Commercial Photographer: Your Guide to Marketing, Creativity and Growth

Andrew is a Sydney, Australia based photographer. He started an interview based podcast 12 years ago and now podcasting is what he spends most of his time doing, his wife runs the photography guests. In that time he has spoken to over 600 guests. He finds that the listeners get the most from listening to the average photographer working hard in their business. But he has spoken to some very famous photographers including Ben Chrisman, Gable Clintop, Gable Peterson, Sue Bryce. Andrew says he used to be part of the AIPP going to conferences and learning a lot. He was also an avid podcast listener and wondered why there weren’t podcasts where you can learn the things you do at these conferences. So he set one up where you could. Sam asks about the photography industry. Andrew says its very similar the world over. You get out what you put in. You can make a great living and a great life, but you have to put in the time and work to make this happen. Sam asks time and work doing what. Andrew says everything in the business. Accounts, marketing, HR sales. Marcus says that marketing is so much more important than it ever was. Andrew says most people focus too much on getting more leads rather then working more on educating and converting those leads. So Andrew says it is important to ensure that you focus on how you convert leads into customers. Andrew says he was talking to a dog photographer who generated 150 leads at a dog show, but he is struggling to convert them. Unless he gets that proves sorted then then the show will be a waste of time. Andrew says he needs to work on a script, that doesn’t sound scripted to talk through on the phone. To move them from a lead to a customer. Marcus moves onto problems photographers have. Andrew says many photographers count themselves as natural light photographers. Andrew thinks photographers using natural light only are often under skilled and lead to learn more about lighting. There is a show about lighting which you can find here. Marcus says you have so much more confidence having a full understanding of lighting. Sam asks what photographers should do to learn more about lighting. Andrew says Youtube tutorials are the simplest place to start. But then people also like teaching in person and getting some tuition from a photographer who offers training. The other thing is to simply get some lights and get out there and try them. Marcus asks about marginal gains that photographers could do in their business. Andrew says optimising your price list to allow your clients to spend more is a good thing to do. He talked to Sarah Louise Jackson a  photographer in Melbourne. Her pricing was setup to persuade customers to move up to the next level. Tony Tafe a headshot photographer in the US changed prices for headshot photographers in the US and made it easier for customers to spend more.   Sam asks if there is anything he has learnt from guests on his podcasts recently. He says he was talking to a family photographer who at the end of the season has an exhibition showing 1 shot from each photoshoot she has done. And everyone in the exhibition comes, brings their family and friends and she sells lots more photoshoots at the exhibition. He says for commercial photographers LinkedIn is very important and Jeff Brown is an expert on this, you can listen to the show with him here. Andrew says the technique Jeff uses on LinkedIn is to alternate business and personal posts. People interact with the personal post which then helps to boost his business posts. You can find Andrew and his Podcast here.

Nathan Pidd and Mike Robertson are VIP Creative. Together they run a video and photography business in Hull. Nathan had been doing photography as long as he can remember. He met Mike through a mutual friend and Mike helped on Nathan’s first wedding. In the business they have now, Nathan heads the photography side and Mike heads the video side. After three years of running the business alongside full time jobs, they decided to run the business full time.  Nathan explains his training was through a fine art degree that then moved into lens media and really enjoyed using Photoshoot. After university he ended up opening up a print shop at the university and then also started teaching at the university. Sam asked how they managed with running a business after all of the focus on creativity at university. Mike says the accounts and marketing is something they have always struggled with. So their marketing does takes a back seat. They do outsource some things like accounts. Mike says when they started out they thought they would be able to finish early and work three days a week. But now he finds he works much longer hours than he ever has done before, but he enjoys it. Nathan says he was scared to be a photographer by himself, so having Mike alongside him make that move much easier for him. Nathan says it’s great as they both have different skills. Sam asks if they have advice for others thinking of setting up a business as partners. Mike says they have creative differences and that can cause problems. You have to also make sure you get on really well as you will be tested on the way. Although you will have differences you have to agree on the core of the business. Mike also says think is this the person I can manage with when the going gets tough. Marcus asks if they have a niche and they say no. They work with a variety of businesses across video and photography. With their time in the industry they have done a wide range of things. Mike thinks this helps to maintain their creativity.  Nathan says they also enjoy the challenge of doing different things from one day to the next. Marcus asks about their setup. Nathan says he is a “lighting nut” and that’s the first thing he focusses in on set. They also use the lighting for their video work as well as the photography. They also work together, so most projects they do together as a team. On site they work together and tend to have specific roles that they automatically get on with. They say their knowledge of sound and lighting means that the videos they produce have very high production values. Sam asks how they persuade people to use them and not their phone to make videos. Mike says the client needs to appreciate what they do, so they see the value. Mike also says they need to do both. Take photos and videos on your phone, but then also have the higher quality professional photos and videos too. You can find out more about the podcast on our website  Join the Facebook Group here and get the podcast delivered to your inbox every week here.

This show is about working with models but is also working with all sorts of different people on a shoot. How do you find a fashion model for a test? A test is a situation where everyone is working together for free to build images for their portfolio. It is a very typical way of starting the fashion world. Marcus says the first thing is what a fashion model looks like. Look at fashion magazines to get an idea for this. Marcus says that fashion models should look striking / unusual. Marcus says now there is a very positive change from everyone being very skinny to there being more body shapes seen in fashion. Although he says there is still a long way to go here. A good place to go to find a model to do a test with is a local model agency and then you need to find the newest models on their books. The newer models will be the ones who also want images for their portfolio. Agencies may ask to see your portfolio before letting you shoot one of their models. This can be an issue if this is also your first step into the world of fashion photography. But don’t let this be a barrier to you, give it a try. Street casting is another way to find a model. So approach people on the street who you think would be a great model. Having a portfolio to show as part of this is helpful. There also online model agencies. Marcus thinks are not necessarily the best models for fashion shoots. But you can still approach them. Sam says setting up this test means you have a group of people all starting out in fashion who can all help each other as a network. Marcus now moves on to posing a model and this part of the podcast is also relevant to other areas of photography. Although he doesn’t like the word posing. He has three ways to help get a model / subject to pose in a certain way. They are Mirroring, Role play, ObservationMirroring He got this idea from the photographer Richard Avedon. Basically you have to get “in tune” with the model and they will naturally mirror what you do without thinking about it. So if you cross your arms they do to. Role PlayMarcus says he does this a lot in brand photography. Marcus suggests scenarios and then the subject acts them outObservation This is about looking deeply at the subject, spotting what they do naturally, remembering it and asking them to do it again. He says there are many other ways but Marcus thinks these are the most effective. Marcus says one of the most important things on a shoot with a model, or anyone, is the “vibe” in the studio. Music is a good way to create a vibe, both using music the model like, but also the music can be used to effect the mood on the shoot.   Marcus’s final hint is that if you are going to put together fashion shoot make sure you know who it is going to be for as different magazines have different styles.

Gareth says his focus is the monetisation of this autism. One of his obsessions is LinkedIn. And he decided with his knowledge of LinkedIn he should help people get better with Linkedin. Gareth is also a percussionist. Marcus explains we do have a show about what we can learn from the music business. Gareth has been on LinkedIn just a year after I began. He has been on it 14 or 15 years. LinkedIn has been owned by Microsoft for quite a long time. More recently Microsoft has been getting more involved and they have been pushing users into paying for the use of the platform. Gareth says that up until recently it’s been possible to use LinkedIn as a free user. And if you use Linkedin to find a job then you can still manage free. But if you are trying to grow your tribe and your business it is very hard now without premium. It effects now even how much your posts are seen. LinkedIn give you a score your SSI score which you can find here. Having premium effects that score.   Gareth says that connecting with people is important and he has an connection message he thinks you should use. Gareth says an initial message ensures you get a higher connection rate and you get more of a response after the connection, if you started with a connection message. He thinks now up to 20 touches are needed on LinkedIn before you can get someone to do something you have asked. Gareth says commenting on other peoples stuff is really important. He also says posting about other peoples work and asking questions is a great way to go.  Gareth recommends having a camera in your LinkedIn profile photo. That enables connections to know what you do almost instantly. Gareth says he works on the principal that he gives away 80% of what he does. He wants people to see him as an authority in this field. So he gives them stuff people can test him on. They use it and then they start to trust him. Gareth then talks about the SSI. This is based on 4 different scores added together. Those four scores are different aspect of LinkedIn such as interacting and connecting. Posting regularly and commenting and liking other peoples content is another part. Gareth also recommends resisting using AI to create content. But says it’s great for structure and helping to improve your content. Top voice is the next topic. For anyone with over 1000 followers you get asked by LinkedIn to comment on some things. You can use this to become a “top voice”. To do this you have to answer and write comments on AI generated content. So Gareth recommends follow the link when you are asked to comment, but then within that topic do not comment and move up to the top level where you can chose topics. You can then see all the topics A-Z. Pick one that is close to you, then in that section pick a sub-section relevant to you. Then comment only on topic in this area. Gareth recommends in these area to be provocative and ruffle some feathers. That will get responses. You only get top voice if your comments get further comments and interaction.   Gareth’s final tip is ensure you have the odd spelling mistake in some things you do to show you are not AI. Also avoid “Z”s in your work, which shows that content has been made by AI using American spelling.

Bel is part of Turpin Accounting Services a business setup by her Mum. Bel she she fell into accounting. She started in retail management, but when her Mum’s business expanded she needed help. Bel started doing data entry on her days off, and then applied for a role when it became available. So she started on admin, then moved onto bookkeeping, then accounting and did all the training in those areas on the way. Now she works with clients on business development. Marcus says he doesn’t have an accountant and asks why he should use one as a sole trader. Bel says it’s a lot about having someone to be able to ask the right questions. It’s not that the accounts are often wrong it’s just that as a business owner it’s hard to see the bigger picture from your numbers. So she could help Marcus make more money, make him more tax efficient and things like that. What is the difference between bookkeeping and accountancy? Bookkeeping is the day to day data entry and organisation. An accountant does more advanced work such as end of year accounts or giving you advice. Sam asks as a photographer is it best to have an accountant or a bookkeeper. Bel says it depends what you want to get out of the business at the end of the day. Look at the time you are spending on accounts, is it worth handing that over to someone else? In terms of accounting it’s a question of whether you want to move the business forward. Bel thinks there is education needed in terms of what things can be put through business expenses. Things like a home office, internet bills, gas, electricity and a percentage of the mortgage. Equipment can all go through as well as subscriptions like Adobe and CRM packages. Bel highly recommends using accounting software as it makes life easier. As the government is moving to making tax digital it means that almost all businesses will need to be using the software before too long. It’s likely that will be for all businesses turning over more that £12k a year. Sam asks if Bel has any thoughts on which accounting software is better for as small business. She thinks Xero gives a bit more analysis than Quick Books. But overall they are all very similar. Marcus asks the advantages and advantages of being a limited company and being VAT registered. Bel says it’s about what your business wants to achieve. Some large clients will only work limited businesses. As a Limited company you have different ways to get money out of the business which aren’t available as a sole trader. Being VAT registered is again linked to bigger clients and some may expect you to be VAT registered. It has big effects on buying equipment and claiming VAT back. Sam wonders why more photographers don’t become a limited company. Bel does warn that such a change tends to double your accountants costs. Bel does free accounting clinics once a month which can be found on Eventbrite Sam asks what a photographer does if he owns equipment and then starts a business. How you can account for this. Bel says you can, if you are a limited company you can sell the equipment to the business. So the business then owes you that money. Sam talks about equipment depreciating and accounting for that, but Bel says you will probably need an accountant to deal with this.The discussion also goes onto the fact that accountants need brand photographers and videographers. So make sure you talk to your accountant to see if you can help them with their photography. You can get in touch with Bel herehttps://www.turpinaccounting.co.uk bel@turpinaccounting.co.uk

 This episode is sponsored by Website for photographers. Website 4 photographers help photographers get more leads from their websites. You can get in touch here ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠info@website4photographers.co.uk⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠01482 765871 This week Sam talks about apps you can use in your business.   Accounting apps This is a vital part of all of our businesses. This can be done on excel, but this doesn’t give you much business information. The app also makes your life easy in many ways. Once the template is set up sending invoices is quick and easy. The app also gives you key business information in the form of reports. It also makes paying VAT easy. Xero and Quickbooks are the biggest players in town. Zoho Books is an option and can integrate with other apps. There is also Wave which is much simpler than ⁠Xero⁠ and ⁠Quickbooks  but has some free features. The free  version is great but Sam doesn’t rate the premium versionProject / business managementThese are effectively ways to organise your to do lists. We can get overloaded with post it notes, pieces of paper etc. These help us get more organised. They are great for repeating task lists that you can use for consistency with every customer. It also helps with tracking the day to day tasks you need to do.  The main apps here are Monday Asana and Trello. These do very similar things but in different ways. They all have free trials, so you can try them and see which one you like. For most photographers the free version of these will do the jobs you need.CRMThis is a customer relationship management tool. Many CRMS do a wide range of tasks. But, at that core they track all of the people you speak to and every conversation you have had with them. You can click on someone and see all the email, phone call and other conversations you have had with this person. It also allows you to set reminders to help you get back to leads or customers at the right time.  Most CRMs also do many other things such as email marketing and landing pages. Marcus uses Studio Ninja which is photography specific. Sam says it’s easy to setup CRMs as as soon as anyone emails you they are entered automatically into the CRM. There are lots of CRMS. Sam uses Hubspot free version and has done for 6 years. There is also Freshworks and of course Zoho. Sam says in terms of a CRM, a photography business is like any other so Sam doesn’t see how useful a photography specific CRM would be.   Book an appointment appMarcus brings these up as useful apps. They all do a similar thing. They hook up to your diary and allow people to book appointments. They work well. Marcus uses Calendly and Sam uses Doodle. It does save a lot of time going back and forth organising appointments. AISam says AI like ChatGPT is really useful for all sorts of things. For example checking a contract you’ve written, changing a blog into a LinkedIn article, giving you blog ideas etc. Don’t use it for creating content though.Communication Apps WhatsApp Business is a great app. WhatsApp is a great way to communicate with customers and leads. It looks more professional that standard WhatsApp and is free. Slack is great if there are several people in your business. If there is just you it’s a waste of time. But if there is several of you it is a great way to organise the communication within your business.  

Suzanne has been working fo the last 16 years as a personal stylist. Once people find what clothes suit them and work for them, shopping and dressing becomes so much easier. Suzanne was nurse for a while, but decided it wasn’t for her. She then studied fashion and worked for various high street brands. From there she had her own shop. After she closed that business she trained as a stylist and has been working as a stylist ever since. Suzanne’s shop was a ladies accessory shop with a café. Marcus points out that twenty years ago having a café in a shop has ahead of it’s time. She trained and then worked with the House of Colour in Watford. Suzanne says now she tends to work with 40 plus business people. And the proportion of men she is working with is gradually increasing. With lockdown and the use of Zoom men are spending a lot more time looking at themselves and either getting bored with what they see or deciding they want some help with styling. We have spoken to a male stylist Nick Hemms. Suzanne works as a stylist with one photographer in particular, Suzanne Fells. She helps Suzanne's clients helping them find clothes that are appropriate before a photo shoot. This allows them to arrive at the photo shoot stress free, prepared and more in control. Marcus has asked what Suzanne does if brand colours don’t suit a client going for a brand photoshoot. She says in that case she aims for neutral colours that fit them and the brand. Sam asks how she goes about finding what colours work for people. Suzanne says its about skin tone. She starts with the primary colours, red, yellow and blue. Once she has looked at skin tone and the colours she works out which work best together. Marcus asks how she makes sure that the clothes people  where are authentic. Suzanne says it’s a lot about asking lots of questions about there current clothes and lifestyle. And asking lots of questions as people try different clothes.   Suzanne has regular photo shoots for her business with Suzanne Fells. Suzanne says that with all of the photos you can ensure you look authentic on social media while using all these new images. Marcus asks Suzanne to share some hints for photographers. Suzanne know how many outfits a client is going to need. Talk to them about ensuring they are clean and ironed and take them I a bag that won’t crease them. Ensure the clients give themselves plenty of time before the shoot to sort their hair and make up. Marcus asks about colours. She says some colours are universal and work well for lots of people like teal and coral. Some light colours can look washed out in photos. Suzanne says dark colours, not necessarily black, give people authority. A jacket also tends to give authority. Suzanne also says those with brighter eyes tend to be able to wear brighter clothes. Suzanne also advices women on make up and hair colour. Marcus points out that we had a whole show about hair colour with Sonya Dove. Changing hair colour can change what clothes and colours work for them. Suzanne suggests that people get a style review every few years as skin tone and hair colour changes. Marcus asks about make up brands. Suzanne says she works with Colour me beautiful which is a colour based make up brand. She also no 7 recommends No 7. IN terms of make up for photo shoots, Suzanne says neutral is good, don’t go too bright. Chanel have a virtual lipstick app so you can try different colours of lipstick.   Marcus says working with a clothing stylist is great for a photographer. Sam says although adding a stylist adds cost to the shoot, it does add a lot of value.Marcus asks if Suzanne could share a women and a man she would like to work with. Suzanne says she’d love to work with Mary Berry. She thinks she could work with Mary’s make up. Suzanne says she’d love to work on Boris Johnson and tidy him up.

Pete is a New York headshot and portrait Photographer and musician. Peter started photography and music at the same time as a teenager. As a musician Pete is a Jazz musician. And he spent lots of time learning the music of the Jazz masters. He spent time working out bass lines of great jazz music. As you do this over time you start to absorb their work into your style and then develop your own style. And Pete then took this approach to photography. First he started working with New York headshot and portrait Photographer and musicians Peter started photography and music at the same time as a teenager. As a musician Pete is a Jazz musician. And he spent lots of time learning the music of the Jazz masters. He spent time working out bass lines of great jazz music. As you do this over time you start to absorb their work into your style and then develop your own style. And Pete then took this approach to photography. First he started working with Peter Hurley doing what Peter told him and absorbing his style. He then moved on to working with Ivan Weiss. Over time he has worked with others and used these to develop his own style. Sam asks how you can learn from a photographer at a distance if you can’t speak to them. Pete says he did this with Dan Winters and he did work on replicating one of his photographs, from the composition to the lighting to every other element. He says you will learn so much more from this than looking at it in a book. Marcus thinks that photographers don’t look at their history in the same way that musicians do. Pete says to be really good you need to go back and study the past masters before you can move forward with new style. He also says you can’t bypass this process. You can go back before photography and study art as well. Pete says he came into photography through mentorship, no training. This has become easier with digital technology so you can work with photographers in different parts of the world. Pete now coaches photographers himself and he has a Facebook group associated with this. They discuss the similarities between Spotify in music and stock libraries in photography. Pete thinks it’s best to avoid both as they are a very hard way to make money. Pete says professionalism is important both in music and photography. He has been at gigs where people turn up late, don’t dress appropriately and more. It’s important that you realise in both cases this is a business and you need to carefully think about that. He says some photographers don’t return peoples phone calls. That is bad practice, gives a bad impression and loses you work. Marcus suggests that like musicians concerts are an experience, a photoshoot should be an experience. Sam takes us back to the discussion about Spotify and Shutter Stock and says whenever you use a platform go in with your eyes wide open as that will always be making money for the platform rather than you. Sometimes the platform is useful enough to make it worthwhile but be aware of that the platform are getting from that. Marcus has a selection of Photographers who are musiciansMilt Hinton is one that Pete comes up with. He documented his life in images. Marcus's are: Ansel Adams was a concert pianist as well as a photographer Graham Nash from Crosby Stills and Nash is a photographer Brian Adams also became a photographer.doing what Peter told him and absorbing his style. He then moved on to working with

Marcus used film for fifteen years. He thinks using film will develop your technique. He says it is magical seeing your own photo being developed on a dark room. Film slows you down and makes you think. Also black and white film will make you appreciate black and white photography and help you with your digital black and white images.   If you want to buy a film camera they have got more expensive than they used to be as they are becoming popular with collectors. A film camera may be around £250. Marcus says films start at around £6 a roll. Marcus doesn’t see the point of using colour film for this. He thinks the key is using black and white and developing it yourself. Marcus says that Nikon F-Mounts mean that you can use modern lenses on an old body. That isn’t the same with all manufacturers. To develop film you also need some equipment and you can get this quite cheaply on ebay.   To develop an image the film needs to go into a light tight tank and have some chemicals added. After a few minutes the film will be developed. Marcus says this needs to be done in a light tight room or a bag. The rooms doesn’t have to be 100% dark. Marcus used to use his cupboard under the stairs at night.  After it’s developed the film is washed and then needs to be dried out. At this point the work can be done in light. Most of creativity is done when printing images, but there is some creative things you can do at this development stage. The rest of the work needs a dark room, but you can have a red light bulb so you can see what you are doing. You can use a room in your house or clubs and local colleges may have dark rooms you can use. You do need an enlarger which is a more expensive piece of kit. But you can rent them and get them second hand on ebay. Printing the image involves 3 trays, each with different chemicals in. Marcus used to do this on an ironing board. Once you start this process there is lots of things you can control, for example the contrast. There is then dodging and burning which is about making different parts of the image darker or lighter. You can actually add colour tints as well such as sepia. And then finally the paper choice itself makes a difference the end result. Marcus says the development process is an experience in itself which is worth doing. He says having to pay for every shot on the film makes you slow down and think carefully.

This week the guest is Christine Saunders. Christine is an art buyer, producer and business coach for professional photographers. She helps photographers curate their websites to show their best works and ultimately get more work. Sam asks what is Christine helping these photographers with and why are they coming to her? Christine says she helps photographers help them see themselves more as CEO of a business. Think about all of the departments the CEO of coca cola might have. Generally photographers are great at the creativity and often get help with the accounting side, but there is much more to business than this. Especially marketing. How to create a business plan a marketing plan where you are consistently reaching out to promote yourself. Christine says a marketing plan is a hugely important part of being seen and getting work. But she also works in all sorts of others areas of the business helping to develop this. So she isn’t an agent she is more like a business partner. Sam asks about target audience and how to decide who your target audience is. Christine says she does a lot of brain storming this with clients starting from the sort of photography they do and the sort of clients they want to work with. Christine doesn’t work with any particular genre of photographer, she more works with photographers filling gaps in their business. Christine says by the nature of being a creative photographers have sensitivities. Christine is asking them to reach out and be more visible, but many don’t feel happy doing that and so she supports them. Marcus asks how the market has changed for photographer since the start of the century. Back then there was no digital photography, no smart phones and no global campaigns. before different areas would run different campaigns from different photographers now it's more global. Getty has come in which has been good and bad for photographers. Some have thrived from this while others felt it has done a lot of damage. Marcus thinks a third one is the amount of people who are commercial photographers. Christine agrees that the number who are coming into the industry is very large. Sam asks if she helps photographers with pricing. She says that is something she helps with and she has stopped photographers not going in too low and to value themselves. Sometimes this means charging for extra things on top of the standard shoot fee. She says a lot of photographers do go in too low with price, but there is a balance here. She says it is also worth asking the client what budget they have. They won’t always tell you this and it can be challenging, but usually someone has a budget, but they won’t always share it with you. Marcus brings up licensing, being paid for the use of your images. He says in the US licensing is standard while this isn’t the case except in the very top of the market in the UK. Christine seems less sure about this. She says that in much of the work she does then these recurring fees are collected. She also says if people want usage of the images included then that should be done under restrictions, such as a five year limit. Sam asks how photographers who do hide behind the camera a little could start to come out of their shell. Christine says go to any industry events you can. Photo London has just been on. These are great places to get inspired. You can also often get a portfolio review at these events. Another thing they could do is send some emails to people they already know. Marcus asks what photographers can do to aim for the top of their industry. She says she sees a lot of talent and it feels like she is the only one who sees it. She says step out there. Showing your work to the world even if it imperfect is a lot better than only you and your Mum seeing it. Also remember this is a business. It always needs to be looked at as a business, you need to step into those other roles.