
Elixir Wizards
Elixir Wizards is an interview-style podcast for anyone interested in functional programming and the Elixir Programming Language. Hosted by SmartLogic engineers and Elixirists Owen Bickford, Dan Ivovich, and Sundi Myint, this show features in-depth discussions with some of the brightest minds in the industry, discussing training and documentation in Phoenix LiveView, the evolution of programming languages, Erlang VM, and more.
In the current season, we're branching out from Elixir to compare notes with thought leaders and software engineers from programming languages like JavaScript, Ruby on Rails, Go, Scala, Java, and more. Each episode will take a deep dive into a topic from Machine Learning and AI, to ECS and game development, to education and community.
Learn more about how SmartLogic uses Phoenix and Elixir. (https://smartlogic.io/phoenix-and-elixir?utm_source=podcast)
Latest episodes

Apr 4, 2024 • 44min
"You've Got a Job to Do" with Joel Meador
SmartLogic Engineer Joel Meador joins the podcast to discuss the vital role of background jobs in app performance, optimizing user experience, monitoring and debugging strategies, system security, and tools like Oban and Sidekiq. They emphasize best practices for implementing background jobs, CPU utilization, and continuous improvement in job management.

Mar 28, 2024 • 43min
"Discovery Discoveries" with Alicia Brindisi and Bri LaVorgna
In Elixir Wizards Office Hours Episode 2, "Discovery Discoveries," SmartLogic's Project Manager Alicia Brindisi and VP of Delivery Bri LaVorgna join Elixir Wizards Sundi Myint and Owen Bickford on an exploratory journey through the discovery phase of the software development lifecycle.
This episode highlights how collaboration and communication transform the client-project team dynamic into a customized expedition. The goal of discovery is to reveal clear business goals, understand the end user, pinpoint key project objectives, and meticulously document the path forward in a Product Requirements Document (PRD).
The discussion emphasizes the importance of fostering transparency, trust, and open communication. Through a mutual exchange of ideas, we are able to create the most tailored, efficient solutions that meet the client's current goals and their vision for the future.
Key topics discussed in this episode:
Mastering the art of tailored, collaborative discovery
Navigating business landscapes and user experiences with empathy
Sculpting project objectives and architectural blueprints
Continuously capturing discoveries and refining documentation
Striking the perfect balance between flexibility and structured processes
Steering clear of scope creep while managing expectations
Tapping into collective wisdom for ongoing discovery
Building and sustaining a foundation of trust and transparency
Links mentioned in this episode:
https://smartlogic.io/
Follow SmartLogic on social media: https://twitter.com/smartlogic
Contact Bri: bri@smartlogic.io
What is a PRD? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_requirements_documentSpecial Guests: Alicia Brindisi and Bri LaVorgna.

Mar 21, 2024 • 46min
"Testing 1, 2, 3" with Joel Meador and Charles Suggs
The Elixir Wizards Podcast is back with Season 12 Office Hours, where we talk with the internal SmartLogic team about the stages of the software development lifecycle. For the season premiere, "Testing 1, 2, 3," Joel Meador and Charles Suggs join us to discuss the nuances of software testing.
In this episode, we discuss everything from testing philosophies to test driven development (TDD), integration, and end-user testing. Our guests share real-world experiences that highlight the benefits of thorough testing, challenges like test maintenance, and problem-solving for complex production environments.
Key topics discussed in this episode:
How to find a balance that's cost-effective and practical while testing
Balancing test coverage and development speed
The importance of clear test plans and goals
So many tests: Unit testing, integration testing, acceptance testing, penetration testing, automated vs. manual testing
Agile vs. Waterfall methodologies
Writing readable and maintainable tests
Testing edge cases and unexpected scenarios
Testing as a form of documentation and communication
Advice for developers looking to improve testing practices
Continuous integration and deployment
Links mentioned:
https://smartlogic.io/
Watch this episode on YouTube! youtu.be/u_nx5AIvSdc
Bob Martin “Clean Code” videos - “Uncle Bob”: http://cleancoder.com/
JUnit 5 Testing for Java and the JVM https://junit.org/junit5/
ExUnit Testing for Elixir https://hexdocs.pm/ex_unit/ExUnit.html
Code-Level Testing of Smalltalk Applications https://www.cs.ubc.ca/~murphy/st_workshop/28-7.html
Agile Manifesto https://agilemanifesto.org/
Old Man Yells at Cloud https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old.jpg
TDD: Test Driven Development https://www.agilealliance.org/glossary/tdd/
Perl Programming Language https://www.perl.org/
Protractor Test Framework for Angular and AngularJS protractortest.org/#/
Waterfall Project Management https://business.adobe.com/blog/basics/waterfall
CodeSync Leveling up at Bleacher Report A cautionary tale - PETER HASTIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4SzZCwB8B4
Mix ecto.dump https://hexdocs.pm/ecto_sql/Mix.Tasks.Ecto.Dump.html
Apache JMeter Load Testing in Java https://jmeter.apache.org/
Pentest Tools Collection - Penetration Testing https://github.com/arch3rPro/PentestTools
The Road to 2 Million Websocket Connections in Phoenix https://www.phoenixframework.org/blog/the-road-to-2-million-websocket-connections
Donate to Miami Indians of Indiana https://www.miamiindians.org/take-action
Joel Meador on Tumblr https://joelmeador.tumblr.com/Special Guests: Charles Suggs and Joel Meador.

Jan 11, 2024 • 1h 9min
Creating a Language: Elixir vs. Roc with José Valim and Richard Feldman (Elixir Wizards X Software Unscripted Podcast)
For the final episode of Elixir Wizards’ Season 11 “Branching Out from Elixir,” we’re featuring a recent discussion from the Software Unscripted podcast. In this conversation, José Valim, creator of Elixir, interviews Richard Feldman, creator of Roc. They compare notes on the process and considerations for creating a language.
This episode covers the origins of creating a language, its influences, and how goals shape the tradeoffs in programming language design. José and Richard share anecdotes from their experiences guiding the evolution of Elixir and Roc. The discussion provides an insightful look at the experimentation and learning involved in crafting new languages.
Topics discussed in this episode
What inspires the creation of a new programming language
Goals and use cases for a programming language
Influences from Elm, Rust, Haskell, Go, OCaml, and more
Tradeoffs involved in expressiveness of type systems
Opportunistic mutation for performance gains in a functional language
Minimum version selection for dependency resolution
Build time considerations with type checking and monomorphization
Design experiments and rolling back features that don’t work out
History from the first simple interpreter to today's real programming language
Design considerations around package management and versioning
Participation in Advent of Code to gain new users and feedback
Providing performance optimization tools to users in the future
Tradeoffs involved in picking integer types and arithmetic
Comparing floats and equality checks on dictionaries
Using abilities to customize equality for custom types
Ensuring availability of multiple package versions for incremental upgrades
Treating major version bumps as separate artifacts
Roc's focus on single-threaded performance
Links mentioned in this episode
Software Unscripted Podcast https://feeds.resonaterecordings.com/software-unscripted
Roc Programming Language https://www.roc-lang.org/
Roc Lang on Github https://github.com/roc-lang/roc
Elm Programming Language https://elm-lang.org/
Elm in Action by Richard Feldman https://www.manning.com/books/elm-in-action
Richard Feldman on Github https://github.com/rtfeldman
Lua Programming Language https://www.lua.org/
Vimscript Guide https://google.github.io/styleguide/vimscriptfull.xml
OCaml Programming Language https://ocaml.org/
Advent of Code https://adventofcode.com/
Roc Language on Twitter https://twitter.com/roc_lang
Richard Feldman on Twitter https://twitter.com/rtfeldman
Roc Zulip Chat https://roc.zulipchat.com
Clojure Programming Language https://clojure.org/
Talk: Persistent Data Structures and Managed References by Rich Hickey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toD45DtVCFM
Koka Programming Language https://koka-lang.github.io/koka/doc/index.html
Flix Programming Language https://flix.dev/
Clojure Transients https://clojure.org/reference/transients
Haskell Software Transactional Memory https://wiki.haskell.org/Software_transactional_memory
Rust Traits https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch10-02-traits.html
CoffeeScript https://coffeescript.org/
Cargo Package Management https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch01-03-hello-cargo.html
Versioning in Golang https://research.swtch.com/vgo-principlesSpecial Guests: José Valim and Richard Feldman.

Jan 4, 2024 • 54min
Package Management in Elixir vs. JavaScript with Wojtek Mach & Amal Hussein
Today on Elixir Wizards, Wojtek Mach of HexPM and Amal Hussein, engineering leader and former NPM team member, join Owen Bickford to compare notes on package management in Elixir vs. JavaScript. This lively conversation covers everything from best practices for dependency management to API design, SemVer (semantic versioning), and the dark ages of web development before package managers existed.
The guests debate philosophical differences between the JavaScript and Elixir communities. They highlight the JavaScript ecosystem's maturity and identify potential areas of improvement, contrasted against Elixir’s emphasis on minimal dependencies. Both guests encourage engineers to publish packages, even small ones, as a learning opportunity.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Leveraging community packages rather than reinventing the wheel
Vetting packages carefully before adopting them as dependencies
Evaluating security, performance, and bundle size when assessing packages
Managing transitive dependencies pulled in by packages
Why semantic versioning is difficult to consistently enforce
Designing APIs with extensibility and backward compatibility in mind
Using tools like deprecations to avoid breaking changes in new releases
JavaScript’s preference for code reuse over minimization
The Elixir community’s minimal dependencies and avoidance of tech debt
Challenges in early package management, such as global dependency
Learning from tools like Ruby Gems and Bundler to improve experience
How log files provide visibility into dependency management actions
How lock files pin dependency versions for consistency
Publishing packages democratizes access and provides learning opportunities
Linting to enforce standards and prevent certain bugs
Primitive-focused packages provide flexibility over highly opinionated ones
Suggestions for improving documentation and guides
Benefits of collaboration between programming language communities
Links mentioned in this episode:
Node.js https://github.com/nodejs
npm JavaScript Package Manager https://github.com/npm
JS Party Podcast https://changelog.com/jsparty
Dashbit https://dashbit.co/
HexPM Package Manager for Erlang https://hex.pm/
HTTP Client for Elixir https://github.com/wojtekmach/req
Ecto Database-Wrapper for Elixir https://github.com/elixir-ecto (Not an ORM)
XState Actor-Based State Management for JavaScript https://xstate.js.org/docs/
Supply Chain Protection for JavaScript, Python, and Go https://socket.dev/
MixAudit https://github.com/mirego/mix_audit
NimbleTOTP Library for 2FA https://hexdocs.pm/nimble_totp/NimbleTOTP.html
Microsoft Azure https://github.com/Azure
Patch Package https://www.npmjs.com/package/patch-package
Ruby Bundler to manage Gem dependencies https://github.com/rubygems/bundler
npm-shrinkwrap https://docs.npmjs.com/cli/v10/commands/npm-shrinkwrap
SemVer Semantic Versioner for NPM https://www.npmjs.com/package/semver
Spec-ulation Keynote - Rich Hickey https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyLBGkS5ICk
Amal’s favorite Linter https://eslint.org/
Elixir Mint Functional HTTP Client for Elixir https://github.com/elixir-mint
Tailwind Open Source CSS Framework https://tailwindcss.com/
WebauthnComponents https://hex.pm/packages/webauthn_componentsSpecial Guests: Amal Hussein and Wojtek Mach.

Dec 28, 2023 • 48min
Communities in Tech with Camille Clayton & Scott Tolinski
Today on Elixir Wizards, Camille Clayton, Director of Women Who Code DC, and Scott Tolinski, Co-Host of the Syntax Podcast and Creator of Level Up Tutorials, join hosts Sundi Myint and Owen Bickford to discuss tech community spaces online and IRL.
They lay out the blueprint and best practices for fostering an inclusive environment where newcomers feel comfortable and welcome to join the discussion – whether it’s an online forum, YouTube comment sections, social media platform, local meetup, or conference.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Leaving a space open so newcomers feel empowered to join
Celebrating small wins to maintain excitement and build confidence
Why consistency is key to building a community with longevity
Creating and enforcing a code of conduct to define expectations
Finding respectful resolutions for addressing issues or complaints
The importance of amplifying underrepresented voices in tech
Creating content for all skill levels and adapting to a wider audience
How remote meetups broaden the possibilities for attendance and connection
Finding the right fit for mentorship
Delegation to strengthen community members’ sense of ownership
Navigating the new normal of local, in-person gatherings post-pandemic
Links mentioned in this episode:
https://www.womenwhocode.com/network/dc
https://syntax.fm/
https://levelup.video/
https://devopsdays.org/
https://github.com/sveltejs
https://github.com/womenwhocodedc
https://twitter.com/womenwhocode
https://www.remoteworkcalc.com/
https://twitter.com/WomenWhoCodeDC
https://www.meetup.com/dc-elixir/Special Guests: Camille Clayton and Scott Tolinski.

Dec 21, 2023 • 48min
Actor Model and Concurrent Processing in Elixir vs. Clojure and Ruby with Xiang Ji & Nathan Hessler
In this episode of Elixir Wizards, Xiang Ji and Nathan Hessler join hosts Sundi Myint and Owen Bickford to compare actor model implementation in Elixir, Ruby, and Clojure.
In Elixir, the actor model is core to how the BEAM VM works, with lightweight processes communicating asynchronously via message passing. GenServers provide a common abstraction for building actors, handling messages, and maintaining internal state. In Ruby, the actor model is represented through Ractors, which currently map to OS threads.
They discuss what we can learn by comparing models, understanding tradeoffs between VMs, languages, and concurrency primitives, and how this knowledge can help us choose the best tools for a project.
Topics discussed in this episode:
Difference between actor model and shared memory concurrency
Isolation of actor state and communication via message passing
BEAM VM design for high concurrency via lightweight processes
GenServers as common abstraction for building stateful actors
GenServer callbacks for message handling and state updates
Agents as similar process abstraction to GenServers
Shared state utilities like ETS for inter-process communication
Global Interpreter Lock in older Ruby VMs
Ractors as initial actor implementation in Ruby mapping to threads
Planned improvements to Ruby concurrency in 3.3
Akka implementation of actor model on JVM using thread scheduling
Limitations of shared memory concurrency on JVM
Project Loom bringing lightweight processes to JVM
Building GenServer behavior in Ruby using metaprogramming
CSP model of communication using channels in Clojure
Differences between BEAM scheduler and thread-based VMs
Comparing Elixir to academic languages like Haskell
Remote and theScore are hiring!
Links mentioned in this episode:
theScore is hiring! https://www.thescore.com/
Remote is also hiring! https://remote.com/
Comparing the Actor Model and CSP with Elixir and Clojure Blog Post by Xiang Ji
Comparing the Actor model & CSP concurrency with Elixir & Clojure Xiang Ji at ElixirConf EU 2022
Clojure Programming Language https://clojure.org/
Akka https://akka.io/
Go Programming Language https://github.com/golang/go
Proto Actor for Golang https://proto.actor/
RabbitMQ Open-Source Message Broker Software https://github.com/rabbitmq
JVM Project Loom https://github.com/openjdk/loom
Ractor for Ruby https://docs.ruby-lang.org/en/master/ractor_md.html
Seven Concurrency Models in Seven Weeks: When Threads Unravel by Paul Butcher
Seven Languages in Seven Weeks by Bruce A. Tate
GenServer https://hexdocs.pm/elixir/1.12/GenServer.html
ets https://www.erlang.org/doc/man/ets.html
Elixir in Action by Saša Jurić
Redis https://github.com/redis/redis
Designing for Scalability with Erlang/OTP by Francesco Cesarini & Steve Vinoski
Discord Blog: Using Rust to Scale Elixir for 11 Million Concurrent Users
Xiang's website https://xiangji.me/
Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy by David D. BurnsSpecial Guests: Nathan Hessler and Xiang Ji.

Dec 14, 2023 • 46min
Static Code Analysis in Elixir vs. Ruby with René Föhring & Marc-André Lafortune
In this episode of Elixir Wizards, hosts Owen and Dan are joined by René Föhring, creator of Credo for Elixir, and Marc-André LaFortune, head maintainer of the RuboCop AST library for Ruby. They compare static code analysis in Ruby versus Elixir.
The conversation explores the intricacies and challenges inherent in static code analysis across object-oriented and functional programming paradigms, highlighting the unique characteristics of both Ruby and Elixir. Key topics of discussion include the ways these tools can enhance coding styles and empower developers, the delicate balance between providing guidance and enforcing rules, and the evolving future of code analysis in these languages.
Topics discussed in this episode:
The differences and applications between static and dynamic analysis
How Credo aims to offer flexible and educational guidance for Elixir developers
The complexities of method identification in Ruby and its impact on static analysis
Challenges posed by macros and dynamic code modification during compilation in Elixir
Reducing false positives in code analysis tools to minimize developer frustration
Promoting uniform coding practices through analysis tools
The significance of using analysis tools with clear, specific objectives
How coding standards can refine and improve coding styles over time
Building analysis tools and checks through an understanding of Abstract Syntax Trees (ASTs)
Potential advancements in the analysis of Phoenix templates and HTML in Elixir
Contrasting approaches to managing code and comments in Elixir and Ruby ASTs
The fine line between providing helpful guidance and imposing stylistic preferences
Heuristics in static analysis highlight inconsistencies without mandating style
The potential for more straightforward pattern matching in ASTs with future updates
The importance of a gradual implementation of tool updates to maintain backward compatibility
Creating tools that support and empower developers, rather than hinder them
How static analysis contributes to cleaner, more maintainable codebases
Potential future developments in the field of static code analysis
Practical applications of using linters like Credo and RuboCop in software development
Links mentioned in this episode:
Credo https://github.com/rrrene/credo
https://hexdocs.pm/credo/overview.html
Dogma: A code style linter for Elixir https://github.com/lpil/dogma
https://github.com/rubocop/rubocop
RuboCop's AST extensions and NodePattern functionality https://github.com/rubocop/rubocop-ast
https://github.com/whitequark/parser
https://hex.pm/packages?search=credo&sort=recent_downloads
https://github.com/doorgan/sourceror
https://github.com/rrrene/credo/blob/master/lib/credo/check/readability/large_numbers.exSpecial Guests: Marc-André Lafortune and René Föhring.

Dec 7, 2023 • 42min
Web Development Frameworks: Elixir and Phoenix vs. Ruby on Rails with Owen Bickford & Dan Ivovich
Elixir Wizards Owen Bickford and Dan Ivovich discuss web development with Elixir and Phoenix vs. Ruby on Rails, comparing history, project structure, programming paradigms, CRUD apps, LiveView vs. Turbolinks, and WebSocket usage. They also touch on testing frameworks and the benefits of knowledge in multiple frameworks.

Nov 30, 2023 • 44min
Garbage Collection in Erlang vs JVM/Akka with Manuel Rubio & Dan Plyukhin
Today on Elixir Wizards, Manuel Rubio, author of Erlang/OTP: A Concurrent World and Dan Plyukhin, creator of the UIGC Actor Garbage Collector for Akka, join host Dan Ivovich to compare notes on garbage collection in actor models.
The discussion digs into the similarities and differences of actor-based garbage collection in Erlang and Akka and introduces Dan's research on how to perform garbage collection in a distributed actor system.
Topics discussed:
Akka is akin to Erlang actors for the JVM using Scala, with similar principles like supervision trees, messages, and clustering
Erlang uses generational garbage collection and periodically copies live data to the old heap for long-lived elements
Actor GC aims to determine when an actor's memory can be reclaimed automatically rather than manually killing actors
Distributed actor GC is more challenging than object GC due to the distributed nature and relationships between actors across nodes
Challenges include reasoning about failures like dropped messages and crashed nodes
GC balance requires optimization of resource release and CPU load management
Immutability helps Erlang GC, but copying data for messages impacts performance
Research into distributed actor GC is still ongoing, with opportunities for improvement
Fault tolerance in Erlang relies on user implementation rather than low-level guarantees
Asynchronous messages in Erlang/Elixir mean references may become invalid which is similar to the distributed GC approaches in Dan's research
Idempotent messaging is recommended to handle possible duplicates from failures
Help your local researcher! Researchers encourage communication from practitioners on challenges and use cases
Links mentioned:
Erlang/OTP Volume 1: A Concurrent World by Manuel Rubio https://altenwald.com/en/book/en-erlang-i
Scala https://www.scala-lang.org/
Akka Framework https://github.com/akka
JVM (Java Virtual Machine) https://www.java.com/en/download/
The BEAM VM https://www.erlang.org/blog/a-brief-beam-primer/
Hadoop Framework https://hadoop.apache.org/
Pony Programming Language https://www.ponylang.io/
SLSA Programming Language https://wcl.cs.rpi.edu/salsa/#:~:text=SALSA%20
Paxos Algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paxos_(computer_science)
Raft library for maintaining a replicated state machine https://github.com/etcd-io/raft
Dan's Website https://dplyukhin.github.io/
Dan Plyukhin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/dplyukhin
Dan Plyukhin’s YouTube channel: https://m.youtube.com/@dplyukhin
UIGC on GitHub https://github.com/dplyukhin/UIGC
Manuel's Website https://altenwald.com/
Manuel Rubio on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MRonErlangSpecial Guests: Dan Plyukhin and Manuel Rubio.
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