
Elixir Wizards
Elixir Wizards is an interview-style podcast for anyone interested in functional programming and the Elixir Programming Language. Hosted by SmartLogic engineers and Elixirists Owen Bickford, Dan Ivovich, and Sundi Myint, this show features in-depth discussions with some of the brightest minds in the industry, discussing training and documentation in Phoenix LiveView, the evolution of programming languages, Erlang VM, and more.
In the current season, we're branching out from Elixir to compare notes with thought leaders and software engineers from programming languages like JavaScript, Ruby on Rails, Go, Scala, Java, and more. Each episode will take a deep dive into a topic from Machine Learning and AI, to ECS and game development, to education and community.
Learn more about how SmartLogic uses Phoenix and Elixir. (https://smartlogic.io/phoenix-and-elixir?utm_source=podcast)
Latest episodes

May 11, 2023 • 44min
José Valim on the Future of the Elixir Ecosystem
Today on Elixir Wizards, José Valim, creator of the Elixir programming language, joins hosts Sundi Myint and Owen Bickford to discuss the future of Elixir, upcoming features, changes to the language and ecosystem, and the potential for a type system.
José discusses how Elixir’s extensibility allows the ecosystem to grow with new tools and libraries, all while requiring few languages to the core language.
Key Takeaways:
The origin of the famous rainbow heart combo
José’s hands-off approach to planning the ecosystem which allows community contribution without reliance on the core team
The success and growth of the Elixir community
Lessons learned in the first ten years of the language
The evolution of Elixir's documentation and the role of Livebook in creating more interactive and engaging learning experiences
The potential for Elixir Nx to make numerical computation, machine learning, and data science more accessible to Elixir developers
Potential implementation of a gradual type system and the importance of backwards compatibility
The role of the Elixir community in shaping the language's development and ecosystem, including the importance of open-source contributions
Whether we’ll see Elixir 2.0 in the next decade
Links mentioned in this episode:
Josė Valim Keynote ElixirConf EU Bringing Elixir to Life
Dashbit - https://dashbit.co/
Elixir programming language: https://elixir-lang.org/
ElixirConf: https://elixirconf.com/
ElixirForum: https://elixirforum.com/
Elixir's Logger library: https://hexdocs.pm/logger/Logger.html
José's Twitter: https://twitter.com/josevalim
ElixirLS (Elixir Language Server) https://github.com/elixir-lsp/elixir-ls
Mermaid Charts in Livebook - https://news.livebook.dev/date/2022/1
IEx - https://hexdocs.pm/iex/1.14/IEx.html
Numerical Elixir - Nx: https://hexdocs.pm/nx/getting-started.html
Nerves: https://hexdocs.pm/nerves/getting-started.html
Membrane: https://hexdocs.pm/membrane/getting-started.html
Dialyxir: https://hexdocs.pm/dialyxir/readme.html
LiveBook: https://hexdocs.pm/livebook/getting-started.html
Bumblebee: https://github.com/elixir-nx/bumblebeeSpecial Guest: José Valim.

May 4, 2023 • 46min
Saša Jurić on The Future of Training & Education in Elixir
Today on Elixir Wizards, Sundi Myint and Owen Bickford are joined by Saša Jurić, distinguished developer, mentor, and author of Elixir in Action. They discuss the future of training and education in Elixir, challenges faced by new Elixir developers, Phoenix generators, peer mentorship, the emergence of types, and when it’s time to close the umbrella.
Key Takeaways:
The functional programming paradigm, the actor model, and concurrency
Adapting to the Elixir syntax and tooling
The role of community, mentorship, and continuous learning in Elixir education
The pros and cons of Phoenix generators for Elixir development
Customizing templates in the Phoenix priv directory to better suit individual needs
The importance of understanding and adapting generated code for maintainability and proper abstractions
Importance of having a clear separation between core and interface
Adapting to different opinions and preferences within a development team
Refactoring and restructuring code to improve quality and reduce complexity
Static typing for better documentation and the limitations of dynamic code
Umbrella apps vs. mix configuration and how to avoid complexity
Links Mentioned in this Episode:
Enter to win a copy of Elixir in Action: https://smr.tl/2023bookgiveaway
Elixir in Action by Saša Jurić https://www.manning.com/books/elixir-in-action
35% discount code for book on manning.com: podexwizards20
Saša’s Website/Blog TheErlangelist.com
Towards Maintainable Elixir - Saša Jurić's Medium Blog Article Series
Boundary: Managing cross-module dependencies in Elixir projects
Site Encrypt: Integrated Certification via Let's Encrypt for Elixir-powered sites
Authentication Generator in Phoenix: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/mix_phx_gen_auth.html
Ecto query generator for Elixir https://hexdocs.pm/ecto/Ecto.html
GraphQL: Query language for APIs https://graphql.org/
Dialyxir: https://hexdocs.pm/dialyxir/readme.html
Nx (Numerical Elixir) GitHub Repository: https://github.com/elixir-nx/nx
ElixirLS (Elixir Language Server) GitHub Repository: https://github.com/elixir-lsp/elixir-lsSpecial Guest: Saša Jurić.

5 snips
Apr 27, 2023 • 48min
Mat Trudel on the Future of Phoenix and Web Transports
In this episode of Elixir Wizards, Owen and Dan talk to Mat Trudel, Phoenix contributor and creator of the Bandit Web Server, about the future of Phoenix, web transports, and HTTP/3. Mat explains the challenges and benefits of implementing HTTP/3 support in Phoenix.
Mat provides in-depth insights into the evolution of web protocols and encourages developers to continue pushing the boundaries of web development and to contribute to the growth of the open-source community.
Main topics discussed in this episode:
The evolution of web protocols and how HTTP/3 is changing the landscape
The challenges and benefits of implementing HTTP/3 support in Phoenix
How a home AC project revealed a gap in web server testing tools and inspired Bandit
how web transports like Cowboy and Ranch are used to build scalable web servers
WebSock for multiplexing data over a single WebSocket connection
Mat’s philosophy on naming projects and his passion for malapropisms
The Bandit project and how it can help developers better understand web protocols
Autobahn, a testing suite for WebSocket protocol specification conformance
The importance of community involvement in open-source projects
Encouragement for more people to use Bandit and report bugs
Links Mentioned:
SmartLogic is Hiring: https://smartlogic.io/about/jobs
PagerDuty: https://www.pagerduty.com
Phoenix Framework: https://www.phoenixframework.org/
Cowboy: https://ninenines.eu/docs/en/cowboy/2.9/guide/introduction/
Ranch: https://github.com/ninenines/ranch
Bandit - https://hexdocs.pm/bandit/Bandit.html
Autobahn: https://github.com/crossbario/autobahn-testsuite
HTTP Cats: https://http.cat/
Mat Trudel at Empex 2022 A Funny Thing Happened On The Way To The Phoenix
Thousand Island - https://hexdocs.pm/thousand_island/ThousandIsland.htmlSpecial Guest: Mat Trudel.

Apr 20, 2023 • 43min
Mike Waud and Tony Winn on the Future of Elixir on the Grid
Elixir Wizards Owen Bickford and Dan Ivovich are joined by Mike Waud, Senior Software Engineer at SparkMeter, and Tony Winn, Lead Software Architect at Generac, to discuss the future of the BEAM in the electric grid, how their companies use Elixir, and the challenges they face in implementing cutting-edge technologies in an environment with a mix of old and new systems.
Both guests have backgrounds in various programming languages before turning to Elixir for its functional programming capabilities, concurrency, and reliability. Elixir's portability allows it to be used in various environments, from cloud-based systems to more conservative organizations that prefer running software off the cloud.
Key topics discussed in this episode:
• Technology sophistication varies across different regions and industries
• BEAM's reliability, concurrency, and scaling in electric grid systems
• Using Elixir for caching, telemetry, and managing traffic spikes
• Elixir fits well for devices due to its fault tolerance and supervision trees
• Observability with telemetry hooks for understanding system performance
• Traffic patterns in the grid space are often dictated by weather and human activity, requiring efficient handling
• The balance between using Elixir/BEAM and other tools depending on use case
• Using Elixir tools like Broadway to work with event queues and Nebulex for distributed caching
• The future of the electric grid and its evolution over the next 10 years, including a shift towards more distributed energy generation
• Global lessons about grid management, solar penetration, regulations, and energy storage
• Prioritizing data in IoT systems and processing data at the edge of the network
• Gratitude for open-source contributors in the Elixir community
Links in this episode:
SparkMeter: https://www.sparkmeter.io/
Generac: https://www.generac.com/
SmartLogic - https://smartlogic.io/jobs
Gary Bernhardt's talk on functional core and imperative shell: https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/boundaries
Joe Armstrong's Erlang book: https://pragprog.com/titles/jaerlang/programming-erlang/
The Nerves podcast and documentation: https://nerves-project.org/Special Guests: Mike Waud and Tony Winn.

Apr 13, 2023 • 51min
Sophie DeBenedetto on the Future of Elixir and LiveView
In today's episode, Sophie DeBenedetto emphasizes the importance of the Elixir community's commitment to education, documentation, and tools like liveBook, fostering an environment where people with varying skill levels can learn and contribute. The discussion highlights LiveView's capabilities and the role it plays in the future of Elixir, encouraging members to share knowledge and excitement for these tools through various channels.
Sophie invites listeners to attend and submit their talks for the upcoming Empex conference, which aims to showcase the best in Elixir and LiveView technologies. Additionally, the group shares light-hearted moments, reminding everyone to contribute to all types of documentation and promoting an inclusive atmosphere.
Key topics discussed in this episode:
• Updates on the latest release of the Programming Phoenix LiveView book
• The importance of community connection in Elixir conferences
• The future of documentation in the Elixir ecosystem
• The Elixir community's commitment to education and documentation
• LiveBook as a valuable tool for learning and experimenting
• Encouraging contributions across experience levels and skill sets
• Importance of sharing knowledge through liveBooks, blog posts, and conference talks
• Core Components in Phoenix LiveView, and modal implementation
• Creating a custom component library for internal use
• Reflecting on a Phoenix LiveView Project Experience
• Ease of using Tailwind CSS and its benefits in web development
• Advantages of LiveView in reducing complexity and speeding up project development
• LiveView's potential to handle large datasets using Streams
• The role of Elixir developers in the rapidly evolving AI landscape
Links in this episode:
Sophie DeBenedetto – https://www.linkedin.com/in/sophiedebenedetto
Programming Phoenix LiveView Book – https://pragprog.com/titles/liveview/programming-phoenix-liveview
Empex NYC - https://www.empex.co/new-york
SmartLogic - https://smartlogic.io/jobs
Phoenix LiveView documentation: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix_live_view/Phoenix.LiveView.html
Live sessions and hooks: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix_live_view/Phoenix.LiveView.Router.html#live_session/1
LiveView: https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix_live_view/Phoenix.LiveView.html
Tailwind CSS: https://tailwindcss.com/
Reuse Markup With Function Components and Slots
LiveView Card Components With Bootstrap
Building a Chat App With LiveView Streams Special Guest: Sophie DeBenedetto.

Apr 6, 2023 • 41min
Michael Lubas on the Future of Elixir Security
In today's episode of Elixir Wizards, Michael Lubas, founder of Paraxial.io, joins hosts Owen Bickford and Bilal Hankins to discuss security in the Elixir and Phoenix ecosystem. Lubas shares his insights on the most common security risks developers face, recent threats, and how Elixir developers can prepare for the future.
Common security risks, including SQL injection and cross-site scripting, and how to mitigate these threats
The importance of rate limiting and bot detection to prevent spam SMS messages
Continuous security testing to maintain a secure application and avoid breaches
Tools and resources available in the Elixir and Phoenix ecosystem to enhance security
The Guardian library for authentication and authorization
Take a drink every time someone says "bot"
The difference between "bots" and AI language models
The potential for evolving authentication, such as Passkeys over WebSocket
How Elixir compares to other languages due to its immutability and the ability to trace user input
Potion Shop, a vulnerable Phoenix application designed to test security
Talking Tom, Sneaker Bots, and teenage hackers!
The importance of security awareness and early planning in application development
The impact of open-source software on application security
How to address vulnerabilities in third-party libraries
Conducting security audits and implementing security measures
Links in this episode:
Michael Lubas
Email - michael@paraxial.io
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaellubas/
Paraxial.io - https://paraxial.io/
Blog/Mailing List - https://paraxial.io/blog/index
Potion Shop - https://paraxial.io/blog/potion-shop
Elixir/Phoenix Security Live Coding: Preventing SQL Injection in Ecto
Twitter - https://twitter.com/paraxialio
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/company/paraxial-io/
GenServer Social - https://genserver.social/paraxial
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@paraxial5874
Griffin Byatt on Sobelow: ElixirConf 2017 - Plugging the Security Holes in Your Phoenix Application
Erlang Ecosystem Foundation: Security Working Group - https://erlef.org/wg/security
Article by Bram - Client-Side Enforcement of LiveView SecuritySpecial Guest: Michael Lubas.

Mar 30, 2023 • 46min
Cory O'Daniel and the Future of DevOps in Elixir Programming
In this episode of Elixir Wizards, Cory O'Daniel, CEO of Massdriver, talks with Sundi and Owen about the role of DevOps in the future of Elixir programming. They discuss the advantages of using Elixir for cloud infrastructure and the challenges of securing cloud systems. They elaborate on their hopes for the future, including processes and automation to streamline operations so programmers can spend more time doing what they love … writing software!
Major topics of discussion in the episode:
Cory’s ideal ratio of hot sauce to honey (recommended for chicken)
Why this episode was renamed “how Cory almost killed his dad."
The history of deployment with Elixir and Erlang
The benefits of using Kubernetes to deploy Elixir applications
The future of Elixir DevOps and Massdriver's role in solving related problems
Benefits of reducing the operational burden for developers
Whether Elixir is a good fit for Kubernetes
How DevOps has changed over the last 10 years.
The confusion about what DevOps actually means
The idea of "engineers doing everything" is not sustainable
A future where engineers don't need to know much about DevOps, and can focus on writing code
Minimizing the operational burden for developers
Monolithic application vs. microservices
Why Massdriver does not use Webhooks to update configurations
Security, access to source code, and potential source leaks
The idea of multi-cloud, site-wide outage, and cloud agnosticism
Hybrid cloud vs true multi-cloud
Standardizing methods of packaging and deploying applications in the future
Links mentioned in this episode:
SmartLogic — https://smartlogic.io/
SmartLogic Twitter — https://twitter.com/smartlogic
Massdriver — https://www.massdriver.cloud/
State of Production Survey (with Sweet Raffle Prizes) — https://blog.massdriver.cloud/surveys/state-of-production-2023/
$5000 Massdriver Credit — https://www.massdriver.cloud/partners/elixir-wizards
Elephant in the Cloud Blog Post — https://startups.microsoft.com/blog/elephant-in-the-cloud/
RIAK — https://github.com/basho/riak
Otel — https://hexdocs.pm/
Terraform — https://hexdocs.pm/terraform/Terraform.html
DigitalOcean — https://www.digitalocean.com/
Heroku — https://www.heroku.com/
Linode — https://www.linode.com/
Docker — https://www.docker.com/
Kubernetes — https://kubernetes.io/
Webhooks — https://hexdocs.pm/elixir_plaid/webhooks.html
GitOps — https://hexdocs.pm/git_ops/readme.html
Helm — https://helm.sh/docs/Special Guest: Cory O'Daniel.

Mar 23, 2023 • 42min
Season 10 Kickoff: The Hosts Discuss The Future of Elixir
It’s the season 10 premiere of the Elixir Wizards podcast! Sundi Myint, Owen Bickford, and Dan Ivovich kick off the season with a spirited conversation about what they hope to see in the future of the Elixir programming language, experiences that inform their predictions, and excitement for this season’s lineup of guests.
They touch on how Elixir has evolved in the previous ten years and how the range of use cases has expanded beyond web development.
The hosts introduce the season 10 theme: The Next Ten Years of Elixir
Dan explains his initial hesitation and how he was ultimately won over by the language
Owen talks about functional programming and why Elixir piqued his interest
Sundi compares Elixir to other languages she’s worked with and why she thinks it’s more intuitive and readable
Sundi talks about her recent experience using Flutter for mobile application development
The hosts express excitement about the various ways Elixir is currently being used and its potential for growth
The Wizards express interest in hearing from guests this season to gain more perspective
They discuss Phoenix, LiveView, documentation, Flutter, Dart, and resources available to the Elixir community, and the benefits of being fluent in different programming languages
Owen suggests that Elixir and Phoenix are optimal for projects with limited resources and leaner teams
They highlight the importance of building resource-efficient apps that work well on low-powered devices
Dan expresses his desire to embrace types more but acknowledges that a first-party typing system is unlikely
The speakers discuss how Elixir has made complex tasks more accessible through features like LiveView, Phoenix Presence, WebSockets, Pub/Sub, Nerves, and ML libraries
They express excitement about the possibilities for the future of Elixir
Links mentioned in this episode:
SmartLogic — https://smartlogic.io/
SmartLogic Twitter — https://twitter.com/smartlogic
Axon – https://hexdocs.pm/axon/Axon.html
Bumblebee – https://hex.pm/packages/bumblebee
HEEx – https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix_live_view/assigns-eex.html
Phoenix LiveView – https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix_live_view/Phoenix.LiveView.html
Numerical Elixir – https://hexdocs.pm/nx/intro-to-nx.html
Hugging Face – https://huggingface.co/docs
Flutter – https://docs.flutter.dev/
Dart – https://dart.dev/
Broadway – https://hexdocs.pm/broadway/Broadway.html
Phoenix Presence – https://hexdocs.pm/phoenix/Phoenix.Presence.html
Nerves – https://hexdocs.pm/nerves/getting-started.html
WebSocket – https://hexdocs.pm/web_socket/readme.html

Dec 29, 2022 • 37min
That's a Wrap: Season 9 Finale with Sundi, Bilal, Owen & Dan!
Elixir Wizards Season 9 is coming to an end! In the season finale, hosts Sundi, Bilal, Owen, and Dan reflect on the guests and highlights that made this season unforgettable. We thank you for joining us as we parsed the particulars and can't wait to reconnect next season for more insightful conversations!
*Please remember to take our LISTENER SURVEY so we can come back bigger and better for Season 10 – Coming in early 2023!! *
SmartLogic — https://smartlogic.io/
SmartLogic Twitter — https://twitter.com/smartlogic

Dec 22, 2022 • 44min
Marcelo Dominguez on Command and Query Responsibility Segregation
Today on Elixir Wizards, Marcelo Dominguez, co-founder at Mimiquate, joins us to parse the particulars of command query responsibility segregation (CQRS). Mimiquate is a specialized team of developers providing solutions for their clients with Elixir, Ruby on Rails, and Ember. Tune in to learn the benefits and potential applications of CQRS.
*Please remember to take our LISTENER SURVEY so we can come back bigger and better for Season 10 – Coming in early 2023!! *
The Wizards catch up with Marcelo and hear about ElixirConf Uruguay and Advent of Code 2022
Marcelo and the hosts run through their experience with CQRS and event sourcing
The definition of CQRS
What is the elevator pitch for CQRS
Marcelo distinguishes between database writes and reads
What are some limitations of the CRUD pattern
How to know whether your application will benefit from the CQRS pattern
What tools are in the Elixir ecosystem for implementing CQRS
How to quickly recover from outages within a mature CQRS application
How multi-node distribution impact CQRS architecture
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Eventsourcing and CQRS in Elixir
CQRS Pattern (Microsoft)
Commanded (Hex Docs)
Advent of Code
Marcelo’s Advent of Code Gist for Day 1
Marcelo Dominguez on LinkedIn — https://uy.linkedin.com/in/marpo60
Marcelo Dominguez on Twitter — https://twitter.com/marpo60
Marcelo Dominguez on GitHub – https://github.com/marpo60
Mimiquate – https://www.mimiquate.com/
SmartLogic — https://smartlogic.io/
SmartLogic Twitter — https://twitter.com/smartlogic
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