Departures with Robert Amsterdam

George F. Kennan is arguably the most important American diplomat of the modern era, whose "long telegram" and strategy of containment shaped the Cold War and postwar period. And yet, at critical moments later in his career, he was cast aside and shut out by the institutions he once led. In his new book, "Kennan: A Life Between Worlds," acclaimed historian Frank Costigliola draws attention to the very interesting and intimate details of his personal life and upbringing, drawing a much more complex and sometimes surprising portrait of America's top diplomat, bringing us inside his thinking and decision making experiences. In this podcast interview with host Robert Amsterdam, Costigliola explores the intricate web of politics, ideology, and personal struggles that shaped George F. Kennan's rise to prominence, and shares some of his thoughts about Kennan's policy visions which did not come to fruition, and what he might think of current global tensions.

As China and the U.S. increasingly compete for power in key areas of U.S. influence across the Middle East and African continent, competition has grown in linear succession, and is increasingly adversarial. Often cynical of Chinese involvement and intentions, the U.S. points to blunders of the Belt and Road initiative, fears of neocolonialism, and the support of nations of interest that might lead to the resurgence of terrorist groups, as justification for criticisms. But are Beijing's ambitions really so nefarious? In her new book, “China's Rise in the Global South: The Middle East, Africa, and Beijing's Alternative World Order,” Dawn Murphy posits that China’s growth in Africa and the Middle East in the post-cold war era, should be understood as evidence of its desire to develop an alternative world order that will allow China to interact with these two regions on its own terms; and that China is mostly cooperative with the liberal order—particularly within the security and military realms. In this podcast discussion with host Robert Amsterdam, Murphy highlights China's record as a business competitor, its foreign policy approach (including divergence in norms around corruption and political meddling), how its foreign policy plays out in public perception across the globe, and why US policy towards the country seems to remain mostly unchanged across administrations, even when ideologies vary greatly between Democratic and Republican administrations. 

There is no historical precedent for a former US president who is facing a more complicated web of both civil and criminal liabilities than Donald Trump, let alone for a former president who again intends to run in the upcoming election. To help sort through this mess and understand what the cases mean and what kind of risks they pose to his candidacy, Departures is pleased to welcome special guest Karen Friedman Agnifilo. Friedman Agnifilo is a deeply experienced lawyer, the host of the Legal AF podcast, a guest legal analyst for CNN and other media, and formerly served as Chief Assistant District Attorney of the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office.

Amid a slew of headlines highlighting Vladimir Putin's efforts to expand Russia's footprint in Africa since the beginning of the Ukraine war, a certain narrative is emerging regarding Moscow's aims, tactics, and results in this crucial but often neglected region. Is Russia's presence in Africa a threatening menace or merely an empty gesture? As it turns out, it is neither, argues Samuel Ramani, author of the excellent "Russia in Africa: Resurgent Great Power or Bellicose Pretender?" Emphasizing the long established playbook and historical memory of the Soviet Union's support of decolonization and anti-apartheid stance, Ramani speaks with Robert Amsterdam about the underpinnings of current Russian policy in Africa, based on cyclical themes abandonment and return. Beyond the recent high profile engagements of Wagner Group in countries such as the Central African Republic, Amsterdam and Ramani discuss the strategic shortcomings of Western sanctions policies, competition and cooperation with China, and intra-elite maneuvering following Yevgeny Prigozhin's criticism of Russian military leadership.

It takes a certain kind of person to become a collaborator for Axis powers during World War II - a level of self-delusion and survival instinct that is off the charts. In Ian Buruma's latest book, "The Collaborators," he paints in-depth portraits of three such figures - Felix Kersten (masseur to Heinrich Himmler and others in the Nazi elite), Yoshiko Kawashima (a cross-dressing Manchurian princess who spied for the Japanese) and Friedrich Weinreb (the “fixer” whose fellow Jews paid him to secure reprieves from deportation to concentration camps, only to be turned over to Nazi police). The strands that braid these individual's lives together often represent shocking moral failings - but also deeply human experiences. In his conversation with host Robert Amsterdam, Buruma describes how he approached the structure of writing the book, what drew him to these three seemingly disparate figures, and how often first tellings of history are shrouded in self-deception by the subjects which can translate to common misapprehensions of who they really were.

Democracy, in terms of its branding, has had a fairly rough decade. Numerous authors we have had on this podcast have highlighted and explained its global decline, discussed the expansion of nationalist movements which have eaten away at rule of law and institutional integrity, and the frustrating resilience of some of the world's most established authoritarian leaders, who seem to weather every storm keep their grip on power intact.  So it's such a refreshing change to pace to receive such a well researched and sharply argued case for optimism for the power of democracy to continue attracting those seeking freedom and opportunity from Charles Dunst in his new book, "Defeating the Dictators: How Democracy Can Prevail in the Age of the Strongman." Dunst, who is deputy director of research and analytics at The Asia Group and an adjunct fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), says that he approached his book with the goal of offering a tangible roadmap for combatting autocracy, focusing on practical and commonsense ways that US foreign policy (and foreign policies of other leading Western nations) can be marshalled toward producing better democratic outcomes. In this spirited discussion with Robert Amsterdam, Dunst explains how he sees immigration playing such a crucial role in helping democracies thrive, and how Washington, despite having to take a nuanced approach in dealing with allies which have hybrid qualities of both democracies and dictatorships, nevertheless has seen clear evidence of the enduring value of its soft power, continuing to be a promoter of rule of law, human rights, and equality. 

Before becoming one of the world's most recognizable heads of state, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky was a comic actor and entertainer, whose most famous show, "Servant of the People," imagined him in a role he would one day, unbelievably, come to hold in real life. But how was it possible for someone with so little political experience to unify and mobilize such an intense outpouring of patriotism of his fellow citizens and, arguably, the creation of a new Ukrainian civic identity in response to the Russian invasion? According to a new book by co-authors Olga Onuch and Henry Hale, Zelensky's rise is one that was paralleled by that of Ukraine's post-Soviet development as a culture and society. In many ways, the authors argue, it could be any Ukrainian president to wear this mantle, as it is a public force. Zelensky is “a product of a Ukrainian culture steeped in the same sense of civic national belonging and duty that he advocates, advances and now symbolizes.”  Henry Hale joins in conversation with Robert Amsterdam about this exciting new book and how they see the conflict playing out with some difficult realities on the horizon.

The gradual breakdown of the prevailing geopolitical order has brought to the fore numerous far right parties and politicians across Western democracy, bringing with them some very old (and very dangerous) tropes of anti-Semitism. In light of these frightening trends, it is more important than ever for us to confront the often difficult and challenging reality of the Holocaust, how this "irrational emotive energy" allowed it to happen, and also analyze some of the early signals that were ignored. On this week's episode of Departures, we're pleased to host the accomplished historian Dan Stone of the University of London, whose new book, "The Holocaust: An Unfinished History," takes the reader on a riveting journey into some of the most unforgettable narratives and archival findings, challenging many of the assumptions carried by most of us. In his conversation with Robert Amsterdam, Stone speaks at length about the Nazi's demonization of Jews as a some sort of root cause of modernity's problems, and how this absurd narrative took hold despite clear evidence of the Jewish community going through their own ideological and cultural splits over many of the same issues. A fascinating and fresh history of a well known but poorly understood dark period of history, Stone's book brings enlightening arguments with a clear and lucid voice.

The end of slavery in the United States was an arduously complex process, which beyond simply the issues surrounding cultural and social norms, not to mention the conflicts remaining at the end of the Civil War, the dismantling of established racist institutions began with critical cases going through the courts. In historian Kate Masur's new book, "Until Justice Be Done: America's First Civil Rights Movement, from the Revolution to Reconstruction," this history is explored with unprecedented detail and archival research, bringing to light the stories of the African American activists and their white allies, often facing mob violence, courageously built a movement to fight these racist laws. Discussing her book on the podcast with Robert Amsterdam, Masur explores the politically courageous pursuit of the 1866 Civil Rights Act and the Fourteenth Amendment by the Republican Party, and how the movement’s ideals became increasingly mainstream in the 1850s despite a series of rigged court decisions.

The story of the rise of Spanish dictator Francisco Franco in 1936 is often overshadowed by that of the country's civil war and its entanglement across the other major developments in Europe at the time. But Spanish fascism was also driven by an enduring set of beliefs - which were so thoroughly odious and absurd - that it is a significant challenge to unravel how so many came to support the dictatorship and permit its genocide. Sir Paul Preston is among the greatest living historians on this period in Spain, and the Departures podcast was fortunate to host him on a discussion of his most recent book, "Architects of Terror: Paranoia, Conspiracy and Anti-Semitism in Franco’s Spain." In his conversation with Robert Amsterdam, Preston explores the rather insane alleged scheme for world domination by a non-existent "Jewish-Masonic-Bolshevik Conspiracy," and how so many people bought into this false propaganda leading to the slaughter of half a million people. Despite the fact that Spain had only a tiny minority of Jews and Freemasons, Franco and his inner circle were ardent believers in this fabricated conspiracy and spread the notion that the survival of Catholic Spain. With this conspiracy, there were also the establishment's economic interests, which required the complete elimination of all Jews. A harrowing history of a hidden holocaust, Preston's book highlights how so much danger comes with disinformation, and how the most extreme ideologies can enter the mainstream.