan: So [00:23:32] Brett: when you’re working for get hub, do they, do they unnecessarily distribute everything as PowerPoint presentations? Like even when it doesn’t make sense to [00:23:44] Christina: no, [00:23:45] Bryan: yeah, that’s what I thought. [00:23:47] Christina: no. no. Everything is a pull request. Everything is an [00:23:49] Bryan: Oh my God. [00:23:51] Christina: yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s like your dream. Um, yeah. [00:23:55] Brett: I failed. Okay. We’re not going to talk about works. My, my work [00:24:00] stuff, because you know, this is public, but, but I did fail to apply for a position at. [00:24:09] Uh, [00:24:10] Christina: Well, you know what you’ll, I’m sure you’ll have other opportunities. And, um, if that’s the case, I, I now am working there so I will have much more insights into being able to talk you up. [00:24:22] Brett: for any Oracle employees listening, I do actually love my job at Oracle and the reason I didn’t apply for an open GitHub position that would have been perfect for me. Is I just, I don’t, I don’t have any reason to leave Oracle at this point. And it really got in my head and there was like this whole existential crisis around like even applying for another job. [00:24:52] Bryan: Yes. About, yeah, I know that feeling, you know, I was, I’ve been thinking about the same thing then having a conversation [00:25:00] about, do I stay where I am? Do I go somewhere else? I know I can get, make a lot more money on the open market. [00:25:05] Christina: You’re right. [00:25:06] Bryan: I love the company that I’m at. And I mean, being an ADHD person and going to a new company is like, oh, I got to learn everything all over again. [00:25:16] And you have to have a work with people. Have [00:25:19] Brett: you been, have you been honest with your higher ups about your, about ADHD and stuff like that? Yeah. And so the idea of starting a new job means you have to break that ground all over again. And that is a very disconcerting [00:25:34] conversation to have [00:25:36] Christina: Right. No, most definitely. Most definitely. And, and I think that there’s something to be said, you know, if you’re in the tech industry even a little bit right now, like the open job market is so competitive right now, you can make way more money. Like I could’ve made more money, not going to get up. If I’d gone to like a, an external company completely. [00:25:55] I could’ve made a lot more money. I’m like, oh yeah. [00:25:58] Brett: make [00:25:59] pretty good money. [00:25:59] Bryan: [00:26:00] Kristy. [00:26:00] Christina: I do, and I, I could have, if I’d gone to Amazon or Google or Twitter or Metta or one of those, um, we’re just being honest here. I could have doubled my salary. [00:26:10] Brett: Jesus Christ. You make so much money, [00:26:14] Christina: I don’t make that much money, but, but, like, I don’t make that much money, but like, I mean, I do well, but like it’s it’s, but, but I could have, I could have doubled my salary, um, uh, at least with options and stuff. [00:26:24] Um, but for me it was a similar thing as what you’re saying, Brian lake, I think there’s something to be said, if you like where you are. There’s a benefit to that. Now I think that at a certain point, if you know what. Potential is other places that can obviously, and I think should, you know, like make it possible to have conversations about, okay, are, is, is the place you’re at? [00:26:45] Are they willing to work with you or whatnot, but there’s more to this stuff than just like the bottom line, you know, you’ve got to think about, am I happy with where I’m working? Do I want to start the process of having to start on a new team all over again and whatnot? In [00:27:00] my case, I actually, I’m so excited about the team that I’m on. [00:27:02] I’m so excited about working on what I’m going to work on. And, and, and I, you know, have, um, nothing but kind things to say about like my team at Microsoft, but I was also looking for a new challenge. And so I wanted something new and, and I, if it hadn’t been get hub, if it hadn’t been another company, it probably would have been another team at Microsoft. [00:27:21] So it was perfect for me. Cause I was like, okay, if all the places I would want to go. This is like the place that I want to go. But if you’re not feeling that, like, I totally respect people were like, you know what? Even if I could get more money or even if it seems like it’s a good thing, if it’s not like feeling fully pressing. [00:27:43] Like there’s okay, let me put it this way. If someone reaches out to me or if someone were to directly reach out to one of you and were to say, I would like to talk to you about a job, no matter how happy you are. I always encourage people to always take the conversation no matter what, but [00:28:00] if it’s, if it’s you who are actively going to go through the process of filling out an application and thinking about like what it would take to go through the interview loop and all that, that’s a little bit different. [00:28:12] Brett: got us. I got to say, if you’re working in the tech industry, having get hub on your resume, even a six month stint at get hub, it’s gotta be good for you. [00:28:26] Christina: I hope so. I hope so. I mean, so far the team is great. It’s really nice. I’m back on slack. Um, [00:28:31] Bryan: Are you happy. about [00:28:32] that? [00:28:33] Christina: oh, I’m so happy. [00:28:34] I’m so [00:28:35] Bryan: had better get support. [00:28:37] It’s really. [00:28:39] Christina: I know, I know. Cause I actually, this was the thing I, I actually, I, I realized that I was like, oh, actually like the Jif support on teams is better at this point. Um, you know, [00:28:50] Brett: Yes. Yes. Yes. We’re not going to have this battle Right. now. We don’t is unnecessary battle, but yes, man. So [00:29:00] Oracle has this thing in their slack where all personal conversations, all DMS disappear after like one month. Oh wow. [00:29:10] Christina: Um, [00:29:10] Brett: Your history is just erased and people, you had a conversation going with, you have to want, you have to start a brand new, fresh DM with after I think it’s 30 days, but [00:29:23] sometimes it seems like it’s even less than that. [00:29:25] Christina: Yeah. They might have different retention periods depending on the channel and the type of conversation. [00:29:30] Bryan: My [00:29:31] Brett: manager recently set up individual channels for all of his reports. Like every one of us now has a Maneesh Brett channel, just because that is the only way to preserve the history. Otherwise your, your conversations, all of the links you’ve shared, all of the things you’ve figured out are gone with the wind. [00:29:55] It’s horrible. Like why [00:29:56] would you do that? What’s [00:29:57] Bryan: the [00:29:57] Christina: Um, okay. So, so you know, [00:30:00] the joke, um, about, um, you know, like the org charts for the tech companies, you know, that. You know, the, you know, the thing I’m talking about. Okay. There’s it, there’s like a thing where it shows like what the org charts look like at all the companies. And like at apple, I think that it was everybody going internally, like to the CEO, you know, who’s like Steve jobs at Microsoft. [00:30:17] You have a bunch of fiefdoms where everybody has guns to each other’s heads and are all trying to shoot each other. Um, uh, Google and Facebook, I think they various things. And then Oracles is like shows a certain amount of engineers and a certain amount of something else, and then a much, much bigger group as lawyers. [00:30:34] So, so, um, and, uh, I’m, I’m gonna, I’m finding that the graphic to put it in. And so when I hear that, I think that that is completely like a lawyer thing where they’re like, yep, we have had to turn over, um, uh, you know, stuff in discovery and whatnot. And so we are doing everything we can to limit what we keep and because we don’t want to have [00:31:00] to deal with that. [00:31:00] Brett: after a year of struggle, Oracle and entirely with Oracle legal teams, uh, after a year of struggle, Oracle finally has a public slack where developers can come get help, uh, converse with each other, talk to Oracle directly. It took a year of basically pleading and, and, uh, conforming to all of these legal requirements. [00:31:28] You actually put out a public slack just for the devil, not like anyone’s letting like developers into Oracle’s internal channels. Just to have a public slack took so much legal maneuvering. It was insane. Anyway. So in brief, my mental health is, uh, five minutes after like a week of feeling jittery. Now it’s doing shit for me. [00:31:54] And I asked my doctor if we could up my dosage. And [00:32:00] she said, I had to wait until the next time we met, which isn’t too far off. And That’s fine because something is better than nothing, but I’m scraping by for now. I think I’m depressed. I, I can’t, it’s not like the depression I was getting after like manic episodes when I would like fall into deep depression. [00:32:19] It’s just kinda like, I would rather a soy in my little, so I called it a den in the last episode. And, uh, people in our discord suggested words like late. Or theater spelled T H E a T R E, that that came from Harold, Chris Herald. Um, so I’m going to go with layer, uh, because I don’t have, you can, if you say, [00:32:49] if you say theater, but you mean theater with an Ari to be slightly pretentious, then you have to spell it. So I’m going to go with layer in my layer. I added back [00:33:00] lighting to my TV. So the entire wall behind my TV lights up based on the colors on the screen, but I, I can put it in music mode and there it has a microphone and all of the hue lights in the room sync with Spotify. [00:33:15] So now I can play any music I want to, and the entire room turns into a sensory experience. And I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the account. But like there are scenes where he turns on strobe, light blast metal, and then like w has a roller that he wrote rolls across his shin for like just complete sensory overload. [00:33:39] And that is something I’ve done my whole life. Uh, as a stress reliever, it’s just complete sensory overload. And Right. [00:33:48] now, for some reason, for whatever reason, I’m finding this, this room full of light and sound to be extremely therapeutic for me. So I’m loving it. [00:34:00] I see the org chart. You posted Christina [00:34:04] Christina: Yeah. [00:34:05] Brett: in our show [00:34:06] Bryan: notes. [00:34:07] Christina: That’s good stuff. Right. [00:34:08] Bryan: Oh, my God. It’s amazing. [00:34:11] Brett: All right. We’ll put it in the show notes. People can catch up on their own time. Speaking of Patrion, I just upped my subscription, my donations, my contributions to . And I can’t remember if we’ve talked about on the show before probably, but so it, apology comes from the Greek word. [00:34:37] Like I’m not going to, I’m not going to try to find it, but it’s about Christianity. It’s about apologetics, um, pology. His name is about apologetics. Yes, definitely. His name is Paul. He, he is a former Christian who takes a look at the claims of Christians. [00:35:00] that’s his tagline. And he let his Patrion lets you pay per episode instead of like a monthly contribution. [00:35:09] And he is prolific, which is great to me. And I upped my contribution from like $1 to $5 per episode. He publishes, which is multiple episodes a month. And I have never felt better about supporting a YouTube, a YouTuber than I do with apology. Uh, his, so like these, these arguments I’ve had with my parents, especially regarding evolution. [00:35:42] Mike. I asked my dad one morning at breakfast, in the midst of a blow up. If I sent you links, if I sent you educational links, would you read them? And he said, yes. And so I [00:36:00] searched and searched and the best resources I found for having this con, because as mentioned previously, I suck at debate. Like I can’t. [00:36:10] I can’t sit there and present you with facts. And not that that would do any good in a very emotional conversation, but I, I can’t, I can’t win a debate, but Paula JIA has this series of, of responses he did to a creationist. Like here’s why creation is real. And then he deconstruct it very calmly and without being sarcastic or mean he deconstructs these claims and it was it’s exactly what I needed. [00:36:44] And so I wrote a four page email to my dad, which I still have not sent. I have not broken that seal yet, but as soon as I’d finished the email I went and signed up for pology is [00:37:00] patriotic because I’m like, you are having the conversation I need to have with my parents for me. And I really appreciate that. [00:37:08] Bryan: Yeah. I, you know, I grew up with a, uh, a Christian background too, but I grew up in the United church of Christ, which is like the whole other side of things. Um, they’re very liberal. Like, I didn’t even know that it like that they were Christians who didn’t like gay people until I was a senior in high school. [00:37:27] It was a revelation. I [00:37:28] got to tell you. [00:37:30] Christina: Oh, that’s so interesting. I mean, I grew up a Pisco Haley, and they’re good at the gays, but there, but it’s also like I, but I also grew up around a bunch of Baptists. [00:37:39] Bryan: Yeah, I yeah. [00:37:41] Christina: was definitely aware that that wasn’t the norm. [00:37:43] Bryan: Yeah. It’s the UCC ordained it’s first gay person in the seventh in 1972. Um, so, and it’s always been a very justice focused, like Cherokee. Uh, one of the big things is that like the UCC has like a [00:38:00] lot of scientists and people who, you know, it struggled like your wrestles a lot with like, oh, we got to balance the science versus this. [00:38:06] But I have had a lot of experience with fundamentalism. And every time I listened to you talk about the struggles you have with your parents. I, my heart goes out to you because I know people like that. And I know that experience of like, just not being people, they just simply have their belief and they won’t budge. [00:38:29] My parents [00:38:30] Brett: still I’m 43 and my parents have no idea I’m pansexual. Like they, they would never be able to wrap their minds. And I’ve known this about myself since I was about 12 years old and I have never been able to talk about that. With my parents or be at all honest about this with my parents, it’s been, and my brother wonders why I’m so traumatized by my upbringing. [00:39:00] [00:39:00] Christina: And, and the thing is, is that like, you’re, it’s, it’s probably like a valid and probably a correct move for you to not have that discussion with them. Right. [00:39:10] Brett: I don’t see a point [00:39:11] Bryan: to it. [00:39:12] Christina: no, I was going to say, I was, I was like, you, your partner is a woman. And I think it’d be different if your partner were a man, but your partner is a woman. [00:39:19] And so they’re not going to understand, and they’re not going to be able to offer you like this sort of, you know what I mean? Like, so it was almost like why, why put yourself through the pain [00:39:30] Brett: at some point, if at some point a relationship with a guy becomes anything other or a guy or anyone else becomes anything other than like a. Uh, pulling. Yeah. I’m going to have to have that conversation, but until that’s the, until that’s the case. Well, I feel like it’s, it’s a rattlesnake’s nest. I don’t need to poke. [00:39:54] Bryan: Yeah. My parents told me I was scared. [00:39:59] Christina: Ha [00:40:00] [00:40:00] Bryan: They called me into, they called me into the room when I was 14 and they said, uh, we know you’re gay. [00:40:08] Brett: That’s gotta, that’s that’s gotta be kind of nice on, I mean, [00:40:11] Bryan: it was, but I, of course being a theater kid [00:40:15] and very dramatic with upset. [00:40:17] Christina: was going to say, I was going to say [00:40:18] I was good that you had the big dramatic limos. No, I’m not. Don’t tell me what I [00:40:22] Bryan: I was just mad that they wouldn’t let [00:40:24] either, I didn’t get to. [00:40:26] Christina: Oh, you’re mad. Like you didn’t get to have like the big, like [00:40:28] Bryan: I think they have the dramatic, right. And then have somebody be mad [00:40:31] at me and all of this. And so then when they’re like, we don’t think You should tell people because we’re worried about your safety. Then I was a cute, [00:40:39] just don’t care about being, you’re worried about your, your, you know, your standing in the community. [00:40:46] They were Right. By the way, it was not great. Um, but you know, also like this is after they had found porn on my computer many times, um, also [00:41:00] [00:41:00] Brett: it was an evidence-based [00:41:01] Bryan: claim. It wasn’t evidence-based claim. Also. I just think about how my parents used to take the keyboard from my computer and put it in, like there in one of the drawers of like the. [00:41:15] They had like the big headboard thing that had like the two, you know, like It’s very thing in the nineties where like it would have drawers and stuff on the side of the bed. If you had like a big king bed in the master bedroom. Yes, exactly. Um, that’s a whole nother story. Um, but uh, they thought that that would keep me from using my computer when they weren’t [00:41:40] home. [00:41:41] Christina: Right. It’s so cute. [00:41:43] Bryan: like [00:41:43] went in and got the keyboard. [00:41:45] Christina: Oh, well, that’s what I’m saying. Exactly. Like, like of course you did. Like, I always, I always knew, um, uh, like my parents never did that because in fairness to them, I think, well, I don’t know it’s either. No, cause they never would have dealt with that with my sister. [00:42:00] Cause she wasn’t into computers and um, whatnot. [00:42:02] But I think that I’d worn them down at that point. Cause she’s six years older and I think they just weren’t going to with me. But I also feel like there, I think there would have been a part of them that they would have realized the futility of doing that because like I remember at one point I was put on computer restriction and I put a password on the computer and that really, really, really, really, really made them angry because then my dad could get on the computer. [00:42:28] I’m like, well, I mean, you know, we have two options here. [00:42:32] Brett: control. Dad [00:42:34] Christina: Well, I mean, yeah, like. [00:42:35] Bryan: my parents. [00:42:37] Christina: Exactly. Exactly. Well that, well, that’s the thing too, is that at a certain point, like they were like, I was the one who would have had to set up all the parental control software, you know what I mean? Like, like there’s no way that they could have done anything with me. [00:42:46] So, so, but, but I totally understand that. Yeah. Like they, they take the keyboard away. Cause I had friends who their parents would do that. And I was like, how dumb are you? You’re just going to go and find it. You know exactly where it is. It’s going to be in some, you know, on, on some [00:43:00] shelf someplace, like are, do they think that you’re just not going to get the keyboard and worst case? [00:43:05] Cause I did actually have like one friend who I think their, I think their mom or something. I think she like took the keyboard with her in the car or something. Okay. Key ports are not expensive. It’s pretty easy to just find somebody who’s PSU keyboard and then just get another one and like hide it under your bed. [00:43:20] Like it’s not, it’s not the end of the world. [00:43:23] Bryan: Man. So [00:43:24] Brett: like my parents took my CDs out of my room and they would take my records out of my room because I’m a kid of the nineties. I had both vinyl and CDs and tapes, but, uh, but they would never fuck with my computer. Like they never, they never messed with it. Like I built my own machines. I always had a computer and it was always like my most prized possession. [00:43:48] And it’s not that my parents didn’t know how these things work. My like my dad got our first computer in like 1984. And like he knew what was up, but for some reason they [00:44:00] never. I, as far as I know, they never even booted by machine to see what, see what I was doing. I ran my own BBS. They never checked on what they had, no idea what was happening. [00:44:11] They left my computer alone and thank God that could have gotten messy. There were these, like, there were these text-based porn, like when you run a BBS, you can run like interactive games and they’re like text-based games. And there was one that was very adult themed and a BBS. I had been like, ah, like a member of a, they made me assists up when I was like 15 and I immediately jumped into [00:44:43] the adults only section and, and they found out they tracked my history. [00:44:48] They took away my privileges. So I just ran the same app on my own BBS. And like that could have gotten. [00:44:59] Ugly [00:45:00] it like if they, if they had seen my history with that game, we’re talking, it got, it got dirty. It was filthy as fuck. And if they had any idea, they would never see me the same way. Again, like this is a kid who called them from, from rehab to say, mom, I’ve been hooked on heroin for eight years. [00:45:21] I need a ride home. And still, I think this would have been worse [00:45:25] Bryan: for them. [00:45:28] Christina: But I mean, yeah. Which, which is why it’s good, that they, I have a feeling that they might’ve kind of deep down known some of that, which is why they let you just do things on your own computer. They just out of sight out of mind, you know what I mean? [00:45:39] Brett: I hope so. hope they have some idea or though is they’re [00:45:43] completely oblivious. [00:45:45] Christina: I mean, like, not that my parents had the ability to do, um, like any of that stuff, but. Uh, if they did, I would like to think that they wouldn’t have wanted to know that. Yes, I absolutely had, um, when I was like 12 and 13 years old, I [00:46:00] absolutely had grown men on the internet trying to like, like, you know, like to catch a predator with me, like 100%, like, like, like, like, like, like the Chris Hanson dudes were, were all up, like in the chats and asking me all kinds of inappropriate questions. [00:46:13] And I was like, not having it, but like that stuff was happening. Right? Like, like people were attempting to GRU me, um, a little do they know that, that I really enjoyed fucking with them, um, and, uh, was, was not, was not there for that, but, um, they would have been horrified by some of the stuff that in of the conversations I had and I have, I have to think that there’s a part of them. [00:46:32] It was just like, you know what don’t want to know. [00:46:35] Bryan: Yeah, [00:46:35] Brett: well, okay. So when I was in my teens and twenties, I was super curious about what my partners were writing in their personal journals. And I would Snoop and I regretted it every time I did now, I’m in my forties and I don’t want to fucking know. [00:46:55] what you’re writing in your journal. That is your space. [00:46:58] And I want nothing to do [00:47:00] with it. And I feel like once you get to a certain age, you understand. [00:47:04] Christina: Yes, [00:47:05] Brett: That people’s privacy is private for a reason. And you don’t need to know certain things. [00:47:14] Bryan: I’m happier [00:47:15] if you don’t know certain things. Really. [00:47:17] Christina: exactly. You really do not want to know. I mean, cause this is the thing, like we used to have a thing, like we would like break into each other’s emails and things like that. And then like you would find stuff out about each other and you’re like, oh shit. I, like, I found out, like, I, I knew he was gay, but then I really knew he was gay and, and, and we were like 15 and I like, felt like such an asshole. [00:47:38] Cause then like he wasn’t out and like we didn’t ever have a conversation about it. And so I had to like, pretend [00:47:43] Brett: yeah. [00:47:43] Christina: uh, like, because. [00:47:44] Brett: never have known that, that [00:47:46] Christina: I never should have [00:47:47] known that [00:47:48] it wasn’t mine to know. And what we’d had this game to see who could break into each other’s email first, I guess he didn’t realize how quickly I got into his and couldn’t delete his, his email newsletters. [00:47:58] And, and [00:48:00] so I never told him, cause it was one of those things, like when I found that out, I was like, oh shit. Okay. So, so this is not actually a good game to have. This is actually not a good game to play. This is, this is not a good game to play, but like that was like, but like you like going through like, you know, a partner’s like journal, like you think that you want to know those things and then you realize, no, actually I really [00:48:19] Brett: I was way happier before I knew that you thought this even in even, so a journal represents things that you, you think, but maybe don’t consider necessary to tell other people there they’re very internal thoughts. And just because someone writes something in a journal, doesn’t make it real. [00:48:42] it’s just a thought that they had [00:48:44] Christina: what they’re thinking of that [00:48:45] Brett: they didn’t consider where sharing. [00:48:49] Oh [00:48:49] Christina: Well, and sometimes it’s up, it’s just put your working out emotionally, you know, it’s like, it’s like your brain. It’s like, you know, I, I think it’s one of those things where, and I’ve even thought that my, I thought this myself and then I’ve like gotten, that would actually be the worst thing [00:49:00] where like you think, oh, I wish I could read people’s minds. [00:49:02] And I’m like, oh my God, that would be horrible if you knew what everyone was thinking. Oh my God. Like that would just be [00:49:09] Brett: Yeah, no, I have enough problem with thinking. I know what other people are thinking if I knew it to be true, I’d be fucked. [00:49:16] Christina: Yeah, [00:49:17] Brett: Yeah. Okay. So wait, we have 10 minutes left and I really want Brian to pick our [00:49:23] final topic. [00:49:24] Christina: Okay. But first, real quick, uh, we need to talk about our next sponsor, uh, who is. [00:49:30] Brett: responsible. [00:49:31] Christina: Say, I’m trying, man. I’m trying to get us paid. All right. Now we’re going to talk about, um, our next sponsor, which is a rake on. [00:49:38] Sponsor: Raycon [00:49:38] Christina: So a lot of people didn’t even make resolutions this year. Also. Can you believe it’s already April? [00:49:44] I can’t like that’s messed up. All right. But you know what? We get it. Um, but that doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t still find a way to shake things up, whether it’s by switching up your workout routine or going someplace new. So whatever way you challenge yourself this year, there’s no better way to do it [00:50:00] than with a pair of a Ray Khan, wireless earbuds in your ears. [00:50:04] And recon wireless earbuds are the best way to bring audio with you because no matter how much you shake things up, literally, uh, and no matter how much you shake, you know what, they will not fall out of your ears. Brett, tell me about your experience with. [00:50:16] Brett: So, uh, like I, I have, I have many pairs of your buds. I love headphones. And I walk my dogs, my dog singular all the time. I have never had a pair of earbuds that wouldn’t fall out. When it like the dog poles and you make a quick turn, I, my ears are shaped funny and they always fall out. And these Ray con earbuds are literally the first earbuds I’ve ever had that I can put in at the beginning of a dog walk and never once have to like catch halfway down to the ground. [00:50:51] They are amazing at staying in my ears. [00:50:54] That’s my testimonial. [00:50:57] Christina: Yeah, I have to say, uh, my husband grant, uh, he’s been saying the [00:51:00] same things. He’s always dropping and, um, um, breaking things is he’s been working on maker, sh stuff in the house and he’s had them in and it’s the same thing. Like they do not fall out and, uh, Ray cons everyday earbuds look, feel, and sound better than ever. [00:51:15] And there’s also an aware. For when you need to listen to your surroundings. So you can take your Ray cons with you wherever you go, and you can use them in all kinds of situations. And that awareness stuff is great, especially if you’re going to be walking outside or, or, or it’s a place where, you know, you might have traffic or other things you might need to be aware of. [00:51:32] The name and with optimized gel tips for the perfect ear fit. These earbuds are so comfortable that they will not budge. And as Brett said, he definitely has trouble with the yurbuds falling out, but not with these and Ray cons offer eight hours of playtime and a 32 hour battery life. And they’re priced just right. [00:51:51] So you get great audio quality at half the price of the other premium audio brands. And it’s no wonder that Rakeon’s everyday earbuds have over 48,000 [00:52:00] five-star reviews. So right now, overtired listeners can get 15% off their re con order at by Ray con.com/overtired. That’s right by Ray con.com/overtired to save 15% on ons. [00:52:14] That’s by Ray con R S R a Y C O n.com/overtime. [00:52:20] One more time [00:52:20] Brett: That’s by Ray con.com/overtired. [00:52:24] All these reads require that you say it like three times. And I guess, I guess That’s like psychologically prevent to like lodge in people’s memories, but it feels, it feels very repetitive to me. I just, [00:52:38] Christina: by Ray con.com/overtired. [00:52:41] Bryan: by, as in like, you want to purchase them, not goodbye, Ray con B U [00:52:45] Christina: oh, that’s broccoli. That’s correct. B U Y [00:52:48] R a Y C O n.com/overtired. [00:52:52] Brett: case just in case you miss it. That’s by Ray con.com/overtired. Brian that’s [00:52:59] Bryan: for econ,[00:53:00] [00:53:03] but yes. [00:53:04] Brett: What else? Topic. Yeah, we have like, you have a whole list here in Quip, including including your own topics. What do you pick for our last topic of the, of the episode? [00:53:15] Bryan: All right. Let’s I think what we’ll do really tight here is, um, the one that I think is my biggest issue right now, which is how do I learn to leave my house again? [00:53:28] Christina: Okay. [00:53:29] Brett: let’s finish that line because you’re scared of COVID but you miss your friends. Yeah. [00:53:34] Bryan: Um, I am, yes. I am technically higher risk because I’m fat. There’s some debate on that, but also I have high blood pressure and I’m about to start taking an immunosuppressant [00:53:47] Brett: same. Uh, other than the immunosuppressant, I am, I am technically obese and I have high blood pressure and am considered high risk. [00:53:58] We both [00:53:59] Bryan: have ADHD, [00:54:00] which also makes us high risk [00:54:01] Brett: weirdly enough. That is correct. Ha ADHD is a, uh, uh, high-risk symptom [00:54:09] Bryan: conditions, conditions first to fly to Florida next month for a fraternity thing. And I don’t know, y’all like, I haven’t even seen friends around here yet. Now I live in the middle of nowhere. [00:54:21] So it’s like a 90 minute commitment just to see a friend. Yeah, [00:54:28] Brett: we talked about a couple episodes ago. We talked about how, uh, we were excited to go mask free. Um, and how, at some point wearing a mask is just performative, which you had an issue with. Um, you, you took us to task on this with a, with a tweet storm. [00:54:49] There were no less than three tweets. fewer than three tweets to take us to task for calling wearing a mask performative. [00:55:00] Do you, do you feel like it’s not time to drop masks yet? [00:55:06] Bryan: I think you have to be really clear about the risk of the people around you. And the, um, the level of community spread that you have. [00:55:21] So I think in some cases, in some places, you know, it’s okay to not wear masks. If you are meeting with friends, people, you know, and everybody, you know, has been hanging out at home or hasn’t been in, um, a bunch of places, outdoors or indoors. Um, I think, you know, it’s reasonable to not wear a mask. Um, I think that rapid tests are one of the great tools of the pandemic. [00:55:50] It doesn’t mean you’re not, you could have a negative test on a rapid test and still be positive, but you’re not likely to infect your friends. So I think there are times where [00:56:00] you can not wear masks. I will tell you that since September, I had one visit with a friend in September, Where we didn’t wear masks and we hung out indoors. [00:56:13] But since then, like I saw my parents twice and even outdoors, I was wearing masks. Um, but you know, I know that everything’s changing. So it’s really difficult for me to sort of figure out where I want to be here. It’s just, honestly, it’s the long COVID thing. Like he knows so little about [00:56:32] Brett: it. Yeah. people talk about like, oh, Alma, Cron is super mild and you get over it in a couple of days, but we have no stats yet on the long COVID reaction. [00:56:45] And that’s what freaks me out. I, can handle being sick for a couple of weeks. That’s fine. I’m I’m good at being sick. I, I’ve been, I’ve been sick for a good portion of my life. It’s the long COVID and the brain fog that really scares me like [00:57:00] the long-term damage because there is brain damage. We have shown in the couple years that we’ve had data for, we have shown actual damage to the brain from COVID infection and that [00:57:13] scares the shit out of bang. [00:57:16] Christina: Yeah. I, I, it scares me too. The only thing I will say is, and this isn’t to any way discount. I want to be very clear about that. Like what people are saying, but as long as COVID is a concern, but I also feel like, and this, I have a problem with some of the messaging around lung COVID because I think that it’s, it becomes like some of the other. [00:57:34] Um, uh, like diagnoses where we don’t actually know what qualifies as on COVID and what doesn’t. And so you see a lot of mixed and, and, and cause we just don’t have enough data. So you see a lot of mixed stuff where people are like, oh, well I’ve had this and this and this, and this is all because of long COVID when it might not be that at all. [00:57:50] And so I at least just for our, all of our mental health, just because we are going to have to be out in the world more, you know, even if we are [00:58:00] taking precautions, things are going to, um, things are opened up and, and unless you want to be committed to staying indoors and taking rapid tests every single time you’re around anyone and enforcing that and others too, you know, like there are, there are certain things that are out of our control. [00:58:17] So for my own. Sanity. I’m looking at the lawn. COVID seven bothers me, but I’m also trying to be skeptical in the sense that some of the stuff that I see associated with it, I’m like, okay, is the medical community really saying this? Or is this just becoming a catch all where we don’t know what else it is? [00:58:34] Brett: Just to be clear though, long COVID is recognized is? [00:58:39] officially [00:58:39] now recognized as a medical [00:58:42] Christina: Um, I, yeah, no, I’m, I’m aware [00:58:44] Brett: And also I’m fine with never leaving my [00:58:46] house again. So [00:58:48] Christina: well, I mean, okay. But, but, but, but I’m not talking about whether it’s recognized or not. I I’m, I’m saying it’s like fibromyalgia or some of the other, or like Lyme disease or other things where things are associated with [00:59:00] them that might not be associated with them at all. And that, and it doesn’t mean they’re not real. [00:59:03] It just means that they become a catchall for things that don’t actually have anything to do with that, like IBS. Right? Like there’s, there’s a lot of stuff that is real diseases that, that become. [00:59:15] Brett: I’ve been diagnosed with IBS and my girlfriend has been [00:59:17] diagnosed with Lyme. So. [00:59:20] Christina: Yeah, and, and those are real things. And what I’m saying is, is that they become though for a lot of people add like a way where you can just throw something and you can say that this is, this is because of, of this, um, diagnosis. [00:59:33] Bryan: go ahead. There’s all, there are always situations where people will not be like won’t know or are trying to find an answer for something that they’re dealing with. And the only thing that they can figure out themselves, how to connect it back to as long COVID. And the problem of course, with long COVID is it’s not like you can get a, it’s not like there’s a test to be like, oh, you have COVID [01:00:00] it’s like you had COVID and then all of these other things happen and re and all we dealt with is that they happened after you had COVID. [01:00:10] Yeah. And you know, it, it is hard to necessarily know what connects and what doesn’t yet, but. Yeah, well, like that’s the scary [01:00:20] Brett: thing. My diagnosis of IBS basically came after multiple interviews and then a colonoscopy in which they didn’t find anything they were looking for. And that’s when they said, okay, you have IBS because we can’t explain this in any other way. [01:00:39] Christina: right. [01:00:40] Bryan: That’s the tricky part about a lot of these is they are like diagnoses of elimination. [01:00:45] Christina: Exactly. [01:00:45] Bryan: I do think Christina, one of the things that’s different. I mean, Brett, you were like, I’m fine. Never leaving my house again. I’m not. And that’s the part that I’m in, in the worst part is, is that my partner, like Nathan is fine not leaving the house. [01:00:59] [01:01:00] Um, and so. What would make me more comfortable as if he left the house with me, but he’s like, ah, I’m not like, I’m not going to go to Florida with you. Uh, then do I really want to go? And it’s the [01:01:15] question of like, what is worth it now? [01:01:17] Christina: Right. No, that’s a good, that’s a good point. And I think that maybe that becomes like what you have to kind of address with yourself and maybe you need to also express to him, like if his concerns are not health based, if his are more, like, I just don’t see the need to go out and be social maybe. [01:01:32] Bryan: to Florida. [01:01:33] Christina: Well, but, but maybe, but maybe he would see the need to be with this partner who wants to see friends and see people and want [01:01:40] Bryan: And I think he would do some of that with me. Um, I think he is just, you know, much, like many of us he’s very disappointed in humanity Right. now. And so. He’s like, if there’s, you know, he’s I was like, what if your parents got sick? Cause they live in, they live in the Midwest and he was like, [01:02:00] I would probably drive to see them. [01:02:03] I was like, okay. You know? Um, it’s yeah. It’s just figuring out that space and figuring out what we’re going to do. Cause if it’s not that like, I’m supposed to be in Atlanta for our fraternities convention in July, but that’s fine if a way that, that doesn’t feel real yet. [01:02:18] Christina: Right. [01:02:18] Bryan: Atlanta [01:02:19] is not Florida. [01:02:21] Christina: No, it’s not, it’s not, I mean, it’s, it’s people don’t wear masks, but it’s not Florida. Um, [01:02:27] Bryan: So who knows? I’m a lot of it depends on this, you know, the other part is that like every time we think we’re out of it, there’s another [01:02:35] way. It’s just totally. [01:02:37] Christina: Well, and I think for me, and I can think this is why I said that, that at a certain point, the mass were performative and I do kind of stand by that. I understand completely where your critique came in mind. And, and I, and I appreciate that. I think for me though, what I’ve had to come to accept is, and this is what all the experts have told us too, is like, this is not going away. [01:02:56] This will never go away. There are always going to be other waves. [01:03:00] Now there are things that we can do that right there, there are things that we can do to make it better. And hopefully it will dissipate over time. But the, the time when humanity could have eradicated, this is over. So for me, it then does become about, okay, well then how do we figure out how to live with it? [01:03:16] And in some areas it might be about recognizing, as you said, depending on the spread and depending on the other things, having a mask on and doing those sorts of things, but in some areas that might not be what the situation calls for. And even if a situation doesn’t call from that, you don’t know where everybody has ever been. [01:03:33] Right. So, okay. You’re in an area with a low spread and it feels completely fine to not have it have a mask on, but someone who was in an area, you know, with higher spread comes in and even if they were messed up, they could still give it to you. Right. Like, I feel like it’s one of those things where, um, it’s going to be almost impossible to avoid. [01:03:51] And so for me, it’s about like, there will always be a risk. And so it’s just a matter of like having to kind of, you know, put it on yourself. But I feel like that that era, at least for [01:04:00] me, I, I’m no longer willing to. Not go out and not participate, but, but I do respect people who do and people who were struggling with that. [01:04:09] Okay. What would, what would you need? And this is the question I would pose to you. What would you need to see to feel better and to feel like there’s less of a risk need to be zero to hospitalization. It’s mean to be down low. Like what do you need to see where you can like mentally feel? Okay. I guess, going out. [01:04:27] Bryan: that’s a really helpful frame of mind. And I think the thing that I struggled with the most just at this point is that like planes are possibly totally cool because of their high rates of exchange and stuff, you know, that’s awesome. But like, what if they get rid of the mass mandate on planes, you know, um, I can, you know, is it just that maybe I’ll just drive a lot more places as an option or take a train, you know? [01:04:54] Um, who knows, but you’re right. Like Christina idiots, like what is the thing, [01:05:00] you know, that your car that I’m comfortable with, what are the constructions of that that I have to be comfortable with, but then the other part is maybe, maybe I just need to do a little something [01:05:12] Christina: Yeah. [01:05:12] Bryan: to help, like break that, like, to just know that like you can go out, sit outside with your friends without [01:05:17] wearing a mask and you’ll be okay, you know, and you take that [01:05:21] Christina: important. Yes. I think that’s important. Like I had, I had an instance, um, a number of years ago where I was like deeply, my anxiety was really, really high and I’d never had a gore phobia before in my life. And I had a gore phobia and it was. Terrifying for me. And it was awful. And the way that I got over it was my doctor kind of told me, like my shrink told me he was like, you have to force yourself to go out, even when it’s hard and even when it’s uncomfortable. [01:05:49] And so I think that the, what you just said, if you could maybe find a place to be outside with your friends and know that it’s okay, little by little, you might become more comfortable. You can [01:06:00] still have like what your own personal risk assessment is. Right. And you can still make your decision about what type of, you know, um, if you want to do certain types of transportation or, you know, if you want to have like masks in certain places or not. [01:06:12] That pointing like those little step forward might be just as uncomfortable as it is. It might just be a necessity. Um, just, just because, and again, like, this is for you because you’re a social person and you don’t want to be cooped up and, and the world is not like the world is, has we’ve. We’ve basically said we’re done with all of this, whether that’s the right move or [01:06:32] Bryan: It is what it is [01:06:33] Christina: right. [01:06:33] You know what I mean? Like, like whether that’s correct or not, it doesn’t matter. Like the world has decided that it’s no longer, you know, doing that other stuff. So if you want to be part of the world, then, you know, you need to figure out how you can maybe slowly become more comfortable. [01:06:48] Bryan: Yeah. So should we, should we hit our, our, our [01:06:51] Brett: grabs? Oh my God. Do you guys have [01:06:54] time for it? [01:06:55] Bryan: Yeah. [01:06:56] Christina: Yeah. I have time. Do you have time? I know you had a hard out, [01:06:58] Bryan: Yeah, I can do it. [01:06:59] Brett: [01:07:00] Okay. Well, we’ll do a quick, we’ll do a quick, this is the gratitude segment where we talk about great. apps, craps that we are super into this week. Brian, you kick us off. [01:07:12] Bryan: All right. I’m kicking us off with. [01:07:16] T U E um, I love this app. It is an app that lets you create all sorts of, uh, timers and reminders. And the thing about do that is that really like kicked it onto the scene was it has auto snoozing reminders. So what that means is it will go off at a certain time and then it’ll just keep repeating like every five minutes or however long you said it until you mark the thing done. [01:07:44] So this has really been the key for me to like organize a lot of stuff that I struggle with with my ADHD, because it’s always there on the list if I haven’t done it. Yeah. Um, so I love do, it’s a single developer. Who’s been doing it for years. [01:08:00] Um, he’s from Singapore. Uh, I try to find, he’s also like one of those people who doesn’t talk about himself very much. [01:08:07] Like it’s just like the website, but it’s been consistently updated. And since I think this thing launched like 2000 and. 13 or something it’s been around for a long time and regular updates. They’ll come. [01:08:20] Brett: Yeah. I remember duke from way back in the day. Yeah. [01:08:25] Bryan: I loved you so [01:08:26] Brett: much. Yeah. I, so I use a, I use an app called ah, fuck. [01:08:30] I’m just gonna make this, my pick for this week is, uh, um, a safe, let me, let me check the name. Let me check the name. All right. It’s in my recovery folder. Uh, it’s called ma yeah, Medisafe. And it, it gives me reminders when it’s time to take my meds and it doesn’t shut up. In fact, it, it incorporates Apple’s emergency reminders, which even when you’re on, in do not disturb mode [01:09:00] allows it to like set off an alarm. [01:09:02] And so if it’s, if it’s half an hour after the time to take my meds, it can break through my do not serve and be like, Hey, time to take your meds. Yes. And so I never miss my meds and I have to check them off and I can check them off on my watch or my phone whatever’s handy, uh, once I’ve taken them and then it shuts up, but it does not. [01:09:28] Let me forget so Medisafe and you can enter and you can even add like friends, you can add med friends. If you go half an hour without taking your meds, it’ll text your friends to be like, Hey, you should tell your friend to take his meds. And it’s, it’s a perfect system. Like I’ve I have not missed. I had not missed a dose of meds for like years now. [01:09:54] I’ve been using medicine for a couple of years. [01:09:56] Bryan: That’s phenomenal. [01:09:58] Christina: That’s great. [01:09:59] Bryan: [01:10:00] Yeah. [01:10:00] Christina: I actually really liked this idea because I could really, I could really actually benefit from this. Okay. [01:10:06] Bryan: Cause I have to take that 2:00 PM Adderall or I get in a fight. Yeah. [01:10:13] Brett: It’s just good for everybody. [01:10:15] Christina: That’s awesome. [01:10:16] Bryan: All right, Christina, what you got? [01:10:18] Christina: All right. So mine is, uh, audio hijack for which, uh, came out, I think, uh, last week. And, um, I have been using audio hijack for many years, but for a long, long time, my primary way of recording podcasts was actually to use call recorder because it integrated so seamlessly into Skype, but, uh, you know, Skype, um, a call recorder eCampus is not doing that anymore. [01:10:42] And so I’ve been using audio hijack and I looked, I realized version four just came out. It’s a really good update is the first, um, major release in seven years. Which I can’t believe it’s been that long. It’s got a new design and they’ve added some new features. Um, I’d like, I like the new designs of you can now do [01:11:00] scripting by JavaScript that I haven’t totally gotten into, but Jason Sellers written about it. [01:11:04] But I have to say if you’re somebody who does any sort of like recording of audio, whether it’s podcasting or you’re trying to record from other sources and control, you know, inputs coming in on your Mac, it’s a really, really good app. Rogue amoeba is a great company. Um, they do a really good job and, uh, at the time I’m recording this episode right now, uh, [01:11:24] Bryan: Here’s the [01:11:25] Brett: thing. So yes, audio hydro. It’s how I record all of my podcasts as well. It is a central and Rogan MIGA apps in general. I use basically all of them and I would go to bat for rogue amoeba anytime. What bugs me is the added scripting, but they didn’t, they still haven’t added a basic apple script library that lets you load a session via apple script. [01:11:53] Like you can script it internally now, which is amazing. And you can do it opens up a ton of [01:12:00] possibilities, but did have a simple apple script that just says open audio, hijack and load this session and start recording. You still can’t do. And it [01:12:09] drives me insane. [01:12:11] Christina: That is frustrating. Um, they can use has, does it has a, it has shortcut support there. [01:12:16] Brett: Yeah, it does. it. [01:12:17] does. And I have to look into that further. Yes. [01:12:19] for sure. Yeah. Yeah. [01:12:20] Bryan: Jason was talking about that. I, yeah, I’m really interested in looking into that more. I think I’m going to buy one of those stream deck things too. [01:12:28] Brett: Oh, I, I love my, I have multiple stream decks. I love [01:12:32] them. [01:12:34] Christina: Yeah. And actually Jason has on, um, on his blog, six colors has, um, uh, showing how he was able to get it integrated with a stream Jack, um, using keyboard Maestro, um, which is pretty cool. So [01:12:47] Bryan: Jason [01:12:49] Jason’s. Now we can also give one more shout out. We’re going to give one more shout out for our gratitude really quick, and that’s going to be for our good friend, Uh Casey [01:13:00] Liz’s app that he released. Casey. Liz has an app. Oh yes. Um, and it’s called, oh, no. [01:13:10] Brett: Oh no. I [01:13:11] think I’ve used that app. [01:13:13] Bryan: Um, [01:13:13] Christina: Is this massacre. [01:13:15] Bryan: masquerade. [01:13:16] That’s it, it helps you cover [01:13:17] up people’s faces with the mochi. [01:13:19] Brett: Oh, I did see that on [01:13:20] Christina: Yeah. That’s a great idea. That’s a great [01:13:22] Bryan: And I think it’s so much fun and I love playing with that app and just putting emojis on people. I’m the latest update that he put, you can put, [01:13:29] cases. [01:13:31] Christina: Ha ha. That’s [01:13:32] Bryan: Um, so I’m very [01:13:33] excited about that. Awesome. [01:13:36] Christina: really, really good. I like that. Ha ha having, having a KC a sticker that’s okay. I like that. I like that a lot. There should be some sort of like Konami code that like has like a Marco or uh, or a, uh, Syracuse, um, [01:13:47] Bryan: Casey become the next underscore. Add crazy things into your app. Not underscore, [01:13:52] um, James [01:13:54] Christina: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It’d be, be the next name. John Thompson. Yeah, Exactly. [01:13:57] Bryan: Konami code. I love that like [01:14:00] three taps, four swipes and it’s world. [01:14:03] Christina: Exactly. [01:14:04] Bryan: Perfect. This will be micro mode. All right. We’re all [01:14:07] Brett: late for our next thing. So you guys get some sleep, [01:14:11] Bryan: Get some. [01:14:11] sleep. [01:14:12] Christina: get some

The much-requested deep dive into Jeff’s House Purse, another dive into Bonnie Prince Billy, and yet another dive into Brett and Jeff’s favorite apps for the week. It’s a lot of dives considering Christina had to sit this week out. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe—from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. Show Links Husky 14“ Supply Bag Gaffer tape shark cat Tortoise Tortoise and Bonnie Prince Billy Thunder Road I see a Darkness I see a Darkness – joyful version I see a Darkness (Johnny Cash) Taylor Hawkins Foo Fighters – On The Record Molly White Web 3 is going great molly/static-timeline-generator twitter.com/allmybotsgone molly/allmybotsgone wikipedia-work MailMate Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 279 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, welcome to overtired. We, we we’re short, we’re short a man we’re short a woman this week, so it’s me, Brett. Turkstra here with Jeff Severns Gunzel uh, hi. Hi. Hi, [00:00:16] Jeff. We, we are, we’re lacking Christina. She’s she’s going through some transitions at work and she needed a week. Uh, without overtired, I guess, I guess this show was just the, the one thing too much in her week. [00:00:34] Jeff: I will just say I’m new here, but Christina, I’m a see today. [00:00:39] Brett: We all will. It’s just you and me left to fend for ourselves. It’s like a. [00:00:45] Jeff: to systematic. [00:00:50] Brett: Oh, you know, I, stopped, I stopped doing systematic. I put it on hiatus and then decided it was, it was gone because it took so much [00:01:00] effort to schedule gas plan, interview questions, uh, execute, interview questions, edit. [00:01:07] Jeff: to ask you a question about systematic, um, as, as the final guest on that podcast, why did you stop talking so much to developers [00:01:19] Brett: Um, my interests went elsewhere. Like, uh, well, I mean, I love developers and I talked to a lot of, of my favorite developers. Um, I really wanted systematic to, uh, reach a non-tech audience. I didn’t, it was a tech show, but I wanted it to be about human interest and I wanted to talk more? [00:01:47] about mental health and queer issues and, uh, just things that weren’t necessarily developer centric. [00:01:57] It was, that was my vision for the show. [00:02:00] [00:02:00] Jeff: But what was interesting is you, you made a hard switch into those topics rather than, you know, entering them through, uh, the, you know, broad and endless and diverse developer community. It seemed like you just want to, I, as a listener, cause we weren’t, we weren’t friends yet. Um, as a listener, I was like, wow, he must have just really needed to get away from talking about being developer, a developer or talking to developers. [00:02:25] Brett: I don’t know at what point in the Pantheon you entered, but from the very beginning, systematic had organic farmers and actors and, and a lot of non-developer people. [00:02:40] Jeff: Yeah. Well, let me look at my, um, updated overcast app. I’m going to actually look back and tell you how this is such a great app, by the way. I’m just going to say that. Um, but we’ll keep, we’ll keep talking. So I’m okay. So here’s, cause here’s why I ask is I came on, it must’ve been 2013 [00:03:00] that I started listening to systematic, I think. [00:03:03] Um, and for me that was a Renaissance period in how I used my computer. I was returning to ways in which I had loved to use my computer, um, and making my computer more sort of central to my work and my life. And, and a lot of that was I, I hate the term, but a lot of that was about becoming sort of a power user. [00:03:25] Right. Um, I don’t love the term, but I totally, I embrace it for the sake of its universality. [00:03:32] Brett: Sure it’s easily understood. [00:03:34] Jeff: Yes. And, and I think probably I was listening to, um, the accidental tech podcast, which was fairly young at the time, mostly because I’m just love listening to John Syracuse to talk about, um, the tech and talk about, you know, like the real, like, sort of inner, um, computing business that he, he seems to understand and have a sort of history with the lived [00:04:00] experience of love that stuff. [00:04:01] And I listened to too, um, oh, oh, Mac power users, I suppose that would have been it. And your name would just come up over and over. Like, I wasn’t listening to you first. I was listening to all these other power users. I think I was listening to Gruber’s show or whatever. Um, and, and your name, who the hell is this Turkstra character. [00:04:21] And so then I went to your podcast and what I loved about it was that not only. Did I learn about a million apps that would become total staples for me, Scribner’s a great example. Like you had such a great in-depth interview with the creator of Scrivener and I was still kind of inspired just by the story of how it was created. [00:04:42] And by listening to the two of you talk and what I most loved about listening to developers talk to each other, was that like, so I’m a journalist and I mean, by training, I, don’t not really a journalist anymore, but what I love about being a journalist is letting the language of an unfamiliar world wash [00:05:00] over me and, and kind of pick up the seashells as the tide goes away. [00:05:05] Right. And, and your podcast when you were talking to developers was so great for that. And I was learning about these different kinds of people doing this work in a way that I could never have imagined. So I loved it when you switched. I loved all the topics I loved the people you were talking to. I enjoyed the conversations, but man, I missed you talking to developers. [00:05:27] Brett: So, so, okay. So the interview with Keith Blount, uh, happened what year? This was 2013. The very next interview was with a playwright [00:05:39] Jeff: Oh, no, I know you sprinkled it in, but like, I felt like there was a period with systematic where you just straight stopped talking to developers. [00:05:47] Brett: then that Merlin man character was next. [00:05:50] Jeff: Okay. Yeah. I’ve heard of him. [00:05:51] Brett: I never, it didn’t happen. You’re wrong. [00:05:55] Jeff: I’m wrong. It wasn’t a sweat. It wasn’t that much of a switch. I feel like you went away and when you came [00:06:00] back, it was much more focused on kind of, it was like a humanities podcast in a good way. [00:06:05] Brett: That is, that is, that is, that is what I wanted to do with it. Yes. [00:06:10] Jeff: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And somewhere in there you did the John Rodrick, uh, open. That was fun. And that was what I loved about that is it was very similar to your, the way you talk to developers. You just, you were kind of breaking down a story into its, into its fundamental parts and, and the person who lived that story was telling it, right. [00:06:30] Like that’s how the developer interviews felt to me. Cause they were always about like the lived experience of having created this great tool. I’m not lamenting. I’m just, I was just curious the question I’ve always had, maybe some of the listeners have had that question too. [00:06:44] Brett: So I feel like this dovetails into mental health. [00:06:48] and to our mental health corner. Like, [00:06:50] Jeff: Everything dovetails [00:06:51] Brett: let it go of systematic was a mental health decision for me. So, um, how’s your mental health, Jeff. [00:06:59] Jeff: Um, it [00:07:00] is, it is very good. I’m I, I, I think I said last week, there’s a sort of a medication transition and like, it seems to be working for me. Um, and. I feel very even, and I feel very able to just kind of attack my work from day to day attack is too strong a word, but because it actually is way too strong a board because what’s nice is, you know, sometimes like you have to just like really, really force yourself to do the work that’s necessary. [00:07:33] Right. Like I have this thing I need to do. It’s it’s been too long. I’m I’m at, or past the deadline. I got to grind and do this work. Right. That wasn’t how last week felt last week just felt like, yeah, here are these four things that are really important that I really struggled to like really wrap my arms around for too long. [00:07:53] And I’m just gonna like take them one by one and go through them. And it was one of those weeks where that worked and. [00:08:00] Really, um, it felt great. And I also, I have this thought about mental health and, and, and how are you and that kind of stuff. Right? Like a friend of mine who I haven’t heard from in awhile reached out, said how you doing? [00:08:14] You know, and I, I answered in terms of kind of similar to what I just did. Like, you know, there’s, there was a sort of diagnosis, confusion. I’ve, I’ve changed some medication. Oh, I’ve got a new therapist, you know, and that friend’s response was so beautiful because it wasn’t direct, but what it, what it made me feel so completely was that’s not really the way to answer, how are you doing, right. [00:08:41] Like, there is not a wrong way, right? Like it’s a really important part about how I’m doing right. It’s like a critical, critical part about how I’m doing, but it’s only in the terms of symptoms and, and not something more sort of core to who I am. And I haven’t. [00:09:00] I’m trying to digest this. I got this response just yesterday and I’m like, man. [00:09:03] Yeah, I did respond only in terms of sort of systems and like very like human centered frameworks. Right? Like this is a problem and this is how we’ll fix it. And, and I’m not really sure. I know how to answer the question from a different space. [00:09:21] Brett: I was going to say like, I don’t, I don’t know what the alternative is either. I’m going to, I’m going to brush you off with a, Hey, I’m fine. Or I’m good. Or I’m going to list out symptoms. I’m going to list out like the very, the, the details of why I am the way I am. I don’t know how else to answer that question. [00:09:41] Jeff: But in a way, what you just said is like, there’s two ways I can answer this. I can lie to you to get this over with, or I can give you a list of symptoms. Right. And like, it feels like there’s definitely something in there. And I would imagine that for many people, that’s a, probably the. pathway to answering that question is through [00:10:00] religion or a form of spirituality. [00:10:02] I’m not even sure that’s true for me at this point, but I just like, I like the puzzle of being like, can I, what can I access? And, and what can I sort of, I don’t have to communicate it. Doesn’t have to be turned into words. Like that’s probably why we don’t have an answer. Is that the, like, how am I doing that? [00:10:19] Can’t be expressed. Can’t be expressed. It’s like something that’s felt right. I don’t know if I’m getting way, way out there and we will land, but it was a thought I had. Ha how has your mental health Brett? [00:10:32] Brett: Oh man. So I, I went from on the Vyvanse. I went from like, uh, a little bit overwhelmed by it. Like Keith grindy to it. Once again, basically doing nothing. Um, [00:10:46] I am. I am okay with that. It’s better. It’s better than truly nothing. And it’s not triggering bipolar episodes. And for me, that [00:11:00] is that’s going to be the sweet spot. [00:11:01] It might not be the most, uh, focus, uh, friendly place emotion, or like mentally, but it is far more productive than like weeks without sleep and, and depression. And if I can remove those from the equation and still have a little bit more focused than usual, that’s that’s, that’s going to be, I’m pretty sure after years of experimentation, I’m pretty sure that’s the best I can hope for. [00:11:34] Jeff: You, when did you first start taking medications related to mental health and, and not counting like drugs, right. But like stuff that’s prescribed. Well, no seriously. Right? Cause like that’s an [00:11:48] Brett: Yeah. Yeah, no, I was, I self medicated for a long time with undiagnosed issues, but I started taking meds for bipolar when I was 22. [00:11:59] Jeff: [00:12:00] Okay. [00:12:00] Brett: I can’t give you a year, but I can give you an age. [00:12:03] Jeff: So here’s the questions because for me, I didn’t, I started taking, um, sertraline or Zoloft, um, right at the beginning of the pandemic. I mean, not because of the pandemic, but literally right at the beginning of the pandemic. And that was my first, that was the first time I had any kind of medication prescribed to me for my mental health. [00:12:22] And, um, now that I’ve gone through kind of a transition recently, I have different medications and I have more and, and I am realizing that I am constantly conscious of the fact that I am, uh, running on medications. And, and I know that that. That’s not a really, like, it’s not really a healthy way to think about it. [00:12:49] Right. Um, and I do recognize that, like, there’s a F I totally took the opposite view. I would say I’m, I’m working because of medications and not, not like I’m running [00:13:00] on them. Right. It’s like, it’s like, uh, you know, like diabetes, you’re not producing enough of this. So you, you add a little bit of insulin. [00:13:08] Right. Like, I know that that’s kind of how to think about it, but I’m, I’m still in a phase where every time I pick up the pills to take them, I just feel a little bit like heavy. Cause I’m just like, Oh, I have to do this. Like if I don’t do this act right now, it’s very unpredictable. What will happen? Just because they’re not medications, you can just stop. [00:13:30] Right. It’s not so much like my mental health, but like, and so I’m curious if you have had phases where you feel that way, where you just feel that, that much, like you kind of, you have these things running through you and they’re, that’s why they’re part of the answer of how are you, right. Or having done it for so long. [00:13:48] Is it more like you’ve taken a vitamin. [00:13:51] Brett: So I never had this stigma, uh, this like I’m with, if I’m on medication, I’m not really [00:14:00] me, this idea that, um, that it’s like that it’s, uh, a crutch, we’ll say, um, I never had that stigma. In fact, I like of my own accord came to believe that, uh, I had to be on drugs. And this was like, you know, after years of heroin addiction and years of cocaine abuse and drinking, and like, I didn’t think I could function without something. [00:14:31] So when I was first prescribed drugs, that actually helped me without intoxicating me. Like that just immediately felt right to me. Like I never had a period where. Like I’ve had periods where I questioned, okay. Is this actually doing its job anymore? I wondered what, what would happen to me right now? [00:14:53] If I stopped taking this, like, I’ve always had those questions, but I’ve never had that, like that feeling [00:15:00] that I exist. I oh, the current me only exists because of drugs. Like I’ve always considered them just an enhancement, I guess. [00:15:12] Jeff: Yeah, I guess I wonder why I’m not there as much as I would think I would. Cause I don’t, [00:15:17] Brett: it sounds like you had a pre-existing stigma, like, uh, some kind of resistance built up. [00:15:23] Jeff: Yeah, I think, but I had a stigma. I didn’t ha here’s the thing that’s confusing about that to me is like the stigma. I don’t believe the stigma was either. I shouldn’t take medications and if I do, it’s a weakness and it certainly wasn’t something I directed at other people. Like I’ve, I’ve been most people in my life on some kind of medication, and I’ve never thought isn’t that sad that you’re powered by medicine, right? [00:15:47] Like, or whatever, by medication. And, and yet for me, it clear, it’s clear that there’s some other definition of stigma that I’m operating under. Cause when you first started talking, I thought, well, it’s [00:16:00] really just about relationship with myself. Like I didn’t do drugs for a long time. Um, I mean, I’ve never done hard drugs. [00:16:06] Like I’ve, I’ve had some edibles and only in the last year. Um, and until then I know drugs, I’m going to surrounded by people using hard drugs, much of my life. Um, but just never did it for whatever weird reason why was not straight at just purely clear. It wasn’t like a ideological thing. It just didn’t happen. [00:16:26] And so it might in part be that I had internalized some sense of almost purity or something that when I started taking medications, I was glad for it from day one. Right? Like there was never a point where I’m like, oh, it’s so sad that this is what it takes to make me feel good. I was all on board, but something about adding a medication, switching medications recently, I’ve just felt like I am Jeff who walks around with medication in him. [00:16:59] [00:17:00] And, and I, I want to note that, cause I’d like to, I’d like to note when I don’t feel that way anymore. [00:17:08] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. It’s got a R I feel for you that’s that’s gotta be a bit of a weight to carry. Um, [00:17:16] Jeff: And I’m honest about it. Like I’m not, I tell people I’m on medication. Cause I just, I really believe in normalizing it, you know? Like, I mean, look at what I’m doing here. I don’t know who the hell is listening now or in the future. Right. I kids. But, um, but anyway, uh, here’s the transition though? Part of it is that in my house purse. [00:17:37] Brett: Okay. Wait, I want to tell you about home security and then we’re [00:17:40] Jeff: yeah. Go, go, Go, go, [00:17:41] Brett: we’re going to dive into Jeff’s house. Pers [00:17:46] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:17:46] Brett: what do us news, PC magazine and popular science. They all ranked simply save home security as the best home security of 2021. In fact, us news, just named simply safe. The best home security of [00:18:00] 2022 as well. [00:18:02] Simply say, protect your whole home around the clock. Every door, window, and room. It’s backed by the best 24 7 professional monitoring in the business. Ready to dispatch police, firefighters, or EMT to your home with a comprehensive set of sensors and cameras, including the all-new wireless outdoor security camera. [00:18:21] You always know what’s going on inside and outside your home simply safe is less than a dollar a day and you can set it up and around 30 minutes. And it’s always simple to use, simply say protects over a million homes in the United States alone, and your should be one of them. There’s never a long-term contract. [00:18:40] You can even try it for 60 days. Risk-free to see if you like it. And if you don’t just send it back free of charge, you can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash overtired. That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com. go, [00:19:00] today and claim a free indoor security camera. [00:19:02] Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. go. [00:19:05] to simply safe.com/overtired. [00:19:10] The House Purse Revisited [00:19:10] Brett: I would just like to note that when people hear that read, I did that in one take did not mess up a single line. There were no [00:19:18] Jeff: yeah, that’s true. That’s true. [00:19:21] Brett: I could easily be lying. I could easily have thoroughly edited what people just heard, but vouch for me. [00:19:28] I just did that basically perfectly. [00:19:31] Jeff: You could have, for example, as one of the hosts of this show, did describe the benefits of simply save through describing services. They do not provide. [00:19:41] Brett: Yeah, W w we’ll call it aspirational descriptions. [00:19:46] Jeff: Yeah, man. Yeah. Consider it feature requests. Um, [00:19:52] Brett: So anyway. Well, okay. Yeah. Let’s Jeff talked about in, I believe it was your first [00:20:00] episode on overtired. You talked about this idea of a house purse, a bag containing everything. Well, okay. Let’s we got a lot of questions about it in discord and on Twitter. Let’s rewind. Tell us what the house verses, and then we’re going to dive into it because people had a lot of questions about what was in it, what the actual bag was, et cetera. [00:20:23] Jeff: I really appreciate people’s interests. I’m actually trying to locate the bag. Now. There it is. Um, okay. How’s pers, first of all, why are we talking about a house purse? Why is there a guy in Minneapolis, Minnesota who has one and happens to also have a podcast, uh, accessibility to talk about it? The Husky. [00:20:45] 14 inch supply bag, which you can buy at home Depot or other places is my house purse. So if you want to kind of get it, we’ll put a link in the show notes. We’re want to look at it. Basically what you’re talking about is like picture like a, I’m not exactly a [00:21:00] tote bag, kind of like a, how would you describe this thing? [00:21:02] It’s like, it’s a bag that is, um, you could probably fit, uh, two gallons of milk in. And, and it has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 pockets on the outside that you could fit in any one of those, you could fit a water bottle. It’s like, it’s almost like it’s shaped for that. Right. Or a bottle of Pepto-Bismol in my case, which we’ll get to, I had this problem where I was leaving shit all over the house. [00:21:34] The book I was reading would be upstairs in the bedroom. The journal I had been writing in would be like kicked underneath the couch, downstairs in my office. I’d have my meds. You never have a scissors Parris scissors. Right. [00:21:48] Brett: That’s such an Minnesota, a scissors. Thank you. Thank you for correcting yourself like the [00:21:54] Jeff: Yeah, no problem. No problem. [00:21:57] Brett: what do You call what do you call to scissors though? [00:22:00] Is that a is that a pair of a pair of scissors? [00:22:03] Jeff: You call that a Queens riddle. [00:22:08] Brett: All right. Continue. [00:22:10] Jeff: So I had this problem, which is like, I’m leaving stuff all over. I never have what I want at my side, wherever I’ve settled in and where I’ve settled in would have been my bed, my couch, my office, or the basement where the video games are. And, um, and so I thought, well, I had this Husky tool bag. I wasn’t using it. [00:22:29] And I’d thought, I’d try it out. Put let’s just like put everything and let it lay out what I think I need find a place for it in the house purse. This is fascinating content. Um, and, uh, and, and test it out. And so I have, now I can proudly say that I’m three or four weeks into this current layout of my house person, I suppose, the best way to give a tour of it is to tell you what’s in it. [00:22:53] Brett: Yes. [00:22:54] Jeff: So we’ll just take it external pockets first. Okay. Again, these are about the [00:23:00] size of seeing put a water bottle in them. Okay. Um, What we have is I have my belt in one, because not all my pants require me to wear a belt because one of my medications is causing me to gain weight. So I don’t ever have my belt when I need it. [00:23:17] Cause I wasn’t wearing it previously. So that goes in one pocket. Okay. Next pocket. I’m just going through it here. We got, oh, every kind of pen and marker you would ever want. Even my, um, my apple pencil for my shattered screened, iPad. [00:23:34] Brett: does that work? [00:23:36] Jeff: it doesn’t, it just works to make me sad. Uh, so I got markers, pens, pencils, right? [00:23:41] Can’t can’t have enough of those. Then I got a water bottle. I got a USB speaker, roughly the size of a can of soda in there for if I want to listen to a podcast. And I don’t feel like, you know, fake. How to make Siri understand me, because apparently we don’t speak the same language and apparently she has no [00:24:00] knowledge of my preferences or habits after almost a decade of being together. [00:24:04] Brett: It’s your thick Minnesota accent throws her off. [00:24:07] Jeff: That might be it. Then we’ve got a pocket that just has my wallet. I throw my watch in there when I’m tired of wearing it. It’s got my headphones, my AirPods in it. Right. And it’s where my phone goes. Got another pot packet. We got some Kleenex, tuber, Kleenex, like those tubes, like you put in your, uh, your, uh, your soda carrier and your car. [00:24:24] God, I feel like this is how many listeners are you going to lose because of the second episode dedicated to the house pers uh, then, and this is important. This is very important. Then I got a roll of gaffers tape. Okay. Not duct tape. Gaffer’s tape. Right. Okay. Brett, why is gaffer’s tape? Great. You seem excited. [00:24:44] Brett: doesn’t leave residue. It will a fixed to anything without being permanent. It’s easier to cut. It’s less messy. I just, I love Gavin. It costs like three times as much, but I used to [00:25:00] work in the theater department at the university of Minnesota and I fell in love with gaffer’s tape And I, I love duct tape. [00:25:08] It’s great stuff. But if I want, if I want to be classy, I’m using gaffer’s tape. [00:25:16] Jeff: And you can go to gaffer power.com/over tired for 15% off your first half inch black roll of [00:25:22] Brett: Oh man. I just, I got my first eight pack of half-inch rolls for the first time in 2021, I had always only ordered what [00:25:32] Jeff: you are a gaffer tape person. [00:25:34] Brett: Yeah. [00:25:35] Jeff: Okay. So you can understand why someone would want this on a thing. They call their house [00:25:39] Brett: Yeah. [00:25:40] Jeff: Yeah. Because you’d never know. And I got two kids, teenagers for God’s sake, you know, you need to tape those guys up sometimes. So the other thing I use this for actually is I label like storage bins and stuff with gaffer tape and a paint marker. [00:25:53] Thanks for asking. Uh, okay. Now we’re into what my transition was, which is I’ve had to use one of the two [00:26:00] large outside pockets for my meds. I. Uh, I had added one, one thing of meds. And so I’ve got, this is where it looks a little bit like an old man’s like this should be like, basically hung on the back of my Walker. [00:26:14] Uh, it’s got my prescription pills and then there’s another one that’s just dedicated to Pepto-Bismol because one of these medications gives me heartburn. Oh God. So that’s the outside, right? Like it’s the kind of stuff that like, you would have to get up off the couch and put your book down and I have to go walk and find, or you’d have to ask when your kids they’d grab it for you and they’d Huff and puff. [00:26:36] And then you lost a little bit of your cache for the next time you need something. Cause they won’t forget that they got you. That Pepto Bismal right [00:26:44] Brett: Yeah. [00:26:44] Jeff: inside. I got two books. I’m reading. I got one main book I’m reading and then a book that’s more of a kind of, if I got 10 minutes to read, I pick it up and read it. [00:26:54] I got a planner. I got a. I got, this is where I’m insane, but it’s only there because I think it’s [00:27:00] funny. I have a flashlight, but I also have a UV flashlight. We’ve had a bit of a, we’ve had a bit of a mouse problem. And the thing about UV flashlights as the packaging told me was that it’s helpful for seeing body fluids. [00:27:15] And when you have boys, when you have boys, it’s helpful to demonstrate just how much of the pee doesn’t go into the toilet. Okay. Uh, and we have a little bit of a mouse problem here, and now they mostly don’t get anywhere because of our cats, but I’ve used this to kind of discover where some of the mice might be. [00:27:32] All right. Then I got a big old charge and battery, a lot of different cables. I got a pair of scissors just as I spoke of before. And finally, finally, and tell me, you haven’t been in a situation where you could not find your deodorant and you did not smell good. [00:27:48] Brett: I have an extra, I have a miniature, it’s like two inches by two inches stick of deodorant that I keep in the car because that’s the place that I always am. [00:27:58] Jeff: Oh yeah, [00:27:59] Brett: I [00:28:00] realize I forgot to put on deodorant. [00:28:02] Jeff: that’s right. So I have a thing, a deodorant. That’s the house person, everybody. Now I’m going to tell you right now, I recognize already from the get, this is an eccentric thing that I have a house purse, but I will tell you I never feel more eccentric and maybe a little bit embarrassed than when I go to bed with my house purse, because it’s kind of like I say goodbye to people, but I’ve got like my work bag and I go upstairs, set it down by the side of the bed, go to sleep. [00:28:29] My laptop’s in there too. [00:28:30] Brett: That just seems efficient. [00:28:32] Jeff: I think it’s brilliant. You know, my in-laws are in town and I, I told them all about the house. I showed them. They were very impressed, very impressed by this idea. [00:28:40] Brett: it is impressive. Thank you for detailing. I feel like, I feel like that tour of its current contents gives people probably a better idea than any summary description could of what exactly this is and what purpose it serves. [00:28:55] Jeff: And I’ll say that I’ve never said the inspiration, the inspiration is the mom [00:29:00] purse of the 1980s, those big ass purses that had everything you could ever imagine in them, no matter where you were. That’s that’s what I wanted, but I wanted it at home. [00:29:09] Brett: Right. And with more pockets. So it didn’t take you five minutes to find the crackers. [00:29:14] Jeff: Yeah, you can look down on this. You could see everything, nothing closes up, nothing zips up. It’s all visible. [00:29:20] Brett: Yeah, I love it. Yeah. So, um, I’m I’m uh, I get, I, I had a 65 inch television. [00:29:31] Jeff: Whoa, that’s a nice [00:29:32] Brett: Yeah, I, I, this isn’t a segue. [00:29:34] like we’re talking about houses and we’re talking about stuff. We carry with us. Anyway. I had a 65 inch TV and it was too big for my artistic girlfriend. Um, she, it. [00:29:49] would visually overwhelm her very easily and, and we could watch like one show in the evening and then. [00:29:57] I’m just going to disappear to my room, [00:30:00] turn up the lights and I’ll be in the Derrick. I’ll see you tomorrow and not ideal. So I had traded that in for like a 32 inch, uh, TV that we mounted in our relatively small living room. Like 65 inches was too big for this room, but it was the kind of two big that me with my ADHD need for like excessive stimulation I could, I could get into she couldn’t. [00:30:28] So we compromised, we got a, we got a reasonable sized TV for the size of the room and. I traded my 65 inch TV to my parents for their 55 inch TV. Um, they, they wanted a, they wanted a bigger TV. I said, I’m not going to use this outrageous. So I’ve had this 55 inch TV sitting in my basement for maybe eight months. [00:30:56] Now. I finally cleaned out enough [00:31:00] space in my basement to set up the TV, uh, set up an area rug. And, uh, I’m using a moon pod. I need a couch, but I’m building a little den where I can go to watch TV on a big screen when I don’t, when I want to stay out of L’s way. [00:31:19] Jeff: Building a den. [00:31:20] Brett: Yes. And, and I just ordered a bunch of like, I want us, um, okay. [00:31:26] I need to get a love seat, but I want a side table with outlets and USB ports, and I need an Ottoman. So I have a place to like kick back and rest my feet. I need a sound system, but here’s the catch is I need it to be a sound system that isn’t so Boomi that you can hear it upstairs. [00:31:50] Jeff: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s the thing. [00:31:52] Brett: I want, I want shit to sound good with, without bothering people on other floors of the house. [00:31:59] Jeff: [00:32:00] Do you have exposed a floor as your ceiling? [00:32:03] Brett: yes. [00:32:04] Jeff: So, [00:32:05] Brett: is. It is a basement basement classic basement. [00:32:08] Jeff: but that’s good. Cause you can, you can stuff that which will, which will buy you a little bit of extra volume. Uh, and you could, you know, you don’t have to put a whole drywall thing on, you can do whatever you want, but like, you know what the fiberglass fallen on you, but you stuffed that nice and tight. [00:32:26] Oh man, you’ll be able to get a little more violent unless you’ve got a doorway that’s like a major and, and, and clear feature of this space meant a doorway to the upstairs. You got like some wind, wind and stairs. What’s your situation [00:32:43] Brett: uh, the stairs come down, you turn left. It’s all open. There’s no walls. Uh, you walk one, the equivalent of one room over and you’re in my den. There’s no wall. There’s no door between me and the stairs.[00:33:00] [00:33:00] Jeff: and what’s right above you. [00:33:02] Brett: Uh, let me see the, the living room. [00:33:06] Jeff: Okay. Yeah, that might be a tough one. Might be able to not a good use of money. But it might make a difference. I’m telling you it made him crazy, distant, different than we refinished our basement. I was amazed. [00:33:17] Brett: I like I’ve considered building, like, so if I ran the cables out to where I sit, if this room is only ever intended for one person, the speakers don’t have to fill the whole room. The speakers could be directed to the one place I will ever sit in this room and I could build a little surround sound system around this like four foot square space. And then the volume could be low, but I could still get surround with like bass and everything. [00:33:54] Jeff: I can ask you a cultural question. [00:33:56] Brett: Okay. [00:33:57] Jeff: Why are you calling this a den? [00:33:59] Brett: Because [00:34:00] man-cave really bugs me. [00:34:01] Jeff: Oh no, I’m I that’s great. Yeah. Kill the man cave forever. Um, but still you went to Dell. What is a den in your life? Did your, was there a den in your house growing [00:34:14] Brett: I have never had a Denton. This is just what I assumed to Dan was [00:34:19] Jeff: for me, dens are where your stepdads go to be away from everybody, [00:34:23] Brett: right. Which is, this is a place I go to [00:34:25] Jeff: but I guess, yeah. [00:34:26] And I guess it’s got a T I always my, for me in my, in my life, it was always like, uh, you know, there was a desk and there was like a second office basically. And maybe there was like a reading. [00:34:36] Brett: Yeah. [00:34:37] Jeff: All right. All right. What you’ve got here is an entertainment room. [00:34:41] Brett: Yes, I’m fine. I’m fine with that. But it is a secondary, it is an auxiliary auxiliary entertainment room. It is the [00:34:51] Jeff: you a question? Do you intend to have a bulletin board made of wine corks? [00:34:57] Brett: I do not [00:34:58] Jeff: Okay. So it’s not a game room.[00:35:00] [00:35:00] Brett: know. And that’s like, there’s There are no arcade machines. There’s no dartboard. There’s no bulletin board. [00:35:07] Jeff: There are no other means. [00:35:08] Brett: No other men and no one else will ever be invited into this room. It is split. There is a table with a yarn winder and a sewing machine that are not, they are not part of my entertainment room, but I did think the room to make the best use of the space should be split with ELLs craft needs. [00:35:31] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. Well [00:35:33] Brett: I doubt those. [00:35:34] Jeff: dials down the like what people call a man cave. It dials that down [00:35:40] Brett: It really does. It really. [00:35:42] Jeff: as nice. [00:35:43] Brett: It really, it really removes the, the gender specific, uh, uh, stereotypes from the room. I, uh, I will, it’ll probably never serve both purposes at the same time. Um, although her, her [00:36:00] yarn winder, I got it for her for like, I think Christmas or a birthday one year. And it is it’s it’s can crank, but it’s 10 times faster than winding yarn [00:36:12] Jeff: That sounds [00:36:13] Brett: into balls on your own. [00:36:14] Yeah, it’s really cool. It’s almost silent. I actually enjoy watching it work. It’s very [00:36:19] Jeff: I’m sure. [00:36:21] Brett: Um, anyway. [00:36:23] Jeff: Now I’m thinking what you got is kind of a craft room entertainment center. [00:36:27] Brett: Yeah. [00:36:28] Jeff: You don’t. Yeah. [00:36:29] Brett: a crafter attainment center. [00:36:31] Jeff: Yeah. Well, let me tell you, if you’re looking for a advice on speakers, there are plenty of men online who are happy to tell you both what you might do and what you’re an idiot for thinking you will do. [00:36:42] Brett: Friend of the show, Victor, a graded Jr. Recommended Samsung Bluetooth speakers. So I didn’t have to run wires everywhere. Uh, that sounded good to me, but I didn’t ask him for a specific link. He just in general said, Samsung, Bluetooth speakers. My [00:37:00] cat is pointing at me right now and I don’t know what he wants. [00:37:04] Um, I had breakfast with my folks, my breakfast with my folks this morning. We did not talk at all about evolution, which meant that the breakfast lasted a full hour. Um, but the topic of cats came up and then the topic of robotic vacuums. And obviously have you you know, sharp cat. [00:37:26] Jeff: Yeah. I assume next it’s animals on top of robotic. Uh, what I want to know is what’s after that, [00:37:34] Brett: that was taxes. Um, but I had the pleasure of showing my mom shark cat for the very first time. And it, it wasn’t, it wasn’t entertaining for me. I’d already had my run was shark cat, but it was delightful to see the look on her face when she realized that, [00:37:53] sharp cat was a thing [00:37:55] Jeff: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. It’s nice. When you can not only [00:38:00] manage to avoid the topics that tear you apart, but maybe even bring a little joy. [00:38:06] Brett: I actually have on our topic list, a guy named Paul . And I’m not sure we’ve ever talked about, I think I mentioned apology before, but he’s a YouTube creator that he does. Uh, he, his name is Paul. And, and apology is a play on apologist apologetics abolished. Apologies. Apologies. No, I’m [00:38:34] Jeff: didn’t do that in one take. [00:38:40] Brett: Why can’t I think of the word Apollo it’s apology, like [00:38:44] Jeff: No it’s apologetics. [00:38:45] Brett: Thank you, apologetics. Um, and he, basically, his tagline is a former Christian takes a look at the, the claims of Christians and he does it very methodically and calmly. [00:39:00] And most of the time, not even snarky just takes a very, very thorough look at here’s what’s, you know, historically accurate here is what, uh, scholars, both secular and Christian. [00:39:17] Say about this topic. And, and here is my synopsis and he did a series of responses to a video series on, uh, disproving evolution. And he did responses to it. And it is, I’ve written this four page email to my father, uh, after, after the last blow up after he told me that there was no evidence for evolution. [00:39:50] Um, and I like I’m, I had a meltdown just because. Blew my mind. Um, I included apology [00:40:00] as videos. Uh, this four-part series in that email because, because of its lack of snarkiness, but you can find plenty of people out. [00:40:09] there that will contend with creationist views on evolution and shoot them down, but they will do it meanly and they will do it. [00:40:20] Snarkily and I wanted someone who could calmly present. Here’s what you’re saying. Here’s why evidence shows you to be wrong. And pology is he’s the guy, he’s the guy for this. And, and I became a Patriot supporter after I realized that this was how I wanted to communicate with my father to be fair. I not sent the email and I have not broken the seal of like, we’re just to disagree because if I’m going to send this email, I have to admit that my goal is [00:41:00] to make my father a Christian who believes in evolution. Like I ha I have to [00:41:06] Jeff: There are some, there are some models for that out there. [00:41:08] Brett: really there. there. [00:41:10] Jeff: I’m not sorry that laughter is not laughing at him or your situation. I just, I [00:41:14] Brett: His, [00:41:15] Jeff: like, [00:41:16] Brett: his arguments come from ignorance and he’s making arguments that haven’t changed in a hundred years. And the science of evolution has, [00:41:26] Jeff: Would you say that the argument has not evolved? [00:41:29] Brett: I would say absolutely the argument has failed to evolve. Um, and, and I want my dad, my, I consider my dad are very intelligent person, and I want him to at least understand what he’s arguing against because his current arguments come straight from ignorance, like a complete lack of understanding of what evolution actually is. [00:41:56] And it it’s infuriating and [00:42:00] apology does such a good job of explaining it. Plus, man, I, I can binge apology, uh, videos for hours. Uh, it like my parents like completely on the side, like just his, and he does debates now. Like he’s gotten to be a big enough name that some of the big Christian YouTube burgers will bring him on and have live debates and, and it’s, he’s so respectful and thorough. [00:42:34] It’s hard not to like the guy. He’s just [00:42:36] Jeff: That’s cool. It’s nice that someone like that exists. [00:42:40] Brett: Yeah. it really is. [00:42:42] Jeff: yeah, [00:42:44] Brett: Plus he’s so he’s so good at proving he’s right about things. It’s very satisfact, satis satisfying to [00:42:52] Jeff: I liked that you, I liked that you added that in, it’s sort of like how those discussions with parents can go. You kind of get to a stopping point and you’re like, plus God [00:43:00] dammit. I’m right. [00:43:00] Brett: Right, Yeah. Yeah, because you don’t have, you don’t have the benefit in the moment of having all the research laid out till like really drive home your point and they get a chance to respond, which is with YouTube video. My favorite YouTube videos are always reaction videos. Um, and I, I [00:43:21] Jeff: don’t believe half of them and I love them just the [00:43:24] Brett: I am no problem with reactions to reactions and these videos, they go back and forth between creators and like, I kind of enjoy seeing people’s responses to responses, to responses, [00:43:37] Jeff: right, right. [00:43:38] Brett: it’s a conversation and I’m here for it. [00:43:41] I love it. [00:43:42] Jeff: Totally. That’s awesome. [00:43:46] Brett: All right. Your topic, pick a topic. [00:43:48] Jeff: Okay. I feel like I should pick one [00:43:51] Brett: Oh, wait, let me do, let me do one more sponsor [00:43:54] Jeff: Oh yeah. Do it, do [00:43:55] Brett: and then it’s free reign, whatever you want to do [00:43:59] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:43:59] Brett: . [00:44:00] Hey there, who doesn’t want to live well to be perfectly at ease in comfort and style hunter Douglas can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control system. [00:44:12] So advanced, they can be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. Perhaps it’s the way the shades diffuse her sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room, or being able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside. Maybe it’s the superior insulation that shades. [00:44:34] Keeping a warmer in winter cooler in summer and lowering utility bills, or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it. [00:44:44] just looks and feels right? When you tap into hunter Douglas is power view technology. Your shades can be set to automatically repositioned for the perfect balance of light privacy and insulation morning, noon, and night. [00:44:59] [00:45:00] So live beautifully with hunter Douglas, enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunter douglas.com/overtired today for your free style gets smarter design guide with fresh takes creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. [00:45:20] That’s hunter douglas.com/overtired for your free design guide. Check it out. [00:45:28] Bonnie Prince [00:45:28] Brett: All right, [00:45:29] Jeff: One take Johnny. [00:45:30] Brett: man, I’m killing it today. [00:45:34] Jeff: One of my favorite albums is this album, uh, with the band tortoise and, and the singer will Oldham or Bonnie prince Billy. [00:45:44] Brett: Oh, wait, wait, whoa. This is news to me. I love Bonnie prince Billy, but [00:45:49] Jeff: Oh, you do? Oh my God. I’m a, I’m a huge, [00:45:51] Brett: He I’m a huge fan, but I never heard of tortoise. [00:45:54] Jeff: Okay. So tortoise is a Chicago band instrumental. Um, [00:46:00] first album came out in the, like, I think it was early nineties, maybe mid, probably mid nineties. [00:46:08] And it was like, I don’t know if you were more like into hardcore and serious punk rock in those days. I think, but for me, they were, they were the beginning of the emergence of a kind of. More humanistic mathy indie rock. So it wasn’t just like hard edges mathy, which I like just fine. It was just, it could be pretty and, and there was no singer, so it meant you didn’t have to deal with email lyrics. [00:46:35] Anyway, they, they were a fascinatingly interesting band, a couple bass players. It was a very bass heavy sound for the first couple of albums. They added vibraphone. Uh, then it was some synthesizers. Anyway, they make beautiful music and, and, and interesting and innovative music as an instrumental group. [00:46:57] And at one point they, [00:47:00] um, joined up with will Oldham or Bonnie Billy, and, and made a cover album that I’m pretty sure is not streaming on all the surf services, but it has a cover of, uh, Daniel by, um, set out in John Daniel, uh, thunder road by Bruce Springsteen. Um, I think they do a misfit song and they’re like five or six songs, but the cover of thunder road is one of the most exhilarating examples of a re-interpretation of a song while still being true to its spirit that I have ever heard. [00:47:41] And, and the one take Johnny part of this is that, uh, a friend of mine was in the studio and will Oldham was doing his vocal tracks. And I was blown away to learn that a bunch of his tracks on that album are just one take. And, and that generally that’s kinda how he rolls. [00:48:00] And I find that really wonderful, um, and sort of mesmerizing and makes his albums a little more mesmerizing to me because he has just such beautiful phrasing and he can be really raw and rough in his beauty. [00:48:17] Uh, But to, to realize that that’s not contrived in the way that it maybe would have been, if he had kind of decided on that raw and rough. Right. So anyway, if anybody doesn’t listen to, we’ll old them out there. Um, look for him as will Oldham. He made records as palace, as palace brothers, but most of his work and the work that I highly recommend is as Bonnie prince Billy and it’s it’s hit or miss, like he puts a lot of music out when he hits. [00:48:47] It’s just wonderful. [00:48:48] Brett: amazing. So [00:48:50] I, I gotta, I gotta throw this out there. We talked last week about my musical tastes and how they Lee and I called it [00:49:00] darkness. Um, how I lean towards darkness and, uh, Christina didn’t love that. And I actually edited, edited out the part where I said Taylor swift was like, she had rich girl problems. [00:49:16] Jeff: Oh yeah. Yeah. [00:49:16] Brett: Because that wasn’t, that, wasn’t what I was trying to say. What I realized this week in, in like really considering that was, I need neurodiversity. [00:49:30] Jeff: Mm. [00:49:30] Brett: need my artists to, to suffer from depression or ADHD or bipolar I need or autism. I need them to come from a place that is not normal. Uh, normal music bores me, uh, or even, or even makes me feel bad. [00:49:56] But something like Bonnie prince, Billy, where he is [00:50:00] absolutely clearly coming from a place of depression and possibly bipolar, like I don’t need to diagnose him. I just, I can feel it in his lyrics and in his song. Um, like I discovered him because of Johnny Cassius cover of, I see [00:50:17] Jeff: Oh, I see a darkness. Yeah. [00:50:19] Brett: which is insane. [00:50:20] Like Cassius cover was insanely good. And then Bonnie prince Billy’s original was insanely good. And then Bonnie prince Billy Bree made the song. [00:50:30] with a happy beat. You ever hear [00:50:31] Jeff: Oh yeah. [00:50:32] Brett: Oh my God. It’s so good. [00:50:35] Jeff: one of the things he does, that’s wonderful as a fan is he reinterprets his own music pretty frequently. And to have made, I see a darkness, which is a beautiful song about what he is calling darkness. Right. Um, to have redefined that and made it a sort of joyful song is like the most beautiful thing. [00:50:55] And it’s just as true of a song. Right? Like that’s what I find really [00:51:00] beautiful about that [00:51:00] Brett: it is, it is absolutely a bipolar song. [00:51:04] Jeff: Um, [00:51:04] Brett: and I don’t mean you have to be diagnosed [00:51:07] Jeff: no, I get it. [00:51:08] Brett: it, but it, it, it. [00:51:10] taps into both this manic feeling of euphoria and the depressive state of hopelessness. And both of those exist in this song. It [00:51:20] Jeff: Yeah, there’s a great, I’m going to pull up the lyrics cause there’s just a great line that you’re making me think of. Um, and I think I know it well enough, but I don’t want to get it wrong because it’s not my lyrics. [00:51:33] Brett: I’m going to give you a sec because there are so many lines in that song that just give me like shivers tingles. [00:51:40] Jeff: I’m going to read it. It’s, it’s a beautiful song. So he starts with the song starts with, well, you’re my friend. And can you see many times we’ve been out drinking many times, we’ve shared our thoughts, but did you ever notice the kind of thoughts I got the way, you know, I have a love, a love for everyone. [00:51:55] I know. And you know, I have the drive to live. I won’t let go, but you can [00:52:00] see its opposition comes rising up sometimes that it’s dreadful imposition. Comes blacking in my mind and that I see a darkness and, and it’s just like, and I love this line. Well, I hope that someday buddy, we have peace in our lives together or apart, alone, or with our wives. [00:52:18] And we can stop our whoring and pull the smiles inside and light it up forever and never go to sleep. My best unburied, unbeaten brother, this isn’t all I see. [00:52:31] Brett: I think, oh [00:52:32] Jeff: I also see a darkness. Oh, just beautiful stuff. You know, there’s a funny story by the way, the lyrics to this credited to Johnny Cash online. Um, there’s a funny story about that. [00:52:43] Where I, as I recall, will Oldham them, got the call saying, Hey, you know, Johnny Cash wants to record this song. You know, we’d love to have you do something on the song. Do you play piano? And he didn’t play piano pretty said yes. Cause he felt like that was maybe going to be the only way he could participate. [00:52:58] And he wanted to make [00:52:59] Brett: [00:53:00] did backup vocals too. [00:53:01] Jeff: He did. [00:53:02] Brett: that’s what’s, that’s, what’s amazing about American songs by Johnny Cash is how many of the original artists did. [00:53:09] backup vocals on their own songs? [00:53:11] Jeff: Yeah, that was an incredible run of albums, really, truly. Ah, okay. So I have a good transition from this actually I’m, I’m only gonna pick my, um, pop culture, uh, topic, because I feel like one, I should represent pop culture without Christina here. Um, and to my other two topics, I think it will be fun with all three of us. [00:53:32] Um, so I just wanna, I just want to point to the loss of Taylor Hawkins, the drummer of the foo fighters, who was found dead in his hotel room, uh, last night, but I know this doesn’t come out for a bit. Um, and, uh, for people who. Aren’t familiar with Taylor Hawkins, uh, or the foo fighters. I’m sure you’re familiar with the foo fighters. [00:53:55] You know, he’s, he’s a drummer who joined that band, I think almost 20, 25 [00:54:00] years ago. Um, at a time when it wasn’t really clear that Dave Grohl, the drummer of Nirvana, the song main songwriter and singer and the foo fighters there wasn’t I think that the previous drummer was having a little bit of a hard time making Dave girl happy because it’s probably kind of hard to make Dave girl happy. [00:54:17] Cause he has such a specific narrow way of playing and he played drums on his early albums. And so when it came time for a different drummer to record, it was just a big mess and the guy got let go. But in that period of time, Taylor Hawkins, who had been playing for Alana’s Morissette, uh, was someone who Dave girl had met. [00:54:37] They, they had really hit it off. And, uh, and Dave girl just decided, I’m gonna try to get this guy in the band and. He invite them into the band. And it’s been, I think like 25 years there is, um, these two are like separated at birth type, uh, relationship. I am not a huge foo fighters fan. I absolutely love the first album. [00:54:56] I love the album, the color and the shape. I think it’s called as the [00:55:00] blue cover with spheres on it. Um, I don’t much like anything else. Uh it’s it’s a little too, uh, Poppy for me, like kind of just in a way that doesn’t, I don’t respond to. Um, but I really, really respect that band as an institution. I really love the way Dave Grohl has just made a career of kind of like honoring his roots and the people that inspire him. [00:55:26] Um, and I want to note the loss of Taylor Hawkins for a couple of reasons. One is that he almost died once before of a heroin overdose and was in a coma. And Dave Grohl wrote, I think, not just a song with most of an album about him and about waiting at his hospital bed for him to hopefully live. Um, and so you already have. [00:55:49] This kind of story of this friendship and this near loss and, and how, how painful that was for the one who wasn’t in a coma. [00:56:00] Um, and if you are in any way of foo fighters fan, or even just kind of like a passive fan, like Higham, there are just like endless YouTube videos of these two doing interviews together. [00:56:09] It seems like Dave Grohl never appears without Taylor Hawkins at his side. And, and they are always joking with each other and very light with each other. They’re always together like always all these situations where if it were any other celebrity, similar to Dave Grohl, you’d just be looking at Dave Grohl, but he, if he’s on 60 minutes, Taylor Hawkins is next to him. [00:56:29] He’s got a band of like six people, but Taylor Hawkins is always the one that’s next to him. And you got the sense that he kept him close, especially after that overdose. Um, And so the fact that he’s found dead in a hotel room is just like it’s devastating. And for me, it really, it really showed me that I was more of a fan of their friendship than I was up the music. [00:56:52] Um, and, and I think that’s kind of interesting. And then it made me realize also that like in a similar way, [00:57:00] I was more of a fan of their very earnest and nods towards pop music history than I was of their own brand of earnest pop music. And, and I, I, I liked to kind of smiled, realizing what an interesting little flip that is, um, because I’m really not attracted to the music much at all. [00:57:19] Uh, so anyway, rest in peace, Taylor Hawkins, he had a wife and children and, and, um, Dave Grohl is just someone that like, if you’re our age, you’ve grown up with them, right. Like, so I can, I can, you know, allow, it’s easy for me to allow myself to feel, uh, uh, some grief on his behalf. [00:57:38] Brett: Yeah, [00:57:38] Jeff: That’s it. [00:57:39] Brett: th the foo fighters do nothing for me as a band, but I have a great admiration for Dave Grohl. I will admit that I am not aware of Taylor Hawkins, and I’ve never noticed Taylor Hawkins. And now I’m going to have to go back and, and see. [00:58:00] And see this dynamic you’re talking about. [00:58:02] Jeff: I put a link in the show notes of an interview with the two of them. I will say that he is not the kind of person that I would naturally be drawn towards. Like he is, what’s funny about him and Dave Grohl. He’s like Dave girls’ little brother, um, who didn’t have quite the same, like awesome kind of cultural experience. [00:58:19] Right. And he, I mean, he’s a dude that like most of the. You can see them like shirtless with like swim trunks. And flip-flops like, he’s a total like Southern California beach dude in every way. And he embraces it. Right. And so, and he doesn’t seem, he didn’t seem like, you know, very intellectual, like, you know, he was very dedicated to a very narrow band of sort of pop music. [00:58:43] He, he, he loved it. The Brittany Spears quote, which I think may be, is brought up in the interview. I linked to, there was a point where Britney Spears said something like, um, writing, writing a Radiohead album. Isn’t hard writing a song that everybody loves. That’s hard. [00:59:00] And, and, and Taylor and Taylor Hawkins, regardless that quote is like, that’s exactly right, man. [00:59:07] You know, [00:59:07] Brett: I really, I do love that. [00:59:10] Jeff: It’s a, it is a great quote anyway, like it’s such a weird, I guess I’m just realizing that’s another level of why do I, why was I drawn towards this guy and this friendship? Because he’s also somewhere I’m like, man, no, thanks. Like, I don’t need to hang out with this guy, but rest in peace, it’s really sad. [00:59:27] And it’s sad. How much of that, um, era of our sort of shared music culture has been, uh, you know, sort of the threads have been undone by, by, you know, drug, overdose and suicides. [00:59:43] Brett: Yeah. [00:59:44] Jeff: So I see you mark Lanigan, mark Lanigan, and rest in peace. Anyway. [00:59:49] Brett: in our pre-show we thought this might be a short episode without Christina we’re we’re at an hour right now. And you said you had a hard out, do you, [01:00:00] do you have time for a quick wrap attitude or are we [01:00:03] Jeff: I want to do a quick, I want to do a quick grab to, to, cause I, I just love this. I love going out on this note. [01:00:09] Brett: All right. For those who miss last week, gratitude with a hard G. Is our chance to highlight developers and usually in the apps that we find, especially amazing this week. So Jeff, what is your gratitude list for this week? [01:00:29] Jeff: So it’s, it’s one developer and, um, her name is Molly white. Um, I saw her, I found her because of a link on hacker news this last week, which is, I don’t know what I do with that. Hacker news is such a wonderful, curated list of stuff every day. Um, she had actually created a really great sort of conversation in a web page where she put the text of a New York times article. [01:00:57] That was basically in her words, a [01:01:00] sort of thinly veiled advertisement for certain, certain cryptocurrency companies. And she made it so that. People who who know that field well, could comment on it and annotate it. And it ends up just being this like intensely, heavily annotated version of this New York times article by, I think around like 12 different people. [01:01:22] Anyway, I’ll put a link to that, but that’s not why I’m, I’m bringing her up. Um, have you heard the term web three? [01:01:28] Brett: Yes [01:01:29] Jeff: Okay. So I don’t know how, but I had [01:01:32] Brett: in, in no way, other than derisively, but Yes. [01:01:35] Jeff: Yes. So this, I heard it this week because my son and his friend were playing a game. It’s one of my favorites, which is let’s try to come up with a domain that isn’t purchased. [01:01:44] Right. Like, and one domain they came up with, uh, was just like a landing page for like web three. And they’re like, what is that? And I was like, you know, honestly, I don’t actually know, but it sounds like totally made up bullshit. Uh, and of course, web [01:02:00] three is, is, I mean, would you say it this way is what envelops things like cryptocurrency and NFTs and all of that stuff is that fair? [01:02:08] Brett: is absolutely what it has come to mean. Yes. [01:02:11] Jeff: Yes. What did this come to mean? So what Molly white did, um, that I really enjoyed was created a website that is called a web three is going great. And, and she built it using a tool she’d created, um, that was like a static timeline generator. And I’ll put a link to that as well. And it’s, it’s so good because it’s like, it’s like an editorial in its own. [01:02:40] Right. But it’s a web page. That’s I love the design and it uses her static timeline to basically place articles that. Uh, you know, take pot shots at this whole idea of web three and, and essentially show it to be sort of the incredible, like swamp of scams [01:03:00] that it is. And I thought it was just an amazing way to editorialize on something without actually writing anything. [01:03:07] And I loved that. She used what I think is a pretty cool tool that she built herself. Um, similarly she wrote a Twitter bot that actually goes after all of the Twitter bots that go after people who are tweeting about having problems with their crypto wallet and things like that. And so anyway, like her, her work is just super interesting. [01:03:28] Um, I’ll put a link to her main site and some of these tools just like I, what I love about. Hacker news is more often than not the thing that’s posted ends up being a gateway for me into someone’s kind of entire ecosystem. And she was, is one of those people where you go to our website and you’re like, wow, you are doing so much. [01:03:48] And it all creates this little world of analysis and it’s really inspiring. So Molly white, [01:03:55] Brett: She is a, a parent, um, I’m checking her homepage. She is a [01:04:00] long-time editor of English Wikipedia under the username guerrilla warfare. Um, former member of the arbitration committee cares deeply about providing free and open access to high quality information. Tim like, uh, seems like, uh, a good egg. [01:04:20] Jeff: oh man. And there’s an awesome, uh, you can, on her website, she has a page. She created that sort of just tracks her changes and edits in Wikipedia. And that itself is a great, so you could really spend a lot of time with Molly whitener. [01:04:33] Brett: Nice. All right. Um, if you have a moment, I’ll, I’ll say my, my pick for this week is MailMate, [01:04:41] Jeff: Yeah. [01:04:42] Brett: which is okay. There are so many email clients, email clients available for Macco S like you can find they’re all the same to me. I’ll be honest. They all, they look pretty and they do the exact same thing, [01:05:00] but mailman. [01:05:01] Gets into tagging and nested conditions and smart mailboxes and all kinds of things that these other fancy pretty email clients can’t touch. And if you’re looking for actual power and actual control over your email, MailMate MailMate is where it’s at. I’m not going to go into details. It would be a long show, but go ahead. [01:05:25] Yeah. [01:05:26] Jeff: I mean, what I love about MailMate is that, I mean, it’s, it’s one of those tools. That’s when you first look at it and realize just how sort of customizable and extendable it is, it can be overwhelming. It does aesthetically look like the tool of someone who knows more about, um, programming than I do. And yet when I first went into it and I recently started using it again, it also is one of those things where it’s like, I just remember the first time I clicked on the name of somebody. [01:05:58] Um, and [01:06:00] all of a sudden, I just double clicked on their name for some reason, not for what came. And all of a sudden I was just looking at all the emails from them. If I clicked on the subject, I was looking at just the emails with that subject line. Um, and I find that it has all of these little navigation tricks that just reveal themselves to you almost the way a video game teaches you how to use it, [01:06:19] Brett: right? [01:06:20] Yeah. They’re totally intuitive. Like you click something and what you think should happen just happens. It’s very Mac like. [01:06:29] Jeff: For sure. I mean, especially, I, I often use that example just like I clicked their name and I was looking at everything from them and their, their search is just really nice and fluid. And man, it’s an awesome way to use, to do email. [01:06:42] Brett: Yeah, and, and it’s, it’s free to try and you can, I pay a monthly subscription, which is totally optional because you can just buy it outright and, and you, and you own it. But if you are a supporter of what they’re doing, you can [01:07:00] choose to pay a subscription fee for it. I chose to pay a subscription fee for it because I am that invested in an MailMate as an email. [01:07:11] application. [01:07:11] I love it. [01:07:12] Jeff: Can we name names here? I’m not sure who the developer is. Uh, [01:07:17] Brett: run. I don’t know his actual name. The developer goes by free run, [01:07:22] Jeff: Oh, yeah. Yeah. F R E R O N. [01:07:24] Brett: but I actually do not know the developer’s real name. [01:07:30] Jeff: I just always wondered. Is this like a one person shop or what? [01:07:34] Brett: believe it is. I believe it is one person. [01:07:38] Jeff: Awesome. [01:07:39] Brett: But I can’t prove that I can’t prove it. [01:07:41] Jeff: You knew about one person shops. [01:07:43] Brett: I do. I’m very, very familiar with the concept. Thanks for, uh, thanks for showing up and, and helping me fill in for Christina’s absence this week. [01:07:54] Jeff: My pleasure. I look forward to joining you both next week. I’ve already got some topics. [01:07:59] Brett: Hey [01:08:00] Jeff. [01:08:01] Jeff: Hmm. [01:08:01] Brett: Get some sleep. [01:08:02] Jeff: You could some sleep, you know what? You get some sleep by.

A nerdy journey through music proclivities, software infatuations, and learning Torah portions. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED. Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Staying Alive (1983) Rolling Stone article on the Last Brother Gibb Fish shell Fig.io Doing halp for Fish Dash TailScale TailScale free plan Jeff’s First Tweet in 300+ days Amazing and poignant article about a Torah trainer app and its legacy Anish Athalye dotbot Seashells Periscope Lumen Christopher Groskopf CSVKit Bad Data Guide Kaleidoscope BetterTouchTool Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff, Christina as @film_girl, Jeff as @jsguntzel, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 278 [00:00:00] Jeff: Welcome to the Overtired podcast. I’m the new guy, Jeff Sevrens Guntzel. And I’m here with Christina Warren and Brett Terpstra. Hi everybody. [00:00:13] Brett: Hey, Jeff. [00:00:14] Christina: Hey Jeff. . That was fun. [00:00:17] Uh, do, do do the Sunday, Sunday, Sunday thing, cuz that was good. Sunday, Sunday, [00:00:21] Jeff: Sunday. [00:00:22] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:00:24] Brett: except we’re recording on a Saturday. We’re publishing on a Friday, but we’ll take It [00:00:29] Christina: It doesn’t matter. Look who doesn’t love monster truck. As on Thursday, Thursday, Thursday. [00:00:33] Brett: We’ll sell you the whole seat, but you’ll only need the edge. [00:00:38] Jeff: Man, you know what? I recently went down, I know, you know, TikTok should be a sponsor. Uh, I, I went down a TikTok monster truck, rabbit hole, and I never went to one of those and I gathered they were fun and cooled. I had no idea how fucking cool those things were. that’s all, that’s the, that’s the end of the topic.[00:01:00] [00:01:01] Brett: So, uh, let’s have a mental health corner. Jeff, how’s your mental health. [00:01:05] Jeff: you know, it’s, uh, it’s pretty good. Uh, I’ve got like a nice, I kind of went through a medication balancing crisis [00:01:12] Brett: Yeah, I know how [00:01:13] Jeff: and, uh, And I’ve come out of that really. Um, just feeling very even, which is, um, something I don’t feel as much as I would like. And I’m sleeping again after I think two or maybe three weeks of getting around two to three hours of not deep sleep a night. [00:01:31] And, um, and so I’m, I’m like, I’m like much happier person than I’ve been in quite a while. How about [00:01:37] Christina: y’all? That’s fantastic. Um, I’m doing okay. I need to, and, and the thing is, is that for various reasons that I’ll be able to talk about more in the future? I, I, I, I can’t kind of do it right now, but I need to, um, get with my shrink and, and potentially actually just go to a sleep doctor and like one of those sleep study things, I had one like 15 years ago, but I need another one [00:02:00] because I feel like I need to get my sleep in check. [00:02:03] So. [00:02:05] Jeff: Yeah. So what is the, how would you describe the sleep? Is it just like you’re just wide awake [00:02:08] Christina: or, yeah, I mean, it’s one of those things and it’s like, I have a hard time getting to sleep and then sometimes once I do, I might sleep really long and sometimes I, you know, won’t, you know, I, I, I started doing this whole nap thing again, which I know probably isn’t good, but I have to better than I, but yeah, but it’s better than like, not doing anything. [00:02:26] So I think it probably needs consistency in other stuff, but I I’ve always had a hard time, like getting to sleep like insomnia has been a lifelong struggle. [00:02:36] Jeff: And so you’d done a sleep [00:02:37] Christina: study. Yeah. But it was, I was in college, so okay. You know, so, and I, so you were drunk. Yeah, exactly. Got it. Um, and so, yeah, so I, I need to do one of those again, cuz my, my shrink gave me some sort of sleeping pill that it’s one of those things where it’s not habit forming, so it’s not like ambient or one of those things where like you have to, you know, like they, you know, give you side eyes at the [00:03:00] pharmacist or whatever. [00:03:01] And they even done things where like, they, you know, can wake people up after, you know, being asleep for a couple of hours who have taken it and then they can do like a 10 point, you know, driving test type of thing. Um, so, so it’s supposed to be good for that, but it’s just having no impact on me at all. [00:03:16] So we need to try some other stuff. But, um, and uh, I don’t know if I need to do a sleep study, but I have a feeling that probably would help, you know, for them to have access to stuff just so I could get like a better. Insight, but anyway, I, I, I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m glad that you’ve got your stuff mellowed out. [00:03:32] I’m glad that you’re getting some sleep. Well, I, [00:03:34] Jeff: maybe, I, I mean, I’ve gotten in touch with a sleep psychologist and I’ve started with new therapist and I’m not sure I want to also start with a sleep psychologist at the same time. [00:03:42] Christina: Oh no, that totally, totally. Yeah. A lot of change, lot [00:03:45] Jeff: of change, but I, I want someone to help me, but maybe I just need a sleep study. [00:03:49] Maybe I’m just snoring myself awake. Cuz that’s, that’s come on in my life. Especially as I take meds that make me gain weight. Right, right. [00:03:58] Brett: I’ve been waking up like [00:04:00] way too early since I started the VI events. Like I’ve been falling asleep fine at night, but then I wake up around three or four. And, uh, this week I only got one night of sleep where I actually slept until my alarm went off at five 30. Um, so I’m a, I’m a little hired, but I’ve just been like short an hour or two a night. [00:04:21] You know how that adds up over time. But, uh, it’s not, I’m not awful. I’m still I’m I’m wearing into the, the VI event though. It’s it’s actually, it’s been a little jittery than I remember it ever being before. Maybe she, I cut my dose down. I think [00:04:39] Jeff: you gotta cut the dose. I, I was, I ruined a tooth. I think I told you this from like grinding my, my teeth and right. Part of like my very back bottom tooth on the right side, just like cracked off. like, okay, I’m gonna change my dosage. [00:04:54] Brett: I correct. I correct the front. Did we already talk about my dentist visit? [00:05:00] I like broke. I broke one of my front teeth and I went to the dentist and they gave me Novacane, which was weird because the dentist I’ve been seeing for the last decade does not give me Novacane and she just drills until I, until she sees like a here go down my face and then she does the filling and they gave me Novacane and they drilled as deep as they needed to. [00:05:22] And they gave me a real filling that won’t fall out. And I’m switching Dennis [00:05:26] Christina: Nice. Hell. Yeah. Because [00:05:28] Jeff: you, you see that you had been in an abusive relationship. [00:05:31] Christina: Yeah. I was gonna say, I, I ghosted my dentist and I didn’t mean to, because I’d finally gotten back in the habit again and she was great. And then I had a ton of travel and I didn’t go for a while. And then by the time I needed to go again, it was the freaking pandemic and they weren’t doing anything. [00:05:46] And now, you know, and then like two years goes by. And so I had finally gotten myself in a good place with my teeth and I’m way behind. And so I’m gonna have to start all over again, but I, I, hopefully I can, hopefully I can go to the same person cuz she was [00:06:00] really, really nice. Plus they had a, they had Netflix like um, Ooh, in, in the, in the chairs, like they had TVs kind of like were just listening air supply. [00:06:09] No. Well that was what was so cool. Right? Like you go in and like they had kind of like TVs kind of like mounted, like with Rokus. And so then they would just put in like kind of like a cheap like head phone thing that they would like give you that you could, you know, connect to the Roku mode and like I’d watch Netflix while I was getting my teeth cleaned. [00:06:24] Brett: That’s brilliant. That’s a great distraction. [00:06:28] Christina: it [00:06:28] Jeff: honestly is my dentist in the waiting room of my dentists office. They had this video playing on loop of a chimpanzee, getting its teeth brushed. [00:06:39] that’s not why I chose them [00:06:41] Brett: my dentist was playing guns and roses while I was in the chair. [00:06:46] Christina: like, like, like a whole album or, [00:06:47] Brett: Uh, no, they were, they had on like some local radio station that has absolutely no consistency. Like they are like the best of, of everything of all times. Like, they’ll go [00:07:00] from like the chandel’s to guns and roses to creed. Like it’s, it’s what the fuck ever at any point. [00:07:06] And I, so I’m sitting there and welcome to the jungle comes on and I’m like, this is the first time I’ve ever heard. This is the first time I’ve ever heard guns and roses in a. dentist office. [00:07:16] Jeff: Yeah. [00:07:17] Brett: It’s not your typical fair. [00:07:19] Jeff: Hey, oh, before we get out of mental health slash dental health, uh, corner. Yes. Um, because this is called Overtired. I, I had the most like tired experience of my life, which was the last day before I started sleeping. Well, again, when I was, again, like two or three weeks into these, just very Rocky sleep nights, I was, I was up in the morning and I hadn’t had coffee and I went to pee and I grabbed a K N 95 mask and put it on and then went into pee and was like, what the fuck did I just do? [00:07:55] That’s literally the most ti, like, I often joke that you need coffee to make [00:08:00] coffee. Right? Like sometimes I just do stupid things when I’m trying to make coffee, cuz I need coffee so bad. Uh, but that one was, was a brand new kind of, maybe I’m just completely losing my mind. [00:08:11] Brett: Yeah, [00:08:12] Jeff: But nobody got sick in that [00:08:13] Christina: bathroom. [00:08:14] Yeah. I was gonna say, I was gonna say like, how fucked is it though? That like, even our subconscious, like, even like you’re tired of state is like, need to put the mask on. Oh, I know, man. It’s crazy. [00:08:23] Brett: I, I went to target without a mask yesterday. Uh, like [00:08:28] our com our community spread is down. I’m fully vaccinated. And I thought like our target, it, it, wasn’t a busy time of day. Like social distancing is easy. And I thought, you know, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna fucking just go somewhere without a mask for once. [00:08:42] And I really enjoyed it. It very nice. I felt like I made a responsible decision. There were plenty of people still in masks, and that made me feel like they were probably look, they probably thought I was a [00:08:51] Christina: They probably were, [00:08:52] Brett: but, [00:08:53] Christina: but, but, well, you know, and that fears you, but at the same time, like Washington state was the last state to drop the mask mandate [00:09:00] and uh, like it wasn’t until last Friday that they finally dropped it. Um, and, um, So, and, and we’d been one of the better states in terms of both the vaccination thing and in terms of, of cases and stuff for quite a while. [00:09:16] So at a certain point, it I’m gonna be honest. It just, it feels performative. And especially since with you, the masks only help so much anyway. So like, yeah, like I I’ve kind of had that same feeling like, oh, people are gonna think I’m a Republican and I’m like, you know what? Like we’re allowed not to wear them now, fuck off. [00:09:37] Brett: And I don’t know [00:09:38] Christina: You know, if you, if you that’s what I’m saying and like, and if you wanna wear it, like, awesome. That is fantastic. I’m, I’m happy for you to do that. I don’t, I I’m actually very happy to not have like mask me anymore. I had to go to a fucking dermatologist and get on, um, antibiotics for my rosacea that I’m still taking because, because of, of, of the mask me. [00:09:59] So, you know, [00:10:00] like, yeah, [00:10:01] Brett: Nobody likes wearing a mask. We did it because it, it was the kind thing to do for our fellow travelers. But yeah. [00:10:09] I’m not, if I don’t have to, I’m not gonna, I don’t, I don’t need to it’s you’re Right. [00:10:16] Performative. I don’t need to perform that. [00:10:20] Christina: Yeah. [00:10:20] Jeff: And, and yet I went into the grocery store the other day with that one, just cause I had forgotten it and, and nobody was not wearing it. And I’m like, oh God damn it. And then now I’ve got friends. There are people in my circle getting COVID again. , it’s just like, what the fuck? And, but I’ve doubled down. [00:10:35] Like I not only will sometimes not wear a mask, but I bought a Ford F150 for a thousand bucks and I’ve taken to wearing camo pants. [00:10:42] Brett: Are you, are you being serious? Is this serious? [00:10:44] Jeff: yes, I’m serious. And the F-150 has an NRA described, [00:10:48] Brett: Wow, [00:10:49] Jeff: I’m gonna get off, which I’m gonna get off. But, um, [00:10:51] Brett: no, that feels performative. [00:10:53] Jeff: I am like deep cover, except that I always wear. [00:10:55] If I’m wearing camel pants, I always wear a shirt. There are all these great Threadless shirts with [00:11:00] like flowers on them that I like. So I always wear the flower shirt just to keep things real, you know, but if I walk out, I get out of a fucking F-150 with an NRA sticker, wearing camel pants and no mask. [00:11:13] And it’s just like, I might as well be in Winona, Brett [00:11:16] Brett: is, what is that supposed to mean? [00:11:18] Jeff: dude. Come on. [00:11:20] Brett: It’s a very blue city. No, it’s not very blue. We [00:11:24] have, [00:11:24] Jeff: anywhere out, anywhere, outstate, anywhere. Outstate, you got more camel pants. You got more, uh, you got more, uh, F one 50 S uh [00:11:32] Brett: we did have a dude with Confederate flag Confederate flag, um, mud flaps driving around last summer. Tim’s seen him since though. [00:11:40] Christina: man. [00:11:41] Back to the Bee Gees [00:11:41] Brett: Um, okay. So can we revisit thes. [00:11:45] Jeff: yes, please. Oh, that’s an awesome [00:11:47] Brett: I, I tried, I, I tried, as I mentioned at the end of the last show, like I watched Saturday, the night fever, I like looked up best of the BJ’s playlist. [00:11:56] I went through all the covers. I could find of BJ songs [00:12:00] and I, I still, it makes me feel yucky to hear that music I do. I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna use, I’m not gonna say I hate it. And I’m not gonna say, there’s anything wrong with the music. And it’s fine. It’s fine with me. If other people like it, I like it doesn’t make me think any less of them. [00:12:20] But when I hear the BGS, I feel gross inside. Of course, watching Saturday, Saturday night fever also made me feel gross [00:12:28] Christina: I was gonna say, I was gonna say you poured it on. Yeah, I was gonna say you did. I mean, I don’t know that that film is such a vibe though. It’s such like a, a film from that era, like it made am such a huge star. Like it’s, it’s really interesting. I will say that the follow. Oh, it totally is, but it’s also, I don’t know. [00:12:48] It, it, it, I can’t hate that film. Um, uh, just, just for like where it fits in kind of like the, the seventies cannon, um, I will say the, the follow [00:13:00] staying alive, the sequel, which was panned and data horribly, the box office is like, if you, you ever just like really wanna watch, like, just like a, a terrible follow up to a film, [00:13:11] Jeff: there was [00:13:12] Brett: a [00:13:12] film. I already didn’t [00:13:13] Christina: Baloo yeah, yeah. [00:13:15] It, it was called, it was called staying alive. And it was basically like the depressing, like version of like, okay. His career is kind of like over and like, like what what’s he gonna do now? Like, it’s, it’s, um, really, really, uh, it’s worth watching for wanna see like somebody taking. Doing the complete wrong approach for sequel on every possible level. [00:13:36] Like the reason that the film worked was because of the dancing and the music and whatnot, it clearly could only work in 1977. And, and then the, the, um, the, the film in, in 1983, um, was, was like just, [00:13:50] Jeff: yeah. Did they, did they at least use, did they at least use the die hard naming convention? Like staying alive some [00:13:57] Christina: more? [00:13:58] No, no. And it was [00:14:00] just called staying alive. Wow. [00:14:03] Brett: Um, so here, so I examined myself. This led to a long period of self-examination like, what’s wrong with me that I can’t like this, you know, happy melancholy, even like, feel good music. And I realized that I have this strong, uh, a true action to dark angsty music, and it can be sad, dark. It can be angry, dark. [00:14:30] Like I just, I need a certain amount of darkness. It’s why I like Cale more than I like Taylor swift. I like a certain amount of pain in my music. And if it isn’t there, [00:14:41] Christina: I mean, she has so much pain. She has so much pain, but, but go on. [00:14:45] Brett: Like I’m not looking up the backstory of like every, every artist I listen to, like, I just need the music to feel authentically bad, like authentically sad or angry. [00:14:57] Um, and that’s just, that’s just [00:15:00] what I like. And I don’t know where it comes from. I don’t know why that is, but that’s what I figured out about myself silent. [00:15:07] Christina: that makes sense. No, that makes sense. And I feel like it definitely the BGS, although there is some like 10 sadness, I think in some of their songs, cuz they’re great. Pop songs, writers you’re completely right. Like the whole flow of that music. And even like the construction of those songs they’re pops. [00:15:21] Right. And, and they, they’re not going like they, they did some ballet, but not really the, the tear jerker weepy shit. So yeah, I can, I can see that. I, I can, that makes sense to me. I will, I will say, I feel like. And when the rerelease happens, we’ll definitely talk about it more, but I feel like you’ll enjoy the speak now. [00:15:40] Taylor swift album a lot, because like, dear John is the greatest. Fuck you song ever written. [00:15:46] Brett: Yeah. Well, and, and as you’ve noticed, the songs that I, say, I like by Taylor swift are her angsty songs like that. It, it, it. [00:15:54] holds true, even in my listening to Taylor swift, uh, the stuff that is just [00:16:00] kind of poppy, or even just like kind of melancholy, it’s the stuff that’s a little. Angry. I think that, that I, I, I get into [00:16:08] Christina: Yeah, [00:16:09] Brett: something’s wrong with me. [00:16:10] That’s okay though. [00:16:11] Jeff: I was listening to ABA and the F150 the other [00:16:13] Christina: day [00:16:13] Brett: See, I like Abba. That’s here’s the thing about sugar? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can explain this. It’s all about, it’s all about context. If I have the context for something, I can make it enjoyable, which is why I thought if I watched Saturday, Saturday night fever, that I would maybe have context for the BGS. [00:16:34] And like, it would make sense to me, but Abbo, it comes from a part of my life that was full of drugs and sex. And like, when I hear Abba, I just have nothing but warm feelings and it doesn’t matter what the, the tone of the music is because I have this like emotional context around it. Same with seventies rock, like, uh, I didn’t, I didn’t like any of it until I [00:17:00] had. [00:17:01] Context for it. Um, context is That’s the key. If it’s not sad and angry, I just need context. [00:17:08] Christina: That’s fair. I’m gonna link. And again, like your opinion is never gonna change on the BGS, but it would be interesting just, uh, for listeners who might want more backstory a if you can ever find the behind the music about them on any sites or anything. That was great. But B I just found, um, cuz I, one of the, one of the brothers who wasn’t in the BGS, but he was the, the youngest brother actually died of an overdose, but they, they like to, to, to party. [00:17:32] And there’s this article from rolling stone called, uh, like the, the, the last, um, Barry Gibb, the last brother. And there’s this, um, uh, highlighted thing that I found the Gibbs have always been fond of substances. Barry smoked grass, Robin liked pills and were drank. [00:17:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:17:49] Christina: That’s just like Maurice, Maurice. It’s like for the most part, they stayed away from the harder stuff I did a week of cocaine in 1980. [00:17:56] Something says, give, but the trouble with cocaine, he laughs is cocaine. [00:18:00] You’ve gotta do it every half hour. It’s too much work amphetamine last four to six hours. And in those days he says with a grin, there was some great amphetamines, [00:18:09] Brett: What was that? [00:18:09] Jeff: There’s cocaine in the room, turn around. This is not gonna be a fun party. [00:18:13] Yeah. [00:18:14] Brett: Okay. That was thanks for revisit that with me. That was nice. Uh, [00:18:19] Christina: You got it. [00:18:19] Sponsor: Zocdoc [00:18:19] Christina: So speaking of, of, again, exactly, like speaking of maybe getting your sleep, um, sorted out, right. We, we won’t talk about maybe, although, I guess you could find an addiction specialist too, but speaking of, of, of, you know, getting your head in, check in whatever way it might be, uh, let’s talk about doc doc. [00:18:36] So has this ever happened to you? You need to see a doctor you’re searching around. You’re trying to find one that looks good. You wait on hold to book the appointment, you rearrange your schedule. And then when you finally go in, you find out that the doctor doesn’t even take your insurance, but there is a solution. [00:18:53] So you just download the free app, and instantly book an appointment. So with doc, doc, what’s really great about it is that you can search for local [00:19:00] doctors who take your insurance. This is my favorite thing about the, the app, which I’ve been using for over a decade. [00:19:04] Um, you can also read, verify patient reviews and you can book an appointment, uh, either in person or over voice chat. So you’ve never got a wait on hold with a receptionist again. I love that too, because honestly, if I have to call somebody to like book an appointment, it’s more than likely not going to happen to me. [00:19:21] This is one of the reasons why I, I feel like I haven’t like booked anything with my dentist because she’s not on doc doc. Anyway, whether you’re primary care physician, dentist, as we mentioned, dermatologist, psychiatrist, eye doctor, other specialists, whatever you’re looking for Z doc has you covered. So go to doc, doc.com/ Overtired and download the Z doc app to sign up for free every month. [00:19:44] Millions of people use doc doc. I’m one of them, uh, legitimately I’ve been using the service for over 10 years is my go-to. Whenever I need to see a doctor, Z doc makes healthcare easy and now is the time to prioritize your health. Go to doc doc.com/ [00:20:00] Overtired and download the Zoc app to sign up for free and book a top rated doctor many are available as soon as today. That’s Zoc do c.com/ Overtired. [00:20:12] Brett: Since we have three sponsors today, do you wanna do back to back sponsors? [00:20:16] Christina: Let’s do it. [00:20:17] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:20:17] Brett: Let’s do it. Who doesn’t love to live well to be perfectly at ease in comfort and style hunter Douglass can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control systems. So advanced. They can be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. [00:20:36] Perhaps it’s the way the shades diffuse harsh sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room, or being able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside. Maybe it’s the superior insulation. The shades provide keeping you warmer and winter cooler in summer and lowering utility bills. [00:20:55] Or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it. [00:20:59] just [00:21:00] looks and feels right? When you tap into hunter Douglas’s power view technology, your shades can be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light privacy and insulation morning, noon, and night. [00:21:13] So live beautifully with hunter, Doug. Enjoy greater convenience, enhance style and increase comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunter douglas.com/ Overtired today for your free style. Get smarter design guide with fresh takes creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. [00:21:31] That’s hunter douglas.com/ Overtired for your a free design guide. [00:21:38] Let’s Get Nerdy [00:21:38] Brett: I think I think this show’s about to get nerdy. Am am I right? [00:21:43] Christina: Dirty. Yes. 100% dirty. [00:21:46] Brett: Can I kick it off by telling you what I wrote this morning? [00:21:49] Christina: Yes, please do [00:21:50] Brett: So, so I have this app that a little command line tool called doing that you, that keeps a, a log of everything you’re doing, and it has all these [00:22:00] different ways of displaying your log, your, your data. Um, and you can like filter it by dates and time of day and tags. [00:22:08] And it get there’s like a there’s every single display command has like at least eight different flags you can use to further filter data. So, uh, what I ended up doing this morning is I added a save flag. So any display command, when you get it to display exactly what you want, you can add minus my is saved to the command and it will save all of those options into a view. [00:22:36] And create a custom command out of it. So the next time you, you, you, you give it. [00:22:41] a name and you type save, and then a, a name, and then next time you can just type doing in that name and it’ll show you that preconfigured view. [00:22:51] Jeff: yes. And. [00:22:52] Brett: Yeah. I’m super, like, I, I dropped about it last night and then I woke up And. [00:22:56] I, it in like an hour and it’s the best thing [00:23:00] I’ve added all year. [00:23:01] Christina: That’s [00:23:01] Jeff: awesome. I, I just started using doing again last week. [00:23:05] Brett: Neat. [00:23:05] Jeff: I love it. I love it. I love it because I, I love to use it when I’m having a productive week, because I can look back and be like, look at everything I did. If I’m, if I’m in shit week, I’m not touching it. [00:23:18] Brett: I added, uh, I used the tide prompt for Phish, which is, uh, uh, what do you call it? Like, it, it, it refreshes in the background, so there’s no delay. When you like when, when a prompt comes up and I have a, I added a tied item, uh, for doing so if there’s a current doing task, it shows it in my prompt between the left and right prompts, like right. [00:23:43] in the middle. [00:23:44] So I always know there’s a task running that I can remember to finish. Yeah. It’s cool. [00:23:49] Christina: Christina, are you a, are you a Phish person? Um, so, okay. So I, I tried it finally after like Brett talked a lot about it and I really do like it, my issue is [00:24:00] I’m afraid that because it would be something that I realistically won’t be able to have installed on remote machines that I spend a lot of time on. [00:24:09] I about like mentally having to switch back and forth between like Z shell and fish. Yeah. Um, and I might be able to like, get to that point. I just don’t know if I can. Right. Like I, so it becomes one of those things where like, cuz I’ve only recently gotten finally used to Z shell over bash. And even though they’re, they’re very, very similar obviously. [00:24:29] And so it becomes one those things I’m like, do I wanna like add in yet another like terminal that I need to know? Mm-hmm , that’s different. And then like muscle memory, if I mess aging into something and it doesn’t have fish installed, like then like I’m gonna have to like, oh right. I do it this way here. [00:24:47] Brett: That’s just, that’s never been a problem for me. Like as long as I know what shell I’m, I’m in, you know, echo shell, uh, my brain just reconfigures for now. I’m in bash now. I’m in Z shell. Now [00:25:00] I’m in Phish. Now I’m in [00:25:01] Christina: And maybe it’ll work that way. I mean, maybe it’ll work that way. No, one’s in seashell. Uh, um, I mean, and maybe like, that will be the case. I’m not sure I’ve been playing with it. I like it, but I haven’t, I haven’t gone far down the rabbit hole. I will say I discovered this thing this morning. Fig have either of you used [00:25:18] Jeff: fig yeah. [00:25:18] Talk about what [00:25:19] Brett: tried it out after you tweeted it. [00:25:22] Christina: Okay. So basic is, um, like. Uh, a, a terminal hider, uh, like, like, um, helper, um, it works with any shell that you want and it runs in the background on your Mac. So it, it is one of those things where like, you have to have like an app running in your, you know, can be hidden, you know, in your menu bar or whatever, but it’s, it’s, uh, kind of like a Damon, I guess, although I guess, like they’re not technically Damons anymore, um, running in the back round, um, that supports a bunch of CLI tools and brings in a lot of really easy completion stuff. [00:25:54] So rather than necessarily having to configure like a ton of things for. Whatever shell you’re [00:26:00] using and add a bunch of plugins that slow stuff down. Uh, and this is kind of what I wanna play around with and see if there would be something like, if this would be better than having a bunch of plugins or, or not. [00:26:10] Um, I think in theory, the idea is that it would be, is that it’ll do things like offer like, um, various, you know, like, like completions for, for, um, you know, doing stuff like for files and folders or for doing stuff with NPM or it’s got stuff. Or get, and, and it’s got stuff built in for Kubernetes and Docker and, uh, SSH stuff. [00:26:30] Like it’s got a ton of different, um, stuff already there brew AWS. Like they’ve got a ton of different like definitions and auto complete things there. Uh, the, uh, the GitHub repo has like 13,000 stars, so there’s a ton of stuff there. Um, and, uh, it’s, uh, it’s crowdsource because people are, are building and, and adding their owns with it, which is kind of cool. [00:26:53] Um, and it’s completely local, which is nice. Uh, you can even kind of like, you know, build your own thing if you want to use [00:27:00] this type script, which I think is an interesting way of, I guess, kind of building those definitions. I haven’t spent a ton of time it, but I, the way I kind of envision it is that it’s like, okay, you have a lot of these nice things that you would typically have to. [00:27:14] At this point, basically you need like an entire like shell manager to manage all of your Z shell or, or Phish or whatever plugins. And I think that you could probably accomplish a lot of it with, with fig and then with their long term goal is that they have an API where they’re wanting people to build like apps that you could access within the terminal using fig, which is, is kind of a cool concept. [00:27:40] Hmm. Yeah, it looks [00:27:41] Brett: I would have to give it more of a shot. Uh, in initially it did not do a better job than Phish of completion. And it had the downside of popping up, uh, a window while I’m typing that it, it bugged me a little and like, uh, Phish is [00:28:00] completion. Like if I type get, or if I type get add, and I only have one onstage file in the current directory, when I hit tab, it just fills in the one file. [00:28:10] It knows I need to add, uh, and I, I don’t see fig being able to do that kind of completion. [00:28:16] Christina: Yeah, no, that’s probably, that’s probably true. Uh, I think that for someone like you, who has things like as performant and as like customized as you are, I would be like, I don’t know. Like, I, I, I feel like this might not be the right tool for you, unless you could build things or really customize it to your liking. [00:28:31] And in which case, I don’t know if it would be any better than anything you have, but what is nice about it is that you can get completions for stuff because there’s a whole community of, of stuff that you might not be able to have completions for for Phish, like realistically. Right. Like, I, I, I don’t know if anybody is gonna be spending the time to try to do something or even if it would be like possible in, in, in a way to have like an AWS type of, you know, autocomplete setup. [00:28:55] Brett: Did you know that Phish can scan man pages and create completions [00:29:00] automatically for any CLI you have installed? [00:29:02] Christina: I did not know that, but that is cool. [00:29:04] Brett: It is cool. [00:29:04] Jeff: Did you know that the term man pages is just creepy for me? [00:29:08] Brett: Yeah. Would, would you alias it to [00:29:10] Jeff: I just like show, [00:29:12] Brett: show, [00:29:12] Jeff: you know, [00:29:14] Brett: Hey, [00:29:14] Jeff: but I mean, I might change it to like sparkle or something, you know, just make it a little funer [00:29:18] Brett: I poured the help command to Phish. So if [00:29:22] Christina: yeah, yeah. [00:29:22] Brett: Phish [00:29:24] Christina: yeah, no, you said that [00:29:25] Brett: except [00:29:26] Christina: now works with it. [00:29:27] Brett: I hooked it up to dash, uh, cuz it internally, if you use help in Phish, it. [00:29:33] opens a web browser, which I hate, uh, [00:29:36] Christina: Mm-hmm [00:29:37] Brett: if you use man on the same command, it’ll load the page as a man page or a show page for Jeff. Um, [00:29:45] Jeff: Hey, you guys wanna go out and make some man pages? [00:29:48] Brett: but I overloaded it. [00:29:49] So now it opens a Phish doc set in dash, which is better to me than a browser tab. So anyway, help now with Phish, [00:30:00] [00:30:00] Christina: Very cool. [00:30:00] Brett: did I, we talked about that, right? I don’t have to explain to everyone what help is. [00:30:05] Christina: No, we talked about help. [00:30:05] Brett: Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. All right. Have you guys seen, have you seen tail scale? [00:30:11] Christina: no. Yes. Oh, so cool. Tell, so tell me about, I told you about [00:30:14] Brett: yeah, I was gonna say, I think, I think that Christine actually told me about it. [00:30:18] Jeff: Christina, have you seen this thing you [00:30:20] Jeff and Christina: told [00:30:20] Christina: me about? [00:30:21] Brett: I hadn’t, I hadn’t done anything with them until I was going through available packages for my Sonology and I saw tail scale. I’m like, oh yeah, I remember that. Uh, let’s try it out. And so I loaded it up on my Sonology and then loaded it up on my Mac mini and my MacBook pro and my iPhone and my iPad. [00:30:40] And what it does is basically with one sign on, in my case, I sign on with GitHub, all of those machines. Now, no matter where they are in the world are on a VPN together. And I can, I can SSH and, and load each. I can load my home [00:31:00] Mac minis hard drive in the iOS files app on my phone from anywhere in the world. [00:31:07] And it is pretty slick. And it’s free to, if you have like a single user account, it’s free to set up. It takes like two minutes. There’s No, configuration. it’s amazing. [00:31:18] Christina: No, it’s fantastic. And I mean, the reason I suggested it to you before is cuz you were doing something more complicated and less, um, like good, um, with, with your own system so that you could kind of avoid your, your, your VPN thing. And that’s why I suggested it, but no, what’s cool about it too is it’s got a free user plan. [00:31:35] I did actually mostly cuz I wanted to support them. I’m paying for or the, um, uh, the personal pro plan. They basically only introduced because they wanted to give people who like wanted to give them money, uh, who are enterprises a chance to, but what’s cool is you can add people. Two, like you can share, um, networks and computers with people by just, you know, inviting them kind of to your thing by just, you know, giving them an email address, uh, like by, [00:32:00] by, just by you, you know, uh, doing an email thing, there’s also a way where like, if you have like a GitHub, um, organization, even if it’s like, you know, like between your family, they have a free plan for that to, so, yeah. [00:32:12] I, I love it. Um, it’s, it’s the best way I’ve seen, like hands down of being able to make it so that you can remotely access all of your different machines. Like you said, your Sonology your Mac, your phone, whatnot. Cause it sets up wire guard and it sets up, you know, the tunneling stuff and, and the other things and it, it does it really, really well. [00:32:33] Um, I’m a, I’m a big fan, even your, even [00:32:36] Jeff: your raspberry pie. This [00:32:37] Christina: is awesome. Yeah. Yeah, it’s fantastic. Um, my friend, Brad, um, works there, Brad, uh, uh, was, uh, at Google for a really long time. And, uh, nineties kids might remember him as the creator of live journal. And, um, he, uh, and he, he went and, and Mim Cassidy, which is honestly, probably, uh, for important. [00:32:55] Um, and he was on the go team for a long time and, and he he’s working there. And, um, [00:33:00] that was when I first checked it out, cuz I was like, well, any place that Brad goes is gonna be cool. Uh, but I had like no idea, but they’re really great. They actually wrote a post this week that I like that I’ll put in the show notes. [00:33:11] It’s funny you brought this up about how our, our free plan stays free, which talks a little bit about the philosophy with their free plan, which I really appreciated, like also from a startup perspective, um, They’re not profitable yet, but they’ve taken outside funding. So that’s not really the goal right now. [00:33:27] Right? Like the goal is to grow and expand and to use the money that people give you not to immediately like, figure out, okay, well, we have to be profitable by this time. Um, but, uh, I don’t know. I like how their there’s stuff and their price scene works like for, for normal, like non enterprise users. [00:33:46] Because I think that they’re like the perfect example. And this is what they say, say in their blog post of like, if people like what we’re, what they’re using, they will then get their companies to pay for it. [00:33:58] Brett: Right. [00:33:59] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:34:00] Which is, which is a real thing. I mean, like, that’s kind of like what, I don’t think Docker executed as well on that, but if Docker had maybe better business plans earlier on, they would’ve done that. [00:34:08] Mm. Certainly GitHub has done that. Like there are a lot of things out there where yeah. It does kind of come from, starts with, you know, the, the devs who are like, okay, I’m I really like this shit on my own. I, I want like work to have this. [00:34:22] Brett: We’re not supposed to use Docker and tutorials at Oracle anymore. [00:34:28] Christina: but oh, because, [00:34:28] Brett: use virtual box. [00:34:31] Christina: oh, course what I’m thinking. Oh God, of course. . Oh God. Okay. But virtual box doesn’t even, doesn’t even work on M one max. [00:34:38] Brett: No, [00:34:39] Jeff: Uh, does that not work either on M one max? I actually, I would’ve bumped into that soon enough. [00:34:44] Brett: know, what does though? Docker? [00:34:46] Christina: What’s that? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Soccer does. [00:34:50] Brett: I did not stop using Docker. [00:34:55] Jeff: Um, you know, when you said earlier about tail scale, uh, Brett, you said, um, [00:35:00] you can use it, you can, you know, SSH in or get access from anywhere in the world. I realized how meaningless the term from anywhere in the world has become. Right. it’s like, well, I don’t know. I mean, the, like I might be in my garage [00:35:12] Brett: I’m excited cuz I’m going to Spain. And if I can SSH into my home, many from Spain, I will turn around and give money to tail scale. Of course. I’ll also be curious to see if my, my dynamic DNS setup works. Uh, there’s no reason it shouldn’t, but we’ll see. I have many things to experiment with. I just want to do it from across the ocean. [00:35:35] Just, just to prove I can. [00:35:37] Christina: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Um, I mean, I, I can’t speak for your setup, but it’s certainly been those things. Cause I’ve been using tail scale for a while and it’s only improved. And I was actually using it two years ago when I was traveling frequently. And it was one of those things where it was nice. Like if I had a computer, like I had my IAC or whatever at home, um, I didn’t have everything up running then like have the Sonology package then or whatever, but it was one of those things. [00:35:58] It was like, yep. [00:36:00] I can, I can access this from across the ocean without having to do the other crazy stuff that I used to do. That’s nice. [00:36:09] Sponsor: TextExpander [00:36:09] Brett: Um, Hey Jeff, before I ask you about a tweet of yours, do you wanna tell us about tax expander? [00:36:17] Christina: I would love to tell [00:36:17] Jeff: I would love to tell you about text expander. And this is me doing that in our fast-paced world. Things change constantly and errors in messaging often have significant consequences. Text lets you make new approved messaging available to every team member instantly with just a few keystrokes, ensuring your team remains consistent current and accurate. [00:36:38] Get your message right every time, expand content that corrects your spelling and keeps your language consistent with just a few keystrokes. Your team members will consistently know the right message for the right person at the right time, without relying on memory or a copy and paste, because it has a better memory than you do. [00:36:57] And it’s way faster than copy paste. Anyhow, [00:37:00] Overtired listeners get 20% off their first year. Visit text expander.com slow podcast. To learn more about text expander. Do you know how I’ve been using text expander this past week? [00:37:13] Brett: Do Tell [00:37:15] Jeff: I have a many years old snippet cause I’ve been using text expander since like the Clinton administration, right? [00:37:20] Um, that, uh, that helps me to send records requests when I’m requesting public data. Um, and I do it a lot in one spec, Pacific state, Nebraska for a project I’ve been working on for years and there are three different kinds of records requests I might make. And so I have R R one R R two and R R three, which expand into one of those types and give me all of the sort of blanks I need. [00:37:47] Like one is just for data. And so I would, you know, fill the part that says what the database name is or whatever, and it makes record requests so easy and wonderful. So anyway, [00:37:59] Brett: a [00:38:00] huge time saver. Um, [00:38:01] Christina: it is. [00:38:02] Brett: You have a real NPR voice when you read, uh, when you read [00:38:07] sponsor reads. Yeah. No, [00:38:09] Christina: can, I was gonna say it comes through. That’s awesome. [00:38:14] Brett: fresh air. Um, [00:38:16] Jeff: yeah, [00:38:17] Requirements.txt, But For Relationships [00:38:17] Brett: okay, so you sent your first tweet in almost a year. [00:38:21] Christina: No. Yeah. [00:38:22] Jeff: Well, what, what did I say? 332 day silence. Now that doesn’t include retweets of which there have been not a bazillion, but there have been many more and it doesn’t, it doesn’t include responses, which there aren’t that many, but there was a point around, man. When was it? It was in the midst of, of the aftermath of, of what happened to George Floyd. [00:38:49] And I mean, him being murdered and the protests here and all of the, um, all of the voices that just like bubbled up. I just kind of, I realized like, oh, I don’t really, [00:39:00] I don’t need to be a voice in this, but I do want to like have a record of this time. And so I’ll retweet things that I want to be my record of this time, basically. [00:39:11] Um, and, and once I got into that habit, It was like, especially because I was retweeting stuff of such consequence, it became much harder to make a tweet, like I made last night, which is just requirements dot text, but for all new relationships after age 35. Um, and I realized after I wrote that, I’m like, I don’t think I’ve actually just texted something or just tweeted something in like a very long time. [00:39:38] And I checked and it’s been [00:39:39] Christina: 332 days. Okay. So I wanna know more about this because this is interesting. Um, and the reason I wanna ask about this is like I’m addicted to Twitter and, and the only way I go off of it is when I, uh, piss off the psycho, ask a DSA who, um, try to docs me fuckers. Um, [00:40:00] yeah, yeah, fuck. [00:40:01] And I’m a, and I’m, I’m a fucking member, so again, fuck them. Um, yeah. Uh, so the only way I do that is like, if I’m getting like extreme harassment and I’m like, right, I need to just not be online right now. Because, uh, there’s a good friend of mine who she cannot stay off, uh, line when stuff goes down and she’s been the central, uh, she’s been the center of, of several really big like media, Twitter, shit storms in the last couple of weeks. [00:40:24] And, and I keep like telling her, like, you need to log off, but anyway, I can’t log off unless like, people are, are, are coming at me. So were you ever a big Twitter user? Like, was it ever something you used [00:40:37] Jeff: frequently? Yeah, I mean, I, I I’ve had my Twitter account since 2007 as a journalist. I used it all the time. [00:40:43] I usually, if I was working at a news organization or for a project that didn’t have its own Twitter account, I’d always make one and manage it. Um, I’ve always, I mean, I remember I had this memory the other day. I don’t know. Do you remember, like, maybe you can still do this, but in the early days [00:41:00] you could get tweets in, uh, as, as SMS [00:41:03] Christina: messages? [00:41:04] Yes, I do. Cause it’s 4 0 4. Oh, that’s right. Yeah. And, [00:41:07] Brett: like Twitter was built around SMS to start with. [00:41:10] Christina: It was, it was, I was covering the [00:41:11] Jeff: Republican convention here. And, um, and that was like the first time I really was using Twitter in a, like, I actually really need to know what’s happening kind of way. Um, and I got, I got such a huge phone bill because of all the texts I got because of all the tweets I was getting on my God flip or whatever. [00:41:30] Um, anyway, so I, so I’ve never been someone who tweets like multiple times a day. Um, I have my relationship with Twitter has been as a, as a watcher. And as a curator, I love using Twitter. There are obviously so many reasons to hate it. I’m also not a woman and I’m a white man and like a CIS white man. And so like my, the experiences I hear from friends who are not CIS white men, it’s just like Twitter [00:42:00] is an entirely different fucking experience. [00:42:02] Right. And so for me, I, I do like it as a sort of curation thing as a way of, I like to make lists. I have a lot of private Twitter lists that just make sure that I’m, I’m like kind of curating a set of voices that I wanna be sure I’m hearing and [00:42:18] Christina: I’m not. Do you, do you use tweet deck? Yeah, I do use tweet deck. [00:42:21] Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna say that’s the way that you can, I was gonna say that’s the only way that lists can work at all with Twitter is if you’re using tweet deck. Yeah, [00:42:29] Jeff: totally. And so for me, the reason I, I stopped altogether was partly just what was happening in my desire to just not be, um, a voice in that, but to just kind of really look for voices that, that felt really meaningful to me in that time. [00:42:45] Sure. Um, I wouldn’t say amplify them cuz I’ve only got 1500 followers. Right. But like, but you know, that was the idea. Um, I. I have, I , I had a problem for a long time with Twitter. Facebook was like [00:43:00] this a little bit, but Twitter was like this more where when I tweeted, I felt like I sent a little piece of myself out in the world that having lost that little puzzle piece made me feel a little off all day, uh, in this same way that I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this, but I, for most of my life, if I leave like a dinner party or something, I spend the rest of the night, um, replaying all of the ways in which I’m sure I made an ass of myself. [00:43:26] Um, or I’m sure I took up too much space or I’m sure I didn’t consider this when I said this thing, like that’s something I struggled with for a really long time. And with Twitter, a similar thing, like once I put, would put a tweet out there, I’d immediately think of all the ways in which. Maybe this isn’t the thing I should have said right now, or whatever, like really kind of obsess over it. [00:43:46] And it would just steal all of my energy. And so I wanted to become just a strictly a listener, but I’ve done a lot of therapy since then. And last night I just decided maybe I’ll try putting some tweets into the world and not really worry about what it means as long [00:44:00] as I’m not being mean. [00:44:02] Christina: I like it. I like it. [00:44:03] And, and, and also, okay. Do you have any suggestions, like what would be in, in, in your, uh, in, in your like requirements dot textile? [00:44:15] Jeff: you know, what’s funny is that I, I wanted to just give that a lot of deep thought, but I didn’t, and I’m real really wanna ask you guys first, because Brett said you couldn’t have a contributors dot text file until after the third date. Mm-hmm . And for me, I’m not just talking, dating, I’m talking even like friendships, you know? [00:44:34] Um, because for me, where it came from is like, I’ve had a bunch of new friendships since 35, even since 40, which I didn’t see coming. And I was really excited about it, but I realized just how much work you have to do to go, oh no, you have to understand. I’ve always been like that, you know, like, because you know, you meet in some context, but then you have to kind of explain stuff that you felt like you were done having [00:45:00] to explain to anybody. [00:45:01] Right? [00:45:01] Brett: line, one of my requirements text file would be, you have to be okay with not hearing from me for a month and be able to pick back up right where we left off. [00:45:12] Christina: Hmm. Yeah. I like that. I, and that is a good one. Like, that’s, that’s a good thing for people to know and to be aware of. I think, I feel like that’s both something that I feel like what’s nice about. Like, I like this idea, the requirements dot text is that it’s both letting, preparing people like, okay, this is why I’m gonna need from you. [00:45:29] But also it’s kind of like, uh, in, in some ways you could, um, You know, set it up for people like this is what you’re gonna get from me too. Right? Like, yeah. Yeah. Like a relationship. Everyone’s exactly like, everyone’s kind of clear about what’s going on here. I like that. Yeah. [00:45:43] Jeff: I mean, I do. I think it’s a, there’s, it’s a thing to figure out like, cuz I, I didn’t actually think I’d be making new friends after 40. [00:45:52] I just thought it all, all be pretty locked in. Right. And it’s not been like a Rocky experience at all, but it has been this kind of thing [00:46:00] where it’s like, you can get two years into that friendship and realize, oh, there’s this thing that I took for granted, you already knew about me from like, you know, many, many years ago because everyone knows this about me, but you don’t know it. [00:46:12] Right. So let’s figure this out. Like, so not like deep secrets. [00:46:17] Christina: Right. But just like, no, no, totally. But just like things knowing about like, like for me, I’m like, I’m gonna talk a lot. Um, I listen to you, but you can tell me to shut the fuck up and that’s fine, but I I’m gonna talk a lot. Like that’s one of those things that you just kind of need to know that um, no, I think that’s interesting. [00:46:30] I will say though, And I, and I hope that, that this has not been the case for either of you. And, and I hope that like, especially like you and I, like, we we’re becoming, like, we’re becoming friends, you know, like we’re obviously doing this podcast together, but I really like you. And I really like getting to know you, but I think it’s kind of sad to think that people wouldn’t be making friends after 40. [00:46:48] Like, I, I hope that that’s not how. Life evolves, you know? Right, [00:46:53] Jeff: right, right. I don’t know. I was told that that’s what, that would be the case and it just hasn’t been true. So [00:46:58] Christina: I, [00:47:00] I think that I, I, I will say this. I know for me it is difficult cuz I don’t have kids and I’m not going to have kids mm-hmm and there is a difference, like when your friends all start having kids, they have less time to be able to do things and you do have to work around different sorts of schedules and different sorts of other things. [00:47:15] And I totally understand that. Um, it is more difficult to make friends, I think, as you’re older, but I feel like having that human connection and being able to meet new people is in some ways more important because you are kind of stuck with that, you know, just the, the same people you’re around, you know? [00:47:33] Jeff: Totally. Um, yeah. Well, oh, [00:47:35] Christina: go ahead, Brett. [00:47:36] Brett: I was gonna say, if, if left to my own devices, I would never meet people cuz I’m not, I don’t go outta my way to like introduce myself to people. But the like the amount of free software and everything that I share leads to some very interesting people reaching out and like thanking me or, or showing me what they’ve been working on. [00:47:59] And [00:48:00] I feel like I meet new people every week and some of them become like lasting friendships. I have, I have people I’ve known for like seven years now because. They sent me an email one day to thank me for something I wrote and we just became friends. That’s how I met my rabbi. Yeah, Like I, I don’t have to work at it, which is good. [00:48:18] Cuz if I did, I wouldn’t have any friends. [00:48:20] Christina: I had this, [00:48:21] Jeff: the, the thing about being a parent that was, um, really frustrating for me. And if anybody is listening, who is a friend I made through being a parent, if we’re still friends, this doesn’t apply to you. Um, is that there, you know, like Laurel and I used to have a potluck every week at our house, like Thursday nights. [00:48:40] Like there’s like a core group of people, but anybody can invite anybody. And, and when we first started doing that probably for the first, like six months, there really wasn’t anybody with kids. I mean, we had a kid. But it, we weren’t the type of people that like only talked about kids when we had a kid kind of thing. [00:48:57] Right. And, and there were people that were single, [00:49:00] there were people that were recently divorced or like in a new relationship or whatever, at a certain point, our potluck became mostly people with kids and those kids were there. And the whole thing came about this environment that was, you know, filled with kids, lovely, wonderful kids. [00:49:18] And all of a sudden it wasn’t about just being grownups in a room together. And for, and we ended up kind of stopping the pot cuz it just didn’t feel good. And so like my, I had a sort of, I had to add a package to my requirements back meant. Right. Which is just like, Hey, if we met because we’re parents I’m down with talking about, what’s hard about being a parent or what’s wonderful about it, but like we are not gonna meet just to sort of. [00:49:44] Share around the fact that we both have a kid, like I need adult conversation interaction [00:49:52] Christina: anyway. Yeah, no, no. I, I think you’re right. And, and I hear that from my friends who have kids too, that they’re like, I need this, I need more of those things. I think it’s [00:50:00] important. It’s interesting. There have been some attempts. [00:50:02] I think it’s some of the, the dating apps have done like friendship type finder things. I wonder how well that works because I wouldn’t be, I would be open to using that sort of thing. I think it’d be especially good for people who go to new cities. My fear with it would be to be completely candid. I almost wonder if it needs to be a completely separate brand would be that people would just, you would still have people who are like using it, thinking they’re gonna they’re they’re gonna fuck. [00:50:23] Right. Right. Like it, you know, like, like you, you don’t know that, but I do feel like. [00:50:29] Jeff: What would that package be called? What would the package, the we’re not necessarily gonna fuck package be called. Hmm. I’ll think of [00:50:36] Christina: it. [00:50:37] Torah Portion [00:50:37] Christina: yeah. Yeah. Think about it. Um, I, you, when you mentioned your, your rabbi, uh, Brett and this’ll actually, I think be a really good, um, segue into us talking about the apps that we’re thankful for. [00:50:46] The best thing that I read online this week was this article in, um, input, uh, called, um, his software saying the words of God, then it went silent and it is, um, By, um, um, [00:51:00] SI Rosenbaum and it is about a piece of software called trope trainer, which, um, uh, people would use when they were training, like for their bar or their bot mitzvah. [00:51:10] And, and so it would, you know, kind of teach the Torah and, and Hebrew and things like that. And it was beloved by the people who used it. And it had a single developer who, um, was kind of an interesting, uh, guy he had, uh, kind of, uh, joined Orthodox Judaism, um, after being in a more, um, uh, I guess like, you know, like, um, uh, what’s [00:51:33] Brett: Reform. [00:51:33] Christina: having reform. [00:51:34] Yeah. He he’d been more reform and, and he, uh, you know, uh, became more Orthodox, but he was a gay man and had previously, I think, kind of dabbled in some other kind of like, uh, more esoteric, you know, religions and things like that. He was a really interesting guy that was a software developer and he died. [00:51:51] And when he died, uh, because he was the sole developer of the software. The software basically went under because no one had a copy of the source code or, or, [00:52:00] or anything. Um, and at this point, the 32 bit versions only exist. And so like the, the windows version only works on windows seven. Um, although I’m actually in touch with some people right now, trying to see if there are some, uh, modifications that some of the windows people can make to it work better on windows 10 and windows 11. [00:52:18] Um, and the 32 version, um, on Macs obviously will only work on, you know, um, uh, versions prior to, uh, uh, I guess Catalina and, um, uh, below, um, and, and obviously won’t work on, on our max. And so, but a lot of people, it, there used to be an, the iOS app and that, that is no longer on the store. And, and it’s just kind of is this really sad and kind of interesting story about how much this app is meant to people and people’s attempts at trying to kind of salvage it and, and, and keep it and whatnot, and kind of the search for who this person was, but it’s, it’s an incredibly powerful story. [00:52:55] And I, I thought about it. Um, I, I would’ve, I think I would’ve mentioned it [00:53:00] regardless because it’s just a fantastic read, but it really got me thinking, especially since we’re talking about like our software gratitude, stuff like that, there are these things. And also, I think it makes sense to when we’re talking about like relationships, like there are these, these people and these things is in your life that sometimes you don’t know how important they are to you until they’re not available anymore. [00:53:20] Brett: Yeah. That’s [00:53:21] Jeff: it makes me wonder, it makes me wonder if either of you, you know, in GitHub you can designate somebody who would essentially, um, Uh, would get control of your, your repos and your GitHub account if you [00:53:33] Christina: died. I think they do have that feature. I don’t know if it’s like for individual stuff, but I think on for per project, things I think is actually a feature where, where for orgs or whatever, where you can designate like a, a next of, you know, like in, in, in case of death thing, cuz that’s happened before. [00:53:47] We’re really important projects, a main maintainer has died and it’s been like literally like a hit by a bus thing. Yeah. And you know, what, what do you do? So I think there is like a governance thing there, but it’s a, I think that’s an [00:54:00] important reminder. What’s so sad about this particular case is that, um, his, uh, his husband, um, I think had maybe sold the computer doesn’t know where it was, but hadn’t really talk contact with people. [00:54:11] So it doesn’t seem like it’s likely that anyone will be able to track down. The computer, he had to even get his, his source code, which, which is really, really unfortunate. Um, so the best thing I think that chance we have is probably working at, okay, what can we do from an archival standpoint? Or what can maybe, you know, people working internally at Microsoft do to, to make the, the software at flags to make it work better, um, on, on newer operating systems, macOS, it’s, it’s a lost cause. [00:54:41] But, um, I was, I was, well, it, you know, cuz they don’t care about that sort of thing. Yeah. Um, but I was turned onto this because of a person I, I follow on Twitter had mentioned to me. A few minutes back that they were still running VMs, like for, for 32 bit apps. And cuz I, I had asked the question, I was like at this point, you know, [00:55:00] I, I, I, I could only think like that the most, you know, like ridiculous edge cases of why you would still have like a VM running to run a 32 bit Mac app. [00:55:08] Like I could see that there might be a reason, but I would only see like the edge cases. And someone mentioned that there he was running one solely for, um, a specific app and he told me, um, after the story came out of, this was the app that he still has a VM to run. Whoa. Yeah. Wow. Anyway, anyway, it it’s kind of a sad thing, but it also is. [00:55:30] I think there’s, it’s kind of affirming to, in a sense, just to see how many people cared about this piece of software. So totally. I highly recommend people read it. It’s it’s a long read. Um, I, uh, I’ll be honest. My, a very good friend of mine works at input as their reviews editor, but I, I didn’t expect this type of story, um, from them, like this is it’s, it’s exceptional. [00:55:50] It would’ve been good at any outlet on and kudos to input for, um, you know, taking the pitch. Um, and, um, because it’s, uh, it’s one of those things where [00:56:00] it is far away, the best thing I read all week. That’s awesome. [00:56:04] Brett: I was slightly distracted cuz I started reading it and you’re right. It’s very it’s it’s gripping. [00:56:10] The Grapptitude List [00:56:10] Brett: Um, so, uh, we, we brought up the idea last week of, uh, like a gratitude list for absent indie developers. And uh, I, I made a, I made a long list. I know you guys put some stuff together and I was thinking it would be kind of a fun, uh, we have mental health corn at the beginning and we have, uh, whatever we want to call a, a, a aptitude list, um, at the end. Um, and just like, w we could just do one, maybe two, but like one each I think uh, [00:56:44] Christina: oneish, I love [00:56:45] Brett: and we can make it a weekly thing and highlight some of our favorite apps and developers. [00:56:50] Jeff: Here’s my question. Can it be a single developer or a single app? Because I have an, I have two [00:57:00] developers in mind and one of them, it’s just, it’s kind of a Brett turf just situation where it’s like check out these five crazy ass things, [00:57:07] Christina: you know? [00:57:07] Brett: developer or it. [00:57:08] can be one app or who fucking cares. Cuz there are no rules. [00:57:13] Christina: Yeah. [00:57:14] Brett: whatever, whatever, whatever you think fits you’re right. [00:57:19] Christina: I love it. I love [00:57:20] Brett: Do you wanna go first, Jeff? [00:57:21] Christina: Yeah, [00:57:22] Jeff: I’ll go first. Um, so the first developer I wanted to express gratitude to is, um, his name is Anish atalier. I think atalier is how. Anisha’s last name is pronounced and I hope I got it right. It’s a grad student at MIT who has written a number of, kind of amazing tools. I mean, actually there’s only about five tools of all of his tools or apps or utilities that I actually even understand. [00:57:50] Um, but he’s, he created something called.bot, which we’ve talked about before, which is basically a way of like bootstrapping your dot files. Yep. [00:58:00] Um, I actually just recently used.bot when switching over everything to my, um, new M one laptop and it was amazing how beautifully it worked. Um, but he also has, he has this app called lumen. [00:58:14] That’s amazing that basically like. It’s a, so it’s a menu bar application for Macs that, that sets the screen brightness based on your screen contents. And so on the one hand it’s doing this like pretty basic understandable stuff of like, if you’re in a, a black terminal, then it’s gonna, you know, like it’s gonna adjust its that way. [00:58:33] Or if you have a full screen white screen, it’s gonna bring down, but it can also learn what you do when you get to a certain type of app. If you go and you, you know, say make it less bright or make it more bright. Um, and it’s, it’s something you can brew install. You can just brew, install lumen. Um, and it’s so fricking cool. [00:58:51] And then, so there’s dot bot. There’s lumen. He has something called Periscope that I’m only just starting to play with, but it’s been you in my queue [00:59:00] forever. He, the way he says it is, it gives you duplicate vision to help you organize and de duplicate your files without losing data. It’s just a really smart way of finding and dealing with duplicates. [00:59:12] And I have this problem. Massively. And so I’ve been waiting for a while until I had kind of the presence of mind to try to apply this to my, uh, dumpster fire situation. Um, and so there’s that piece. And then the last thing I wanted to say that he does this thing called seashells, which like lets you pipe output from command line programs to the web in real time. [00:59:36] Oh, that’s cool. And it’s so fun to play with. Uh, and so anyway, that’s, that’s what Anish does. Um, the, the second developer is just, uh, not just is a, a fellow named Christopher Gross. Who’s a, he’s a journalist he’s worked for news organizations forever. He currently works for I 38. Um, he’s a developer, I’ve used one [01:00:00] of his tools for more than a decade. [01:00:03] It’s called CSV kit. And it’s just a way of, of interacting with either Excel spreadsheets or CSV files and doing all kinds of just. Awesome analysis and audits of that file without ever having to crack it. And for me, when I discovered this, I was doing a lot of data journalism with, with government files, which just meant a lot of just totally bananas, Excel files. [01:00:28] Yep. Um, and, and Christopher, because he was working at the time for the Chicago Tribune and. Team. He, he just like, he knew all of the ways in which you could encounter craziness in an Excel file. And he accounted for that by stitching together a whole bunch of tools. It’s a Python based utility and, uh, and, and making this thing CSV kit, and it continues to be awesome and super useful to me, I’ve script it. [01:00:53] I’ve used it in scripts. It’s just lovely. And the other thing he did that I really, really recommend is he was [01:01:00] working at courts and he made the courts guide to bad data. Nice. And it is, he’s got like, he’s got Brett, you’re such a great writer of documentation and kind of describing things, gross cough has that similar thing. [01:01:14] Like he’s just very he’s. He is someone I have called the Brett Terpstra of, of news nerds to you, Brett. Um, but anyway, those are the two I wanted to highlight today. Just do wonderful work that, um, get me excited and, and make me wanna play computers. [01:01:30] Brett: Will you throw some links in the show notes for us? [01:01:32] Christina: I did they’re at the bottom. [01:01:34] Brett: Oh, that makes sense. Cuz that’s where the whole gratitude list is. [01:01:37] Jeff: You know, it put the gratitude at the bottom. That’s what they always say. That’s what all the Notah books told [01:01:43] Christina: me. [01:01:43] Brett: All right, Christina, what app slash developers are you? [01:01:47] Christina: I I’m, I’m I’m gonna do one. Um, because I, uh, I, I did, I, I didn’t think enough for, for two. Um, I mean, I could talk about more, but the one I wanna focus on is, uh, kaleidoscope, which, um, we’ve talked about [01:02:00] before. Uh, but they just released a new version this week, um, and, uh, co kaleidoscope, uh, for people who aren’t familiar is a diff tool for Mac that has had a really complicated, like backstory in terms of who owned it. [01:02:12] It was originally, um, created by, uh, sofa or designed by sofa who, uh, also made versions, which at the time was like the prettiest, like SVN client back when people still used SVN. And, um, and I think they, they might have done something else too. And, uh, Facebook acquired them and then they sold their apps. [01:02:31] Uh, like I, they actually, then I think that team went on to design Facebook paper, if anyone remembers that, um, then, um, they, they sold it to, uh, I think it was, uh, it was black, uh, [01:02:41] Brett: My pixel. [01:02:42] Christina: black pixel, um, which is no longer around and black pixel kept it going for, for a while. Um, but, but didn’t, and, and updated it, like, I think like they gave it like one big kind of update and, and that was kind of it, like, they, they did some bug fixes, but that was kind of it. [01:02:56] Then it sold to someone else briefly who didn’t really [01:03:00] do anything with it. And then finally, um, It’s a long time Mac developers, uh, acquired it last at the end of last year and released a really big, uh, 3.0, um, update. And, um, I’ve been really impressed with it. I, I bought it. I will admit, you know, I never expected to spend that much on a dif tool. [01:03:20] And I, and I don’t know if yeah, that’s 150 bucks. Yeah. And I do don’t know if it’s one of those things that most people could justify buying to be completely honest with you, because I feel like most dip tools, uh, for what most people use them for, uh, get lens or, or, or things that are built into other [01:03:34] Brett: merge. Yeah. [01:03:35] Christina: file merge beyond compare. [01:03:37] Like there, there are, uh, uh, other other tools out there that I think that, um, can, can get a lot of, of what’s done done for, for less money. However, I wanted to support the devs. They’ve continued to update it. One of the things I always liked about the zap was the fact that you could compare not just. [01:03:57] Text files or other sorts of, of data files, but even [01:04:00] images and other stuff. And, and it makes it really easy to, to do that. And, um, they just released, um, their, their newest version has, um, a, a safari, um, extension within developer tools, as well as the vs code extension, which is nice. And, and they’ve been making solid updates and, and adding solid features. [01:04:16] And so I want this to work out for them, you know, like again, they’re also not doing a subscription thing, which would be probably the smarter thing to do when you launch, um, essentially a net new app in this way. Um, and, and it’s hard to take an app that has had three different owners and who has a loyal user base, but also. [01:04:37] you know, you, you wanna, you wanna revive it, but you, you know, like how much do you change? How do you not? Like, I feel like they balanced it really well. And so I wanna give them, um, a gratitude because even if you’re not in a position to spend $150 on a dip tool, which I totally understand, I’m glad that somebody is making apps like this still for the Mac, because it’s rare that we see people who are still putting this much effort and, and [01:05:00] frankly like taking like on the risk of, of making this sort of investment in, in the platform. [01:05:05] So [01:05:06] Brett: So [01:05:06] here’s the coolest thing about that new safari extension they added you can, it, it adds, uh, a chaos diff I think is the command that it adds to the debugger. And then you can add break points and attach it as an event so that every time it loops through, uh, it can open up another, uh, tab in the diff window and you can choose which, and you can compare any, any, you can compare any iteration of an object of any JavaScript object. [01:05:36] In yourif tool. It’s really slick. [01:05:39] Christina: That’s so cool. [01:05:40] Jeff: It, it looks amazing. Poor, poor, little orphan, happy like Jesus, how many different parents has this thing had. That is very sad and it’s wonderful to see it in such great care [01:05:52] Brett: It’s great to see a foster kid succeed. [01:05:55] Jeff: and I’m actually downloading the free trial right now. [01:06:00] I am really hoping I have been wanting to do some D work on different translations of, of Toto novels. [01:06:08] Oh, cool. done it before, but, uh, I wasn’t satisfied with the results. So I’ll try this one on here. [01:06:15] Brett: that is quite the undertaking. [01:06:17] Jeff: lovely. Some Toto. [01:06:19] Brett: All right. Um, I will, I guess, gotta go with better touch tool since for, for our inaugural, our inaugural aptitude list. Um, better touch tool is the thing that I use every day, all day. And I, after text expander, it’s the first app. I notice if it’s missing, like, I, I, I have so many shortcuts and if I hold down control and option and whatever, whatever window is under my mouse moves, I don’t have to like go up and grab the toolbar or anything. [01:06:54] I just hold control, option and move. And, and I move the window and little things like that becomes so [01:07:00] ingrained for me that I immediately, I immediately fumble if it’s not running. [01:07:06] Christina: Hmm. Yeah. [01:07:08] Brett: Plus he’s, he’s, he’s he’s a man after my own heart. The developer, [01:07:14] Christina: Yes. [01:07:14] Brett: Andreas. Yeah. He, he just, he adds like right now, he is, got a whole bunch of stuff for the notch. [01:07:20] Uh, he did a bunch of stuff for the touch bar. He even has like, uh, screen, uh, well, what’s the stream deck stuff coming [01:07:29] Christina: Oh, [01:07:29] Brett: like [01:07:29] Christina: he? That’s exciting [01:07:30] Brett: Yeah. Anything that you can hack, he, he hacks into it and it’s, it’s like a, it’s a love child. and, and I love it. [01:07:39] Jeff: love [01:07:39] Brett: And it’s on, it’s on, uh [01:07:42] Christina: thumbs up. [01:07:43] Brett: Yeah, it’s on setup. [01:07:44] Jeff: Awesome. Yeah, it is. So I have just been amazed at how that that tool just sticks around and sticks around and keeps adding things. And it’s like the quiet little power monster in the corner. [01:07:56] Brett: Yeah. [01:07:57] Christina: 100%. That was fun. [01:07:59] Brett: Yeah. I [01:08:00] I think we should make a habit of this. We have so many apps to talk about. [01:08:05] Christina: We do. And I love it. And, and I love in great name. Um, uh, Brett. [01:08:09] Brett: I think it’s actually a horrible name, but it’s just horrible enough that it might work. [01:08:13] Jeff: Aptitude. No, I think you gotta really hit the G. [01:08:17] Brett: Yeah, exactly. You don’t want to it’s otherwise it’s crap and you don’t want that. [01:08:21] Christina: Yeah. Aptitude. Yeah. I love it. That’s awesome. [01:08:26] Brett: All right. Hey, that was a, I’m gonna call it an O K episode. I feel like I was really off. [01:08:33] Christina: You feel like you were off? [01:08:35] Brett: Yeah. [01:08:35] This in here. This is our, this is our post mortem live on the air. I feel like I was kind of edgy and, and talking over people cuz I wasn’t patient. I feel like I need some sleep. [01:08:47] Jeff: Well, that’s sleep is, you know, that’s, someone’s about to tell you to get some, [01:08:53] Brett: Do you wanna. [01:08:53] Christina: sleep boys. see, [01:08:56] Jeff: get some sleep. [01:08:57] Brett: Kids.[01:09:00]

A little mental health, a lot of Mac talk, some software, some hardware… this one is for the geeks. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe—from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Stop paying crazy wireless bills and switch to Mint Mobile. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to mintmobile.com/overtired. Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. Show Links Vyvanse Minimal English Mac Studio Macstudio By Microdental Laboratories CalDigit Thunderbolt Station 4 Rancher VS Code Apple Silicon direct build download link Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 277 [00:00:00] Christina: You’re listening to overtired. I’m Christina Warren joined as always by Brett Terpstra and Jeff Severns Guntzel. Gentlemen, how are you? [00:00:14] Brett: perfect. [00:00:15] Jeff: So good. [00:00:18] Christina: Tired. [00:00:18] Brett: you want to know Why? [00:00:20] Christina: Why? [00:00:21] Brett: I got my Vyvanse? [00:00:22] Jeff: Woo. [00:00:24] Brett: I, I called in a couple days early just to make sure that it would actually work out this time. And instead of setting the refill date to be like exactly when I was going to run out of Focalin, she just went ahead and made it available on Friday, actually on Thursday, but I didn’t pick it up until Friday and I didn’t start it until this morning. [00:00:46] We’re recording on Saturday. So this is my first day back on Vyvanse after weeks of no stimulants and a year since I’ve been on Vyvanse and I’m really happy it’s it’s treating me well. [00:00:59] Christina: I’m so [00:01:00] happy for you. Cause that was rough for you. Like not having anything. Having to go through the stimulant withdrawal and having to go off of like the Focalin, which you enjoy. And I’m also dealing with the, you know, like the, I guess the fact that the focal ended increase the manic episodes. [00:01:18] Brett: The thing Focalin really gives you a jolt of dopamine. And I had really come to rely on, uh, having a lot of dopamine and then going without any stimulants, you have this glut of dopamine and it is, it leads to some pretty bad depression. Like there’s not, I don’t have like stimulant withdrawal, like they’re out of my system in 24 hours. [00:01:45] And there’s no like physiological, uh, issues with just going off stimulants, but the depression that’ll get you. [00:01:57] Jeff: Do you have to dial in the dosage or do you know [00:02:00] from previously using at [00:02:01] Brett: W we went right back to the dosage I was on when I had originally switched away from Vyvanse. And I had gone through like a couple of other like Conserta and stuff like that. But, uh, even at I’m at 60 milligrams, which I’m pretty sure is the max dose, [00:02:18] Jeff: Yeah. [00:02:18] Brett: at 60, like Vyvanse just isn’t that effective for me. [00:02:22] It is it’s the mildest of all the stimulants I’ve ever been on. So doing any less than 60 seemed kind of feudal [00:02:31] Jeff: Oh man. It kicks my ass at 60. I had to go to 20 I’m. Uh, I don’t use it right now, but I had to go to 20, which was surprised me. [00:02:39] Brett: that’s because you’re weak. [00:02:41] Jeff: Yeah. We [00:02:42] Christina: go ahead. Sorry. No, I know it’s a no tell, tell, tell me you tell me what happened when you were on. [00:02:47] Jeff: Well, two things. One is, um, I felt do you know, I used to describe being over-caffeinated as like, uh, I had this feeling of dread that something terrible was happening to somebody I [00:03:00] love right at this very moment. [00:03:01] Right? Like it was this like almost metaphysical sort of, uh, [00:03:06] agitation that, that coffee gave me 60 milligrams of Vyvanse me that and just made me almost impossible to talk to. Like, I was just so quick to respond, even if it wasn’t like an agitated response, just so quick to respond. And then I truly went into the like levels of hypertension. [00:03:26] I was tracking my blood pressure and everything. So I was like, oh, wait, I got to stop this. [00:03:31] Brett: Speaking of hypertension. So last week we recorded on Saturday. I had had quite the blowup with my parents in the morning, and I want to officially apologize for being such an asshole last week. Like I was so negative and so like angry and upset and it made for a rough episode when I had to listen to it when I was editing. [00:03:54] So, anyway, sorry about. [00:03:55] Jeff: I think the only, only people who deserve your apology are the give brothers. [00:03:59] Christina: I [00:04:00] would agree with [00:04:00] Brett: W we’ll, we’ll come back around to that. Um, so, uh, then that, like I had, I had a pretty good day, pretty relaxed chill day with my girlfriend. And then at midnight, I woke up with my heart pounding and I actually woke up around 11 with my heart pounding and I laid there for an hour waiting for it to calm down and be able to fall back asleep. [00:04:26] But you know how, when you can hear your heart in your ear and like, you can’t follow that. To that. And like I tried rolling in every position couldn’t fall asleep and then I started to feel my chest tightening. Um, so I was like it, I don’t think it’s a heart attack. It’s probably a panic attack, but I may need to go to the ER, uh, because I’ve been awake for two hours now. [00:04:53] It hasn’t slowed at all. And so I got my girlfriend up, we went to the ER, ended up in [00:05:00] the emergency room until 6:00 AM, uh, getting EKG and blood work and, and every test imaginable, uh, nothing came of it, but they were able to eliminate, basically, they were able to tell me I wasn’t dying. And, uh, so, so I went home, they discharged me, I went home and then within a couple hours, the chest pain became abdominal pain, like severe abdominal pain. [00:05:29] So then I was back in urgent care and it turned out to be an obstruction. And it probably like the whole thing was probably related to the obstruction. Um, got it. Taken care of, have you ever, do you know what Golightly is? [00:05:46] Jeff: is this for the colonoscopies? [00:05:48] Brett: it’s the stuff they gave you before a colonoscopy. And that’s what I had to do on [00:05:52] Sunday. [00:05:53] Jeff: the most dishonestly named [00:05:55] Brett: It really. [00:05:56] Christina: all of medicine. Does it make you shit, your brains [00:05:59] Brett: Yes, [00:06:00] four hours. And you just like, he comes in like a four or like a two, four liter jug and you have to keep pouring eight ounce glasses of it every 10 minutes and you just keep drinking it until you’re literally pooping water and it, and it just, it never ends. And then you’re falling asleep and you’re, you’re convinced like if you sneeze, you’re going to shit, the bed and it’s not fun, but you know how, you know, how studies have shown that gut health is tied to mental health. [00:06:32] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [00:06:33] Brett: I’m pretty sure that this complete reset of my gut biome like ended my depression, that I’d been going through. [00:06:40] Jeff: Um, because you shit, your brains out [00:06:44] Brett: Exactly. And my, and my mind apparently. [00:06:49] Jeff: that, so the, the way I have described that experience, I’ve only done it once, but I’m due to do it again. Cause I have to get a call on [00:06:55] that speak summit old man. Do do I [00:07:00] describe it? This is so gross outside, but it’s like, you know, you got the, if you’ve got a garden, hose has like a sprayer attached to it and you’ve left it on, but you didn’t know, and you’re trying to take the sprayer off and then all of a sudden it just shoots out and then it keeps going and you’re like, fuck, I gotta get, I gotta, how do I turn this off? [00:07:15] Like, that’s what that’s like on, on the, it comes from your butt. [00:07:18] Brett: Oh, man. This, this episode went to sh went to, went to the toilet very quickly. [00:07:24] Jeff: Oh, dad, [00:07:26] Brett: Yeah. [00:07:28] Jeff: how are you, Christina? [00:07:30] Christina: Um, I’m, I’m good. I’m good. Um, uh, haven’t had to shoot my brains out, which is excellent. Uh, and, uh, yeah. Um, I have some other point on that I can’t talk about yet, but, but think things are fairly good. Um, my mother-in-law had surgery and we were fairly worried about it because, even though she’s in her early eighties and it’s just a scary thing for people at that age to go under anesthesia, but she got through it like a champ, that’s, that’s really good. [00:07:57] Brett: Yeah, congrats. [00:07:59] Jeff: Yeah, that’s [00:08:00] great. I, I don’t look forward to that period of my life where going cause already you get like a weekend, like Brett just described leaves me feeling like, am I just broken already? I can’t imagine, you know, the vulnerability of being 80 [00:08:16] Brett: They w they weren’t. [00:08:17] Jeff: yourself. [00:08:18] Brett: When I turned 40 they’re like you are going to, your body is going to suddenly fart start. Your body is going to suddenly start falling apart. And, and I, and I was in really good health. Uh, when I was 39, I had lost a bunch of weight and, uh, I was active. I was doing yoga three times to four times a week and getting out and hiking and feeling great. [00:08:43] And I thought, oh, my forties will be easy, but they were right. My body started falling apart. Have fun, Christina? [00:08:52] Christina: I mean, look, I never turning 30, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. [00:08:56] Brett: Yeah, you’re [00:08:56] safe. [00:08:56] Jeff: man. You know, I wish I had made that decision and I think it’s too late.[00:09:00] [00:09:00] Brett: You don’t have to turn 30, but I hate to say it. Your body will. We’ll see, we’ll [00:09:08] see. [00:09:08] Christina: that, that’s what you think. in mind. The only reason my body is the size that it is, is because I had to take human growth hormones. So like, there’s, there’s a, there’s a, there’s a lot of, of delayed this tear that I’m just hoping to milk first, as long as possible. [00:09:25] Jeff: That’s just science. [00:09:26] Brett: All right. So this, this story I’m about to tell you is going to lead into my good news at work for the week. [00:09:34] Jeff: Okay. [00:09:35] Brett: About once a year, I get a bug in, I shaved my face clean, like down to the skin and I immediately hate it, especially when I’m heavy. Uh, when, when I have extra weight on me being bare faced, I look, you can like see all of my little fat dimples and everything. [00:09:57] Jeff: Right. [00:09:58] Brett: I didn’t [00:10:00] consider when I got this bug last week, that the next day I was going to be going for a passport picture. you know, the pictures that lasts [00:10:09] for 10 years? Um, and, uh, and, and I did it, I did it. I now have, uh, uh, fat Dentsply bare faced. Uh, cherubic looking, uh, passport photo, but the reason I got a passport photo is because Oracle said, Hey, do you want to go to, I think it’s pronounced Qube con like the Kubernetes conference in Valencia, Spain. [00:10:39] And I said, sure, would love to travel to Europe. And then I Googled Valencia Spain, and, oh my God. It is so gorgeous. I cannot wait. I hope this trip goes through. [00:10:53] Christina: That’s awesome. I haven’t been to Valencia. I’ve been disbanded for them, but I’ve never been to a Palencia, but I’m very, very [00:11:00] excited for you. This is great. And coupon is a great event. [00:11:03] Brett: Yeah. I have a lot to learn. Kubernetes for a minute, represent Oracle. I need to not only learn about Oracle’s Kubernetes offerings. I have a lot to understand about their general. Like I have to man, a booth and I have to talk about Oracle’s cloud offerings. [00:11:22] Christina: Look, no, one’s going to be expecting you to really say anything about Oracle’s cloud offerings, because everyone’s just surprised that there is one. [00:11:30] Jeff: Oh man. It’s the CA it’s the, it’s the developer advocate war right in front of me. Oh, let me put on my ref shirt. Hold on. [00:11:37] Christina: No, I I’m. I’m teasing you. I mean, I I’m I’m I’m completely kidding, but no, you’ll be great. [00:11:44] But also like half the time, uh, at booths, I have no idea what I’m talking about. I’m just completely pulling shit out of my ass. So you’ll be completely. [00:11:55] Brett: Th they would, they would pay to fly me to a [00:12:00] gorgeous city in Spain to stand at a booth and not know what I’m talking about [00:12:05] Jeff: 100%. [00:12:06] Brett: Huh? [00:12:07] Jeff: Yep. That sounds about right [00:12:09] Brett: on the ground boots on the [00:12:10] Jeff: bodies and the [00:12:10] Christina: bodies in the ground. They also want somebody who like people will be, who can at least understand some of what the people at the, at the booth are saying to them. Um, and there will be language barriers, which also adds a whole fun dynamic to it. [00:12:22] Brett: Mm. [00:12:23] Christina: um, I, um, I just, uh, I think you will be fine because you’re a smart guy. [00:12:29] You will get up on what you need to get up on and never be afraid of being like, you know what, I’m not sure about that. Let me get your email. I will get back to [00:12:40] Brett: We do [00:12:41] Christina: that, [00:12:41] Brett: Spaniard on the team that, [00:12:43] will be present. [00:12:44] Christina: which is wonderful. But, but the thing is, is that a lot of times that’s something like coupon, you will more than likely have people from more than just like who speak more than just Spanish. You’ll have a lot of Europeans. [00:12:54] Brett: Yeah, [00:12:55] Christina: So, so it’s one of those things where, um, uh, there can be, [00:13:00] and I just say this from experience, like there can be lots of language barriers and, um, you feel like, or at least I feel like such an asshole American I’m like, I only speak English and I’m expecting everyone else to have English skills, which most of them do because the rest of the world is better than us. [00:13:16] And, uh, you know, [00:13:18] frankly like, [00:13:19] Jeff: uh, [00:13:20] Brett: search serves as kind of like, the unofficial, uh, [00:13:23] like universal language [00:13:25] Jeff: it does [00:13:26] Brett: of, Europe. [00:13:27] Christina: it well. Yeah. [00:13:28] Jeff: and, [00:13:28] and, and [00:13:29] Brett: speak a second language, it’s often English. [00:13:32] Christina: I mean, and th this is true for most of the world, unfortunately, like we are so imperialistic in that regard, like we have, it’s such a small percentage of the population, like lives in native English, speaking things. And that is, uh, you know what, I think it is the second largest language. [00:13:48] Um, and. There are very few places where you can go where you cannot find at least some way to do it. Although Google translate is your friend. It’s very good. Uh, you’ll have a [00:14:00] native Spaniard there. Uh, you’ll meet a lot of cool people and, um, you will learn enough to be able to bullshit with, with, I guarantee you that. [00:14:06] Brett: Didn’t they add some kind of, uh, spoken translator to Siri recently. [00:14:11] Christina: Yeah, but I mean, Siri’s terrible. [00:14:14] Brett: Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. [00:14:15] Christina: So you Google, Google translate 100%. Like don’t even fuck with any of the apple stuff. Like I don’t, I don’t care how much they promise how good it will be. That will be this it’ll be like using apple maps. You will wind up in a ditch which has happened. [00:14:28] Brett: That’s not fair. I use apple maps all the time and I think it’s great. [00:14:32] Jeff: Ditch, uh, you know what, I’m on this English tip. Like I, I, part of, one of the things I do for work is like a program evaluation essentially, but it’s like immersive. And so I did this evaluation for like three years of this program that was focused on the wellbeing of social entrepreneurs from around the world. [00:14:51] So like, you know, we’ve all known people who start some organization that does some really good thing and it destroys that person. Right. And [00:15:00] so this was kind of looking at like, is there a way to do really intense social entrepreneurial work in different countries in your own country, uh, without turning yourself to ashes in your shoes, right? [00:15:12] Like, is that possible? I part of my work was to interview around like 60 different people multiple times and, and then write up reports and we had to really like go through this interesting learning process of like, yeah, okay, everyone here speaks English, but if I want everybody here to be able to understand this report, I’ve got to use much simpler version of English than I would otherwise use in writing. [00:15:37] And then just a couple of weeks ago on hacker news, something came up about what’s called minimal English. And I saw that. Yeah, it’s so good. And I want to, I want to figure out how to sort of incorporate it into what I’m doing, but it’s just, it literally just focuses on this idea of, you know, universal, um, English, what is the minimal English and then, and then breaks it down by sort of areas [00:16:00] of interest. [00:16:00] What are the common words you can use? What are the words, you know, Fantastic, because like you said, Christina, like it it’s at least one way to be less of an asshole. American English speaker is to be like, okay, I humbly recognize that the rest of the world has done what I haven’t and mastered one or more, uh, other languages. [00:16:19] Right. And now I am going to meet them more than halfway and be sure that I’m thinking about how I communicate, not just taking advantage of the fact that I’m a native English speaker. Right. [00:16:30] Christina: Anyway. Yeah, no, no. I love that. Thank you for bringing that up because I’d read that a couple of weeks ago and I thought it was really good and I had kind of a similar thought. [00:16:37] And when I first saw the thing on hacker news, I, I, because I just saw the headline, I was like, oh, I bet this is just, um, some like bullshit, frankly, people who, who don’t want to, uh, you know, like, like read or write well, and then I looked at it, I’m like, oh no, this is actually really, um, interesting and has a really good concept. [00:16:57] Jeff: So yeah, definitely. [00:16:59] Brett: Hey, [00:17:00] uh, Jeff, how would you like to do your, your inaugural sponsor? Read [00:17:05] Sponsor: SimpliSafe [00:17:05] Jeff: Oh, man. I’d love to do that. Hold on. Let me just stretch really quick. Little bit of voice stuff. Yup. Okay. I’m ready. Uh, okay. What do us news PC magazine and popular science have in common. [00:17:20] They all ranked simply safe home security as the best home security of 2021. In fact, U S news just named simply safe, the best home security of 2022 as well. Simply safe. Protects your whole home around the clock. Every door, window, and room. [00:17:37] It’s backed by the best 24 7 professional monitoring in the business. Ready to dispatch police, firefighters, or MTS to your home with a comprehensive set of sensors and cameras, including the all new wireless outdoor security camera. You always know what’s going on inside and outside of your home. [00:17:57] Simply safe is less than $1 a day, and [00:18:00] you can set it up in around 30 minutes and it’s always simple to use simply safe, protects over a million homes in the United States alone, and yours should be one of them. There’s never a long-term contract. You can even try it for 60 days. [00:18:13] Risk-free to see if you like it. And if you don’t just send it back free of charge, you can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes@simplysafe.com slash over tired. Go today and claim a free indoor security camera. [00:18:27] Plus 20% off with interactive monitoring. Go to simply safe.com/over tired. [00:18:35] That’s S I M P L I S a F e.com/overtired. [00:18:43] You know what? I would, I would use that for [00:18:45] Brett: what? [00:18:45] Jeff: it’s getting warm [00:18:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:18:48] Jeff: in Minneapolis. we’re actually about to have days over 40 degrees in a row, even though it started off as negative to this morning. And [00:19:00] I call our house, the severance council house of doors. [00:19:03] We have so many doors, both inside and out of the house and then internally, and what happens every summer. Cause we have a big yard and we spend a lot of time out there just doing whatever is people come and go through every single door in the severance council house. So doors. And then what happens, invariably is you get all snuggled up in bed, you’re ready to fall asleep and, and you or your partner, my partner says is the back door locked and you’re like off and you walk downstairs and check and find out that it was. [00:19:39] But then you realize in the morning that the sliding glass door was not locked. Right? So anyway, I really need something that can just be like, Hey, you’re good, everything’s closed and locked. That’s what I would, that’s what I would use [00:19:50] Christina: it for. Ooh, I liked that. I liked that. And I also liked the severance console house of doors. [00:19:56] That’s good, but I could also imagine it can be like, okay, that could be really [00:20:00] frustrating if you have all those doors and you’re like, all right, which one’s locked, which one’s unlocked. [00:20:03] Jeff: Yes. It’s actually the worst. And to any robbers out there, if you come to my house and try a door and it’s locked, don’t stop there. [00:20:12] Just keep going, work your way around the house. You’re going to find a way in [00:20:15] Brett: There’s a lot of options, many, [00:20:18] Jeff: it is the house of [00:20:18] Christina: doors. [00:20:23] Let’s Talk Mac [00:20:23] Brett: Um, apple had a, an event of something less. [00:20:27] Jeff: Yeah. [00:20:28] Yeah. [00:20:29] Brett: I, actually missed it I had, I had every intention of watching the event live then around 1130, I decided to go to the co-op completely forgetting that the event was even coming up. I got home at 1230 and I, it had just, it had slipped my mind. [00:20:49] And I didn’t think about it until about two that day. And this is uh, central time. So, uh, noon would have been when it aired my time. [00:21:00] Oh well, but I, I jumped on and all of the blogs were quick to tell me everything that I missed and [00:21:06] Christina: Right, You didn’t have to like, I mean, well, okay. So interested from user’s perspective. I did watch it live, but there have been, think since the whole pandemic and since you know, all these things are clearly prerecorded, virtual things. There’s less. [00:21:21] Brett: that way. [00:21:22] Christina: It’s better that way, but there’s also a sense where you’re like, okay, I don’t have to watch this live. [00:21:27] Like if I know that somebody is his record has prerecorded it, like, and, and I, and that’s obviously how they do it. Cause it’s how the production things work. And I’m sure apple loves that because they can make it absolutely perfect and, and whatnot. Um, and I’ve done enough of them, uh, now for Microsoft, uh, on our end to, to know, like we we’ve done a lot of things live, but we’ve done a lot of things, prerecorded that then air at a certain time. [00:21:52] Like, I, I don’t know. I, I feel like when I know that the impetus for me to be like, yep, I have to be gluten [00:22:00] at exactly this time. It’s like, just, it’s not there yet. [00:22:04] Jeff: Yeah, same, but for me it stopped prior to the prerecorded things. I was just really, really tired of being like, is this really my, my family? [00:22:15] Like, it’s just like, it’s like these guys and these, I mean, they’re just so corny and, you know, it’s like, just give me the thing. And, and then I was like, well, wait, I don’t have to be here. Cause I was, I would totally organize my day around that shit. You know, like I’d have all the, you know, like Twitter feeds up and whatever and all excited. [00:22:33] And then there’s just a point where I’m like, think I might be carrying too much and in the wrong ways. [00:22:40] Brett: So there, the, the announcement. Oh, so like, all I wanted was a more powerful Mac mini. Like if You would ask me, what is your one dream that apple could or announced? I would have said a more powerful Mac mini one that can handle more than 16 gigs of Ram [00:22:58] Jeff: Hmm. [00:22:58] Brett: with, maybe with a [00:23:00] max chip. And when I saw the max studio announcement, I immediately started specking out my next computer. [00:23:09] I’m I’m super excited. Um, it’s, it’s a, it’s a pro mini. [00:23:14] Jeff: It is, it [00:23:15] Christina: is, it was so funny because you were actually the person I thought of, and I was like, okay, who is the target for this? I was like, well, obviously video editors, you know, that’s, that’s the, the core component of people that are going after for this. This is a video editor machine, maybe audio, editors, whatever, um, that, because that the people who will be able to use that workload, um, who are, uh, cause people who would otherwise be able to use this sort of GPU and Ram power in some professional applications. [00:23:38] I, I hate to say this, but this is the truth. Like if they’re doing machine learning work, they are not using max at this [00:23:44] Brett: Right. [00:23:44] Christina: can’t, can’t because the tooling is not there. It maybe it’ll show up there. Most of them are using Linux or windows and people can get at me on that, but I’m right. [00:23:55] Uh, Jeff can attest to [00:23:57] Jeff: that, that one, I was going to make [00:24:00] a similar point, but you made it [00:24:01] Christina: better. Yeah. Um, but, uh, but the other person that the other group I was thinking of, I was like, this is a Bret term store machine. [00:24:09] Brett: Yeah. [00:24:09] Christina: Like this is a complete term drum machine. Like, I don’t know if you would get the ultra, [00:24:13] but [00:24:13] Jeff: the, [00:24:14] Brett: I’m debating that. Like, I don’t think I need 20 cores. [00:24:18] Jeff: I don’t think you do [00:24:19] Brett: I think I’d be fine with, with a max. And I think that maxes out at 64 gigs of Ram, [00:24:25] Christina: Yeah, it does. [00:24:26] I think 64 gigs. That’s what I was thinking. I was like, get 64 gigs and whatever, you know, size SSD you want. I think that’s [00:24:33] your machine. [00:24:34] Brett: learned two terabytes is what I actually need combined with a Synology and external SSDs. I don’t anything more than two terabytes is a waste. So yeah, that actually comes out, I think, around three grand for the machine. [00:24:48] you just mentioned, I can afford the five to six grand. It would cost me to max it out, but I just don’t know if I can justify [00:24:59] Jeff: Right. [00:24:59] Brett: [00:25:00] couple grand that would take. [00:25:02] Christina: Well, because if you’re not going to use it, like in my mind it becomes kind of a thing. Like if you’re not actually going to use it, we, [00:25:08] Brett: do some video editing, but honestly I’ve done video editing on my M one mini and, and for my purposes, I do our. It takes hours to render something. But [00:25:20] Christina: yeah. Well, I mean, the thing is, is that even if you do, um, that, um, They’re so good at this point. Cause like, uh, Jeff, you just got a 16 inch max book and I have the 14 inch max book and we’re going to talk about it. Uh, it is great and it is great and video editing and, and this is basically a max book without a screen. [00:25:39] So I think you’d be great. Like, I don’t think you would need an ultra for the video editing you’re doing, you’re not doing 10 streams of 4k footage rate K footage or whatever the hell they were showing up, which is awesome, but you’re not doing [00:25:51] that. [00:25:51] Brett: just, I needed to hear you say that. [00:25:53] because I didn’t think I did. Uh, but having, having someone, especially someone who already owns a [00:26:00] max and can say, this is all You need. That’s, that’s good to know [00:26:03] Jeff: You know what pleases me and pisses me off is the thing that I find most attractive about having this computer is similar to what I love most about my new Mac book. Is that look at how they put two USB-C or maybe it’s the Moodle ports and a fucking SD card reader facing you [00:26:26] Christina: the front, the front facing shit. [00:26:28] I’m like [00:26:29] Brett: and [00:26:30] Christina: clearly Johnny IPE has left the building. [00:26:31] Brett: there’s bore vulnerable ports on the back. [00:26:34] Jeff: But this is what makes people hate Mac users. Is that like, I’m that excited about that? It does definitely reveal what a sucker I am, but man, I have the, um, the iMac pro the, the last version that they made. Right. And it’s got a lot of good parts, but Jesus Christ, you can’t get to them. [00:26:52] I spent so much time. I’ve contemplated putting a mirror near the backup. [00:26:58] Brett: Yeah, I have to, I, [00:27:00] I, I pass all ports out to a [00:27:02] Jeff: I haven’t no, I have a doc. I don’t pass all too. That’s a good, okay. I don’t do that. Like, I’ll put monitors straight in, um, and things like that. And I’d still, but the SD card reader, which I know a doc, I’m just saying, I paid a lot of money for this computer. [00:27:17] And if I paid that much money for a computer that already has an SD card reader, just put it on the side. At [00:27:22] Christina: least I agree. I agree because I have a 20, 20 iMac and I had a 2017 iMac before that. And I’ve actually knowing my 2017 I’m at, cause it came out right before the iMac pro and it was one of those things where I’d bought it. [00:27:35] And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? One of those things, I was like, I would have bought the iMac pro, um, and, and said, I got it. I have the completely maxed out, like the last Intel Mac, um, like the I nine with the, uh, with 128 gigs of Ram. And, um, I aftermarket did not pay apple prices would not do that. [00:27:55] Um, uh, the, the, you know, highest end graphics card, which. [00:28:00] Little did we know that it would be very, very difficult for anyone to get graphics cards. So that was actually a goodbye. Um, and, and so I’ve loved that machine, but, um, yes. Having to have like fumble around the back and I’ve got it on a, on a visa, um, I got the base of model, so I have it on an arm, which then has a whole other thing. [00:28:21] So I was just like, okay. Yeah. So I, I have a doc, I have, um, um, one of the, uh, Cal Cal digit, um, docs. [00:28:28] Jeff: Yeah. It’s I sh I should have done that. Cause it’s like changing a fucking spark plug. Just like getting your monitor plugged in or whatever. Right, right. It’s just ridiculous. Now you guys said that Johnny ive is gone and now we have these ports, but man, he ain’t all the way gone. [00:28:42] Cause that’s still a kind of a piss-poor offering. I feel like they got room to give us a couple more in there and it’s can still be pretty. [00:28:49] Christina: I mean they do, but like, look beggars can’t be choosers. Yes, we got MagSafe back. We got SD cards. They gave four thunder, four thunderbolts, as you mentioned on the back [00:28:59] [00:29:00] of the studio [00:29:01] Brett: the max for that bus. [00:29:03] Christina: that is in and on the ultra, the front ports are also, uh, [00:29:09] Jeff: but let’s be honest. [00:29:10] Uh it’s beggars who are willing to spend thousands of dollars on a computer. Can’t [00:29:14] Brett: Sure, sure. [00:29:15] Jeff: the same logic [00:29:16] Christina: ring. Correct? You’re correct. You are correct. It’s beggars who are in this position because of their own bullshit. [00:29:24] Brett: Ooh, [00:29:25] Cal did you Cal, did you has a Thunderbolt for dogs? Is that the one you have? [00:29:30] Christina: Um, okay. So I had the three one, and [00:29:32] Brett: Yeah. [00:29:32] Christina: four on order from PNH. And, um, and it actually was recently in stock on Amazon. And I should’ve canceled by BNH order and ordered on Amazon, but this was the difficult thing I got it covered by. So at work, they give us like a certain amount of money a year. [00:29:50] It used to be for health and wellness stuff. So I used to get my apple watch paid for, but they’ve now expanded it. So it can be used for office type of things too. [00:30:00] And for hobbies. So like last year it paid for my microphone and um, this year it paid for, um, I got a mixing board and I got a bunch of Ergotron arms and I got, um, A a, I got that doc, but my fear was, if I cancel, I I’d already got, I’d already expensed it and gotten my refund for it. [00:30:22] And so I didn’t want to go through a thing where like, if they did an audit of some sort and they were like, oh, well you cancel this being a shorter, I am going to have to like submit a refund claim and then have to resubmit like a new claim that I bought it from Amazon. You see what I’m saying? And I think that the, the likelihood of anybody actually auditing that is probably non-existent, but for things like that, I didn’t want to fuck around. [00:30:50] So I will have that one, but instead I have, and they, and I should, I should disclose this. Um, um, Cal digits sent me four years ago. They sent me [00:31:00] the Thunderbolt three dock, um, in exchange for being, for being able to use like tweets that I used on their webpage, which I don’t even think they ever used. Um, [00:31:09] Brett: a hell of a deal. [00:31:10] Christina: I, if I liked it, I love that thing [00:31:13] Brett: Yeah, that’s what I have. It’s my favorite doc. [00:31:16] Christina: And, and so I, I very happily spent the money on the, on the Thunderbolt for one because, um, and, and, and I probably could’ve finagled a similar situation as I got with a three, but I, [00:31:30] but, but [00:31:30] Brett: you in tweets. [00:31:32] Christina: honestly, um, I, I probably could have done that. Exactly. I probably could have done that, but, uh, and I just say, this is the, not a sponsor. [00:31:40] Maybe we can get them as a sponsor. Um, since all three of us like them, um, that would actually be cool, but this was a situation where I was like, actually, no, I just want to give you my money because it’s been that good of a product. [00:31:55] Brett: Have you [00:31:55] Jeff: That’s awesome. [00:31:56] Brett: Mac studio page on apple.com [00:31:59] Jeff: [00:32:00] Yes, [00:32:00] Brett: the like with the squirrel? It’s amazing. Um, [00:32:04] Jeff: it’s really good. [00:32:05] Brett: I was like, how do I see the back of this? then I just started scrolling and it spun around and then it zoomed into it. And then there were splashes and colors and it, yeah. [00:32:16] Jeff: I just ended up on the cosmetics website. [00:32:19] Brett: What, [00:32:20] Jeff: No, no, no. Max studio by micro dental laboratory. Well, okay. [00:32:25] Christina: Well, okay. We’ll we’ll, we’ll the funny, the funny thing is, is when they said Mac studio, I was like, okay. Cause I actually use Mac as my makeup brand and I have for, since I was in high school. So, and, and, and the, uh, foundations I use is called studio fixed. [00:32:41] So this is now very funny for me. So like, honestly, I am a little bit surprised now that you mentioned this, had not occurred to me before. There is a real trademark. Complaint that I think Mac cosmetics could have. [00:32:55] Jeff: And I’m about genuinely. And I’m about to drop a link in [00:33:00] the show notes that will show you, uh, just how similar these products are. [00:33:05] Not, it’s really delightful, but we keep talking. It’ll take me a [00:33:09] Christina: minute. Yeah, no, so, I mean, I mean, obviously they’re, they’re completely different, you know, product wise, but like in terms of the name, mark I’m with you, you know what I mean? Like, cause cause Mac studio like, like Mac cosmetics has had that line for, over 20 years guys, cause again, using it in high school. [00:33:28] Uh, and, and, and, and I know I’m always 29. I’m not actually 29. So it’s, it’s been more than it’s been more than two decades. Um, because I’ve been putting it on my face that long I’m color in three, by the way. excellent. Which, which, which shows how pale my skin is, because I think the scale starts. Oh, and it goes to [00:33:49] Jeff: like, oh, his how? [00:33:50] okay. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Well the new Mac studio teeth are amazing. sorry, Brett. I [00:34:00] was trying to go to the Mac studio website and wound up in the land of dental implants. [00:34:05] Brett: By micro dental laboratories. [00:34:10] Jeff: That’s fine. I wonder if they got just generally like a lot more hits over the last [00:34:14] Christina: week. Oh, I bet they did. I bet they did. Everybody’s like, wait, wait. I was actually looking for a computer, but now that you mentioned it, I could use some dental implants, [00:34:24] Jeff: apple. [00:34:26] Christina: You know, I mean, if apple had a dentistry, you know, that it would be like, if I could get, cause I want to get veneers and I could keep the nears from apple, they would be the best veneers they would cost so much money. [00:34:37] Yeah. They would be the perfect shade of white. [00:34:40] Jeff: Some of those, you get some of those real thin Johnny [00:34:42] Christina: ive teeth. Yup. Yup. they be perfect. Right? Like they would be, it would have like, they wouldn’t be an imperfect group is somewhat imperfect. Yeah. They be machine, but they’ve been machine exactly to your teeth. [00:34:54] They be like, um, you know, uh, cause, cause that that’s, the trend is not to [00:35:00] have the fake looking perfect ones, but to have like, it, like them actually capture your real teeth and then, and then do it. And um, I am, I got fitted for it and I was going to do it. And then I didn’t finish my whitening process to get them as white as I’d wanted them to match too. [00:35:14] And then COVID happened. And so, and so I need to go back and, and get, get on the train again. It’s going to be like, like 10 grand, but I’m going to do it. [00:35:24] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:35:24] Brett: Speaking of expensive designer products that help you live well. [00:35:28] Jeff: Oh, perfect segue. [00:35:30] Brett: To be perfectly at ease and comfort and style hunter Douglas can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control systems. So advanced, they can be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. [00:35:46] Perhaps it’s the way the shades diffuse harsh sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room, being able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside. it’s a superior installation that the shades [00:36:00] provide keeping you warmer in winter cooler in summer and lowering utility bills, or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it just looks and feels right? [00:36:11] When you tap into hunter Douglas has power view technology. Your shades can be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light and installation morning, noon, and night. Um, I. I don’t have these yet. I still desperately want them every time I do this for each and every time I look at the products, um, I, I, this is going to happen when, after I get my max studio, it’s going to be time to upgrade my, my window dressings. [00:36:42] So live beautifully with hunter Douglas, enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunter douglas.com/overtired for your free style. Get smarter design guide with fresh takes creative [00:37:00] ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. [00:37:03] hunter douglas.com/overtired for your free design guide [00:37:09] And Now For Something Completely The Same [00:37:09] Brett: goes great with designer teeth and, and fancy Macs. [00:37:14] Christina: Yeah. And so suggest. So you’ve just got a 16 inch max book. Yes. Right. Tell [00:37:19] Jeff: us about it. The most important thing about it is that it’s my first laptop since my early 20 15, 13 inch Mac book. [00:37:29] Christina: Okay. So, so, so you had like the last good. [00:37:33] Jeff: Yeah. And th and that’s why it’s been that long. It’s like, I’ve, I’ve had to get laptops for, you know, colleagues or people that work on my project to use. [00:37:42] And every time I get ’em, I’m like, oh, this is the new Mac book. And I was like, oh, this is, this is terrible. And, and I thought, well, I never have what I like again. And, and primarily, like, what I like is like girth and ports. Like, I don’t, I don’t [00:38:00] need it or want it to be really, really, really skinny. And I totally want to have an SD card reader. [00:38:07] If I’m going to spend all that money on a goddamn laptop, like that’s still a thing I still end up needing them. Um, [00:38:14] Christina: and most people, because you’re recording things from audio sources, you might have like, you know, footage from a camera, like, [00:38:21] Jeff: yeah. And I’m like a raspberry PI nerd. So I’m flashing Linux onto some micro SD cards and stuff like that, you know? [00:38:28] Um, and, and the HTMI port and all that stuff. The funny thing is, even though I knew this was not the case, and I haven’t even talked about the fact that it’s so damn powerful. Right. But like, even though I knew it wasn’t the case that there was a disc drive in there. It has two slots on the bottom that looked like they could be Johnny ive just drives. [00:38:47] And I was like, no way. Um, so anyway, like I, I love the form factor so much. The speakers are amazing. Like I am blown away by the quality. Sound that comes [00:39:00] out of that thing. Um, granted, I, you know, I’m comparing this to 2015, so I don’t really know what’s when it got better, right? [00:39:08] Christina: Well, I have, I have the 14 inch, not the 16 inch and I, and the 16 inch is definitely better, but everybody, every review I read commented, um, on how good the speakers were. [00:39:16] And this includes people who just reviewed laptops for a living. So I think that, that even though I think the last 16 inch MacBook, like the one that Brett has, I think that was good, but I think this is even better. [00:39:28] Jeff: man. I mean, I’m truly blown away. I actually throw it up that whole laptop up on my treadmill I. [00:39:34] Go straight off the audio of the laptop. No problem. Even for like a TV show with dialogue and whatever else. Uh, and then just like the display. It’s huge. I love it. It’s so, so huge. Um, and that’s just the outsides, but honestly, like as much as I, I love the insides and the fact that this gave me an excuse to do a totally justified clean install rather than one that I can’t fully justify, [00:40:00] except for mental health reasons. [00:40:01] Um, it is. It is just a pleasure to handle. And I feel a little silly about that because I recognize that I just spent a lot of money have a computer whose like strengths I’m describing as it’s big and heavy and has ports. And that is what it’s like to be a Mac person. It is. What about you? What about you? [00:40:24] Yeah, [00:40:24] Christina: no, I’ve had the similar experience where I’d been rocking. Um, I mean, I have my iMac, which I love, but for, you know, my laptop purposes, which, which was like my main work machine and, and stuff like that, it was a 20 17, 13 inch. And. I tried with that thing, you know, but I missed my, my 20 13, 15 inch a lot because the same things, you mentioned, ports and HTMI and things like that. [00:40:51] Like when I used to travel, um, back when travel was a thing, it was always one of those things. I had to travel with a number of different adapters to [00:41:00] use with different projection systems, because the display port, um, stuff, mini display port, even if the projector has it, sometimes it’s finicky and sometimes doesn’t work. [00:41:11] So I would have to use, like, I would have to have multiple USBC output things like one that would have like an HTMI one that would have a display port, one that would have, you know, even BGA if I needed it. So having that HTMI is huge. And actually ironically, even in our studio, um, at Microsoft, where I go in, if I’m trying to connect, um, a monitor to an. [00:41:31] Studio, um, uh, display, um, they have an adapter on a USB. They have an adapter basically that is like a USBC adapter that they’ve got on the end of one cable. And for whatever reason, whenever I plug in the it into a USBC port on my Mac, it doesn’t quite work, but the HTMI cable works perfectly. So there’s yeah, exactly. [00:41:53] There’s just because Apple’s always done weird things with their, I think what it is is that they demand [00:42:00] like exacting standards on the display stuff that it connects to, which I guess is technically correct, but most other people will allow a little more wiggle room in the spec, which I think is frankly probably a better news. [00:42:13] So I know that that’s a silly thing. Yeah, having that port there is huge. Right? Um, it’s so fast. It’s silent. The battery life is really good. It’s so quiet. Yeah. Now all of us are now on, in one machines, but we’re also on Intel machines. Yeah. Yeah. [00:42:30] Jeff: All of us. [00:42:31] Brett: I’ve a quick, I have a [00:42:32] Jeff: It’s like having two houses in Minecraft. Sorry. [00:42:35] Brett: um, on your, on your max books, how many [00:42:39] Jeff: Okay. [00:42:39] Brett: how many external displays can, can they support? [00:42:43] Jeff: Oh, I don’t know yet. I assume. [00:42:45] Christina: Is it for, I think it is. [00:42:48] Brett: These, the max studio can support five displays, which is I [00:42:52] Jeff: And a TV. [00:42:53] Brett: on my M one Mac mini it only, only supports one display. [00:43:00] I’m able to run two by using a display port dock through USBC, combined with HTMI. Um, and it works fine, but it’s, uh, the, the idea of having, being able to have multiple displays. [00:43:13] That’s cool. Anyway, we we’re talking about, we’re talking about why we can’t just have M one max. Why, why we can’t have nice things. [00:43:21] Christina: Okay. Here, here we go. Here we go. Um, simultaneously support, spool native, uh, built-in up to, um, up to three external displays with up to six K resolution and one external display with the 4k resolution on the, in one max. So six K screens one 4k screen at the same time. [00:43:39] Brett: That’s so many Ks. [00:43:41] Jeff: Yeah. [00:43:42] Brett: Cool. Cool. Um, yeah, the only reason I still need a, an Intel machine is because of that weird bug in X code and web kit. That means I can’t compile Mart. I can’t compile a working version of mark [00:44:00] using, uh, uh, an M one Mac. I can compile it for M one, put it, it has to be compiled on an Intel chip. [00:44:08] If I could get past that bug, I could let go of my Intel. [00:44:13] Christina: Interesting. Okay. So for me, the holdup, if I’m being real is still in, it’s gotten better, but it’s still not great is, is Docker. Um, so you’re talking about, you know, coupon, that stuff is still not great. Um, Docker does finally have, um, and, and, and I’ve actually been using rancher as opposed to Docker desktop. [00:44:33] Docker’s going through some, some shit right now. Um, uh, they do have arm builds and they do have things that can run in Rosetta, but there are still Docker images that I will find that will not necessarily work because they were not built for, um, you know, a arch and, um, that can sometimes be a problem. [00:44:56] And in virtualization, if you’re using, um, [00:45:00] uh, you know, uh, I think they call it hyper kit, which is like their hypervisor kit. Like, it’s pretty good, but there are some limitations in terms of what stuff you can do, because Rosetta is only working with the compatibility of that only works really on like the Mac side. [00:45:17] So if you’re like running the Linux distro or, or something, or, you know, even like an arm version of windows, which was then having to do some sort of compatibility thing on its own, like, you can’t do that. So. It’s not even so much that I’m like, oh, I need to run windows. Cause it’s not that it’s like, I would like to be able to like do virtualization and run Docker containers and things like that. [00:45:39] And it is better experience to use an Intel machine for that purpose. [00:45:44] Brett: Alright. I like you can’t install any previous versions of most like Python and Ruby, uh, even node, uh, have you have trouble installing older, older versions on an ? [00:45:59] Jeff: Right. [00:45:59] Brett: don’t [00:46:00] compile for the architecture. Uh, so I guess [00:46:03] Jeff: Exactly. [00:46:04] Brett: but I have been able to run all of the previous versions I need for testing using Docker. [00:46:10] Christina: Okay. So, so what’s worked for you. Okay. That’s good. Cause I’ve had some instances it’s been and I, and, and some of it might be fixed, but it’s, you know, it’s one of those things where like, if you run into a breaking thing at one point and, and then, and it, and it’s kind of a pain in the ass. Or I could just use my Intel machine. [00:46:27] That’s what you’re going to do. And I’m not going to like continue to keep so things, my information could be somewhat out of date even in the last couple of months, but, uh, that’s there have been still been some challenges with that case. I think that that’s the, and I, I predicted this I, I not happy to have been right about that, but I predicted when they did the transition, I was like, I think that the most difficult part is going to be some of the lower level dev tools that are edge cases that are for understandable reasons. [00:46:58] Just [00:47:00] not on anybody’s [00:47:01] Brett: Well, it took, it took a while for like all of the Homebrew to, uh, To [00:47:07] Jeff: Yeah. [00:47:08] Brett: up, but by the time, they started developing the new or like updating the architecture for home brew formula is as soon as the, uh, developer tool kit, Mac minis came out by the time they actually actually released the first M one Mac minis. [00:47:27] Uh, most of that had been [00:47:30] Jeff: Yeah. [00:47:31] Brett: most, most of it had been taken care of. You can pretty much anything that’s on Homebrew. can brew install on an M one. Um, [00:47:38] Christina: Yeah, no, they did a great job with that and they got that pretty, um, pretty like fast with that. But, um, but yeah, uh, and that was, that was worked out long before I got my, um, first machine, but, uh, Uh, but yeah, I, uh, but there still been some issues with some other things, I’m sorry. Go on. What, what, what, uh, what are you, so you said [00:48:00] Minecraft, but other things are no, no, [00:48:01] Jeff: no, not Minecraft, but I was saying it’s like having too many houses in Minecraft. [00:48:05] Where do I keep all the like iron? Um, no, for me, it’s so obvious code is still funny for me. Uh, with the M one, although I’ve heard it’s gotten better, but when I first, uh, loaded it up on my Mac mini, um, which was about two months ago, it was just freezing up on me all the time. And when I look at [00:48:25] Christina: the, and you were using the arm build, you’re using like the actual apple Silicon build. [00:48:29] Jeff: So maybe not, I mean, it told me it was running on Rosetta [00:48:34] Christina: and not using the right belt. [00:48:37] Jeff: Okay. So I’m using the wrong build. Well, welcome to basics with Jeffy. [00:48:42] Christina: but this is a problem, right? I mean, cause they do, they do put it on the website, but I think, and I’m actually going to pass that to the co team to see if they can do a better job of figuring out what version you should be downloaded. [00:48:55] And I’m [00:48:56] Jeff: wondering I would have, I would have installed it through home brew. So I wonder [00:49:00] if the, what they have on Homebrew. [00:49:03] Christina: Well, you know, what it might be. I think they offer a universal build and a universal build might not do a great job of determining what you need to do. And so you need to actually get the apple Silicon build. [00:49:12] Oh, that makes [00:49:12] Jeff: me so happy because, um, and thank you. Uh, the office left for me is this really incredible, um, software called max QDA, which is qualitative data analysis software that I use all the time, unfortunately, in my job. And so until that is right. Um, which won’t be till the summer. [00:49:34] Apparently I can’t completely let go of my iMac, which I’d actually like to just sell and, and put against the cost of the laptop I got, but I got to wait. [00:49:44] Brett: Christina. We’ll probably never have a use case for max QDA, but she would appreciate that app. It is intensely cool. [00:49:52] Jeff: It’s [00:49:52] Christina and Jeff: amazing. [00:49:53] Jeff: You basically just dump a bunch of texts into it, you know, usually interviewed transcripts and, and there are all of these ways [00:50:00] in which you can sort of code what’s there and then look across documents. And there’s like a lot of software that does that in the academic world. I’m not an academic. [00:50:08] Um, and I found this particular developer there in Germany to just be like, amazingly user-friendly because I’m on this kick, which I won’t go into now about making qualitative analysis accessible to anybody, which is currently not the case. It’s like, it’s sort of protected in that fake academic way where it’s like, why I don’t under, I don’t understand three of the 15 words you just said, so this obviously isn’t for me, you know, but anyway, right. [00:50:34] But [00:50:36] Christina: that’s in that that’s. [00:50:38] Jeff: Yeah. For the moment. I mean, you know, it can run on, it has, uh, it can run on Rosetta. Right. But like not, well, it’s, it’s just not it’s super buggy. [00:50:48] Got it. [00:50:48] Brett: I haven’t had any, like, it. [00:50:50] has been practically seamless to me stuff that has to use Rosetta. Um, I’ve been really impressed with how well, my M one runs [00:51:00] Intel stuff without me having to even notice. [00:51:03] Christina: Yeah. And then of course there are a couple of apps that just flat out don’t work, like, um, uh, our, our beloved call recorder. [00:51:10] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. every once in a while you open some and you’re like, oh, oh, [00:51:14] Brett: It’s probably stuff that have to get down to like low level audio bridge. [00:51:19] Christina: Yeah, no 100%. And, and, and the, and e-comm has, has said that they will no longer be they will not be bringing it to the, um, in one Mac that cause the architecture and things are too different. They’ve already had to do enough, like kind of work arounds to even get the Intel version, to continue to work with the various versions of Skype. [00:51:36] Like it’s just, it’s become, I think [00:51:38] they can get too much technical debt [00:51:40] Brett: them. Yeah. [00:51:42] Christina: as, and, and their, their big focus has been on their e-comm live product, which is kind of like a Mac version of OBS. [00:51:48] Brett: Yeah. [00:51:49] Christina: and I, I don’t blame them. That would be, I would think a much better business model. That’s also something they sell monthly. [00:51:57] Although I have a grandfathered, uh, [00:52:00] professional license, but that is like a, uh, a monthly subscription that they sell versus. I, I can’t fault them. I paid for call recorder in 2007. I want to say it lasted forever. And I got so much use out of it. Like I, [00:52:16] Brett: Does [00:52:16] Christina: yeah. [00:52:17] Brett: actually work for e-comm now? Or does he just love e-comm live? [00:52:21] Jeff: I think he works for them now. [00:52:22] Brett: Okay. Yeah. With the amount he pimps it, he really should be getting paid. [00:52:27] Christina: Yeah. I I’m, I’m pretty, I’m pretty positive like that, that is that he does work for them now, which is great. Um, I’m glad to have somebody like him working for them, but yeah, that that’s, that’s like one of the only ones where I was like saying farewell, like in a deep way, because not that you can’t use other tools and obviously, um, audio hijack is awesome. [00:52:47] But in terms of, of TKI teaching people like having just a utility, you could point someone towards to be able to record both sides of their Skype conversation. There’s been nothing better than, than calling. [00:52:59] Brett: No, [00:53:00] it’s perfect. And it can export split tracks, right. From, uh, it’s built in tools and everything. Yeah, for sure. Okay. We have about, uh, a few minutes left. Let’s hear about, uh, mint mobile. Uh, I’m going to turn it over to Christina and then we can debate our closing topic is going to be [00:53:20] Jeff: All right. And then have that be the end. It just doesn’t [00:53:24] debate. [00:53:24] Brett: debate. [00:53:25] Sponsor: Mint Mobile [00:53:25] Christina: All right. If saving more and spending less is one of your top goals for 2022. Well, why are you still paying insane amounts of money every month for wireless switching to mint, mobile is the easiest way to save this year. And as the first company to sell premium wireless service online, only Mitt mobile, lets you maximize your savings with plans starting at just $15 a month. [00:53:47] And Brett, I know that you’ve been really happy about your, your, your switch to mobile, right? [00:53:52] Brett: I added up my savings and I’m saving almost a thousand dollars this year, just on my wireless bill. Um, so that [00:54:00] money will absolutely be going towards a Mac studio, which is just a way better investment than, than wireless. I don’t, I don’t even barely use. [00:54:10] Christina: That’s so great. That’s awesome. Uh, and, uh, if you like bread or are looking to save up to like a thousand dollars this year, if you want to buy a Mac studio with, with your savings, um, memorable offers premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month, and they do this by going online only and eliminating the traditional costs of retail. [00:54:29] And so. The mobile then passes those savings onto you and all plans come with unlimited talk and text and high-speed data that are delivered on the nation’s largest 5g network. can use your own phone with aim at mobile plan, which is great. So you can bring your own phone you can keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. [00:54:48] within mobile, you can choose the amount of monthly data that’s right for you. And then you can stop paying for that data that you never use, which is great. Cause like that’s so frustrating. A lot of times like, ah, well, I, I really only need [00:55:00] this much, but I’m paying for way more and, and you don’t have to do that here. [00:55:04] So to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month and get the plan shipped to your door for free, go to mint, mobile.com/overtired that’s Mitt mobile.com/overtired. Cut your wireless bill 15 bucks a month@momobile.com slash. [00:55:23] Tip Your Developers, and Try The Steak [00:55:23] Brett: All right. So we could, we could quickly revisit the PGS. Although I feel like that’s, that’s a pretty long conversation, uh, where that path led me. [00:55:33] Jeff: Okay. [00:55:34] Brett: like I, I really, I [00:55:36] Christina: Well, let’s say that. Let’s say that because, because you came, you came with some good revolution relations update for, for people who don’t follow the Twitter feed, which is completely fair. Brett did give the BGS a try. [00:55:47] Jeff: He, [00:55:47] Brett: fucking watched Saturday night fever to try to understand we’ll get into this. We’ll talk. [00:55:53] Christina: okay. So he, you really, really tried. Wow. That is like you went all out huge a for effort. Um, [00:56:00] uh, you know, Saturday night fever was based. I think it was a, was it a rolling stone or a village voice article? It was one of those anyway. Um, good try on that. So we can say that for, for, for, for a future episode and I’m sorry, you didn’t like them though. [00:56:14] That that was, that was the end result. Was he, he tried very hard, but still hastes brothers give. [00:56:20] Brett: Um, but I did like Jeff’s, I feel like Jeff’s a gratitude practice for the next week would be a good closing topic. [00:56:29] Jeff: Yeah, I like this. Okay. And I may want to ask some questions more in depth next week, but here’s, here’s what I’m going to here’s I’m going to set it up. I am, I, I want to, you know, I’m, I’m putting all this software on a, my new Mac and I’m revisiting, uh, apps that I haven’t spent time with in awhile. [00:56:47] Scrivener is a great example. Um, and I’m just feeling so grateful to developers and who make my life better. And who seemed to anticipate my needs in a way that seems [00:57:00] bizarre, or maybe my needs are just very common. Um, and I want to spend the week thanking developers and, and I’m curious to hear from both of you about the best ways like to thank a developer and I’m especially interested in this sort of divide between like, you know, Indian and corporate, like vs code, you know, Thank the people who do, you know, get integration or, or wrote that right. [00:57:24] In vs code as an example. Right. Uh, and that’s a little less straight forward to me than thinking like Bret Turkstra. Right. So, anyway, I’m curious to get your thoughts on the best way for me to go about, uh, thanking developers over the next week and I’ll report back next week, [00:57:41] Brett: Yeah. Like, I don’t know how you would think like, uh, major corporate, creators of applications, but those things like the get integration, there’s probably, uh, if, especially if it’s an extension, there’s probably an individual developer you can find [00:57:58] Jeff: 100% [00:57:59] Christina: [00:58:00] and there, and, and, and there’s more than likely even, even a log. Um, if you were to look like in the release notes, sometimes it would show what people would be there. Um, but, um, I mean, I, I can’t speak for all corporate stuff. I can say, I know like, Budding the act code team know, or if you see people who are, if you look through the Elisa and you see people who are doing that stuff, if you want to give them a shout out, like they appreciate that. [00:58:24] And they track those things, you know? So substance, so some, so some PM somewhere is going to be looking at that stuff. And we’ll, we’ll more than likely get that to somebody, even if you just wanted to say something on Twitter or, or you might even on previous codes case you might even be able to, to, I don’t know if, if a PR would be the right thing or if they’d have give a feedback, um, a repo or whatever that might be a place to, to just express thanks on GitHub itself. [00:58:50] But. [00:58:51] Brett: indie software, if it’s, it’s something like I published, that’s free, But. [00:58:56] takes donations the obvious way to say thank you is [00:59:00] a $5 donation. but for indie stuff like Scribner that you can get on the Mac app store a five-star review, and you can, you can add a five-star review with every new version that comes out. [00:59:14] Jeff: Oh, interesting. [00:59:15] Brett: done it recently, go add another five star review. It really does help [00:59:20] Jeff: Okay. And, and when I gathered that it’s the five stars that really, really matters. But if you’re, if you’re writing something as well, what, what is the thing to emphasize that makes it a valuable, a five star review? [00:59:34] Brett: Uh, just what it’s done for you. Like a lot of times having a specific use case that, you know, I, I needed this app to do this, and it really came through for me because those are the reviews when someone has like a very particular use case. And it’s not clearly elucidated in the, you know, the more info screen, uh, to find someone else [01:00:00] who has your use case, uh, it can be like, that’s, that’ll be what sells you on it. [01:00:06] So if you have a particular use case that the software really excelled at that makes for a great written review. [01:00:13] Jeff: Hmm. Hmm. And Christina, when you talk about, I mean, when you talk about things being tracked right. Which is kind of what I was assuming or wondering about. Cause it’s not like, I want to say like, thank you, Microsoft for dah, dah, dah. Right. Like I really want, I want to find that person in there that’s like our people, right. [01:00:29] Who’s doing this thing. And I wanna, I wanna, I want to help by saying wonderful work, but not that it matters what, what Jeff [01:00:36] Christina: says. Right. Okay. And to make them feel good to know that. Yeah. So, so like sometimes like the, the best thing I say would usually be like, if the, if the program itself has like a Twitter handle, so, and coats cases, it’s at code. [01:00:48] Um, and I’m actually gonna look as soon as we get off this, I’m going to see if I can figure out who’s been responsible for. Um, the, the get integration. And, and are you talking about the, the, uh, the, uh, the pull [01:01:00] request extension? Are you talking about the actual just version control integration? [01:01:03] Jeff: I just like, it comes naturally in it. [01:01:06] I didn’t have to activate it, you know, and it was just, [01:01:08] Christina: it’s beautiful. Yeah. So, so that might be, I’m not even sure, but that’s the sort of thing where, um, sometimes what you can also do, like, uh, like you can find people who are the bosses on that stuff, and sometimes say like, whoever, you know, your team responsible for this, I really appreciate it. [01:01:25] And they might see it. [01:01:26] Jeff: If you had to guess to mate, um, something like vs code, how many bosses, uh, have vs code in their portfolio? [01:01:42] Five or six, five or six. Okay. [01:01:44] Christina: But I can bet Chris, Chris Davis, Amanda silver, uh, are going to be the two big people. I’ll get you a list. I happen to know just for this one, cause I know, I know that this team, um, but, um, uh, but it, it depends, uh, there, there are a number of different people who do it. I [01:02:00] think ultimately it goes up to, to, to someone else. [01:02:02] But, um, I can, again, this is one of the reasons why for a project like that, I know they track things. So if you mentioned, I just want to, you know, kudos unit to the ad code team for, for this people will see it, uh, for certain things like for instance, like windows terminal, uh, as an example, I know that team fairly well. [01:02:21] And you can see, because again, they do everything on open source. You can see a lot of the people who are doing a lot of the commits and, and the PMs who were doing that stuff. So you can find things more easily for some corporate stuff it’s harder, right? Like, I wouldn’t know where to start for the office team. [01:02:35] Right. But I, I. Probably again, like start with the handle. Um, [01:02:41] Jeff: one thing though, whoever’s deep in the company, still running the paperclip guy. I want to just say how see you, [01:02:46] Christina: we see you. Well, look, look, they, when I first joined Microsoft, they had like almost a moratorium on even mentioning clippies name. [01:02:53] Like they were very anti anything bringing up Clippy. And I would like to take a small role [01:03:00] in this. It, it was other people too, to be very clear, it was not me. Um, but I did play a small role in it, I think. And like basically kind of forcing the, the corporate marketing machine to recognize no, actually this nostalgia is good. [01:03:15] You should embrace it. Like people will actually love exactly people love and miss Clippy. Um, uh, and, and one of the things like people don’t know, like internally. Uh, cause it doesn’t always come across, uh, with the corporate side, although they’ve been doing a better job is the company has a decent sense of humor about itself. [01:03:35] Like in the, in the, uh, there’s a library on campus and they have like a hall of fame, you know, like famous products and things that they show off. And they also have like, um, a shelf of shame. They have like a wall of shame of like failed stuff. So they have like the unreleased version of Microsoft, Bob too. [01:03:52] And like the, the, the kin phones and like some other stuff that just was like complete failures. And I don’t know, I, [01:04:00] I can’t like, I totally can’t see apple having like Newtons and Pippins on display, you know? So I, so, so there is like a certain amount of, of, of whimsy for that, but I just had an idea and I went through this by both of you. [01:04:13] I love this so much that you’re wanting to show this gratitude. What if we all make a list in addition to thinking with five star reviews or on Twitter or making donations, however else we want to do it? What if we can make a list of stuff we’re grateful for? And next week, all three of us take turns and we share, and just give our own shout outs on this podcast, to the apps that that really help [01:04:32] Jeff: us. [01:04:32] I love [01:04:33] it. [01:04:33] Brett: be a regular corner. [01:04:35] Jeff: I [01:04:35] love it. [01:04:35] Brett: could limit it. to like two per person per week and we could stretch it. [01:04:39] out. [01:04:41] Jeff: But next week’s going to be straight [01:04:42] Christina: up Thanksgiving. Yeah, exactly. I think last, next week we just do straight up Thanksgiving and then we could make it a regular thing, but yeah. Are you guys into [01:04:48] Jeff: that? [01:04:48] Brett: Yeah. [01:04:49] Jeff: I love it. I love it. And I can share whatever I learned from trying to get my gratitude into the right places. [01:04:54] Yes. [01:04:55] Brett: Perfect. [01:04:56] Jeff: Awesome. [01:04:57] Brett: Awesome. thanks you guys. [01:05:00] [01:05:00] Jeff: Yeah. Yeah. [01:05:01] Brett: I [01:05:02] Jeff: Yeah. [01:05:02] Brett: to tell you all about my discoveries, my revelations, as I tried to figure out the fuck is wrong with me, that I can’t like the BG, the BGS. I feel like it could, it’ll be, it’ll be a good portion of the episode, but it’ll be much more uplifting than my last attempt to convince everyone that the BGS were not a good band. [01:05:23] Jeff: Alright. Alright. Alright. I look forward to it. [01:05:27] Brett: All right. Hey, you guys get some sleep. [01:05:29] Jeff: Yeah. You get some sleep. Get some sleep. See ya.

Jeff officially joins the Overtired team and immediately launches into a debate on the validity of the Bee Gees as a band. Also, Young Earth Creationism, Satanic Panic, and coming to terms with Sammy Hagar. Sponsor Truebill keeps track of your subscriptions and makes cancelling them a snap. Start cancelling your unused subscriptions at truebill.com/overtired. It could save you THOUSANDS a year. Raycon earbuds sound great and will stay in your ears no. matter. what. At half the price of the competition, these are a great addition to your workout, your dog walks, and all your listening on the go. Overtired listeners can get 15% off their Raycon order at buyraycon.com/overtired. Show Links Bee Gees covers Fiest – Inside and Out Perfunctory Birthday Playlist Young Earth Creationism Religion for Atheists BADD Sammy Hagar Nerf Herder “Van Halen” Double Nickels on the Dime Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 276 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey, Hey, Hey there listeners, um, I’m Brett Terpstra. You’re listening to overtired. I’m here with Christina Warren as always, but special announcement. You guys remember Jeff Severns Gunzel from movies such as the last three episodes. We have decided to make Jeff a permanent member of the over-tired crew. [00:00:28] It is now it is now an overtired throttle, which I mean, it kind of, so like the, the theme song goes tired. So tired over-tired, which is three. Like by the time you get to oversight, it’s it’s three of us. And like, it was always meant to be, this was meant to happen. So welcome, Jeff. [00:00:47] Jeff: Thank you. I’m honored. I’ve had so much fun talking with you all, and it’s been like a nice, a nice sort of, um, change in the, the rhythm of my, of my weeks. [00:00:56] Brett: would you, would you say therapeutic because that’s what we’re [00:01:00] going. [00:01:00] Jeff: No, it has been Therapedic. I mean, the first, the last episode, like I was in a bad space that week and, and that conversation really just kind of jolted me out of it. And the similar thing happened the next time. So I find that it’s I find that [00:01:14] Brett: when I contacted Jeff to say, Hey, this thing just happened and I lost two and a half hours of our audio. And I basically wasted your weekend. Jap was like, oh, cool, redo. I need a redo. He was excited. [00:01:31] Christina: me that honestly, I was going to say that was the thing that made me think. I was like, oh, he’s one of us, because I was like, I mean, I, I said, okay, well we’ll, we’ll do it again. But in my mind, I’m like, there’s no way Jeff is going to want to come back after. [00:01:46] Jeff: No, it wasn’t a waste at all. [00:01:47] It’s like Kevin, a good dinner party. And then being like, oh man, we forgot to record it. Can we do another one? It’s like, [00:01:52] Brett: You record your dinner party. [00:01:54] Jeff: I do have a dinner [00:01:56] Brett: Remind me not to go to Jeff’s dinner parties. [00:02:00] Oh my God. I haven’t. [00:02:01] Jeff: consensual. [00:02:02] Brett: have embarrassed myself so many times at dinner parties. Those never come out with me feeling good about [00:02:08] Jeff: Oh, I know it was my fear about doing a podcast like this. It’s just like, wait a minute. So that means it’s like a dinner party every week and those don’t always end well for me. [00:02:19] Brett: So, Christina, how’s your mental health? [00:02:21] Christina: Um, and that’s too bad. Um, I, um, it’s been an interesting week and, um, I don’t know, my, my, my ADHD is feeling kind of off the charts, but other than that, my mental health is pretty good. [00:02:35] Jeff: How about you? [00:02:36] Brett: I, uh, I am clearly depressed even though I’ve actually been functioning at what I consider to be a pretty normal level. I am currently convinced that Victor and Aaron hate me. Like they hate me. And I think even you and Jeff, uh, are making fun of me. And that is [00:02:56] Jeff: we are well, yeah, but not like on the podcast, [00:02:59] Brett: [00:03:00] That is a clear, it is a clear sign of depression for me when I feel like the world is out to get me and everybody hates me and, and it gets dark. [00:03:10] So I’m, I guess I’m, I’m depressed. I’m looking forward to, I’m almost to the point where I can start my Vyvanse again. Uh, get back on my ADHD stimulant. I’ve been treating my ADHD with lion’s mane and saffron, which is not terribly effective. It’s not great. Um, I think that saffron and lion’s mane are great additions to stimulants, but they do not replace stimulants. [00:03:42] Jeff: Uh, [00:03:43] Christina: no, because I’m going to be controversial here and you’re going to definitely disagree with me, but a large part of, of like, um, homeopathy or whatever [00:03:53] Jeff: is bullshit. [00:03:54] Brett: I, yeah, no, there’s a line though, between homeopathy and like [00:04:00] actual like supplements that have undergone FDA studies, which, which the reason I’m taking saffron is because of a study, not peer reviewed to be clear, not peer reviewed, [00:04:12] Jeff: Okay. So it’s not a real study. [00:04:13] Brett: uh, it is no, a study is real. It’s just not reliable until peer reviewed. [00:04:20] So, and, and there may be more that comes out in the future. And, and basically I’m taking, I’m taking saffron because there was a study that showed promise and what can it hurt to take saffron? Um, but I can absolutely say it is not a replacement for stimulants, for ADHD. [00:04:42] Jeff: Man. [00:04:43] Brett: I don’t disagree with you though. [00:04:44] Homeopathy as, as a pseudoscience, [00:04:48] Jeff: Yeah, [00:04:49] Brett: I do not agree with I, [00:04:51] Jeff: I’m not starting my official first episode going down this [00:04:55] Brett: as Vic, as Victor, as Victor would say, I give no quarter to [00:05:00] homeopathy. I can’t remember what came up. We were talking about someone who like some corporation that, that indirectly, uh, supported the, don’t say gay legislation that just happened. And, and his response was I give no quarter to those people. [00:05:22] Jeff: Thus ruining a perfectly fine led Zepplin. Uh, [00:05:26] Brett: Is that a led Zeppelin song? No [00:05:28] Jeff: No quarter Yeah. [00:05:29] Brett: I’m unfamiliar. My, my, my experience with led Zeppelin is so there was a, I can’t remember what band did kill the BGS. Um, [00:05:42] Jeff: I don’t know. I don’t [00:05:43] Christina: either, but the beaches were a great band. [00:05:46] Brett: No they weren’t. Um, [00:05:48] Jeff: Great [00:05:49] Brett: no, no, no. The BG disco in general, [00:05:53] Jeff: back to [00:05:54] Brett: every, okay. Okay. So back to homeopathy, [00:05:57] Jeff: kidding. I’m just going to the accident. It looks like the name of the band is [00:06:00] the accident. [00:06:00] Brett: um, uh, the accident. Yes. I had that seven inch and then I discovered screeching weasels. I hate led Zepplin. And I actually heard that the only led Zepplin I had heard before that was actually a cover band. I think they were called dead Zeplin, [00:06:19] Jeff: Dread [00:06:19] Brett: dreads, Zeplin that, and like, that was the extent of my exposure to led Zeppelin was through a cover like parody band of [00:06:28] Jeff: Got it. That makes sense. [00:06:30] Brett: So I come from, I come, like I grew up without rock and roll. My first music was my first music was heavy metal, which I had to listen to until my parents would like burn my CDs. And then, and then I got into punk rock and punk rock was very anti, like seventies rock. Like that was a common theme of like anti high seventies rock. [00:06:56] Jeff: except it turns out that mostly the people making the most influential punk [00:07:00] rock were huge seventies [00:07:01] Christina: rock fans. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I was like, most of them were like, they that’s what they grew up on. [00:07:06] Jeff: So once it, once [00:07:07] Brett: songs, like I hate led Zepplin and kill the BGS right now, [00:07:12] Jeff: oh, my God. I could never, I could never get, I could never, I could never, uh, this is not a hill. I’ll die on. Like, even when I was into punk rock, like all the little, like, you must hate this, you must hate this. Like, I couldn’t, I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t get in. Couldn’t get involved in the Vetter versus Cobain thing. [00:07:31] That seemed absurd to me. They’re just two people. And now that I’m old, they were two adolescent just barely out of that adolescents. [00:07:38] Brett: I’m going to call it right now. This episode title is going to be the BJ’s were a great band. I feel like, I feel like that is the title of [00:07:46] Christina: I mean, look, well, look, I’m just saying objectively, if you look at the songwriting of Barry Gibbs, if you look at like them as pop songs, like the, the, the Saturday night fever soundtrack is objective, really fucking great. [00:07:57] Jeff: Oh yeah. [00:07:59] Brett: Oh my God. I can’t, [00:08:00] I can’t disagree more [00:08:02] Jeff: Wow. [00:08:03] Brett: we can agree on, on like the songwriting prowess of Taylor swift, but I cannot agree to disco in any way being good. It just goes against every fiber [00:08:13] Jeff: zoomed out. You’ve just zoomed out to a whole genre though. [00:08:16] Christina: Exactly it, because we could, because the thing is, is that I, they, they get the credit of popularizing disco, but if you really listen to the beaches, like, especially the Saturday night fever album, this is a pop album [00:08:29] Brett: Are you guys going to make me do a deep dive? [00:08:31] Christina: Yeah. Honestly, you. [00:08:32] should listen to the fucking music of the GIP brothers. It’s good shit. Like they’re, they’re Australian. They’re great. [00:08:38] Brett: I hate you. [00:08:39] Jeff: and pretend, pretend you’ve never heard of anything called disco or the BGS or anything that came before after, and just do the, do the Buddhist beginner’s mind with the [00:08:49] Christina: BJ’s also, [00:08:51] Jeff: I mean, [00:08:51] Brett: hate you. You’re going to change my worldview and I hate you. [00:08:54] Christina: even if you just listened to other people, covering their songs, Um, like that, that’s how, you. [00:08:59] know, [00:09:00] similar to Taylor swift. [00:09:00] That’s how, you know how it’s like a really good song when people can, cover in a completely different style. [00:09:05] Jeff: Yeah. There’s a good, [00:09:06] Brett: can agree on this. Like covers covers are. Covers are often better than the original and the fact that someone sees enough value in something to cover it in their own style absolutely gives credence to it. So what are the BGS covers? I should be listening to, [00:09:24] Jeff: Okay. So Jeff [00:09:25] Christina: just mentioned the Feist cover. Um, [00:09:29] Jeff: well, I, well, while you’re, while you’re thinking on that, I want to challenge your premise. Brett. Why, why on earth? Does the fact that someone covered something give credence to, [00:09:37] it? Like there are whole bands where all they do is play covers, like dread Zeplin doesn’t make me like led Zeppelin. [00:09:43] You know what I mean? Like. [00:09:45] Brett: shouldn’t they like [00:09:47] Jeff: No, it wasn’t. No, it’s like okay. Some dudes, you know, who probably live in a really stinky two bedroom apartment together, uh, came up with a funny idea. [00:09:57] Brett: going to, share a Spotify playlist in our [00:10:00] show notes of, [00:10:01] Jeff: love a good cover though. If we can just, if I just want to say that I love a good cover, especially when someone brings themselves to it. [00:10:09] Brett: I have a playlist called it’s it’s titled perfunctory birthday playlist because I’m constantly adding it to it. And [00:10:15] Jeff: Is that a funk? Is it a funk playlist? [00:10:17] Brett: it’s no it’s perfunctory. The, the only time that me and my friends get together every year is for my birthday. And it’s not a selfish thing. I’m just the only person who cares enough. [00:10:32] About their birthday to try to bring people together. So, uh, we have, we have about six friends and we get together for my birthday and I have a playlist that is on in the background and it is 100% covers of songs that people might not like in the original format, but the covers are better than the songs. [00:10:55] And it includes Taylor swift. It includes Nirvana. It includes [00:11:00] Mia like everything that has ever been covered where right. Oh my God. Okay. So I w I will link this playlist. There’s a cover of, um, all I want to do is, [00:11:13] Jeff: oh yeah. [00:11:15] Brett: um, it’s in there and it is, it is better than the original, and it will get stuck in your head even more than the original. And I love Mia, but these are covers. These are covers that compete with the original version. Including the, the much alive maligned and rightfully so Ryan Adams, like it’s in there because those covers were pretty phenomenal. [00:11:42] Christina: No, they are fantastic. Uh, and, and I, and it was, we talked about this six years ago, but it was, it was sort of frustrating in one sense that there was a certain contingent, a lot of people who then became big Taylor swift, like supporters and fans when she did folklore and evermore, which to be clear are fantastic albums, but this was [00:12:00] the same sort of people who, as soon as Ryan Adams covered 1989, they were like, oh wow. [00:12:04] This stuff is really good. And it’s like, okay. Cause I’m with Jeff on this, like, look as like a young. The teenager. I was certainly kind of that pretentious asshole, but where were you? You think you have to hate certain things? Yeah, but, but my purse, but my personal thing has always been, like, I think that I’m probably the epitome of like high, low, like I’m both highbrow and lowbrow. [00:12:27] Like I like really basic sometimes even gaudy shit stuff, like stuff like the, the BGS, who, again, to be clear, I fucking great band, but I also like some of the really like, like the, the good, like the stuff that everyone agrees to is like intellectual and smart and that, that you should like, but I like the mixture of the two [00:12:48] Brett: When I heard, when I heard dreads Zeppelin’s version of stairway, I thought that’s a good hook. Like that’s a, that’s a pretty good song. And I don’t remember what their [00:13:00] lyrics to it were. But when I heard the original, I was like, oh, now I see where they were coming from. And it was good. And cashmere like blew my mind. [00:13:11] When I heard cashmere, I had heard samples of cashmere and other songs. [00:13:17] Jeff: Yeah. [00:13:18] Brett: But when I heard the original, like there was a holy shit moment for me. And as much as I had been preconditioned to hate Zeplin, cashmere and stairway are phenomenal songs. And I cannot argue with that, [00:13:33] Christina: No they are. And, and like that, that music is all like, it’s best like the one, um, I would say that, [00:13:40] other than like prog rock, like the, the, uh, and, and disco, which is pop, like the, the era that I have, like the biggest hole in my music, like history, catalog, whatever is the seventies. Um, [00:13:54] Jeff: I [00:13:54] Brett: weird because the nineties were all about the seventies. [00:13:57] Christina: they were, but I think what it [00:14:00] is, is yes, as, as we, as we’ve discussed, I think the reason for me that it is, is that that was the. [00:14:06] Like my parents, um, my mom has much more eclectic and open-minded tastes than my dad. My dad’s tasted music is, is basically stuck in like the early 1960s. Although he does like rod Stewart and stuff like that, my dad has pretty shitty taste in music to be honest. And, um, like they, so, so the sort of music that they were, then my sister was born in, I at the, uh, independence in 76. [00:14:31] So the music that they were listening to then became kind of like kid music. Um, and then I’m, I’m born, you know, at 83. And so. I, um, you know, which is a completely kind of different era at that point, like MTB and whatnot. So my whole cultural kind of aspect, like I just, I got into music in, in, in the early nineties. [00:14:55] Um, but kind of leading up to that, all of my influences were, you know, Michael Jackson and [00:15:00] Cindy lopper and Madonna and, and I never had any of the seventies stuff. And then when I got into more rock music, yes, it was, it was influenced by the seventies, but I didn’t listen to that stuff. So I have a huge hole in my like personal catalog, um, about anything I would say past like 1969. like, I I really like it. It’s, uh, it’s like there, I have little drips and drabs, but honestly that’s something I probably should rectify because [00:15:28] Jeff: I don’t have it. [00:15:29] Brett: like, I get that as someone who grew up without any rock music, other than Elvis, Elvis was somehow okay. In hers and this, this is going to lead down a dark path. So we should do a sponsor break before things get dark, because I’m about to talk about my childhood. [00:15:47] Christina: yeah. And, and, and why you stormed out of breakfast this morning, right. [00:15:49] Brett: Yes. [00:15:51] Christina: Okay. But speaking of music, and actually this is a great segue. [00:15:54] Brett: God. It is it’s perfect. [00:15:56] Sponsor: Raycon [00:15:56] Christina: you know, if you’re looking, um, to, to try to [00:16:00] like list a good way of listening to music, you obviously need some earbuds. And so a lot of people didn’t even make resolutions this year. [00:16:08] And can you believe that it’s already March and you know what, like we get it, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t still find a way to shake things up, whether it’s by switching up your workout routine or going someplace new, but whatever your challenge, to yourself is this new year. There’s no better way to do it than with a pair of Ray con wireless earbuds in your ears. [00:16:28] So what we did there, if you need to rediscover 1970s music, because you missed out on that whole. Uh, you need a pair of Ray wireless earbuds in your ears and recon wireless earbuds are the best way to bring audio with you because no matter how much you shake things up, literally no matter how much you shake, you know, shake it off, shake it off. Uh, you know, that they will not fall out of your ears and their everyday your buds look, feel and sound better than ever. [00:16:53] There’s also an awareness mode for when you need to listen to your surroundings so that you can take your Ray cons with you, [00:17:00] wherever you go. And you use them in all kinds of situations. There are optimized gel tips for the perfect ear fit, and these earbuds are so comfortable and they will not budge. [00:17:13] Um, I know that, uh, Brett especially has trouble with earbuds falling out. My husband grant, I actually, um, uh, had him, he took the, he stole these from me and he has a really hard time with other ear buds in his ears. And this was the thing that he said, like he loves them because they will not fall out. [00:17:31] Brett: Yeah, well like, uh, so I, I, I have paid for, and I’m not allowed to talk about competitors names, but anyone who listens to this show knows what earbuds I have paid good money for. And I can not find there is no combination of, uh, tips that will make both earbuds stay in my ears because my ears are different size. [00:17:57] Cause I’m some kind of weird mutant, but [00:18:00] these re con earbuds at the everyday, your buds have actually stayed in my ear and I can like, hold on, I’m putting them in. You ready? All right. [00:18:12] Jeff: Shakes? Yes. [00:18:15] Brett: They don’t fall out. If I had [00:18:16] Jeff: you put them in, did you put them in [00:18:18] Brett: I had like bang, pow and like bang power sound effects right now, I would tell you that, like, I can take a punch and these things won’t fall out. [00:18:26] Jeff: Yeah, [00:18:26] Christina: no, uh, GRA grant has been like doing a bunch of stuff like working with his, his guitar and like Has been like running all over the house and stuff. And like, he, he even commented, not even knowing that this was part of the ad read. He was like, yeah, they don’t fall out. So, [00:18:38] Brett: doing the, like the slide across the floor and his socks and his boxers? [00:18:43] Jeff: oh man, I got pulled out of [00:18:44] Brett: cause I can tell you that they will survive that. [00:18:47] Jeff: That’s [00:18:48] Christina: awesome. That’s awesome. Um, Ray cons oper eight hours of playtime and a 32 hour battery life. And they’re priced just right for you. You get quality audio at half the price of other premium audio brands. [00:19:00] So it’s no wonder that Ray con’s everyday ear buds now have over 48,000 five-star reviews. [00:19:06] And right now overtired listeners can get 15% off their re con order@byarraycon.com slash overtired that’s by Ray con.com/overtired. To save 15% on Rakeon’s by Ray con.com/. [00:19:25] Sponsor: TrueBill [00:19:25] Brett: Speaking of sponsors. How’s that for a segue? Do you have any idea how many subscriptions you unknowingly pay for everything? You probably don’t want to know the answers. So why not skip to the part where you use true bill and identify where you can stop spending and start saving? [00:19:41] True. Bill is the new app that helps you identify and stop paying for subscriptions. You don’t need. Or simply forgot about on average, people are saving thousands a year with true bill. See all of your subscriptions in one place. Keep the ones you want. Cancel the ones you don’t right from the app. [00:19:59] And your true bill [00:20:00] concierge is there when you need them to cancel unwanted subscription. So you don’t have to no talking to humans, no difficult conversations. True. Bill has over 2 million users and it’s helped them save over a hundred million dollars. Like Matthew B who’s. In a matter of seconds, I saved $660 for the year on my direct TV. [00:20:20] Bill saved $120 for the year on my Sirius XM bill and saved $840 a year on car insurance. Start canceling your unused subscriptions@truebill.com slash overtired. Go right now. True bill.com/overtired. It could save you thousands a year. That’s true. bill.com/overtired. [00:20:44] Fundamental(ist)s [00:20:44] Brett: Jeff. Did we warn you that this was a Taylor swift podcast? [00:20:48] Jeff: Yeah. I, know from the title, I got no problem with that. I actually I’d actually go [00:20:52] Brett: felt a little guilty. [00:20:54] Jeff: I go so far as to request a multi-disciplinary syllabus. [00:20:57] Christina: Okay. Okay. Which I can [00:21:00] write for you. I, I can give that to you and, and, uh, and we can give you a whole thesis and syllabus of the show, but Taylor swift is definitely a core component of this. [00:21:08] So I accept that. You [00:21:11] Jeff: can have it, you can add attention to the negative. [00:21:13] Brett: That is also, that is also my approach to this. I accept this. [00:21:16] Jeff: I, well, I watched a video of her the other day in jury duty. Did you see this. [00:21:20] Yeah, that was a good bit. Okay. I was like, she seems all right. She’s pretty cool. [00:21:27] Brett: So speaking of speaking of parents and bad taste that wasn’t too, too long, a walk, was it. [00:21:35] Jeff: No, no, that’s good. [00:21:36] Brett: So I have breakfast with my folks every Saturday morning. Uh, we didn’t for, uh, during Omicron, I liked curtailed the breakfast. Uh, our, our community spread was too high and like one in four people in our town were infected and I wasn’t having it. [00:21:55] Uh, we, we curtail breakfast. We recently resumed them. And then [00:22:00] this morning, so we had this list of like banned topics and we don’t talk about it, but if you bring up like the weather, for example, that will lead down. My parents are very fundamentalist Christians and talking about the weather eventually leads to climate change, which leads to huge arguments. [00:22:27] And, and today my mom told me that my, my sister-in-law had taken all of our, our nieces to the Ark encounter. And if you’re not familiar with Ken Ham’s arc encounter, it is, it is a apparent, uh, uh, an, a sensibly life-sized replica of Noah’s arc in which they proclaim that dinosaurs were on the Ark because the earth is only 6,000 years old. [00:22:59] And if [00:23:00] dinosaurs existed, which that’s hard to deny, then they must’ve been on the arc with Noah. And, and like, that is just the beginning of the claims that this makes and I [00:23:13] Jeff: wait, can I just, can I just make sure I fully understand, so essentially, uh, not denying dinosaurs, just saying that, um, if dinosaurs existed, then they were on the arc air go the arc must’ve been way bigger than we thought. So let’s [00:23:27] Brett: Here’s the thing. [00:23:29] Jeff: Kentucky. [00:23:29] Brett: The Bible, the Bible states how big the arc was [00:23:34] Jeff: That’s [00:23:35] Brett: measurements are given. So they have to contort all of this reality to fit into this arc, uh, based on biblical dimensions and, and they, they do their best and they’re okay. There are so many problems with, with their version of the earth that are just like inexplicable, [00:23:59] Jeff: Right. [00:24:00] And [00:24:00] Christina: also the fact that, you know, this has been a text that has been converted in multiple languages and, um, uh, parts of it haven’t been removed and, and other things, but we won’t even get into that [00:24:10] Brett: Like we could debate the veracity of, of NOAA’s of the story of Noah for ever. And, and I do, I watch like almost daily, I watch like YouTube videos that, that speak against the stories that I was raised to believe. And I spent a long time getting to atheism. I spent so many years like D programming myself from funding, fundamentalist, Christianity, but then the, so my, my mom tells me that my sister-in-law took all of my nieces, who I love dearly to the Ark encounter. [00:24:52] And I just buried my head in my hands. I, I just, I didn’t, I knew this was a forbidden topic. [00:25:00] And she, she was like, what’s wrong. I don’t understand what your reaction to this is. And I just, I, all I could manage was like the lies that that exhibit tells are blatant and impossible to prove. And then my dad said the words, you know, what doesn’t have in the evidence evolution at which point I was just, I was so floored. [00:25:32] Like I couldn’t like the realization that my parents, like, this is not news to me. I grew up with this shit, but the realization again, that my parents were young earth, creationist who believe the earth is 6,000 years old. And that the Bible and all of its aspects are, is literal. The English translation of the Bible is literal. [00:25:57] Jeff: And are we talking the king James or what are [00:26:00] we talking? [00:26:00] Brett: Oh, new international is totally fair [00:26:03] Jeff: new. Internationalists got it. [00:26:04] Brett: Totally fair game. Um, the, yeah, the NIV is just a furthering of, of God’s word and they are they’re Bible literalists and the earth is 6,000 years old. And I just, like, I tried, I did my best to like to argue, but I was hyperventilating like this realization that my parents were of these, of this ilk that did not recognize evolution as actual science. [00:26:38] Just, I, I had been there for 45 minutes and I couldn’t, I couldn’t, I just had to leave. It was, I feel a little bit bad that I cut. They made me breakfast and I stormed out, but I just couldn’t. [00:26:53] Jeff: Um, what, what works when, when it works with your parents, [00:27:00] like you have this list of things that you don’t talk about Um, [00:27:03] Brett: work. [00:27:04] Jeff: Uh, huh? [00:27:05] Brett: We talk about health, [00:27:07] Jeff: Yeah. [00:27:08] Brett: my siblings and how they’re doing, and that’s about it. [00:27:13] Jeff: And, and like, how, how aware, how, how present is the list in the room when you’re together? Is it constantly [00:27:21] Brett: Oh, very, you know, you can feel people tip toe around it until they don’t until like, my dad knew as soon as, as soon as he, as he said, you know what? Doesn’t have any evidence evolution. And he like made heart icon. [00:27:37] Christina: He, he was purposely, he, he was making, he was making a point. Yeah. Like I, especially, because I didn’t get to see my parents for, you know, a year and a half. I’ve tried to not talk about politics with them. Um, when I’ve been going home to see the baby and whatnot, my mom and I did get into one fight. [00:27:53] Um, uh, last time I was there in, in, in the car and, and I, and I said something to her that was actually fairly rude. And I, [00:28:00] and I apologize, although I wasn’t wrong where, um, we, we were talking about some sort of issue and I was like, well, look, if you want to completely, you know, forego all, um, you know, like rational thought and science or whatnot, or, or I don’t remember what I said, but it was something that they completely kind of dismissed her. [00:28:17] Uh, perspective at all. Cause I, cause whatever she was talking about is just factually incorrect is just wrong. Um, and this doesn’t get into religious stuff per se, but it was getting into something, um, uh, around like geopolitics and it was just actually incorrect. And, and I, I made some kind of, uh, you know, comments kind of snippy thing about that. [00:28:38] And, and she had to laugh. She was just like, oh my God, that was so dismissive or whatever. And she was right. But, um, I I’ve, I used to always argue vociferously about that. And it’s weird because now that I have like the fear of, you know, only having so much time left with people, [00:29:00] like there’s certain, there’s certain conversations I just [00:29:03] Jeff: won’t get into. [00:29:04] Brett: we do, we tip to around these topics because we accept my parents accept that I am a brainwashed atheist, and I accept that they are brainwash fundamentalists and, and we tip to around these topics. And there’s just kind of this silent nod that, yeah, I know, I know how you feel about this. We’re going to just steer away from this topic now. [00:29:27] Um, but my dad actually told me this morning that not only was I brainwashed the entire scientific community was brainwashed and it is to their detriment that they have blackballed, anyone who disagrees with evolution and like, like, it was some kind of conspiracy at like they had made up this fantasy and they [00:29:51] Jeff: fucking Kirk, Cameron, Kirk, Cameron [00:29:57] Christina: match. Do you remember when he got into like the debate or like, [00:30:00] like one of his people, like they tried to have like a debate with an evolutionary scientist to prove that the Bible was real, [00:30:06] Brett: Well, Kent Ken ham, Ken ham, who created the evolutionary or the, uh, the Ark encounter and the creationist museum had a debate with bill Nye. [00:30:17] Jeff: That’s what it was. [00:30:19] Brett: it was like most bill Nye supporters were like, why would you do this? Why would you give this guy a platform? Uh, but he did it. And by all accounts, he won the debate, but it doesn’t matter. [00:30:32] You can’t debate with these [00:30:33] Christina: no, you can’t like, these are people. [00:30:35] who like, there’s not going to be, you know, they are committed to what they’re committed to, what you hope, I guess with that, is that for people who might not be completely all in, um, might have some sort of change in thought because, uh, this is less true, I think for, um, civilians the creationist stuff. [00:30:56] But this is certainly true with like a conspiracy [00:31:00] theories where people can make a compelling argument and. Younger people who are just getting into something will see it and see, oh, it makes sense. And there’ll be like me when I was, you know, um, in elementary school and, and up, up until I think college, honestly, who I believed a lot of the Kennedy conspiracy theory stuff, because the stuff that I’d seen that lined up and it wasn’t until I saw some sort of documentary on one of the anniversaries where it was showing a direct lineup between where Oswald wasn’t shot and how it would actually like it was a computer. [00:31:37] Um, Like generated, um, like, like recreation of what the car was like. And they found that people who’d said, oh, there’s no way that it could have gone through both people. They’d miscalculated how the car was set up. And, and there is, there was like a, um, that the front seat was up, um, uh, slightly and, and, and I guess, like offset. Right, Exactly. And so when I saw the [00:32:00] actual like bullet trajectory path, when somebody had recreated, like in they’d recreate this uproot or film in, in a 3d, like, it was, it was incredible. And I went, oh, holy shit. Yeah. There’s no question about it. It was, is a single, you know, uh, uh, shooter. There’s like, if you want to talk about who put them there and whatnot, I personally agree as difficult as it, you know, sometimes is to give the government credence on things. [00:32:23] Like I do believe, you know, the Warren commission’s report. And, but, but seeing that at least absolve me of any question of, oh, [00:32:31] Brett: basically the story of my life. Like I grew up in elementary school, these stories of Noah’s Ark and these stories, like all of the Bible in general. Made sense. Like they seemed reasonable and it wasn’t until high school. When I started to be presented with evidence to the contrary that I began to question things and then college, [00:33:00] you know, uh, you know, college, um, that like, it became very clear that these things were errand. [00:33:09] And, and, and I, I began my path towards being an atheist. And if I had been raised much, my girlfriend was raised in a, uh, uh, like very, almost Unitarian kind of home where [00:33:26] Jeff: Our, our reading today is from Steinbeck. [00:33:32] Brett: And, and so she doesn’t have, like, she has this fear of fundamentalists, but she doesn’t have this strong aversion to fund, like to Christianity, to, to religious people that I do. And if I had been raised like that, I would probably still be a, whatever you would consider spiritual, although. Okay. So I did, I went to temple again [00:34:00] last week [00:34:01] Jeff: Okay. [00:34:02] Brett: and I, so I, after this snafu with my parents this morning, I texted my rabbi and I was like, all right, I need to know if you believe in evolution. [00:34:17] And then I was like, maybe I don’t want her to know. Maybe, maybe. [00:34:21] Jeff: a rabbi. Of course he does. [00:34:22] Brett: Maybe if, if you don’t believe in evolution, maybe I don’t want to know about it, but he’s like, fucking of course, I believe in evolution, there’s no reform Jew in the United States who doesn’t believe in evolution. And although Siri translated it as there’s no reformed you who doesn’t believe evolution, Israel, [00:34:50] Jeff: Whoa, Siri’s all like I got a rabbi here. That’d be switch. [00:34:55] Brett: Israel, Baraka, TA out. And I, [00:35:00] um, and so like, he’s like, of course I believe in evolution, like there’s, it’s, it’s inconceivable that anyone wouldn’t believe in evolution. And I was like, this is why I go to temple. This is why like, I, I am an atheist, I’m a sauna atheist. I’m not looking for God, but I appreciate the community. [00:35:20] Christina: Well, I was going to say, you’re not looking for the real, your bro. You’re looking, we talked about this last episode and you’re looking for the community. [00:35:25] Brett: Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate in this last temple I went to, they were celebrating, uh, a couple that had been with the community for 49 years and were moving on. They were moving to be closer to their, their family and they were leaving the community and they let the, the, the, the man get up and talk about like what, what that community had meant to him. [00:35:57] And it was very touching. Like [00:36:00] I was, I was like, this is, I understand why people are religious. If this is, if this is what they get out of it, having grown up with fire and brimstone and young earth creationism, it made sense to me. [00:36:17] Jeff: Um, there’s a book, uh, the philosopher Alain de Baton. I dunno how you say his name actually, because I think it’s French and it probably just sounds like Elaine at all. Um, and it’s called religion for atheists and not only is this person, just one of my favorite, very accessible, um, writers, but he does a beautiful job of the whole book is essentially just like, okay. Yeah. I’m an atheist. Let’s, you know, that’s the thing. Um, but do I just write off everything that it, you know, is filed under religion? Or do I kind of try to understand that being an atheist, what might be missing in my life? Like in, in my, in my attempts, at meaning making in my attempts at [00:37:00] understanding how [00:37:00] Brett: is the actual important part of religion? That’s [00:37:03] Jeff: Yeah, and he just, it’s a beautiful book. It’s a really quick read. I just really recommend it. It’s a beautiful book and it gets that community of course, and ritual and all of that, but it’s really nice. [00:37:13] Brett: it called again [00:37:14] Jeff: It’s called religion. It’s called religion for atheists. [00:37:19] Brett: All right. [00:37:22] Jeff: That’s a great book. I like, I like being able to T so I’m not, I’m not, I’m not religious. I was raised Catholic. [00:37:29] Um, I’m, I’m pretty sure. [00:37:31] Brett: not religious. I was raised Catholic. [00:37:33] Jeff: I’m pretty sure that I’m pretty sure that I don’t believe in God, at least in the way I’ve understood it. Yada, yada, yada. Um, but um, I have to say that I, I get nothing out of having conversations about religion that, um, That like, you know, the first step is like, okay, let’s dig two trenches. [00:37:52] Those are where the idiots are, and this is where we are. Right. Like, I can’t, I just can’t do that. Um, because I’ve, I’ve been [00:38:00] around enough people in my life who are religious to understand that, like, this is, this is how you do meaning-making at its best. Right. It can be really dysfunctional and terrible at its worst. [00:38:08] Um, and I think you’re describing some of that, Brett. Um, but, but at its at its best, it’s, it’s a way people find meaning and, and, and that’s like, that’s the thing, right? We walk through this, they’re trying to understand what does it all mean and how should I live? And I don’t fault anybody for, for, you know, finding a home inside of some, you know, construct that for me is kind of unfathomable What what I struggle with, which it sounds like is happening with your parents. [00:38:35] And I’ve certainly had people in my family down that road is like, it’s like, is religion when religion is just a jumble of counterfactual. And not something that predominantly helps you answer the question of how do I live then I just don’t understand it at all. I can’t, I can’t relate at all. And it sounds like you’re kind of stuck in that where it’s [00:39:00] like this counterfactual, uh, relationship to religion [00:39:03] Brett: drives me insane is this concept of morality. And in the church I grew up in morality can’t exist without God. Like, if you don’t believe in God, you are by default, uh, we’ll say homosexual murderer, because those are like the two worst things that a church can imagine. Right. [00:39:28] Jeff: Uh huh. [00:39:28] Brett: And so if you don’t have God, there is no morality. [00:39:34] You have no sense of right and wrong without God. And that is what has always driven me nuts because I have always felt I have a perfectly functioning, moral compass. Like I understand what makes life better for me and for those around me and I care about it. And, and I am perfectly capable of deciding right and wrong for myself [00:40:00] without religion. [00:40:02] And most religions that I’ve run into understand that morality is a scale. And most of them accept that humans by default understand right and wrong. And, and everyone’s everyone’s right. And wrong may be different. Like that’s. That’s a variable scale, just like it is between religions. But the idea that if you don’t have a God, you have no idea. [00:40:34] What’s right. And wrong has always baffled me. [00:40:39] Christina: Yeah, no, it’s I don’t know. I mean, we, we, it’s so interesting too, because at least like the church that I was brought up in and, and look, I, I consider myself maybe spiritual it. We’ve talked about this before. I have a hard time completely divesting myself. I’ve called myself an atheist before, but I’m really not I’m I’m agnostic. [00:40:58] Um, but, um, [00:41:00] Like the way that I was brought up, which like, I think that even though I went to church every Sunday and, and as a child really cared a lot about, about God and whatnot, I think your parents would consider me moral it because I certainly was never brought up to think, oh, well, people who believe something different than me are going to hell. [00:41:21] Like that was never even [00:41:22] Jeff: a question. Yeah. [00:41:24] Brett: My girlfriend has never been married. And when I brought up the topic of premarital sex, she’s like, holy shit, that’s the only kind of sex I’ve ever had. [00:41:35] Jeff: Right. [00:41:35] Christina: Right. Well, and look, and that was definitely something that like, was, was talked about as being like, like bad and this and that. And I had to kind of get over my own hangups for that, you know? And, and, uh, it, obviously I did. Um, but, but it was one of those things where like, it was kind of drilled into us. [00:41:51] Like you, you should, you should wait until you’re married and whatnot. And then I think. I think I was still like going to church and I was, I told my mom and I was like, yeah, I don’t think I’m going to do [00:42:00] that. And she got really upset and I was like, look, and, and, and my, my rationale was, was actually, especially for being as young as I was, was really, I think smart because what I said was, I don’t want to set This this thing up for myself that I can’t live up to, and then feel like I failed in some way. [00:42:17] And, and, and I, I don’t want to take on that kind of emotional thing of like, you, you were not good enough and you’re not a good person, and you’re a failure because I didn’t live up to this frankly, bullshit ideal of a [00:42:29] Brett: based on property. [00:42:31] Jeff: Right. Right. Well, and come to find out, right? Like especially our generation, like come to find out that, that, that there’s this voice in all of us that tells us we’re not good enough. [00:42:41] We’re not this enough. We’re not that enough. And you start to wonder if, if, if religion, you know, it just kind of took the space of that voice and that voice took the shape of religion for people. I mean, I don’t know, like I’m, I have kind of an arrogant take on it a little bit, which is like, like in the case of what you’re talking about, [00:43:00] bright with your parents, but also like my son just finished a documentary project for history day on the satanic panic around Dungeons and dragons and the aides. [00:43:08] And like, it’s, it’s all just such a case of it all feels to me. And I’m not saying that this is what it is. This is why I say it’s kind of arrogant. It feels like a case to me of the symbol is not the thing symbolized. Right. So like. When Patricia Pauling’s son killed himself believing he was under the influence of a spell cast on him in a game. [00:43:28] And I’m willing to just accept that at face value, right. That he was not well. And he believed that, that this spell had impacted him in real life. He committed to a side. She started this organization called, called, um, what was it? It’s the acronym is bad, bad. D it’s um, something against Dungeons and dragons. [00:43:46] Anyway, she. No, no, no, she, but she’s up there, you know, on all the television news shows and she’s, she’s, you know, talking about, um, suicide rates in Dungeons dragons, using statistics that don’t make any sense. [00:44:00] And, and my son who’s seventh grade was sort of. Not really like mocking her, but whenever he did have to talk about her or think about her, it felt like, um, he, you know, he was kind of looking down on her and I just, I said, and I said, like I said this to his teacher too, cause I wasn’t sure like just even developmentally how to approach it so that it’s like, look, this woman did a lot of harm in the name of her grief, which is something that humans do all the time. [00:44:26] And hers took the form of this thing that actually caused a lot of harm for a lot of. Kids who are, who are finding a way to have community in a way to express themselves and all of that, right? Like D and D was such a positive force for so many people, but it was a positive force for so many people at the same time that the popular culture, and sometimes their parents were telling them that they were evil because they were doing it. [00:44:47] Right. The thing about the symbol is not the thing symbolized as like, clearly this wasn’t about D and D for Patricia pulling in a lot of ways. Like this was a mother who lost her son and was trying to understand [00:44:58] Christina: it. That’s [00:45:00] What it was. It was, it was a mother who it was easier. And it would be, I think, for anyone to say not my son was, was severely mentally ill and, and was in pain and made a decision because of his psychosis or whatever the case may be. [00:45:15] But to say, if not for this game, he would still be alive. Right. because, you know, I can’t even conceive of, I’m not a parent, so I can’t even begin to conceive what it’d be like to lose a child, but I know what it’s like to lose other people. And I know what grief is like, and, and I, I, you know, grief does fuck up things to you all. [00:45:34] So I love that you gave your son that perspective. Cause I think that’s so important, especially at his age. Cause I know when I was his age, I totally would have been the same thing. I would have been locking itself. You know what I mean? But like I would have been, I wouldn’t have even entered my mind though to even have that perspective of like, oh, I’m so self satisfied, look how smart I am. [00:45:50] Look how good I am. And, and we see that all the time on Twitter. Like I see people who are my friends who still take that perspective and it’s like, no, these people did [00:46:00] bad. Things are wrong, but where did it come from? You know? [00:46:03] Jeff: Right, right. And like, and that just the humility of saying, of recognizing that we all make bad decisions and hurt people. [00:46:10] And it’s not always on the same scale, but like it comes from the same internal operating [00:46:15] Christina: system. Right. [00:46:17] Jeff: I also [00:46:17] Brett: be possibly have said for like what, [00:46:21] Jeff: Uh, hold on. I may, I should know this cause I’ve, he’s been working on this so much. Um, [00:46:26] Brett: Like brethren against like B I can’t think of any B words that aren’t about boys. And this is a mother we’re [00:46:34] Jeff: not snappy. It’s bothered about origins and dragons bothered. that’s [00:46:40] Brett: I’m sorry for laughing. Cause this is a very serious topic. [00:46:43] Jeff: It’s a doable. Yeah. [00:46:46] Christina: You know, you know, mad worked because mad was both a good acronym and worked, you know what I [00:46:50] Jeff: mean? [00:46:50] Brett: Mad was brilliant. [00:46:52] Jeff: yeah. Where this fails is that what they’re trying to convince the world is that this is Satan’s foothold into your children’s lives. [00:46:58] So to say that you’re bothered [00:47:00] about it is a little out of scale [00:47:01] Brett: is state 10 [00:47:02] Christina: and it is No, and it was a real thing and, and it’s. we, saw it, you know, uh, with Columbine, you see with a lot of things where people, they can’t conceive of any other sort of boogeyman. Like they need the boogeyman there because they can’t conceive that something terrible could happen just because it happens. [00:47:21] Jeff: Um, or because it was somehow mental health related, like in those, in those days, Jesus, like no one had a language [00:47:26] Christina: for that. No. And even now, um, in some ways I almost feel like it’s sometimes has gone too far in the other direction where now we immediately give almost a pass to anybody who does anything like, oh, well they’re mentally unwell. [00:47:42] And not to say that that isn’t the reason, but, but then, but then somehow like that absolve some of their actions and that’s not true, right? Like. Yeah. People who are, who are, who are mentally ill, can still do terrible things and are still responsible for their actions. It just means we need to have an understanding about it, but, but it comes into this thing where people like [00:48:00] flatten it to the point where they’re like, oh no, no, we can’t say anything negative about someone who has like a mental health problem. [00:48:07] Okay. Fuck that. [00:48:08] Brett: need to understand when we talk about how we could have prevented something, we need to understand the roots of mental illness, [00:48:17] Jeff: exactly. [00:48:18] Brett: not excuse mental illness, but understand that we didn’t do anything about it. [00:48:23] Jeff: Right. And also in some [00:48:24] Christina: cases like the case with this woman’s son, there might be circumstances. And this is really sad because this happens in all the cases where you might, even if you did everything right, it wouldn’t have stopped it. And I think that’s, I think that’s the most difficult thing for people to say, even if we saw all the science, even if we acted on things. [00:48:40] Cause you see that happen all the time, where people do act on things where people do have treatment, where people buy because of that as part of also the nature of, of, you know, mental health is that we’re deceitful about it because we don’t want to, um, accepted a lot of cases, um, or, or, you know, something just like, you know, stuff just happens. [00:48:59] Like, [00:49:00] and, and I think that that’s the hardest thing for people to kind of grapple with terrible things happen, which is that even if I did everything right, I might not have been able to prevent this, so I need to have somebody to blame. So in, in, so in, in, in that woman’s case, it is okay. I can’t conceive of anything else other than the fact that if this game did not exist, he would still be alive. [00:49:20] Yeah, [00:49:21] Jeff: yeah. Completely. Yeah. And like I’m for him, like, I didn’t expect him to come to that. It was more like, what was nice was the fact that he was doing a piece of journalism, gave me a reason to be like, Hey, just so you know, when you tell this, you kinda gotta tell, you gotta tell it in a way that if she was watching it she’d feel like, okay, you don’t agree with me, but you definitely described my primary concern, which is a great [00:49:42] Christina: lesson. [00:49:42] And because, cause again, like, even if he’s not gonna always like come, uh, uh, come about like have that level of empathy and, and whatnot at his age, I think just even having a dad, who’s saying, Hey, you might need to look at it. [00:49:54] this way because he’s already doing this sort of journalism. He’s already inquisitive. [00:49:57] So that’s opening up his mind to then [00:50:00] look at those things from this perspective, [00:50:02] Jeff: Definitely. Yeah. definitely. I don’t know, man. I just feel like we’re, we’re, we’re in constant as a culture. We just feel like perpetually in denial of our capacity to do harm. And, and, and we forget that we all are born with that capacity and, and live and walk with that capacity. [00:50:18] And I feel like if we had some, like some level of like, not necessarily comfort, but just acceptance of that so much could [00:50:25] Christina and Jeff: be [00:50:25] Christina: different. No. And the thing is, is we all do harm, right? And we all do harm. And I think the thing too is I think about this a lot as a comfort in the acceptance of the fact that make it better. [00:50:37] But B I think there’s also a realization that, and this I think has happened to where I do get frustrated with, with people on my own side, Who, no one wants to assume good faith. And no one wants to assume that just that the people who are doing harm didn’t intend to some people do intend to do harm. [00:50:53] Absolutely. But many people don’t. And that doesn’t change the fact that they’re not harming [00:50:59] Jeff: someone right. [00:50:59] Brett: [00:51:00] who are these people that intend to do harm? Like I’ve seen it. I seen it, but in my mind, the average everyday person, anywhere in the world does not intend to do harm. [00:51:15] Jeff: Does it wake up them, you know, in the morning, what is the people always say this when they’re talking about various crimes, that person did not wake up this morning wanting to do X, but they did X. [00:51:25] So, about Sammy Hagar [00:51:25] Brett: Yeah. Can you believe we’ve made it to 50 minutes in without talking about Sammy Hagar? [00:51:33] Jeff: Uh, I can do it. It’s actually, uh, we could, we could save it for next week or I could do it now. Uh, [00:51:40] Brett: I feel like it’s happening. This [00:51:41] Jeff: yeah, we’re, they’re actually, I mean, This is a perfect transition and then, um, I’ll have to go cause I have to tend to the, to the world outside my door. Um, so. Okay. So Sammy Hagar now, just to give some background, uh, Sammy Hagar was a relief, [00:52:00] just super ridiculous, hard rock singer in the eighties. [00:52:04] His big hit that put him on my radar was the song I can’t drive 55. [00:52:11] which to me like if you’re gonna plant your fucking flag in the ground, like, is that really it? And as a side note, the Minutemen, the wonderful punk rock, uh, group from California had a double album called double nickels on the dime and double nickels is 55. [00:52:31] And there’s the whole idea of that album was we absolutely will drive 55 if Sammy Hagar will not. [00:52:37] um, But anyhow, he was, he was a cornball, I mean, in a, in a, in a total like genre of cornballs. Right. But he was just such an assertive corn ball. And, and I was at that time, like so many kids, my age, I was in probably fourth or fifth grade when I heard of San Diego, I was a huge van Halen fan. [00:52:58] In fact, this would have been around when [00:53:00] the album, 1984 came out, which has all the big hits, like hopper teacher and, you know, uh, jump and all that stuff. Everything gets played at the roller rink. I don’t know if that’s still true. Um, but at any rate, Then healing for me was incredible. Even then. I mean, like I can speak better about what I love about that era of van Halen now. [00:53:22] And I can say it very simply, you have this over-sexualized seemingly like a CIS hetero male rock group, but the singer pulled dances and videos in a sailor suit. And so it’s like, it’s like, what is this wonderful multi-layered universe that’s called van Halen. Um, and I’m talking about David Lee Roth, who was just a completely, is a completely bizarre superstar who like, again, would pull dance, uh, in a sailor suit in a video. [00:53:54] But also like when I moved to New York city in 2000 SU [00:54:00] 2005, he was working as a goddamn EMT in the Bronx. Like he is the most fascinating character. [00:54:07] Brett: diamond, [00:54:07] Jeff: Lee Roth, diamond Dave was working at Yeah. [00:54:10] seriously. Yeah. And you know, I can prove it with a quote from him, uh, which doesn’t really prove it, which is like, I remember reading an interview and he had some code about how his dream is that he’ll just come upon some Swiss female hiker who’s broken her leg leg or whatever. [00:54:23] You know what I mean? Like it’s a very David Lee rut, but anyway, so David Lee Roth, you know, he, in, in 1985, he’s out of the band. We don’t have to get into the drama, but he’s out of the band. Right. [00:54:34] Christina: That’s the great behind the music [00:54:36] Jeff: on it, but Yeah, Oh, good. Okay. Good to know. And, and, and who gets hired for the job, Mr. [00:54:41] Fucking, I can’t drive 55, who definitely is not pulled dancing in a sailor suit. Right. So that’s the first disappointment, the first very specific disappointment, but then he comes in and he’s such a cornball and his, his songs are just, his lyrics are just so fucking dumb. They’re dumb. I mean, Dave, [00:55:00] Dave rots lyrics were dumb. [00:55:01] If you listened to them hot for [00:55:03] Brett: the thing is I never gave a shit. I never gave a shit about this argument because they were both dumb. [00:55:09] Jeff: they were well, okay. So, but here’s the thing, David Lee Roth brought it with this sort of vaudeville kind of presentation, which to this day is super attractive to me. I just love watching him do his crazy ass vaudeville hair metal thing. [00:55:23] There was nobody else like him. And there were plenty of Sammy Hagar, RS. And so Sammy Hagar joins the band. They make a band, they make an album called 51 50, which is like, I think the legal code for insane or whatever, which like Sammy Hagar is totally not insane. He’s like the most not insane boring person ever. [00:55:41] Right. They become a huge thing. And me instantly, right. It’s like, do you, who do you side with, are you with van Hagar? Are you with van Halen [00:55:50] Brett: Who did, who did for unlawful carnal knowledge? [00:55:53] Jeff: That’s them, which stands for fuck. I mean, it’s just so stupid. And they had an album called, they had an album called Ooh, [00:56:00] 8 1 2, which is just the letter O the letter U you know, the number eight, the number one, the number you just such a stupid anyway. [00:56:08] So I, you know, we all decided we all had to take a side in those days and, and that was one of those things, kind of like what we were talking about earlier, where you decide who you hate and you hold onto it forever inexplicably. Right? So like I now know that I was so dramatically against Sammy Hagar in 1985, that a friend of mine who I hadn’t talked to since that year, a couple of years ago, We kind of reunited and he’s like, dude, anytime van Hagar comes out on an a bar. [00:56:37] Like I fucking, I, I raised the flag I’m for David Lee Roth. And you know, what’s fucked up about that. I don’t even listen to van Halen. I just remember that for you, because you were so intense about it in 1985 [00:56:49] Brett: are really we’re we’re we’re really appealing to our millennial audience here. [00:56:56] Jeff: So anyway, uh, here’s, here’s the, here’s the deal? So [00:57:00] I, my dad who my dad gave, uh, gave my son a CD. Uh, my son started listening to old, like classic rock and he had a cassette player and a CD player, and my dad would get him stuff from the thrift store. He brought a copy of and I said, son, do you know what we do with this? [00:57:14] And he said, he said, what? I said, we’d go out to the garage and we hit it with a hammer, [00:57:20] Brett: That [00:57:20] Jeff: which is why, [00:57:21] Brett: way my parents treated all my Aerosmith. CDs. [00:57:24] Jeff: Exactly. And so anyway, okay. So this has gone on for, let’s be honest, like way too long. Like I should not hate him. I tell a story often about defender Barnhart, bear bar. Now you remember this guy, Devin, the vendor Ben on our database. [00:57:36] Brett: What are you talking [00:57:37] Jeff: it like member freak folk in like the low early two thousands, [00:57:43] Brett: are you? [00:57:44] Jeff: 47? [00:57:45] Brett: Oh my God. Okay. So. [00:57:47] Jeff: Anyway, this is like you just picture like the dirtiest hippie with a guitar in like, uh, with a gig at a sushi restaurant. It’s somewhere in Los Angeles, right. And [00:58:00] Sammy Hagar is there eating sushi and he hates this guy’s songs. [00:58:04] Right. And so he goes up and confronts him and this guy punches him in the face. And I have loved telling that story for So. [00:58:11] long. And I finally just wondered, why do I love this? Why do I care? And so the other day, this is we’re getting to it. Now, the other day, I’m driving in my car and I have a tendency to listen to the classic rock station. [00:58:22] So long as the morning, show’s not on. Um, cause I’m just like, I don’t really get off on like misogyny and xenophobia. Oh, and, and, and on comes a van Hagar song it’s uh, uh, come on, baby. Finish what you started. Uh, it’s it’s very snappy. Um, it’s got lovely guitar playing, uh, Sammy Hagar. His voice I admit is very kind of, can be kind of rich and pleasant. [00:58:48] Right. But it’s also stupid. But I said to myself, as soon as I heard the riff, I said, I think it’s time. I think it’s time to allow this in. Normally I would just change the station. Right. But I allow [00:59:00] this in. I’m not going to just leave the party because this guy walked in. Right. Like I’m going to stay here and I’m going to hold my ground and just be me and let him be him. [00:59:07] And yeah, that’s what it is. So I listened to the song. I let my foot tap a little bit, you know, I, to let out a couple of noises that sounded roughly like the chorus and, uh, and it was all over. And I thought, I feel like something has changed for me. And then about 20 minutes later, I was on phone call with a friend who is telling me. [00:59:27] that they’re in this stage relationship wise, where they don’t want to commit what they want is someone that can be very loving, but also a friend. [00:59:38] And I said, quoting that song that I had just listened to 20 minutes ago. You want to love her? You want a friend, honey? I can be both. And that wasn’t me offering. I’m saying I was like, you’re, you’re what you’re talking about is what Sammy was talking about. Right. And then I just decided, and I decided right there, it was over. [00:59:58] And now I watch, I watch [01:00:00] him doing interviews with people. I just try it. I just, I’m just letting them in. I’m letting them in because you know what, why the fuck am I carrying this much anger about a man that completely insignificant to my life, [01:00:10] Christina: so for, for, for, for like 37 years, you’ve been, you’ve been [01:00:15] Jeff: harboring this resentment people that haven’t seen me since I was a child Harbor it for me, like they’ve been standard bearers for my cause. [01:00:24] Brett: I’ve been trying not to laugh directly microphone, but this is great. [01:00:29] Jeff: This is fantastic. [01:00:32] Christina: I also have to say, cause I put it in the show notes whenever I hear Sammy Hagar. The only thing I think of as the Nerf herder song, which is like, it’s called van Halen. And it’s like, is this what you wanted? Sammy Hagar? And like the whole thing, the whole course is like never again, never again, like about how, like, basically it’s like, it’s all about like how van Halen’s been ruined and, and, uh, that’s all I can think about whenever I, I hear [01:00:56] Jeff: Sammy Hagar. [01:00:57] Brett: I was always fascinated by how, [01:01:00] how, how much people committed to this controversy or diamond day [01:01:07] Jeff: it has. [01:01:07] Brett: SIM Hager. [01:01:08] Jeff: And that is exact. And that, that commitment is commensurate to what a unique fucking force of nature. David Lee Roth was. [01:01:18] Brett: Okay. So to, to bring this back around previous episodes, I feel like there’s the same kind of, no, it’s not though Tommy Lee, I’m talking about Tammy [01:01:29] Jeff: Yeah. Oh boy. Yeah, [01:01:31] Brett: It is not the same kind. Cause he was never replaced. [01:01:35] Jeff: no. And he was just charming as all. And in the end of the day, that’s actually not that special [01:01:40] Christina: Again, this was, this is another music area where I, like, I just don’t have any, and I mentioned this before, maybe it was in that last episode, but I have like no cultural reference of hair bands. [01:01:51] Jeff: Hmm, you guys. I wrote, I wrote four city pages, the weekly here. I wrote a history of hair metal in the twin cities. Nice. [01:02:00] I’ll have to share it with you. That you’ll love it, [01:02:01] Brett: This has been a fun episode. You got. [01:02:03] Jeff: yeah. Sorry. I feel like when I w that rant, you must be wondering, did, we basically bring a boomer onto this podcast? [01:02:12] Brett: but it’s to extent we’re extending our reach. [01:02:18] Christina: The millennial is the one who contends that the BGS were a good band, [01:02:21] Jeff: so, yeah, right. That’s right. That’s right. That’s right. [01:02:25] Brett: Hey, you guys get some sleep. [01:02:28] Jeff: oh God. I can only dream of sleeping, get some sleep. All right. Y’all talk to you.

Or Second Life With a Helmet… Jeff Severns Guntzel joins the Overtired crew for a third week to discuss Ukraine, zombies, vampires, and things that go viral in the night. Sponsor Stop paying crazy wireless bills and switch to Mint Mobile. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to mintmobile.com/overtired. Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. Show Links Al Jazeera Militar Combat simulator dev asks people not to use game to create fake Ukranian war footage Matthew Cassel Matthew Cassel TikTok AMAZING post Oculus: A rabbi and an atheist programmer walk into the metaverse Raising Dion Vampire Diaries The Dead Don’t Die interview The Walking Dead Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter. Transcript Overtired 275 [00:00:00] Brett: Hey listeners, you are tuned into as if it were an FM dial. You are tuned into overtired. I am Brett Terpstra. I am here as always with Christina warrant and for the third week in a row, [00:00:19] Christina: Part time [00:00:20] Brett: Jeff sevens Gunzel [00:00:21] Christina: and this house. [00:00:23] Brett: and his house purse, which has caused quite the stir amongst the people. [00:00:29] Christina: We’ll want to know? Tell us more about the house first. [00:00:32] Jeff: Uh, now right [00:00:34] Brett: Well, let’s let’s, let’s do a quick mental health. Check-in Jeff, how you doing? [00:00:39] Jeff: Um, I’m, I’m, I’m doing good in many ways. Um, it’s been a couple, few weeks since I’ve had real sleep and, um, I’m, I’ve returned to something that hasn’t happened to me since the beginning of the pandemic, which is I, I, I started. Basically 1:00 AM. Um, I roll over, I look at the [00:01:00] clock 1:00 AM. I think I fall back asleep for a long time. [00:01:03] I rolled back over one 15 and I do this and I do this until I get out of bed at five. And, um, and it’s really, it’s just gotten to the point where it’s like, okay, this is, this is a problem, you know, but an hour ago we’re recording kind of early, not as early as for you Christina, an hour ago, I was just like on the couch, barely able to form words. [00:01:23] And so I’ve really pulled myself together. [00:01:25] Brett: are you taking ADHD meds right now? [00:01:28] Jeff: No, I [00:01:28] Christina and Jeff: am [00:01:29] Brett: So this is just, this is just natural Geoff sleep patterns. All five. [00:01:33] Jeff: apparently which again, I mean, one that again, I’ve told you this bread in the past, but like sleep was the one problem I never had. I could lay down literally anywhere and, and, [00:01:43] Brett: Even in Iraq. [00:01:45] Jeff: even in anywhere. Yeah. And fall asleep and falling asleep is still not my problem, but staying asleep. Oh [00:01:50] Christina: boy. [00:01:51] Brett: Yeah, I get it. I get it. I don’t know if it’s like, I’ve heard people talk about that being an age thing, like just sleeping less as you get [00:02:00] older, but I definitely have that problem started. Mine starts around 2:00 AM. Yeah. Between two and four, especially just every 15 minutes. Thinking, thinking it’s been longer than it has, although I’m cursed with the ability to always know exactly how long I’ve been asleep. [00:02:16] Like I can wake up from a super deep nap and know with within a 10 minute, like span what time it is. [00:02:23] Jeff: Actually that’s one thing I’ve lost. I just, you just made me realize that it used to be that I could wake up any point in the night and be like, oh, it’s two 30, roughly. And now I wake up and I think, oh, it’s two 30. I’m like, it’s 1130. [00:02:38] Brett: Um, so Christina, how are you? [00:02:40] Christina: So, you know, the role is a dumpster fire, even more than like usual right now. And, uh, obviously like this doesn’t impact me in any real way at all. Uh, but it is still one of those things where like, grant can’t stop watching the news. [00:02:57] Brett: Hmm. [00:02:58] Christina: I’m watching the news and then it [00:03:00] does have this weird, like add on effect on my mental health in so far as like, and we’ve talked about this before, but because I spent so many years in Jeff, I think you can probably relate to this. [00:03:11] Uh, and, and you can still to some extent, but, but maybe, uh, maybe you can relate to what I’m going to say now. Like, because for so many years I was covering. These terrible things as they were happening in real time, I got sense of almost like separation from it in so far as I never really had to like, contemplate what was going on and when I’m not living in like the, the day-to-day like news cycle stuff, even though. [00:03:37] Uh, you know, war reporter or like a breaking news person, because I lived in that ecosystem and, and had to kind of be around it and would have to write stories if it was related kind of associated with that stuff. Now that I don’t have that kind of, you know, thing that that would prevent me from being able to like internalize all the terrible things that happen in the world. [00:03:59] It’s [00:04:00] really depressing and, and is it’s sort of difficult sometimes to grapple with. All of the terrible things that are happening to the world. [00:04:10] Jeff: I definitely relate to that. Definitely relate to that. It’s I you saying, I mean, for me, part of it is that like, I’m constantly having to remind myself you have nothing to do here. [00:04:20] Right? Like there’s, there’s nothing that you are doing. There’s nothing that you can do at this moment. And so that’s like, think [00:04:27] Christina: about it. [00:04:28] Brett: Oh, yeah. I, I could see that being a feeling of helplessness, at least when you’re reporting, you feel like you’re, you’re part of it. [00:04:35] You’re doing something. [00:04:37] Christina: Yeah, you’re doing something, but also it’s also in some ways kind of a, just a base distraction thing, right? Like you have time to even internalize what it is because you’ve got to get a story out and you’ve got to kind of feel the attached, like even like from a job perspective, like you’ve got to be like, okay, I have to be detached to be able to be professional. [00:04:54] And then when you don’t have that, it’s like, Oh, wow. [00:05:00] Okay. I have to actually think about this and, and it’s not my job and I can’t do anything about it. And I don’t have that attachment thing that I used to. [00:05:08] Brett: So speaking of news I have for a long time. If I get into it with somebody and they’re like either like Fox news or MSNBC Watchers, like I talk about like unbiased news and, and how you need, like, you need more news sources and they’re always asking for recommendations. If, if it’s a good conversation they’re asking for recommendations. [00:05:32] And for a long time, I’ve just pointed people towards, towards writers till aids writers. [00:05:38] Christina: it’s still his way. Did you know who you kind of listened to? [00:05:41] Brett: Um, because like writers does a pretty good job of just putting out the AP Newswire as is. Um, but you know, I haven’t given her enough credit to? [00:05:51] and I almost completely forgot about until this week is Al Jazeera and Al-Jazeera does some really good [00:05:58] Christina: I was just here America. You [00:06:00] mean? [00:06:00] Brett: sure. [00:06:01] I mean, obviously like, [00:06:04] Christina: no, but no, cause that’s an important distinction. [00:06:06] Brett: Okay. I don’t know anything about other Al-Jazeera is all I know is that the Al Jazeera network that I can pick up on my apple TV with an Al-Jazeera app offers really good, uh, unbiased. Like they bring in a panel of people that don’t necessarily agree. Clearly don’t have like a party line that they’re following and are like spread around the world and offering different perspectives, different points of view, and they’re letting them talk. [00:06:36] And I’m talking about like, it’s called inside, not inside edition, but uh, it’s it there, they have a, uh, a panel series that they do in addition to the short news clips that they run. It’s it’s good stuff. [00:06:52] Jeff: I have been completely digesting this war on Tik TOK, which is not, which is pretty incredible, [00:07:00] actually. Like it’s, it’s the amount of. I mean, the algorithm clearly figured out fast that I’m, I’m gonna, you know, spend some time with the, with the, like, just whatever the guy who’s, who’s like taping his buddy, like moving a landmine from one place to another, with a cigarette dangling from his [00:07:20] Brett: Yeah. [00:07:20] I saw that one. I saw that I saw that on YouTube, [00:07:25] Jeff: okay. [00:07:25] Brett: as, as we know, that is how I consume tick-tock is through YouTube. [00:07:29] Jeff: And there are a lot of lives that happen at certain times in the day. And it’s not like I’m getting, um, analysis out of that, but I know, or [00:07:37] Christina: even necessarily like correct information from that, depending on like what [00:07:42] Jeff: you don’t know, if you’re looking at something that’s real. Although I feel like I’ve, I I’ve had to deal with that long enough that I’m, I’m kinda like blow by the stuff that I’m like, oh, there’s just no way of knowing that this is real, right. [00:07:51] Like the lives are really helpful. Um, But I just to say that like, um, having been in war [00:08:00] zones, the, the thing that sticks with me the most about that experience is how normal everything feels and how normal you feel in a strange way. And even as everything around you and you recognize this as completely extraordinary, um, the kinds of decisions you have to make are totally unlike decisions you would, you would usually have to make, but it’s you making them, you don’t feel like someone else making them. [00:08:26] And so when I see just kind of really, um, straightforward plain footage of people walking through their city, talking from their window, whatever it is, um, For reasons that I can’t necessarily say are extendable to people, really trying to understand the situation. It helps me to remember how completely real this has, especially as everybody gets horny for Zelensky and, and, and maybe like, can forget that all of this stuff that’s so inspiring.[00:09:00] [00:09:00] You know, going out and defending their country in, in a minute that can turn into all those people just ripped apart in debt, on the street. And, and if they’re not that on the street, those who take up guns who have never fought before and then kill, like something happens to them like where we’re with them in the popular culture sense through this moment of like, Yes, this is amazing. [00:09:21] Go get them. Fuck the Russians, whatever. Fuck Putin, not fuck the Russians. Cause those soldiers are a bunch of bunch of kids. Right? That’s the other thing that seems to be kind of missing, but like the thing that, um, I’m always trying to hang on to is that, you know, if, if I’m imagining myself in that situation, I’m imagining myself feeling the support of the world and the excitement of the world as I get ready, no matter how scared I am to sort of defend my city. [00:09:44] Um, but I also, I also know. Jeff knows, not as the person in Ukraine that like once you have to start shooting and once you do kill people, um, nobody’s with you anymore. You’re all alone. And, and it’s a lot of [00:10:00] people to be alone with something that. Very little kind of support or understanding of how to support. [00:10:07] And so like, I am just overwhelmed when I watched the news and watch everybody making Molotov cocktails, like I’m inspired. I’m like so moved, which is probably the better word I’m moved. Um, and at the same time, like I’m always thinking, I’m always thinking the after. And I really, I really know that all of this energy that’s propping, you know, Ukrainians up right now is going to be gone when they need it. [00:10:29] The most. That’s really sad to [00:10:31] Christina: me. [00:10:32] Brett: Yeah, I feel like so the Russian people for the first time in a conflict, I feel like the. The Russian people are being humanized by the news in a way that say Iraqis and Kuwaitis never were, uh, for me, um, it’s, it’s, it’s been very apparent that a good portion of Russia does not support this, this [00:11:00] move by Putin and that the people are affected directly by even things like sanction. [00:11:07] Affect the Russian people in a way that is unfortunate. And, and, and I feel like that has been made clear to me. [00:11:16] in a way that, uh, it hasn’t been in previous conflicts in my [00:11:20] Jeff: Does it there’s a quicker path to the humanity of white people? Unfortunately. [00:11:27] Christina: Yeah. I mean, I think, I think also the reality is like we have had more exposure potentially to people who live in Eastern Europe than we have to people who have lived in, you know, parts of the middle east. Who’ve actually lived there in that. [00:11:40] Not just have. [00:11:42] Jeff: Totally. Although I have to say for me, like I find it it’s a quicker path for me as well. Like, and I, and I feel like I, you know, just have known so many people in, in, especially the Arab war and like, and even for me, it’s just like, I see, I see someone like some white Ukrainian dude that like looks a little bit [00:12:00] like me, but maybe as a track suit on and like grabbing a gun and I’m just like, oh, I, I instantly relate to that. [00:12:06] It’s just, this is so [00:12:07] Brett: And they’re enlisting people up to the. 60, which includes all of us. [00:12:13] Christina: Yeah. [00:12:15] Jeff: I’d be down. I’m not trying to minimize this, but what, the thing that I really liked was when the military in the beginning was telling citizens, Hey, look like, be careful. And what you’re doing here is you’re shooting out tires. You’re setting the forest on fire. If they’re coming through the forest, like I appreciated that the military was giving advice to people that wasn’t just like, get out there and martyr yourself. [00:12:37] Right? Like, um, and, uh, and I’m super, just anxious for all of those [00:12:43] Christina: things. [00:12:44] Brett: I would like to point out that friend of the show, Harold, Chris Harold, uh, says, hold tight. I’m going to report Jeff and Christina for trying to get you to commit self harm by looking at tic-tac in response to our, in response to our last episode. [00:13:00] [00:13:01] Christina: Well look, just, just, just continue doing your, your compilations, you know, just continue to keep your compilations. You’ll be fine. [00:13:07] Brett: Um, there’s the science teacher, uh, vowel, uh, man, I forgot his name, but he does take compilations on YouTube where he just like spit science and it’s been fascinating. Like it’s the kind of thing that makes me think tic-tac maybe isn’t all bad. [00:13:29] Christina: Well it’s, [00:13:29] Jeff: I don’t understand. I I’m getting a lot of this vibe when I talk about Tik TOK lately, it’s like anything on the internet, right? Like it’s like, you have to use the skills that you’ve developed with which. We all have developed these both as journalists and as people to like, know where to turn and where to take the exit ramp and where to like accelerate. [00:13:48] Right? Like I think if you do that, Tik TOK for me is a lot like early Twitter where like I’m looking at people working on fishing boats, I’m looking at people talking from their, you know, [00:14:00] living room on Ukraine and putting their phone out the window. Like I’m a total. Like first person nerd. Like I just, I love, I love seeing people do the thing they do in a way that is, is, is as like clean a window into their lives as possible. [00:14:16] Tech doc has that. It also has a lot [00:14:18] Christina: of fucked up stuff. [00:14:19] Brett: my, here’s my question about Tik TOK and the Ukrainian conflict is so writers has a Twitter account called Reuters fact check and they, they fact check and they fact check Twitter in real time. And, um, one of the things that has been prevalent is the number of photos and videos that are being mis-attributed. [00:14:44] To the present conflict. And there are just so many images and so many videos that have that date back to like 2 20 19 that are not part of what’s happening is tic-tac [00:15:00] more reliable because it’s more alive. [00:15:02] Christina: no. It’s worse. It’s worse. It’s worse because the a you can upload stuff and people don’t know B the way the video is crunched down and, and, um, and you know, so, so the quality would be harder to ascertain. So it’s not even becomes like a, oh, well, this looks like an older video thing. Cause you’re like, well, I don’t know, you know, like, is, is, is that new or not? [00:15:21] Uh, see, um, the fact that. By nature people remix and edit stuff in the app. I mean, I think, I think, yeah. So you were going to end up like, I think it’s significantly worse. Oh my God. Yes. [00:15:33] Jeff: I mean, it’s, it’s completely worse. And by no means, am I saying, Hey, everybody go learn about the war, you know, by looking at Tik TOK, but I absolutely positively have located people that are useful to me in part, I mean, it started with a, an acquaintance of mine, an old colleague of mine. [00:15:48] Who’s there now reporting for vice news. Um, he himself has just a great as Matthew castle is his name. He has a great account on Tik TOK where he’ll just be kind of walking through Ukraine, talking and showing things, [00:16:00] but. It’s so hard and you have to be so careful, but you can, you know, baby step your way to a list of people that you can do, you can depend on essentially. [00:16:09] Right. Um, but also, I mean, it’s not just, it’s not just a video from old conflicts, like there’s this military combat simulator, um, that has already been on Tik TOK. Quite a while. And it looks for all the world, like a real conflict happening. It looks like actual shooting down of planes. And the footage from that game has been being presented as footage from Ukraine and the dev, the developer of the game has been like, please don’t do that. [00:16:37] Right. Like, which is like, well, you can’t put that one back in the bottle, buddy, but still [00:16:40] Christina: like, no, I was going to say there was also a gap there there’ve been things like that. I’ve seen things where there’ve been like, like a, um, a flight SIM flight attack, SIM things. The same thing you’re talking about. [00:16:52] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We’re, we’re honestly, I’ve looked at those and if I was, if I were to see that on talk, I would have no way of even knowing that was from a [00:17:00] game. And I feel like I have a good, I feel like I have a better grasp than most I’m being able to tell those things. And I look at that, I’m like, Nope, there’d be absolutely no way that I would have any idea that that was like computer generated. [00:17:10] And that is to me. What actually makes this war also because of the misinformation element that benefits, uh, Putin, um, and, and also benefits people who are just out for clicks. Uh, and, and for anything else, like it makes this. A different kind of war feels like or different types of, you know, w w w w however, we’re classifying this, this, um, incident. [00:17:37] I mean, I think what would they’ve done is an act of war, but you know what I mean? Like how we’re classifying this, that this event, this feels different. Other things we’ve seen, not in so far, even that it’s televised 24 7 or that the people are, are broadcasting stuff. Cause that’s all accurate. That’s all happened before. [00:17:56] But the fact that there’s now this disinformation element for various [00:18:00] reasons, and that that is happening in a way that it is not easy to ascertain in real time. Like what is real and what is. [00:18:07] Jeff: Totally. And actually, as you talk, I’m realizing, let me just be clear about the guy moving the landmine with a cigarette. [00:18:14] I have no idea if that’s from Ukraine, but that type of footage is sort of what I was like conjuring up. Um, and that’s also just an amazing, uh, little clip of footage. [00:18:24] Brett: Wouldn’t it be crazy if I could segue from this into a sponsor. [00:18:29] Christina: I think you can. I think you can, [00:18:31] Brett: Aye. Aye. I’m not comfortable with it. We’re gonna, we’re gonna wait a little bit. [00:18:35] Christina: Okay. Cause I was just going to say, we could just shut out everything going on in the world. Just like you want to shut out your [00:18:40] Jeff: blinds. Yeah, for [00:18:42] Brett: Oh man. [00:18:44] Christina: see. I did it [00:18:45] Brett: You did. You did do it. [00:18:47] Christina: so well. [00:18:48] Brett: now I feel like now I feel obligated. Do you want to shut out the horrors of the world who doesn’t live, [00:19:00] who doesn’t love to live? well. [00:19:02] Oh my God, this feels wrong. Okay. [00:19:06] Christina: Oh, [00:19:07] Sponsor: Hunter Douglas [00:19:07] Brett: But in all seriousness to be perfectly at ease and comfort and style hunter Douglas can help you do just that with their innovative window shade designs, gorgeous fabrics and control system. [00:19:19] So advanced, it can be scheduled to automatically adjust to their optimal position throughout the day. Perhaps it’s the way the shades diffuse harsh sunlight to cast a beautiful glow across the room. Oh, [00:19:31] man, this is I, or, or being able to enjoy the view outside the window while protecting your privacy inside, maybe it’s a superior superior installation. [00:19:43] The shades provide keeping you warmer in winter cooler in summer and lowering utility bills, or is it simply that Goldilocks moment when you walk into a room and everything about it just looks and feels right. When you tap into hunter Douglas has power view [00:20:00] technology. Your shades can be set to automatically reposition for the perfect balance of light privacy and installation morning, noon, and night. [00:20:09] And yes, this feels like a weird topic right now in the midst of the current conversation, but it is absolutely something I create. And I, and I want all of this to happen for me. I want my lights. I want to use the sunlight and a truly creative, beneficial way to create that Goldilocks moment. So live beautifully with hunter Douglas, enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increase comfort in your home throughout the day. [00:20:40] Visit hunter douglas.com/overtired today for your free style gets smarter design guide with fresh takes creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. That’s hunter douglas.com/ over-tired for your free design guide. [00:20:58] That’s probably going to require a make good [00:20:58] Brett: Okay. [00:21:00] Okay. That, that did feel we. [00:21:02] Christina: Yeah. I [00:21:04] Jeff: like how you spent most of the reads, still trying to convince yourself that this could somehow fit. [00:21:10] Brett: They’re going to, we’re going to have to do a, make good on that read. I’m sure of it. Um, [00:21:18] Jeff: Look at it. Like here’s something for that read. Like the read was sincere, the read was earnest and these times are insane. And, and we absolutely had to figure out how to get from something totally extreme and insane and terrifying into something that is just a part of the drum beat of everyday life. [00:21:36] Right. Like that’s it. You got to do it. [00:21:40] Brett: Is it. [00:21:40] ever weird to you that Matthew has two teeth. [00:21:44] Christina: Yeah, [00:21:44] Jeff: always. [00:21:45] Brett: Shouldn’t that be pronounced Matt Matthew, Matthew. [00:21:48] Christina: Possibly. Yeah. [00:21:50] Brett: Anyway, so my rabbi, uh, ping me on Saturday, I think and said for [00:22:00] the like 50 a times, like you should get an acute. He wants to play games with me and with an Oculus. And I finally, I broke down, so I just went to temple last week and I felt I was feeling, uh, vulnerable to the charms of a rabbi. [00:22:17] And. [00:22:17] Christina: Yeah. [00:22:18] Brett: And so he’s like, you should order an Oculus. And he sent me like his like affiliate link. If, if I order through him, we both get like $30 in free games or whatever. And I was like, fucking fine. Let’s let’s do this. So I have ordered an Oculus. It will be delivered today. I have no idea what I’m getting into. It’s my rabbi’s fall. [00:22:44] Christina: I mean, I do kind of love that, uh, for you, honestly, I feel like that’s, that’s going to be fun. Um, so I’m excited for you for that. [00:22:52] Brett: I gotta say, like, I go, I go, I go to temple where. Where the rabbi, they, they, [00:23:00] 100% accept atheist like, [00:23:02] that is there are members of their congregation that are atheist, and it is an accepted thing that an atheist might find fellowship and community in a Jewish temple. And, and I appreciate that. And every once in a while, I just show up for temple and I find it. [00:23:24] I love the music. I love how they sing everything and semi atonal. I love it. I do [00:23:34] Jeff: Ritual [00:23:34] Christina: man. Yeah. Well, and I mean, and there is, I mean, there’s also like I personally, and this is, I think this is great. It seems like you found a place and you have like a rabbi, you have this with, but like community has been historically a really big part. Uh, you know, fellowship, you know, that that’s the whole, the whole thing. [00:23:52] And so, I mean, that, that is one of the reasons that, that I think that organized religion has been as popular and [00:23:59] Brett: this [00:24:00] it’s just like alcoholics anonymous. Like you go there for the fellowship. That’s that’s what works for people. [00:24:08] Jeff: I’m just adding something to the show notes here, Oculus colon, a rabbi, and a programmer walk into the [00:24:17] Christina: metaverse. Oh, that’s so much better. That’s so much better. [00:24:21] Brett: Rabbi Eric Linder. And I started a podcast a long time ago called a rabbi and an atheist. And I CA I was like discuss apple. And we were, it was a technology podcast with, with a good dose of theology and, and antitheism all built into it. And we recorded like three episodes. I still have them. [00:24:45] It was never published. But, but it did. It always sounded like the beginning of a good joke. [00:24:52] Jeff: Can you tactically, like I know with Oculus, like there are people who COVID. Uh, in sort of a [00:25:00] metaverse like situation using their Oculus calculi. Um, is that something like, is that, is it down the road? Is it going to be people recording podcasts? Like you could throw your Oculus on and you’re all in there. [00:25:13] Yeah, it’s pretty, it’s a pretty basic [00:25:15] Brett: like [00:25:15] Jeff: question. I know. [00:25:16] Brett: vision of the future. I’m sorry. Metta, [00:25:19] Christina: metas. It is definitely met as vision of the future is they’re like, yeah, we’ll all have our, I mean, it’s second life, but like you have a helmet. [00:25:27] Jeff: Yep. Second live with a helmet. Exactly. [00:25:31] Christina: Episode title a [00:25:35] Jeff: second. [00:25:35] Christina: Like. [00:25:36] Brett: Timmy. Um, so yeah. Um, have you guys watch raising Dion? [00:25:47] Christina: No. [00:25:47] Brett: Oh my God. So. Th a new season of raising Dion just came out and I was very excited about it, but I also felt like it was something my girlfriend could [00:26:00] get into. Uh, so we watch the entire first season. Again, we finish it. We’re halfway through the second. season. [00:26:06] Now it’s a story of a kid who gets super powers from his. His deceased father, uh, like before, before he sees deceased, he got super powers, but they were Like. [00:26:21] passed onto him. And like, it’s the story of raising this kid with super powers and No. [00:26:27] one knows exactly what he can do. And, and he’s like discovering them as he goes. [00:26:33] And they, I feel like keep him out of school because who knows who he can hurt with the super powers and. It. Okay. [00:26:40] And here’s the thing I just realized in the last week is the cast is primarily black. Like the show [00:26:50] Christina: I’m looking this up and I’m seeing this. I was like, yeah, this is like a black show. [00:26:53] Brett: The show. [00:26:54] is presented in such a way that I never realized it never dawned [00:27:00] on me that it was an entirely minority cast where white people were. [00:27:06] The minority and like, you don’t, you don’t even, like, it’s not a forefront thing. It’s, it’s kind of amazing. It’s really good. [00:27:19] Jeff: That’s a good cast. I’m just [00:27:20] Christina: looking through it. I was saying I was like looking at it too. Um, [00:27:24] Brett: very hot people in their show, not like vampire [00:27:29] Jeff: wait, so it’s been going on for a while or [00:27:31] Christina: what it [00:27:32] Brett: It, it came out a couple years ago and then I thought Netflix had kind of like. [00:27:38] unofficially canceled it. There just were no new episodes. And then a new season came out all of a sudden. So, and they jumped, they age everyone two years. [00:27:50] Uh, well, at least according to the storyline two years and, and everyone is just that much older. They, they let it, they let there be a [00:28:00] jump in time. It was good. Yeah, it [00:28:03] Christina: Well, yeah, I, it looks like they were renewed in 2020, and then obviously they couldn’t do anything in 2020, so [00:28:10] Brett: they do not address. I do not address the pandemic in the plot line. [00:28:16] Christina: you know, and I, and I appreciate that. [00:28:18] Brett: Yeah, there’s a place for Like, escape as a [00:28:21] Christina: Yeah, exactly. I was also gonna say like that, cause at that point too, like if, if you’re, if you’re going to go along with a concert that like a kid can have super powers that were passed onto him by his now deceased father, if you’re going to like go along with that conceit, then you have to like ask questions. [00:28:35] Like, okay, well, if you. We have these super superpowers. Why weren’t you doing anything during the pandemic? Right. Like you have to, you know what I mean? Like, so, so, so to me, so that takes you out of the reality that you’ve agreed with. So I appreciate not acknowledging the [00:28:52] Brett: her to know? Who [00:28:52] Christina: have at the time jump. [00:28:53] Brett: do you want to know who the real star of the show is? It’s this character named Esperanza and [00:29:00] she is wheelchair bound. I looked up the actress. She, this is her first foray into acting she was born with. I can’t remember the medical name for it, but it’s like the brittle bone disease. [00:29:13] And she was born with like 19 fractures and. They pieced her back together and she spends her life in a wheelchair, but she kills it as this spunky wheelchair bound girl who decides upfront she’s going to be Deon’s best friend. And like, she introduces herself as your best friend. You just don’t know it yet. [00:29:41] And her role in this show is pivotal. And she is an amazing young actor. And I recommend watching the show just to get to know Esperanza. [00:29:55] Christina: Awesome. Okay. All right. I, I. Or would have ever [00:30:00] watched a show like this, just cause like, it seems like a family sort of show, but I’m I’m into it and you’re making it sound good. So also it takes place in Atlanta and it’s not just filmed in Atlanta, which pisses me off because everything’s filmed in Atlanta now. [00:30:12] And yet they, people, they have, like, they don’t acknowledge it and I’m like, okay, I’m looking this up. I’m like, thank [00:30:19] Jeff: you. Half of the Ukraine footage I’m looking at is from Atlanta. [00:30:22] Christina: Honestly, it is. And I can tell that’s the only thing I can tell. Cause like, oh look, look, look at this bully. I’m like, that’s the fucking Coke building. [00:30:29] Shut up. [00:30:30] Brett: Here’s the thing is it is a family show and I was happy to recommend it to my parents as well, but I. So our TV watching lately has been very vampire centric. I am currently watching the originals, uh, discovery of witches and the vampire diaries. All at the same time, [00:30:57] Christina: Okay. All right. So the vampire diaries is going to [00:31:00] get real bad. At a certain point and you’re not going to want to finish it. I’m just going to tell you that right now. [00:31:04] Brett: I am already on the fence with the vampire died. However, I’m very into the originals. I can do the originals and, and, and discovery, which is the only thing I don’t like about discovery of witches is that they whisper the whole fucking time. And I have to turn on subtitles to figure out what’s happening. [00:31:26] Christina: So, so the only thing you haven’t added to this, and I’m just going to mention it just because it had kind of a resurgence in pop culture last year, like. Why are you not watching the Mormon vampires? Why did you not watch the Twilight saga? Why have you not watched that? Huh? [00:31:40] Jeff: Huh? Hi answer. Don’t just stay in there. [00:31:44] I [00:31:44] Christina: love that. [00:31:45] Brett: Okay. So I have never been attracted to vampire fiction. Like it just holds no, uh, gravitation for me. So I’m, I’m watching all of this at, at [00:32:00] my girlfriend’s behest. [00:32:02] Christina: Right. So my point is, why are you not watching the Twilight films? [00:32:06] Brett: I don’t know. I will admit, I do find Chris and Stewart attractive. [00:32:12] Christina: Well, and, and, and, and, and he is super hot and, and he’s super hot [00:32:17] Brett: you say he do you mean. [00:32:19] Christina: Yes. I mean, I mean our paths, I mean, that end. Yes. [00:32:25] Brett: Okay. Like, I, I can get into attractive people. That’s fine. I [00:32:29] Christina: I mean. [00:32:30] Brett: this built up this buildup of version. It’s the same reason. I’ve never seen legends of the fall as hot as I consider Brad Pitt, that movie made so many people swollen that I just instinctively avoided. [00:32:47] Christina: Well, I mean, look, and I want to be very clear. The Twilight films are not good, but there is something that’s culturally like, but, but, but the vampire diaries is not good. Um, I, and, and like, you know what I mean? But there’s something [00:33:00] about them I think is about. that enough time has passed, that we can kind of appreciate them in like a, it almost ironic sense. [00:33:08] Like during pandemic, a lot of, like, I had like a number of like my married, like adult friends who were like, we’re watching the Twilight movies and I was like, yeah. Okay. I can, I can actually kind of see that at this point. Um, I, uh, the, the first time I ever went to Comicon was the first year that Twilight was there and holy shit. [00:33:28] Brett: Which Comicon. [00:33:30] Christina: Uh, 2009 and it was, um, San Diego, Comic-Con sorry. Uh, th th th th the Comic-Con and, and holy sh. Yeah. [00:33:40] Brett: rest of you. You Chicago people are fucking, [00:33:43] Christina: uh, no, nothing else compares, honestly, it’s like, not even the same universe and, and holy shit, like, like Holly H, which is like the biggest hall where, you know, all, all the fanboys, everybody gathered. [00:33:57] Teenage girls started getting there like four [00:34:00] days early, like as early as you could possibly get there. And, and, and it was, I’ve never seen more people in my life. It was honestly kind of scary. Like I w I w I would have been scared by where the actors, like, genuinely, like, I would have actually been like, worried, like if they could have had production or not, like, it was the most insane thing I’ve ever seen in my life. [00:34:16] And to this day, like people kind of part point that as like the marker, like of when like Comicon became. Absolutely batshit insane and like went super mainstream and it’s because the teen girls showed up, which honestly love that for them. Right. I love that. [00:34:30] Brett: like that’s the Taylor swift story. [00:34:33] Christina: 100%, but like they completely, but yeah, they like completely invaded like this very anti female space. Like, let’s be very real and, and completely like, took it over, like in a level that like how fanboyed all of like the dudes, which is also like the, the, the Taylor swift story. Um, and, uh, but yeah, uh, I, that was like, For a long time. [00:34:57] I had a hard time kind of even [00:35:00] ever watching any of that stuff. Just be, Hey, cause it’s not that good. And B um, I just had like PTSD, like flashbacks of being, because the interesting thing with the San Diego Comic-Con press does not get any special access. Um, unless you were moderating a panel. You are having to do the same shit that everybody else does. [00:35:22] And that means that if you want to be at those panels and do that stuff, you have to fight. And, you know, like, like sand tall with like the same freaking fans who will be willed out and stretchers and girls were because they like, because of, of, uh, you know, standing up too long and he exhausted and all that. [00:35:42] Jeff: Oh man. Hey, so, okay. I, something I want to say about a found papers did either of you see the Jim Jarmusch movie only lovers left alive, which is a, um, vampire movie. [00:35:54] Brett: No. [00:35:55] Jeff: I didn’t, but, um, [00:35:56] Brett: Didn’t He also do the one more recently with, [00:36:00] uh, [00:36:00] Jeff: He did a zombie movie and Iggy pop as a zombie and he, and he hates the zombies. Then I just wanted to read this quote because I just played the zombie movie. [00:36:08] Um, the dead don’t die for my youngest son who loved it. And I was looking up, I was like, I didn’t read any interviews that Jim Jeremy’s around this and he has this great line about vampires versus some, he says, I’m not a zombie fan. I’m more of a vampire guy. They’re complicated. They’re sexual, they’re smart. [00:36:25] They have difficult things they need to do to survive. They’re shape-shifters now there are bad. Now they’re a Wolf. They’re fucking cool. What’s cool. About a zombie they’re lifeless forms. They’re soulless human aides. Humanoids. They’re an excuse. [00:36:38] Brett: Oh, my God, You have. [00:36:40] set up the segue from vampire fiction to the walking dead beautifully. We should throw in a sponsor here while we’re on an upswing. [00:36:51] Christina: Yeah, I was going to say actually that I was, I was thinking of that same thing. I was like, okay, now we have to talk about the walking dead. But before we do that, [00:37:00] [00:37:00] Sponsor: Mint Mobile [00:37:00] Christina: Um, you know, if saving more and spending less is one of your top goals for 20, 22, along with catching up on the Twilight saga and other vampire stuff, or figuring out why you’re still watching the walking dead. [00:37:13] Well then why are you still paying insane amounts of. Every month for wireless switching to mint, mobile is the easiest way to save this year. And as the first company to sell premium wireless service online only, but mobile lets you maximize your savings with plans starting at just $15 a month. And, and Brett, I know that you’ve been enjoying, uh, that mobile in your journey with that, right? [00:37:35] Brett: Yes, now that I have switched. So like, I don’t make new year’s resolutions. That, that to me, that that’s some bullshit. I did want to save money this year because I finally make enough money in my day job that I can actually save some things. So I’m kind of obsessed with saving more and going from my [00:38:00] hundred plus dollar a month, bill to 15 bucks a month has felt like exactly. [00:38:06] And I am. I’m a happy mint, mobile customer. Uh, I will continue to be a met mobile customer, all the coverage of T-Mobile, uh, 5g and yes, I’m loving it. [00:38:18] Christina: That’s awesome. For people looking for extra savings this year mint mobile offers premium wireless for just $15 a month. So by going online only and eliminating the traditional costs of retail, Mitt mobile pass a significant savings on to you. Yes, that’s right. You and all plans come with unlimited. [00:38:37] Texts plus high-speed data delivered on the nation’s largest 5g network. And you can use your own phone with any mint mobile plan, and you can keep your same phone number along with all your existing contacts. And so with mobile, you can choose the amount of monthly data that’s right for you, and you can stop paying for data that you never use. [00:38:55] So to get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month and get the plan shipped [00:39:00] to your door for free, go to mint, mobile.com/overtired. Mint mobile.com/overtired. You can cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mint mobile.com/overtired. [00:39:15] Speaking of data you never use [00:39:15] Brett: Speaking of data you never use, [00:39:18] Christina: Yeah. [00:39:18] Brett: you know, so the weird, the weird difference between, okay, not weird. The obvious difference between vampires and zombies. His agency [00:39:31] Christina: Ooh. Yeah. No. Well, okay. Well agency and so far as I guess, [00:39:38] Brett: are very in control [00:39:40] Christina: well, they are. [00:39:41] Brett: immortality. [00:39:43] Christina: Well, yes and no, right? Like they are, but at the same time, like you don’t choose to, well, unless you’re like Bella in, in the Twilight novels, like you don’t choose to become [00:39:52] Brett: No, there are all these cases of someone asking to be turned. [00:39:56] Christina: Okay. Sure. But, okay. Fair enough. [00:39:59] Brett: the [00:40:00] mythology. That’s what I’ve learned is every vampire show has a different like [00:40:05] Christina: I everyday Meyer’s show has like a different girl that wants to flock and is like, go ahead and turn me by my neck. Yeah. [00:40:12] Brett: but then you’ve got zombies who are just turned by, you know, a virus or whatever, based on that mythology. [00:40:20] Christina: Right. And, and then they don’t have the same agency. I think it is. Does it feel to you like, to me it feels like, okay, if you get turned in your vampire, like you still have your brain, but like, if you’re a zombie, like you basically like, [00:40:32] Brett: you’re a mindless [00:40:33] Christina: yeah, exactly. [00:40:34] Brett: zombie, if you will. Okay. [00:40:37] Christina: I see what you did there. [00:40:38] Jeff: Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Well done. Well done. You are, you are just like walking dead. [00:40:45] Brett: So, yeah, [00:40:45] Jeff: what you’re trying to say? [00:40:46] Brett: the epitome of zombie fiction became the walking dead. And I know that Jeff, it was actually a pretty recent thing for you. Wasn’t it? That you started watching the [00:40:58] Christina: Yeah. Yeah. [00:40:59] Jeff: And [00:41:00] when it comes to TV, always late to the party, when it comes to actual parties, always early to leave. [00:41:09] Um, yeah, I came to it late. I, you know, it was about maybe six months ago. It’s like, ah, I’ll try it. I was going through this whole thing where for the longest time, like I tend to not pursue shows where like a kid is killed in the first episode. Not, it just became weirder for me when I had kids. And I also just feel like from a storytelling perspective, it’s like, You got to work a little harder to get me in. [00:41:31] Right. It’s like, I also now just like will not watch a show where like there’s a rape scene in the first episode. I mean, like, you can do it in the second episode and I’ll still turn it off. But like, if it’s written by a man directed by a man and there’s like some rape or rapey scene in the first episode, I’m just like, fuck off, fuck off like that. [00:41:47] Like I’m not your monkey. Um, [00:41:50] Brett: are especially. [00:41:51] Jeff: Yeah, and yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And that’s, that’s really chilled out. I think the last show I can think of that did that was the Americans, but anyway, [00:42:00] um, yeah, Thrones. Oh yeah. Game of Thrones [00:42:02] Christina: in the first. Yeah. The first couple of seasons was just like [00:42:05] Jeff: first couple of seasons for sure. [00:42:07] What about the first episode? [00:42:09] Christina: Oh, yeah. So game of [00:42:11] Jeff: Thrones was killing a bunch of kids in the first episode, [00:42:13] Christina: probably wasn’t Americans. Yeah. But the thing is I’ll always [00:42:16] Jeff: overcome. I’ll always overcome killing children. That’s the weird thing about me. Um, and so I finally overcame it and I started watching the walking dead and I really loved it for a few seasons and I did not. [00:42:27] I made a point of. Looking at anything about the show online? Cause I didn’t want spoilers cause I still was under the impression from a couple of friends that it’s pretty good throughout. So I’m like, alright cool. I just got to stay away from this, which isn’t too hard because this is like a bazillion years old and everyone’s over it. [00:42:44] Um, and then it started to suck and, and unfortunately the difference between binge watching something and watching something over years as a fan is that like I am more. Likely to hate watch, um, rather than just put it down. [00:43:00] And [00:43:00] Brett: is so, easy with the [00:43:01] Jeff: so, so I am somebody, I am somebody who has an eye. I’m not proud of this. [00:43:06] Uh, I am somebody who has watched the walking dead from season one. Well, I can’t get through the last two episodes, but I’m trying, uh, all in a row with like a one month break. And that’s probably why I’m so fucking tired of it, but it really highlights the way in which it’s just like, when did you stop giving a shit about telling a story? [00:43:27] It’s like so incredible. Like, I don’t even know what these new episodes do. You know, what’s taking you four sittings to watch each episode of the, of the latest season. And [00:43:36] Brett: I don’t think I ever [00:43:37] Jeff: off. [00:43:38] Brett: it. [00:43:39] Christina: Oh, yeah, no, I stopped years ago. And then, and then when I was doing in lieu of that for years, and it’s been at least six years now, as I was reading , um, IO nine, um, reviews, uh, because he hate washes it and has been hate covering it for. [00:43:54] Forever. And, and, and I used to work together. And so I, I like read his stuff cause I just [00:44:00] like, you know, given up on, on the other stuff, I was then into return of the walking dead for a while. Yep. Um, [00:44:07] Jeff: oh you mean the wait, are you talking about [00:44:08] Christina: fear of the wall if you’re walking into the radio? Sorry, sorry. [00:44:11] Sorry. [00:44:11] Jeff: I did that for four or five seasons and then got [00:44:13] Christina: mad. Yep, exactly. And I’m like, I’m like. Very good acting actually. And, and, [00:44:21] Brett: well, I mean, to be. [00:44:22] Christina: and, the actress who plays Alecia’s super, super hot, [00:44:24] Brett: The walking, the walking dead was one of the most compelling shows on TV for, I would say four or five seasons. I was entirely invested, but [00:44:38] it got to the point where it was so stressful to make it through a season that I, I just couldn’t any. [00:44:44] Christina: Didn’t you cut out at Meagan? [00:44:46] Brett: Uh, I cut out the season after like, Okay. [00:44:49] So when I left the walking dead Nagin was in prison in it, like it was being kept in like a seller [00:45:00] prison cell and he escaped at some point. And that’s the last thing I remember. [00:45:05] Jeff: Got it. Got it. Yeah. What about you Christina? Like how did what’s your watching history? You, so you’ve watched a little of fear, the walking dead. How much of walking [00:45:15] Christina: dead did you watch? I don’t know. I probably stopped like five years ago. Um, and then I just read the recap and I don’t remember what happened. [00:45:21] Like. I would have to go back in and see, and then it’s hard for me to, because I’ve read stuff. And so I don’t know. It’s hard to remember, like when I stopped, but I watched intensely for like the first, you know, like for, for a good while. And then it was just like too much of a slog. And then also when you’re not binging it, and you have to, you know, kind of make the commitment. [00:45:44] That was when, like a lot of really good TV started coming out. So at which at one point the walking dead was part of. Right. But then I was just like, I have other things I can watch. I don’t have to watch this. So yeah. [00:45:56] Jeff: As we’re talking, I realized that the real problem I’m having with [00:46:00] wanting to talk about the walking dead is that I have all of these. [00:46:03] Things, I want to say that are wrong with it. That nobody gives a shit about because nobody’s been watching it for like years and years. And they’re like, dude, how long have you been asleep? Like, but can I just say my number one, the number one thing that pisses me off so much about that show is that having watched it all in a row there utter failure to create a sense of. [00:46:25] The landscape for me, like this place is this far from this place, this place is north and west of this place. Like this is where they are right now when they’re walking down the like million dirt road with woods. And by the way, the second they do this one shot, then the zombie is going to be here. Like it’s like, I feel like such a missed opportunity because landscape is so. [00:46:49] Um, so much a part of how they experienced their life in those days. Like I was like, I, and I actually don’t, I don’t in my mind have a good example. This turns into a more interesting [00:47:00] question than it is a critique. I don’t have a good example that comes to mind about. About a show, especially, or even a movie creating a really clear sense, um, of, of where you are. [00:47:12] Except maybe as I talk, I see those incredible overhead shots in the first season of true detective, um, where I feel like they did a lot of showing you right where you are. [00:47:23] Brett: season of shooting [00:47:24] Christina: Yeah. [00:47:25] Jeff: The third one was good too. The second one was [00:47:27] Brett: I think I gave up after the second one. [00:47:30] Jeff: Oh, you rightly so. But the third is fantastic for me. At least I thought it was fantastic. [00:47:34] Brett: All right. [00:47:35] Jeff: The second one is shit. And that guy is, is a piece of shit. The guy who wrote it [00:47:39] Brett: We got to talk about the center sometime. [00:47:42] Christina: Yeah, we do. The center was really good. Um, also I, I have to run in like three minutes. Okay. [00:47:48] Jeff: And you folks have been so nice because not only have you had me on three times for you even entertained my walking dead topic, which I realized halfway through, I had no right. [00:47:56] Bringing to any. [00:47:57] Christina: No, I don’t think no, but [00:48:00] honestly we’ve all been there. Like, look, Brett has Brett is discovering the brand fire diaries and, uh, you know, like, look, it, it is like, it is like 2012, um, in both of your lives, which I’m a big fan of, uh, the great year for me. So I, I, uh, you know, it’s so yeah. [00:48:19] Brett: Can I just, [00:48:20] Christina: for that. [00:48:20] Brett: can I just point out that in our show notes, I am able to type bang, like exclamation point IMD. Raising Dion highlight it, hit a shortcut key and get a markdown link to the IMD B link for raising Dion and search link is honestly the most useful tool I’ve ever [00:48:44] Christina: Oh, man. Have you ever [00:48:45] Jeff: heard of Brett [00:48:46] Christina: Terpstra? Yeah, I was going to say he loves shit. [00:48:49] Jeff: That’s a total Brent turf. [00:48:51] Christina: I was going to say, I mean, you basically built that IMDP thing. I think originally for me, um, I, [00:48:59] Brett: It is, it [00:49:00] is based on my early texts, a text mate bundles that I built. [00:49:05] Christina: Yeah. One of them would, the IMDP thing was built for me. So I very much appreciate that. [00:49:12] Brett: All right. Well, Hey guys. Thanks for joining us, [00:49:17] Jeff: Thank you for having me. I’m literally going to get some sleep down. [00:49:20] Brett: Thanks. Thanks for showing up at six in the middle. [00:49:22] Christina: Yeah. [00:49:23] Jeff: So my God [00:49:24] Christina: amazing. Yes. Now I’m off to my next podcast. I wish I was joking. [00:49:29] Jeff: Good luck. [00:49:29] Christina: Good luck. [00:49:31] Brett: Hey guys, Get some sleep. [00:49:33] Christina: Get some sleep. Get some sleep.

The stunning conclusion of the Jeff Severns Guntzel saga. Less stunning than nerdy, really, from dotfiles to keyboard shortcuts. But also Real World Homecoming. Sponsor ZocDoc lets you choose a doctor using real patient ratings, and book appointments (live or telehealth) in minutes. No more waiting on hold. Take your healthcare seriously and visit zocdoc.com/OVERTIRED Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. Show Links Jeff Severns Guntzel on Systematic The Real World The Real World Homecoming TikTok Water Asshole DotBot Patrick McDonald on dotfiles Mackup Homebrew Homebrew Bundle fuzzy_cd for OMF Fish shell 1Password for SSH 1Password Electron Decision KeyBindings Cheat Sheet for Dash Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

Jeff Severns Guntzel joins the ADHD party to discuss the 90s, and more nerding out than is probably healthy in an hour. Which is why we split it into two. Stay tuned next week for the thrilling conclusion. Sponsor SimpliSafe has everything you need to keep your home safe—from entry and motion sensors to indoor and outdoor cameras. Visit simplisafe.com/overtired and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive Monitoring. Stop paying crazy wireless bills and switch to Mint Mobile. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, and get the plan shipped to your door for FREE, go to mintmobile.com/overtired. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Chuck Klosterman The Nineties NYT Chuck Klosterman Rewinds to ‘The Nineties’ Reality Bites 1991 album releases Pam and Tommy Prosthetics, Animatronics, CGI and Jason Mantzoukas: How ‘Pam & Tommy’ Made a Penis Talk and Shimmy Pam and Tommy: The Untold Story of the World’s Most Infamous Sex Tape New York Times book review that mentions Red Shoe Diaries Sebastian Bach Sebastian Bach t-shirt controversy Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.

Spotify, Jon Stewart, Tech, and TV. That’s what you came for, right? Sponsor Live Beautifully with Hunter Douglas – enjoying greater convenience, enhanced style and increased comfort in your home throughout the day. Visit hunterdouglas.com/OVERTIRED for your free Style Gets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows. TextExpander: The tool your hosts wouldn’t want to live without. Save time typing on Mac, Windows, iOS, and the web. Overtired listeners can save 20% on their first year by visiting TextExpander.com. Show Links Joe Rogan responds to Spotify protest The Problem with Jon Stewart podcast What if I use G-Suite Legacy Free Edition… 9 to 5 Google – G-Suite legacy free edition RonAmadeo on Twitter Single Drunk Female After life Teleport for Mac Barrier Join the Community See you on Discord! Thanks! You’re downloading today’s show from CacheFly’s network BackBeat Media Podcast Network Check out more episodes at overtiredpod.com and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast app. Find Brett as @ttscoff and Christina as @film_girl, and follow Overtired at @ovrtrd on Twitter.