

The Conversation
BBC World Service
Two women from different parts of the world, united by a common passion, experience or expertise, share the stories of their lives.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Sep 24, 2018 • 27min
Women Defying Bans in Iran and Saudi Arabia
What is it like to put yourself in danger fighting for your rights as a woman? Kim Chakanetsa unites two women from Iran and Saudi Arabia, who decided to defy their governments' discriminatory laws - and suffered huge personal sacrifices as a result.In Iran women must cover their hair in public, according to the dress rule enforced after the Revolution in 1979. Masih Alinejad says she began to defy this compulsory wearing of the hijab as a teenager and continued to question it from within Iran until it became too dangerous for her to stay. In 2014, Masih posted a picture of herself uncovered online and the My Stealthy Freedom movement began, encouraging ordinary Iranian women to share photos of themselves without the headscarf. Now living in the US, Masih says she suffers abuse, death threats and hasn't seen her parents for nine years, but the truly brave ones are the women in Iran who risk arrest defying this discriminatory law. Masih's book is The Wind in My Hair - My Fight for Freedom in Modern Iran.Manal al-Sharif's rebellion began when she got behind the wheel of a car in Saudi Arabia in 2011. Whilst there was no formal ban, it was not legal for women to drive at that time. Manal was driving her own car but was arrested and imprisoned. After her release she continued the campaign she had co-founded #Women2Drive, which led to the loss of her job and eventually leaving the country. On June 24th 2018, the ban on women driving in Saudi was lifted. However women's rights activists continue to be arrested and Manal, who now lives in Australia, says she no longer feels safe to go back. This means she cannot see her elder son who is not allowed to leave the country to visit her. Manal's memoir is Daring to Drive - The Young Saudi Woman Who Stood up to a Kingdom of Men.Image: (L) Manal al-Sharif. Credit: Manal al-Sharif (R) Masih Alinejad. Credit: Kambiz Foroohar

Sep 17, 2018 • 27min
The women plumbers changing the trade
Two female plumbers on what puts women off from entering the industry, the messy reality of the job and the joy of solving problems with your hands.Judaline Cassidy has worked on the pipes of some of New York City's most iconic buildings in a career that has spanned two decades. She grew up in Trinidad & Tobago and came to plumbing because she didn't have enough money to go to law school. But she fell in love with the profession and has become a passionate advocate for women in trades. Judaline is also the founder of Tools & Tiaras, an organisation which runs workshops and summer camps to encourage young girls to take up careers in the construction industry.Hattie Hasan has been a plumber for more than 25 years. When she decided to train as a plumber, she was the only female student in her entire college. Later, she couldn't find a job - no one would take her on - so she set up on her own company in the North of England. She also started a network of female plumbers in the UK that has since become a franchise business, trading under the name Stopcocks. She says she still regularly comes across stories of sexist behaviour, which put a lot of women off from entering the industry, but she hopes that things are changing.Produced by Joanna Impey for BBC World Service.(Image: (L) Judaline Cassidy. Credit: Jena Cumbo; (R) Hattie Hasan. Credit: Nicola Tree)

Sep 10, 2018 • 27min
Women winning the Nobel Prize for Medicine
Just 12 women have won the Nobel Prize for Physiology or Medicine since it was founded in 1901. Kim Chakanetsa brings together two of these female Nobel Laureates - both extraordinary scientists from Norway and France.Professor May-Britt Moser won the prize in 2014 for the discovery of a type of cell in the brains of rats, which helps them locate their position in space. She won the prize jointly with her former husband Edvard, with whom she had collaborated since they were students. Now divorced, they still run a world-renowned neuroscience lab - the Kavli Institute - together in the far north of Norway, where they are pursuing research that could further our understanding and treatment of Alzheimer's in humans.Professor Françoise Barré-Sinoussi was a researcher at the Institut Pasteur in Paris in the early 1980s when a new and terrifying disease emerged - AIDS. She and her colleague very quickly identified the HIV retrovirus as the cause, and set about finding a treatment. In 2008 she was recognised by the Nobel committee for this achievement, and she says this has opened doors for her work that otherwise would have remained closed - enabling her to better advocate on behalf of the vulnerable people most affected by HIV-AIDS.Image:
(L) Francoise Barré-Sinoussi. Credit: Institut Pasteur
(R) May-Britt Moser. Credit: TiTT Melhuus

Sep 3, 2018 • 27min
Female Computer Pioneers
The lost role of women in the development of the computer industry is brought into focus by an internet pioneer and a computer historian.Radia Perlman is an American computer programmer often described as the 'Mother of the Internet' for her invention of the spanning-tree protocol, an algorithm which allowed early networks to cope with large amounts of data. She describes it as a 'simple hack' and it is still in use today.Tilly Blyth is Head of Collections and Principal Curator at the Science Museum. She specialises in the history of computing and is particularly interested in the lost role women played within that history. She has curated an exhibition on Ada Lovelace, a 19th century trailblazer of science.Image: (L) Tilly Blyth and (R) Radia Perlman
Credit: (L) Science Museum Group Collection and (R) Andrew Tanenbaum

Aug 27, 2018 • 28min
Young African Authors
Two award-winning African writers sit down with Kim Chakanetsa to talk race, gender and getting published in your early 20s.Nigerian author Chibundu Onuzo started writing her first book aged 17, became the youngest woman ever to sign to her publishing house at 19, and released her first novel, The Spider King’s Daughter, at the age of 21. Chibundu is based in London and her second book is called Welcome to Lagos. Panashe Chigumadzi is a Zimbabwean-born novelist and essayist. Raised in South Africa, she is the author of a novel Sweet Medicine and These Bones Will Rise Again in which she examines Zimbabwean history through the lives of her grandmothers.(L) Panashe Chigumadzi (credit: Jodi Bieber)
(R ) Chibundu Onuzo (credit: Blayke Images)

Aug 20, 2018 • 27min
Ending Child Marriage
Is it possible to end child marriage in a generation? Kim Chakanetsa brings together two women working to make it a thing of the past in Malawi and in the United States.Memory Banda's sister was just 11 when she was forced to marry the man who'd made her pregnant. Determined not to have the same fate, Memory persuaded local leaders in Malawi to change their minds about this cultural practise and then - still a teenager - she successfully campaigned for the government to raise the marriage age to 18 across the country in 2015. Memory says that she faced a big backlash but she felt she had to speak out when she saw how traumatic the practice was for girls in her community. Trevicia Williams came out of school one day and was told by her mother that she was going to be married. Trevicia was 14. Her prospective husband - whom she hardly knew - was 26. It took her three years to escape the marriage. Trevicia says education was her key to surviving the experience. Now a doctor of psychology, she empowers individuals and families to build strong healthy relationships and prevent social issues like child marriage. Trevicia's testimony was key to her state of Texas changing the law to outlaw marriage under the age of 18, in 2017.(L) Dr Trevicia Williams (credit: Trevicia Williams)
(R ) Memory Banda (credit: Bensam)

Aug 13, 2018 • 27min
Crowning The Queens
Can hats be liberating for women? Nelufar Hedayat brings together a hatmaker to the British Queen and a turban designer to Beyoncé. Rachel Trevor-Morgan is a London based milliner who has been making hats for the Queen for over a decade. As well as royalty she also sells to top fashion retailers, and thinks it's a shame that we don’t wear hats as much as we used to. Rachel is not trying to push the boundaries of fashion with her hats - she says her mission is to make her clients look classically feminine and glamorous. Donia Allegue Walbaum is a French luxury fashion designer whose turbans have been commissioned by Beyoncé, including for the video for her latest single. She's aiming to reinvent this age-old headpiece in a modern way, and says it's the ultimate accessory. Many of her clients also wear them to cover their heads for religious reasons, or even in the case of illness.Image: Turban designer Donia Allegue Walbaum and milliner Rachel Trevor-Morgan donning their designs
(L) Donia Allegue Walbaum. Credit: Laurent Mauger
(R) Rachel Trevor-Morgan. Credit: Catherine Harbour

Aug 6, 2018 • 28min
Women in Translation
Can translating a book be a feminist act? Kim Chakanetsa brings together two female translators from Egypt and the UK who explain why it matters that more women, and particularly more feminists, are translating texts into Arabic and English.Emily Wilson is the first woman to translate Homer's The Odyssey into English. She says she often found sexist language in previous translations by men which did not actually exist in the original ancient Greek. She believes that all translators have an agenda, but calling a translation feminist can marginalise it. Emily is currently Professor of Classics at the University of Pennsylvania. Hala Kamal is a Professor of English and Gender Studies at Cairo University. She teaches on the topic of 'feminist translation' and translates classic feminist texts into Arabic so that students who cannot speak English can still access feminist theory. She thinks feminist voices have been lost and neglected, so she considers translating feminist writers as a form of activism.(L) Hala Kamal (credit: Sharif Sidahmed)
(R) Emily Wilson (credit: Kyle Cassidy)

Jul 30, 2018 • 27min
Banishing body shame
Body shaming is discrimination against 'non-perfect' bodies and it is usually directed at women. Kim Chakanetsa sits down with a Danish comedian and a British blogger who are challenging society's perceptions of a beautiful female body.Chidera Eggerue - aka The Slumflower - is a British blogger whose hashtag #saggyboobsmatter started an online movement, empowering women who were considering plastic surgery and breast-feeding mothers to love their breasts. Through her public profile, she tackles the absence of positive representation of black women's bodies, bullying and insecurity.Sofie Hagen is an award-winning Danish comedian and fat activist. As a chubby child, she was forced to go on diets, which she says led to her hating her body and was detrimental to her mental health. At university Sofie met a fat activist who changed her life. She then co-started a campaigning group in Denmark, Fedfront, and talks a lot about fatness in her comedy. She says that on a good day she will only receive 100 death threats because of her weight and gender.Image: (L): Chidera Eggerue. Credit: Tom Oldham
Image: (R): Sofie Hagen. Credit: Karla Gowlett

Jul 23, 2018 • 27min
Star Chefs
The professional kitchen is often seen as a place where bravado, machismo and sexism are standard. Kim Chakanestsa brings together two top female chefs to ask why there are so few women in the industry - and what if anything is holding women back?Dominique Crenn is a French chef living and working in San Francisco. She has two Michelin stars at her restaurant 'Atelier Crenn' - the first woman in North America to do so. In 2017 she also won the Best Female Chef in the World award - although she called the very idea of the accolade 'stupid' and questioned whether it was really the best way to promote women in the industry. In her own kitchen Dominique aims to support women by creating an environment in which people feel secure and where bullying is not tolerated.Skye Gyngell won a Michelin Star unexpectedly, when she was running a garden centre café in leafy south-west London. But she says the honour was a mixed blessing and meant customers turned up with unrealistic expectations. She's now moved on to start her own restaurant called Spring. Skye was classically trained as a chef in France, before working in fine-dining restaurants in London. She says her early experiences of the professional kitchen were sexist and terrifying, but that she loves cooking and hopes that by promoting more women the industry will change.Image: (L) Dominique Crenn by Matt Edge (R) Skye Gyngell by Carol Sachs