3 Point Perspective: The Illustration Podcast

Many people wonder, is it too late? Or, am I too old to start? Will, Lee, and Jake talk about this age old question and discuss how it isn’t too late. There are many successful creatives that didn’t start until they were older. Lee shares his story and how he didn’t start art until later on in life. We talk about ways you can amp up and make the most of your early years if you are starting for the first time, or looking to accelerate your growth later in life. We discuss some of the benefits of age and the need for sacrifice and prioritizing to create a thriving career in art. Links: Svslearn.com, schoolism, CGMA Sang Jun, https://www.sangjunart.com/ Lee White, https://www.leewhiteillustration.com/ Zombies video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZ0K3lWKRc Jon Klassen, http://jonklassen.tumblr.com/ Craig Mullins, http://www.goodbrush.com/ Design 100 Somethings, Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxa01j9Ns7o Uncovering Your Style, SVS, https://courses.svslearn.com/courses/uncovering-your-style Yuko Shimizu, http://yukoart.com/ Jake Parker, http://mrjakeparker.com. Instagram: @jakeparker, Youtube: JakeParker44 Will Terry, http://willterry.com. Instagram: @willterryart, Youtube: WillTerryArt Lee White, http://leewhiteillustration.com. Instagram: @leewhiteillo http://forum.svslearn.com Podcast production and editing by Aaron Dowd. Show notes by Tanner Garlick. Am I Too Old to Get Started? Am I too old to shift careers? Am I too old to start as an artist? Am I too old to start this big project I’ve always wanted to start working on? What’s the average age to start working? If you grew up with an interest in art, drew all the time, and went to art school then most people start their art career maybe in their mid-twenties. Often people who get to art a little later in the game wonder, “Am I too old to do this?” Young people think, “When am I going to get that job?” Regardless of your age, you are probably comparing yourself to people older and younger than you, and wishing you had done something different when you were younger or feeling like you are so far behind. Examples of Successful Late Starters Sang Jun. https://www.sangjunart.com/ Didn’t start drawing until he was well into his twenties. Realized he loved drawing, and started practicing, went to art school, ended up getting a job at Lucas Film doing character design for Episode 3, and then became a lead character designer at Blue Sky. You don’t have to start in your late teens to make it. Lee White. https://www.leewhiteillustration.com/ Didn’t draw in twenties, or teens. Wasn’t interested until he was in his thirties and started drawing. Applied to Art Center of Design and got accepted with a scholarship, moved to LA, and graduated when he was 33. Then started getting his first books when he was in his mid-thirties, and that’s not the end, it’s just an on going thing. Miyazaki, the Walt Disney of Japan, in animation all throughout career until 40. That’s when he decided to start his own animation studio. He did a graphic novel at age 40 for Nausica that he wanted to make into a feature film, all of his great movies were done in his post 40’s. At age 40, you still have 25 years till most people retire, that’s a long time! You really don’t ever have to retire. Art isn’t like playing football, it’s not hard on your bones. Zombies video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngZ0K3lWKRc As You Mature, Your Art Matures Greg Manchess was winning awards and competitions for years, and he came out to do a lecture, he had just done the cover for “Above the Timberline.“ Speaking of that painting he said, “10 years ago I could not have painted this” even though 10 years ago he was winning awards for the Society of Illustrators, etc. If you really are serious about being an artist and creating the best art you are capable of creating, you have to make it a lifelong goal. It’s not a sprint. You need a schedule for yourself. You need to have an actual goal, something to look forward to. Without it, nothing happens. Don’t judge results by if you are right on target. Say, you’re 35. 5 years will pass whether you like it or not. You’re gonna be 40 at some point. Wouldn’t you rather have done something interesting with those 5 years between 35 and 40, or and tried to do this thing? If time passes anyways, you might as well do it. If you are starting later, you won’t be creating the same work that you would if you had started younger. You have had so many life experiences: losing jobs, family, work, etc. Beauty of age, experience, which leads to more informed art. If you’re older, you’ve figured out how to work and developed a good work ethic. You don’t quit until the job is done. Broader perspective, more interested in learning than instant gratification. Gina Jane was a student going back to school. She turned in some of the best projects in the class, she had done a lot of graphic design stuff but hadn’t been drawing for a while. However, she had the work ethic, and she worked so hard at applying what she was being taught. She easily turned in some of the best pieces in the class. You can accelerate your learning with your experiences. Older students are more okay learning something without instant gratification. i.e. learning perspective, having a more broad perspective and being more willing to learn. Battle Plan For someone starting at, let’s say, 35-36.. Phase 1 or Year 1: Get good at it Draw for 2 hours a day. Enroll in an online school, SVSlearn, schoolism, CGMA. Learn the Fundamentals: Perspective,  Light and Shadow, Figure Drawing, Composition, Color, how to use Line/shape/tone Fill 6-7 100 page sketchbooks, during your 2 hours a day. Work on hands, head, the figure, landscape, perspective, shading, this is your your sandbox for practicing and applying what you are learning. Pick 5 of your favorite artist, do 20 copies from each of these 5 artists. Each copy, you will learn so much from trying to deconstruct what these artists have done. You want to learn how that artist did it. You’re gonna fail with some of them, but you try and learn from the masters by copying their work. Depending on what your goal is, it might change your approach. Jon Klassen. Does a lot more simple graphic design type work. http://jonklassen.tumblr.com/ Craig Mullins. Studied industrial design. He didn’t like the industrial design look. Then he went back to school and did illustration. http://www.goodbrush.com/ Seek advice from a professional: "these are my goals, what should I do?" Sometimes students want to become a children’s book illustrator but don’t really know any illustrators. During this first year, you need to educate yourself on this field. If it’s children’s books, every week maybe read 5 a week. If it’s comics, know what’s in comics, not just 20 years ago, but what is happening now. Fill your creative bank account with what people in the industry are doing. State your goal publicly: and then share your progress on the social media platform. That’s your Phase 1/ Year 1, it might take 2-3 years. Phase 2: Build Your Portfolio Draw 4 hours a day Intermediate classes, these online schools, and svs have more advanced classes. More one on one with teachers. 4 sketchbooks this year, not studies, concept art for portfolio. Illustrator: ideas for illustrations or childrens books Comic artist: ideas for characters, your take on Wolverine, etc. Complete the Draw 100 Somethings Challenge: boats, trees, flowers, gummy robots, dinosaurs, robots, etc. Teaches you to not be satisfied with first 2-3, or 20 designs. Teaches you that true creativity comes after you have drained all the low hanging fruit. Jake did 200. Just to prove that there is no end to the ideas you can do. 100 Somethings, Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxa01j9Ns7o Continue Studying. If you’re aspiring to do childrens books- keep studying children’s books. concept artist or animator-reading every word in the “Art Of” books. Comics, keep studying comic books. Social Media- post your 100 somethings. Post your sketchbook studies. Can start growing a following, cause you aren’t just practicing but sharing your own unique ideas and what you are bringing to this field you are entering. Choose your heroes. Educate yourself on what you want to do. i.e. children’s books, comics, animation. Post regularly, share your work, journal chart progress, share what you’re learning. Keep Studying Start to pay attention to stories. At the end of the day this is what will separate you. See what the story is about, not just the details, separate that. Eventually everyone will be able to draw and paint, and story is what will separate you. Ultimately, Star Wars is all about a family. It’s a family drama, that’s what it is about. Be able to see the broader view, what’s the story about, and how did they tell that story. You can really get some great insights to storytelling, story building, and how to tell your own stories. You don’t want to just be a vapid artist who isn’t saying anything. Key: Ultimately, it is your stories that you tell that will separate you from the others.  Be observant of stories in your life and all around you. What the story is all about, what is the broader view? How did they tell the story. Look at it separate from the details. They’re not saying anything, or they’re saying the same thing that has always been said. Be conscious of the style that you are developing. See "Uncovering your Style", https://courses.svslearn.com/courses/uncovering-your-style Phase 3: Make a Product. Kickstart and Create your comic, illustrate your book, concept out your idea. Create something that works for you. Reasons: Teaches you to Start and Finish a project.An actual product, suggests a finality to the project. Not just a project. Finished not perfect. Learn Marketing Learn Production Learn Salesmanship. Learn who prints things, and how to get things printed. Learn about how when things get screwed up how to fix it? You’ll be more educated and understand what’s happening behind the scenes. Year 3 is all about taking everything you are learning and create something with it. Enter contests, put yourself out there, step up to the plate, try it, and get work out there. This is the best that I have got, this is what I have to share. Helps propel you to a new step. Do your best, and then move forward. You need moments of finality and stair stepping, then you can ask, “Where to go next?” Keep finishing things, then you go on to the next thing, and keep doing your best, then you can decide where to go next. Don’t just keep a bunch of unfinished things in the drawer. Ultimately, we want you to teach yourself how to finish and present something. This will also help you flesh out a network. If you want to be successful, you need to build a network. People above, next to, and below you.You’d be surprised at what jobs and opportunities will come. Someone above may like your work and throw you a bone. Someone next to you may recommend you for a job.  Someone below you has opportunities too. Start building that network by building things and putting them out into the world. Get into the network/world that you hope to enter. Project creates a connection with people in that world, starts a network. Study a film a week, a graphic novel a week, etc. Will used to have though that “If I look at other people’s work I would be copying.” Originality comes from taking and combining, and studying. Will wishes someone would have grabbed him and told him that. Keep feeding yourself. All creativity is, is connecting dots. Connecting dots that other people wouldn’t haven’t thought to connect. In order to connect dots, you have to have dots in the first place if you’re not filling your brain, then you have no creative capital to work with, you have no thoughts. How Can I do This? You have 4 hours in a day. You work for 9-10 hours. You have 14 hours. Maybe you shave off an hour of sleep, maybe you stop watching a TV series. It really comes down to what you want to sacrifice. You shouldn’t sacrifice family, or your job. But there are some things you need to sacrifice to go down this path. Need to discuss this with your spouse or significant other.  I.e. “This is something I feel really passionate about, let’s work out a plan, maybe Thursday Friday nights are spent doing this, and you get me Saturday and Sunday.” Maybe it’s not 4 hours a day, and it’s 2. You can get a lot done in 2 hours. If you don’t prioritize it, it will never happen. Come up with a schedule. Maybe it is Thursday or Saturday. Early to Rise. Jake gets up at 4am to work on Skyheart. Lee wakes up at 5, works from 5:30-9:30 or 10AM. During that grouping of hours, stuff happens. You can get a ton of work done in that group of time. Pursuit of Happiness. The main character would drink less water, so that he didn’t have to use the restroom as often and could therefore make more calls. You’ve got to ask yourself, how bad do you want something? It comes down to that. I really want to play the guitar, but I didn’t sacrifice for it, I didn’t prioritize it. I said that I really wanted to play the guitar, but if you don’t sacrifice and prioritize it, then you don’t really want it. You can’t have good things without some sort of sacrifice or some sort of skin in the game. Yuko Shimizu, http://yukoart.com/ She had a full time corporate job, and kept her job until eventually she hit the tipping point and she quit her corporate job, and now is an incredible illustrator. Current Projects Jake: Skyheart, 60 Pages left to color, it’s coming along well! Lee: Working on illustrating some different subject matter. Do rough sketches, then Find 3 key beats or difficult passages, and does an illustration of those passages, cause that will set tone for the rest of the book. Not just page 1, 2, etc. and does those pages and then it influences all the rest of the pages. Will: Wrapping up Texture Painting class, Finished up the Alice in Wonderland series for Comic Con, and just finished a children’s book. http://svslearn.com Jake Parker, http://mrjakeparker.com. Instagram: @jakeparker, Youtube: JakeParker44 Will Terry, http://willterry.com. Instagram: @willterryart, Youtube: WillTerryArt Lee White, http://leewhiteillustration.com. Instagram: @leewhiteillo forum.svslearn.com Podcast production and editing by Aaron Dowd. Show notes by Tanner Garlick. 3 Point Perspective Podcast is sponsored by SVSLearn.com, the place where becoming a great illustrator starts!Click here for this episode’s links and show notes.

MY ART IS GREAT, WHY WON’T ANYONE HIRE ME? Will got a really long letter from an artist who felt that they had done everything they were supposed to, they felt that their work was great, and they were frustrated that they still weren’t getting work. Jake and Will looked over this artist’s work and felt that the work was pretty good but not great. It was missing the style that fit the market that the artist wanted to go into. The style didn’t match the genre. You can’t do characters that look like they belong in World of Warcraft for a children's book. Often, it’s not that you can’t draw or paint, but that you are missing the mark on where you need to go. Your style isn’t hitting the mark with what you want to go into. Your style needs to match the intended audience. WORK ON YOUR CRAFT Sometimes we feel that when we can render something nice, we have arrived, and we feel really good about ourselves. While that’s a great start, and an important step, this is really “fool’s gold.” There is a lot more to good illustration than just drawing well, and making things look 3-dimensional. You never “arrive.” There is always an area to further grow or to better master. Never convince yourself that there is nowhere else to grow. There is a difference between drawing well, and creating a very engaging product. The first step in getting professional work is to work on your craft, develop good drawing skills, good perspective, shadows, and light and color. After mastering your craft, the second step is discretion. To not over render things, to not add too many highlights. You need to learn what to leave out. You need to learn what to illustrate and add. The artistry is figuring out what to put down, and what to leave out. CONDUCT A SELF-AUDIT You need a combination of a self audit, and a professional audit. You need to conduct a Self-Audit, as outlined below: You need go through this honestly, it will take some time. Study the published things in the realm that you want to go in, and have the “right heroes” Pick 8 top illustrators, who are getting their work published, by the big publishers, i.e. Harper Collins, Random House, Scholastic, etc. Make a 9 Square grid. Put your best piece in the middle and surround it with a piece from those 8 illustrators that you admire Identify what you like about it. Don’t just say, “I love this!”, you need to verbalize specific things that you love about their work, create a specific list, and write it down. These are the things that you need to work on incorporating into your work. Hang the list by your desk in order to remember these principles and to try to incorporate them. See Bart Forbes. When you have an image that you really like, really analyze it, and dissect it. Don’t just say, “I like this image” and then move on. Really dissect it and look for specific things that are working well for you. Ask yourself, “What am I responding to?” COPY, COPY, COPY Many people have the attitude of: “I don’t want to look at other people’s work because I want to be original, I don’t want to copy.” There is a false idea about originality that says you shouldn’t look at others people’s work, or that you shouldn’t copy or take inspiration from them. Jake still looks at others work for inspiration. All great artists do. You really don’t need to make it as hard as you’re making it! You say it comes from within, but really it comes from without and you process it and make it your own thing. Find the right artists to look at and let them flow through you. There is no way you can perfectly copy all things all the time, at some point you’re gonna mix something with something else, and with a little bit of yourself and a little bit of this other person, and you’re gonna find your own style that fits into this world that you want to get into. When you are at the level that you want to be at, then find the right people for your work. I.e. Landscape painters will find the right gallery, not a children’s book publisher. Do you know anyone who is going through med school? What is their total work hours per week? Basically, if you are in med school and are doing well, you pretty much have zero life, and have tons of focus, attention to detail, etc. And if you do well in school, you pretty much have a good job waiting for you with a good salary. Illustration is every bit as hard, to develop a unique style and a product to beat out other artists for jobs, and there is not a guaranteed job waiting for you. You should be treating it like you’re in med school.   You won’t get paid to learn and do research. You need to find the motivation within. No one will tell you everything you need to do. You need to make a schedule yourself and be self motivated. After you develop the skills it becomes more and more about making an interesting image, something that people grab onto. Extra element of storytelling, interest. The idea behind it. Am I bringing something new to this subject matter, some new idea, some kind of unique viewpoint, or perspective? See Chris Applehans. ADD INTEREST TO YOUR LIFE There is nothing interesting there? It may be because you aren’t an interesting person. But you can become more interesting, you need to have a rich life outside of art. Art is just a way to express the interestingness that’s inherently inside of you. If your work’s not interesting: go out and do something, talk to somebody, travel, go to the other side of town. You need to fill your creative bank account. You have gotta have creative capital. If you’re dry and empty, your just gonna have dry and empty work. The lazy man doesn’t get too far, the perpetually busy man doesn’t get much farther. Some people are just drawing, drawing, drawing, without much thought. Stop, what kind of images am I making? Is there something better or more interesting that I should be creating. Don’t just draw and draw without any direction, you need to be more deliberate. You can’t just exhale, you need to inhale. To summarize: If you're not getting work: Audit yourself, audit your work, evaluate your work based on others. Work on craft, do master studies, copy. Add interest to your life. Find an outside source who can give you some honest critique and create a feedback loop (get feedback, improve it, then get more feedback again.) You have to work towards getting your skin thick enough to beg for a really honest critique. A pat on the back is not a critique. 4 Step Process to Evaluate If You are Really Good People naturally gravitate towards your work. People put up work, people naturally are drawn to it. Online, people naturally gather around it. Mom, or significant other doesn’t count. People start seeing work and recommending you for something or to others. You’re gonna start to win things: contests, scholarships, free classes, etc. People will start paying you. WHY SHOULD I COPY? Top art schools have there students create master copies. It’s a proven exercise. Steps: Create a master copy, the more exact the better. Then do a new original piece as if you were that artist. When you get stuck, look back at their work and try to figure out how they might solve the problem. What would ______ do? Keep a copy sketchbook, this is a sketchbook that you can just throw away when your done. That’s it, don’t need to show it to anyone. The most valuable thing from doing these master copies is what happens in your brain and your muscle memory. The most valuable thing is inside you. When kids start to learn to play piano, the teachers don’t say, “Alright, just make a piece of music, just write whatever you want!” The kids start by playing other peoples music and learning to sight read other people music. The same is with martial arts, and with sports. They teach you moves. They teach you what the greats before did. STORY TIME Jake was working on an illustration of Santa’s sleigh being pulled by a bunch of different animals. He got an honest critique from Skottie Young, and Skottie told him that it looked like the stock image version of what Jake was trying to do. So Jake went to Pinterest and started looking up cartoon animals, made a Pinterest board with cartoon animals and saw, “oh this is how you would do a killer whale… oh this is how you would do a llama… I wouldn’t have thought to do that..” Then took a little bit of this guy, and then took a little bit of what they did in this drawing, etc, and mashed it together and made it his own. But really it was from absorbing from all of those different artists. There are pinnacle and milestone pieces where you have breakthroughs. Eventually you get to where you can focus a lot more on the creative and imaginative side of things because you don’t have to worry so much about how to actually create it. Eventually you’ll get to where you don’t have so much hurt from something not working out. You need to learn to not take it personally, or take an emotional hit; to be able to I don’t mind looking at something and saying, “Ahh, that’s not working out” and then you go back without taking an emotional hit, and say, “you know I can make this better.” Sometimes you will ask, “Why am I not impressed with what I just did? If you yourself aren’t kind of impressed, then no one else will be. You should be stoked, not trying to convince yourself, “uh, it’s good, it’s good..” There are times where Jake has worked on a piece for a few hours and then had to scrap it because it just wasn’t up to par. You need to get to the point where if your dog chewed up your piece, that you don’t mind because you know you can create it again or maybe even do something better. A WORD TO THE PROS If there is a professional illustrator out there, or close to professional who has great work and you are saying, “I’ve done this guys.” Then maybe your problem isn’t your craft, but your network. If you don’t know people in the field you want to go in, then you need to find mentors, get your work out there online, and up your game. Current Projects (What are you working on?): Jake: Skyheart, finishing things up there. Will: Reading Book, about a bunny that out foxes a wolf. About to start the sequel to Bonnepart Falls Apart. Lee: Writing a children’s book about natural disasters, and just came up with a dummy, and is learning a lot. Important Links: svslearn.com Jake Parker, mrjakeparker.com | Instagram: @jakeparker Will Terry, willterry.com | Instagram: @willterryart Lee White, leewhiteillustration.com | Instagram: @leewhiteillo forum.svslearn.com If you like this episode, please share it, subscribe, and we’d love it if you left a review! These podcasts live and die on reviews. If you want to join in on this discussion, log on to forum.svslearn.com, there is a forum for this episode you can comment on. Podcast production and editing by Aaron Dowd. Show notes by Tanner Garlick. 3 Point Perspective Podcast is sponsored by SVSLearn.com, the place where becoming a great illustrator starts!Click here for this episode’s links and show notes.

Welcome to the 3 Point Perspective podcast. This is the podcast about illustration; how to do it, how to make a living at it, and how to make an impact in the world with your art. Your hosts are Jake Parker, Will Terry, and Lee White. For the last 25 years, they've all worked with just about every major publisher and every publication in the biz. They've collectively published about 50 books, and have all taught at universities. Each week, they're going to tackle a subject related to illustration from their three different perspectives. Sometimes they'll agree, sometimes they're gonna argue, but you are gonna learn something new every time. Here are some of the questions that will be discussed: How do you get discovered as an artist? Once you're discovered, how do you negotiate a deal if you've got a job? How do you get an agent to represent you? What are the tools that illustrators use (computers, software, pens, pencils, brushes)? Why do you create? How do you stay motivated? How do you battle creative block? How do you balance work and life and still have a successful career and have a successful family life? Message from Jake, Terry, and Lee: Thanks for checking out 3 Point Perspective. We'd love it if you would subscribe to our podcast so you'll know whenever new episodes drop and you'll be able to listen to them right away. We would also love any sort of feedback you have. Did you like how the topic was presented? What's your perspective on the topics? What are things that you wanna learn about? What are questions that you have about illustration? Please hit subscribe and join us for future episodes of the Three Point Perspective podcast, and we will see you in the next episode. Jake, Terry, Lee Visit SVSLearn.com to learn more, or subscribe to the show in Apple Podcasts. 3 Point Perspective Podcast is sponsored by SVSLearn.com, the place where becoming a great illustrator starts!Click here for this episode’s links and show notes.