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Keith discusses the impact of political rhetoric on mortgage rates, emphasizing the importance of central bank independence.   President of Ridge Lending Group and GRE Icon, Caeli Ridge, joins in to explain the benefits of 30-year mortgages over 15-year ones, advocating for extra principal payments to be reinvested rather than accelerating loan payoff.  They also cover the potential effects of Fannie and Freddie going public, predicting higher mortgage rates. Caeli Ridge elaborates on cross-collateralization strategies, highlighting the advantages of commercial blanket loans for real estate investors.  Resources: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/568 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the President has called the Fed chair a dummy and worse. How does this all affect the future of mortgage rates? Also, I discuss 30 year versus 15 year loans. Can you bundle multiple properties into one loan? Then how Fannie and Freddie going public could permanently increase mortgage rates today on get rich education   Keith Weinhold  0:28   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:24   Welcome to GRE from Pawtucket, Rhode Island to Poughkeepsie, New York and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm your host. Keith weinholdin, this is get rich education, not to inflate a sense of self importance, but each episode is an even bigger deal than a New York Jets preseason football game. You might have thought you knew real estate until you listened to this show, from street speak to geek speak. I use it all to break down how with investment property, you don't have to live below your means. You can grow your means as we're discussing the mortgage landscape this week. You know, I recently had a bundle of my own single family rental homes transfer mortgage servicers from Wells Fargo over to Mr. Cooper. And that was easy. I didn't have to do anything. The automatic payments just automatically transferred over. And yes, Mr. Cooper, it's sort of a funny sounding name that you don't exactly see them putting the naming rights on stadiums out there, but the new servicer prominently wanted to point out the effect of me making extra $100 monthly principal payments and how much in interest that would save me over time, sort of suggesting that it would be a good idea for me to do so. Oh, as you know, like I've discussed extensively, extra principal pay down is a really poor use of your capital. It's a lot like how in the past, now you've probably seen it like I have, your mortgage company promotes you making bi weekly payments all year, so you'd effectively make some extra principal pay down each year. That way. Don't fall for it. Banks promote biweekly payments because it sounds borrower friendly, it encourages an earlier loan payoff. Well, that actually reduces lender risk and increases your risk. And the whole program can come with extra fees too. It just ties up more of your money in something that's unsafe, illiquid, and with a rate of return that's always zero, since that's exactly what home equity is. As we're about to talk mortgages with an expert today, I will be sure to surface that topic. We'll also talk about the housing market effect of a president firing a Fed chair. When you're living under the rule of a president that desperately and passionately wants lower interest rates, you've got to wonder what would happen if a president just had the power to go lower them himself, which is actually what most any president would want to do, but you almost don't have to wonder what would happen. You can just look at what actually did happen in Turkey. Now, yes, Turkey already did have an inflation problem, worse than us, for sure, but Turkish President Erdogan went ahead and lowered Turkey's interest rates despite persistent inflation. I mean, that's a situation where most would raise rates in order to combat inflation. Well, lowering rates like that soon resulted in substantially higher inflation to the tune of almost 60. Yes, six 0% per year before cooler heads prevailed and the Turkish government was forced to drastically raise rates. But it was too late. The damage was already done to the reputation of Turkey's economy and its everyday citizens and consumers. I mean, that was a painful, real world example of how critical central bank independence is. You've also got to ask yourself a question here, do you really want to live in the type of economy where we would need a bunch of rate cuts? Because when rate cuts happen, it usually results from the fact that people are no longer employed, or we're in a recession, or financial markets are really unstable. So there are certainly worse maladies out there than where we are today, which is with moderate inflation, pretty strong employment and interest rates that are actually a little below historic levels. I mean, that is not so bad. Before we talk both long term mortgage lessons and more nascent mortgage trends today coming up on future episodes of the show here, a lot of info and resources to help you build wealth as usual. Also an A E TELEVISION star of a real estate reality show will make his debut here on GRE.    Keith Weinhold  6:24   Hey, do you like or even live by any of the enduring GRE mantras, like, Don't live below your means, grow your means, or financially free, beats debt free, or even, don't quit your Daydream. Check out our shop. You can own merch with sayings like that on them, or simply with our GRE logo on shirts and hats and mugs. And I don't really make any income from it. The merch is sold at near cost, and it actually took a fair bit of our team's time to put that together for you. So check out the GRE merch. You can find it at shop.getricheducation.com that's shop.getricheducation.com   Keith Weinhold  7:18   today we're talking to the longtime president of ridge lending group. They specialize in providing income property loans to real estate investors like you, and she's also a long time real estate investor herself. I've shared with you before that ridge is where I get my own loans. They've worked with 10s of 1000s of real estate investors, not just primary residence owners, but real estate investors as well as homeowners all over the country, and at this point, she's like a GRE icon, a fixture regularly with us since 2015 Hey, welcome back to get rich education the inimitable Chaley Ridge,    Caeli Ridge  7:54   ooh, Mr. Keith Weinhold, thank you, sir. So good to see you, my friend. Thanks for having me   Keith Weinhold  8:00   opening up that thesaurus tab right about now, I think maybe JAYLEE, why don't we have the chat everyone wants to have? Let's discuss interest rates, starting with the vitriol from Trump to Powell has reached new heights. This year, Trump has called Powell a numbskull, Mr. Too late, a real dummy, a complete moron, a fool and a major loser, among other names. And you know, at times, I've seen Realtors even blasting Jerome Powell for not cutting rates. Well, the Fed doesn't directly control mortgage rates, and it's also not the Fed's job to boost Realtors summer sales. It's to protect the long term stability of the US economy. Tell us your thoughts.    Caeli Ridge  8:48   So this is a rather complicated topic, okay, and there's a lot that under the hood that goes into how a long term mortgage bond interest rate is going to go up or going to go down. As you said, it's not necessarily just the Fed and the fed fund rate, which, by the way, for those that are not familiar with this, the fed fund rate is the intra daily trading rate between banks. So while there is a connection between that and that of the 30 year long term fixed rate mortgage, they are not the same thing. And in fact, statistically, I believe I read this last week, the last three fed fund rate reductions did the opposite to long term rates, right? So we went the other direction. So please be clear that the viral, as you say, of President Trump and what his opinions are about Mr. Powell and his decisions to keep that fed fund rate unchanged for the last several meetings that they've had, I think, is more of a distraction, but that's another conversation overall. I would say that, is he too late? Is he right on time? You know, there's so much data and so many data points that they're looking at, and there's this thing in the industry called a Lag that, in truth, they're not getting the actual data points that they need real time. It's lagging, so the data that's coming out to them today isn't going to be what's relevant and necessary to make changes tomorrow, next month and next week. Most recently, you probably saw in the news the BLS Bureau of Labor and Statistics and the jobs report came in far under what the expectation was. So that might have been the catalyst. I think that will drive Powell and group to reduce that is the overwhelming expectation that the fed fund rate is going to come down by how much. We don't know. Secondary markets are already baking that in, by the way. So when we talk about long term interest rates, I'm starting to see some changes on the day to day. I get access to that stuff, and I'm looking at it daily, the ticker tape of where the treasury bonds and things are. So I'm starting to see some slight improvement to interest rates in preparation of that market expectation, interest rate on the fed fund level will probably reduce. But I think overall, Keith that the Fed is in a really difficult position, because when you think about what really is going to drive the fed fund rate, and then potentially the long term rate, is counterintuitive to what most people or consumers expect, right? They think if the fed fund rate reduces by a quarter of a percentage point, then a long term 30 year fixed should probably reduce by the same amount. It does not go hand in hand like that. Now, while there are trends right, that doesn't happen that way, and more often than not, the worse our economy is doing, the better a 30 year interest rate will be. So in my industry, I'm kind of always playing on the fence, thinking I don't want anything bad for our country and the economy. However, the worse it does, the better interest rates are going to become. And if you've been paying attention, the economy is in decent shape. We're not doing that bad. Inflation is still up, so the metrics that they're using to kind of gage and predict that lag and where we're going to be are not in line to say that interest rates are going to drop a half or a point or a point and a half in the next year to 18 months. Those signs are not out there for me. All of that said, I know that interest rate is top of mind for I mean, I'm on the phone all day long. I like that part of my job where I'm still interfacing with investors on day to day. Big chunk of my day is spent talking to clients, and that is one of the top questions, probably one of the first questions that come out of their mouth, where interest rates? What are interest rates? And what I have sort of started to really form and say to that question is, if interest rates are the catalyst to your success in real estate, you probably need to do a little bit more research, because interest rates should not be the make or break for your success. Well, as a real estate investor   Keith Weinhold  12:45   the Fed has a dual mandate of maximum employment and stable prices. Inflation, though still somewhat elevated, has stayed about the same the past few months. History shows us that the Fed is more comfortable with inflation floating up than they are with suppressed employment levels. To your point about recent reports about us not adding many jobs, and the Fed being concerned about that, the translation for those that don't know is, if the job market is weak, lowering rates, which is what increasingly people think they tend to do later this year. Lowering rates helps encourage businesses. It's more likely that businesses will borrow and expand and hire more people. Therefore, if rates are low now, whether that translates into a lower mortgage rate or not, by lowering that fed funds rate? Yes, there is that positive correlation. Generally, the lower the Fed funds rate goes, the lower mortgage rates tend to go although that isn't always the case. To your point. Shailene, late last year, there were three Fed funds rate cuts, and mortgage rates actually went up, which is somewhat of an aberration that usually doesn't happen that way, but that's the environment we're in. Most people think Fed rate cuts are coming later this year.   Caeli Ridge  14:04   Yeah. And I would say, you know, the other thing too, when we talk about the pressure that the Fed is under right now, specifically, Powell, he's being attacked, fine, and whether I agree or disagree, really important for listeners to understand that the indifference that the Fed is supposed to have right bipartisan, it's not supposed to have a dog in that fight. If it did the calamity, I think what would happen economically in this country would be devastating if other economic powers were to see that our particular financial institutions are swayed one way or another. Politically, that would be devastating to us. So I think Powell has done a decent job at staying the course. He's continued to do what he says, says what he does. So so far, I'm okay. Is he late to reduce rates? I don't know that I'm qualified to say that, maybe. But at the same time, I think that his impartiality has been consistent, and that for that part of it, I'm. Grateful   Keith Weinhold  15:00   for those who don't understand if Trump just told Powell what to do and Powell followed Trump's orders, how does that devastate the economy?    Caeli Ridge  15:09   It shows partiality to or Fieldy to one particular party, right? It's not an independent institution where financial policy quantitative easing, quantitative tightening, all of those different things that are necessary to keep the pistons pumping. It isn't it's very specific to Fieldy and the leader of telling based on potentially ego or other elements that have not a lot to do with fiduciary responsibility.   Keith Weinhold  15:37   If Powell did everything Trump said, I feel like we would have negative interest rates right now   Caeli Ridge  15:43   that could be a problem, especially if the economy and inflation is on the rise, and then you get the tariffs. I mean, there's so much layering to this. I mean, we could go on and on about it, but overall, let me close with this. I think that interest rates are probably on the run, if I had to guess. Now, there's all kinds of variables that could make that statement untrue, but overall, in the next year to two years, I do think we'll see some relief in interest rates, barring any major catastrophe. But again, investors, if your success, if you're tying your real estate portfolio, your real estate investing, whatever modality you're interested in, if you're tying that to an interest rate, and there's a certain number that you have ethereal in your mind, you're going to lose your success in real estate. Interest rate is a component of it, but it should not be tied to your success or failure. You should be able to do the math and look at the differences in real estate opportunities, investment, whether it be long term, short term, midterm, single family, two to four appreciation, cash flow, all those things should be considered, and you will find adequate returns independent of an interest rate. If you're diversifying that way   Keith Weinhold  16:49   there is more evidence that Americans have warmed up and gotten somewhat used to normal mortgage rates. This normalization of mortgage rates, they are pretty close to their historic norms. In fact, a recent housing sentiment survey done by turbo home found that in q1 of this year, 41% of homeowners surveyed said that a 6% mortgage rate was the highest they would accept on their next purchase. Right that was back in q1 today, up from 41%, 52% of respondents now say a 6% mortgage rate is the highest that they would accept. Evidence that people are warming up and normalizing this.   Caeli Ridge  17:30   The other thing too is the pandemic rates. Right? That's been a very hard shell to crack. The people that got these two and 3% interest rates during 2020 2021, part of 22 they're really reticent to let those go, and I think that they're doing themselves a disservice as a result. If you can get a second lean HELOC, okay, fine, but overall, if you're just going to let that untapped equity sit, it's going to be to your disadvantage. If you have any desire to increase your portfolio and your long term financial stability and wealth   Keith Weinhold  17:59   you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is Ridge lending Group President Cheley, Ridge much more when we come back, including 30 year versus 15 year loans. Which one is better and more things that the administration is doing to shake up the mortgage market. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.    Keith Weinhold  18:15   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Cheley Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  18:46   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing. Check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866,   Rick Sharga  19:58   this is Rick sharga housing market. Intelligence Analyst, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:05   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. We're talking with a familiar guest this week. That's Ridge lending Group President, Caeli. Ridge wealth is built through compound leverage faster than compound interest. And leverage means using loans. I think most everyone the first time in their life they look at loan amortization tables and learn things like, oh, with a 15 year loan, you pay substantially less interest, perhaps hundreds of 1000s of dollars less interest with a 15 year loan and its lower mortgage rate than you do with a 30 year loan and its higher mortgage rate. But a lot of people don't take that next step and look that Oh, rather than paying down my home loan with extra principal payments, if I just invested the difference, I would be substantially better off down the road. So in a lot of cases, the more sophisticated investor chooses that longer loan duration, the 30 year. That's the way I see it. What do you see? Most of your prefer there.   Caeli Ridge  21:12   It's one of my favorite topics to cover, because there's quite a few layers that I think can all connect. If an individual wants to pay less in interest very easily, I'm going to strenuously advise them to take a 30 year over a 15 year and just simply apply the difference. So let's just start with the applicable version of 15 versus 30 and how it can benefit or harm. Because this is what a lot of times people that go for the 15 year and wanting to pay less in interest. Don't understand, and it's never been delivered to them in a reasonable way, I guess. So just looking at those two, and then we'll get to the strategy of potentially reinvesting those dollars elsewhere. But just look at a 30 year and a 15 year. I am a massive deterrent against a shorter term amortization. I hate a shorter term amortization, because all that's going to do to the individual is limit their ability to qualify later on down the road. And the reason for that is, is that the shorter term, as you had described, is going to yield a higher monthly payment. So when we pull credit for an individual, that's a higher monthly payment that the debt to income ratio has to support, when in fact, if we simply just look at the two side by side, 15 year and a 30 year equal, equal loan sizes. The 15 year is going to have a lower interest rate. It's true, but the amortization is obviously half the amount. We've gone from 360 months, 30 years to 180 months, 15 years. So the payment obviously is going to be much, much higher if you take the payment difference between those two mortgage products and apply it with a 30 year fixed payment. Let's just call it 500 bucks a month, whatever the number is, and you are disciplined to send that extra 500 bucks every single month with your 30 year fixed mortgage payment. You will cross the finish line in 15.4 years, I think, is the average when you run the amortization, so you'll pay a few extra months worth of interest, but whatever, you'll never pay the higher interest that the 30 year has locked at because you've accelerated the payoff of the debt so quickly, and you've maximized your debt to income ratio and future qualifications never take the shorter term amortization. It is to your greatest disadvantage. I hate them. That's part one. Did you have a comment? I can see that your wheels are spinning.   Keith Weinhold  23:24   That is a great answer. If you get the 30 year loan instead of the 15 if you apply an extra principal payment, whatever it would be, call it 500 plus dollars, that you will kill off that loan, that 30 year loan in something like 15.4 years. Yes, and you'll have the lower payment amount for your qualification, going forward, you'll have more flexibility in your life. That's great. I didn't realize the difference 15.4 versus 15 was that small? That's a great takeaway.   Caeli Ridge  23:50   Yeah, absolutely. And the other piece, you kind of just hit on it, the individual's feet are not held to the fire at that higher payment. So let's say it's a rental, okay, whatever. It goes vacant for a month, or a couple months, God forbid, or whatever may be happening. You now get to choose. You are not obligated at that higher monthly payment. You can say, Okay, this month, I'm not going to pay the extra. I don't da, da, da. It's all within your control. So you're killing like four birds with one stone. I really prefer the 30 year amortization for all those reasons. So now let's take it and move into how I believe, and I agree with your philosophy, taking those dollars and applying them, because when we talk about mortgage interest, especially on investment property, okay, it's probably a slightly different conversation when we're talking about somebody's primary residence, home, but for an investment property to take that difference and apply it toward another investment, because the interest remember, you guys, we're investors. We want that Schedule E deduction, that interest deduction, as money goes a 30 year fixed mortgage, even today, as interest rates are elevated beyond the two and three percents that people somehow fixated on, that that's where interest rates should just be forever. You've got Mass. Amounts of interest deduction, so you're paying less in taxes. For that reason, there's so many reasons to stretch out that mortgage on an investment property versus extinguishing that debt, not to mention, you want to constantly be harvesting equity, ideally, pulling cash out. Borrowed funds are non taxable, deploying them, but then taking that extra cash flow and stockpiling it for another investment, whether that just be the down payment or for other things. I just think there's so many better places that those funds can go to produce more wealth than accelerating the payoff of that debt that's benefiting you, from a tax perspective, and several other ways. There's lots of other ways to apply that money. I   Keith Weinhold  25:43   I often ask, why accelerate the payoff on a, say, 7% mortgage interest rate loan, when instead you can take those savings, reinvest them into other real estate, where it sounds preposterous on its face to think of the rate of return that you can get from an income property, but when you add up all the five ways you're paid, appreciation, cash flow, loan pay down, made by the tenant, tax benefits and the inflation profiting benefit on the long term fixed interest rate debt, a return of 20% plus is not out of the question at all. So if it's 20, why would you pay off extra on a seven? That's 13 points of arbitrage that you could gain there by not aggressively paying down a property and instead making a down payment on another income property. Chaeli, when it comes to these type of questions and accelerating a payoff, why do banks seem to encourage that you make bi weekly payments rather than monthly payments, therefore accelerating your principal pay down.   Caeli Ridge  26:42   I'm not sure the reason behind that. I don't know that I've even seen a lot of that from my lens and my perspective. It's definitely not something I ever comment or preach on. But the overall, what's happening there when you do it the bi weekly, so instead of making $1,000 at the first of the month, you make 500 and then 500 right, middle of them on first of the month. What's happening there is, because of the way the annual calendar goes, it ends up being an extra payment per year, right? I think that's the math. Is, when you do it that way, you end up making an extra payment per year, so you can accelerate. And there's you're not doing anything different, necessarily, to in your cash flow, etc. So I don't think there's anything wrong with it. I don't know what the benefit is to the institution that would in communicate that to its consumer. Yeah,   Keith Weinhold  27:27   Yeah, it ends up being 26 bi weekly payments, which has the effect of making 13 monthly payments in a 12 month year, accelerating your pay down. In my experience, it seems that banks encourage this. They contact borrowers. They've contacted me in the past, laying out a welcome mat. Hey, would you like this plan here? And in my mind, accelerating the payoff. We already talked about how that's typically not a good investment. The more you know about the trade off between loans and equity, really, I'm transferring more of the risk onto myself and less they're onto the bank when I accelerate my payoff. So I agree. I'm not interested in doing that at all.    Caeli Ridge  28:06   You know, maybe Keith, it could be, because I people talk about this a lot, those people, and let's say that there are a group of individuals that might benefit. Let's say they're in phase three, right? They're well into retirement. They just want to start paying off. They're not maybe investing anymore. They just want to leave that legacy, perhaps, or whatever their circumstances are, and they don't want to take additional capital and apply it to the principal and lock up those funds and make them illiquid. So maybe, just as an easy sidebar, they just make two payments month versus one. I get a lot of people asking that question. I mean, over the years, I know that like at the closing table, we'll have clients say, Hey, is the servicer going to be set up to accept bi weekly payments? And a lot of times they don't like SLS. I mean, there's a lot of servicers out there that will not accept or don't have the infrastructure to collect those bi weekly so maybe just as a consumer desire out there, the servicers have gotten wise to it, and they just offer it. I can't think of the reason behind why they would promote that to their database. I don't know.   Keith Weinhold  29:09   Another question that I hear quite often, and probably do as well there is about bundling multiple properties into one loan. Can you tell us about that?   Caeli Ridge  29:20   Yeah, that's called cross collateralization. So we're taking residential property, okay, and putting them into a commercial blanket loan. So any combination of single family, up to four unit, five Plex and above is now considered commercial. So it's got to be single family, condo, duplex, triplex, fourplex, right? It's residential property, and they're taking any combination of that and putting it into one blanket loan, cross collateralizing it. Now, I believe the most incentivized way or desire to want to do this is probably for two reasons. One, to free up golden tickets, right? Golden tickets are those Fannie Freddie loans that we talk about a lot. There are 10 of these per qualified individual, if. If someone has maxed out their golden tickets, let's say they've got 12, 1314, properties, they could take five or 10 or 13, whatever the number, and put them into a commercial blanket cross collateralized loan, as long as it's non recourse. That means no personal guarantee is attached to it. The rule per golden ticket will free up all those spaces. So usually this applies to an individual that has a portfolio that has stabilized. This will usually work when the portfolio has had a couple of years to make sure that you've got your consistent tenants and anything that may come up, repairs, maintenance, et cetera, stabilized portfolios and then putting them into that cross collateralization, because the terms are not going to be the same as just a 30 year fixed Okay, especially if you're going to be looking to take cash out and harvest equity that way, that may be a real opportune time to borrow funds. Borrowed funds are non taxable once again, pull the cash out, put it into a non recourse loan. You've got half a million dollars of capital now that you can then go and get a whole new set of golden tickets for expanding your portfolio. So that's something that we focus on for individuals that have maybe maxed out of that that conventional landscape and or are looking to scale and acquire more properties, but they don't want to necessarily look at some of the DSCR loans. They want to get back into the Fannie Freddie box.    Keith Weinhold  31:22   Yeah, so someone could bundle and get cash out simultaneously, potentially, is there anything else that qualifies or disqualifies one for bundling many loans into one like this?   Caeli Ridge  31:35   It's a commercial underwrite. So they should be aware of that. Now, certainly, we're looking at the individual typically in those loans, the underwriting of those loans, the individual's liquidity and credit are most what we're focusing on, but it's about the property in the portfolio, DSCR, that debt service coverage ratio is a big factor. So we're looking at the income against the monthly expense. Generally. That's going to be the principal, interest, tax and insurance on a commercial basis, they throw in the maintenance, vacancy, et cetera, averages. So you want to see, generally speaking, about 1.2 on those when you divide the incomes and the expenses and then otherwise, yeah, LTV might be a little bit restricted on something like that, 70% usually, maybe you can get as much as 75 if you've got a really strong portfolio. But otherwise, for you, individually, liquidity, some liquidity there, and good credit is what is important. As long as the portfolio is operating at a gain, then you're good to go.    Keith Weinhold  32:32   Yeah, that cross collateralization could be really attractive. Well, Chile, we've been in this presidential administration that has shaken things up like few, if any, prior administrations have. One of those things is that they have pushed for cryptocurrency holdings to be recognized as assets in mortgage loan qualification. Now that's something that would probably pend approval by the FHFA and critics cite volatility. I mean, there's been a pattern where every few years, Bitcoin drops 80% before rebounding, and I'm not exaggerating, and that has happened a number of times. And another administration desire is this potential Fannie Mae Freddie Mac merger, or an IPO an initial public offering. Can you tell us what that's about   Caeli Ridge  33:21   let's start with the crypto first, whether or not this, this gets through the Congress and or FHFA, however, that that develops and becomes actualized, that may be different than what the lending institutions decide to take a risk on, right the allowance of that crypto so it even if it's approved and they say that, Yes, that we can use this for asset depletion or reserve requirements, or whatever it may be. I don't know necessarily that you're going to see a lot of the lending institutions jump on board. I think they'll probably have overlays. It's just kind of the layering of risk on the crypto side to ensure that the asset and the underwrite is less likely to default. I don't see a lot of lending institutions that are probably going to jump on that bandwagon immediately. That's probably going to need more time and consistency with that particular asset class. That's the crypto thing. So that's a TBD on the other side, we're talking about conservatorship. So post, oh 809, right? The housing crash and Dodd Frank, if you've not heard of those names before, they're just the last names of individuals that that rewrote that sweeping legislation across all sectors of finance. Once we saw housing and lending implode upon each other, Fannie Freddie, as a result, went into conservatorship. Now what they're saying, what the administration is saying is, is that they are going to say that the implicit guarantee actually, let me back up really, really quickly. I will not take too much time on this so Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac The reason that those products are the golden tickets, as we call them, and we're just focused on investor products right now is because highest leverage, lowest interest rate. And why is it like that? That's because it has a United States government guarantee. Against default. So this mortgage backed security is bundled up with other mortgage backed securities and sold, bought and sold on the secondary market to investors, foreign and domestic. Right? Investors that are buying mortgage backed securities, they know that that paper is secure. If it defaults. We've got the United States government that's giving us a guarantee against default. So that's why it's such a secure investment. If we come out of conservatorship, technically, that would normally mean that you may not have that implicit guarantee. However, the Trump administration and those that are in that space, FHFA, Pulte and all those guys, they're saying that that guarantee should still apply if that happens, if that's how they release this, I don't see anything wrong if they do it without all of the volatility. You know, let's use the tariffs as an example. It was all over the place. It was there, and then it was gone. It was up, and then it was down. It was 30% then it was two right? It was it was just so much, and the markets really had a hard time with it. And as a result, I think a lot of people lost massive amounts of wealth in the stock market because of that. So I think that there is some real benefits to getting the Fannie, Freddie, the GSCs, government sponsored enterprises, out of conservatorship. I think it just opens up for more fair trade in the market. But they have to do it the right way, and as long as they keep that guarantee, that government guarantee, and then they take their time and apply the steps appropriately, I think it could be a good thing, ultimately, for the consumer. Now, if they don't, it could really have devastating impacts, and I think it could even raise interest interest rates higher. I know Trump and folks don't want that, so I think they're mindful of it. That's just kind of the take I get. But we'll see,   Keith Weinhold  36:42   yeah, because that's my preeminent thought with this. Shaylee, if Fannie and Freddie come out of conservatorship, and there's no government backstop on those loans, it seems like the banks are exposed to more risk, and consequently would have to compensate for that, potentially with a higher interest   Caeli Ridge  36:57   rate. You said it better than I did. Yes, I get too technical when I go down those rabbit holes. That's exactly right. I do not think that they will go down that that path without that implicit guarantee. I expect, if this thing comes to fruition, I expect that that guarantee will be there.   Keith Weinhold  37:13   Yeah, it does seem likely, with as much administration concern as there is about the housing market and the level of mortgage rates and all kinds of interest rates out there. Well, JAYLEE, this has been a great, wide ranging conversation all the way from strategy to what the administration is doing in interfacing with the mortgage market. If someone wants to learn more about you and your products, tell us what you offer, including your very popular all in one loan there at ridge.    Caeli Ridge  37:41   Ooh, thank you for teeing that up. Yeah, especially right now, when people have a lot of concern about interest rates right or wrong, the all in one is a very unique product that removes that fear. It's a way that investors, especially can take control of their equity, pay less in interest, and sometimes hundreds of 1000s of dollars less in interest, while maintaining equity and flexibility and liquidity. Cannot say enough about this product. The all in one. First lien HELOC is my very favorite. For the right individuals, we've talked about it many, many times. They can find us talking about it all over YouTube. You and I have quite a few conversations about that. So that and so much more, guys. So the all in one, you've got the Fannie Freddie's, our debt service ratio products, our bank statement loans, our asset depletion loans, ground up construction bridge loans for fix and flip or fix and hold. We really run the gamut there in terms of loan product diversity. There's very little we can't do for real estate investors. So we're uniquely qualified in that space   Keith Weinhold  38:36   and you offer loans in nearly all 50 states. Now tell us more and how one can get a hold of your company. Yes, we are   Caeli Ridge  38:44   licensed in 49 states. The only state we're not licensed in residentially is New York. We can still do commercial there. But to reach us, you can find us on the web, Ridge lendinggroup.com you can email us info@ridgelendinggroup.com and feel free to call us at 855, 74 Ridge 855-747-4343,   Keith Weinhold  39:04   I'm so familiar with all those avenues because, again, that's where I get my own loans myself. Chaley Ridge has been valuable as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.    Caeli Ridge  39:13   Thanks, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  39:21   A lot of experts believe that stripping Fannie and Freddie's public backing and taking them public, yeah, that that will increase mortgage rates. See, besides there being more risk, like we touched on there during the interview, Fannie and Freddie would face strong incentives to increase profitability, to make an IPO appealing to potential investors, that's just another reason that would probably increase mortgage rates. But if you're the type that truly champions free marketeerism, then the government would get out of Fannie and Freddie and let them IPO, and you would want. To see that happen now you as an investor, you probably resonate with the fact that rather than having to methodically and even painfully save money for your next property, instead you can just borrow funds, tax free, out of your existing property, and that way, you're using more of other people's money, the bank's money, in this case, and less of your own. Similarly, if you avoid aggressive principal pay down well, you would just retain those funds in the first place. As you can see, Chely is really good at taking a deep look at what you've got to work with and helping you lay out a strategy that might make sense, keeping in mind and evaluating your cash, cash flow, equity DTI and loan to value ratios, they offer free 30 minute strategy sessions. You can book one right there on their homepage at Ridge lendinggroup.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit. Sure. Daydream.   Speaker 2  41:07   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  41:31   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read. And when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866   Keith Weinhold  42:47   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com.

Keith discusses the recent executive order by the White House, which could bring Americans closer to retirement plan access for real estate, private equity, and crypto. He also interviews two listeners:  Luke Frizell, a Navy officer who leverages principles from the show to invest in residential assisted living (RAL) properties, and Dr. Axel Meierhoefer, who uses turnkey properties and agricultural investments to build a diversified portfolio.  Both guests share their strategies and insights into real estate investing.  Resources: Explore the exclusive Texas income property deals available to Get Rich Education listeners, with up to $41,000 in incentives, book a strategy session here. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/567 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's an episode focused on you as we feature two GRE listener guests today. See how they've leveraged listening to this show into real world, real estate investing action then a property opportunity to announce to you on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:22   Welcome to GRE from Mannheim, Germany, to Mannheim, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. You're listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, you probably grew up playing the board game Monopoly. Well, imagine playing Monopoly and never buying an asset that generates income. What if you just went around the board collecting $200 giving your money to the rich and trying to stay out of jail. Does that sound ridiculous? Well, that's how most people live their lives. We don't do that here at GRE we add real assets that pay us while we own them, and more and more people can potentially soon get exposure to these asset types. The White House recently reported that Trump made an executive order that is bringing Americans closer to getting retirement plan access to real estate, private equity and crypto. I mean, think about what that could do to overall real estate demand, pushing up prices. It could make the industry boom. Sort of how the advent of 401, KS helped the stock market boom. Also, another development is that in order to qualify for mortgage loans, crypto could soon be used as an asset in your mortgage qualification. That's per the FHFA, and that's what they're moving toward. Now there's been a lot of novel information and developments and stories like that this year, as we're in a presidential administration that shakes up all kinds of status quo policies, from foreign wars to tariffs to us real estate. Journalistically, it's important to be accurate and avoid misinformation and false news as the AI era is near its nascency. Still, you have got to be increasingly cautious about where you get your information. I got a stark reminder of this recently, now former presidential candidate and HHS Secretary, Robert F Kennedy Jr and I recently did a stair climber workout together at a gym. You probably know that RFK Jr leads the MaHA movement make America healthy again, which I support, and much like me, he's an avid fitness enthusiast, and that's the kind of stuff that we talk about. Well, there are now some photos of RFK, JR And I out there exercising together, something that's okay with me. I'm even proud of that. I shared one of those on my social media myself. He and I don't talk politics or vaccines or even diet or just exercise enthusiasts. That's what we talk about. That's our common ground. Well, a Facebook post of RFK JR and I exercising together, and here's where the terribly irresponsible misinformation comes in. Meta AI has a one touch link from there to what they call Weinhold and RFK Jr collaborations. Here's how it reads. I'll read it all word for word, and so much of it is false. Keith Weinhold and Robert F Kennedy Jr have a close friendship that has garnered significant attention. Keith Weinhold, a businessman and podcaster, has been a vocal supporter of Kennedy's work and advocacy their friendship has been built around shared interests and values, including their passion for environmental issues and their skepticism of mainstream narratives. Weinhold has often featured Kennedy as a guest on his podcast, where they discuss issues ranging from vaccine safety to corporate accountability. Together, they have collaborated on various projects, including the promotion of Kennedy's book the real Anthony Fauci. Their friendship has been subject to scrutiny, with some critics accusing them of spreading misinformation. That's the end of the meta AI page. What in the world? How do they come up with this stuff? The only shared interest we've collaborated on is fitness at the gym. And you as listener know that he's never been a guest on this show. Now, if his expertise were real estate investing or economics, well, then I might invite him on. How does meta AI come up with this stuff about vaccines and Fauci I mean, that is so far away from my area of focus. I haven't weighed in on any of that stuff. My gosh, this meta AI page, it is published work for all to see, and it is about 90% false. So my point is, there's a lot of information out there about everything from real estate investing to endangered sharks to cooking tomato soup. Be careful. Pay attention to information that has cited reliable sources. And AI in its current fledgling stage, it really muddies the picture. One thing that might help is that open AI's chatgpt Five, which recently debuted, it is better. It's an improvement. For example, if it does not know the answer to a question that you have, it will tell you that it does not know the answer, instead of making up something fake just to give some sort of answer like previous versions. Did we need more of that coming up here on the show. In future weeks, we have vital monolog material from me, as always prominent guests, new guests and repeat guests. Last week, I answered your listener questions here on air, you can always write in with your questions or comments at get rich education.com/contact this week, it's interviewees like you, as I talk to the first of two listener guests.   Keith Weinhold  8:17   He has been an avid GRE listener for a few years, and says that he shifted from bigger pockets and other content over almost exclusively to get rich education for real estate and market content. He uses the principles taught through GRE to focus on his niche, which is residential assisted living, R, A, l, investments at the single family home level, he owns two single family units that also have ADUs and a handful of Ral units, which has helped him reach his goal of replacing his military income with property cash flow. He is a husband, father of three boys and active duty Navy officer currently stationed in Virginia Beach, Virginia, a buy and hold investor. He began investing in real estate in 2017and now owns a portfolio that includes rental properties in San Diego, five Ral homes in Phoenix and GP stakes in two Ral syndications. He is also the founder of open range capital in the Ral room, there are two platforms dedicated to scaling the Ral model. Again, that's residential assisted living, scaling those across the US. And when he's not serving or investing, you can find him on the lacrosse field, playing, basketball, training, Jiu Jitsu or chasing down any kind of competition. Hey, welcome to GRE. Luke frazell,    Luke Frizzell  9:37   Keith, thank you for the introduction. Appreciate that very kind. And once I started investing in 2017 I got started with the bigger pockets train, and pretty avidly listened to their podcast and taking some action on my own, I actually found your podcast and your website, and it was so much more efficient in the information that I needed to hear. I. Know, and the the time that I could spend actually paying attention to real estate news and the important things that I need to be paying attention to as an investor, that I exclusively and paying attention through your email list and through your podcast, it's always great information. So I appreciate being on and thanks for having me. Keith,   Keith Weinhold  10:18   thanks. I try to keep things nutrient dense around here, Frizzell is spelled F, R, I, z, E, L, L, and look, I know your investing philosophy is strongly influenced by one of GRE most seminal and central mantras, and something that the world first learned right here on this show back in 2015 real estate pays five ways. Tell us about that.   Luke Frizzell  10:42   That is one of the best just mantras for whenever I'm talking to people about getting into real estate, yes. And I literally say, what the five ways that real estate pays, because that's how I heard about it was through you. And I was like, That is such a perfect illustration of why this beats, let's say, the stock market, or why this beats a lot of other investment vehicles, because you're not just getting the cash flow, which is a huge reason why people get involved in it, and that's actually the first thing that I'm scrubbing for whenever I'm looking for an investment. But of course, you're hoping for the appreciation, which I really just count as the cherry on top. And if I'm looking at a market from the macro lens, I'm making sure that the the city is growing, the jobs are coming in, there's a decent population, and at a macro level, that's the first thing you need to do before you dig into a city to make sure it's good to go. When appreciation happens, it's probably because those things are all in the right spot. And you're you're picking the right neighborhood, but just, you know, leverage, and being able to buy with 20% of the full amount down, that's a huge piece. And just the hedge against inflation that you get through a loan all the ways, I'm probably missing one, but that's one of the first things that I say when somebody's on the fence on whether they get into real estate investing is, Hey, these are the five ways I learned it from Keith's website, and I'll point them to you guys. That's how I found residential assisted living was really Yes, I had been an investor in San Diego and had great success there with, you know, the buy, rehab, rent, refinance, repeat, the burn method, and putting those five ways into practice. But what I really wanted, as I was looking towards getting out of the military in a few years was more the cash flow piece. So that's what drew me to Phoenix. I actually heard a podcast where somebody was talking about this strategy where you buy a home and you lease it out to a senior care operator and they are paying two to three times the lease amount that you would pay or get from a single family rental, and yet you're also getting all the benefits of real estate. So it seemed pretty hands off, which checked the box for me on that since I was working an active duty job, and then it was also very high, high cash flow. So that's what got me into residential assisted living, and has kept me into it, and I've brought a couple partners into what we're doing, and really bringing my partners in is brought us so much further than I would have ever gone myself. The core tenets of five ways real estate pays has definitely influenced my thoughts as an investor and everything that I've done   Keith Weinhold  13:16   yeah, I can't believe more people don't talk about the compelling why for real estate investing? And I think real estate pays five ways. Is the most efficient and comprehensive way of doing that for sure, when it comes to Property selection and adding to your portfolio, like you touched on, I know that you like to say that you don't chase doors, you chase quality, and you have sort of this peace of mind with intentional investing over scale. Can you tell us about that?   Luke Frizzell  13:43   That's a great question. It was really a forcing function that formed my investor mindset was it has to be quality, because I don't have the time as somebody who's doing a full time job that's very time intensive, and sometimes I'm leaving for months on end before I come back and in my spouse works in something completely separately, so she doesn't have time to manage properties and things like that. It was forced upon me to be very efficient with what I invested in, and my wife was not. She, just like me, didn't grow up learning about real estate investing, so they had to really hit bang for buck whenever we made that first investment in order to buy her or get her buy in on it. And when that first rental check came in, I was able to take her out to a sushi dinner and say it was paid for by our our tenants. And that was kind of the first buy in piece Got it, got us in there. But, yeah, I really Chase quality. And we were very fortunate, and got a little bit lucky with the timing of our properties in California with covid and the interest rates we bought to early on in 2017 and then in 2020 before interest rates started going up, before prices got crazy out there. And those have done really well for. For us. But as interest rates continued to rise and as prices on homes continued to rise, I had to keep the efficient piece in the back of my mind. That's when I heard about the senior care investing number one. I was like, hey, yeah, the demographics, it makes sense. There's so many, that demographic of seniors, the boomer generation, reaching, you know, 80 years old, and coming to that time of life where they need care that is not going down. The medical system as flawed as it can be in our country. You know, people are living longer, and we need to house them, and people don't want to stay in a big box facility anymore that feels like a hotel and not personal, and you have a one caregiver to 30 resident ratio. People want more personalized care, like you would get at a private school. At a public school, you get what you get, and you don't throw a fit, which kind of the analogy I make for a facility versus residential assisted living. So what we invest in is the residential level, where you actually buy just a regular house and it may have four or five bedrooms in it, and let's say three bathrooms, and if it's a single story home that has, let's say 3000 square feet, that is a prime home to actually build out into a senior care home. And every state needs these. Every state has different laws and rules and regulations as to what some are going to require, different size door frames, different width requirements in the halls, ramp requirements, of course, for wheelchair access and such. At the end of the day, every state needs more housing for seniors, and it's really going to be an education piece on getting people up to speed. We have five homes in Phoenix doing this, this model. There's a lot of network already available there. Like people love to retire in warm weather. Phoenix is just a hotbed for these residential assisted living homes. So that's where we got started. But when you move into, you know, let's say rural Nebraska, it's not going to be as as prevalent. So you really got to do a lot more networking and education to zoom back to your question about quality over quantity. If you think about scaling to $10,000 per month in passive income, quote, unquote, passive, the way I look at it, if I can have one residential assisted living home that nets $10,000 per month when I talk about the one residential assisted living home that could make net $10,000 per month that would be running the operations yourself, where you have let's say the average resident across America is going to pay 4000 to $6,000 per month to stay in a home like what I'm talking about if One home, let's go with the low end of $4,000 per month has a capacity of 10 residents in the house, then you can have 10 residents at $4,000 per month. So that's $40,000 gross. And then if you the average, if you're running an efficient home, just having straight up staffing costs, that maybe cost you $15,000 per month, and then you have your mortgage and your debt, that takes you another $10,000 per month, and let's say another five for excess costs and food and things, that's $30,000 of expenses. So 40,000 minus 30,000 is $10,000 per month. That's an efficiently run home. But that is not the height of what someone could do with this strategy. We have partners that do $40,000 net per month in this strategy, and that's generally in the dementia care, memory care space. What we did when we started was something called the lease to operator model, and that's a little bit more hands off, actually, I would say a lot more hands off than the actual operations of the home, like what I just said, because if you're doing the staffing and you have the business liability, that's all pretty involved, and there's a lot of education and a lot of networking that you need to do to get to that point. When I got started in this, I did the least operator model, because I was time constrained and I didn't want to actually get involved with the hands on care number one, because I was in Virginia Beach, and the homes that we were buying were in Phoenix, so there was no possible way for me to do that when we bought our first home at 10 capacity, so there's 10 residents that can fit in the home. I found an operator and vetted them and moved them into the house, and they're paying me a lease for five years, so it's somewhat of a commercial lease, but it's a residential home, and I actually got residential insurance on the house. The business owner that is leasing from me has the business liability insurance, and now they're paying me two and a half times what would have been the regular lease amount that I could have gotten for that home. So in that area, they're paying me $8,000 per month on a five year lease, and that goes up 3% per year. However, if I was renting that out like a normal house, I'm. Be getting 2020 $500 per month, every month, on a long term lease.   Keith Weinhold  20:05   That's this way the manager operates it, rather than you, right? So I   Luke Frizzell  20:09   actually empower the manager, or this operator, is what we call them. That's why it's leased to operator. I empower this manager to actually run it themselves. I don't tell them you can't paint the inside of the house. I don't tell them you can't redo the floors when you want. If they want to do that, that's on them, but they owe me that lease amount every month, and I empower them to run the home however they want. What I'm making sure happens is I'm paying for the insurance on the house, and I'm making sure the roof is stable and the walls are not going to collapse. Everything else, from utilities to whatever is on them, and they are a full fledged business owner in there, and hopefully they stay once the five years is up.   Keith Weinhold  20:48   That's a really interesting way to do it, by the way. Just dropping back to your earlier comment, I like how you say your wife doesn't have time to do the property management. I think we both know that we are protecting her standard of living and quality of life when she is not the property manager. Yes, I think it's common knowledge in America that the senior population is growing faster than the overall population. In fact, about four past GRE episodes featured the late great gene Guarino here on the show, a big educator in the residential assisted living space. We've got this aging population, the silver tsunami, the demographics about it are surely undeniable. I think a holdup for some people is that you're merging real estate investing with an active business. However, you've just described something where you're sort of withdrawing from that active business part, getting a leaseholder to pay you two and a half times the market rent, if you just had it as a buy and hold property and having them operated, is that right?   Speaker 2  20:48    Yeah, and I that's obviously a rough I say two to three times. I like to call it Airbnb numbers in a good market, without the stolen paper towels.   Keith Weinhold  20:48   You know what I mean? Like that, the stolen paper towels, the vacancy, the managing a listing, the clean. So   Speaker 2  20:48   you're doing all the you're getting the reaping the rewards of, let's say, an Airbnb without any headache. Because once you've set that operator in there, and you've empowered them to do it, and you have a rock solid lease, you're wiping your hands clean, I have to reach out to my operators to get an update from them to make sure that everything's going well, because they're not reaching out to me they're running their home. And hopefully, if I've empowered them the right way, and I am allowing them to be successful, and they reach out to me and say, Hey, Luke, I want to actually expand operations. So if you buy another house in this area, let me know, so that I can expand my operations there as well.    Luke Frizzell  21:23   Yeah. Well, do you have any last things to tell us about the residential assisted living for example, I know you have four strategies. For one, to get invested in it.   Luke Frizzell  22:44   That's a good question. And and just to hit on your last point, you're I actually like that. You can mix the real estate with the business, if you have time for that. And many people can do that, especially if you come from a healthcare background, or you're a nurse, that you're just looking to do something out on your own and not just spending your hours working at the hospital. And maybe you're a caregiver that's not paid well enough, and you're overworked, but you know that you could go and do something like that, or you're a doctor, a lot of people can go out and do this themselves, but if you're like me, and you're just a working professional that doesn't have time to get into that, but you do have people skills, and can figure out, like, Hey, I've interviewed about five different operators for this, and I can tell that this one meets all the marks, and they're going to get in there, and I can trust them, and they have a good, extensive experience in this space, and they're going to pay me a reasonable lease. That makes sense for why I'm putting the risk into this. Yeah, I'm going to pick them and get them in there. That's a really good option for people. So that's one of the strategies, is lease to operator. Another strategy is the one we already talked about, which is own and operate. So you're getting the power of real estate. You're leasing from yourself as so it's one entity, one business entity owns the property, one business entity owns the care business, and you're leasing from yourself, and there's some major tax benefits to doing it that way. That's obviously the most time intensive, and you're probably going that route if you want to make this your life's path. The other option is actually, if you don't have the money right now to buy a house, but you have the drive and you have the experience to get into the actual operations, you could just lease from somebody like me and who owns the house and doesn't want to get involved in the operations just yet, and now you can just set up a lease with them. Phoenix is a really good hub. Houston is a really good hub, but cities across America are going to start finding out about this and needing to get this into their advertise, basically because the senior housing issue that we talked about. And then finally, you can passively invest in these through open range capital, we are investing in these, and we're actually developing some memory care homes in Northern Virginia right now. So if you go to open range capital, you'll be able to find opportunities to invest in these as a passive investor. Or there's folks in the rail room who are building. Memory Care Homes in Houston area, and they're offering over 20% returns to people who just want to, hey, you have money, but you don't have time, and you don't have the interest to actually do some of this yourself. But you understand the power of residential assisted living, and the way that this medical problem and the senior care housing issue is growing in our country. Well, you can put your money there instead of doing it yourself.   Keith Weinhold  25:25   These are four distinct strategies for investing in residential assisted living, from the very much hands on to the passive hands off. Oh, this has really been helpful. Why don't you go ahead and let our audience know how they can learn more about the Raoul room and your website.   Luke Frizzell  25:42   Thanks for that. So we saw that there was a huge knowledge gap between real estate investors and business owners. And just anybody who's an entrepreneur thinking about how to get into this. You see the Cody Sanchez's of the world talking about business ownership and all those things you hear about the problem with our senior housing. And if you put those two things together, there's a huge gap in the marketplace. We wanted to educate people on this, because when we got started, there was a lot of unknowns, and it's really hard to sift through all the confusion about, you know how to get licensed. How do I know how many people I can fit into my home and actually care for? How do I find operators? How can I learn from other people who are actually doing this across the country and figure out which market to get into? So we wanted to combine all of that and have a network of people who know how to find these homes, know how to get you started in doing these and of course, we've been learning along the way as well, and that that was part of our goal as well when we started the Ral room. But we have a community of over 115 people. At this point, you can go to the ralroom.com r a l room.com and find out more. It's a great opportunity to learn about what it is. We have freebies in there about how to get started, from one to 10 step guide, and we even have a free podcast called The Ral room podcast. So tune into that. If you haven't done it yet.   Keith Weinhold  27:04   This has been informative, terrific stuff from Luke Frizzell. The audience will benefit from your point of view. Thanks for your time and intention today.    Luke Frizzell  27:14   Yeah, absolutely, Keith. Appreciate you.   Keith Weinhold  27:17   This was our first of two GRE listener guest profiles. We've got the second one when we come back. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  27:26   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  27:58   You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866,    Richard Duncan  29:08   this is Richard Duncan, publisher on macro. Watch, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You   Keith Weinhold  29:26   this week's GRE listener guest profile is with an Air Force vet turned real estate investor, and today he even runs the ideal investor show. He's from Germany and lives in San Diego today, using strategies like turnkey real estate, 1031, exchanges and more. He now owns multiple properties in different countries and states. These include the states of Ohio, Idaho, Illinois and Florida, and the nations of Belize, Panama, Spain and more. He's been a GRE listener since episode. 100 which was in 2016 and this helped him connect with income property providers and get started and really growing his wealth through compound leverage, not just compound interest. He ultimately ended up with eight properties in what he calls well performing locations. Hey, it's great to have you here. Welcome to GRE Dr Axel meyerhoffer, hey, Keith, thank you for having me. Meyerhoffer is spelled m, e, i, e r, H, O, E, F, E R. I know that coming on to GRE is something that you've wanted to do for a while, but let's pull back first, what is your doctorate in? And then how do you use that degree or distinction today?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  30:40   Well, my doctorate is in organizational change and leadership, and the dissertation that I wrote as the study at the end of the degree program was about business coaching and whether it's better for a company to have internal coaches versus external coaches. And when you're diving really deep, my like, I don't know if you're aware, but PhD stands, at least in my book for pilot high and deep, high and deep, right? And so, you know, I really dug into this, and what I learned about coaching is still helping me, even though idea wealth grow is a little bit more mentoring program than a coaching program, but still, the practice of engaging people and getting out of them what they really want to accomplish is valid every day   Keith Weinhold  31:28   when we wonder about what's piled high and deep, I'm sure that thing is knowledge couldn't possibly be anything else. Dr meyerhoffer, tell us what you learned from listening here that piqued your interest?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  31:43   Well, the one thing is, I had found the book turnkey revolution, by Chris closure, who, for those who don't know he, is the one of the family members of the founders of Memphis invest that is now known as Rei Nation. I'm sure you're very familiar with it, Keith and I've heard of them. Yeah, I read the book, and it was very helpful, but it wasn't very clear, other than his family's company, how do you apply this as a regular investor, which I was at the time. And then I listened to your episodes over and over, talking about how you can use turnkey investing to invest out of state, being far away. And I remember, if I'm not mistaken, that you were in Alaska and investing somewhere in lower 48 and so that kind of got me triggered to look into that.    Keith Weinhold  32:30   You figure, if you're in San Diego, you can invest in Alabama, if a person from Honolulu or anchorage can do that same thing. All right, so you've built up, it sounds like, is it eight turnkey properties? It's   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  32:45   eight turnkey properties. And then I have a few other things, like, I also listen to episodes that you had about agricultural investing. So, yeah, like in Panama, the first investment was in a coffee farm. And then a little later, I also discovered some you would call them, like little cabin, kind of like vacation cabin investments and stuff. So yeah, I've actually learned a lot and benefited, and I always appreciated that, you know, you're not just saying, Hey, here's something you can do, but you oftentimes have a connection or relationship with an organization. And so several times my investments were at least informed, let's say, by GRE,   Keith Weinhold  33:26   yes. And oftentimes I'm investing right next to you, the investor myself, with some of the same GRE marketplace providers. You have eight properties. Are they all cash flowing? Are they all producing positive cash flow?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  33:41   Yeah. I mean, that's actually one of the things that I wanted from the get go, and that's also part of our idea rights grow a mentoring program to look at properties now. Right now, with the higher interest rates, it's admittedly a little harder to find locations and properties that have a good balance between the quality of the property, the area that the property is in and then also being cash flowing. We have fundamentally for renovated properties. We're still looking for 1% rule. It's harder to find, but you know, as a starting point to say, Should I even consider as long as it's close to that most of the time, the numbers work out, even at seven or eight percentages, you still make at least a little bit of money   Keith Weinhold  34:20   overall. Yes, the real estate deals just aren't as good as they were, say, five years ago, because both rents and prices are up, but rents haven't risen as much as prices have. I still don't know where you're going to find a better risk adjusted return in any investment, though, than with income property bought with a loan.   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  34:42   Yeah, I'm with you on that. And I mean, I remember vividly, not in only in books and other research, that people have this apples to oranges comparison thing going on all the time, right? I always say, Okay, well, tell me if you can buy stocks where somebody gives you 80% of the money, and I already need to put 20 right? What tell me if you can buy stocks and somebody says, Oh, the stock is gonna depreciate in the next 27 and a half years. So, you know, you write some of it off your tax return, and those kind of things. Tell me where somebody gives you money but allows you to keep 100% of the increase in value all these things. I mean, you have beautiful graphics and stuff that you made over time, but when you really try to do apples to apples comparison, there's nothing there. And one thing maybe for the audience, that I think is an important thing to know is, and I know Keith, you have said this so many times, real estate, especially residential real estate and investing, is really the long term game. And that also means to realize, okay, even in times like right now, you might only start with, like, 50 or $100 positive cash flow. But when you look at the longer term, I always say, and I say this to our clients, the first five and maybe right now, it's more like seven years. It's kind of like the hard time of this investment where you just barely break even, where you might be a little disgruntled when you get a maintenance bill and you haven't really built a big reserve yet, because you're still with your first few properties, but when you look at the trajectory, and I can see it now, you know, I've six years in all properties are cash flow positive, the rate that we're getting, even if we only increase rents by 2030, $35 a month, year over year. Like you said, right? You want to train your tenants. When I look at the overall picture, it's basically getting better every year. If you have that in mind, to say, I make an investment. I call, by the way, the point what we want to get to. I call that the time freedom point where your portfolio generates enough cash flow so yet you have a choice to say, Do I go work or do I live off the income? And that is why you still have mortgages, right? So if the listeners ever think, Okay, well, what happens when one after the next, the mortgages get paid off, it's like paradise at that point, right? If you really think of it from a purely cash flow perspective,   Keith Weinhold  36:56   starting is the hardest, because it's clunky to buy your first property, and then it also takes a few years until you really feel the effect of all these wealth multipliers at the same time. You're sort of touching on the third in the inflation Triple Crown, cash flow enhancement, if you only increase the rent three or 4% per year. Yeah. So what it feels like you're only keeping up with inflation, but the fact that your principal and interest payment stays fixed means a three to 4% rent increase might be a 10% cash flow increase. As that compounds year after year, you really begin to feel those effects. But yes, it does take the addition of time, but not decades.   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  37:38   I'm with you. It's just for me, important that anybody who is considering should I get into this right, especially in an environment where people constantly pointing to the fact that the stock market keeps going up, gold is going up, silver is going up, Bitcoin is going up, right? And to me, these are the apples, and they are nice apples, don't get me wrong, right? They're beautiful apples, but we're dealing in oranges, right? And we have these five different things that you keep counting on, and have all kinds of beautiful descriptions about that we get as real estate investors. And it's a choice, right? People can make a choice, and I'm all for diversification, but if you make the choice, then you really have the beginning of building a legacy. And for many people, I find more and more that becomes important to say it's not just for me, like if you were to ask me, it's not just for me, it's also knowing that my daughter will have a much better portfolio than I ever had when I was young. Yeah, our now, like almost two year old grandson, he is going to be safe pretty much forever   Keith Weinhold  38:37   getting started and even after starting for some people, there are certain mindsets that they need to overcome. One of them is getting out of state property. So do you have any thoughts or approaches with adding out of state properties, which is still a foreign proposition to some people?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  38:56   Well, one thing that I do and emphasize very strongly in our mentoring program is besides the investing and helping people to get the connections to like the turnkey providers and the lenders and the property managers, inspectors and stuff, the other part, and I'm sometimes almost feel, is more important than the investing itself. Obviously, it's kind of a requirement, but the other part is to really as the mentor, help people to develop the mindset of the king or queen of their own empire, or basically the owner of the investing business. And when you think about it that way, I often times portray it in the way look at all the components, all the services that you need for the out of state investor, right? You need the turnkey provider, property management, bank or lender. You need inspectors and stuff. I try to convey to people, we are building an LLC, and that LLC is hiring these people as if they were employees. And if you look at it that way, and you start adopting that mindset. And. You look at their performance like any employer would look at the performance of their employees. If the performance is great, they get praise and the raise. If the performance sucks, you let him go and get another one when you're not going to hang out with the same property management out of state, constantly complaining, not doing their job, not treating the tenants well, not treating your property well. Why would you keep somebody like that? So it's this aspect of building a mindset of, yes, you might have a job, a regular w2 job, but for the purposes of building your real estate portfolio, you are the business owner, and you're hiring all these services. And when that clicks and you start treating the people that you're working with in that way, with respect, but with every expectation that you pay them for their services so they're supposed to perform. That changes, in my opinion and my experience. That changes everything   Keith Weinhold  40:54   comes down to the fact that the team is more important than the property, and a lot of people perhaps overemphasize the geographic location of that property. Location surely matters, but it's just not nearly the most important thing I know. One approach that you take is you have this mantra that underdog properties often outperform hot properties. However, can you speak to that some more   Speaker 3  41:21   Well, I think it has to do with it, with this kind of analogy of Steady as she goes right underdog property, I'm more inclined to look in a nice neighborhood and establish nice neighborhood. I always say, Let's try, with the help of a turnkey provider, to find the ugly duckling in a nice neighborhood and get that renovated and that neighborhood, I'm not a big fan of this term blue color versus white color or anything like that, but if you bring the ugly duckling back to be the white swan of that neighborhood, you have, I believe, a very good probability that that will be a very long time longevity, well respected, well rented, well performing property, rather than, you know, running after the shiny object the most you know, like, I don't want to really open wounds, but I know that a lot of people ran to Austin, Texas, because everybody said, that's the market you gotta be in, Right prices, outrageous rents, looked good for a little while, then the property taxes got adjusted, the market collapsed, and now everybody is whining. I rather have my nice property in Dayton or in Cincinnati, and it's doing steady, as she goes, every month, every year, right? So that's what I meant by that   Keith Weinhold  42:30   a friend and prolific apartment investor, Ken McElroy, who's been a frequent guest on this show, Ken says, look for distressed properties, not distressed markets. There's a lot in that.   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  42:53   Yeah, I'm very much with Ken on that. And it's not just for apartment complexes. I think it fits just as well for single family or duplex triplex fourplex properties? Yeah, we   Keith Weinhold  43:03   want to avoid those distressed markets. It takes a long time for them to turn around, and every property in that market floats up or down with it. Well. Dr meyerhoffer, as we think about the future, you've been around this space for a while now, like you mentioned, you're even helping mentor some others. Where do you think the residential real estate market is headed the next few years? From your perspective,   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  43:27   I really have the feeling it's kind of a little bit like a coil spring that is basically being wound tighter and tighter and tighter. Because people may not agree with me. I think everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm a little bit refusing to believe that the dream and the interest of owning your own property for yourself and your family supposedly has gone away. What I believe is that the circumstances both from a Can I qualify for a loan? Can I afford the price? Can my wages actually work for what I want to accomplish that balance is out of whack a lot right now, but I can totally see when we're looking in the future, that we will see interest rates coming down, properties still being in high demand. And for us as investors, I don't know if you had it on your show before, but I oftentimes being asked, you know, is it still the right time to invest. And my answer is always, like most people in residential real estate, the best time was 20 years ago. The second best time is today. Yeah. And if you adopt this idea of, like, this cold spring getting ready, I mean, just ask yourself people, the last time they really did anything meaningful was basically in 2022 let's just assume it takes another year until interest rates come down, and another six to nine months for the market to really start adjusting. So that takes us to the middle of 2027 that would mean for five years, hundreds of 1000s, if not billions, of people wanted to do something, wanted to move, wanted to get a house, wanted to get a bigger place. They've. Finally can that's kind of the window that I'm looking at with. Not to say there will never be another opportunity. But why would you wait until the market goes crazy when you have it really nice, really calm right now, almost no competition for an owner occupants. It's really an investor market right now. We can pick and we can be diligent, and we can negotiate with the builders and all this nice stuff, no time pressure. They even tell you, I know Keith. They tell you, too, when you have a client, make first sure that the client is qualified before we even talking about price. I remember times when I bought where I was told you have 72 hours to decide if you want it or not and get it under contract because of 100 people out the door who want it, it's the calm before the storm. If you ask me, I can tell exactly when that storm is really gonna hit, but nobody can convince me that if five years the market is basically frozen, that when you release it and open the door, that it's not going to be pretty crazy. Yeah, no, in my opinion,   Keith Weinhold  46:01   that's a good analogy. We're in this period where we have a compressed spring lower interest rates could open up that spring to bounce up, because we have, really, it's all this pent up demand, a pent up demand spring, and we know as mortgage rates fall, millions more people qualify increasing demand for a fixed supply of housing. Well, this has been helpful for the audience. In closing, Dr meyerhoffer, do you have any last thoughts, anything else that you want to share with the GRE audience at all?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  46:35   Well, the one thing I would say is, you know, you want to work with somebody real estate investing, when you have somebody who has built the experience, like you have Keith with you, the programs and all the partners you're working with, similar to me, over the last 10 years, I think it's a great opportunity to do it now, where you can and have the time to learn and work together and take advantage of this relatively Calm market, because it's probably not going to stay that way. And on the other hand, I also feel that too many people are going like you said, in a slightly different context, after the current shiny object. And I would hate for people that made good money in the last year or two in the stock market to lose it all, because what goes up comes down, especially in these kind of assets, why not take some profits and put it where you really have the long term perspective, like you and I have always suggested for people,   Keith Weinhold  47:29   and is there a good resource where someone can connect with you? Because we've learned that you've taken such an interest in this and you've begun mentoring people. Is it ideal wealth grower?   Dr Axel Meierhoefer  47:38   Yeah. Idealwealthgrower.com we have a button for a complimentary conversation to just book a call. I would assume you agree. You know, when you work with people for longer term and for the personal things like money and investing, you kind of have to have a good relationship. You have to kind of in agreement where you want to go and whether you like each other and have a good energy with each other. So I always feel, let's talk, let's get to know each other. And if we decide we want to work together, then we do that. And if somebody says, You know what I really want to do, apartments. I know people. You know people, we can direct them to. Some people want to do storage units or whatever. So these conversations are really to say, let's get to know each other and see if the goals you have match with what I can help you with. And if that's a yes, then we are off to the races.   Keith Weinhold  48:24   Sort of reassuring in this algorithmic world that we live in, in this highly digital world that people you know really still matter, it's still about your connections with people. Dr Meyer Hopper, it's been great getting your perspective. Thanks so much for coming onto the show.    Dr Axel Meierhoefer  48:42   Thank you, Keith, for having me.   Keith Weinhold  48:49   Yeah, with the first GRE listener guest, Luke, it's just exemplary of how when you own the property now you make the rules, and in this case, you can increase your income multiples by converting your rental property into residential assisted living with the second listener guest, Dr meyerhoffer, I like his analogy of the coiled spring ready to open up as pent up housing demand should get released With lower interest rates. Both guests have a Military Connection, which is merely a coincidence. But today's listener guests were chosen because, unlike others that we've had here, they've each started their own real estate mentoring platforms influenced by listening to this show.    Keith Weinhold  49:35   Now in the preview to today's episode, I let you know that I have an opportunity to tell you about it's been pretty well documented that both Florida and Texas have temporarily overbuilt pockets, and this is where home builders, sometimes desperate, are willing to give you a deep deal. I've discussed Florida and their specific opportunities. What? About Texas? Listen to these deep deals, because Texas, it is one of the most in demand states for real estate investing, but cash flow is often hard to find due to property taxes and rising prices. That's why I'm excited to announce that here at GRE us with our coaches, we found a tiny stash of new construction, yet tenant occupied properties in San Antonio, the Houston suburbs and Dallas suburbs, and they are available exclusively to GRE listeners, four bed homes under 340k here's what's remarkable. There's up to $41,000 to you in incentives. That is 12% back at closing, interest only loan options as low as four and three quarter percent. Yes, they're already leased to long term tenants. This is a 19% cash on cash return potential put these properties into service and get bonus depreciation, like I discussed last week, up to $94,000 these incentives are just massive, and you can qualify with DSCR loans, no tax returns required, no w2 required. I mean, this whole thing is a bigger deal than a Bucky brisket sandwich, something else you'll find in Texas. These are all built either this year or last year. For example, like this beautiful three bed, two bath, single family rental in Conroe, Texas that I'm looking at right now. The sale price is just $279,900 and then you get all those incentives. The rent is almost $2,000 it's 1950 and it's over 1500 square feet on this really good looking property with garage. That's just an example of one of the income properties I'm talking about here. They are off market and they won't be available long. Don't miss out on this best performing Texas inventory we've seen many are already cash flowing, $500 plus a month. Chat with a GRE investment coach, and they'll show you the best picks before this inventory evaporates. Book time with them. It's free. You can do that at GRE investment coach.com. Until next week. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  52:47   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  53:10   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point, because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  54:26   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth. Building, get richeducation.com 

Erratum: At 37:31, replace "Florida" with "California". Keith fields listener questions on: changes to realtor fees, down payment strategies for investment properties, and how the new 100% bonus tax depreciation really works, then staggering inflation statistics that motivate you to invest in real assets. He explains that realtor fees have shifted from a 6% listing fee to a 3% seller fee, with potential buyer contributions negotiable.  For down payments, he advises maximizing leverage while avoiding over-leverage.  Bonus depreciation allows for significant tax deductions in the first year, benefiting high-income investors.  Resources: Connect with a recommended cost segregation engineer to take advantage of bonus depreciation here. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/566 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai  Keith Weinhold  0:00   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, fielding your listener questions on changes to realtor fees, your down payment strategy, and how the new 100% bonus tax depreciation really works, then staggering inflation statistics that motivate you to invest in real assets today on Get Rich Education.    Keith Weinhold  0:26   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week. Since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:22   Welcome to GRE from Athens, Pennsylvania to Athens, Georgia to Athens, Greece, and with listeners across 188 world nations. You are listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, yeah, you and I are back together for a 566th wealth building week. This is not where you learn how to create wealth through careful sports wagering at DraftKings. We also don't try to do everything like WalMart. We talk about investing actually pretty aggressively yet reasonably and responsibly at the same time. Usually those attributes are opposites, but because we are leveraging the most proven wealth building vehicle of all time, real estate, where you don't have to be the landlord. You don't need to get deeply hands on with house flipping, and you don't need to own property in your local market, though you could. We are not day trading. We are decade trading. There's not a get rich quick element here at GRE, because that doesn't work. We're owning mostly long term rental properties, bringing the financially free beats debt free approach and cognizant that compound leverage Trumps compound interest. And from the day you start focusing on this, you can retire in five to 10 years, and you can take it as far as you want, because unlike many professional sports, the sport of real estate investing doesn't have any salary cap at all. I'm starting off with three of your listener questions today. You write into the show with your questions and what I've got a few that I think could help a lot of you. I answer them here. And as usual, I start with the more introductory question, and then I proceed to the more advanced. The first one comes from Sherry In Sellersburg, Indiana. I know where that is. It's just across the river and to the north of Louisville, Kentucky. Sherry asks when I go to sell my duplex, how have last year's changes in realtor fees affected my sale costs? Yeah, thanks for the question, Sherry. And a lot of people still wonder about this first and a big little technical here, but this benefits other listeners Sherry is that a realtor means that they are a member of the NAR, the National Association of Realtors. So not all people that you enlist to help you market and sell your property are realtors, because not all agents belong to the NAR. In fact, the best catch all term for this person is not an agent. Depending on the state you're doing business in, it's probably licensee, someone licensed to act as your professional intermediary in a real estate transaction. And by the way, the name of an NAR member is a realtor. It is not pronounced real utter it's realtor, like doctor and lawyer. You wouldn't call a doctor a doctor two syllables, realtor, but to get to the crux of your question, Sherry, the changes to realtor compensation took effect almost exactly a year ago. It was last August, and it has less. Of an effect on the industry than many thought. I stated last year that it likely wouldn't affect things much, especially here on the investor side, and it really hasn't. The simplified version is that the old landscape was that when you used to list the property for sale, the listing agent charged you a fee, traditionally, 6% they offered half of that to any cooperating broker that brought the buyer to you. That was simple, and that worked for decades. That changed one year ago now, when any realtor or really licensee, when they work with you, now they simply contract with you for their fee, only like 3% as a seller of the property, you no longer have an obligation to pay for the buyer side agent as well, like you used to. But when you sign a listing agreement, you can indicate that you may be willing to concede and give an allowance to the buyer when they engage a licensee on their side to help them purchase your property. So Sherry, your voluntary contribution to the buyer side is negotiable, and it's part of the offer that the buyer presents to you. Now that's what you'll see as the seller and what you should expect as a buyer. The new landscape is that buyers negotiate a personal service agreement upfront with their licensee. Their service isn't free. I mean, these people can't work for free, and the buyer side licensee acknowledges that they will try to negotiate to get the seller to pay that fee. So Sherry, in reality, that's still what often happens. So the seller still pays that fee. In the end, the reason why is that not only is this traditional, but buyers cannot normally afford to pay for their own representation on top of their down payment and closing costs. They're often spread pretty thin already, but sellers can typically afford it. They have the upper hand financially in the form of equity in the property. And here, when you're buying properties at GRE marketplace, you don't have to pay any of those fees. We use a direct model without a licensee. So that's sort of the short version of the change, and why. I hope that helps sherry. It's a good question. Even licensees are struggling with the new rules.    Keith Weinhold  7:38   The next question comes from Jezebel in Yonkers, New York. Jezebel asks, what is the ideal percent down payment that I should make on a rental property? I'm trying to figure out the trade off between debt level, cash flow, leverage and risk. I'm still trying to get past the mindset that paid off property is best. All right, that's Jezebel's question, and Jezebel The short answer is that you want to make the smallest down payment possible while avoiding over leverage. Over leverage, meaning that your monthly payments are so big that you struggle to make them. Now, many investors that buy rental property, they're going to make a 20% down payment on a conventional loan for a single family rental. At last check on duplexes and up the down payment has to be at least 25% now you can make a down payment as low as 15% at least on a single family rental, although you would then be subject to an extra fee a PMI premium. Now, why would one do such a thing for the leverage? Because leverage is almost seven to one at 15% down, but you've got to balance that with a PMI premium. Run the numbers and see what works for you. Now, since you can make just a 20% down payment on a single family rental, conversely, why would you put 25% down? Your leverage position would slide from five to one down to four to one, where you can often get a slightly lower interest rate if you put 25% down. But when you run the numbers, you'll find that it's often better to maintain strong leverage and only put 20% down. Now, Jezebel, as soon as you start putting 30% down on a property that is questionable at 30% or more, because at that point you really have to start asking why the rate of return from home equity is always zero. It actually makes your risk go up, like I've discussed extensively before, with 30% down, your leverage ratio has been cut to 3.3 maybe the answer could be that 30% down is what it takes to produce. Positive cash flow, but putting 30% or more down is clearly not ideal. Think about how good we've got it as real estate investors here, for example, imagine that you're attracted to a dividend paying stock because it pays a 4% yield, unless you're borrowing on margin, you would need to make a 100% down payment to get that 4% cash on cash return from a dividend paying stock, 100% sunk into this, which isn't even a down payment anymore. That's just an outright free and clear stock purchase. Well, instead, in real estate, when you realize that property prices rise or fall in value regardless of how much equity is in a property, you don't have an incremental increase in your equity growth. It's a quantum leap. And here's what I mean. Jezebel, say you're investing 100k in real estate, that's how much you're going to put into it, and it appreciates at 5%. All right, there are two scenarios with that. Scenario A, you put that 100% down into just one 500k property, well, then you've got just a 25k gain after a year. Instead, with Scenario B, you put 20% down on five 500k properties, then you've got a 25k gain after a year, not just 5k Said another way more powerfully. Scenario A, you only got a 5% return on one property. In Scenario B, you got a 25% return on all of five properties. Wow. That's why the leverage light bulb, when that goes off, that is an incredible flex that you've got. That's why I say it is not an incremental gain in your wealth. It is a quantum leap. So I hope that some of those considerations really help temper your strategy there. Jezebel, that really helps you see how financially free beats debt free and exposes the opportunity cost of a paid off property. Thanks for the question.    Keith Weinhold  12:19   The next question comes from Ed, and he is a personal friend of mine, so he submitted this question by text message to me, but I wanted to address his question here, because I've had other people in my friend group ask me about this. It's about bonus depreciation, what it is. It's about bonus depreciation, what it is and how it works. And what's interesting here is that even those that aren't active real estate investors have been asking me about bonus depreciation. This was part of Trump's OB BBA, the one big, beautiful Bill Act that was signed into law back on the Fourth of July, and I told you about that last month, but because of all the questions about it and the lack of clarity around people's understanding of bonus depreciation, although it gets a little busy, let me give you a real world example with numbers on how bonus depreciation really works and how you can put 10s of 1000s of dollars in your pocket with it the next time you file your taxes. And by the way, my friend Ed that asked this question is a cargo pilot, so he is probably the most well traveled friend that I have. Yeah, through our chats and on social media, I often see that he's in China or Vietnam or a bunch of other places, but he lives in the US. In fact, bonus depreciation is encouraging more people that haven't even been real estate investors previously to newly invest in real estate because it is for properties acquired January, 20, 2025, or later, Trump's inauguration day for his second term or later. And I expect this to be effective for at least four years from that date. I think I mentioned that part to you a few weeks ago. All right, the property has got to be newly placed in service, not something that you bought, say, five years ago. Bonus depreciation does not apply to primary residences. We're talking about rental property, although it does apply to more than just rental property, because it can apply to property used in a business, like equipment, machinery and furniture, but within rental property, it applies to certain components of the real estate, not the building itself. That is on a regular depreciation schedule, and not the bare land. Land cannot be tax depreciated at all. All, neither through regular depreciation or bonus depreciation. You probably already know that a residential building itself can be depreciated over 27 and a half years. That works out to 3.6% of the value each year that can be depreciated or written off on your taxes, right? Well, what if there were portions of your building that you could write off faster, like over just five years, meaning 20% of their value each year you can, and others over seven years, meaning 14% of their value each year you can. And there's 15 year items as well. All right, so what if, instead of all that, you could take those five seven and 15 year components and just write them all off in the first year of ownership, so that you didn't even have to wait the five seven in 15 years, you can, you can write them all off in year one of your ownership of the property, and that is what 100% bonus depreciation is right there. That is in addition to writing off the main building over 27 and a half years. All right, with that understanding generally, let me break this down in more detail. Use an example, and that will also help reinforce what I just taught you, the components of rental property that bonus depreciation applies to, include the stuff that wears out faster than the building, and they are indoor items, appliances, flooring and cabinetry. At times, it can include HVAC systems, all right, that is written off in five to seven years. And then outdoor items known as land improvements, that includes fences, parking lots and landscaping. They're typically written off over 15 years. All right, let's look at a real world example on how this can benefit you. You can use bonus appreciation on single family rentals, duplexes, fourplexes and larger buildings. Let's use an example of an apartment building that you purchase for $1.2 million one we'll say the land value is 200k that is not depreciable. So the building, the depreciable asset, has a value of $1 million you must have performed what is called a cost segregation study in order to break down that $1 million building into those erstwhile faster depreciating components. And no, you cannot do the cost seg study yourself. You need to pay a few $1,000 to hire a Cost Segregation engineer to do this study. All right, let's look at the cost seg breakdown, the result of what he or she finds for you, let's say the personal property that's worth 150k its recovery period is five to seven years, and yes, it is eligible for bonus depreciation. Then you have the land improvements say that's another 50k over 15 years for a recovery period. And yes, it is bonus depreciation eligible. And then finally, you have the structure, or the building worth 800k It has a recovery period of 27 and a half years. No, it is not eligible for bonus depreciation, just the regular type. All right. Well, let me define more of this personal property for you here these five or seven year assets, these are what are eligible for 100% bonus depreciation in qualifying years. So we're looking inside the units, appliances like refrigerators, ovens, dishwashers, microwaves, washers and dryers, also flooring, carpet, vinyl and removable floating floors, not typically hardwood or tile, cabinetry and countertops in some cases, especially if they're not load bearing. Window treatments like blinds, drapes and curtain rods, ceiling fans and light fixtures, they've got to be detached from the structure and furniture, if it's a furnished rental, like perhaps a midterm rental or short term rental. So we're talking about things like beds, couches, in chairs and then in common areas. This five to seven year personal property includes fitness equipment in the gym, leasing office, computers, desks, chairs, clubhouse furniture or TVs, package lockers, like places where your tenants have their Amazon packages, playground equipment and trash compactors. All right, to be clear, that was all personal property that can be depreciated over five to seven years. And then there are those land improvements, the. 15 year assets also eligible for bonus depreciation, sidewalks, fencing, landscaping and irrigation, parking lots and striping, outdoor lighting, retaining walls and signage. Okay again, those are the land improvements, the 15 year items, things that are not eligible for bonus depreciation are the building structure itself, like I mentioned. That includes the roof framing, drywall foundations, and also things like elevators, structural plumbing and wiring and HVAC systems that serve the whole structure. Okay, all that stuff falls in the category of regular 27 and a half year depreciation. All right, so what is the 100% bonus depreciation effect? All right, well, your eligible amount in our example is 150k of personal property plus 50k of land improvements. That's 200k that you can deduct all in one year, rather than having to spread it over five and seven and 15 years. But all in year one of you owning the property that's 200k and again, the remaining 800k structure is depreciated over 27 and a half years. That works out to about 29k a year. This is where it gets exciting. Here we go. So your total year one depreciation, the year that you bought this asset and put it into service, with your bonus depreciation items adding up to 200k and your regular building depreciation at about 29k your total year one deduction is about $229,000 Wow, before I break that down some more and tell you about how it really helps you, let's just be really clear. How did you really get to the 200k of bonus depreciation. All right, let's say the cost segregation study allocated 80k to appliances, flooring and fixtures. Remember, they are the five to seven year items. Another 70k to common area, furniture and office equipment, that was the seven year stuff. All right, so there's 150k or personal property, and then another 50k to that outdoor stuff, the depreciable items known as land improvements, like the parking, landscaping and fencing, those 15 year items, that's how we got to 200k all bonus depreciation eligible, all fully deductible in year One under the 100% bonus depreciation rules, all right, so here it is. Here's the takeaway. You have front loaded an extra 200k of deductions in year one, and you have greatly reduced your taxable income. This is the outcome. This is the result. You just reduced it by 229k between the bonus appreciation and the regular depreciation. All right, so what is the effect of you reducing your taxable income by 229k in one year? Well, if you're in the, say, 32% tax bracket, you keep an extra $73,000 in your pocket. That's $73,000 that you would have had to send to the IRS for the next tax year. But no, you don't, and that is the power of bonus depreciation. That's how it works. Ed, and for all of you that asked about it, I know it's not that simple, and there were a lot of numbers flying around there, it got a little heavy, but that's a complete breakdown. That's why so many people are excited about the return of 100% bonus depreciation, as laid out in law with the one big, beautiful Bill Act, as you can see, it's going to help higher income people more than anyone. If you'd like to get this going and connect with GRE recommended Cost Segregation engineer, or just check and see if it's worth paying several $1,000 for the cost segregation study, we can help you with that. In fact, you might remember that I interviewed him on the show last year, and we will make that introduction for you and help ensure that you have a successful cost seg and bonus depreciation experience regardless of the size of your portfolio, even if you don't own million dollar apartment buildings. You don't have to have a huge income for this to benefit you. It just benefits those people the most. Well, you can set up a time to chat with us about that completely free of charge at GRE investment coach.com I think you know that's where you can also get a completely free strategy session about growing your overall real estate investment portfolio. You might as well do that at the same time at GRE. Investment coach.com. More next, I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  25:07   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  25:39   You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you, the average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom family investments, liquidity fund. Again, text family to 66866,   Blair Singer  26:49   this is Rich Dad, sales advisor, Blair singer. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And above all, don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  27:07   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, if you have a listener question that you'd like to have answered on air, get a hold of us at get rich education.com/contact that's where you can either leave a voicemail or write in to us. I'd like to tell you the frequent guests that we have here on the show, all from the rich dad school, if you will, are going to be speaking in person at Penn State University in just a few weeks. Here it is on the 29th of this month. Yes, an event you can attend in person. It's going to be Robert Kiyosaki, Garrett Sutton and his son Ted Sutton and Tom wheelwright, the four of them speaking live and in person, sponsored by Penn State's Borrelli Institute for real estate studies. The event is named Rich Dad revealed Real Estate Wealth and wisdom. If that's of interest, look it up and check it out. From listening to the show and being a savvy investor that's inflation aware, you know that the mission is to turn a really fake asset, a conjured into existence asset, like $1 convert that into a real asset. Here is some astonishing clarity on why. That's the mission in this could leave you flabbergasted. Since 1980 The United States has one and a half times more homes, two times more gold today, and 42 times more dollars today. My gosh, that is almost laugh out loud material here. Yes, since 1980 the year that Jimmy Carter was president and Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, was the top grossing movie. The US has 56% more residential housing units today. So basically, since the year that Darth Vader told Luke Skywalker, I am your father, there are about one and a half times more homes, twice as much gold mined and brought into existence, and 42 times more dollars created out of thin air for the future, all of these trends are expected to continue at roughly the same trajectory and proportion to each other. Now, there's a reason that people use precious metals to measure inflation. It makes a particularly good measuring stick because commodities like gold, silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium and copper, they don't change over time. Unlike a car or a bottle of soda, these items are on the periodic table of the elements, an ounce of gold 1000 years ago is exactly the same. As an ounce of gold today. That's why commodities like this are such good long term inflation measuring sticks. And then there's Bitcoin, something that didn't even exist until 2009 there will only ever be 21 million of them in existence, and 95% of Bitcoins, about 20 million have already been mined into existence. So yes, only 5% more will be issued, and it's going to take about the next 100 years to do that. If bitcoins were the size of a quarter, all 21 million of them could fit inside a single shipping container. There's some fixed supply scarcity. Let's listen to this. It's about 30 seconds long, and it's called all there will ever be.   Speaker 2  30:50   Every day the Fed prints an average of $465 million that's 26,000 shipping containers a year, created out of thin air. Maybe that's why the dollar loses value over time. But there's one thing they can never print more of Bitcoin at the size of a quarter. This is all there will ever be. Shouldn't the store of value hold its value?   Keith Weinhold  31:16   That's actually a Coinbase video advertisement that we just listen to the audio of there together. Yes, what they show at the end is a shipping container where, if bitcoin were the size of a quarter, all of them that will ever exist would fit in one shipping container. And like it said, every single year, on average, the Fed prints enough dollars to fill 26,000 shipping containers, just staggering. There are so many dollars now, I'm thinking of replacing my insulation with stacks of ones. Same R value, better liquidity. Pretty soon, we won't count dollars anymore. We'll just weigh them. Welcome to the Zimbabwe starter kit. We have gone from sound money to clown money. That's another way to think of it. Oh, they say money doesn't grow on trees. That's true. It grows in spreadsheets. Now, though, one keystroke at the Fed and poof, there's another trillion just like that. Just hit the control, plus the print key. That's all it takes. All right. Well, let's take a look and see how this manifests in your life as a consumer and as a real estate investor and as a worker since January of 2020 to today, a $100,000 salary has the same buying power as 125k today. Guess over just the last five years, the dollar has lost 25% of its value, and now I'm talking in terms of the CPI here, the consumer price index. So of course, all these figures I'm using could really be higher, like we say, therefore these figures are only the inflation rate that the government is willing to admit to. How does this break down by region? So yes, we have 25% national inflation over five years, but different regions have different rates of inflation, including the region where you are, and this is due to reasons like climate and the composition of industries and even cultural preferences. For example, a southern climate with a lot of air conditioner use spends more on electricity. So if electricity costs are high there, then that region's inflation rate could be higher than that of a northern climate. A place like Omaha, Nebraska is proximous to a lot of agricultural crops and beef, but a place far from where those items are sourced could be more sensitive to changes in beef prices or less sensitive. So over the past five years, here's how much annual inflation in these select cities have experienced again, per the CPI from lowest to highest San Francisco is just 3.3% per year. So in San Fran your 100k salary in 2020 would need to be almost 118k today just to maintain purchasing power. New York City, 3.9% annual inflation over the last five years. Chicago, 4.2% Philly, 4.3 Seattle is at 4.8 Dallas, Fort Worth 4.9 St Louis, 5% Atlanta, 5.1 Miami, 5.4 we're really getting up there now. Phoenix, 5.9 San Diego, 6.1 and the major. Major city with the highest inflation rate over the past five years is Tampa, Florida, at 6.4% annually, Tampa's had some of the highest real estate appreciation over the past five years as well. So this means that a 100k salary five years ago in Tampa would have to be 128k today just to maintain purchasing power due to its 28% cumulative inflation the past five years. But that's the CPI. The real figure could be 40% plus in Tampa. All right, now this information is useful, because even if you believe that the CPI is understated, which most everyone that's looked at it does, as long as the methodology is consistent, you can see the regional variation here. Again, San Francisco was lowest at 3.3 Tampa about double at 6.4% the ever present force of inflation. It's merely surreptitious, until you have a big wave of it peaking in 2022 that everyone noticed. Let's look at how it's contributed to the real estate price run up since 2020 All right, so in the first quarter of this century, you might find this unbelievable in itself, in the year 2000 the median priced Florida home was 195k I mean, that's the median price. Then the investor sweet spot is usually lower than that. It might have been 130k in Florida in the year 2000 so again, 195k in Florida for the median home price as recently as 2000 today, it is 412k gosh, almost as surprising in Texas, It was just 153k in 2000 and it's 338k now, I mean, don't these prices like 153k in Texas, make it seem like the price for a dog house already, New York, 276k up to 576k Also from the year 2000 to today, Washington, DC, 293k up to 643k Colorado, 377, up to 582k Florida, more than doubling 393, up to 833 And Washington State also more than doubling 313k up to 630k my gosh, price increases like this. They're a function of both monetary inflation and appreciation, and it's really a chief reason that the Fed has not cut interest rates this year. It's because the memory of soaring inflation is still much too recent.     Keith Weinhold  38:05   To review what you've learned on this week's episode. Changes to realtor fees have made less industry impact than many expected. The smaller your down payment, the more powerful your leverage fulcrum. The return of 100% bonus depreciation has many investors, and even non investors, interested in adding income property to their portfolio, and staggering inflation is a motivator for adding real assets to your life. Hey, if you would, I would love it, and it would mean the world to me. If you found this episode valuable enough that you would share it with a friend. I put a lot of thought into it, just like I do every single week, friends are probably going to find explanations about realtor fees and bonus depreciation highly helpful this week, you can either share the episode by word of mouth or take a screenshot of this episode and put it on your social media. You might want to write out that it's get rich education in your social posts, because it only shows GRE on our podcast, cover image in some views. Thanks for telling a friend about the show. Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  39:23   nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  39:47   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push Notes. Vacations and cookies, disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video course, it's all completely free. It's called The Don't quit your Daydream. Letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text gre to 66866   Keith Weinhold  41:02   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com.

Keith discusses strategies to avoid capital gains tax on primary residences, highlighting the potential impact of the "No Tax on Home Sales Act" proposed by Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene.  He explains the current tax exemption thresholds of $250,000 for singles and $500,000 for married couples, noting that 34% of homeowners could exceed the single filer threshold.  Keith also explores the rise of small investors in the housing market, representing 30% of purchases, and the potential of peer-to-peer storage and parking platforms to generate income from underutilized property.  And concludes with a critique of government dependency through Section 8 housing. Resources: You can see the video footage of that section 8 clip here. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/565 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, when you sell your primary residence, you need to pay capital gains tax. Learn how to avoid it, then how to increase your rental income with new peer to peer platforms. And finally, a perspective on capitalism and collectivism, with Section Eight housing today on get rich education.    Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from st, Joseph, Missouri to st, Albans, Queens in New York City and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith weinholden. You and I are back together here for another wealth building week. This is get rich education, the Treasury and the Fed keep conspiring to print dollars like crazy, create currency, debasing every single dollar that you're currently holding onto. They are stealing your purchasing power, stealing the value of your work and your grit. It makes dollars pretty fake, since they can just be conjured out of thin air, therefore your job is to convert fake dollars into real assets. That's what you need to do, and this is a strategy that dominates. Like Sydney Sweeney, they print more money, causing inflation, so you have to invest in assets, but then they put a capital gains tax on those assets so that most people never escape inflation. But of course, as real estate investors, we have a strategy to avoid capital gains taxes. Well, I'll talk about that more later.   Keith Weinhold  2:46   I mentioned to you on an earlier episode that I recently attended my high school class reunion in Pennsylvania. It was just a few weeks ago, out in a rural area with a lodge and trees and grass and inflation came up in a conversation between me and a few classmates that was some time before we played cornhole in badminton. I talked about how I sort of enjoy spending money. One classmate replied that he is cheap. I don't really directly respond to something like that, but my preeminent thought when someone says that they're cheap is that life is too short to be cheap. There is a way to guarantee an improvement to your quality of life and your standard of living, and that is spending it can do exactly that invest Well, first, that's an antecedent, and then you can spend now, in the short run, when you're young, living below your means that can make some sense, until you've accumulated some Capital, sure, but when you're age 30 to 35 plus, like my classmates and I are Sheesh, you've got to have yourself figured out better by then than to still be cheap make your quality of life exceed your cost of living, because at least here on Earth, this is your last life ever the risk of too much delayed gratification is denied gratification. So be more frugal with your time than your money. And a lot of people point to external circumstances for their circumstances. Most people wait for the economy to change, not realizing that your mindset is the economy that you live in with each property that you own, you just created another small economy that you are in control of. You are at the top of it. Yeah, you created. Another small economy, the actors in it are you, your tenant, your lender, your property manager, your contractors, your utility companies and more, and you control it all. Most people think wealth is created from high salaries, and they go their entire life, therefore chasing the wrong thing, thinking that wealth is created by high salaries all along it squarely is not you get wealthy by owning things, and you certainly won't get wealthy by being cheap. Now, when it comes to owning things, the government taxes you when you profit on those things during your ownership period of them at sale time through the capital gains tax. And of course, we've talked about the specifics in how real estate investors can completely duck out of that with the 1031 tax deferred exchange. But what about homeowners, primary residence owners, they often have to pay it well. President Trump and Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene recently suggested either removing this tax or reforming it. Now this would require congressional approval, but most members of Congress own their home, so they could very well be in favor of it. And green introduced what is simply called the no tax on home sales act.    Keith Weinhold  6:29   Let's discuss how this can affect you, especially if you're a homeowner, or even if you don't own a home under the current law, which has been in place since 1997 on a primary residence, your first 250k of profit is sheltered from tax if you're single, the first 500k is sheltered if you're married. This is called the primary residence capital gains tax exemption or exclusion. Let's use an example. Say you bought a home years ago for 500k you're married and you sell the home for $1.3 million that's an 800k gain, alright? Since the first 500k is sheltered from capital gains tax, you would therefore have to pay the tax on just 300k on all but the lowest earners, your capital gains tax is 15 to 20% so this means if you sell this home on that 300k of profit, you'd have to pay a tax bill of between $45k and $60k and you might not be done there. You could also be subject to a net investment income tax of 3.8% on top of that, you cannot duck out of this because the 1031 exchange that's only for investment property, not primary residences, like we're talking about today, with home prices on the rise so much over the last five years, how many people exactly could be subject to this tax? 34% of homeowners could exceed the single filer threshold, and 10% could exceed the married filer threshold. Another way to say this is that only about 10% of US homes have more than 500k of equity in them, and it's the homeowners in high cost states that are most likely to be impacted here, New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, California and Hawaii, states like that. So therefore this tax it acts as a deterrent to people selling their homes. Now, what about, say, an elderly person with a really modest income that bought a home in Los Angeles for $30,000 back in 1970 and now it's worth $15 million well, they actually would not get caught in this net, because, like I said, for those with lower incomes, and it's below about 47k for single or 94k married, the capital gains tax rate is zero. For most of you listening again, it's going to be 15 to 20% one reason for the President and others wanting to cancel the capital gains tax on primary residences like this is to get the housing market moving again and get more homes available for sale on the market. Now these 250k and 500k thresholds, they have not moved since 1997 almost 30 years here, they haven't been adjusted for inflation and the median home sales price, it's jumped about 190% in that time it was 145k back in 1997 it's 435k today. So is. Home prices appreciate, more and more people will get caught up in paying the capital gains tax if your home value goes up by 10k That's another 10k that's subject to this 15 to 20% Capital Gains Tax, with that erstwhile possible net investment income tax on top of that. Well, what can you do about this growing capital gains tax obligation that you'll have that a lot of homeowners aren't even aware of? Well, even fewer realize that it is possible to reduce your home sales profit by adding capital improvements. That means making home renovations to the original purchase price. So therefore that home kitchen renovation that you were thinking about doing, well that might not be as costly as you think, if it reduces your capital gains tax at sale time to reset what we're talking about here, it's been proposed that the capital gains tax be removed when you sell your primary residence. Usually, we discuss tax on investment properties here, but this is a significant proposal, and whether it happens or not, it helps you understand the housing market and how to limit your personal tax hit now see if the tax were removed, it could be costly, because it would decrease the government's tax revenue, of course. So in my opinion, what I think is really going to happen here, a more likely course of action would be that instead of eliminating this tax they would just move up the threshold, say, from 250 and 500k up to 500k and $1 million another angle to keep in mind is that relaxing the tax that helps out wealthy people more than it helps the poor. Now, house flippers want to pay particular attention to what happens here, for instance, simply eliminating capital gains tax on house sales that could benefit those who buy and flip homes for profit. If policymakers want to benefit only homeowners, then they need to parse that out. Otherwise, this would be a huge boon to eliminating the capital gains tax on House flippers an absolute godsend, a windfall. In any case, relaxing the tax would mean that homeowners who move they would therefore retain more capital to reinvest in their next property, which you could use to outbid others. What does that do that would drive up home prices even more. I mean talking about the capital gains tax on primary residences, its proposal to be removed and what this would do to the housing market.    Keith Weinhold  12:50   Before I tell you about an interesting real estate investing niche and trend, let's pull back and look at the national housing market. The NAR recently let us know that national home prices hit yet another all time high. The median existing home price reached a record high of $435,300 and that is a 2% increase compared to last year. At this time, it's also the 24th consecutive month of year over year price increases. And you know, it's funny, I recently talked to an investor based in Phoenix that also does a little investing in Las Vegas. She thought that national home prices were falling because she sees a little price flattening in her home area, which is a little overbuilt. Well, prices are up as much as 10% in some areas of the Northeast and Midwest, because those areas are substantially underbuilt. I mean, for some perspective here just one metro area, New York City, one city with its population of over 20 million people, has twice as many people as both Arizona at 7 million and Nevada at just 3 million combined. One city twice as much as two entire states combined with all their cities. So it's remarkable how little perspective some people have see my geography degree holder perspective strikes once more again, national existing home prices are up 2% year over year, nominally, pretty modest growth, not that exciting. And who is doing the buying of these homes supporting and driving up prices. Well fewer and through of them are first time home buyers due to the well documented affordability strain. More and more of them are investors. Just last week, the Wall Street Journal reported that investors are responsible for fully 30% of the purchases of. Of both existing homes and new construction homes this year, and this is the highest share since property analytics firm kotality started tracking it 14 years ago. Investors are really buying today, and what kind of investors? Interestingly, it is people just like you. The Wall Street Journal went on to report that smaller investors who own fewer than 100 homes are doing most of the buying. That's a big change from when massive private equity firms like Blackstone and Starwood Capital Group dominated the market. So this 30% of single family home purchases being made by investors today. Smaller investors are 25% and larger ones only accounted for 5% so yeah, the little guys, people like you, they can take bigger risks because they don't have boards and shareholders to answer to, and plus builders with too much inventory are offering them discounts that were once reserved only for the bigger fish. They're being passed on now to smaller investors like you. That's exactly what the journal went on to say, much like we discussed on the show here last week, where builders are giving massive discounts.    Keith Weinhold  16:22   Well, you probably heard it said that Airbnb doesn't own any real estate. Uber doesn't own any cars. Facebook doesn't own any content, and Tiktok has no original videos. Yet, they all dominate their industries. Well, when you own the real estate, you can make the rules and leverage some of these connector platforms to help you rent out space that you own and increase your income. Do you own any property that's sitting vacant with nothing going on on the lot, perhaps even overgrown with weeds and shrubs. You can use an app like neighbor that helps you rent them out as parking spaces. Neighbor.com customers request your space, and you can approve it. They can park their cars on your space or RVs, boats, boats, trailers. This can be especially lucrative if you're a few miles from an airport, and then there are platforms that let you leverage them, sort of like the Airbnb of storage. Roughly one out of every nine Americans is renting a self storage unit, and that's not even counting all the people searching for a spot to park an extra car, boat or RV. At the same time, there are millions of garages, basements, attics, driveways and backyards sitting underutilized across the country now, platforms like store at my house, Pure Storage and park for share, that one is spelled Park, the number four and share, they're all stepping up to connect people who have extra space with the people that need it. And the result is that renters can typically save 50% or more compared to them using traditional storage companies they can rent from you, and it's often more convenient for renters, since the space they're renting that might be just around the corner instead of across town. Neighbor.com is one of the biggest players in this space, though, its founder, his name's Joseph Woodbury. He says you'd be amazed at what people will pay to store something if the location is good and the price is right, they have had a tiny three foot by five foot closet in Manhattan that rented out in a snap, almost instantly in Woodbury. He even uses the platform himself, leasing part of his own driveway to someone with a camper. Now, you probably want to check with your HOA before you do something like that. But like Airbnb neighbor, they earn money by taking a cut of the host's revenue. But unlike Airbnb neighbor, hosts average just 16 minutes per month managing their listings now Woodbury, the neighbor.com owner, he calls it the most efficient, least time intensive form of passive income in America. And the peer to peer storage trend, that's become a great entry point for new investors, especially those that aren't ready to buy a full property. But it's also catching the eye of experience real estate investors who want to squeeze more cash flow out of the land that you already own. Some are turning unused sheds into rentable storage units. Others are converting open acreage into long term parking. I know someone that's hosting campers and. RVs on his 10 acres in Florida, and he expects to earn about $100,000 this year alone from that land. And they say it's mostly hands off. And now, whenever he buys he looks for acreage plus a home so that he can generate multiple income streams from one property. Well, can this peer storage and parking shake up the $500 billion self storage and parking industry the same way that Airbnb rattled the hotel world? Some think the potential is huge, with national occupancy rates for storage centers hovering around 93% there really is not any sign that the market is oversupplied. In fact, even public storage, that's the company name, public storage, they are the country's largest self storage space operator, even they use neighbor to help lease out their leftover inventory, and so do some REITs that have extra space at their office, retail or apartment properties. And as far as the types of listings, people are getting creative on these platforms. They're monetizing everything from empty barns to church parking lots. Think about how much of the week church parking lots sit vacant to vacant strip mall storefronts, and they're using that as parking so more and more people are realizing that there's hidden value in the real estate that they already own, and you can too. If you own the real estate, you make the rules. So check out those four platforms that I mentioned, if you think it can benefit you to increase the income at your properties in this growing peer to peer storage and parking industry. It was around 2010 when Airbnb really started to take off and really take market share away from hotels, and today, these platforms like neighbor store at my house, peer storage and park for share, are taking market share away from traditional, centralized self storage spaces to review what you've learned so far today, if you're going to Live life full time, you can't be perpetually cheap. Be aware of the primary residence capital gains tax and its elimination proposal. Small investor interest is growing now, making up fully 30% of today's home purchases, and grow your income with Pure Storage and parking platforms coming up next, a viral audio clip that borders on the unbelievable and gives you a new perspective on capitalism, collectivism and Section Eight housing, you'll be flabbergasted. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 565, of get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  23:00   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056,they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  23:32   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading, it's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Kathy Fettke  24:42   you this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  25:00   Keith, you are back inside one of America's longest running and most listened to real estate investing shows. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing. Since 2014 wealthy people's money either starts out or ends up in real estate, we tell you why and show you how. I've got a clip to share with you that gets a little wild. We usually share what I suppose is more cerebral content here, but some real perspective can be gleaned from listening to this. This kid wants to work his mom says, No, you can't, because she'd lose her section eight housing benefit. And apparently, free housing is more valuable than his future. This is about one minute in length,   Unknown Speaker  25:52   not getting no job. If you go get a job, they're going to take my section eight, then you won't be able to get no section eight. You're not going to get no job. They're gonna count your income against my section eight and my link card. You're not working, no. So I don't care what you gotta say. I don't care how you feel. You're not working, you're not going to get a job, you you're not going to school, you're not doing none of that like Ma. I'm saying how I'm supposed to be successful in life, huh? So you basically telling me I gotta I gotta be broke to be successful. I got to be broke so I can get section eight. Government can help you. So the government can help me. So you telling me I can't work, no job, bro. Like, that's like, all my friends got jobs and live and nice houses. So you telling me I got the I got to go through the same thing you went through if you have a house, any of that, they're going to take my section eight. How? What they be like,no, they will look at that and be like, he's doing something. And give me a bigger house. Ma, that's what you told me. I can get off your section eight and apply for my own section eight. Okay, but if you do that, you're gonna have to go the hard way. It's gonna take a long so what? That's what I'm saying. Get on Section Eight. Find you a nice apartment, go get you a link card. You will be fine. You don't have to sit up and work. You don't have to work, no job, if the government is here to help us.   Keith Weinhold  27:11   Gosh, this mom won't let her son work, or else she'll lose their government section eight housing benefit, where taxpayers pay for most of their housing. And by the way, is this real? Is this a rage bait skit? I can't quite tell, but it surfaces some interesting questions. For sure, it is true that section eight housing voucher recipients like her can lose their benefits if the household earns more and exceeds a certain threshold. Gosh, here's the youth that wants to do something and maybe be better and have more than his parents. You should want what's best for your child? Some parents have to beg their children to get a job. This kid is willing to go out and see what he's capable of doing. This eaglet is looking to leave the nest, and you're clipping his wings, and yes, you the listener, are the one paying for their housing. There's no such thing as a free government program, because taxpayers like you and I fund the government section eight housing is therefore tax payer funded at one point. The mom says the government is here to help us. Yeah, this woman is making you poorer. This is where the taxes that get knocked out of your paycheck are going. You're working at a job, spending less time with the people you love, and maybe doing fewer of the activities you love so that she can perpetuate a culture of laziness and government dependency. Another successful entrepreneur or employee is not making you poorer, this woman is making you poorer. Thomas Sowell said it best. He is an author and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution. He's got a lot of brilliant thoughts. Soul famously said, I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money you have earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money. That's Thomas Sowell. Now it's possible that this woman couldn't get a job that would pay so much more than the section eight income ceiling that it would be worth her getting one. She said there that she doesn't have a job at all. Maybe she has a disability, but there's a video of this. You can see the video. She doesn't appear to be disabled, but the appalling part is that she's discouraging her son from working now. Understand some section eight tenants do work full time jobs, but they're almost certainly going to be really low paying like, say, washing dishes for a restaurant. Section Eight is supposed to be a temporary program. It's supposed to be helpful, not a hindrance. It is a federal program. It's administered by HUD, and it pays the rent money for low income people, allowing them to rent housing out in the private open market. The program has high demand and some long, long waiting lists. They can be years long, even a decade long, waiting list for Section Eight housing some housing authorities even close their wait lists entirely due to the length the overwhelming demand and understand as well, veterans and the elderly are probably on a wait list, waiting for substantially younger people like her to get off the program to qualify for Section Eight, most families need an income below 50% of the area's median income, and your criminal background check has got to be clear, so you don't need to pass some high bar to get into the program. Now, in reality, a large share of the benefit recipients have an income that's under 30% of an area's median and how much of your rent does section eight pay? Participants typically pay a portion of their monthly income toward rent, usually around 30% they pay around 30% where section eight pays 70% I once run into a section eight tenant, and the tenant paid closer to 20% while the program paid 80% for you. And by the way, landlords don't have to accept section eight tenants. It is voluntary, and it pays landlords about the market rate in hot housing markets with fast rising rents. Well, you probably don't want to accept section eight because a regular, unsubsidized tenant is often going to pay you more in a slow rental market, Section Eight is better for landlords. Now, some landlords like section eight because it is guaranteed rent income, but some don't like it because they say they get low quality tenants. Well, foreign landlord can rent to a section eight tenant, a person called a case manager inspects the unit, and I think I shared with you before that, the first one that inspected mine, they wrote me up because they said that one of my Windows didn't open all the way. I fixed it, and the tenant stayed two years before they moved. But the average duration of time that a tenant spends in the program is six to nine years. It is supposed to be a short term bridge, but often becomes a long term subsidy people get dependent on the handout. HUD tells us that only one in seven families leave the program due to increased income, and there is a strong stigma around section eight housing, for sure. Who knows? To shake the stigma, maybe they will just change the name of the program. That happens sometimes, sort of like how they changed the name of the food stamps program to snap. And by the way, the link card that she mentioned in the video that is for food assistance. That's actually the name of the snap card in the state of Illinois. Oh, dear God bless America, training her kids to live off the government. I almost feel trashy after thinking about this. I'm probably going to go shower next now. Should the minimum wage be high enough that everyone can afford at least a one bedroom apartment, and therefore people wouldn't need section eight? Well, the federal minimum wage is $7.25 it's been stuck there since 2009 the economic commentator Peter Schiff, who I had lunch with a couple times last month, he and his wife Peter, makes the case that there should be no minimum wage at all. That is government intervention in the free market. If you make the minimum wage too high, people get laid off and people get replaced by robots. That's just what's really happened in practice, if a person can only make the minimum wage, they need to get better, and they need to skill up, is what Peter contends. Now, when I graduated college, I would have thought that premise sounded ridiculous. No minimum wage. But the more I think about it and the more I experience life, it does begin to make more sense. The fresh post collegiate me would have said that, ah, a working human being, they deserve the dignity of a minimum wage. That's livable, but some time and perspective has me saying that you are the one that brings dignity to your work, your earning potential and your life. It's not up to someone else to provide you with dignity. You don't lean on the government for your dignity. Learn more, be better, skill up. You'll be dignified, and you're going to earn multiples more than minimum wage. When it comes to the section eight, mom, everyone would like to live at the expense of the state, but few realize that the state lives at the expense of everyone else. If you'd like to see the video footage of that section eight clip that I played and more of my commentary on it. It's pretty interesting that should be available on our YouTube channel now. The channel name is get rich education. What else would it be for the production team here at GRE? That's our sound engineer, Vedran Dzampo , who has edited every single GRE episode since 2014,  QC and show notes. Brenda Almendadadas, video lead, Binaya Gyawali video strategy lead, Talha Mughal, video editor, Sorosa KC and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. If you'd like the show, please tell a friend about it. I'd really appreciate you sharing it until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.    36:29   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice if the means of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:53   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read. And when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate. Video, course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866. While it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  38:08   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.  

Keith discusses the impact of inflation and interest rates on real estate investing, emphasizing passive income strategies.  He highlights the Florida housing market, noting a 26% increase in listings post-pandemic.  Investor and Florida homebuilder, Jim, joins this episode to explain the overbuilding in the emotional market versus the underbuilt workforce housing.  His company focuses on new construction in areas like Ocala, offering 40-year loans with 5.25% fixed rates, and boasting an average tenancy duration of over three years. They also provide two years of free property management and a 10-year builder warranty. Resources: Schedule a free strategy session with a GRE Investment Coach to evaluate the opportunity at GREinvestmentcoach.com Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/564 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what control do you have over inflation and interest rates? Then, with the Florida housing oversupply and resultant attrition and price levels, wouldn't it be interesting to talk to a prominent Florida homebuilder? That's just what we do today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 2  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from coral, Illinois to Cape Coral, Florida and across 180 nations worldwide. I'm Keith weinholden. You are inside for another wealth building week. This is get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 with inflation on the upswing and is currently approaching 3% again, the formula is small. Down payment. Bank buys you the house. Tenants pay down the loan. Property Manager handles nearly everything. You collect cash every month. Inflation builds you massive wealth, and that's real estate, all right. And no one really knows what's going to happen with inflation and interest rates, those two positively correlated indicators, but at times we have an illustrious guest that will make a prediction. And GRE episode 224, from January of 2019 has been getting some attention lately. That's back when interest rates of all types were really low, and when I interviewed legendary investor Jim Rogers in Singapore, listen in to what he told you, and I on that episode, then   Speaker 3  2:49   you ask me, we're now headed up again, and interest rates are going to go go much, much, much higher over the next few decades, and it's going to ruin a lot of people. I hope none of your listeners get ruined. I hope I don't get ruined, but rising interest rates are here for a long time. Keith, be worried. Be careful.   Keith Weinhold  3:08   Yeah, some real Jim Rogers prescience there in Episode 224 he has seen some cycles. Now as investors, we've got regional phenomena and national phenomenon mortgage rates. They're a national one, because more or less, whenever you finance property anywhere in the nation, your rate is going to be the same nationwide. Perhaps you feel then like you don't have any control over your mortgage rate. Well, I've got two points to that. First, understand that today, mortgage spreads are almost back to normal. Now, what does that mean? Mortgage spreads from listening to the show, you probably know that the mortgage rate you pay is dictated more on the level of bond yields than it is the Fed funds rate that your own Powell controls. Well, 30 year mortgage rates are historically almost 2% above the bond yield, meaning they're 2% above the yield on the 10 year T note, okay, that's the bond yield. The spread was recently above 3% now it is down to about two and a half. To be clear, mortgage rates are now just about two and a half percent above bond yields in this narrowing, that means there's more investor confidence in the mortgage market, and that suggests that lenders are willing to offer loans at competitive rates without succumbing to volatility. So lenders are less concerned about the risk of you quickly refinancing out of the loan that they just worked to make for you, the translation is that this opens the door to make it easier for mortgage rates to fall to 6% and they've been nearly seven for a while. Though I don't predict rates. I'm speaking about probabilities here. Now some people want to lock up property before rates fall, because when rates fall, many think home prices will surge because more people can afford property than higher demand. And I think we all know that the conventional wisdom is to lock in your price now and then if rates fall, you refinance. Conversely, if rates go higher, well then you'll be glad you bought today when rates were lower. But today we're talking about how you can really control the mortgage rate you pay when you work with a builder that won't only see that your mortgage rate gets bought down, they'll ensure that they are the ones paying for the pie down, not you. That's key, as we talked to a home builder in Florida today, a state that makes headlines for being overbuilt, it's a case study in how a market gets to an overbuilt condition, or does it really get overbuilt? It depends on this segment of the real estate market that you're focused on as an investor, as you'll see today, let's meet this week's guest.    Keith Weinhold  6:05   I'd like to welcome Jim onto the show today. He's one of the founding partners of a prominent Florida home builder. They built over 9000 residences, and they have 120 plus full time employees, and it's been such an interesting time in Florida home building and the real estate market, so that's why we're chatting today. Hey Jim, welcome onto the show. Keith, great to be back. Thanks for having me. Let's talk about the problem statewide. Florida has about 26% more listings, more available housing inventory, as compared to pre pandemic levels. That's created some problems, some price attrition. Talk about, why did Florida get over built? Or are they not truly overbuilt when we segment that by product type.   Jim Sheils  7:02   Well, like you said, Keith, product type is really important to decipher here, because it does help dissect the problem a little more clearly. There's a lot of different markets happening, but two of the main things that I've seen that have caused the softening of certain segments of the market is one insurance if you are buying a 1957 home in southwest Florida, a few blocks from the beach, it is possible that your insurance has gone up four to five times. Yeah, the annual thing. So that is going to really start to shake people who own those properties. They're going to feel a little triggered to sell, and it's going to be more difficult to sell, because if you have an agent go and show that property and they ask for a good faith estimate from a lender, and they say, Well, what's your current insurance? That can really scare people. So that type of property normally properties older before 2004 when the rules changed, with higher insurance, that can change it. The second thing is, the emotional market always seems to take a hit, Keith, and I've heard you talk about this before. Now, the emotional market that I talk about is we have our median value in any of the real estate markets, right? And you go about 25% above the median, maybe 30% above the median values. That's what I call the emotional market. These are the really nice houses that are fun to visit. You know, nice to stay in, nice to live in, but they are emotional. This is an emotional market. The cash flow numbers have never worked. They're not on the ultra high end that those people normally own cash and they don't really care the fluctuation. It's that level above the median where I see the emotional market really take the hit, because when the emotion comes out, while the people it's harder to sell to find the buyers, especially with the rates jumping the way that they have over the last two years, there's not the ability to sit back and say, Well, you know what, Keith, I'm just going to hold this and rent it, because their negative position, their negative cash flow every month, begins to sink them quickly, and so that's where you see that pressure downward on that emotional market. If that makes any sense.   Keith Weinhold  9:06   did Florida really get ahead of itself with the increase in pandemic migration? Was there more building because they projected that high migration rate to continue, and it just didn't. Is that why areas of Florida are overbuilt.   Jim Sheils  9:22   What I believe happened was the migration was there, Keith, but again, you have to look at the sectors of the market. Now, when you're looking at a large national home builder, their goal is to sell the property with the greatest profit spread. It's just that simple, and those are the properties when times are good and times are hot, this emotional market, you know, 20, 30% above the median value for an area that's a very easy time to promote and to sell those types of properties and make the best spread for them. And so, yes, in that area, they got ahead of themselves, because it was easy to market to, easy to promote to. And again. In. Some people untrained investors, or people just emotional and saying, Well, I'm gonna have a second home in Florida, and I'll get there more often than I think I will. That causes that issue now, but going to the lower segment, like the workforce housing, like you and I have talked about, well, that has been underprepared for the migration and affordability. That is my word of the year, affordability, the affordable housing, the workforce housing. When you look at the stats, I think it was last year we found the stat that for every 25 workforce housing, new construction workforce housing, there's 100 renters. And so the workforce housing has been underdeveloped, and why? You know, we're a niche builder. It's very rare for a builder like us to focus on workforce housing. That's not the focus of many of the larger builders. They're on that more emotional market. So that's where we focus. But with builders like us focusing on that, no one else that part of the market, Keith has been under supplied, actually in the last few years, because the net migration didn't need those emotional houses. They needed the workforce housing.   Keith Weinhold  11:05   This is a great distinction. We can look at a stat like there's 26% more available housing inventory in Florida statewide than there was pre pandemic, but you've got to parse that by product type, workforce housing, which you specialize in, including build to rent, housing has not been oversupplied, not nearly to that same extent. It could even be undersupplied, depending on where you're at. These are the properties that make the best long term income properties. I hope you the listener caught it there. Jim gave an important date. 2004 is a key year when there were changes to building codes, which results in what your insurance premiums are going to be. Tell us more about that.    Jim Sheils  11:50   Yeah, 2004 right through Punta Gorda, Florida, where we build now. There was Hurricane Charlie came through. My dad's cousin, I have actually lived there at the time. I mean, that place got decimated. Keith, it got absolutely decimated, and the government called timeout. They said, timeout. Okay, we got to stop this. New rules. Moving forward, we're going to change the structural design requirements. We're going to change the elevation requirements. This is the big one. So you know, back in the day, you and I, if we were back in 1962 in Fort Myers, Florida, we could build a house at two feet or three feet above sea level. Those days are gone. If you're going to build a property like going back to Punta Gordon, now today, you have to build it 13 to 14 feet above sea level. So that means builders like us got to bring in a lot of dirt, and we grumble and complain about it until a storm goes through and we have no flooding on any of our properties. But that was a requirement, then stronger fasteners and structural design, because they just didn't want that risk or this type of damage. And it's been interesting, because they've been two hurricanes, you know, since 2004 that have really gone right over the eye. The main power of the storm has gone through. Punta Gorda. I've actually showed this on some videos that we've done on YouTube, like the flyover the next day, and you would think, Oh, well, maybe there was like a strong wind that went through, because there's palm fronds down and some fencing, but the houses are intact, and it's because things had to be rebuilt to today's standards. So I always tell people, hey, you know, we'd love to help you get a house, but if you're just going down there to find a house, I would highly recommend you look at the elevation and look if your house was built before the year 2004 or after, because that is really when things started to change. Not that a house earlier might not have what you're looking for, but elevation is such a key component when you're near coastal areas in Florida, the elevation of your home.   Keith Weinhold  13:41   Is it that simple? Pre 2004 you're likely to pay substantially higher insurance premiums on your Florida property than you are if the build year was 2004 or later.   Jim Sheils  13:52   It's a main component, Keith, another component will be to that is, you know, how close are you to the beach? If you're within, you know, a half a mile of the beach that can have an on lower ground of an older property, those combinations for risk analysis for an insurance company will come up not in your favor, and so you have to put that into account too. Again, the further you move inland, especially the further you move north, and the further you move inland in Florida, the insurance premiums go down because the risk assessment of the last 100 Years of hurricanes has been so much dramatically lower of actually causing issue.   Keith Weinhold  14:29   We'll talk about the Florida areas that you build in later. But first, let's just pull back. Talk about statewide. How bad is it? How bad is it with the overbuilt condition in some segments of the residential market, and how that's led to price attrition, a lack of rent growth or rental occupancy rates that are hurt potentially. Can you speak to that? How bad is it now,   Jim Sheils  14:54   again, going to the segment of the emotional market, so we're talking 20 to 30% above the median. In price in an area that's going to be bad, that's where you're going to have to have downward pressure. You're going to have to your property may have appreciated Well, if you did in 2020, but you're not selling a peak pricing. You're going to have to come off your numbers a good amount, because there's not as many buyers. And also, you got to remember, coupled with that pricing coming down, it's also the interest rates we got pretty spoiled. You know, three and a half percent interest rates, two and a half percent interest rates for some homeowners, that's just not the norm now. So when you're going off those numbers, the affordability, the ability to make that payment, has really been affected. So that emotional market, I think we're going to see a continued softening in that and again, in that emotional market too. To what I saw was, and I own some short term rentals, and I like short term rentals, but what we saw there was a rush, like, almost like a California gold rush, here in Florida, to people coming in and buying what they consider a short term rental, which was not really desirable for short term rent. It could get a few people here and there, but they would buy it, this emotional market, and then the numbers wouldn't work out. Now that, as well, is starting to put pressure on people saying, Oh, I'm losing so much money every month. Let's just sell and again, that emotional market, that area, 20, 25% 30% above median value. That's where we're seeing that. So you're going to see some pressure downward of that, I'd say at least another 10% because there's already been a dip in some areas 15 to 20% so there has been a correction in those and I think we'll continue to see that until some of this stabilizes.    Keith Weinhold  16:32   Talk to us about how the rental segment's doing, statewide   Jim Sheils  16:36   rental, we saw a stagnation for about a year and a half to two years, and just in the last six months, we've seen an increase in some of our main markets here. Again, when I say they main markets here, I'm always speaking, because that's what we stick to, the workforce housing. So we've seen workforce housing some of our main central Florida markets and some of our Northeast markets go up another 50 to $100 which was great, because it was stagnant for about two years. About two years. And then you'll see a continued dip of probably, you know, 10 to 15% on some of that emotional market rentals, because now there's a rush to try to rent them, and again, there's not as much of a demand for that segment of the market.    Keith Weinhold  17:17   We're talking with a prominent Florida home builder about Florida's temporarily overbuilt residential housing type. We've already learned that 2004 is a key year for what your insurance rates are likely going to be. We've also learned about how you need to segment these residential housing markets between workforce housing and the emotional side of the market. You're listening to get rich education more when we come back on Florida real estate, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  17:46   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Keith Weinhold  18:18   You know what's crazy, your bank is getting rich off of you, the average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little is 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family tp 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund, again. Text family to 66866,   Kristen Tate  19:29   this is author Kristen Tate. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You   Keith Weinhold  19:46   welcome back to get rich education. Jim is with us, a prominent Florida home builder, and it's so interesting to talk to a home builder today because you think a Florida is overbuilding Ground Zero, even though, paradoxically. Nationally, we're still in a somewhat under built condition, where there's somewhat of a lack of available housing supply. Now, back on our April 28 show, exactly three months ago today, which I know that you listened to Jim, that show was titled, is Florida real estate doomed? And the short answer is no and I gave a number of reasons for that. You don't want to catch a falling knife as an investor. One prominent reason that Florida real estate is not doomed, and you're not catching a falling knife, and this is so close to being 100% predictable, is the fact that the growth is going to be there. It always has been in Florida, the in migration has been remarkable. If you go back and look at every census over about the last 200 years, since 1830 Florida has grown substantially every single census, oftentimes and usually at a rate greater than the national average. So in migration is almost certainly going to continue, which, over the long term, will put upward pressure on prices, upward pressure on rents, and help with rental occupancy as well. When you have a vacancy, that next incoming tenant is going to be there, I think that's about as close to predictable as it can possibly get. So talk to us more about the dynamics in Florida and the in migration.   Jim Sheils  21:26   It's funny, Keith, last year the net migration, and you can check through all the stats out there. The net migration number for Florida, that means more people, obviously coming in than leaving, and the surplus was just about 470,000 so we still have a growth of 470,000 and people have set up. Florida. Net migration is over. And I'm going, well, it was pretty superb during the pandemic, but to say it's over when it's about a half million up from last year, I think would be a misconception for at the very least. So we feel the people are still coming, and we're asking, what kind of housing do they need? Do they need that higher end, emotional market housing? Not what we're seeing, what they're needing is affordability. They're going to areas where there's still great job source, there's still great affordability, and that's what we look for. Where can we still build a new construction, single family home for under $300,000 and have great job source close by. That's one of the things that we look for. Also, where is there that under supply of that workforce housing? There are very key markets in Florida that you know about that we build in. We're saying, yeah, there's lots of stuff on the market up there, but there is no supply of this workforce housing. We're going to keep building. And as you know, we have not stopped building the last two years, when a lot of people have run for the sidelines because they weren't in our sector of the market.   Keith Weinhold  22:48   Of course, you're very strategic about where you build geographically. Talk to us about where those places are   Jim Sheils  22:54   right now. Keith, my pick of the year has been the greater Ocala region, and I know we've been working with a lot of GRE folks in that region. Couple of reasons why, still had the strongest migration of any area in the US. And you can look that up. U haul had it as number one destination place. This was when I say greater Ocala. I look at Ocala, citrus springs, Inverness, that central Florida area. You know, still in some of those markets, Keith, we're building homes for 200 60s, 270,000 that's new construction, and enabled to get great rent and great financing, which no we'll talk about. And the job source is remarkable right now. In fact, interesting statistic, Keith, I know you watch this closely. In Ocala, the median price of a home is just around 300,000 main Ocala, you can get cheaper when you go out to citrus springs and Inverness, down to the 260s 270s but the median family income is 72,000 and when you look at that, that is a very good affordability index. That's very high average family income compared to a low median price, and that's bringing in more jobs. That's bringing in more security. Couple that with Central Florida being one of the lowest hurricane risk zones in the state. It's the highest ground. It's the furthest inland, in fact, to ensure a single family home on average in that area, about $65 a month for full coverage, wow, for a duplex, $105 a month, full coverage. And that's the advantage of new construction buying in the right areas or low hurricane risk zone and great job source coming in. So my favorite market right now, Keith, is that Central Florida, Ocala, citrus springs, Inverness, that's where we're building. Oh, that's also when people say it's overbuilt. Well, no, because we know that we're actually building for a few of the big institutions that have way bigger analysis departments than we do, and they're seeing that it's so behind on housing that people are finally going in. It was kind of an overlooked market all through the pandemic for the most part, and now it's finally getting people's attention.   Keith Weinhold  24:58   A couple months ago. On the show, I shared how a close friend purchased a new build Ocala duplex through you, the rents he got were even a little higher than you projected, and his insurance premium is $694 again, this is for a duplex. I forget. I think the purchase price was 400 to 420k on this new build property.   Jim Sheils  25:23   Yeah. And it's funny when people, we have lots of investors coming from all over, but I was in California's, know, for years. And when people hear a quote like that, like that, you just said 650, $6 they think that's for the month. And I say, No, no, no, that's for the year. And again, that's the misconception now, but you could pick up and you could go to a coastal area again, like I said in a 1952 duplex built at two feet above sea level that's had hurricane issues before, and your insurance could be $8,000 a year. Yeah, that's where you have to really shop before you actually pull the trigger on property. What are the taxes? What are the insurance? I mean, this is going back to core play, core strategy, but it's something you really have to look at   Keith Weinhold  26:07   talk to us about the product types that you're offering, all new build, and what percent of single family, duplexes and larger   Jim Sheils  26:15   the main majority of what we're building right now is single family and duplex. The numbers work great. They're in high demand. You know, duplexes are a pretty interesting product, Keith, because you can put them in single family home neighborhoods, and, you know, families that couldn't normally rent, afford to rent a full house there, can avoid an apartment building, still feel like they have their own home and afford to be in that neighborhood. So I'd say 80% of what we're doing is a combination of single family home and duplexes, and then, as you know, we still are building some of our quads, our four unit buildings in some areas of northeast Florida, like Jacksonville,   Keith Weinhold  26:50   expenses have obviously been on the mind of real estate investors. More so since interest rates doubled to tripled in 2022 you're selling to investors. Investors need the numbers to work. Since they're not in the emotional market, we're in the market where we're looking at numbers, and that biggest expense, of course, is your mortgage principal and interest. So you found a way to deal with high insurance premiums, because on most or all of your properties that you sell to investors, those insurance premiums are excessively low. Talk to us about what you've done with the mortgage rates, for investors   Jim Sheils  27:27   it's such an important point here, Keith, I remember hearing a warren buffett thing years ago saying, Well, I'm not really in the real estate and that, but for me, when I look at it, a house is worth what it can rent for. And that always stuck with me being Warren Buffett, even though he's not heavily invested in real estate like we are. But for get his sage advice on that that's always stuck with me. So when you're getting a property, yes, you want to have fair price, but the terms around it that actually produce the cash flow, or what's the condition of the property, where is it? But then the other fundamental numbers, what is your insurance? What are your taxes? And then the final big thing is, if you're leveraging, which I encourage, what's your mortgage? And so as you know, we're probably as obsessed with financing as we are with building right, cuz that's our model. We gotta build right. We gotta finance right. So we're always looking for the most advantageous programs where we can team up with banks. They'll allow us to pay an abnormal amount of points, which means discount points that we will pay, not the buyer, we will pay for our buyers to get the rate the lowest and most advantageous. We don't like short term teaser loans, where your rate's going to adjust in 18 months or two years. We saw a lot of people get in trouble with that, at least I did back in the Oh 708, days. So we want long term financing and low interest that's going to produce a cash flow, even though it's new construction from day one. And so right now, our newest program, as you and I have been talking about very excited, is actually a 40 year loan. It's a 40 year loan. We're paying the rate down. Right now we're at five and a quarter. A few weeks ago is at 4.75 so it does fluctuate back and forth. But here's what's exciting, Keith, you're leveraging into a new construction property that has longevity and durability. The first 10 years. Interest only the next 30 years is a 30 year AM, 30 year fixed at five and a quarter. So when you start to do the numbers and go through it, we're almost doubling cash flow on our single family homes and duplexes for people in areas like Ocala, and that makes such a difference to getting them off on the right foot.    Keith Weinhold  29:32   This is a key distinction. Rather than focusing on slashing the price and your properties are already affordable, you buy down that rate by purchasing discount points to buy down that mortgage rate for the investor at the terms that you just described. Builders often like this more. They don't want to cut their prices, because that can become a comparable and lead to a downgrade in values. And investors actually like it more as well, because rather than discounting the price. A little more. It helps the investor more. When you buy down that rate and you do it for them, they are not the ones participating in the rate. Buy down you, the investor. You're paying the closing costs like origination fee and title insurance and things like that. Okay with those 40 year loan terms like you laid out fixed interest only for the first 10 years, and then after 10 years, it transfers to a 30 year fixed, amortizing loan, still with that same rate locked in. Is that right?   Jim Sheils  30:29   That's correct. So there's no sometimes people think, oh, then it's going to trigger upwards several percent. It stays the same the whole 40 year term. We just go from interest only to principal and interest and again, you know, because you talk about the leverage all the time, the most important time to really solidify the strength of an investment and get cash flow going. The most pivotal time is in those first few years. Yeah, we feel we're really giving people that strong foundation to get a cash flowing right off the bat and be able to look long term. The great thing about new construction is people say, Could you hold it that long? I said, I'm planning to with some of my new constructions. Hopefully I'll be a little old man or my children will own them. But you can look out that far and know that you're jumping your cash flow in those initial years when a lot of people may be falling backwards. In fact, when we talked about those emotional markets where people bought higher end properties because they looked good and they felt good to walk through, and then all of a sudden they're bleeding month in, month out for a year, two years, three years. That's when they're ready to wave the white flag. We find with our model, with getting that rate really low, we're accentuating the cash flow forward those first few years, Keith, so they're ready to keep going after a few years, instead of raise the white flag.   Keith Weinhold  31:41   Yeah, when we think about how you're helping investors here while moving product at the same time, the number of problems that are solved are remarkable because you're solving the higher mortgage rate problem by buying down the rates. You've got a low rate, you've got a low insurance premium, you as the investor are almost certainly going to have low maintenance and repair costs since it's new build. And what else do you do when it's new build? The tenant, when they move in, they're the first person that's ever lived in that property, which probably means they're going to have a longer tenancy duration, because it's hard to move up and move into something better than the product you're offering, especially with low affordability for first time homebuyers. In fact, tell us about your average tenancy duration   Jim Sheils  32:21   yeah. So as you know, Keith, I did a ton of fixer uppers. First 15 years of my career, I wore that rehab badge on my shoulder with pride. I loved rehab and old houses. And look, that's great. That's a great way to get going. But I transitioned into new construction a decade ago, and so we've been able to do a lot of comparisons. And you know, back in the day, when I was fixing up lots of properties and renting them out, the older properties, my average tenant would stay about 13 months. It was a little over a year, get them for a year, and then there was move. But that was the average 13 months. Looking back now, and we've been doing this almost a decade. When you look at our new construction model, that went from an average of about 13 months to just over three years with our new construction product. So as you know, if all of a sudden we're pushing back that first move out from a year or 13 months to over three years, that's a tremendous way again to get the right footing and directional on your investment. So that was a really pleasant surprise. I did not expect going to new construction, but jumping from a year to three years has been a nice surprise.   Keith Weinhold  33:24   This brings to mind for you as a passive investor, it's sort of analogous to buying an existing business or starting a new one from scratch yourself, whether it's a rental car company or a tomato farm. You know, a lot of people wouldn't think about getting into business, they think about buying their own business, starting it from scratch, and that's really difficult to do when you're an investor. This way, you're not doing a fix and flip yourself, which is analogous to starting your own business from scratch. You get to buy someone's existing business. You're buying an existing property, a new build one, in this case, and that way you can look at all the financials already and have it be done for you in that all done for you sort of way, just like it is here. Well, Jim, do you have any last thoughts about the Florida real estate market today, especially with the lucrative product type that you're offering to investors?    Jim Sheils  34:16   I would just remind people do your homework, because there's apples and there's oranges, and you gotta compare the two, and you have to do the homework on which segment of the market is healthy and which one is not. I wouldn't recommend you invest in the unhealthy segment of the market, but look where the fundamentals are working. And go back to that term, a house is worth what it can rent for. And if you can look at that, and also couple with stability of new construction, this is where we've seen ourselves make the most money most success with the least amount of time for our investors. So I highly encourage that recipe for anyone out there.   Keith Weinhold  34:53   In addition to being a builder, Jim's company also holds properties under management. For investors, just like you, they offer that for you. For the long term, they have over 1000 current investors, many of them are GRE listeners. You can learn more about the provider at GRE marketplace under Florida statewide, but to get a free strategy session about the latest in what they have for available inventory, and also to compare this provider to other providers, the highest flex, the highest ROI move that you can make yourself as the listener for your due diligence is to connect with a GRE investment coach. It's free at GRE investment coach.com, oh, it's been valuable. Jim, thanks for coming onto the show.   Jim Sheils  35:38   Thanks for having me. Keith.   Keith Weinhold  35:46   Oh, yeah, hearing it straight from a builder today. And you know, a lot of builders create these nice looking, emotional Type homes, the same ones that appeal to owner occupants. They build those higher end homes because they create more builder profit. Well, that's the segment that has become overbuilt today, this build to rent provider we're talking about here is dealing with a public that reads these articles about the Florida slowdown, though things are still good in this workforce housing market. Well, because the public reads headlines, this builder still has to step in with incentives. So really, this is a case study on what a home builder needs to do to adjust to public perception more so than the reality. That's why Jim and his company keep building when others are they keep building because they keep selling to savvy investors, including you, the GRE listener, conversely, the overbuilt emotional market segment, that's where Florida single family home prices are often about 500k or more, and many of them have stopped building. It's that here, with this workforce housing, brand new, single family rentals sell for the high 200k to 300k range in the three hundreds and duplexes in the four hundreds. We've been working with this provider for nearly a decade, and I've asked them, what can you do for GRE listeners? And these are the best incentives yet, is they basically are making discounts in your favor to deal with this public perception. And they are an interest rate buy down that they make for you, like we mentioned, currently to five and one quarter percent. They're also giving GRE listeners two years of free property management, a rental Protection Program, a six month eviction guarantee and a 210 builder warranty. When you see a builder warranty expressed that way, that means they cover two years on the small stuff, 10 years on the big stuff. The latest pro forma that I saw for their single family rentals had a purchase price of 325k and a cash on cash return of nearly 7% when you include all those generous incentives. So if you're looking for a new market to expand into the time and place could very well be here and now, some people wait for blue sky and everything to be perfect before they act well, that never happens. This is about as close as you'll get today. You'll either keep what you've got or change what you're doing here, Jerry, we constantly shop the nation for you. Our coaches help show you where those deals are that they found. And this is a potential opportunity. Here you can get on the calendar of one of our investment coaches for free. And if you like, start by asking about Florida new build property with all the incentives that you heard about here on GRE podcast, 564 at GRE investment coach.com until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  39:09   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  39:32   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers, it's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is. The Golden Age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read. And when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video, course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream. Letter, it wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text gre to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre to 66866   Keith Weinhold  40:48   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com  

Keith highlights the decline in college town real estate due to demographic changes and reduced international student enrollment.  The national housing market is moving towards balance, with 4.6 months of resale supply and 9.8 months of new build supply.  Commercial real expert and fellow podcast host, Hannah Hammond, joins Keith to discuss how the state of the real estate market is facing a $1 trillion debt reset in 2025, potentially causing distress and foreclosures, particularly in the Sun Belt states.  Resources: Follow Hannah on Instagram  Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/563 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation   Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, are college towns doomed. There's a noticeably higher supply of real estate on the market. Today is get rich education. America's number one real estate investing show. Then how much worse will the Apartment Building Loan implosions get today? On get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads in 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from Orchard Park, New York to port orchard, Washington and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. How most people set up their life is that they have a job or an income producing activity, and they put that first, then they try to build whatever life they have left around that job. Instead, you are in control of your life when you first ask yourself, what kind of lifestyle Am I trying to build? And then you determine your job based on that. That is lifestyle design, and that is financial freedom, most people, including me, at one time. And probably you get that wrong and put the job first. And then we need to reverse it once you realize that, you discover that you found yourself so far out of position that you try to find your way back by putting your own freedom, autonomy and free agency first. There you are lying on the ground, supine, feeling overwhelmed, asking yourself why you didn't put yourself first. Then what I'm helping you do here is get up and change that by moving your active income over to relatively passive income, and doing it through the most generationally proven vehicle of them all, real estate investing for income. We are not talking about a strategy that didn't exist three years ago and won't exist three years from now. It is proven over time, and there's nothing avant garde or esoteric here, and you can find yourself in a financially free position within five years of starting to gradually shift that active income over to passive income.    Keith Weinhold  3:29   Now, when it comes to today's era of long term real estate investing, we are in the midst of a real estate market that I would describe as slow and flat. Both home price appreciation and rent growth are slow. Overall real estate sales volume is still suppressed. It that sales volume had its recent peak of six and a half million homes moved in 2021 which was a wild market, it was too brisk and annual sales volume is down to just 4 million. Today, more inventory is accumulating, which is both a good news and a bad news story. I'm going to get to this state of the overall market shortly. First, let's discuss real estate market niches, a particular niche, because two weeks ago, I discussed the short term rental arms race. Last week, beach towns and this week, in the third of three installments of real estate market niches are college towns doomed? Does it still make sense to invest in college town real estate? Perhaps a year ago on the show, you'll remember that I informed you that a college closes every single week in the United States. Gosh, universities face an increasingly tough demographic backdrop ahead. We know more and more people get a free education. Education online. Up until now, universities have tapped a growing high school age population in this seemingly bottomless well of international students wanting to study in the US. But America's largest ever birth cohort, which was 4.3 million in 2007 is now waning. Yeah, that's how many Americans were born in 2007 and that was the all time record birth year. Well, all those people turn 18 years old this year. This, therefore, is an unavoidable decline in the pool of potential incoming college freshmen from the United States. And on top of that, the real potential of fewer international students coming to the US to study adds to the concern for colleges. This is due to the effects and the wishes of the Trump administration. It already feels like a depression in some college towns now among metro areas that are especially reliant on higher education, three quarters of them suffered weaker economic growth over the past 12 years than the US has as a whole. That's according to a study at Brookings Metro. They're a non profit think tank in DC, all right, and in the prior decade, all right, previous to that, most of those same metros grew faster than the nation did. If this was really interesting, a recent Wall Street Journal article focused on Western Illinois University in McComb Illinois as being symbolic of this trend, where an empty dorm that once held 800 students has now been converted to a police training ground, it's totally different, where there are active shooter drills and all this overturned furniture rubber tipped bullets and paintball casings, you've got to repurpose some of these old dorms. Nearby dorms have been flattened and they're now weedy fields. Two more dorms are set to close this summer. Frat houses and homes once filled with student renters are now empty lots city streets used to be so crowded during the semester that cars moved at a crawl. That's not happening anymore. It's almost like you're watching the town die, said a resident who was born in Macomb and worked 28 years for the Western Illinois Campus Police Department. Macomb, Illinois is at the heart of a new rust belt across the US colleges are faltering, and so are the once booming towns and economies around them. Enrollment is down at a lot of the nation's public colleges and universities starting next year due to demographics like I mentioned, there will be fewer high school graduates for the foreseeable future, and the fallout extends to downtown McComb. It's punishing local businesses. There's this multiplier effect that's diminishing. It's not multiplying for generations. Colleges around the US fueled local economies, created jobs and brought in students and their visiting families to shop and spend and growing student enrollment fattened school budgets, and that used to free universities from having to worry about inefficiencies or cutting costs. But the student boom has ended, and college towns are suffering. And what are some of the other reasons for these doomed college towns? Well, first, a lot of Americans stopped having babies after the global financial crisis, you've got a strong dollar and an anti foreigner administration that's likely to push international student numbers down on top of this, and then, thirdly, US students are more skeptical of incurring these large amounts of debt for college and then, universities have been increasing administrative costs and tuition above the rate of inflation, and they've been doing that for decades. Tuition and operating costs are detached from reality, and in some places, student housing is still being built like the gravy train is not going to end. I don't see how this ends well for many of these universities or for student housing, so you've really got to think deeply about investing in college town housing anymore. Where I went to college, in Pennsylvania, that university is still open, but their enrollment numbers are down, and they've already closed and consolidated a number of their outlying branch campuses. Now it's important notice that I'm focused on college towns, okay, I'm talking about generally, these small. Smaller, outlying places that are highly dependent on colleges for their vibrancy. By the way, Pennsylvania has a ton of them, all these little colleges, where it seems like every highway exit has the name of some university on it. That is starting to change now.    Keith Weinhold  10:21   Conversely, take a big city like Philadelphia that has a ton of colleges, Temple University, Penn, which is the Ivy League school, St Joseph's, Drexel LaSalle, Bryn Mawr, Thomas Jefferson, Villanova. All these colleges are in the Philly Metro, and some of them are pretty big. Well, you can be better off investing in a Philly because Philly is huge, 6 million people in the metro, and there's plenty of other activity there that can absorb any decline in college enrollment. So understand it's the smaller college town that's in big trouble. And I do like to answer the question directly, are college towns doomed? Yes, some are. And perhaps a better overall answer than saying that college towns are doomed, is college towns have peaked. They've hit their peak and are going down.    Keith Weinhold  11:23   Let's talk about the direction of the overall housing market now, including some lessons where, even if you're listening 10 years from now, you're going to gain some key learning. So we look at the national housing market. There is finally some buyer selection again, resale housing supply is growing. I'm talking overall now, not about the college towns. Back in 2022, nearly every major metro could be considered not just a seller's market, but a strong seller's market. And it was too much. It was wild. Three years ago, buyers had to, oftentimes offer more than the asking price, pay all cash. Buyers had to waive contingencies, forgo inspections, and they had to compete with dozens of bidders. I mean, even if you got a home inspection, you pray that the home inspector didn't find anything worse than like charming vintage wiring, because you might have been afraid to ask for some repairs of the seller, and that's because the market was so hot and competitive that you might lose the deal. Fast forward to today, and fewer markets Hold that strong seller's market status. More metros have adequate inventory. And if you're one of our newsletter subscribers, you saw that last week, I sent you a great set of maps that show this. As you probably know, six months of housing supply is deemed as the balance point between buyers and sellers over six months favors buyers under six favors sellers. All right, so let's see where we are now. And by the way, months of housing supply, that phrase is also known as the absorption rate nationally, 4.6 months of resale supply exists. That's the current level, 4.6 months per the NAR now it bottomed out at a frighteningly low one and a half months of supply back in 2022 and it peaked at 12 full months of supply during the global financial crisis, back in 2010 All right, so these are the amounts of resale housing supply available for sale, and we overbuilt homes back in the global financial crisis, everyday people owned multiple homes 15 years ago because virtually anyone could qualify for a loan with those irresponsible lending standards that existed back in that era. I mean, back then, buyers defaulted on payments and walked away from homes and because they had zero down payment in the home. Well, they had zero skin in the game to protect and again, that peaked at 12 months of supply. Now today, Texas and Florida have temporarily overbuilt pockets that are higher than this 4.6 month national number and of course, we have a lot of markets in the Northeast and Midwest that have less than this supply. But note that 4.6 months is still under six months of supply, still favoring sellers just a little, but today's 4.6 months. I mean, that's getting pretty close to historic norms, close to balance. All right, so where is the best buyer opportunity today? Well, understand that. So far, have you picked up on. This we've looked at existing housing supply levels here, also known as resale homes. The opportunity is in new build homes. What's the supply of new construction homes in the US? And understand for perspective that right now, new build homes comprise about 1/3 of the available housing supply. And this might surprise you, we are now up to 9.8 months of new build housing supply, and that's a number that's risen for two years. That's per the Census Bureau and HUD. A lot of builders, therefore, are getting desperate right now, builders have got to sell. The reason that they're willing to cut you a deal is that, see, builders are paying interest costs and maintenance costs every single day on these nice, brand new homes that are just languishing, just sitting there. Understand something builders don't get the benefit of using a home. Unlike the seller family of a resale or existing home, see that family that has a resale home on the market, they get the benefit of living in it while it's on the market. This 9.8 months of new build supply is why buyers are willing to cut you a deal right now, including builders that we work with here at GRE marketplace.    Keith Weinhold  16:30   And we're going to talk to a builder on the show next week and get them to tell us how desperate they are. In fact, it's a Florida builder, and we'll learn about the incentives that they're willing to cut you they're building in one of these oversupplied pockets. So bottom line is that overall, an increasing US housing supply should keep home prices moderating. They're currently up just one to 2% nationally, and more supply means better options for you. Hey, let's talk about this very show that you're listening to, the get rich education podcast. What do you like to do while you're listening to the show? In fact, what are you doing right now while you're listening to the show? Well, in a recent Instagram poll, we asked our audience that very question you told us while listening to the show, 50% of you are commuting, 20% are exercising, 20% are at work, and 10% are doing home chores like cleaning or dishes. Now is this show the number one real estate investing podcast in the United States, we asked chatgpt that very question, and here's how they answered. They said, Excellent question. Real estate investing podcasts have exploded over the past 10 to 12 years, but only a handful have true long term staying power. Here's a list of some of the longest running, consistently active real estate investing podcasts that have built serious legacies. And you know something, we are not number one based on those criteria. This show is ranked number two in the nation. Number one are our friends at the real estate guys radio show hosted by Robert Helms. How many times have I recommended that you go ahead and give them a listen? Of course, I'm just freshly coming off spending nine days with them as one of the faculty members on their summit at sea. Their show started in 1997Yes, on actual radio, before podcasts even existed, and chat GPT goes on to say that they're one of the OGS in the space. It focuses on market cycles, investing strategies and wealth building principles known for its international investor perspective and high profile guests like Robert Kiyosaki. All right, that's what it says about that show. And then rank number two is get rich. Education with me started in 2014 and it goes on to say that this is what the show's about. It says it's real estate centric with a macroeconomic and financial freedom philosophy. It focuses on buy and hold investing, inflation, debt strategy and wealth building. Yeah, that's what it says. And I'd say that's about right? And this next thing is interesting. It describes the host of the show, me as communicating with you in a way that's clear, calm and slightly academic. That's what it says. And yeah, you've got to be clear. Today. There's so much competing for your attention that if I'm not clear with you, then I'm not able to help you calm. Okay? I guess I remain calm. And then finally, slightly academic. I. Hadn't thought about that before. Do you think that I'm slightly academic in my delivery? I guess that's possible. It's appropriate for a show with the word education in our name. I guess it makes sense that I'd be slightly academic. So that fits. I wouldn't want to be heavily academic or just academic, because that could get unrelatable. So there's your answer. The number two show in the nation for real estate investing.    Keith Weinhold  20:29   How are things going with your rental properties? Anyway, I had something interesting happen to me here these past few months. Now I have a property manager in one market that manages quite a few of my properties, all these single family homes and I had five perfect months consecutively as a real estate investor. A perfect month means when you have 100% occupancy, 100% rent collection, and zero maintenance or repair costs. Well, this condition went on for five months with every property that they managed. For me, which is great, profitable news, but that's so unusual to have a streak like that, it kind of makes you wonder if something's going wrong. But the streak just ended. Finally, there was a $400 expense on one of these single family homes. Well, this morning, the manager emailed me about something else. One of my tenants leases expires at the end of next month. I mean, that's typical. This is happening all the time with some property, but they suggested raising the rent from $1,700 up to 1725, and I rarely object to what the property manager suggests. I mean, after all, they are the expert in that local market. That's only about a one and a half percent rent increase, kind of slow there. But again, we're in this era where neither home price growth nor rent growth have been exceptional.    Keith Weinhold  22:02   I am in upstate Pennsylvania today. This is where I'm from. I'm here for my high school class reunion. And, you know, it's funny, the most interesting people to talk to are usually the people that have moved away from this tiny town in Appalachia, counter sport, Pennsylvania, it's not the classmates that stayed and stuck around there in general are less interesting. And yes, this means I am sleeping in my parents home all week. I know I've shared with you before that Curt and Penny Weinhold have lived in the same home and have had the same phone number since 1974 and I sleep in the same bedroom that I've slept in since I was an infant every time that I visit them. Kind of heartwarming. In a few days, I'm going to do a tour of America's first and oldest pretzel bakery in Lititz, Pennsylvania with my aunts and uncles to review what you've learned so far today, put your life first and then build your income producing activity around that. Many college towns are demographically doomed, and even more, have peaked and are on their way down. Overall American residential real estate supply is up. We're now closer to a balanced market than a seller's market. We've discussed the distress in the five plus unit apartment building space owners and syndicators started having their deals blow up, beginning in 2022 when interest rates spiked on those short term and balloon loans that are synonymous with apartment buildings. When we talked to Ken McElroy about it a few weeks ago on the show, he said that the pain still is not over for apartment building owners.   Keith Weinhold  23:51   coming up next, we'll talk about it from a different side, as I'll interview a commercial real estate lender and get her insights. I'll ask her just how bad it will get. And this guest is rather interesting. She's just 29 years old, really bright and articulate, and she founded her own commercial real estate lending firm. She and I recorded this on a cruise ship while we're on the real estate guys Investor Summit at sea a few weeks ago. So you will hear some background noise, you'll get to meet her next I'm Keith Weinhold. There will only ever be one. Get rich education podcast episode 563 and you're listening to it.    Keith Weinhold  24:31   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties, they help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com that. Ridge lendinggroup.com, you know what's crazy?    Keith Weinhold  25:03   Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66 866, to learn about freedom family investments, liquidity fund, again, text family to 66866   Caeli Ridge  26:13   this is Ridge lending group's president, Caeli Ridge. Listen to get rich education with key blind holes. And remember, don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  26:31   Hey, Governor, education nation, Keith Weinhold, here we're on a summit for real estate on a cruise ship, and I'm with Hannah Hammond. She's the founder of HB capital, a commercial real estate lending firm, and the effervescent host of the Hannah Hammond show. Hey, it's great to chat   Hannah Hammond  26:48   you too. It's been so great to get to know you on this ship, and it's been a lot of fun,    Keith Weinhold  26:51   and we just met at this conference for the first time. Hannah just gave a great, well received presentation on the state of the commercial real estate market. And the most interesting thing, and the thing everyone really wants to know since she lends for five plus unit apartment buildings as well, is about the commercial real estate interest rate resets. Apartment Building values have fallen about 30% nationwide, and that is due to these resetting loans. So tell us about that.   Hannah Hammond  27:19   Yeah, so there is a tidal wave of commercial real estate debt coming due in 2025 some of that has already come due, and we've been seeing a lot of the distressed assets start to hit the market in various asset classes, from multifamily, industrial, retail and beyond. And then, as we continue through 2025 more of that title, weight of debt is going to continue to come due, which is estimated to be around $1 trillion of debt.    Keith Weinhold  27:44   That's huge. I mean, that is a true tidal wave. So just to pull back really simply, we're talking about maybe an apartment building owner that almost five years ago might have gotten an interest rate at, say, 4% and in today's higher interest rate environment that's due to reset to a higher rate and kill their cash flow and take them out of business. Tell us about that.   Hannah Hammond  28:03   Yeah. So a lot of investors got caught up a few years ago when rates were really low, and they bought these assets at very low cap rates, which means very high prices, and they projected, maybe over projected, continuous rent growth, like double digit rent growth, which many markets were seeing a few years back, and that rent growth has actually slowed down tremendously. And so much supply hit the market at the same time, because so much construction was developed a few years back. And so now there's a challenge, because rents have actually dropped. There's an overage of supply. Rates have doubled. You know, people were getting apartment complexes and other assets in the two or 3% interest rate range. Now it's closer to the six to 7% interest rate range, which we all know it just doesn't really make numbers work. Every 1% increase in interest you'd have to have about a 10% drop in value for that monthly payment to be the same. So that's why we're seeing a lot of distress in this market right now, which is bad for the people that are caught up on it, but it's good for those who can have the capital to re enter the market at a lower basis and be able to weather this storm and ride the wave back up   Keith Weinhold  29:08   income down, expenses up. Not a very profitable formula. Let's talk more about from this point. How bad can it get? We talked about 1 trillion in loans coming due this calendar year tell us about how bad it might be.    Hannah Hammond  29:23   So it's estimated that potentially 25% of that $1 trillion could be in potential distress. And of course, if two $50 billion of commercial real estate hit foreclosure all at the same time, that would be pretty catastrophic, and there would be a massive supply hitting the market, and therefore a massive reduction in property values and prices. And so a lot of lenders have been trying to mitigate the risk of this happening, and all of this distress debt hit the market at one time. And so lenders have been doing loan modifications and loan extensions and the extend and pretend, quote. Has been in play since back in 2025 but a lot of those extensions are coming due. That's why we're feeling a little bit more of a slower bleed in the commercial market. But you know, in the residential market, we're not seeing as much distress, because so many people have those fixed 30 year rates. But in commercial real estate, rates are generally not fixed for that long. They're more they could be floating get or they might only be fixed for five years, and then they've reset. And that's what we're seeing now, is a lot of those assets that were bought within the last five years have those rate caps expiring, and then the rates are jacking it up to six to 7% and the numbers just don't make sense anymore.   Keith Weinhold  30:36   That one to four unit space single family homes up fourplexes has stayed relatively stable. We're talking about that distress and the five plus unit multi family apartment space. So Hannah, when we pull back and we look at the lender risk appetite and the propensity to lend and to want to make loans, of course, that environment changes over time. I know that all of us here at the summit, we learn from you in your presentation that that can vary by region in the loan to value ratio and the other terms that they're talking about giving. So tell us about some of the regional variation. Where do people want to lend and where do people want to avoid making loans   Hannah Hammond  31:11   Exactly? And we were talking about this is every single region is so different, and there's even micro markets within certain cities and metropolitan areas, and the growth corridors could have a very different outlook and performance than even in the overexposed metro areas. So lenders really pay attention to where the capital is flowing to. And right now, if you look at u haul reports and cell phone data, capital is flowing mostly to the Sun Belt states, and it's leaving the Rust Belt states. So this is your southeast states, your Texas, Florida, Arizona, and these types of regions where a lot of people are leaving some of the Rust Belt states like San Francisco, Chicago, New York, where those markets are being really dragged down by all this office drag from all the default rates in these office buildings that have continued to accumulate post COVID. So the lender appetite is going to shift Market to Market, and they really pay attention to the asset class and also the region in which that asset class is located. And this can affect the LTV, the amount of money that they're going to lend based on the value of the property, also the interest rate and the DSCR ratios, which is how much above the debt coverage the income has to be for the lender to lend on that asset.    Keith Weinhold  32:26   So we're talking about lenders more willing to make loans in places where the population is moving to Florida, other markets in the Southeast Texas, Arizona. Is that what we're talking about here.   Hannah Hammond  32:37   exactly, and even on the equity side, because we help with equity, like JV equity or CO GP equity, on these development projects or value add projects. And a lot of my equity investors, they're like, Nah, not interested in that state. But if it's in a really good Sunbelt type market, then they have a better appetite to lend in those markets.   Keith Weinhold  32:56   Was there any last thing that we should know about the lending environment? Something that impacts the viewers here, maybe something I didn't think about asking you?   Hannah Hammond  33:04   I mean, credit is tight, but there's tons of opportunity. Deals are still happening. Cre originations are actually up in 2025 and projected to land quite a bit higher in 2025 at about 660, 5 billion in originations, versus 539 billion in 2024 so the good news is, deals are happening, movements are happening, purchases and sales are happening. And we need movement to have this market continue to be strong and take place, even though, unfortunately, some investors are going to be stuck in that default debt and they might lose on these properties, it's going to give an opportunity for a lot of other investors who have been kind of sitting on the sidelines, saving up capital and aligning their capital to be able to take advantage of these great deals. Because honestly, we all know it's been really hard to make deals pencil over the past few years, and now with some of this reset, it's going to be a little bit easier to make them pencil.    Keith Weinhold  33:04   This is great. Loans are leverage, compound leverage, trunks, compound interest, leverage and loans are really key to you making more of yourself. Anna, if someone wants to learn more about following you and what you do, what's the best way for them to do that?    Hannah Hammond  33:42   At Hannah B Hammond on Instagram, my show, the Hannah Hammond show, is also on all platforms, YouTube, Instagram, Spotify, Apple, and if you shoot me a follow and a message on Instagram, I will personally respond to and would love to stay connected and help with any questions you have in the commercial real estate market.    Keith Weinhold  34:27   Hannah's got a great presence, and she's great in person too. Go ahead and be sure to give her a follow. We'll see you next time. Thank you.   Keith Weinhold  34:40   Yeah. Sharp insight from Hannah Hammond, there $1 trillion in commercial real estate debt comes due this year. A quarter of that amount, $250 billion is estimated to be in distress or default. This could keep the values of larger apartment buildings suppressed. Even longer, as far as where today's opportunity is, next week on the show, we'll talk to a home builder in Florida, ground zero for an overbuilt market, and we'll see if we can sense the palpable desperation that they have to move their properties and what kind of deals they're giving buyers. Now until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, do the right thing before you do things right out there, and don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  35:33   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  35:56   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info. Oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  37:12   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.  

Keith discusses the rising cost of real estate, predicting that million-dollar homes will become common by 2033 due to: supply scarcity, demographic demand, inflation, and regulatory costs. Over half of U.S. states have cities with starter home prices over $1 million.  Hear about the challenges of investing in beach towns, citing rising insurance costs and maintenance expenses GRE Investment Coach, Naresh, joins the conversation to highlight the BRRRR strategy for income property investment. Resources: Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock’ on Thursday, 7/17. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/562 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, million dollar homes will be normal by 2033 I'll discuss why and exactly where they'll be arriving. Why are more beach towns going bust? What's in the big, beautiful bill for real estate investors? Then how to own income property with just 10% equity in it today on get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  0:28   Mid South home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider. Their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated, there's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com.   Speaker 1  1:53   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:10   Welcome to GRE from Palm Bay Florida to Palm Springs, California and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside one of the longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I think you know that by now, you can also find my written work in both Forbes and the USA. Today, million dollar homes could be coming to right where you live only as the average home, a typical home. Best said is the million dollar median priced home. They're increasingly common across America. We're going to look at the exact areas where this is going to happen next, and why. Though, real estate prices are only up about 2% annually. This time, a plethora of forces are conspiring to push median American home prices ever higher to a million bucks by 2033 the reasons for ever higher future prices on a national basis are supply scarcity. Though, homes aren't as scarce as they were, say three years ago, incessant demographic demand, continued inflation, tariff pressures, heightened regulatory costs, the rate lock in effect remote work and a perpetual construction labor shortage that makes it easier to find a unicorn than, say, a good plumber out there. All these things are conspiring to push long term prices up, up, up, and sadly, this will make first time home buyer dreams, well only dreams, not a reality for so many Americans. CBS News recently called first time homebuyers an endangered species for this reason. Hmm. Then I wonder if the US Fish and Wildlife Service is now protecting these beleaguered, endangered first time homebuyers. Now the typical Canadian single family home costs 779,500 Canadian dollars today. And get this now, of course, some US regions will have rising prices, and others falling prices in the shorter term, although the general direction is up, but more than half of us, states, 28 out of 50, already have at least one city where the median price for a starter home, just a starter home, is a million dollars or more. This is per realtor.com economist. More than half of states have that condition. Now I want a starter home that's defined as 80% or less of the price of an area's median Well, here we go. It is not just trophy cities anymore that are on the precipice of the million dollar club. It's these moderately priced cities that are next in line, and one trend is that they're located near already expensive markets. For example, Stockton, California is two hours inland from San Francisco, and Stockton is best known for well being two hours from San Francisco. That's about it, all right. Well, here is the 2023 median price. And it's 2033 projection, only eight years away, really, just a little over seven years away. This is where we're going. All right, Boise, from 465k up to $1,163,000 million $163,000 Boston, from 623k to 992k and again, these are 2023 median home prices, and then what they're projected to be in 2033 as these million dollar homes become typical, just in these somewhat moderately priced. US areas, let's continue Colorado Springs. 455k up to $1,020,000 I've made two trips to Colorado Springs in the past two years. I really like it. They're really livable with a nice little airport Denver. 548k up to $1,297,000 Honolulu, 638k up to $1,144,000 Portland, 501k to more than doubling to $1,052,000 Sacramento, 558 up to over $1.1 million Salt Lake City, more than doubling from 493k up to $1,064,000 Seattle, 694k up to $1,486,000 and finally, the aforementioned their Stockton, California, 579k up to $1,447,000 million dollar homes are increasingly abundant into places that are surely Not trophy cities anymore. They're projected to come to all these places by 2033 and this is very realistic, because consider this, what will a million dollars even be worth in 2033 just a little more than seven years away, what will a million dollars even be worth then at 3% inflation, just $789,400 All right. Well, what should you do with this information? It gives you perspective, waiting is not helping get comfy with million dollar homes that are like just kind of all right? And here's the thing, a million dollar home that used to be like posh that used to come with a waterfront view or a celebrity neighbor, and today you just get a popcorn ceiling in a mysterious draft in some entire counties, like I've told you before, in San Mateo County, California, the median home price is already over $2 million just an average home county wide. And I also mentioned to you that there's another California County, Santa Clara, California, where the median price is over $2 million but there are more Nantucket, Massachusetts, Pitkin, Colorado and Teton County, Wyoming, all over $2 million county wide. I mean, in places like this, a million dollar home is a gut job. I mean, it needs a renovation. In these places, a million dollar home costs less than half of the county median. So therefore it is so broken down that you might not even be able to get a conventional loan for that property. And notice that the Sun Belt is not on any of these lists for now, despite its growth, there's still vast land and cheaper housing there the southeast and the Midwest, they still feel like America's affordable housing frontier. But you've got to wonder, for how long and what else does this continued low affordability mean? It's the American. Emerging trend that few people see coming, but we've talked about here, it's that common tidal wave, this horde of new renters that are coming, priced out of million dollar homes. Your renters are coming, and what does this mean for you? Well, consider owning low cost rental property in those low cost parts of the nation. We help you do that here, completely free, at GRE investment coach.com a tidal wave of future renter demand means higher rents and higher occupancy rates. Your renters are coming.   Keith Weinhold  10:39   now, last week, on the show, I discussed the Airbnb arms race, how short term rentals really need a serious glow up and some major investment to compete in a lot of markets anymore. This week, let's discuss the trends in another real estate niche that's largely fallen on some harder times, and that is investing in beach town, something that might be more top of mind for us, as we are here in mid summer. The very best beach town for a bikini slim budget is Pascagoula, Mississippi, a gulf shore escape, where the typical listing will run you a mere 166k can you believe that now this gulf coast town of 22,000 people, it is somewhat of an aberration, though, be careful, Pascagoula is affected by a FEMA rule that really limits the amount of renovation that you can do there? Atlantic City, New Jersey, it's another beach town with a jaw droppingly Low typical list price of 242k yeah. Atlantic City, AC is the name long synonymous with gambling and Trump property port. Ritchie, Florida is another notably cheap beach town with just a 255k typical list price. And it's notable because back in 2019 GRE did a real estate field trip there where I and the property provider and a few speakers, we hosted you, and then we toured properties together in a coach, a tour bus, but those neighborhoods were actually about two miles inland, Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, still just 299k. Corpus Christi, Texas and Ocean City, Maryland, are two more notably cheap beach towns now, especially after talking about the million dollar homes and then you hearing about these cheap beach towns. You might be wondering, gosh, should I buy property for cheap in these beach towns? But, you know, buying the beach house is just the start. Rising. Insurance costs and maintenance costs have forced a lot of investors to question whether beach homes are too big of a gamble now with a few investor profiles here were interviewed first Levi Rogers, a retired Green Beret and a real estate broker in San Antonio, he recently shared how his property on the Gulf Coast went from $3,200 a year for insurance to over $11,000 and that's if you can even get coverage without bizarre exclusions, throw in new flood zone Redeterminations and wild HOA fee hikes due to inflation, and your profits are wiped out in an instant. That's what Levi Rogers says about his particular situation. Honestly, coastal property makes me more nervous than my first Million Dollar Listing. Despite loving beachfront real estate, that's what Los Angeles real estate agent Wesley Kang says he's seen changes that would shock most investors. Insurance costs broke another record at his Marina del Rey listing the owner just got hit with a $68,000 annual premium up from 15k last year, while his neighbor, two blocks inland, pays just 7k so in addition to hurricanes and slow and steady beach erosion, that has caused some homes to simply collapse and fall into the sea. Kang, the Los Angeles real estate agent, said his Malibu client just spent his entire summer rental income on mandatory seawall repairs. Another had to install $100,000 worth of water barriers just to keep his insurance. So is a beach home a good investment? Well, owning it really is not the easy, dreamy investment that it used to be. There are some investors that still think it's worth it, but they need to change their strategy. Roger said that he hasn't sold yet. He just. Had to adapt. That's the San Antonio real estate broker. He cut his rental period down to only the high season months. Raised his rates by 22% just totally ended low season bookings, and he promoted high end upgrades to make the numbers work. He says you have to run it like a hospitality business now, not a passive rental, so the ROI can still be there, but only if you're really on top of it, actively managing risk and costs and the guest experience. Otherwise, what you're doing is that you are just financing someone else's vacation. And this is along the lines of what I was discussing last week with short term rentals in general. Real Estate Investor Daniel Roberts, based in Idaho, he says beach properties are now riskier. He has reinvented his approach to stay solvent. He says we improved our rental by presenting the property as a luxury destination, adding concierge services with dining and boat tours and even fitness sessions. With this rental arrangement, we earned 18% more on rental income last year compared to the previous year, is what he says. However, still, our profits have decreased a little since we now pay so much more each month for insurance and for maintenance, if you're shopping for a beach house and hoping for a deal, it might pay to search a bit inland for cheaper properties and insurance rates, and then it's not really a beach house anymore. Elevation is your friend. Certain oceanfront areas are experiencing a steep drop in some places like Florida. I mean, can you buy the dip if you're looking for opportunities in investor areas like Florida, which saw a huge run up of people heading there during the pandemic, but their jobs require them to return to the office. If you're in the market for a vacation property that you can rent out and possibly use as a second home. There are beginning to be more and more choices. So the bottom line here is that many beach towns are in a bust. Their profitability is under attack, chiefly from these insurance premiums that have as much as 3x or more for many in the past three or four years, Hoa costs are up due to inflation, and then there's just simply the threat of more storms and more beach erosion, and just the stress and concern that causes even outside of the insurance cost, short term rentals tend to be right on the coast or A short walk from the beach. The best long term rentals tend to be inland, inland. Long term rentals are long where we have focused here on this show, and they tend to be stable and steady and frankly, kind of boring, but somehow boring in an interesting way, if that's possible, they plod along paying you five ways.    Keith Weinhold  18:05   Hey, is get rich education the number one real estate investing podcast in America. Are we number one? I've got an answer for you on an upcoming episode. It looks like the big, beautiful bill that was signed into law on the Fourth of July will be advantageous for real estate investors. It extends a lot of Trump's 2017, tax cuts and Jobs Act. There are modifications to opportunity zones in the big, beautiful bill. But the big story is that 100% bonus depreciation has been restored, reset, huge that applies to qualified property placed in service from January 20, 2025 through the end of 2029 now is the Time to accelerate acquisitions and renovations to leverage 100% bonus depreciation. I mean, this is great for investors. And what this does is it allows you to fully deduct the cost of qualifying renovations, property improvements and certain building components immediately, instead of you, having to spread the deductions out over several years. Major however, the big, beautiful bill does not do much of anything to help those beleaguered first time homebuyers that endangered species. In fact, in a previous version of the bill, it was going to open up millions of acres of public lands for new development. Now, if that happened, that could have added more housing supply and therefore kept home prices from perpetually rising, and therefore maybe helped first time home buyers. But that provision was removed from the bill before it got passed. All right, so those public. Lands will not be developed. That was not part of this bill, and that's a quick overview of what Trump's big, beautiful Bill means to real estate investors. To review what you've learned so far. Today, million dollar homes are coming to more places, and that's due to supply scarcity, demographic demand, incessant inflation, tariff pressures, heightened regulatory costs, the rate lock in effect, remote work and a perpetual construction labor shortage. More beach town properties are going bust due to surging property insurance costs and the big beautiful Bill has some serious positives for real estate investors, but not for first time home buyers.    Keith Weinhold  20:45   There is a lot happening here at GRE we, including me and our investment coaches here, are talking with you, our investors. We're talking with the nation's top property providers, as we always do, and there's just a lot of real estate news. How can you follow us to keep up on all this? Well, there are three main ways, and they're all free. There's no subscription cost. That is, firstly, through this show, the get rich education podcast. Secondly, our YouTube channel called get rich education. Yes, we are consistently branded. And the third main way to follow us is with our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter. Sign Up Free by texting GRE to 66 866, that's text GRE to 6668 66 and there you go. They're in they are the three main ways to follow us, podcast, YouTube channel and newsletter, and then also our social media channels, get rich education can be found at all the usual places, Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok and x, but our handle is Get Rich ed on x because there is a character count limit there. That's how to follow us. You can find our recommended property providers at GRE marketplace when you're getting actionable, and then to engage with us for a free strategy session to learn your goals and really put you on a financially free trajectory. You can do that with our investment coaches directly book time on their calendar at GRE investment coach.com   Keith Weinhold  22:25   what is happening with the future of the Fed and interest rates, and how can you put as little as 15% even 10% down on an income property? That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education    Keith Weinhold  22:39   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.   Keith Weinhold  23:11   You know what's crazy? Your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk, because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family 266, 866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66 866   Naresh Vissa  24:21   you this is peak prosperity. Chris Martenson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  24:42   It's terrific to have a familiar voice back on the show. It's an in house discussion with our own GRE investment coach since 2021 he's met with you, usually over zoom or the phone completely free to learn your own personal goals. Find the market that's right for you. Two. And he even goes as far as helping connect you with the exact property address that would make your next real estate pays five ways property, like say, you find 654, Maple Street in Little Rock, Arkansas or Indianapolis, Indiana. For you, he helps you through it all. And then he even helps you if you have any trouble after owning the income property. He's got the formal education with his MBA, and he walks the talk because he's a direct real estate investor, just like I am. Hey, welcome back to the show investment coach Naresh Vissa.   Naresh Vissa  25:32   thanks for having me back on. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and the loyal GRE listenership that we have. I think   Keith Weinhold  25:40   we enjoy talking to each other more than President Donald Trump and Fed Chair Jerome Powell do for sure. And I think if anyone's been paying any attention, there's been quite a feud between Trump and Powell, and it's been pretty entertaining. Trump has referred to Powell as Mr. Too late, like too late to make a decision. He has called Powell a numbskull. He has said Powell has a low IQ for what he does. That drama has been really interesting now. Powell's term ends in May of next year, so about 10 months from now. And I think most anyone knows that Trump wants an interest rate cut badly, but Powell keeps holding tight, and what Trump says is that he wants to lower the interest costs on our national debt. That's the reason that Trump gives for lowering the rates. But Powell's been reluctant to lower rates because it might stoke inflation. In reality, I suspect that Trump wants lower rates just to juice economic growth, like that's the real reason, and then Trump sort of hopes that inflation only catches up with the next president who comes in in 2029 and interestingly, back on July 1, Jerome Powell said, if it weren't for tariffs, he would have already lowered rates. What are your thoughts?   Naresh Vissa  26:55   Well this is a lot more complicated than it seems, and here's why Trump called Powell a lot of names, and I think some of those names hold true if we go back to when Biden was president, because it was in April, May 2021, that I was saying, hey, it's time to start increasing the interest rates, because inflation was going up significantly, very quickly, it was going up. And if you recall, Keith, I know you did many episodes on this, Powell kept saying, Oh, this is transitory. It's just transitory. And my whole justification was, well, look, a 25 basis point hike ain't gonna kill anybody. And they refused to do it for an entire year. Once we started seeing inflation going up. And by that point, inflation went up close to 10% that's how bad it got. That's it didn't hit the double digits, but it was very close to hitting the double digits. So yes, I do think Powell was a numbskull for not raising the rates back in 2021 but today I'm actually on Powell's side, because there are still inflationary pressures. And remember, Keith, the inflation target is 2% it's not two and a half percent. They haven't moved the goalposts. It's still 2% and last month, this is the media is not talking about this, except for get rich education today, inflation went up last month. So yes, it beat expectations, but it still went up. The expectations were that the terrorists were going to create this massive inflation and we would be back up at the three handle. And it didn't do that. But regardless, inflation still went up. So let's wait. Let's see what the CPI numbers show. I don't think we're going to be close. I don't think we're going to be under that 2% figure within the next two months, and that's why I think Powell is justified in holding to rate study. Now, with that being said, I do think because of Doge, we did an episode earlier this year on Doge, because of Doge, because of the latest ADP job numbers, the latest unemployment numbers, the private sector cuts that are happening at Microsoft and Google and a lot of other big name companies. I do think that inflation will eventually dip below 2% you look at the gas prices have hit four year lows. Look at egg prices have hit, I think four year lows or three year lows. I do think we'll dip below the 2% at some point. The question is, is, when is it going to be? You know, three months from now? Is it going to be a year from now? It all depends. So what does that mean for your question of, is Powell right? Is he wrong? Is he a numbskull? Who's right? I completely understand what you said is why Trump wants the rates cut, and that is, he wants to juice everything because he looks great, and it's a midterm election year, next year, and he doesn't want to lose his Congress. And I understand the political side of it, but the number one issue, the number one issue, according to almost every poll out there before. Election, the number one issue on voters minds was inflation. It's had things. The bleeding has not stopped, and the inflation is out of control. The groceries are too expensive. That's what's important. And I'm on Powell's side here. I think you have to be patient. On the other hand, Trump is being very aggressive, and he's looking to replace Powell, and he's going to put in his guy in there. I mean, the basic requirement for the job is you're going to get in there and slash entry. You're not even going to do a 25 basis point cut. You're going to go down to 1% fed upon rates overnight. That's what Trump wants. I don't know if you saw that, but Trump wants a 1% Fed funds rate pretty much overnight, because he's saying, oh, is going to save us all this money on the debt that we're paying, interest payments and data I get where both of these guys are coming from. I think the ideal scenario, because Powell, it looks like he's safe until maybe the end of the year. I think we hit that 2% point, definitely by the end of the year, and Powell will start cutting in September, we'll see a 25 that's what I think. I think we'll see a 25 basis point cut in September, maybe a 50 basis point cut in the next meeting after that, and and maybe even a 75 basis point cut in December. And that way, when the new guy comes in, he doesn't have to do this drastic COVID March, 2020, type of cut, of slashing rates close to zero overnight. We do it in a gradual I think that would be better for the country and for the economy and for the global economy. So that's where I see things. But regardless, regardless, we know for a fact that the interest rates, the cutting is beginning soon, and the rates are going to be very low sometime next year, if not by the end of next year, we know for a fact that the rates are going to be very, very low. And what that means for the housing market is that, and let's talk about the housing market really quickly, the inventory in the housing market is the supply side is very high. This is not 2021 2022 when homes are flying off the shelves and people were paying above asking price for homes. We're in a situation where the inventory has piled up. Home values have somewhat stagnated. If rates are going to bottom next year, then buying real estate. I don't want to say I'm not calling a bottom, but I'm saying that you can expect real estate home values to skyrocket once rates hit that 1% because of the Fed funds rate. So right now, we're seeing demand from investors because they're thinking what I'm saying, hey, the Fed is going to slash. We know that for sure because of Trump. And when that happens, institutions, individuals, they're going to start taking out debt, and the housing market's going to skyrocket just like stocks. I mean, really, most assets are going to skyrocket. So right now, I think, is an excellent, excellent time to be looking at buying real estate, and then you can just refinance later, when the rates bottom in a year or two,   Keith Weinhold  32:50   when you talk about high housing supply, I think what you mean is higher housing supply. Nationally, we're still 12% under supplied. It's just the fact that we have 30% more available housing supply in the one to four unit space than we did a year ago. At this time when we're talking about interest rates and things that have to do with the larger economy, here, you the listener should be aware that Naresh has often been tapped and interviewed by major network television on his opinions on these sort of broader economic issues, so he is qualified that way. And to give you an idea with what we're talking about with this desire to get the Fed funds rate down to 1% whether that happens or not, today's Fed funds rate is around 4.3% just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the potential cut, I don't forecast interest rates because it's very difficult to do, but it's interesting that Naresh has done some of that, and let's remember that Trump is actually the one that appointed Jerome Powell back in Trump's first term, and there's been a good bit of speculation around who the next appointee might be. In fact, if that appointee is named several months before Powell's termination of his term in May. Some people think that could be Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, that that alone could change the dynamic, that you would get someone more likely on board to make rate cuts and name them before they actually come into office.   Naresh Vissa  34:14   Well, the President decides he appoints that position, and we know for a fact 100% Trump is only going to put his person in there, man or woman, we don't know, but he's going to put his person. And the basic requirement for the job, it's not a PhD from Harvard or being a multi billionaire like Scott Besant. The basic requirement for the job is cutting the rates to 1% the Fed funds rate to 1% that's the bare minimum basic requirement for the job, and there are apparently lines of people who are lining up because they think they fit that requirement. So we know that's coming. We know it's coming at the latest, next year, like I said, Because Trump said it himself, and to be calling somebody a numbskull and all these names, he's very serious about this. It's an issue that means a lot to him. And again, I get where Trump's coming from. The government would save a lot of money on interest payments. And Trump's justification is, inflation is low, let's just try it, which I somewhat agree with. He says, Let's just try it, and if the inflation goes back up, then you just raise the rates. Don't you know, Powell was too late in 2021 the next guy won't be too late in raising rates this time around if the inflation does go back up. So it's a different strategy that would definitely juice the economy overnight. Of course, he wants that. Everyone's got their own opinions. I'm of the opinion. I think the Fed actually is for the most part. Post 2022 has done a good job. In fact, I did an episode with you, I think, a year and a half ago, saying that the Fed should have done more rate hikes, because we would have been at 2% inflation a year ago had the Fed done one or two more rate hikes, in my opinion. And we saw at the end of Biden's presidency, inflation started going back up when the Fed actually cut rates, when they should have been raising rates previously. So with that being said, this is a good opportunity for investors, because we are in that doldrum right now where we know the rate cuts are coming, at least we, you and I and GRE listeners know that the rate cuts are coming. Not everybody knows that they're coming, because they may not pay attention or follow this stuff as closely as we do. We know that they're coming, and what that means for the housing market is, like I said, juice. We can see juice in stocks. We can see juice and housing. We can see juice and Bitcoin and other commodities.   Keith Weinhold  36:35   Well, you use the word doldrum. Yes, the housing market is in somewhat of a doldrum. We have lower transaction volume than we have historically, for sure, and really that's led by we need to keep in mind as investors, that that's lower owner, occupant purchase volume, because investor purchases have stayed pretty steady.   Naresh Vissa  36:56   Yes, I'll say this, Keith, we work with a lot of different providers all around the country. I want to say we're up to something like 30 different providers in 20 different markets or so. When these partners are calling me saying, Hey, we got all these properties and send me your people and you know, let's do business together and help us find more investors, then I know that the housing market has somewhat stalled. It's not doing terrible, but I know that it's when those providers aren't calling me, or when they even cut off the relationship and say, Hey, I don't want to talk to you anymore. I don't want to work with you anymore. Then I know, hey, it's a really hot housing market. They don't really need me. And I'll tell you right now, every other day I have a partner of ours, I had to tell them to stop call. I said An email will do, or a text message will do. You don't need to call and leave me a bunch of voicemails. I have people calling me every day saying, Hey, we got all these properties, and they're amazing and they're beautiful, and send your people to us, which tells me that it could be actually a good time to start buying. Because it's not like I said, 2021 it's not 2022 it could be a good time right now, because the investor will hold more leverage, and the incentives that these partners are offering are second to none. I've never seen incentives this good. I mean, it's not just the free property management, it's not just the closing cost credit. It's negotiating prices of homes. It's getting cash back at closing, so just literally having a check overnighted to you that's in the five figures, cash back for buying property. So overall, I think it's a really, really good time right now to get into real estate, probably one of the best times, if not the best time since I joined GRE at the end of 2021   Keith Weinhold  38:40   of course, Ken McElroy was just here on the show with us a couple weeks ago, talking about what a good time it is to buy from his perspective as well. But yeah, Naresh, I appreciate that you're kind of letting the listener peek behind the curtain a little bit. We really get a good read on the pulse of the market here, and part of our job is to vet those providers that we work with, yeah, the race. Well, one property strategy that almost transcends eras is the BRRRR strategy. It's such a popular strategy with investors, because you can get in to a deal and have so little of your money left in the deal that you could end up with 10 to one levered. So the burr strategy, that's probably the most popular strategy with our investors. So tell us more about that.   Naresh Vissa  39:27   We've done several webinars already about Bert, and this has become the most popular strategy with our investors, hands down the amount of volume that we're seeing with our investors, people who keep buying more and more because the first one worked out. Now there are some that didn't work out, and that has more to do with the provider than it has to do with the strategy. The strategy is simply buy a property that needs to be completely rehabbed, refurbished. It's you buy a property, as is, you take out a hard money loan to renovate the property, to gut it, to update. It, bring it up to speed. Or you can pay cash. So a lot of people say, Oh, I don't have the cash to pay for such a property. So they're the hard money loan is there. Or you could pay cash. Our recommendation, my recommendation, personally, is take out the hard money loan, because you have that extra layer of protection, that extra body who will make sure that you're not getting taken advantage of, because that's a problem that we've seen with BRRRR, where some of the providers, some of the sellers, they'll sell the property, and then they just disappear after that. And we don't want that to happen. We want the rehab to actually get done, because the real value is by doing the rehab, making the house nice, renting it out to a tenant, and then refinancing the property, because the home value is going to appreciate so much. In some cases, some of our investors got 100% appreciation from what they bought the property at, and they were able to use that equity, 100% of that equity into the down payment, into other fees, so they didn't have to pay anything out of pocket for the property. So that's the beauty of the BRRRR strategy. And like I said, what's most important? Because we've already done two web it. We've done a Memphis burr webinar, we've done a Cleveland burr webinar. Now we're doing a little rock BRRRR webinar, and I think this is the best burr out of all the burs that we've done. And the reason is because the team we're working with, they have a legitimate company operation. They have a property management division, they have a rehab division, they have a sales division, they have a management division. This is not like a one man show or a two person company trying to do all these rehabs all at once. So they're very here's the schedule. This is what we have to do, very accurate and so yes, their pro forma numbers aren't going to be as aggressive as what our investors have seen with previous BRRRR providers. But the problem with those aggressive numbers is that a lot of the providers, they overinflate those numbers, and they don't follow through, let's say, on the rehab, or they do the rehab, and the appraisal does not come back at an amount that met the proforma. So I'm just really excited about this, because Little Rock is a new market that we've entered into. We have not done a lot of Little Rock promotion, a lot of Little Rock property. So it's a new market, number one and number two, it's the team that's there. This is the best of the best team. And if somebody came to me and said, Hey, I want to do a bur. Where should I do it? You've got all these different webinars and podcasts on burrs. Where should I do it? I would say bur Little Rock is where you want to do it, because you're going to sleep way better at night, and the process is going to be way smoother than the others. Yes, the pro forma numbers, they're not going to be as appealing, or they're not going to be as outlandishly high as those other markets, but those other markets, Memphis, Cleveland, there's a reason why those numbers are so high. And like I said, it's this team in Little Rock, amazing team, Keith, I know you've had some calls with them. We interviewed the their head Alex on last week's podcast episode. He and I are going to be doing this upcoming webinar on BRRRR little rock this Thursday, and we hope to see everybody there go to gre webinars.com, gre webinars.com, right now to register for that webinar.   Keith Weinhold  43:14   It's this Thursday, a live event that you can attend from your own home. And the benefit of you attending live is you can have your questions answered in real time. You can hear other attendees questions, which will help educate you on this process. And yes, I don't know if this will ever happen again. We do have Alex leading the bur strategy in Little Rock. He's been doing this for 15 years. He's got his vetted, proven team and a great system for doing this, so that so much of it is all done for you. And   Naresh Vissa  43:47   one more thing that I'll say, because this has become very popular with our online special event attendees, they hear podcast episodes like this, and they say, Hey, I want to jump on this before the live event, because all those other people are going to be on, and I want to jump. So I want to share, or Keith, I'll let you share our link for people to just reach out to me if you want to schedule a meeting or just email me. Just reach out to me if you don't want to wait until the webinar, the online special event this Thursday, if you want to get a head start, please absolutely reach out to me.   Keith Weinhold  44:20   That's a great thought. You can go to GRE investment coach.com right now and get on the race's calendar so that you can have a free meeting. Any last thoughts about Thursday's big event?   Naresh Vissa  44:32   like I said, it's going to be Thursday evening. The time is going to be at 8pm Eastern Time. Thursday, 8pm eastern the webinar, online special event will last about two hours. Our listeners, our followers, love these online events because they're highly interactive. We get everybody involved. They're fun, and the reason why they last two hours is because the people who attend are having such a good time. Them that they want it to last that long. I remember a long time ago when we used to do these online events, and they'd only last 30 or 40 minutes, and then that was the end. But now our file loves them so much. I think if you've never attended one of our online special events, you'll definitely want to attend this, because it is the timing is perfect before all these rate cuts, as the housing supply inventory is at a 12 month high. So the timing is is really good. The incentives are excellent. And like I said, we know interest rates are going to be slashed sometime next year, so you can always refinance later, but but getting in at these prices is going to be a true gift. So gre webinars.com, to register for this online special event.   Keith Weinhold  45:52   We are all looking forward to it this coming Thursday. Narration, it's been great having you back on the show.    Naresh Vissa  45:57   Thanks, Keith.    Keith Weinhold  45:58   Yeah. Fruitful in house chat, as always, with one of our investment coaches, Naresh, that's how you can leave as little as 10% down on an income property. When you do that, cash out refi with the burr strategy, you'll get in at today's lower prices, they tend to be 140 to 160k in Little Rock, Arkansas. You'll lock in this year's rates with that low price, with the BRRRR acronym, meaning buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat. Well, that refi is a little ways down the road after your initial purchase. Longer term, if interest rates go up, you'll be glad that you got today's rates. And if interest rates go down, which many expect, then you'll refi. The only thing bigger than the next Fed interest rate decision or the naming of a new Fed chair is Thursday's GRE live event itself, get ready. Really, the event presentation typically takes an hour or less. The rest of the time is your questions and conversations, so show up from the comfort of your own home, maybe with a beverage this Thursday, and since it's in the evening, probably not a stimulant, maybe a yerba mate, besides seeing real life case studies and understanding how the burst strategy works, how to optimize it and the mistakes to avoid, expect access to available Little Rock burr properties, actionable opportunities. Should you so choose? Sign Up Free at gre webinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  47:50   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  48:14   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866. While it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre 266, 866,   Keith Weinhold  49:30   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com  

Keith discusses the competitive nature of short-term rentals (STRs) and the need for hosts to offer luxury amenities to attract guests. Long time investing pro, Alex, joins us to cover the BRRRR strategy in Little Rock, Arkansas, an investor-advantaged market, emphasizing its low property taxes and stable cash flow. They explain the BRRRR process, including: buying, renovating, renting, refinancing, and repeating.  The strategy allows investors to scale their portfolios with minimal initial capital, offering a 0% management fee in year one and 4% in year two.  Resources: Register here for the live online event to learn about ‘Unlocking BRRRR Deals in Little Rock on Thursday, July 17th at 8PM Eastern. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/561 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai    Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, anymore when you own short term rentals like Airbnbs and vrbos, you are in an all out arms race competing to provide amenities like never before. Then what happens when you take the popular burr real estate strategy and overlay it with one of the most investor advantaged markets in all of America. It's a lucrative opportunity. You'll see how and why today on get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  0:32   Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows, an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau, and now over 5000 houses renovated their zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis. Get to know mid south enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Speaker 1  1:58   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:14   Welcome to GRE from North Conway, New Hampshire to North port, Florida and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education, happy July, the second half of the year. And my favorite month of the year is your Airbnb fancy enough, because anymore STRS short term rentals have gotten so competitive that hosts treat their properties like white lotus level hotels. Now, STRS were never passive, but they become even less so it is active income. Once upon a time, Airbnb hosts could just sort of drop a few colorful throw pillows on their fold out couch and make a killing. But no more those days are so far gone. The STR game has changed drastically. I mean, you used to be able to list a basic home with generic furniture that you got at Costco, minimal amenities, no Wi Fi, and still get it booked, but today, it will sit empty unless you offer more than just a place to sleep. You have to build an experience for Airbnb guests. Now, increasingly, hosts are doing things like adding outdoor kitchens, arcade machines, putting greens, even basketball. And now, though these upgrades do cost a lot up front, they can pay off. These amenity types can double your nightly rate, but they come with more responsibility and more to maintain. I mean, more guests are expecting a flawless experience. The trend is that Airbnbs are becoming full scale hospitality operations, and if you don't treat it like one, you're going to fall behind. So simply having a nice house that just no longer cuts it, running a short term rental today is nothing like it was even two or three years ago. You used to be able to stand out with a decent bed and colorful throw prolos, but now guests are basically comparing your place to boutique hotels. Hosts are deeply investing in design, forward furniture, layered lighting and featuring spaces that some market as what they call moments like cozy reading corners in these luxurious bathroom setups, adding things like welcome guides and even complete brand identities with a proper. Name and even a logo and a story to give the place some personality, even writing up a history for your property, even if it's not that historic. Now, these sorts of tactics, they actually do, seem to work. Guests will give you more bookings, better reviews, and guests even share the space on social media like it's somewhat of a lifestyle destination now sometimes STR hosts, they team with these other platforms to add welcome champagne in ice buckets on site, sommeliers, private chefs, daily, housekeeping on demand. 24/7 textable concierges, heated plunge pools and other amenities through you partnering with some of these platforms and these upgrades don't come cheap. The publication called the playbook, they featured an STR in Sag Harbor, New York, where the property owner invested $85,000 into overhauling the landscaping and adding a James Turrell Inspired LED light installation. But overall, these improvements boost rental revenue by an average of 40% over what the property was collecting previously. All right, so this is a case study now, though, this STR trend of offering deep hospitality and luxury amenities has turned into more of a job and less about passive income. You know, really, this is free market capitalism, because this is competition to see who can provide the best service at the lowest price, but that's what it is. So this is making real estate less of a good and more of a service. Short term rentals soaring supply, day rate compression and AI driven pricing tools. That means that the just this all nice house with good photos thing that no longer cuts it. It is an amenities arms race now, and of course, this is a national trend. It doesn't mean that it's happening absolutely everywhere. In some places, hosts are able to charm guests simply with something like a freshly baked loaf of banana bread, but the consensus is whether they spend a little or a lot, Airbnb hosts unanimously say that they've got to work harder in order to keep guests happy. It's become more of a business and less of a side hustle than it used to be. You've got more hosts leaning into higher upfront investments because they know guests will pay for a sort of turnkey, Instagrammable experience. And this really is a classic early adopter issue, just like a lot of things, Airbnb launched in 2007 by the way, so this sort of first wave of Airbnb hosts back around 2012 to 2015 they were riding a blue ocean back then. There was virtually no competition. There weren't any standards, and there were plenty of bookings, and that made a lot of hosts pretty fat and happy. But that's not where we are now, really. The bottom line is that in many markets, short term rentals have transitioned from partial passivity to all out hospitality. That's the Airbnb arms race. The average Airbnb nightly rate for North America. Do you care to venture a guess at the average nightly rate? It is approximately $216 per night, and that right there is up 26% from 2020 so it is not up as much as house prices over that five year period from 2020 really, the Airbnb rate is up about as much as the long term rental rate.    Keith Weinhold  8:58   While we're talking numbers a quarter recently ended. Let's hit on our asset class rundown. What's happened to home prices in the past year? Well, when you aggregate all these sources, Zillow, Freddie, Mac case, Shiller, FHFA, in totality, home prices are up 2% single family rents are up 3% apartment rates are down 1% due to their oversupply. The 30 year mortgage rate was 6.9% a year ago, and it's 6.8 now. CPI inflation is 2.4% expressed in year to date terms. Now the SP5 100 is up 5% in the first half of this year, ending near 6200 the dollar is down. That means that it takes more of them to buy gold, which is over $3,300 an ounce, gold is up 27% just from the start of this year, and the oil price is still depressed in the 60s. Per dollar for a barrel, Bitcoin still strong, ending the quarter at 106kthat's your asset class rundown, which we do about quarterly.    Keith Weinhold  9:57   Hey, I really enjoyed meetingside. Of you on this year's terrific real estate guys Investor Summit at sea was concluded about a week ago. It was two days on land in Miami, followed by a week of conferences and fun aboard a Caribbean cruise ship. I really got to meet you and get to know you, because we had nine days together, and as one of the faculty members, I hosted a table at dinner every night, and each night the attendees rotated around to my table, so I got to meet a lot of you and really get to know you, and you got to know me. Yeah, it was as interesting for me to meet you in person, perhaps, as it was for you to meet me, because I like to hear what you're doing in real estate, investing, in everything else. I gave a main stage presentation that was almost an hour of all me, all GRE and also served on five different panel discussions. Oh, it's such a unique event. Get this, I was kind of dressed up to give my main stage presentation, which so many of you, by the way, told me afterwards, that that was your favorite presentation of them all, all week long, because each faculty member made a main stage presentation. But what I want to tell you is, just a few hours after I presented, on the cruise ship, I was shirtless in the water throwing a football around at the beach in St Thomas Virgin Islands. What an event. Fantastic to meet a number of you in person. So far today, I hope what I've shared with you has been informative. Next. It's something informative and really actionable that you can make lucrative that's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  11:45   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    Russell Gray  12:16   You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you, the average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back, no weird lock ups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Russell Gray  13:30   Hi. This is Russell Gray, co host of real estate guys radio show, and you're listening to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream. You Keith,   Keith Weinhold  13:38   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking to a guest not only about an investor advantaged market, but when you overlay a certain strategy with it, this can be highly lucrative for investor returns, and we're with a long time investing pro Alex, welcome onto the show.    Alex Craig  14:04   Hi Keith, thank you.    Keith Weinhold  14:05   Well talking about top US cashflowing market, let's get right to it. Tell us about yours.   Alex Craig  14:11   Little Rock, Arkansas. It's a market that we've been in since 2012. I personally invest there. I've got about 75 doors of multi family, single family. And the reason why it works is just cash flow. Over the years, we've had investors from around the country that have owned portfolios where maybe they're somewhere in Phoenix or Dallas, where they're kind of speculating. This is not a speculation market, and that's why it works for myself. It's consistent. It's very linear, and linear is a word that we use a lot to describe. And if you're going to be a cash flow investor, and that's why I'm in it, it's you want a linear market. You don't want ups or downs, and then you want to make sure it's a growing market too. And Little Rock checks all the boxes of what you would want in a stable cash flow environment market.   Keith Weinhold  14:57   And I think a lot of our investor listeners are. Already pretty keen on that. You get a high ratio of rent income to purchase price. You have laws that heavily favor landlords over tenants. But Alex, in today's environment, people are more conscious about rising operating expenses and higher mortgage expenses, and that's really one advantage that Arkansas can give right now, is with those low property taxes   Alex Craig  15:20   Keith,it's so interesting you mentioned that because I did have a conversation with a client of ours that had a property in another market that he had mentioned how his property taxes had gone up and gone up substantially, which that's to expect. I mean, after COVID, there was a lot of markets saw a huge boost, especially with markets that saw hedge funds come in. Hedge Funds, I believe, ruined a lot of markets, raised the prices. And another reason I like Little Rock, it flies under the radar. You think is Little Rock is a small market, but it's really not. It's, I mean, the population of the city is 250,000 but the metro area, which is a 50 mile radius around Little Rock, is much bigger. And the entire, not only the entire market, metro area, feeds off little rock, really, the entire state does too. But that being said, because it's floating under the radar, the property tax have remained low. They've taken a little bit of bump over the years, because the values steadily go up, but they started low anyway. So with operating costs of insurance, insurance has gone up for a lot of for my own properties in other markets, it's going up, and it's going up in Little Rock too. I mean, it's just the name of insurance, but property taxes have remained low. They've always been low, and that's really a big help as to why this market works for us.   Keith Weinhold  16:30   Talking about flying under the radar, you're talking about, therefore evading a lot of that hedge fund money. Tell us more about the market and some of those anchors and drivers.   Alex Craig  16:40   It's a blue collar town. You've got logistics. Is a market, or is a segment of the industry that has really come on strong over the last few years, Amazon has really put a footprint in the market. Healthcare is a huge, huge market, like I mentioned earlier, not only does the region feed off the direct to the entire state, it's the hub of healthcare for the entire state of Arkansas, of course, it's government. Government provides a lot of jobs. The good thing about government jobs is they're maybe not on a national level anymore, but on a local, state level, they're very it's hard to get let go from a government job, unless now, not on a federal level, but it's very steady, so a lot of steady blue collar jobs, and that's what you want for a strong resident base, especially in the type of properties and 1000 to $1,200 price range, you want those blue collar study growing jobs.   Keith Weinhold  17:31   Yes, you do have those there. It's funny. I'm smiling a bit because I used to be a state government employee, and there's just no way that they ever would have fired me. I was so protective I had to quit in order for them to have to replace me at that job. I'm wondering about the new supply that's come on, Alex, because a number of markets have added supply. I know, for example, that Redfin reports that little rock median home price appreciation is up 7.3% year over year, and with the dynamics going on in the market recently, that typically tells us that there hasn't been that much new supply added. Is that what's going on there?   Alex Craig  18:11   No, there hasn't been a lot of new supply. I just think with little rock and every other market, the mortgage rates have gone up. Home ownership is down during COVID. It was really hard to get an investment property. For what we did, sending out our list every week. It was basically send out our properties, people hitting send and not even knowing what they were reserving. Rates were just low, right? Everybody's jumping in. It was hard to get inventory. So now what we have is, you know, higher rates that scares some people off. It pushes some people out on the market, but it also creates opportunity. I feel like this is the easiest time I've been investing in real estate since 2007 that was the foreclosure crisis, Great Recession, and it was a lot of foreclosures on the market, and that's how I built a big chunk of my portfolio. But now it's just a matter of there's not as many people in it. So for us, there's just more acquisitions for us to go out and get. There's still distressed homes on the market where individuals don't want to hire a realtor, they just want all cash offers. They're ready to get rid of them, and that's where we step in. And without as much competition like I said, we kind of fly under the radar. I feel it creates more just supply inventory for us and for me as an investor, but also for our clients too   Keith Weinhold  19:23   with that in mind, and again, a lot of our audience is already on board, knowing that little rock in Arkansas is a good cash flow market with stable, long term fundamentals, but in order to make it more profitable, you've overlaid it with a certain strategy there in Little Rock. Tell us about that.    Alex Craig  19:45   So the BRRRR strategy, yes, it's able to work now because there's not as many buyers in the market. So basically, the way the burrs strategy works is we acquire a property. I'm just going to use very round, simple numbers for simple math makes it easier on me   Keith Weinhold  19:58   and we're talking the BRRRR. Strategy that's buy, renovate, rent, refinance, and repeat. Those are the five investor steps.   Alex Craig  20:07   correct. And so that's what we do, is we buy. Let's just say the B. Let's take the B, for example, we buy a home, and we buy it for 60,000 where I'm just talking like if I own the home, and then I put $20,000 into the deal. So now I'm all into it for 80,000 and you have to remember, there's some in between, cost of closing costs. I'm just talking just very general strategy. You buy it for 60, you put 20 into it, and all of a sudden you're in it for 80, and the value comes back at 100 so you're in it for 80% of the after repair value. Most Fannie Mae lenders will do 75% so if you purchase a house outright, you put 20% down, but if you are doing a refinance, you're able they'll do it at 75% so instead of buying a home and putting it down payment upfront, you're using equity in the deal. And that's what the burst strategy is, buy renovate. So we buy it, we renovate it, we refinance it, we rent it out, and then you repeat it. So it allows for investors to scale their portfolios quicker and stretch their money a little bit further. So if you've got, I've got $50,000 and I want to invest in real estate, if you purchase a home, you're bound by the down payment. Once you put that down payment, it's, I wouldn't call it sunk cost, but that money's gone for reinvesting. The burr model allows you to stretch that money a little bit further. Now, like I said, I gave pretty basic numbers to the deal, but that's what you're going for. Some equity in the deal, and that's what we're able to provide for ourselves and for our clients.   Keith Weinhold  21:38   So let's review that numbers on a little rock burp, making a $60,000 purchase with a pre renovated property. Then the investor puts another 20k into it for the renovation. So now they're all in for 80k and they get a 100k appraisal on that property, and then they can borrow, say, 75% of that there, that is the refi portion, the fourth letter of the BRRRR acronym. So therefore they've got 80k into it, and they got 75k back, meaning they would only have 5k into it, but maybe another 5k for closing costs, and now they only have 10k in to a 100k property. That's the appeal. That's what we're talking about here with the BRRRR   Alex Craig  22:22   strategy. I mean, you're exactly right. And as I mentioned, I use some really basic numbers, because when you're using, you know, 100,060 and 20 makes them very basic. It's pretty hard to find out a deal worth 100,000 these days, even when we started in the industry, 100,000 was a pretty cheap after pair value. Probably the mean value of the homes that we're dealing in is probably about 140 to 140 to 160 but same principle, based on those same logic that what we just talked about, I wouldn't say, you know, five or 10k out of pocket, but if you're talking about purchasing a deal with 25% down versus doing a bur you're probably going to be in it at 15% Out of pocket costs 10 to 15% as opposed to putting a down payment of 25% but the big thing is, you're getting money back, and you're not putting as much so just it's great for scale. I don't know if you'll talk about DSCR lending very much on your show, but that's something that a lot of our clients, and that does 80% so we have a lot of clients going that route now too.   Keith Weinhold  23:21   Okay, so you could do 80% with debt service coverage ratio loans, but to drop back in our example, to help be clear, the investor has 80k of their own skin in the game into the property, 60k for the purchase, 20k for the renovation, even though they only have 80k in it appraises for 100k that ARV, that after repair value. Why is the after repair value 100k when you only have 80k into it? Why is it more?   Alex Craig  23:49   that's based off comparable sales? So when you're in it at 80, and you're going to refinance it through a lender, they're going to send an appraiser out, and appraiser is going to pull comparable sales within that neighborhood. So just because you're in an 80 the appraiser is going to go pull three comps, very similar to that home. So if we're selling a three bedroom one bath, they're going to pull three comps at a three bedroom one bath, relatively the same size look, if it's got a carport, they're going to try to find three houses with the carport. So in theory, that's what they're doing. They're pulling comparable sales and developing new value based on recent sales.   Keith Weinhold  24:23   So it's that you have this knowledge to buy in neighborhoods and buy in certain sub markets, where, when you know that capital is added and renovations are made and a rehab period that they do tend to appraise for that value based on the comparables that are already there.   Alex Craig  24:40   Yeah. I mean, if we were to take the same house at 60,000 and didn't do any work, he would then say, well, you've got some comparables here versus 100 but you could never sell this home for 100 these are the things you have to do, and that's what we do during the first R the renovate of the acronym is to renovate the home to the condition that the. Appraisers feel that are comparable for the neighborhood, and that's a real important part, is comparable to the neighborhood. We could go in and put in a Jacuzzi tub and grain of countertops. We actually, we do put a lot of grain in, because we get it so cheap. But you could go in and fix it up to the nines, but it's not going to appraise for any more than the others, because the appraiser would say, we over improved it. So we improve it to what we know, what the kind of the standard for the neighborhood? Because you could over improve these things for sure and not get that return on that investment.   Keith Weinhold  25:28   That is a great answer. There is a specific improvement target that you know that needs to be hit. Tell us more about this burr process, because to an out of area investor, it can sound pretty intimidating if they had to manage contractors remotely themselves,   Alex Craig  25:43   there definitely is a need to have a team on the ground that you trust, that you feel comfortable with, and that's what we've done. I've been doing it in multiple markets for myself since 2007 and we built into a business model in 2010 like I said, expanded Little Rock in 2012 and we've been doing this for 15 years now for other investors. So we've got that name and that reputation of taking care of our investors, that's the important part. And we do see a lot of investors get burned, because you can find a realtor to go to help you find deals, but usually the realtor relationship is thesis to end. It's okay, I found you a deal, but then there's so many other things afterwards, and the renovations, where I see so many people get burned, and you know, we manage approximately 1200 homes between two markets, and that's where I see when property owners come to us, they've been burned the most. It's like they've paid somebody $50,000 they didn't finish the job, they didn't do what they say they're going to do. So the renovation that we're the team on the ground, we've got a in House Project Manager, we've got a network of subcontractors. We tend to act as the contractor, subbing things out. We've got in house property management. We've got all the tools, but it's really between both. In the markets in which I operate. I've got about 30 employees within property management, renovations, acquisitions, so the team on the ground is and then the back in the property management part is the long, ongoing accountability. So if something doesn't work out, that's the way we said it. If we say it's going to rent for 1200 and we rent it out for 900 Well, we really got a big egg on our face. You do a few of those, and that's how you don't stay in business anymore. And there's, and I like to say, about every five years the market corrects itself into getting the wrong players out of the business. COVID was super easy, easy to find deals, easy to sell deals. But once the market changed and it became a little more competitive and rates rose, that's the people that have been around for the long time, been in it for the long haul, that stick around. They've got the established business model and their reputation. So every five years, a good correction in the market eliminates those bad players.   Keith Weinhold  27:47   So you have this vetted, proven in play system that investors can get into besides just identifying the property, it comes with that system, those contractors or that investor just has one point of contact with you there for updates on the renovation.   Alex Craig  28:03   Yeah. I mean, I feel like we know these neighborhoods. I like I feel we know these neighborhoods like the back of our hand. We've been investing in them for a decade plus, and we know the areas you want to be in, the areas you don't want to be in. And we have a lot of investors will call us either they already own the property or they're a current client, and they'll say, Hey, I could get this deal for 30,000 and it's worth 100 and I'm like, Well, that sounds too good to be true, especially if it's on the open market. If it was that good of a deal, it's already gone. We just know the market, where to be. We know what to pay. We could, pretty much just through our experience, identify a house we know probably within about five to 10% before we even dive into comparable sales of what it's worth. We could walk through a house within probably about three to five minutes and peg the renovation costs probably within about 10% now we still order an inspection, and that's where we uncover the things that we can't see, that maybe there's a bunch of rotted out joist or a foundation problem that we didn't see. So, but there's things aside we could walk through and we pretty much know, okay, it needs a roof that's 7000 it needs an air conditioner that's six flooring, two. So that's the expertise that we bring and like. So then the management part of it, on the back end, that kind of ties it all together with accountability.   Keith Weinhold  29:22   And I know that your typical project renovation cost tends to be about 25k just for simplicity, we use 20k in that example, and your completion times are shorter than others that have inexperienced crews. So tell us about that typical renovation time. Alex.   Alex Craig  29:39   every day we're accomplishing 500 so 25,000 divided by 500 comes to 50 days, 50 days. So we'll knock that out in about 50 days. And we just have a large network of subcontractors that we've been working with for years. If you weren't in the business, I think that'd be really hard to accomplish, and there's just a lot that. Goes into it. I mean, the renovating the homes, it's the once, it's the worst, it's the hardest thing that we do. For sure, it's definitely the most scheduling, but it's where, if you don't know what you're doing, a great deal turns into, how do I get out of this?   Keith Weinhold  30:15   Right, absolutely. Now, in our example, we used where an investor puts 60k into it for the purchase to start with, because I see the burst strategy is a good strategy. If someone doesn't have a lot of capital, like they would for maybe a new build property, can one even finance that initial purchase amount?   Alex Craig  30:35   Yeah, so private lending. So that's the part that makes if you've only got 50 grand to facilitate this entire process, and you want to try to repeat it as many times as you can. 50,000 would not be enough just to pay cash. So yes, we have private lending. We set that up. Sometimes we lend it ourselves. Sometimes we outsource it to some of our strategic partners, but we'll lend the money to buy and renovate the home. A typical what that loan would look like it's about 3.3 points of loan origination. So if you've got an $80,000 loan, that's $2,400 most lenders do require for you to bring that up front, and now you're in it for an $80,000 loan at 12% which, five years ago, that sounded crazy to borrow at 12% but with for private lending, that's not bad at all, especially you want to get in and out of it quickly. So if we're renovating the home, and you know, 50 days, if you're already pre approved with your lender, and they have all your documents by the time we finish renovating the home, the appraisals lined up, and you could be in and out of these private loans in about 90 days. That love that depends on the lending side, that you're giving the lender what they need. But ideally you want to be in these things about 90 to 120 days. So $80,000 loan at 12% that $800 a month. So if you're in it for 90 days, 800 times 320, 700 plus the loan origination fee. But that's how you do it. That's the you're just borrowing money to finance the acquisition, the rehab and the refinance   Keith Weinhold  32:03   that is an option for you if you don't have the cash here to come in with these burr strategy properties. Alex, tell us more about it. Really, what I would like to know is, when an investor gets their appraisal, their after repair value, how many want to sell it for a profit, and how many want to hold it with a tenant for long term income   Alex Craig  32:26   so far, zero. Want to sell it for a profit. If you're all in it for add and then you're selling for 100 once you sell it, there are other fees involved. You got to hire a realtor. Right now is a great time to hold it's a slow real estate market. I don't think Little Rock from an aspect, is where home ownership is down. I think that's a nationwide thing. So I think if you're going into this, you certainly want to look at it from perspective. This is a buy and hold. I don't think this is the best market to get into to buy something. Flip it with a in the example, we use a $20,000 margin with buyer concessions, realtor commissions. That's a lot of work involved. And let's just say it did work out. You sold it for 100 but you had to pay 2% closing in an agent fee, and you got some holding cost. Let's just say you netted 8000 that might be good for a six month return, but I feel like there's a lot of risk. I feel like our job as what we do for our clients, is to minimize risk. So someone came and said, Hey, I want to flip it. I would say, Well, I don't think it's the best market for it right now. I think you want to get into this buy and hold.   Keith Weinhold  33:29   Yes, Alex has been doing this for a long time, and he's a specific expert right there in that local market. Buy and hold is a strategy that most likely makes sense. And he also strongly recommends pay cash if possible, instead of using that 12% short term private lending option, like he mentioned before, because that can cut out about four to 5k worth of transactional cost. And then if you do buy and hold what Alex and his company offer there in Little Rock is essentially a cash flow boost, 0% management fee in year one and only 4% in year two. So that gives you some extra cash flow runway as well. And Alex, before I ask you if you have any last thoughts, I want to announce to you the audience, that we have a live event virtually next week, on July 17, at 8pm eastern for Little Rock BRRRRproperties that Alex is CO hosting with our investment coach, Naresh, where you can find these bird deals in this cash flowing market. In Little Rock you'll see actual bird deals recently completed with full breakdowns of their purchase prices, sort of these case studies, where you can see some real numbers and what the rehab budgets are and what the actual timelines were, and what the refi outcomes were like, and explore BRRRR ready properties that are currently available to own, if you so choose, on this upcoming live event that you can attend from the comfort of your own home. Learn the full process, from acquisition to renovation to property management to the financing of them, and again, everything is all handled by local experts, so that you don't have to live with the nightmare of remotely managing contractors, which I couldn't imagine doing. So whether you're a first time investor or you're scaling your portfolio, this is your chance to get boots on the ground, insight and a proven road map to burr success and really one of the most accessible markets in the country. Again, Alex here is CO hosting the event along with GRE investment coach, Naresh Vissa. It is a free, live virtual event again next week, Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern. Sign up is open now at gre webinars.com it ought to be great. Alex, teaming with local experts like you has been of real benefit to our audience. Do you have any last thoughts about either Little Rock or burrs or the events that you're going to co host with our audience next week?   Alex Craig  35:57   So here's my last thought, as you were, you know, kind of concluding and I was reviewing what we had talked about. And one of the questions we get sometimes it's a fair question. It's like, well, if this is such a great deal, why don't you keep all the deals? So we hear that from time to time, and the simple answer is, we do. We do keep a lot of deals, and we're buying more real estate now, like I said, I feel like it's the easiest time to get into real estate. So we do, we do keep a lot. We're building a very large portfolio right now, but the house flipping to investors is just another business model that we have. And Property Management too. And we love property management, and we love building investor relationships. We've had a lot of investors we've had been with us since day one that we've developed really tight relationships with. So yes, we do keep a lot of the properties, and we sell properties too, and we and helps us build our management company, which you don't hear too many people say this, but we actually love property management. That's a hard thing to love, but we actually like it.   Keith Weinhold  36:54   That is more weird than Tom wheelwright loving taxes, perhaps, but Right. But I want to deal with somebody that really loves what they're doing, especially when they're protecting our asset and probably more importantly, when it comes to property management, protecting our time. So that's right, Alex, well, our viewers and listeners are really looking forward to it next week, again, that live event Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern is something that you can sign up for now at grewebinars.com. Alex, we're looking forward to it next week.   Alex Craig  37:27   Bye, Keith, thank you.   Keith Weinhold  37:34   Oh yeah. Terrific overview on why the burr strategy can be so profitable. And our event next week. Now, when you rent your primary residence, which you would typically do in a high cost area, and then you own rental property elsewhere, typically a low cost area, do you know what that's called? Yeah, there is a name for that. Last week we spoke to two listener guests in California that are doing just that. That is called rentvesting. And yes, Little Rock is surely a popular low cost market for rentvesting. I have been on the ground myself in Little Rock with Alex's associate to do an on the ground tour of properties. There you want to tap into a system where you've got the guiding hand of both experience and belief. That's what you're doing here. As like he said, Alex personally owns 75 doors there. That is belief, and he's been doing this for out of area investors for 15 years. That's the experience part real proof of concept at next week's event, you'll be introduced to this same system where you can lean on their team for acquisition, renovation and management. Little Rock has an MSA population of about 770,000 but I think more importantly today, savvy investors are conscientious of keeping their expenses down, and for good reason, since they've been up all over the place. Now, the purchase price is 140 to 160k for these BRRRR optimized single family rentals. Remember that we used 100k just for ease of an example there, usually when you buy income property, you're really in at close to 25% of the purchase price when you add up the down payment and closing costs, but this way, you're in for just about half of that at 10 to 15% another low expense is that property tax, statewide, Arkansas Property Tax is just 610 of 1% so that's half the national average. And then your management expense is definitely going to be low for the first two years, because it is 0% in year one and 4% in year two. And these are properties that you can actually be pretty proud of. You'll learn more about this. Scope of work with a renovation on the webinar, often granite countertops in the kitchen is a live, remote event. So this means that you can have any of your questions answered in real time. Should you have them? As you can imagine, demand is high for these properties, and this is a chance to get connected directly with the team that makes it happen. We might never get Alex on an event like this again, and is co hosted with our GRE investment coach, Naresh. It's next week. It's free, Thursday, July 17, at 8pm Eastern, 5pm Pacific. Sign up now, or your future self might not be able to forgive yourself. You can do that now at grewebinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  40:56   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  41:19   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters, and I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now just text. GRE to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre to 66866   Keith Weinhold  42:35   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, getricheducation.com.

Keith discusses the evolution of the real estate market over the past five years, highlighting a 43% price surge from March 2020 to June 2022 due to low mortgage rates, remote work, and government stimulus. By 2024, single-family home prices stabilized, but apartment values dropped by 30%.  Mortgage rates have remained around 6-7.5% for 20 months, with national home prices rising 2% in the past year.  We introduce two listener guests: Josh Fang, a 28-year-old investor who bought five properties using his income from a mortgage loan officer job, and Nate O'Neil, an experienced investor who leveraged his corporate job to fund his real estate portfolio.  Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/560 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai  Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, over the past five years, the real estate market has changed forever. So what are you supposed to do now? Then I talked to two GRE listener guests back to back. Here's some relatable stories this week on get rich education.    Mid south home buyers. I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis, and have globally attractive cash flows, an A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis. Get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com.   Speaker 1  1:48   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. You   Keith Weinhold  1:58   Keith, welcome to GRE from Augusta Maine to Augusta Georgia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are back inside get rich education if you got trapped in a cave back in 2020, and then you came above ground into the sunlight of 2025 and wondered what happened to the real estate investment market over the last five years. Here's the answer, and what it means to you, even if you weren't trapped in a cave, and I sure hope you didn't have to fight off a bat colony either. During the pandemic housing boom of 2020, to 2022 housing demand soared, in fact, from March of 2020, to June of 2022, prices surged a staggering 43% and rents ballooned too. And that was all amidst a few things, ultra low mortgage rates, a remote work boom and government stimulus. And for many, this unlocked Americans work from anywhere arbitrage. High earners were able to keep their income in, say, New York City or LA, pack up their laptop and head for state income tax free havens like Tampa or Nashville, and builders could not keep up. See housing supply, stock is not as elastic as demand. It's like steering a cruise ship. It doesn't turn out a dime. Inventory was drained, and you know, we had a full on housing supply crash that dipped to its Nadir in February of 2022 but just after that, all types of interest rates spiked later in 2022 to help stifle rising inflation, and what that did is that that quickly quelled homeowner affordability. Return to Office mandates began to gain momentum. National housing demand pulled back a near 180 was quickly underway. Sales volume tanked, and that put a lot of people in the industry out of business, realtors, mortgage loan officers, even furniture companies out of business by 2024 prices in the single family to fourplex space stabilized just with a slow growth rate, but apartment values lost as much as 30% from 2022 to 24 due to devastating interest rate resets under shorter term loans, and meanwhile, the income required to buy a modest starter home rose from 49k in 2020 to 101k last year. That's pretty NAR and the term forever renter became both a meme and a. Reality, and since construction, efforts to build have been uneven, apartment supply actually exceeds demand in a lot of markets, and over in the one to four unit space by adding inventory, there's now 30% more available year over year, but it remains under supplied nationally, especially like I've discussed in the Northeast and Midwest, where building has been meager to completely non existent. That's why it can still feel impossible to find a house in much of Ohio or New Jersey, but you can rent an apartment in Austin, Texas faster than you can get a Wendy's drive through order. Mortgage rates have now stayed in this same range of six to seven and a half for 20 months, and national home prices are up just about 2% in the past year. Now, when Trump began his second term in January of 2025 markets got giddy with business friendly optimism, but this Trump bump that reversed fast when he slapped half the planet with tariffs housing demand cooled again, because no one buys a house when they feel like their job might vanish, alright? So amidst all of that. How do you adjust your strategy with what's changed over the past five years? Well, real estate still pays five ways, and since you're not betting it all on price growth like you would be with most other asset classes, this way, you've always got a side to play with. Affordability down now, rental demand is heating up. With more inventory on the market for you to purchase, there are more motivated sellers, especially those shiny build to rent homes. You do still have to deal with mortgage rates that are higher than they were four or five years ago. Refinance on the rate dips if there's low inflation rates fall if there's high inflation, well, then your debt arose faster. So this is what I mean about you having the ability to play both sides today, and this is big, the number of renter households are at a record high, and they're rising. Landlords are giving fewer concessions. Increasingly, they hold the cards in the single family rental space and annual rent growth is expected to heat up from its current zero to 3% Well, what is next? Short term housing value should stay stable, but not sore, and don't count on a big mortgage rate drop at all for the rest of the year long term, expect more inflation in strong demographic demand. Those things are almost certainties, and that's the good part for real estate investors. So really the overall market report card today, let's grade it out in a report card, sellers are doing just okay. Buyers are strained. First time home buyers are in the worst, the roughest shape. I mean, they grade out at an F single family rental landlords are in good shape because people that want to buy a single family home can't, so they rent apartment landlords, they are strained, and renters are holding steady. They're doing pretty well until steeper rent increases kick in. So really, the bottom line here is that it's been a more tumultuous five years than usual. Housing demand lapse supply and now it's coming closer back into balance today, home prices are stable, the amount of buyers are waning, and the hordes of renters are growing. And where are we today? Well, earlier this month, our president called our Fed chair a numbskull.    Donald Trump  8:56   If we cut our interest by one point for years, we save 300 billion. If we cut it by two points, we save because it's pretty equivalent we're going to save, we're going to spend 600 billion a year. 600 billion because of one numb skull that sits here. I don't see enough reason to cut the rates now.   Keith Weinhold  9:21   oh dear leaving you with a little knee slapper on the five year summary there. Look poor and middle class people feel like everything is expensive. That's because they pay for everything with money they've exchanged their time for. That means they feel like they're paying for everything with their life, because they are and that's exactly why money feels like a scarce resource. Instead, real estate investors pay for things according to what our assets are producing for us and what other people's money is producing for us. And that's why we can pay for what we want, and money feels like an abundant resource, not a scarce one. That's what today's two listener guests discovered somewhere along their path, fueled by this show. Now sometimes I answer your listener questions here on the show when you write into us at get rich education.com/contact, other times, I bring listener guests right here onto the show. That's what we're doing today. Today's both happen to be based in California. The first guest is a young investor, and the second guest more experienced. These were just recorded. Understand they aren't professional speakers. And also, if you bear with a few early audio difficulties with our first guest, you're going to be rewarded with some relatable takeaways. Our first listener guest, Josh Fang, started listening to the get rich education podcast as a college student in 2016 or 17. He first heard episode 84 that's when Robert Kiyosaki made his first appearance here. That episode was called the rich don't work for money. Then he went back to Episode One and listened to them all, 560 episodes. Now let's meet him.   This week's GRE listener guest is a 28 year old real estate investor based out of Irvine, California. That's SoCal, and he has already reached what he calls semi work, optional status, fantastic. He's been a GRE listener since 2017 that was at age 20 when he was a junior in college. The GRE podcast inspired him to become a mortgage loan officer, and he's become a top performer at doing that, originating loans after graduating college. He used the money from that mortgage loan officer job starting at age 22 to buy five income properties, two through mid south home buyers and three elsewhere. By the way. Again, he's 28 now. GRE quite literally shaped his adult life, and having enough passive income to fully retire is pretty much his only goal. Now he's got passion for talking financial freedom through smart borrowing, strategic thinking and action over perfection. Oh, I love that. Hey, welcome to GRE. Josh Fang, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it here on the show, I talk about borrowing and lending a good bit, because if you're gonna make something of yourself, you need to leverage the efforts of others. So tell us about how you got your first job in the mortgage industry and how it set the foundation for your investing journey. Josh,   Josh Fang  12:31   when I graduated, it was really rough. I had a business degree which didn't really open up too many doors. At that time, I couldn't find a job for six months, I was just applying everywhere that I could. Now keep in mind this entire time, I'm looking for a job. I'm listening to your podcast, and you know, how can I the income and the money to purchase some rental properties for some passive income? And one company responded to my resume for a mortgage company. So I was able to get an interview, and I actually got the job by quoting, you know, mortgage guidelines that I learned from your podcast. Your Podcast, such as, for an FHA loan, you need three and a half percent down. For a conventional you need 20% down, just the most basic of the most basic mortgage guidelines. And actually was able to land a job, and in the very beginning, they start you off pretty much. I mean, as a telemarketer, it's pretty rough, long hours, you work weekends, I was making $17.48 at the time per hour, and with that basic income, the 17.48 an hour, I actually was able to buy my first rental property without even the two years work history. And the way I did that was by using my college degree as work history, because there is actually a guideline to where, if you have degree that is in the same field as where you work, it does actually be counting work history. And it was really funny at the time, I was living with my parents, another document that I needed to go through underwriting. I needed a letter from my dad, a signed letter from my dad saying I didn't pay rent because I was living at home. And off that 17.48, an hour, I was able to buy my first rental property. And from mid south home buyers, everyone there was so great. They were so helpful in helping me through the loan process, through selecting a property, and I was able to close. And the time that I bought my first rental I was only 22 years old.   Keith Weinhold  14:20   This is remarkable on a few levels, with just those few lines, about three and a half percent down FHA or 20% down conventional that sounded compelling enough for someone to want to give you an opportunity and then off that modest starting wage, how that really helped you accumulate to buy income property and yeah, when you're buying in those investor advantage places, those prices are low, but that's still pretty remarkable that you were able to do that. So talk to us some more about that, buying your first rental property at age 22 surely younger than most people about that process and the mindset and really that leap of faith that it takes Josh because most people are not doing this.   Josh Fang  15:00   Yeah, absolutely. And I think I had a really big leg up in terms of mindset, because I was starting to listen to your podcast when I was so young, when you're young and you're growing up and you're a young adult in college, you know, you hear from your teachers, your parents, your friends, older people, and they say, oh, invest in the stock market. Buy a primary residence to live in. And the big thing that I learned is I don't live in the same world as the world that my parents grew up in, and I can't invest the same as well. Great point there's, I live in Southern California. The medium house price of where I live in, in the city of Irvine, is $2 million yeah, that's ridiculous. I would never, ever be able to purchase a primary residence out here, and buying stocks are at all times highs. I mean, that's arguable, but I think stocks are quite overfit. So investing there didn't make too much sense. And what you always talked about in terms of building a second flow of income, having that be passive to where I don't need to work regularly, is what really motivated me to move towards that. And in terms of making the first step, I think the most important thing by far, is just setting a goal, saying at least for myself, it was, hey, I want to own a property. I want to provide safe, affordable housing to a tenant, and I want to be able to make money off of that, to where I don't need to do something physically for it every single day. And then after that, it just about taking the steps. The first things first is I reached out to some of the house providers. In that case, it was mid south home buyers, gave them a call, spoke to them, say, Hey, can I please be put on your list? Perfect. Then it was just continuing the work, doing more research, continue listening to your podcast, learn tidbits here and there, lots of Googling, lots of Googling, looking up terms that I didn't understand when I read through the analysis of the property. Hey, what does this mean? What does that mean, Googling it, learning one step at a time. And then when it came time and I was actually receiving properties that I could buy, it was about getting the mortgage, and it was about, hey, let's just move one step at a time. Okay, today I need to get these documents, and the next step, I need to get these documents. And before you knew it, I was signing with a notary closing on my first property,    Keith Weinhold  17:10   the autodidactic approach, meaning the self taught approach, with some assistance from my show. But yeah, oftentimes listening to the show can be the stimulus to make you want to learn more, probably, because I talk about the why for real estate, and if you don't know your why, you won't care about how So Josh, are you doing something that some people do in high cost areas, like you live in in SoCal? Are you renting your own place? And then you provide rental housing to others outside your own area. In investor advantage places is that your setup?   Josh Fang  17:44   100% where I live in Irvine, it is extremely, extremely low crime. Everything's a planned unit development. It is beautiful out here. There's trees, there's lots of different foods from different cultures. I absolutely love living here. The only issue is is it's ridiculously expensive. I live in a very nice luxury apartment complex, and I pay of extremely high rent that normal people probably wouldn't be able to pay. But rather than coming out of my pocket, I use the cash flow for my rentals to pay for my rent over here. So it's kind of like I'm building equity, even though I'm just renting, and I get to live the life that I want to live, where I want to live it, while still being able to invest the proper way. In my opinion   Keith Weinhold  18:26   that's beautifully said and well thought out. And part of doing that, Josh is this borrowing money, which I think to lay people, is scary, and for someone in their 20s to borrow money, that could really bring a good bit of trepidation, because that goes against the grain of what so many people do. But of course, we talk around here about how borrowing money like you have for your rental properties in other states outside California really is not something to fear. So can you tell us more about how you approach that mindset?    Josh Fang  18:57   Absolutely, and it's always hilarious when someone asks you if you if you have any debt, and you tell them $500,000 when you're 23,24 years old, the biggest thing about borrowing money is now, again, there's different types of debt. So I'm not saying, hey, go buy some expensive car that you're going to be backwards on in a few months. Don't get a bunch of credit card debts at 24% interest rates. I'm talking about debt from a with a collateral attached to it, such as a mortgage. The way I like to think about borrowing money is borrowing like a bank, because your money has value. Whenever I have money in the actual bank, it doesn't feel like it, but I'm actually lending money to the bank. They're taking the money that I have deposited and lending it out to other people at higher rate than what they're paying you back. That's how they're actually making the money. I'm thinking like a bank. And of course, that's exactly how it is with borrowing money for rental properties. The interest rate that I have to pay on my mortgage is so much lower than how much income I'm receiving by actually renting it out and providing housing for someone. And then, of course. Tax deductions.   Keith Weinhold  20:00   Sure you're creating arbitrage there when it comes to paying off or aggressively paying down a property. I mean, some protection financially is surely good, but one has to realize that after some point, when you protect you cannot produce another way to say it is if you use your dollar to pay down, then you cannot use your dollar to multiply.   Josh Fang  20:25   I agree with that 100% I couldn't have said it any better.   Keith Weinhold  20:28   You really took action something that a lot of people don't do. I don't think you did right away. You listened to some episodes for quite a while, but you did overcome analysis paralysis at some point. So talk to us about more with that mindset of how you took the first step, even when you're still perhaps a little unsure.   Josh Fang  20:46   I think you say it best, and I know I'm literally taking the words out of your mouth, because, again, I'm a long time listener, but do the right thing before you do things right. Yes, rings so, so, so true. You're never going to be perfect. There's never going to be the perfect property. There's never going to be the perfect deal. Eventually you just have to do it. And again, all it really is is saying, Hey, here's what I want to do, and what are the steps that have to take to get there? If the first actual step, rather than just listening to the podcast or getting more information, if the first step is, hey, I want to get a pre approval. Go ahead and get it done. Reach out to a loan officer, get your pre approval, get the documents needed, get the right information that you need, and then start writing offers on properties, or contacting Keith and his team, their GRE mentoring team, and ask for property values. And once you find one, and again, you're never going to find the perfect property. Once you finally say, hey, this fits enough. Jump on it. You should be excited. I mean, again, once you're doing the right thing, you can learn to do things right. And slowly, kind of say, Hey, I made a small error there. Hey, I made a small error there. But at the end of the day, you move forward and you're ahead of where you started. I think that's the most important thing.   Keith Weinhold  21:59   Yeah. I think uncertainty stops. Some people, maybe even uncertainty with the larger economy. Or maybe people just look for excuses for inactivity. Sometimes there will always be some uncertainty out there. And what you do when you make an offer on a real asset is you just made some certainty in your life. Yeah, just talk to us more about the process of kind of you started with your first property and then growing that portfolio. And what did you learn between the first one in that second, third, fourth and fifth one, where you are now   Speaker 2  22:32   after buying my first one, when I received that first rent check, after that first rental property, my net cash flow after management expenses, putting a little, you know, VIMTIM, keeping an extra 10% away to just keep in the bank in case something came up. I wish cash flowing at the time. $231 doesn't sound like a crazy amount now, but as a 22 year old kid and saying, Hey, I got this $231 without lifting a finger, felt amazing. I had this feeling, I'm out in Southern California. We had this burger chain called in and out. My double double burger and fries combo was about $6 at the time. And I said, no matter how bad things get, no matter how bad things get, that $231 I can buy an in and out meal every single day, as long as I own that property. I just had such an overwhelming feeling of, when can I get the next one? I immediately, immediately reached out to MidSouth like, hey, put me on the list as soon as I have money. You know what? Keith, it got fun. It got fun every time I got an email saying, Hey, here's another property. Like, wow, if I can make this deal work, that's an extra couple $100 I can have at the end of the month every single day. And now I live in my own apartment complex, in a unit in an apartment complex, but at the time, I rented out a room in a house, in a condo, just a single room, and by the time I bought my second rental property, all of my cash flow from my two rentals actually covered the full amount of my monthly rent living out outside of my parents place. And that just felt so so so amazing, because it was like I almost had no overhead. So all the money that I was making for my job was completely disposable that I could use to purchase other rental properties. And that was just such an amazing, freeing feeling to know that no matter what happened, I obviously as long as there's no vacancies or any kind of crazy issues there, that I would still have that flow of income coming in pretty much after buying my first one, all I wanted to do was buy more. Now, a big issue that happened was 2020 and 2021 there was very little inventory, so really tough and slim pickings, and I would have bought a lot more if I could find more deals. And now, thinking back, I should have, if anything, I wish I bought more.   Keith Weinhold  24:50   Gosh, I just love that Josh, that seminal $231cash flow from that first property, and how you rationalize that that could buy you in and out. Meal every single day, all month. If that's what you wanted to do with that first one, that's terrific. And yes, markets change. There's more inventory available now than there was in 2020, and 2021, mortgage rates are surely higher. You don't have as much competition. You might even get a concession or two when you buy since it's a more balanced market today than it was about four years ago, for sure. So every market cycle is different. When you realize you're paid five ways at the same time, there's always one side to play or the other. There's always so many variables that you get to deal with there. Have you had any certain issues with property management, or do you have any mindset about using a property manager remotely. I assume you're using remote management for these turnkey type properties. Is that right?   100% I've actually never physically seen any of my properties. Yeah, what you say is the best, essentially, your team that manages your property is the most important by far. Right? Right now, here's the thing, issues are going to come up. Regardless of what happens. There's always going to be something that breaks. Eventually, there's always going to be vacancy. Eventually there can be natural disasters, something's always going to come up. And the thing is, you can't get angry about the things that you can't control. If there is a vacancy that you know you vetted the tenant properly, and there was nothing to do if there is a natural disaster or if something does break down in your property that you couldn't have expected coming or that wasn't your fault. The biggest thing is, you can't get angry with it. You just have to know that you can deal with it properly, and having a professional team on the other side saying, Hey, we're going to handle it. This is an issue. Here's how much it's going to cost. We got a couple of you know quotes. Please approve one when you get a chance, and knowing that the other side will be able to execute on that and to do it for you, and that you don't have to fly out wherever you own your property and do it yourself physically, or have to call around and find a contractor to do it, it's a huge peace of mind, and having a property manager and a team that you can trust just makes it work. If I couldn't get a property manager that I trusted, I wouldn't own the property in the first place. It's just too much work.   I am the same way. I also have not seen the majority of the properties I own. I've never seen them physically, in person, yeah, having a professional property manager, they provide a buffer, and they help keep this investment unemotional for you. And Mistakes happen when people get overly emotional about their properties. Some people are reluctant to hire a property manager, Josh because they don't want to pay the eight to 10% property management fee, which can actually be a little bit more than that effectively with leasing fees. But people feel that way, as oftentimes they're confining and limiting their search to their own local market, which probably isn't investor advantage. So they don't have enough of a cushion in their pro forma, in their profit and loss statement to pay for a property manager. But when you buy in those investor advantage places where you get that high ratio of rent income to purchase price. There you have the allowance to pay for the manager too,    Speaker 2  28:06   100% and luckily, because I have my foundation of real estate from listen to your podcast, I never even look at a deal without factoring in the fact that there will be management. I have never, ever even possibly considered self managing. It just makes no sense. I'd rather, let's just say it's 10% and a month's worth of lease, which is a little bit on the higher end in terms of management fees, right? Even if I were to do I would factor that in 100% of the time if the deal doesn't work, if it doesn't cash flow, if it doesn't, you know, appreciate a certain amount, if it isn't in my ballpark, with the management fees taken out, that's not even the deal that I'm looking at. It's just too expensive.   Keith Weinhold  28:47   Yeah, that's a great way to think about it, keep it unemotional and make it all relatively passive. I self managed for the first six or seven years of my real estate investing career, but that's because I was only investing in my own local market, and I was thinking small, and I didn't learn about finding the best investor advantaged places nationwide. Well, just as we wind down here, is there any last thing that you'd like to let the audience know or to tell us, I know before we recorded, you had talked about how really, your Daydream is more realistic than you think, and the motivation behind getting started. What do you want to leave with? Josh?   Speaker 2  29:22   You say it after every podcast. Don't quit your Daydream. I've been hearing that for eight years now at this point, and it really is, I don't have a day job. I pretty much only work when I feel like it. The majority of what I've lived off of is the income properties that I've bought and the lifestyle that I've crafted. It's so freeing. No one's telling you what to do. You don't have to go somewhere every day. You can spend time doing what you want. When I first quit my day job, and, you know, went into this semi retirement, I'm not gonna lie, I play video games eight hours a day for months, or maybe a month or two. I don't know if that's the most productive. It. But the fact that I could do that, I could obsess on crazy hobbies for a while was crazy. But one of the most important things to me of being able to reach this point in my life is I'm starting to get a little bit older. I am able to spend time with my family. I am able to spend time with my grandparents, and, you know, just like on a Tuesday or like on a Wednesday, just when nothing's really going on. Just being able to stop by and say hi to my family and spend time with them is something that I'm so blessed to be able to have, and not many people can do. And then the last thing I'd like to say on that is just, there's very small things in the world that a lot of people don't get a notice. Because I feel like everyone's in a rush all the time, and a lot of people are. You know, if you're working 40 hours a week, nine to five, you know, nine to six, there's not much time. But the other day, I was taking a small hike, and I saw a group of lizards. I thought they were cool, so I looked at the lizards. I spent maybe 15 minutes watching the lizards. I wasn't in a rush, you know, I could just enjoy the small things in life, and that's one of the best things in the world to just have that sense of not being in a rush. And I feel like investing in real estate and having that passive income and having that level of freedom. To me, that's what my Daydream is. There's nothing better to me.   Keith Weinhold  31:14   the simple pleasures about not having your time so confined that you could enjoy looking at lizards for 15 minutes. I love the small stuff like that. And does this mean Josh? I mean with five rental properties that you only need to work part time rather than full time, because usually five properties don't allow someone to completely leave the workforce.   Josh Fang  31:32   No, not at all. I definitely do things on the side. I still do loans for friends and family. I do some other stuff on the side, but it's more of that my basic needs are met for the most part.   Keith Weinhold  31:43   That's terrific. You've got more latitude to live and having a life of options Trumps having a life of obligations 100% Well, hey, it's been great hearing your story. Josh, loved having you here on the show you're listening to get rich education. We got to know listener. Guest, Josh Fang more, and we come back with another listener guest, profile, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold.    The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group  NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your pre qual and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lendinggroup.com. That's Ridge lendinggroup.com.    You know what's crazy your bank is getting rich off of you. The average savings account pays less than 1% it's like laughable. Meanwhile, if your money isn't making at least 4% you're losing to inflation. That's why I started putting my own money into the FFI liquidity fund. It's super simple. Your cash can pull in up to 8% returns, and it compounds. It's not some high risk gamble like digital or AI stock trading. It's pretty low risk because they've got a 10 plus year track record of paying investors on time in full every time. I mean, I wouldn't be talking about it if I wasn't invested myself. You can invest as little as 25k and you keep earning until you decide you want your money back. No weird lockups or anything like that. So if you're like me and tired of your liquid funds just sitting there doing nothing, check it out. Text family to 66866, to learn about freedom. Family investments, liquidity fund again. Text family to 66866.   Jim Rickards  33:49   this is Arthur Jim Rickards. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  34:05   our next listener guest has an uncanny amount of similarities with me, like me, he was a geography major in college. He had humble beginnings in upstate New York, not far from where I grew up, in upstate Pennsylvania. He's a huge believer in real estate pays five ways, and he loves world travel. His first job out of college was, in fact, traveling the world, playing basketball against the Harlem Globetrotters. We sure don't have that pro basketball part in common. He owns dozens of units across seven states today. He's listened to GRE for six or seven years, and he was a corporate guy living in California who thought the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad was fiction, until he experienced the rapid appreciation of he and his wife's first primary residence. And after that appreciation, he knew he had to acquire more real estate. Prices were too high in California relative to rent, so he. Went out of state, and he had just one property for five years to learn that was pretty similar to me as well. And then he saw tremendous opportunity after the GFC hit in 2008 and that really put him on a path through experience the five ways real estate pays over time, and he became convinced that there's not a better risk adjusted business model that's easily accessible to the average person. Hey, welcome to GRE Nate O'Neil   Nate O'Neil  35:25   Keith, it's great to be here. I've been, as you mentioned, a long time. Listener. Really appreciate the content that you put out, and excited to be on the show   Keith Weinhold  35:32   and you're no longer playing like zero defense basketball against the Harlem Globetrotters. You work in the solar industry now. I know that you sell to single family rental REITs. That's really interesting. And one thing that real estate investing lets people do is think differently about their w2 jobs. So tell us about how that manifests with you. Nate,   Nate O'Neil  35:56   growing up, you know, the first 25 years of my life, 24 years or so, my identity was wrapped up as an athlete, and, you know, something I could really get excited about eventually, that had to come to an end, and started working in the corporate world. So did that for a little while, and got going. It really, you know, didn't resonate with me that much. But, you know, I had a wife, and I had some kids on the way, so had to keep grinding it out. And, you know, as I did that, I discovered real estate, and what really helped me with that was I saw the corporate world began to be a vehicle to grow my real estate portfolio, right? Instead of it being the desk jockey in the cubicle, my corporate job was okay, this is the way for me to raise capital and get the best loans to build a real estate portfolio so, and it's ironic, because as that kind of evolved, I gained, you know, more appreciation for the corporate job, and it didn't, it wasn't so burdensome. And I know there's probably a lot of people out there right that feel that way about their job, but you can probably do a mindset shift and say, hey, you know, this can serve me in other ways and it not be such a grind.   Keith Weinhold  37:03   That's a great way to think about it. While you have that job, it sure is an asset in helping you qualify for loans. Right before I quit my job, I made sure I qualified for as many loans as I could, because I sure would have had a hard time getting them immediately after leaving my job, before I built income or build up passively from something else. It's funny, when you're in the corporate world, you're in this context of normalcy. So many people that you know are working. You're around your coworkers all day. They're working, and if it's something you're not passionate about, yeah, you still don't question it, because it takes on that context for normalcy. But once you leave your job, it feels bizarre that anyone would ever show up and spend five of their seven days and most of the waking hours of those days doing something that they're not passionate about. Now maybe you are passionate about what you do. That's where the mindset that I think through there, but that's a good way to help a person feel a little bit better showing up at their job, even if it is a soul sucking job. Nate. So talk to us about this more with this sort of power of purpose that you had, and when you are working your day job, you probably do some living below your means in the short term, but a lot of people just do that decade after decade and grind it out. So how do you think about that with the mindset in this sort of capital formation stage, in order to acquire more property while you're working?   Nate O'Neil  38:29   Like I said, it was an opportunity that the job became an opportunity to fuel the real estate business, which, as you mentioned, I saw that opportunity in 2009 right when prices were low, when interest rates were low, when there was a bunch of nice new foreclosures on the market, I saw the it created a sense of urgency in me, right? So I was like, All right, let's go to work, because the work's going to drive that capital, and the capital is going to allow us to acquire more and more of this real estate, which is, again, something I was passionate about, because we had this just that one rental for that five year period, I saw the power of what it can do over the long term. And when you have that purpose and that clarity, then all the minor stuff that you can get wrapped around and can kind of slow you down, really doesn't matter you have that big vision and that big goal that you're going after that really kind of drives you    Keith Weinhold  39:20   now, before we got started today, I learned that you have a few ways of thinking about how real estate investors can have their cake and eat it too, more tactically. Here tell us about that. And of course, what is the point of having cake if you can't eat it?    Nate O'Neil  39:33   Yeah, for sure, worked in some different industries and some different companies, and seen a lot of different business models. I've never found anything where you can have kind of both sides of the cookie here, or hack cake eat it too. You can depreciate an appreciating asset. The government allows you to depreciate homes, right? Which gives you a nice tax benefit. The money that I make that my corporate job is taxed at a much higher rate than my real estate income, but yet the asset actually appreciates. Dollars. So you depreciate an appreciating asset. I think people underestimate the power of the 30 year mortgage, right? You can lock in an interest rate today for 30 years, and if interest rates go up, you did a great job. You locked in a great, great rate. If interest rates go down, you're a champion. If you just refinance, when you do a 30 year fixed rate mortgage, the lender is committing to you for three decades, but you don't have to commit to them. So again, have your cake and eat it, too. And then you know the whole return on amortization that you talk about, Keith, yeah, when you get to borrow money that you don't have to pay back, in essence, right? The resident that's in your home is paying that money back. So people think about they hate getting bills in the mail. I actually love getting my mortgage statements in the mail. Every month I go through this little ritual, I look at it, and my process is, wow, how much was that principle paid down? Right? I didn't pay it back, right? The rent payment paid it back. So what other scenario can you borrow money that, quote, unquote, someone else is paying back on your behalf,   Keith Weinhold  41:02   that ROA, that return on amortization, also known as principal pay down. Where, yes, you get that statement every month, and you get to see how much a stranger paid down for your property. It's basically a stranger every month is faithfully funding an illiquid savings account for you,   Speaker 3  41:22   it's just incredible. And then the final way I kind of think about having your cake and eating it too, is, is this HELOC strategy. So over time, as you build equity in your portfolio, you can take out a home equity line of credit, right? And the beauty of a line of credit is you open it up and you don't have to make any payments if you don't use the money. But when there's an opportunity, you can pound for that opportunity. And this is what we did in 2020 and 2021 we acquired some new construction fourplexes with HELOCs. And when in using the HELOC strategy, you're able to use every single dollar to keep the balance low. And what it does is it creates this virtuous cycle of increasing cash flow, because it's a line of credit, and you pay off against that, that line of credit, if you need the money back for an emergency, or if a better opportunity comes up, then you basically just pull more off that line of credit. But if you don't have that opportunity of that emergency, then your money is fully working to keep that payment low, which increases your cash flow, and again, it creates that virtuous cycle of of increasing cash flow, which you can use to pay down the HELOC. Even more   Keith Weinhold  42:29   I see no downsides to getting a HELOC to getting a line of credit against your existing primary residence or your rental properties, whatever they are. It's like this flexible credit card where you're drawing on it with your property as collateral, and it's at lower interest rates than a credit card is going to be. And you also have interest only flexibility, meaning even if you draw against it, and you do have a balance and you need to make a payment, therefore you can pay as little as only the interest portion if you want to. In fact, when I bought my first fourplex in order to fund my second fourplex, I took a HELOC second mortgage off of that first one. Love the HELOC really can't think of any downsides with at least having it there. And then it's up to you as to whether you want to draw against it or not. Absolutely talk to us more about you're another out of state investor based in high cost California. There. It sounds unusual to lay people, but here we are as successful investors owning these properties, typically that we have never seen out of state. Are you in that category as well? And talk to us more about the out of state investing experience   Speaker 3  43:40   I've only ever seen one of the units that I own, the rental units that I own, and I actually think it's a huge advantage, because if you're seeing them driving by them all the time, there's probably little nits that you could point out, and, you know, you get some kind of emotional attachment to them. The way I look at it, it's two things. Number one, it's the spreadsheet behind it, right? What are the numbers behind it? What is my mortgage payment? Is there Hoa, taxes, insurance, all that stuff, and what is my rent? And obviously, I'm all about cash flow, so that rent payment has to cover all the expenses with a little extra. The second piece of it behind the spreadsheet is the person managing it right? And I've been very fortunate over my years of investing to find some really quality property managers who I know I can trust. So, you know, absolutely, I mean, developed an ability to hire the right people to manage the property, and they handle just about everything, and I just need to be there, available for them if they have questions for me or decisions I need to make. Fully trust them. I have only ever seen one of the units that I own, and you know, never really planned to go out and visit them.   Keith Weinhold  44:44   You do like to travel, but just not necessarily to your 200k turnkey single family home in the Midwest, in the south, not where you want to stay. There are some advantages and some disadvantages of owning rental properties, say, four blocks from your home. One of the distinct disadvantages is, yeah, you might get that emotional attachment to it. You might get bogged down in inconsequential things. You might drive by and see that the hedge needs a trim. How much of a problem is that really?   Nate O'Neil  45:14   Exactly it, as long as the spreadsheet behind it is spitting out the right numbers, and you have someone that you can trust that can handle anything that that's major, or any tenant issues that's all that's really relevant.   Keith Weinhold  45:26   Has our investment coaching helped inform you at all? Helped you find properties or give you inside information or access to deals or other support?    Nate O'Neil  45:35   Yeah, I have had a conversation with Naresh. One of your investment counselors doesn't, haven't necessarily acted upon that. But, you know, I can say over the, you know, six to seven years that I've been listening to your podcast just understanding kind of the macroeconomic guests that you bring on in the markets that we believe, you know, are good for investing. Like that, information has been extremely valuable to me over the years.    Keith Weinhold  45:57   Our coaches are really deal scouts here in today's market. For example, things are just so much different than they were during the 2008 GFC years. There are always deals in every cycle. You typically just need to shift and find out where those opportunities are. Are there any specific niches or opportunities that you're exploiting today in this particular cycle? Nate   Nate O'Neil  46:19   yeah. So it's really interesting, and I've been spoiled, right in terms of the times when I did a lot of my acquisition back in 2008 we knew it was good, but looking back, you realize just how good it was at that time, and frankly, now is very challenging, right? I mean, affordability is the worst that's been in 40 years. Yeah, right. So you have to be really creative. You know, one of the things that I did recently was I learned how to do a loan acquisition. So assuming a loan can be very helpful, right where you're not dealing with today's interest rates, you can get yesterday's interest rates on a property. So that's been one thing, and one thing I continue to look at. I also believe that I've been focused on single family in some four plexes. I'm looking at smaller multifamily because what I've learned is there's opportunity when there's debt disruption, right? The great financial crisis happened because there were atrocious lending standards leading up to that time, right? So that opened up a window of opportunity. That opportunity is closed. Acquired some fourplexes in 20 and 21 when interest rates were unbelievably low, right? Basically, the Fed funds rate was basically zero. That kind of unique debt situation allowed me to acquire there and now, right? Since 2022 interest rates spiked so quickly, the way I think about it is the debt disruption period, there's probably some acquisitions that happened with, you know, three to five year short term loans that are going to be coming due, and those acquisition are facing payments that are going to double. So there could be some motivated sellers, not in the single family right, where you have 30 year fixed rate or 15 year fixed rate, but in those small, multi family loans, where they have those short term variable rate debts. So that's kind of how I'm thinking right now.   Keith Weinhold  48:05   That's perceptive. It's something I brought up on the show a month or more ago where apartment buildings have got to bottom out at some point those being sensitive to those shorter term interest rates. Well, Nate, this has really been helpful. You've given our audience quite a few things to think about. Is there any last thing that you'd like the audience to know?   Speaker 3  48:25    We talked a little bit about purpose, like that's very important. There is no better way, in my opinion, to build wealth for the average person, no more predictable way risk adjusted, to build wealth for the average person. You know, for the listeners out there. It's great that you're consuming this content, and if you can find a purpose behind it, then it'll help. And the other thing is, get clarity, right? There's a lot of different things you can do within real estate investing, but get clarity on what works for you. And the way to do that, frankly, is just kind of sit and think, I think, you know, especially in today's day and age, there's so many stimulus coming at us, from social media to everything that there's a risk of not being able to get clear. One of the big things that helped me during that, that period of, you know, 2009 to 2015 when we started to scale, was I was very clear about what we wanted. I had a buy box that was, you know, homes built this millennium B grade neighborhoods, cash flowed $300 or more with no more than 25% down in markets with population growth, job growth and favorable rent to price ratios. And when I was able to communicate with the agents and property managers, I was very clear on what we wanted to do. They had clarity on what they needed to do to help us scale so purpose and clarity.   Keith Weinhold  49:41   That's great guidance a specific Buy Box. Yes, focus is harder to find, and it's really important today. It's amazing. Nate, how much work I get done when my phone is one room away, over on the charger. It's incredible how that works. Well, it's been good to get your insight, and it's been good to talk to a guy. That might know the capital of Argentina much like I know a fellow geography guy and real estate investor. Yeah. I really want to thank you for sharing your insight with the audience today.    Nate O'Neil  50:11   Nate, I hope it's valuable for you in the audience.   Keith Weinhold  50:20   Oh yeah, good, relatable material this week, the first guest, Josh, also talked about how he took out a low interest rate car loan. So he held onto those funds rather than handing them over to an auto dealer, stayed liquid and used it for income property, creating a yield for himself that beat the car loan interest rate pretty smart. And before you do that, you do want to be sure that you've got enough liquidity to serve as debt. And then Nate the second one, the more experienced investor, reminding us that deals are not as good as they were coming off the global financial crisis. And he's right, but I still don't know of a better risk adjusted return today, like me, they both use professional property management. I mean, you do have the option of self managing your property remotely that you get from GRE marketplace. But of all the things in the world that you can learn about, even all the things in real estate investing that you can learn about, is self managing really what you want to spend your finite resource of time learning about. Even if you've got good tenants, you're bringing more intrusion and interruption into your life. Property managers don't just protect your asset, they protect your time. Big thanks to GRE listeners, Josh Fang and Nate O'Neil today until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  51:50   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  52:14   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got pay walls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point because even the word abbreviation is too long, my letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you'll also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre to 66866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text, gre to 66866   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get rich, education.com.    

Keith discusses the new power shift in the housing market, where buyers now have more power in the Northeast and Midwest.  Ken McElroy joins us to discuss the current state of the real estate market, highlighting a significant decline in apartment building values and a predicted further drop in home ownership rates, potentially below 60%. They note that while some states, like Arizona, have surpassed pre-pandemic housing supply levels, others, like the Northeast and Midwest, still face shortages. Ken emphasizes the importance of affordability and the shift towards renting, predicting a significant increase in renters. He also shares insights on strategic property investments and the benefits of buying at current market lows. Resources: Use the discount code "KEN10" to get a discount on the Limitless Expo event. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/559 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  You get paid first: Text FAMILY to 66866 Will you please leave a review for the show? I’d be grateful. Search “how to leave an Apple Podcasts review”  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text ‘GRE’ to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Automatically Transcribed With Otter.ai  Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, apartment building values have crashed about 30% in the past few years. Well, it's the opinion of today's qualified guest that it's going to get even worse from here. We'll also discuss why rents in the Phoenix area are declining, and a bold prediction on a collapse in the home ownership rate and the hordes of renters that that will create all today on get rich education.   Mid south home buyers, I mean, they're total pros, with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your ROI as their North Star. So it's no wonder that smart investors just keep lining up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone. They're headquartered in Memphis and have globally attractive cash flows and A plus rating with a better business bureau and now over 5000 houses renovated. There's zero mark up on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate, while their average renter stays more than three and a half years. Every home they offer has brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs, and wait for it, a high quality renter. Remember that part and in an astounding price range, 100 to 180k I've personally toured their office and their properties in person in Memphis, get to know Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one. Start yourself right now at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid south homebuyers.com   Speaker 1  1:59   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:15   Welcome to GRE from the Tigris to the Euphrates to the Mississippi and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold GRE founder Forbes real estate council member, Best Selling Author, look for my work in the USA today as well, and you are back inside for another wealth building week of get rich education. What's all that really mean? Ah, I'm just another slack jawed mouth breather with a mic here. Before we get to today's guest, Ken McElroy, let me tell you about housing's new power shift and where we're at today. Three to five years ago, sellers held all the power in virtually every market because the housing supply was so miserably low everywhere. So you had more one tours of real estate and few that were willing to sell. That is still mostly true on a national level, but the new power shift is about the fact that the Northeast and Midwest are replete with home buyers. Queues of buyers are lining up for the few available properties like I've touched on before, and look low available housing supply in these areas, the Midwest and Northeast, that's not a symptom of mass in migration. Hordes of people are not stampeding into Buffalo for the nightlife. It's all due to chronic under building, partly from strict regulation, especially in the Northeast. A big part of the power shift, though, is that we now have fully 10 states that are above pre pandemic supply levels, and you'll notice that none of these are in the Midwest and Northeast. The 10 states are Arizona, which we'll talk about more today, Colorado, Florida, Idaho, Hawaii, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Utah and Washington. Here in these places, is where the tables have turned, because supply is catching up with demand in those 10 states. So that's where we're seeing softer home price growth and where buyers have the power, these are some of the states where you can find better deals. Motivated sellers and builders in these places will often buy down your mortgage rate, give you closing cost credits or reward you with incentives, like a free year of property management. In fact, our GRE investment coaches guide you for free to exact property addresses where builders will buy down your mortgage rate to 5% today, one of them will even give you a $9,800 post close credit instead, if you so choose. Often do. Those like that are in those 10 states. They're elsewhere too. You can get started at GRE investment coach.com, conversely, 40 states have less for sale housing inventory than they did as compared to pre pandemic times. This is where sellers still have the power some of the most competitive markets in the nation are buffalo, Hartford, Providence and Boston, where more than 10 active home buyers vie for every single listing. That's per Zillow. That's sort of the real estate equivalent of a Taylor Swift or Beyonce ticket queue. At the other end of the spectrum, shoppers have an easier time in Miami with only 2.6 shoppers per listing, followed by Houston at 3.4 New Orleans at 3.5 and San Antonio at 4.3 nationally active listings are up 31% over last year. That's quite a bit, but we're still 12% below pre pandemic, 2019 inventory levels. And is all this good news or bad news? It totally depends on who you are. If you're holding property in the Northeast and Midwest, you're pretty happy about this strong appreciation in the single family space, but in the southeast, appreciation is non existent. There's even mild depreciation, especially in parts of Florida. If you're looking to own more property in the nation's southeast quadrant, you're now enjoying less buyer competition. In fact, sellers are competing for you, and let's avoid being too assuming. Here I've been talking about things on the state level. States are not monoliths. Philadelphia is not Pittsburgh, Seattle is not Yakima. Cities have different supply situations. Even within one city, the scenario varies, of course, really the bottom line here is that today's recovery from 2022 national supply abyss has been an uneven recovery, where builders are frozen, appreciation soars, where builders hustle, buyers win. So if you're looking for deals, find that short queue.    Today's guest is a familiar one to GRE listeners. He's based in Scottsdale, Arizona, which is the Phoenix Metro. Arizona, though it's fast growing, is still just the 14th most populous state, but Arizona is an interesting market, because we're going to get to see what happens when you have an overbuilt condition, like we do there. We'll discuss that market and the national market as well. Get a key gage on the direction of rents, occupancy and prices, first in the single family space, and then we'll talk about apartments. Anyone that's paid attention to real estate that past few years. Knows that when mortgage rates spiked in 2022 single family values have held up, apartment values plummeted due to their interest rate resets. We'll get insight on if the beleaguered apartment space has bottomed out price wise, or if apartment values still have further to fall.    I'd like to welcome in frequent GRE guest, and he was also one of our earliest back in 2015 Ken McElroy. Ken authored a bunch of successful books, both within and outside of the rich dad series. He's also a well known, successful apartment syndicator with over 10,000 units across several states, and he's also in other parts of the commercial real estate sector, including billboards and self storage. So it's really great to have back on the show. Ken McElroy   Ken McElroy  8:57   good to be here, Keith, thank you. It's been 10 years, man, since we've been doing   Keith Weinhold  9:01   this? Yes, 10 years back in episode 25 since you were first here, more than a decade of this. So we know each other's work really well, and it's such an interesting time in the apartment space. I want to get to that later in our conversation today and really find out if you think that the apartment space has bottomed out. But before we do that, let's talk about the single family space. The audience should know that you can meet both Ken and I in person, as we're both faculty members on the spectacular real estate guys Investor Summit C, which is actually underway now. We're recording this just before the summit. So let's discuss the direction of rents and occupancy. We'll get to price later and Ken although most states still have a housing shortage statewide, Arizona's active housing inventory for sale is 24% above pre pandemic levels. That's what realtor.com tells us, and this. Deeply due to a lot of building, a lot of building usually does not bode well for price growth or rent growth. So tell us about rent, direction and occupancy in the single family space in the Phoenix Metro.   Ken McElroy  10:15   There's a bunch of things happening in the Arizona market. First of all, one is we've had a lot of people move here right in the last 4,5,6, years. Yeah, post pre pandemic, post pandemic, all of that. We are a pretty small state. You got Phoenix, got Tucson, you got Flagstaff, a bunch of other small cities that kind of surround some of those. But it's not like a Texas or a Washington or a lot of these California, like a lot of states, and have a lot of cities to draw from. If people move to Phoenix, that's pretty much where they're they start a lot of times, not every time, but and so it's really interesting. When we have net in migration into Arizona, it really moves the needle for most of these cities. Is kind of the point. And so we're always going to be affordable, we're always going to have great weather, it's safe. We got pretty normal politics, I should say, as compared to some of the others, we really do have a growing population. And so what happened? We had a nice run on the real estate. As you do, you know, we had a nice run on the apartments. We had a nice run on the single family that tapered off when the interest rates went up, essentially, right? You know, we actually built too much. We built too many apartments. We built too many houses. When interest rates went up, people kind of pulled back. That's what you're seeing now. So right now, it's a great time to be a home buyer. It's a great time to be a renter in most of those cities in Arizona specifically. And why would that be? It's because they have a lot of choices. So on the single family side, the listings have gone up, and therefore some of the prices have you know, people are starting to negotiate a little bit more. Now here's the interesting thing, Keith, if you measure it on last year or the year before, it has huge numbers, like you just quoted, you know, 24% but what's happening is things are on the market like 40 days, you know, you know what I mean, like from a week or two, it's doubled or tripled, as you know, that's still not a very realistic market. The market is still, in my opinion, pretty healthy. It's not unbalanced, and before it was a seller's market, and so it's just normalizing. And normalizing, to me, if you go over year, over year, over year, is I think MLS says four to six months of inventory, right? I think things are just normalizing. But if you've been through the run, this is like the end of the world, right? But it's not. It's just things are settling down, and it's the greatest time because they're supposed to be a little bit of friction between the seller and the buyer. I believe there should be just about right. It's never just right, as you know, it's usually pulls on one harder on one side or the other. But we just went through an incredible time where the sellers pretty much got whatever they wanted and the landlords pretty much got whatever they wanted, and so this is just pulling back, you know, the tide's going back out. There's no cause for concern, at least in my world at all. It's supposed to be this way, and we need affordability. We need people to be able to buy homes. We need people to be able to rent. Yeah, I'm in the landlord business, but I don't want rents to run. There needs to be a balance there, even though it's good for me, if it does, but it's not good, because what happens is, then the government gets involved, and what they need to get involved in is adding supply, right? And not capping the rents. You know, what they need to do is just work with developers. And you know, because we're growing here in Arizona right now, we're seeing a pullback, but I think it's needed. There's nothing wrong with this. It weeds out a lot of, you know, realtors that weren't doing much, that just got their license, were hanging around, say, with mortgage folks and title people and lazy contractors and all that stuff. So whenever there's a pullback, the professionals win.   Keith Weinhold  14:01   Well, this is some really good perspective here. We're all victims of the recency bias, and, yeah, you're talking largely about market normalization. What sure wasn't normal or healthy, in a lot of ways, was back in 2021 when you might have had 50 offers for one available property, and people had to bid 50k over the asking price, and they might have waived their inspection, which is typically not a good idea when we talk about rents in the direction of rents, especially there in the Phoenix metro with single family homes, which I know your wife, Daniil, is pretty intimately involved with. Typically, this new supply increases competition. It increases the competition for landlords competing for more of those tenants, which is something that typically is not good for rents. Have we seen declining rents in the local market there in Phoenix?   Ken McElroy  14:54   Of course, yeah. And I'll tell you, there's a bunch of factors. So there's always cross currents. People want one. Answer, but there's not right, like, so let's just pick on a whole bunch of things that went wrong at the tail end of all of this. It was Airbnb. Like, Phoenix and Scottsdale are a huge Airbnb market. I've rented Airbnbs there. Sure. It's incredible, right? And so what happened was a lot of people said, oh, I can buy this house, throw some furniture in it. And, you know, I can get 10,15, 20 grand a month in rent out of these things. And they were right. And then what happened was, there just was too many, so became oversaturated. So you're definitely seeing those back on the market. And so interesting fact, Heath, all you got to do is look at the pictures. And if you see bunk beds. You know, it used to be an Airbnb like, you know what I mean? So that was the one, but two, let's don't forget this run that we just had put a lot of people into the rental market for the first time on the single family side too. So we never really had this many landlords on the single family side as well. And so there's all these mistakes that people made. They bought incorrectly. They had capex work. They bought with floating rate debt. And when rates went up, they weren't cash flowing. They wouldn't know how to manage them. So So there's all this stuff that was kind of going on behind the scenes, on the apartment side of the equation, which is where I hang out. Mostly, I watch all this. And because my class A buildings are competing for single family. They have single family typically wins because it has a yard, has a garage. Nonetheless, I gotta pay attention to it. So it's been interesting to watch. At one point you could not find a home in the Scottsdale area under 500 grand period like nothing. And now, of course, those are starting to come down a little bit more, and there's some softness in the rent, so the renters are have more choices. Now, why is that? There's a couple reasons. If you're a renter and you're looking for a place, you know, I'm sure you're considering a house, but not everybody wants a house, especially if you're single or maybe it's just you and somebody else, and maybe you don't have a pet. There's a lot of reasons that people just don't want to have to a home. So you've got condos and you've got apartments and you've got homes, and then you have school districts. So people definitely want to be in certain school districts based on their children. So you have all these cross currents going on, on where people want to be. And so what does all that mean? What that means is there are certain markets, from a rental standpoint, that are doing extremely well, still, both on apartments, on condos and houses. And then there are other markets that absolutely are not just depends on the concentration of all those things and all those factors that are going on. The one thing that's actually disrupting a market more than anything is apartments and condos. Because, for example, Danielle just had a condo that she owned, and the condo was worth, let's say, 300 grand, but it's probably 25 years old now, yeah, and there's apartments going up, you know, a block from there, right? So her renter is said, you know, I'd rather go over here. Brand new amenities, nine foot ceilings, brand new fitness center, all this stuff. So apartments really do reach into that rental market a little bit. And so there is some spillover between that. But primarily what's going on in Phoenix is there's a lot of new construction. And not just Phoenix. This is Tucson and Greater Phoenix. There's a lot of new construction that was started when rates were low. They were started in 2122 and you know, like, because I'm a builder, it could be a year to 18 months when we're opening a project from the time we put our the shovel in the dirt, we're not even open for a good 18 months. So there's a lag period. And those started opening in 23,24 and certainly 25 and these big projects, two, 300 unit projects, which I have several going right now, they're one to two year lease ups, so you could be looking at two or three year lag on some of the housing that's being provided. So that's all here now that is been good for renters. There's a couple horror stories going on, and I'll just explain. So downtown Phoenix, there was a whole bunch of apartment projects and condo projects that were built trying to attract people to live in downtown Phoenix? Well, there's challenges for downtown Phoenix too, and we won't have to get into that. I don't particularly think that there was ever the real demand for the amount of housing. So what you've done is people build a lot of housing in concentrated areas around the stadium in West Phoenix, near the Cardinal Stadium downtown Phoenix, you know, right in the heart of the business district. So if you were to rent something today, it would be four months free on a 12 month lease.   Keith Weinhold  19:48   Wow, that's about the steepest concession I've ever heard of in my life.   Ken McElroy  19:54   Yes, that's today. So all you gotta do is Google it and you'll see. And the only reason that happened, Keith, is. Is because there was too many units delivered at at a short period of time, and there was the demand, wasn't there? Gosh, now go 10 miles up to Tempe, go to Chandler, go to Scottsdale. No concessions, right? So again, you know, when you look at a market, you're going to see that it typically a lot of these concentrate in certain areas. And so there's a lot of areas in Phoenix where the consumer or the renter has an upper hand a lot. And so they're driving their choices based on their monthly rent. All of that plays into this thing, but the there's areas that are rock solid. And you know that would be Scottsdale, Tempe, Chandler, Gilbert, and there's areas that are over built that would be the west side, downtown Phoenix, the south side, there's areas that there's pockets that you know are in disruption you can kind of pick your poison, right? Like, if you're a landlord, there are areas that you want to buy in areas that you don't want to buy in. And as a renter, you have the same kind of choices. So when you blend it all together, you guys get the national news. But really it's pretty pocketed, just like it can be in any market.   Keith Weinhold  21:12   Well, you bring up so many good points there. Some of these markets that have done more building than usual are in this situation where there is landlord competition for tenants. Now, nationally, we're still under built, so it's interesting to talk about one of these overbuilt conditions in that competition for tenants, like we've been talking about, in general, a tenant prefers a single family home, and it's privacy for sure. They can't always afford that, but the apartment market and the single family rental market are somewhat interrelated, because if there's so much new apartment supply, it's got the appeal of being brand new, and there might even be concessions given, like you've mentioned there Ken and that can make it very attractive for a potentially wannabe single family home renter to go ahead and rent an apartment instead. So this glut of new apartment supply actually can affect the single family rental market somewhat, and competition is really interesting. I mean, certainly in my real estate investment career, I've experienced that. The first time I ever experienced that was that I owned several doors, and they were about 25 years old, and they had garages, each one of them a new apartment complex was built close to those so brand new, and you had to drive by this new apartment complex. Everything nice, shiny new, painted new parking lot, everything a prospective tenant had to drive by that in order to get over to look to my units. That softened my rent somewhat. The one thing that saved me a bit is that my running units were in Anchorage, Alaska, I had the garages with my units. The new apartment building didn't. They only had carports, so I did have a differentiator to help soften the blow in a rental market that became more competitive. Tell us more about the competition for tenants there in Phoenix, whether that's on the single family side or the apartment side can with concessions. And does that mean that you're altering the length of leases there in the local market? Or tell us more about how you're doing that competition?   Ken McElroy  23:10   It's a great question, yeah. So I would say generally, a home is going to be about 1000 bucks more on the average, like if you were just to put a number on it, three bedroom, Rambler type home with a garage in a yard. It's going to be maybe three grand. That apartment, the equivalent was is going to be maybe two grand. So roughly, those are kind of the numbers. But what happens if you're going to rent a house, you're definitely going to pay more money, that's for sure. And of course, depending on the area, depends on the on the rent. Now what's happening in a lot of these markets, like West Phoenix, for example, where you have 1000s of units being added at once, and you get this one month, two month, three month, and the extreme, of course, being four months free, if you're a renter and your rent is two grand, but you get three months free, let's say or four, you're going to take that deal, right? Because your your your average rent is, what 12,13, $1,400 a month, not 2000 so all of a sudden, it's going to impact those single families. So what's happening right now is the apartments that got delivered in in a lot of these geographic areas, these sub markets are definitely impacting the single family rental market. Now, if you're a family and you've got kids and you got pets and you want to be in a school district, you're not even looking you're basically just trying to find the best deal on a home. I get that. But if you have a choice, the rents are about the same, you're going to take the house, sure period I would, you would. So now what's happening is there's, there's such a difference between the rental price of a home versus the rental price of a brand new apartment that people are going to gravitate to the apartments, because those landlords trying to fill those things up are scrambling and marketing to anybody. And everybody and cutting whatever deals they can, because they're just trying to get out of those construction loans. It's a weird market right now. And of course, there are areas Keith that this does not exist at all, right, like you go into like Tempe, and you're not going to have because it doesn't have the available land, you know, which is around Arizona state for example, the Arizona State University. You go into North Scottsdale, you're not going to find this because North Scottsdale doesn't like apartments. And, you know, the homes are a million bucks and up, but there are definitely pockets where this is happening. So if you're a renter and you have choices, this is a great time for you and and to be honest, it's about time, because it was a seller's market and a landlord's market for a long time, and so it's just reverting back to the mean.   Keith Weinhold  25:46   Let's wrap up the discussion about rents and occupancy with what's happening nationally. Ken, since in apartment buildings, you invest in multiple states there, we know, for example, that the home ownership rate recently fell from 65.7% down to 65.1% fewer homeowners means more renters. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they're all going to be absorbed immediately, either. So talk to us about that.    Ken McElroy  26:13   There's an affordability problem, right? We haven't seen a massive adjustment with house prices now you have in areas, of course, I saw your recent podcast on Florida. You know how right the price of a house is, is less than a car today? Yeah, you're right, like so, but what's happening is there are markets that are pulling back, right. There are markets that had a bigger bubble than others, and they're pulling back. And so there's great deals in those markets. A lot of areas in Florida being one of those markets, there are other markets where you don't have that. So we are definitely seeing the same thing. And so we're having, in my opinion, it's the greatest time, because you have people that are, I think, should be able to buy a home. But interest rates seem to be holding at Six 7% and the pricing, albeit, hasn't run like it has, but it's certainly not pulling back like crazy either. It's still over 400 on the average, you know. So if you look at the delta between what it costs to buy a home just mortgage only, and you look at what it costs to rent, it's never been bigger. So the difference between your rent, the rent and a mortgage, has never been bigger. And the other thing Keith, that doesn't get talked a lot about are everything non interest rate and everything non mortgage. So let's start talking about insurance. Let's talk about property tax. Let's talk about, you know, capex. So there's a really good survey that bankrate.com did that said that right now, the average cost to own a home, not mortgage, is 1500 a month. So now that's average. I'm sure there's some that's less. I'm sure it's some that higher. So when you take 1500 a month to own it, plus the mortgage you're talking about quite a bit. It's a heck of a financial commitment when you can just rent for 12, 1314, 1500 and call it a day, you're going to move the needle twice as fast, and you're going to be able to get out of whatever financial situation you're in twice as fast when you don't have all those other costs. So what's really going on now? And the reason why you're starting to see this home ownership rate go down, and I actually make a prediction, gonna do it right now on your show, I think it's gonna go down below 60. I think for the first time in our history, we're gonna see home ownership in the 5050 nines, which is a massive statement. But if you take a look at under Obama got up to 69 and then it was, first of all, it was Clinton, and before that, and then kind of ran, but then it kind of got pulled back under the Bush, and then Obama kind of took the brunt of it. You know, when all that stuff was falling out, but it's been falling, and it's falling. Why it's falling? Because people can't afford a home, and they need to be able to afford a home. So we can't build affordably. The single family market is not affordable, and inflation surpassing wage growth, so you have this massive shift of people, in my opinion, moving from home ownership to the rental side. And there was a time where 1% shift Keith was 1 million people,   Keith Weinhold  29:27   1 million new renters, with every 1% drop in the home ownership rate   Ken McElroy  29:32   was 1 million people. So imagine that it doesn't sound like much when you go 65.7 to 65.1 right? That's a lot of people. When you got about 142 million people in the US, or a billion, right? 340   Keith Weinhold  29:46   350 million in 300 Yeah, about 145 million houses,   Ken McElroy  29:51   45 million, yeah, something like that. So you start to take a look at these numbers. They're massive. So these little 1% movement. It is a lot of people. I think we're going to continue to see it. People need to put their stake in the ground here and get on the landlord side of this, because we're going to see a massive shift of people because they can't afford they're going to be permanent renters, renters for life. And it's not good. I'm not advocating, but it just is what it is, with wage destruction, with inflation, with the affordability, the way it is, people are going to be forced into the rental side of the equation, whereas before, we were always kind of working on the fluctuations of the interest rates and the policies of the President, let's say, or whatever it was, to try to get people to be homeowners, or whatever it might be. Now, we might be in some kind of a permanent state unless something really changes, because we're four or 5 million houses short in the US as a result of the last 20 years. As you know,   Keith Weinhold  30:54   I recently saw a media article that was titled The hidden cost of home ownership, and they were talking about hidden costs as things like maintenance, property taxes, property insurance, utilities. I don't know how in the heck those costs are hidden. Any prospective homeowner needs to be aware of those costs, and inflation impacts those costs, where inflation cannot impact your fixed rate, principal and interest payment. There we have it a brazen prediction from Ken that the home ownership rate will drop below 60% in this cycle and the hordes of renters that that's going to release, we're talking about the direction of rents and occupancy in both Phoenix and the nation at large. We're going to come back after the break and talk about the direction of real estate prices. You're listening to get rich education. Our guest is Ken McElroy. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold.   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. 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Can you corroborate Is that what you're seeing as far as values go there on the ground, or is it different in the sub markets    Ken McElroy  34:20   it's definitely different in the sub markets, but I would definitely concur that it is flat, Keith, it's a very interesting time. People are used to selling things fast. Oh, I'm going to sell this and it trades, and then they're moving it right to something else. They're not used to the markets that you and I grew up in, right which is, you remember the old days where we would list something and it might be on the market for three or four or five months. These people, these kids, these let's last 10 years, they have never seen anything like that. So for me, I think we're just moving back to what I would consider to be normal. I don't see a problem with flat at all. In fact, I think homes are unaffordable and. And flat isn't necessarily bad. That means that both sides are kind of doing deals. That means the seller doesn't hold the cards, and it means the buyer doesn't hold the cards, and so right now is a great time to buy because if a seller is sitting on something for even a couple months, they're not used to it. There's deals to be had right now. And it's, I think, if you have the dry powder and you have the ability to move, is a great time to buy.   Keith Weinhold  35:26   You had mentioned, when we were talking outside this show, that your wife, Danielle has made some interesting moves in her single Yeah, yeah, tell us about that.   Ken McElroy  35:36   It's a fantastic move. I mean, one of the greatest, obviously, I'm doing these big apartment deals, she can't relate, and she's doing these small houses, which she loves. She doesn't like debt. She likes to pay them off, and she manages them all herself. And so she bought this condo years ago, and it's worth about 300 grand, and she paid like 164 years ago, and the rents have dropped. You know, per our last conversation, they were used to be around 1900 now they're around 1700 but the same time, rents have dropped. And why would rents drop? Because there's more competition. There's new apartment buildings being built around the area. The tenants have more choices. Again. There's, you know, rents came down a little bit. So she lost couple 100 bucks a month there, and the HOA hit her with costs. Our insurance went up, our landscaping went up, so all of a sudden their HOA fees started going up. So the rents came down, and the HOA costs went up, squeezes on, yeah, so all sudden she's got this squeeze and so she's looking at it. And I said, you really ought to take a look at your what we call imputed equity. In other words, she has no debt on this thing, so she literally has another way to say it is she has 300,000 sitting in a condo, an asset. What does it matter? What it is and she gets maybe, what does she make it 500 a month, maybe $6,000 okay? Net Cash Flow a year, right? Nothing. So you take your 6000 you divide it by your 300 and it's not a very good return. Yeah, eight. Okay, so she's looking at what we call imputed equity. What's your return on the equity you have? Okay, so she said, I'm going to start looking at these homes that have, like you said, the garages and the yards, because again, we know that should be able to get closer to $3,000 a month on those so she started scouring, and she found one, and it was about 450 grand. So she had to come up with another 150 grand. And so what she did was she sold the unit, the condo she had that had rising HOA and lowering rents for 300 she did a 1031 exchange into the $450,000 house, and then she had to come up with another 150 but her rent now is three grand, and she was able to increase her cash flow By almost $1,000 for a month. So that extra 150 generated about $12,000 of net cash flow gain. And so again, she just purely looked at the math on one and did a 1031 moved it into another one. And now she's super happy it's in a home. And as you know, in a lot of these homes, not always, but you tend to have people that don't move as much. So this the guy that moved in has his son. He has him in a local school. He's young. He's probably going to be there for years, so she's probably not going to have the turnover that she would in a condo project. That's really more like an apartment building. That's what she just did. And so don't forget, when prices are high, you're exiting high and buying high. When prices are in flux, a little bit like they are flat, you're going to be able to find deals. So it's a really good time to take a look at imputed equity and what's your real, true return, and is there a better asset class for you to be able to move that money into? Because this is truly about managing money and maximizing your return on your own dollars. And that's a move that she just made, and she's going to be on the cruise. She'll see you, and I'm encouraging her to actually do a talk on it, because there's a lot more detail to how she pulled it off. But it only took her, like, four or five months to do it, and it worked perfectly.   Keith Weinhold  39:22   Yeah. Well, congratulations there. I'm a fan of debt around here, as you know, on the summit, Daniel and I'll have to have a chat, and I'll talk about why financially free beats debt free and all of that. But I would love to hear her reply. She probably has some really good, sound reasoning for that can nationally apartment values have followed perhaps an astounding 30% because the way I see it is that three or four years ago, there were tons of new apartment starts with those freakishly low mortgage rates like you touched on. Start to completion of an apartment building can be as long as two years. So those starts have now become completion. Dollars, and they need to be leased up. So that's the glut, and that's why apartment vacancies are common in a lot of American markets today, with higher mortgage rates now, we have fewer starts and with less new future apartment supply coming onto the market, which would have been completed in 2025 to 2027 I mean, that's something that could portend well for the future, but the current apartment glut still needs to get absorbed by tenants. So talk to us about that.   Ken McElroy  40:29   That's a great, great tee up for me. Okay, so I'm going to do seven transactions this year. Now, that's all 200 plus units. So I bought 360 unit building and brand new in Las Vegas. We just closed on a 282 unit in north Scottsdale. We bought 152 unit in Phoenix. And on and on and on and on and on. We're really, really, really busy right now, because, to your point, why would we be doing that now? Here's why apartments are valued based on how they're operating period. So high vacancy, high concession, flat rents, high expenses. That's all bad if you own it, it's really good if you buy it. So you want to buy at today's numbers, and that's what we're doing. We're buying at today's numbers, and we think that there's a little window that we've got through 26 to be able to acquire a bunch of apartments at these low values. To your point, they've definitely dropped. There's another case as to why, because the next piece is when the mortgage rate's high, cash flow is less. So when your mortgage payment is higher, all things being equal, your cash flow is less. So when rates went up, then people could pay less, and that drove values down. So if we could lock in today with all this disruption, so that's what we've been focused on. And it's been a very exciting year for our company. And in addition to that, to your point, but you and I have never spoken about, we just broke ground on another deal, and we're just leasing up on a deal down in Tucson that we're we're a 300 unit building that we're just finishing, and we just broke ground on a 312 unit, and we got a couple more slated because we're trying to break ground today. And why would we would break ground today because there's not a lot of subcontractors bidding on the stuff. So we're getting better pricing. The interest rates are high. This is true. That's not necessarily a positive, but we're breaking ground in anticipation of opening in two years, when all this stuff gets absorbed, we're going to be opening and so, you know, if we could time it today with 25 we break ground, we're going to open in 27 this stuff will be absorbed by then the blood will be in the streets in 25 and 26 and maybe early 27 and then it's going to shift again, Keith, and you know, people are slow to react. And so we think we're going to hit this little window at optimal time to be able to open up brand new product in two years.   Keith Weinhold  43:05   That's great. Ken we've been having these conversations for over a decade now, I know, and the way that I see it is that MC companies, your company, was built exactly for times like this. Is that to say that you think apartment values have reached their bottom,   Speaker 2  43:22   so I actually don't think they have yet. That's a funny comment, and here's why, because we also went through this extend and pretend time with lenders, right? So the lenders, whoever bought something, was trying to hold on to it forever. But now, with this new administration and the battle with the, you know, Powell still in office for another year. Who knows really, what's going to happen with rates? Maybe a quarter here, quarter there, whatever. But the reality is, there's no relief in sight. It doesn't appear. Because now we have this high vacancy, we have high expenses, and I don't think there's going to be a lot of interest rate relief. And so I think the lenders are going, you know what? We're gonna start listing these. So we're starting to see just in the last few months, brokers call. I got a call the other day from a broker out of San Antonio. He said a lender called me. They gave me nine deals. He said the keys, they gave me the keys on nine deals now and then I got another one in Dallas. It was 35% occupied, and the loan was 25 million, and the guy said they would take 14, so that's an $11 million haircut to the lender. So you're starting to see these. These are coming into my emails, right? Because they flooded. We are kind of deal. Yeah, it's so good. Now I've passed on everything so far because I think the knife is still falling a little bit, and so I think we're in the first few innings of seeing these kinds of deals, and there needs to be a lot of them, right? Like they need to be everywhere. And then when they're everywhere, everything's listed, and people are looking at them, and there's all this interest, then I think we're going to be at the bottom, but we're darn close. I mean, we're darn close, I would say. Right? We're probably by end of the year close. That's why, if a prudent investor, is getting their dry powder together, now they're meeting with their broker relationships, now they're meeting with their lender relationships, now they're putting together their LPs, and they're starting to go out and look at deals. Now, even if it's no no, no, no, no, no, no. This is the time for you to build relationships and be ready to strike when you start to see stuff this year, toward the end of the year, will will be the bottom and then I also think next year is going to be rocky for a lot of things. Then you're going to see a lot of lender write offs.    Keith Weinhold  45:37   This is really good guidance for what you the listener, can accidentally do if you are a prospective apartment building buyer. Great insight there. Ken. Ken, yes, you and I are about to be together on the real estate guys Investor Summit to see but there's another great event that begins at the end of next month that you put together.    Ken McElroy  45:59   Tell us about that. This is great. I have now we have about 4000 investors. So these are all high net worth people that invest with us. And you know, this is our 24th year in business. So when I meet with all of them, we used to do these investor summits, they would say, What about gold? What about silver? What about oil? What about water? What about timber? What about self storage? What about Office? What about retail? So I'm like, I'm going to create a conference where I can have everything in one spot, and we can invite high net worth, accredited people be able to come there and listen to the best of the best. So no professional speakers, just people that are really doing deals. You know, like we have guys that are building wellness spas and hospitality. Obviously, we have some single family. We got multi family. Got a retail guy, industrial guy, commercial guy, office guy. We got a gold panel. And then we got these economists, and you probably know some of the names. So we got George gammon coming. We got Jeff Snyder, who's unbelievable Euro dollar University. He's coming. We got Brent Johnson, who created what's called the milkshake theory. And just Google it, you'll see it's all about the central banks. We got Jim Rickards, who wrote currency wars and a new case for gold. And we got Lawrence Lepard, who just wrote this book called The Big print. All coming as speakers unpaid, and they're just going to try to deliver the best value they can to the people. Because I tell you what, Keith, I don't know about you, but it's confusing. I'm reading about tariffs, I'm reading about inflation. I'm reading about unemployment. I don't know where interest rates are going. I'm feeling it at the street level, at the main street level, with my apartment buildings, they're harder to manage. The expenses are going up. I try to create this environment to where people can show up and hear real real things, and they can make real decisions and course correct, right, and also take advantage of of some other things. We're also having a manufacturing panel, and I got a whole panel just on the Trump tax bill, because the opportunity zones, the bonus depreciation, all the stuff, these are things that you can do to be able to take action. So this is limitless expo.com. Since we're on your show, they can do KEN10. KEN10, which is a discount, the prices do go up. Obviously they're the highest. They are in July, because that's when the event is but in June, they're still lower. So I would suggest that people go this year, especially with this new administration, and everybody's like, what is going on? Hopefully we can it's starting to clear up some of the confusion that we all have right now and try to figure things out.   Keith Weinhold  48:36   It seems like all we do know is that we don't know limitless ought to help clear some of that up. It is July 31 to August 2. Tell us where it's taking place.   Ken McElroy  48:47   Yeah, it's at the gaylord in Texas, in Dallas, Texas. It's called the Gaylord Texan. It's limitless expo.com. Now we did it last year. There'll be 2000 people. We have 50 speakers. We have five stages, 50 speakers. It's a really high end event. What I mean by that is these are real people doing real deals with real businesses, real investors. It's been fantastic. I haven't had to pay speakers because of the quality of the attendee. That says a lot. It's really been interesting and great. And by the way, I don't really think having big speakers to sell tickets is the way to go. I'd rather have a real quality event, and it's really interesting once you set your mind on something. Because my investors and other investors show up because they do more than invest in just what we do. Like real estate. Everybody wants a little piece of real estate, but they also want to know about Bitcoin. They also want to know about gold, you know. And these are things that I'm not that proficient in, you know. I want to hear from experts in those fields. So it's really been a great, great event.   Keith Weinhold  49:48   You kind of crowdsource the need. You listen to what your audience was asking about, and then you delivered it for them. Limitless expo.com, use the discount code KEN10 to get. Get a discount. Ken McElroy, it's been great chatting about the direction of rents and prices in the both single family space and apartment space. It's been great having you back on the show.   Ken McElroy  50:09   Yeah, for sure. Keith, always great. Man. Good seeing you.   Keith Weinhold  50:18   Yeah. Ken, decidedly bullish on buying real estate, even calling it a great time to buy. He basically believes that because buyers have more power than they did three and four years ago, and they have more options, an emphatic prediction that the home ownership rate will fall below 60% there is profundity here. I mean, the census figures on this go back to the 1960s and the lowest it's fallen in all that time was 63% by the way, homeownership peaked in 2004 at 69% apartment values have crashed about 30% and It's probably going to get worse. So the worst isn't over, but likely will be by about the end of this year. So in Ken's opinion, most of the worst is over. I'm reading in between the lines there on that one. Hey, I hope you've been enjoying this show lately. Next week, we're going to change things up somewhat here. Recently, we've had rather prominent guests on the show, like the father of Reaganomics, David Stockman, then Russell gray last week, this week, the owner of 10,000 running units, Ken McElroy. And you know their perspectives and experience and influence, they are terrific. And I trust that you've learned from them. Next week, we'll have two GRE listeners here on the show, regular listeners, perhaps people more like you, because you can probably relate well to their stories. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  51:59   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  52:22   You know, whenever you want the best written real estate and finance info, oh, geez, today's experience limits your free articles access, and it's got paywalls and pop ups and push notifications and cookies disclaimers. It's not so great. So then it's vital to place nice, clean, free content into your hands that adds no hype value to your life. That's why this is the golden age of quality newsletters. And I write every word of ours myself. It's got a dash of humor, and it's to the point, because even the word abbreviation is too long. My letter usually takes less than three minutes to read, and when you start the letter, you also get my one hour fast real estate video. Course, it's all completely free. It's called the Don't quit your Daydream letter. It wires your mind for wealth, and it couldn't be easier for you to get it right now. Just text gre 266, 866, while it's on your mind, take a moment to do it right now. Text GRE TO 66866   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com