

On Wisdom
Charles Cassidy and Igor Grossmann
On Wisdom features a social and cognitive scientist in Toronto and an educator in London discussing the latest empirical science regarding the nature of wisdom. Igor Grossmann runs the Wisdom & Culture Lab at the University of Waterloo in Canada. Charles Cassidy runs the Evidence-Based Wisdom project in London, UK. The podcast thrives on a diet of freewheeling conversation on wisdom, decision-making, wellbeing, and society and includes regular guests spots with leading behavioral scientists from the field of wisdom research and beyond. Welcome to The On Wisdom Podcast.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Aug 29, 2023 • 50min
56: Awe Reloaded (with Dacher Keltner)
 Have we overlooked a major source of awe, right under our collective noses? Dacher Keltner returns to the On Wisdom studio to discuss his new book "Awe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life", the power of moral beauty, the desire for connection, and the importance of wandering. Igor suggest that awe can also entail feelings of terror, Dacher reflects on the perils of awe being used against us, and Charles shares his experience of an awe walk-around-the-bloc. Welcome to Episode 56.Special Guest: Dacher Keltner.Links:Dacher Keltner | UC PsychAwe: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your LifeGreater Good: The Science of a Meaningful LifeBerkeley Social Interaction LaboratoryDacher Keltner: Why Awe Is Such an Important Emotion - YouTubeThe Science of Happiness Podcast | Greater GoodAwe as a scientific emotion - Gottlieb, Keltner, Lombrozo (2018)Self-Transcendent Awe as a Moral Grounding of Wisdom - Dacher Keltner, Paul K. Piff (2020)Awe and humility. - PubMed - NCBI - Stellar, gordon, Anderson, Piff, McNeil, Keltner (2018)Why Do We Feel Awe? | Greater GoodWhy Does Awe Have Prosocial Effects? New Perspectives on Awe and the Small Self - Joshua D. Perlin, Leon Li (2020)Awe Motivates Authentic-Self Pursuit via Self-Transcendence: Implications for Prosociality - Tonglin Jiang, Constantine Sedikides (2021) 

Aug 5, 2023 • 1h 4min
55: Wise of the Machines (with Sina Fazelpour)
 Sina Fazelpour, an assistant professor of philosophy and computer science at Northeastern University, explores the intersection of AI, ethics, and societal impact. They delve into the challenges of bias in algorithms and emphasize the importance of diversity in AI systems. Sina discusses how wisdom can be seen as an awareness of one’s social position and the need for humility in decision-making. The conversation highlights the potential of AI to enhance human creativity and problem-solving while cautioning against simplistic approaches to algorithmic alignment. 

10 snips
May 30, 2023 • 49min
54: Emotions Are Not What You Think (with Lisa Feldman Barrett )
 What actually are “emotions” and how are they made? Lisa Feldman Barrett joins Igor and Charles to discuss what we’ve got right and what we’ve got completely wrong about the nature of our emotional lives. Igor grapples with the idea that red apples aren’t necessarily red, Lisa shares that anger doesn’t always look like anger, and Charles learns that a racing heartbeat can be interpreted in fundamentally different ways. Welcome to Episode 54.Special Guest: Lisa Feldman Barrett.Links:Lisa Feldman Barrett's Website (Public)Interdisciplinary Affective Science LaboratoryYou Aren't at The Mercy of Your Emotions - Your Brain Creates Them | TED Talk (Jan 2018)Cultivating Wisdom: The Power Of Mood | TED Talk (May 2018)The theory of constructed emotion: An active inference account of interoception and categorization - Barrett, L. F. (2017)How Emotions Are Made: The Secret Life of the Brain | Book (2017)Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain | Book (2020)Context Reconsidered: Complex Signal Ensembles, Relational Meaning, and Population Thinking in Psychological Science - Lisa Feldman Barrett (2022) 

Apr 10, 2023 • 60min
53: Moral Reframing and The Science of Political Persuasion (with Robb Willer)
 How can you persuade someone who disagrees with you on everything? In this episode, we discover the secrets of political persuasion with Robb Willer, a leading expert on political persuasion and moral reframing. Igor grills Robb on the ethics of activism in social science, Robb defends his mission to make a difference in the world, and Charles is amazed to find out that he can fix his misperceptions with a few simple tricks. Don’t miss this inspiring and ground-breaking conversation that will transform how you communicate with others. Tune in to Episode 53 now!Special Guest: Robb Willer.Links:Robb Willer's WebsiteHow to Have Better Political Conversations | Ted Talk (2017)The Key to Political Persuasion | New York TimesFrom Gulf to Bridge: When Do Moral Arguments Facilitate Political Influence? - Matthew Feinberg, Robb Willer (2015)Correcting inaccurate metaperceptions reduces Americans’ support for partisan violence - Joseph S. Mernyk, Sophia L. Pink, James N. Druckman, Robb Willer (2022)Interventions to reduce partisan animosity - Rachel Hartman, Will Blakey, Jake Womick, Chris Bail, Eli J. Finkel, Hahrie Han, John Sarrouf, Juliana Schroeder, Paschal Sheeran, Jay J. Van Bavel, Robb Willer & Kurt Gray (2022)The activist’s dilemma: Extreme protest actions reduce popular support for social movements - Matthew Feinberg, Robb Willer, Chloe Kovacheff (2020) 

Jan 5, 2023 • 55min
52: World Wide Wisdom (with Deepak Ramola)
 Imagine gathering hard-earned lessons from survivors of human trafficking in Nepal, middle school children in Afghanistan, refugees in Europe, and even a man who has witnessed over 12,000 deaths. Deepak Ramola has been on such a lesson-gathering mission for a while, and he joins Igor and Charles to discuss the life lessons he has collected, who gets to define moral behaviour, and how we might change our culture to encourage more perspective-taking. Igor highlights the challenge of stepping outside ourselves in the heat of the moment, Deepak asks some challenging questions about love, and Charles learns the surprising value of proverbs as tools of reflection. Special Guest: Deepak Ramola.Links:Deepak Ramola's SiteProject FuelWorld Wisdom MapDeepak Ramola | Ted Talk50 Toughest Questions of Life | Deepak Ramola 

Nov 16, 2022 • 58min
51: Tricky Colleagues and Contagious Emotions (with Tessa West)
 How do we respond wisely to foolish behaviour in the workplace? Tessa West joins Igor and Charles to talk about the most common types of ‘jerks at work’ - including the bulldozer, the credit stealer, and the gaslighter, discussing what drives such unhelpful behaviour, and how best to deal with it. Igor explores the different ways we can respond to uncertainty in the workplace, Tessa suggests that we’re surprisingly nice to moral violators, and Charles learns the importance of building ‘affect contagion buffers’ into his day! Welcome to Episode 51.Special Guest: Tessa West.Links:Tessa West's homepageTessa West's NYU pageJerks at Work: Toxic Coworkers and What to Do About Them - Tessa West (2022) | BookStress Contagion: Physiological Covariation Between Mothers and Infants - Waters, West, Mendes (2014)5 Signs You're The Jerk At Work | Huffington Post 

Oct 10, 2022 • 57min
50: Morality Meets World (with Joshua Greene)
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Can insights from moral psychology increase donations to more effective charities? Joshua Greene joins Igor and Charles to discuss ventilator allocation and other pandemic-related trolley problems, deep pragmatism, the dual process theory of moral judgement, and the power of the veil of ignorance. Igor gets excited about the role of metacognition for wisdom, Joshua reveals in what contexts we feel more comfortable pushing a fat man off a bridge, and Charles learns that when it comes to unfamiliar moral problems, we should not expect cognitive miracles! Welcome to Episode 50.Special Guest: Joshua Greene.Links:Giving Multiplier — Give to both your favourite charity and a super-effective charity recommended by experts.Joshua Greene's HomepageMoral Tribes: Emotion, Reason, and the Gap Between Us and Them - Joshua Greene (2014) | BookVeil-of-ignorance reasoning favors the greater good - Karen Huang, Joshua D. Greene, Max Bazerman (2019)The Psychology of (In)Effective Altruism - Lucius Caviola, Stefan Schubert, Joshua D. Greene (2021)Talks at Google | Joshua Greene - Moral Tribes: Emotion, Reason, and the Gap Between Us and Them | Joshua Green | Talks at GoogleVeil of Ignorance | Ethicsunwrapped 

Aug 31, 2022 • 48min
49: Wise Goals (with Ayelet Fishbach)
 Ayelet Fishbach, a behavioral science expert and author of *Get It Done*, joins the conversation to unpack the art of goal-setting. She emphasizes the importance of pausing to assess goals rather than jumping into action, urging listeners to rethink their relationships with vegetables by choosing enjoyable healthy foods. Ayelet discusses wisdom as an ongoing process, offers strategies for making better decisions, and highlights the impact of community structures on long-term choices. A thought-provoking dialogue that encourages a wiser approach to motivation! 

Aug 1, 2022 • 48min
48: A Joyous Journey from Black-and-White to Grey (with Tom Gilovich)
 Is "the spectrum" a more helpful way to think about the world than "categories"? Tom Gilovich joins Igor and Charles to discuss the perils of black-and-white thinking, the evolving data on the hot hand phenomenon, the science of regret, why foxes are wiser than hedgehogs, and the freedom that comes from learning that we are of less interest to other people than we think. Igor considers the limits of psychological nudging in tackling society’s structural problems, Tom shares the perspective that leads him to be so unrelentingly joyful, and Charles learns that even scientists have to work hard to avoid being typecast. Welcome to Episode 48.Special Guest: Tom Gilovich.Links:Tom Gilovich's Page | Cornell UniversityGilovich Judgment and Belief LabThe Wisest One in the Room: How You Can Benefit from Social Psychology's Most Powerful Insights (Tom Gilovich and Lee Ross)How We Know What Isn't So: The Fallibility of Human Reason in Everyday Life - Gilovich The i-Frame and the s-Frame: How Focusing on Individual-Level Solutions Has Led Behavioral Public Policy Astray - Chater, Loewenstein (2022) 

Jul 20, 2022 • 1h 2min
47: Charting Pandemic Waters: A Common Wisdom Model for Uncertain Times (with Howard Nusbaum) - Rebroadcast
 (First Broadcast - 21st June 2020)
What is the value of wisdom in the time of the global pandemic? Does the community of behavioural scientists studying wisdom agree on anything about the nature of wisdom? Can we say what we now know about wisdom and, conversely, what do we know we don’t yet know? Howard Nusbaum joins Igor and Charles to discuss the recently assembled Toronto Wisdom Task Force and the resulting Common Wisdom Model, meta-cognition, the thorny issue of moral-grounding, and sage advice regarding how to measure wisdom in the lab. Igor stresses the importance of building solid theoretical foundations for the field in the context of the pandemic, Howard reflects on the viability of evil wisdom, and Charles learns that we had better pay close attention today to the values we program into the decision-making robots of tomorrow. Special Guest: Howard Nusbaum.Links:Original Broadcast: Episode 29 - Charting Pandemic Waters: A Common Wisdom Model for Uncertain Times (with Howard Nusbaum)The Science of Wisdom (AEON)The Science of Wisdom in a Polarized World: Knowns and Unknowns: Psychological Inquiry: Vol 31, No 2A Common Model Is Essential for a Cumulative Science of Wisdom: Psychological Inquiry: Vol 31, No 2University of Chicago Center for Practical Wisdom | Center for Practical Wisdom | The University of ChicagoWisdom in Context - Igor Grossmann, 2017Toronto Wisdom Task Force Meeting 2019 (edited) - YouTubeAI Open Letter - Future of Life Institute 


