

On Wisdom
Charles Cassidy and Igor Grossmann
On Wisdom features a social and cognitive scientist in Toronto and an educator in London discussing the latest empirical science regarding the nature of wisdom. Igor Grossmann runs the Wisdom & Culture Lab at the University of Waterloo in Canada. Charles Cassidy runs the Evidence-Based Wisdom project in London, UK. The podcast thrives on a diet of freewheeling conversation on wisdom, decision-making, wellbeing, and society and includes regular guests spots with leading behavioral scientists from the field of wisdom research and beyond. Welcome to The On Wisdom Podcast.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 28, 2019 • 1h 3min
Episode 17: The Metaphysics of Email and The Perils of Productivity (with Oliver Burkeman)
Our current productivity culture appears to peddle a false promise: If we can just get better organised, we really can do everything - no tough life choices or trade-offs need to be made! Guardian journalist and author Oliver Burkeman joins Igor and Charles to discuss the ironic effects of the pursuit of productivity, the inbox zero phenomenon, the futile denial of limitations, the Jevons paradox, Keynes’ concerns about a future society drowning in leisure time, Nietzsche’s suspicions regarding our beloved busyness, the social complexities of sending back a poorly made coffee, and the importance of living a life that is larger than politics. Igor wonders if the ‘slow-food’ philosophy can be extended to start a ‘slow-work’ movement in social and medical sciences to help address replication concerns, Oliver explains why he sat on the London underground loudly calling out the names of approaching stations to a carriage full of strangers, and Charles reveals how a ‘free-coffees-for-nice-customers’ policy can badly backfire, particularly if your customers are British. Welcome to Episode 17.Special Guest: Oliver Burkeman.Links:Oliver Burkeman | The GuardianOliver Burkeman | The AntidoteOliver Burkeman: The Negative Path to Happiness and Success - YouTubeSupressing the 'white bears' (American Psychological Association) - Daniel Wegner's Theory of 'Ironic Processes'Why time management is ruining our lives | Oliver Burkeman | Technology | The GuardianHow to stop fighting against time. | Oliver Burkeman | TEDxUniversityofNicosia - YouTubeInbox Zero: What is Inbox Zero and is Zero Inbox Possible in 2019?The Efficiency Dilemma | The New Yorker (The Jevons Paradox)How the news took over reality | News | The GuardianRobert B. Talisse | Philosophy Department | Vanderbilt University

Apr 28, 2019 • 59min
Episode 16: Beware the Intelligence Trap! (with David Robson)
Do highly intelligent people actually take better decisions in their daily lives than everyone else? And if not, what’s missing from our picture of what it means to be ‘smart’? Can you be highly intelligent, yet flunk a rationality test? And rather than noise to be ignored, might our emotions help us make decisions that are actually more rational? David Robson joins Igor and Charles to discuss intelligence traps, Terman’s Termites, the Monte Carlo fallacy, Damasio’s Somatic Marker hypothesis, the competitive humility of the start-up culture, and the ‘brutal pessimism’ baked in to the dark history of the Intelligence test. Igor wrangles with the challenge of convincing leaders of the merits of intellectual humility in a culture obsessed with certainty, David advocates for widespread cognitive inoculations, and Charles learns that butterflies in the stomach after a date may mean love, but also may mean gastric flu. Welcome to Episode 16.Special Guest: David Robson.Links:David Robson – Exploring the human brain, body and behaviour.The Intelligence Trap – David RobsonIntelligence — Robert J. SternbergAlfred Binet and the History of IQ TestingThe Vexing Legacy of Lewis Terman | STANFORD magazineFive Minutes with Keith E. Stanovich, Richard F. West, and Maggie E. Toplak | The MIT PressRational and Irrational Thought: The Thinking That IQ Tests Miss - Scientific AmericanThe Somatic Marker Hypothesis and the Possible Functions of the Prefrontal Cortex: Damasio, Everitt and Bishop (1996)Emotional intelligence and how emotions are 'made' | WIRED UKCan We Improve Predictions? Q&A with Philip "Superforecasting" Tetlock - Scientific American Blog NetworkThe Debunking Handbook: now freely available for downloadThe Fine Art of Baloney Detection: Carl Sagan Exploring Solomon’s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults - Igor Grossmann, Ethan Kross, 2014

Apr 7, 2019 • 45min
Episode 15: Wisdom, Bullshit & Beliefs (with Gordon Pennycook)
‘Wholeness quiets infinite phenomena?’ Does it, really?! Why do some people fall for pseudo-profound bullshit and others don’t? When we share fake news stories, is this because we're motivated to think they're real, or because we don't bother to think at all? And why do scientists fight tooth-and-nail over the mechanisms involved, such as “System I vs. System II”, “Fast vs. Slow” and other frameworks? Gordon Pennycook joins Igor and Charles to discuss the critical distinction between a liar and a bullshitter, the cognitive reflection test, the random Deepak Chopra quote generator, the Ig Nobel prize, motivated reasoning, climate change beliefs, academic turf wars among dual process theorists, and how to stop yourself from compulsively retweeting fake news. Igor suggests that Gord only thought of studying bullshit after disbelief at one of Igor’s early talks, Gord reminds us that even the most enlightened social media platforms are in no hurry to help people STOP sharing news, and Charles unexpectedly finds common ground with the Chinese government. Welcome to Episode 15.Special Guest: Gordon Pennycook.Links:Gordon Pennycook's SiteOn Bullshit - Harry G. Frankfurt (2005)On the Reception and Detection of Pseudoprofound Bullshit - Pennycook, Cheyne, Barr, Koehler, Fugelsang (2015)Random Deepak Chopra Quote Generator - Wisdom of ChopraIg Nobel Prize Ceremony 2016 - VideoOpinion | Why Do People Fall for Fake News? - The New York TimesPeople Furthest Apart on Climate Views Are Often the Most Educated - Scientific American (2017)Lazy, not biased: Susceptibility to partisan fake news is better explained by lack of reasoning than by motivated reasoning - Pennycook & Rand (2018) Everyday Consequences of Analytic Thinking - Pennycook, Fugelsang, Koehler (2015)The Mythical Number Two - Melnikoff & Bargh (2018)The Mythical DualProcess Typology Gordon Pennycook, De Neys, Evans, Stanovich, Thompson (2018)

Mar 13, 2019 • 59min
Episode 14: Wisdom & Social Norms (with Michele Gelfand)
Is it wiser for a society to be ‘tight’ – strictly enforcing social rules, or ‘loose’ – in which social rule-breaking barely raise an eyebrow? What do social norms have to do with a sense of threat? And might wise leaders have worked out how to dynamically calibrate the tightness or looseness of their organisations as the situation demands? Michele Gelfand joins Igor and Charles to discuss the role of threat in ‘tight vs loose’ societies, the goldilocks principle, ‘real vs perceived’ threat’s in Trump’s America, autocratic recidivism, rum-fuelled meetings, transgressive hand puppets, and the case for recalibrating the internet. Igor reflects on the tight-loose contradictions at the beating heart of the Disney Corporation, Michele cautions against ‘flipping-off’ drivers in the honour culture of the southern states, and Charles makes peace with his inner spirit muppet, Kermit the frog. Welcome to Episode 14.Special Guest: Michele Gelfand.Links:Michele Gelfand HomepageThe Tight-Loose Quiz - Mindset Quiz: How Tight or Loose Are You? (michelegelfand.com)Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World - Michele Gelfand (Book)Differences Between Tight and Loose Cultures: A 33-Nation Study - Gelfand et al (2011)The Secret Life of Social Norms - Michele Gelfand (TEDxPaloAltoSalon talk)Culture as the menacing force behind today’s crazy politics - Michele Gelfand (The Economist, 2019)Here’s the science behind the Brexit vote and Trump’s rise - Michele Gelfand (The Guardian, 2018)An upper-class mindset doesn’t make you classy - Michele Gelfand & Jesse Harrington (Boston Globe, 2018)The Self and Social Behavior in Differing Cultural Contexts - Triandis (1989)Horizontal and Vertical Dimensions of Individualism and Collectivism: A Theoretical and Measurement Refinement - Singelis, Triandis, Bhawuk, Gelfand (1995)A theory of individualism and collectivism - Triandis & Gelfand (2012)Dimensionalizing Cultures: The Hofstede Model in Context - Hofstede (2011)A Theory of Cultural Value Orientations: Explication and Applications - Schwartz (2006)Effects of Cultural Tightness and Collectivism on Self-Concept and Causal Attributions - Carpenter (2000)Misperceptions about immigration and support for redistribution - Alesina, Miano, Stantcheva (2018)We Need a High Wall With a Big Gate - Friedman (New York Times, 2018)

7 snips
Feb 21, 2019 • 53min
Episode 13: Can Wisdom be Taught?
Can, or even should wisdom be taught at school? Would teaching about wisdom in the classroom even translate into wiser behaviour? And might learning about wise historical figures in school actually decrease the likelihood of students behaving more wisely? Igor and Charles tinker with the nuts and bolts of a speculative wisdom curriculum, discussing the stark limits of formal ethics classes, future technological tools to help identify when wise reasoning is necessary, and the counterproductive impact of presenting wise figures out of context. Igor commends Yoda for wisely encouraging Luke to share his failures, and alerts us to the dangers of turning sages into saints, while Charles struggles to acquire the wisdom necessary to know when wisdom is necessary. Welcome to Episode 13.Links:A pathway for wisdom-focused education - Huynh, Grossmann (2018)Wisdom and how to cultivate it: Review of emerging evidence for a constructivist model of wise thinking - Grossmann (2018)Teaching for Wisdom: Cross-cultural Perspectives on Fostering Wisdom - Ferrari, Potworowski (2008)Why Schools Should Teach for Wisdom: The Balance Theory of Wisdom in Educational Settings - Sternberg (2001)'From Jerusalem to Jericho': A Study of Situational and Dispositional Variables in Helping Behavior - Darley, Batson (1973)Construal-Level Theory of Psychological Distance - Trope, Liberman (2010)Yoda & Luke - The Last Jedi (2017)The Jigsaw Classroom

Jan 23, 2019 • 1h 1min
Episode 12: Social and Emotional Aging (with Laura Carstensen)
Life expectancy increased more in the 20th century than in the entire prior history of humanity combined. With many more of us now getting the opportunity to live into old age, what do we have to look forward to? Do our social and emotional lives degrade in step with our physical bodies as we age, or do we in fact get much happier as we get older? How does the sense of ‘time-left’ impact our wisdom, behaviour and priorities? Laura Carstensen joins Igor and Charles to discuss individual and societal aspects of human aging. We focus on the implications and opportunities of recent extraordinary gains in life expectancy, the socio-emotional selectivity theory, the positivity effect, the thorny issue of increasing retirement age, and the surprising role of time-horizons in how we choose to spend our time. Igor alerts us to the cultural differences and the positive impact old people have on a work team’s productivity, Laura reassures us that no-one ever wants to repeat their twenties, and Charles learns of the dangers of young people trying to think like old people as a route to happiness. Welcome to Episode 12.Special Guest: Laura Carstensen.Links:Stanford Center on LongevityOlder People are Happier - Laura Carstensen (TED Talk)A Long Bright Future - Laura Carstensen (Book)Redesigning Long Life: Uncommon Approaches for Unprecedented Challenges - Laura Carstensen (Stanford Big Data talk) Socioemotional Selectivity Theory and the Regulation of Emotion in the Second Half of Life - Carstensen, Fung, Charles (2003)Integrating cognitive and emotion paradigms to address the paradox of aging - Carstensen (2018)Taking time seriously. A theory of socioemotional selectivity - Carstensen, Isaacowitz, Charles (1999)The influence of a sense of time on human development - Carstensen (2006)Emotional experience improves with age: evidence based on over 10 years of experience sampling - Carstensen, Turan, Scheibe, Ram, Ersner-Hershfield, Samanez-Larkin, Brooks, Nesselroade (2011)Psychological Perspectives on Successful Aging: The Model of Selective Optimization with Compensation - Baltes P, Baltes M (1990)A cultural perspective on emotional experiences across the life span - Grossmann, Karasawa, Kan, Kitayama (2014)

Dec 28, 2018 • 59min
Episode 11: Wisdom at Work (with Barry Schwartz)
Can we design our workplaces to generate wiser behaviour? Why do we work anyway, and would we still work if we didn’t get paid? Do employers even want their employees to develop wisdom? Barry Schwartz joins Igor and Charles to discuss how Aristotle’s Practical Wisdom applies in the 21st Century, the reasons why we work, idea technology, the unintended consequences of rules-based systems, and the moral dangers and limits of incentives. Igor proposes the idea of algorithm-based wise machines, Barry suggests companies hire for character rather than skill, and Charles learns why, in wiser work places, the cost of free-riders may well be a price worth paying. Welcome to Episode 11.Special Guest: Barry Schwartz.Links:Our Loss of Wisdom - Barry Schwartz (TED talk)Using Our Practical Wisdom - Barry Schwartz (TED talk)The Paradox of Choice - Barry Schwartz (TED Talk)Practical Wisdom (Book) - Barry Schwartz & Kenneth SharpeWhy We Work - Barry Schwartz (Book)The Paradox of Choice - Barry Schwartz (Book)Rethinking Work - Barry Schwartz (New York Times)

Nov 22, 2018 • 50min
Episode 10: Wise Bodies, Wise Brains (with Wendy Berry Mendes)
Is our capacity for wise behaviour determined not just by our psychology but also by our physiology? Is there such a thing as ‘good stress’, and how might our assessment of a situation reduce the chances of us 'choking'? And can our own bodies actually be physically affected by other people's emotions? Wendy Berry Mendes joins Igor and Charles to discuss the interaction between the psychological and physiological processes underpinning wise behaviour, exploring 'challenge vs threat' stress responses, vagal flexibility, affect contagion, and the physiology of social sensitivity and good judgement. Igor wants to know how to stay calm before dance competitions, Wendy shares tales of stressing out unsuspecting young mothers and their babies, and Charles learns of the hidden upsides to mind-body meltdowns. Welcome to Episode 10.Special Guest: Wendy Berry Mendes.Links:Emotion, Health, and Psychophysiology LabDecisions Under Distress : Stress Profiles Influence Anchoring and Adjustment - Kassam, Koslov, Mendes (2009)More than a feeling: A unified view of stress measurement for population science - Epel, Crosswell , Mayer, Prather, Slavich , Puterman, Mendes (2018)Vagal Flexibility: A Physiological Predictor of Social Sensitivity - Muhtadie, Koslov, Akinola, Mendes (2014)Cardiac vagal flexibility and accurate personality impressions: Examining a physiological correlate of the good judge - Human, Mendes (2018)A Heart and A Mind: Self-distancing Facilitates the Association Between Heart Rate Variability, and Wise Reasoning - Grossmann, Sahdra, Ciarrochi (2016) Affect Contagion Between Mothers and Infants: Examining Valence and Touch - Waters, West, Karnilowicz, Mendes (2017)Stress Contagion: Physiological Covariation Between Mothers and Infants - Waters, West, Mendes (2014)Contagious Anxiety: Anxious European Americans Can Transmit Their Physiological Reactivity to African Americans - West, Koslov, Page-Gould, Major, Mendes (2017)Sartorial symbols of social class elicit class-consistent behavioral and physiological responses: A dyadic approach - Kraus, Mendes (2014)Video - How Does Gratitude Affect Health and Aging? - Presentation at UC Berkeley's Greater Good Gratitude Summit 2014Video - Experts in Emotion: Wendy Berry Mendes on Psychophysiology Measurement and Health - Experts in Emotion Series; June Gruber, Yale UniversityMy BP Lab

Oct 29, 2018 • 50min
Episode 9: Dangerous Reflections (with Valerie Tiberius)
Can philosophers and psychologists work together to guide us towards living wisely? In pursuing the good life, can too much reflection be dangerous? Might philosophers have downplayed the importance of getting lost in experience? Valerie Tiberius joins Igor and Charles to discuss positive illusions, values integration, bearing our own reflective survey, and the perils of excessive introspection. Igor has questions about the rise of the empirically-informed movement in philosophy, Valerie suggests humility is critical to friendship, and Charles wants to know how hit-moral-philosophy-comedy ‘The Good Life’ ever got commissioned. Welcome to Episode 9.Special Guest: Valerie Tiberius.Links:Valerie Tiberius's websiteThe Reflective Life: Living Wisely With Our LimitsWell-Being as Value Fulfillment How We Can Help Each Other to Live Well Valerie Tiberius (Oxford University Press)Wisdom Through Reflection - The New York Academy of Sciences, February 3, 2016 (Video) — An excerpt from "Cultivating Character: The Art of Living" featuring Steve Paulson, Valerie Tiberius, Philip Kitcher and Lisa Feldman Barrett.
Conversations on Wisdom: UnCut Interview with Valerie Tiberius - Centre for Practical Wisdom, University of Chicago (Video)The Good PlaceWhat We Owe to Each Other - T. M. ScanlonSchwartz theory of basic valuesToward a universal psychological structure of human values - Shalom Schwartz, Wolfgang Bilsky, (1987)BBC Tomorrow's World: Global Values - Where do you fit?DeYoung Personality Laboratory - Prof. Colin DeYoungThe Many Faces of Wisdom: An Investigation of Cultural-Historical Wisdom Exemplars Reveals Practical, Philosophical, and Benevolent Prototypes. Weststrate NM, Ferrari M, Ardelt M (2016)The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom - Jonathan HaidtStrangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious - Timothy D. WilsonDavid Hume (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)Virtue Ethics (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)Exploring Solomon's paradox: self-distancing eliminates the self-other asymmetry in wise reasoning about close relationships in younger and older adults - Grossmann, Kross (2014)How Theories of Well-Being Can Help Us Help - Tiberius (2018) — Includes an outline of Tiberius' Value Fulfillment Theory

Sep 27, 2018 • 59min
Episode 8: The Dark Side (with Paul Bloom)
One thing we all seem to agree on is that empathy is an unmitigated good. But what if we are wrong? Might some forms of empathy actually be dangerous for society, biasing preferences towards those that look like us, or even those we find attractive? And even when our closest companions are in pain, is ‘feeling what they feel’ really the best way to help? Are horrific acts of cruelty made palatable by dehumanising the victims, or is the truth actually much worse? And how can social media turn do-gooders into deliverers of unlimited vengeance? Paul Bloom takes Igor and Charles for a walk on the dark side, exploring the treacherous hidden terrain of empathy, harmless torturers, aggregate cruelty and third-party punishment. Igor calls for tech companies to start hiring moral philosophers, Paul raises moral objections to loving your own children, and Charles has his mind blown and heart crushed by a revelatory, yet even darker, interpretation of human cruelty. Welcome to Episode 8.Special Guest: Paul Bloom.Links:Paul Bloom's SiteThe Case Against Empathy - VoxAgainst Empathy: Why Emotion-Based Politics Lead to Inaction - Big ThinkAn appraisal theory of empathy and other vicarious emotional experiences: Wondra & Ellsworth (2015)Effective AltruismThe Root of All Cruelty? - Paul BloomAre We All ‘Harmless Torturers’ Now? - Paul Bloom & Matthew JordanThird-party punishment as a costly signal of trustworthiness: Jordan, Hoffmann, Bloom, Rand (2016)Moral outrage in the digital age - Molly CrockettSo You've Been Publicly Shamed - Jon Ronson - Guardian reviewBarack Obama and the 'empathy deficit'


