Cider Chat

Cleaning considerations for 3 different cider operations - DYI, Farm Winery and Production with Stormalong Cider. (l-r) Ben Roberts-Sano, Bright McConnell, Shannon Edgar DIY - Home Cidermaking  It is soak and scrub for the DIYers. Soak carboys parts nylon bags airlocks all threaded parts Rinse with copious amounts of water thoroughly and sanitize. Boil with hot water, if possible. Drainage and setup are a major consideration Due to the common lack of pumps/ floor drains. Effluent should not affect your septic, if you brew a batch or 2 per year. Biggest maker hang ups Using low quality materials which can't stand the cleaning Not scrubbing enough Not disassembling/boiling threaded or other  non sanitary parts Farm winery set up Have some sort of floor drain, and some sort of pump capable of driving a spray ball. Rinse by pumping into a spray ball Drain to floor when rinsing tanks Always pump the water from a fully clean and neutralized tank, to the tank being cleaned Spray gross soils in the tanks out before starting to clean Tanks must be vented during cleaning, and all parts should be removed. Any areas under manways or probes that might obstruct the spray must manually be scrubbed. Take off and clean manway gaskets, and ensure sight lines are cleaned Clean and sanitize throughly racking arms and carb stones for best results Biggest hangups for Farm Winery Not Enough hot water Not having adequate drainage and wastewater handling Some small cideries with no wastewater handling will skip all of this in lieu of a steam or hot water pressure washer. They spray the tanks to remove soils, then partially close them up and allow the metal to reach 170-180 degrees to sanitize, then purge out any air with nitrogen argon or CO2. Commercial scale Set Up Automation and verification, regular inspection and replacement of parts Rubber parts and hoses that become cracked can no longer be adequately cleaned and must be thrown out. Even steel parts can become too scratched to be cleaned properly. Chemicals are tested for potency to determine if they are depleted by cleaning, and to insure adequate rinsing The inside of the tank may be tested for microbial action by plating or ATP test Commercial Plants at this scale invest in better Jet or rotating spray balls Dedicated cleaning tanks / pumps, caustic recovery, re heat, and re use More, and hotter water for cleaning To sanitize commercial cider makers may use plant steam/  PAA with a dosatron or CLO2 to kill remaining microbes Biggest hang ups for Commercial operators Not inspecting enough Not rinsing enough Trying to be too efficient  Mentions in this Chat Listen to initial Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA Cidermaking Series Part 1 - How to Make Cider at Home Part 2 - Maker Tips for Growth and Cleanliness Part 3 - Cidery Sanitation Tips Contact info for Stormalong Website https://www.stormalong.com/ Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

This is Part 3 featuring chemistry safety tips for cidermakers! Part 1 - How to Make Cider at home, provides a recipe for making a 1 gallon jug of cider Part 2 - Makers Tips for Growth and Cleanliness was the first part of a conversation with the Cider Team at Stormalong Cider in Leominster, Massachusetts. Stormalong Head Cidermaker, Ben Robert-Sano begins with an overview of these 3 components to and then  Stormalong Operations Manager Bright McConnell discusses recommended sanitizers to use in cidermaking. [caption id="attachment_5428" align="aligncenter" width="300"] Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong, MA[/caption] In Part 3 we continue our conversation focusing on Caustic chemicals to use Managing chemicals Acids Chemicals Caustics For cleaning fermentation soils, I recommend gluconated caustic at 1%, or PBW for those of you with aluminum parts. These are dangerous chemicals so wear a dust mask(pbw ) , long gloves and eye goggles when working with the chemicals Cleaning chemicals are most dangerous before dilution, so don't spill. Even a few drips of pure caustic will take gallons of water to wash off , and the residue can transfer, say from your shoes to your hands. Take extra care when handling chemical concentrates and keep a gallon of white vinegar (or hard cider) and a box of baking soda handy for neutralizing, should it get on your skin or clothing.1-1.5 oz per gallon Acids Cleaning also kills bacteria which live in biofilms. In order to maximize this kill, Ben recommends: treating hard water buildup rejuvenate the surface of your stainless steel parts with occasional acid cleaning use strong citric, or Methanesulfonic acid for acid cleaning. nitric/ phosphoric are also effective, but have more environmental impact if on a septic sysytem 1-1.5 oz per gallon Sanitizers For sanitizing the Stormalong Cider team recommends: Iodophor. It is easy to see when it is active. It is effective, requires no rinse, and has minimal flavor impact when properly diluted DO NOT USE STAR SAN it is not an EPA registered cleaner. The Five Star brand makes an iodophor if you prefer their products. Use 1 ounce of Iodophor per 5 gallons, not 1 oz per gallon like the other cleaners CAUTION: Idophor can cause blindness if it contacts your eye. Wear glasses when used. PAA, Sulfites, and CL02 are very effective but are only to be used by commercial scale cideries. spraying or handling these chemicals can cause immediate respiratory or eye damage if used incorrectly. You should always dose these chemicals directly into water, never remove the concentrates from the barrel using a drum pump. Dousatron - for eye dousing set ups in production facility. Mentions in this Chat Cockrell Cider - Puyallup, Washington Listen to Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA Contact info for Stormalong Website https://www.stormalong.com/ Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning. Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell. [ Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place? Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels What materials to avoid? Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket. Chrome parts will always chip. Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets What is sanitary? in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected.  Cleaning theory The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels Time Temperature Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub) Chemical concentration In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result Water won't get quite as hot as you like? Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals. Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough.  BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing! Biofilms Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day) A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket Mentions in this Chat Listen to Season 1 recording with Stormalong - 36 Shannon Edgar and Ben Roberts-Sano | Stormalong Cider, MA Contact info for Stormalong Website https://www.stormalong.com/ Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

Make Cider at home! It is fun and easy to do! In this episode on How-to Make cider: Benefits to you when you make cider at home Where to get your juice, what kind of juice and "what if you have an apple tree in your yard?" Basic equipment needed to make a gallon to 5 gallons of cider. The process for both a "controlled" cider and a wild ferment. How to clean your equipment Equipment and Juice By buying your equipment via the links provided, you provide a monetary kick back to Cider Chat at no extra cost to YOU. Fresh pressed apple juice - try to find a cider mill that has on hand fresh pressed juice! Carboy - A carboy or some sanitized vessel to hold the juice, with enough room for it to ferment and not bubble over. Airlock - The airlock helps release carbon dioxide (CO2) and keep out Oxygen! The 1 piece, S-curved airlock design comes with a stopper. Stoppers and Airlocks buy as one unit Juice Options to Make Cider Pick your own apples and press on site Buy fresh pressed juice from a cider mill Buy a gallon of juice at the grocery story - not top quality, but not a bad start to see if you want to go full in on making cider as a hobby. Books on Making Cider  The Big Book of Cidermaking

Maxim Brecht didn't grow up thinking he wanted to become a cidermaker. Cider in Russia is barely known. Maxim says, "People think of cider as being very acetic and dry." Maxim Brecht His path towards cider began when he saw the surplus of apples in the country. He had heard the word cider and thus started researching online, which led him to taking a cidermaking course in England, by Peter Mitchell. His time in England made him a fan of English ciders. Today, he is planting orchards and making three kinds of ciders under his name Maxim Brecht, which looks like Максим Брехт, in the Russian alphabet. Maxim's Traditional Méthode Champenoise, (6.0%) was delicious! A perfect representation of what cider can bring to a table! I wanted to drink the whole bottle, but my better self said, "Share this one of a kind with other cider fans." I saved a 1/3 of the bottle and a reluctantly, but happily passed it on." Maxim also makes a Still Ice Cider and Sparkling Ice Cider. I did have a bottle of his Still Ice Cider too. Though it wasn't as remarkable as the Traditional, it was still quaffable. Note in this episode we talk a bit about climate change affects on apples world wide and in Russia. A big tip of the glass to Maxim for organizing the 4 Part Series featuring Russian makers. He can be heard on all 4 episodes acting as translator. We met at Cidrexpo 2020 held in Normandy, France on February 14th. Contact info for Maxim Brecht Website: https://ciderbrekht.typeform.com/to/MVR1RA Instagram: @cider.brekht Listen to Part 1 - 3 on Russian Makers 232: Russia Cider Party Starts Now! | Part 1 233: Oh My God Russian Cider! | Part 2 234: Russian's Knightberg Cider | Saint Petersburg (Part 3) Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

Elena V. Tyukina is the Brewmaster and co-owner along with her husband of Knightberg Brewery in Saint Petersburg, Russia. Located in the historical district of this premier European city of distinction, is not small task. Think small road ways and antiquated systems that need to be revved up to meet the modern demand of brewing and fermenting. Fermenters world wide are not afraid of doing the impossible and Knightberg is a classic example of this fact.  For instance, Knightberg was the first brewery in Russia to brew an India Pale Ale (IPA) and now producing cider! Elena V. Tyukina Having studied how cider was made in other countries Elena started making cider in 2014 at the brewery. local apples Want to make ciders in a Russian style The 2017 Force of Gravity, a brut cider aged in oak 4.5%, won a Silver Medal at the 2019 Great Lakes International Cider and Perry Competition.  This cider was aged for 9 months, which meant she had to hide the barrels in the back so that her brew team would not try to sell it before it was ready. Elena likes dry cider with a bit of sparkle (bubbles) and this cider fit the ticket. Expect more quality ciders from the dynamic team at Knightberg. Knightberg's Classic Dry Cider label Contact Knightberg Brewery Website: http://www.knightberg.ru/ Mentions in this Chat Seattle Cider Summit to Go Tasting Kits! - order by August 30, 2020 075 Alan Shapiro Cider Summit Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

OMG and the story of two sommeliers! Meet Olga and Micheal Efremov are Russian Sommeliers with two cider brands, OMG and Incider. Michael and Olga Efremov They are based outside of Moscow in a small town, but close enough to work with restaurants in the city. Micheal is the cidermaker and Olga, the educator, leading tasting workshops. During this chat recorded in February of 2020 at Cidrexpo, Olga discussed the apple variety known as "Antonovka". She says it is difficult to make a single varietal cider from this apple because of the lack of aromas. Antonovka is used widely in the US as a rootstock for growing other apple varieties because Antonovka is so vigorous. Labels from OMG and Incider. Note the first label features a painting from Giuseppe Arcimboldo. Listen to a special episode on Cider Chat featuring the era of the Mannerist painters and the current Omni Era of Cider. Get on Cider Chat! Audio Snapshots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to ria@ciderchat.com Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com Mentioned on this Chat Ross on Wye Cider and Perry Company Audio Snapshot Little Pomona - in last week's episode 232 shared an Audio Snapshot. Here is an update on the varieties of quince they have planted! Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube

Russia is having a party and cider is invited! The first ever Cider Party was held in Moscow this July and over 200 people attended dancing into the night and drinking cider! This episode 232 is Part 1 of a 4 part series featuring 4 makers whom I had a chance to sit down and have a chat with while I was attending Cidrexpo in February of 2020. This episode introduces Alina Lotkeva, whom helped produce the first ever Cider Party. She calls herself a cider enthusiast, but she also has high hopes for producing a cider and picked the brand name "Ugly Cake Cider". Alina Lotkeva Follow Alina and her cider adventures on Instagram: I love Cider Cider Party photos! Get on Cider Chat! Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to ria@ciderchat.com Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com Mentioned on this Chat 216: Alex Ionov | Rebel Cider, Moscow Patron Robert Tinnell - Movie short for Hawk and Knob Mead and Cider Little Pomona - sent in an Audio Snap Shot Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube  

The Big Book of Cidermaking authors Christopher Shockey and Kristen K. Shockey are this episode's featured guest! The book will be released on September 1, 2020. Go to http://ferment.works/ to pre-order you copy today! Moved to Applegate, Oregon in 1998 and found apple trees on their property and began fermenting cider. They also began fermenting vegetables. Soon they were writing about the skill of fermenting and writing books! Fermented Vegetables Fiery Ferments Miso, Tempeh, Natto & Other Tasty Ferments: A Step-by-Step Guide to Fermenting Grains and Beans In 2020, their newest book, The Big Book of Cidermaking was published . In this chat we discuss, What the Shockey's home smell like with so many ferments. How a married couple co-write a book Choosing your adventure in cidermaking Making Cider Equipment needed from the basic set up to advance cidermaking Wild Cider Cultivated Ciders The Shockey's wrote this book to encourage makers to find their adventure in cidermaking. Christopher and Kristen Shockey Get on Cider Chat! Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to ria@ciderchat.com Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com Mentioned on this Chat Cider Con 2021 February 2-5, 2021 in Chicago Cidrexpo 2021 February 6-8, 2021 Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube  

Ciderville Updates & Coming Attractions is a mini episode beginning with info on the England Cider Tour scheduled for September 1-6, 2020. I also discuss Totally Cider Tours that I will be look forwarding to once we get by coronavirus. Next up is an Audio Snap Shop from Denmark listener, Sune! Find out about the October 10, 2020 cider fest for this country. Coming Attractions features a reading by author Christopher Shockey. He and Kristen Shockey co-wrote the Big Book of Cidermaking which will be released on September 1, 2020. Subscribe to this podcast today, to listen to the full chat on episode 231, which will be released on July 22nd. Get on Cider Chat! Audio Snap Shots from Ciderville - are you in the cider trade? Please send along an audio snap shot (2mins or less) with news from your special spot in Ciderville. Cider soon to be released, orchard news, Tasting Room hours - let us hear your good news! Send your snap shot to ria@ciderchat.com Have a story to tell for the "Stories in Ciderville" segment? Must be 3000 words or less or under 4 audio minutes Apples and pommes must be integrated into the story line Send your essay and a recording of yourself reading your essay to ria@ciderchat.com Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving! Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts. Listen also at iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher (for Android), iHeartRadio , Spotify and wherever you love to listen to podcasts. Follow on Cider Chat's blog, social media and podcast Twitter @ciderchat Instagram: @ciderchatciderville Cider Chat FaceBook Page Cider Chat YouTube