
Work Better
Welcome to Work Better, the podcast where we think about work and ways to make it better.
Four overarching macro shifts are fundamentally changing work and will continue to alter the landscape for years to come. Some of these shifts have been building for years, while others seem to have happened all at once. It’s the magnitude of the change, along with the pace, that is uncharted territory. First, we’re living on screen. We’re spending more time collaborating on-screen than in-person. We have more meetings than ever and most people stay at their desk for video calls instead of going to a room to connect in person. No wonder people are feeling more lonely and isolated.
We’re in the middle of an AI supercycle – a period of dramatic growth and change. People are learning how to make AI their new co-workers. It’s changing jobs and the skills we need at a dizzying pace. Sometimes that pace can be overwhelming.
Meanwhile, the number of companies setting serious carbon reduction targets jumped 102% in one year. There’s a whole new mindset about sustainability. New types of jobs are being created, roles are changing, and people need new skills—essentially a culture change. It’s all good, but it’s a lot.
Another big shift is mental health, which is on everyone’s minds. For employers it’s even more top of mind than physical health. Gen Z is coming into the workforce with higher levels of anxiety and people of all ages feel like their work-life balance is getting worse.
With all the change around us, we need workplaces to be more like thriving communities. Because communities are both places and relationships. We need places that help us build connection, trust and a sense of shared purpose. By understanding how these shifts change behavior, we can create more resilient workplaces that build community and help people perform and feel better.
This season on Work Better, we’re sharing ideas about how work is changing and why we need community more than ever. Help us spread these ideas by sharing an episode with a friend or a colleague.
Work Better is brought to you by Steelcase, a global design and thought leader in the world of work. We help people do their best work by creating places that work better. Stay-up-to-date on design, insights and research to help people work better at steelcase.com/subscribe.
Latest episodes

Jun 12, 2023 • 39min
How to Go From Insight to Action with Laszlo Bock (S2:E8)
Leadership is complicated today. Managers are under pressure to deliver business results and create relationships with employees guided by empathy. This episode, we’re learning lessons from Google’s former head of People Operations about how the relationships between leaders and employees can improve one nudge at a time.
Laszlo Bock is co-founder and on the Board of Directors at Humu, a company designed to help managers create better routines and habits at scale. He previously led Google’s People Operations where he was responsible for attracting, developing and retaining “Googlers.” He’s the author of “Work Rules! Insights from Inside Google That Will Transform How You Live and Lead”. Laszlo gives us the inside track on Humu’s research into hybrid work and helps us with tips on how to go from insight to action.
After hearing from Laszlo, we’ll be joined by Isabel Medellin who focuses on talent attraction and retention, along with leading DEI efforts at Steelcase. She also works with Humu to develop leaders within Steelcase around the world.
Description:
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Humu by visiting https://www.humu.com/
- Learn more about Laszlo Bock’s book, Work Rules! https://www.workrules.net/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

Jun 5, 2023 • 35min
Gen Z: Power + Possibility with Jean Twenge (S2:E7)
Gen Z is on the cusp of being nearly 30% of the workforce. Today we’re talking about the power and possibility of the youngest generation at work. This is not a conversation about what’s right and what’s wrong with Gen Z. It’s about understanding – so we can all work better together.
We are joined by Dr. Jean Twenge. Jean has spent her entire academic career – 30 years – studying generational differences. She is professor of psychology at San Diego State University and has authored more than 180 scientific publications and books. Her most recent book which just came out is called “generations.” In many ways, this book is her magnum opus. Its analysis is derived from 21 huge datasets that go back to the 1940s and are as recent as this year, spanning some 38 million people. Jean is also the author of iGen and Generation Me.
After we hear from Jean, we’ll be joined by Keith Bujak who is a researcher at Steelcase and recently led work on Gen Z in the workplace.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Dr. Jean Twenge and her books: http://www.jeantwenge.com/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

May 29, 2023 • 36min
Learning Is a Social Event with Anya Kamenetz (S2:E6)
When the pandemic sent everyone home, many teachers and students struggled. And according to Anya Kamenetz, one of the biggest reasons is because learning is a social event. This episode of Work Better, we’re focused on the work happening in our classrooms. We’ll talk about how online and hybrid learning are impacting kids and teachers. Plus, share some inspiring success stories.
Anya speaks, writes, and thinks about how children learn, grow and thrive on a changing planet. She covered education for many years including for NPR, where she co-created the podcast Life Kit: Parenting. Her newest book is The Stolen Year: How Covid Changed Children’s Lives, And Where We Go Now. Before the pandemic, she wrote the book DIY U: Edupunks, Edupreneurs and the Coming Transformation of Higher Education. She also is currently an advisor to the Aspen Institute and a Co:Generate fellow working on a new initiative to end climate silence in children’s media.
Stick around after we hear from Anya because Andrew Kim, director of global research at Steelcase, will join us. Andrew will share why the physical environment makes such a difference to how we learn.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Anya Kamenetz and her book The Stolen Year: http://www.anyakamenetz.net/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

May 22, 2023 • 50min
Pop, Tech + Culture with Marcus Collins (S2:E5)
We’re all trying to influence how people behave, according to Dr. Marcus Collins, whether it’s what people buy, how they interact with one another or how they work. Marcus calls culture the biggest cheat code ever to influence human behavior. His work as an engineer, music maker and advertising guru with cultural influencers like Beyonce and Apple have put him on a path to become a leader in understanding how to harness the power of culture within organizations. His stories from the world of pop and tech will change how you see culture in the workplace.
Marcus now works as head of strategy at Wieden+Kennedy in New York and teaches at the Ross School of Business at the University of Michigan. He’s also the author of the new book For the Culture.
After our interview with Marcus, Robin Rosebrugh will join us. Robin is a workplace researcher who works with Steelcase as an architecture and design manager. She’s also one of the most well-read people you’ll ever meet. Robin will talk to us about how the places we work can help influence behavior and, ultimately, culture.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Marcus Collins and his book For the Culture at http://marctothec.com/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

May 15, 2023 • 36min
Be Happier at Work with Jenn Lim (S2:E4)
Who doesn’t want to be happier at work? Jenn Lim has dedicated her life to bringing more joy into the workplace.
Jenn is founder and author of Beyond Happiness. She is also CEO of Delivering Happiness which is a company she founded with Tony Hsieh, the late CEO of Zappos. In her book, she shares her “Greenhouse Model” for the workplace – it’s an idea she says leads to growth, purpose and business success.
After our conversation with Jenn, hear from Cherie Johnson – director of global design at Steelcase about how design can help us create happier places at work.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Jenn Lim and her book Beyond Happiness at https://jennlim.com/
- Learn more about Jenn’s company Delivering Happiness at https://www.deliveringhappiness.com/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

May 8, 2023 • 41min
How Your Brain Makes Friends with Robin Dunbar (S2:E3)
You are more likely to stay at your job if you have a best friend at work. You are also more likely to learn from a peer at work than your boss. Relationships in the workplace are really important. But as work changes, our relationships are changing too.
Robin Dunbar, one of the world’s leading experts on friendship, will help us explore how relationships are changing in the era of hybrid work and what we need to know to make work more enjoyable. Robin is an anthropologist and evolutionary psychologist who specializes in human behavior at the University of Oxford. His most recent book is called Friends: Understanding the Power of Our Most Important Relationships. He’s famous for something called the Dunbar Number – which is how many relationships our brains can manage.
After our conversation with Robin, hear from Dr. Tracy Brower, vice president of workplace insights at Steelcase. She will help us understand how the workplace can help support some of the ideas Robin has about building and maintaining relationships.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Robin Dunbar: https://www.psy.ox.ac.uk/people/robin-dunbar -
- Robin Dunbar’s book, Friends: Understanding the Power of Our Most Important Relationships (https://www.amazon.com/Friends-Understanding-Power-Important-Relationships-ebook/dp/B08W4XPK7G)
- Robin Dubar Article, You Can Only Have So Many Close Friends (https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2021/05/robin-dunbar-explains-circles-friendship-dunbars-number/618931/)
- Dr. Tracy Brower’s article, Making Friends Is Hard But Work Can Help (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tracybrower/2022/10/05/new-study-making-friends-is-hard-but-work-can-help/)
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

Apr 28, 2023 • 37min
Learning Is the New Pension with Heather McGowan (S2:E2)
If you’re like most of us these days, a pension is not in the cards. Today’s guest says not to worry – Heather McGowan has a different idea about how to have a great future at work.
Heather is a future-of-work strategist and author. Her new book called “The Empathy Advantage: Leading the Empowered Workforce” was just released.
Heather says there are five elements that make up what she calls the “Great Reset”. She shares those with us – along with why she says “learning is the new pension.”
After our conversation with Heather, Noga Lasser will join us. Noga is director of design at Steelcase and will help us connect Heather’s ideas to designing a better workplace.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Heather McGowan and her new book https://heathermcgowan.com/
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

Apr 25, 2023 • 52min
Conflict, Communication + Discomfort with Amy Gallo (S2:E1)
The adoption of hybrid work has changed a lot of things – not just where and when you work, but also our relationships at work. How we build them. How we nurture them. And how we sustain them. Those relationships at work are really important to how we feel about our overall experience.
Amy Gallo is joining us to give us tips on how to rebuild our relationships at work – even the most difficult ones. She’s the author of Getting Along: How to Work with Anyone (Even Difficult People). Amy also co-hosts a podcast for the Harvard Business Review called Women at Work. And she is contributing editor at Harvard Business Review, where she writes about workplace dynamics.
After our conversation with Amy, hear from Jessie Storey – director of design at Steelcase about how design can help with the things Amy talks about – like conflict, communication and discomfort.
Additional resources:
- Be part of our community at steelcase.com/subscribe. Get the latest workplace design, insights and research sent to your inbox.
- You can find transcripts at www.steelcase.com/podcasts (Read today’s transcript)
- Learn more about Amy Gallo and her book: (http://www.amyegallo.com/)
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

Dec 5, 2022 • 37min
Change Community and Your Company (S1:E8)
Thinking about our communities outside of our office walls can actually strengthen our communities inside the workplace. In this episode, we talk to Kenny Clewett, a leader with Ashoka based in Spain. Ashoka is a global organization with a mission to mobilize a movement where everyone is a changemaker in the world. Kenny shares how organizations can find changemakers. What makes them so special and valuable to companies? And why being a changemaker can help people and organizations have a better experience at work.
After hearing from Kenny, Kinga Pakucs, Steelcase learning consultant, joins us from Munich. She has led community projects through the Steelcase Changemakers global program and provides us with a valuable perspective on how to apply these ideas to the workplace.
Additional resources:
Find out more about Ashoka (https://www.ashoka.org/en-us)
Learn more and be a part of the Steelcase Better Futures Community (https://www.steelcase.com/press-releases/steelcase-launches-better-futures-community/)
Article: How Partners Unlock Potential and Ignite Impact (https://fellowship-europe.ashoka.org/interview-partnerships-for-impact-new)
Steelcase Impact Report 2022 (https://www.steelcase.com/discover/steelcase/esg-overview/#impact-report-2022): Read more about our commitment to people + planet
Get the latest workplace design, insights and research: www.steelcase.com/subscribe
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.

Nov 28, 2022 • 39min
Return to Office Is Like Returning From Deployment (S1:E7)
Lt. Col. Adria Horn shares a unique perspective on talent and turnover, and draws interesting parallels between returning to the office and returning from deployment. She serves in the U.S. Army Reserve and is executive vice president of workforce for Tilson Technology Management. She contributed to a McKinsey article called “A Military Veteran Knows Why Your Employees Are Leaving” after disagreeing with a widely-shared theory that employers just didn’t know what employees want. She’ll explain what she thinks is really going on and how she coaches her leaders to think about what people are experiencing at work right now.
Lt. Col. Horn has been in the military for 21 years after graduating from West Point in June 2001. After September 11, 2001, she was commissioned as a military police officer, deployed three times and then switched to psychological operations while in Afghanistan. She’s stayed on active duty for about 11 years and has had five total deployments in that time frame.
To conclude our conversation, we will be joined by Nadia Johnson, director of leadership and adaptive teams at Steelcase. Nadia will help us think through how Lt. Col. Horn’s ideas can be applied to our day-to-day work.
Additional resources:
A Military Veteran Knows Why Your Employees Are Leaving, (https://www.mckinsey.com/capabilities/people-and-organizational-performance/our-insights/a-military-veteran-knows-why-your-employees-are-leaving) McKinsey
Get the latest workplace design, insights and research: www.steelcase.com/subscribe
Work Better podcast is hosted by Chris Congdon. Produced by Rebecca Charbauski. Creative art direction by Erin Ellison and Emily Cowdrey. Technical support by Mark Caswell and Jose Jimenez. Digital publishing by Areli Arellano and Jordan Marks. Editing and sound mixing by SoundPost Studios.