

The Conversation
BBC World Service
Two women from different parts of the world, united by a common passion, experience or expertise, share the stories of their lives.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 11, 2019 • 28min
Women undercover
What is it really like to go undercover as a woman? Our two guests set out to better understand the sex trafficking trade, and to gain deeper insight into life in North Korea. Suki Kim and Mimi Chakarova talk to Kim Chakanetsa about how they did it, and the challenges they faced.Suki Kim is an investigative journalist and novelist who was born and raised in South Korea. Her bestselling 2014 book, 'Without You, There Is No Us', describes the six months she spent undercover in Pyongyang, teaching the sons of North Korea’s elite at a private university, in the final days of Kim Jong-il’s reign. She says that when the book came out she was surprised by the reaction of her fellow journalists, who chose to focus on what they saw as her 'deception and lies' rather than the unique insights she had gathered on this highly secretive society.Bulgarian-American photographer and filmmaker Mimi Chakarova posed as a sex worker to investigate how women are trafficked in Europe and the Middle East for her 2011 documentary, 'The Price of Sex'. She says going undercover was terrifying, but it was the only way as a woman she could access brothels and sex clubs. Her brief forays covertly filming in those places gave her some idea of what life was like for the women who had been sold into that world. Mimi's most recent project, Still I Rise, celebrates people who persevere in spite of their struggles.Image:
L - Mimi Chakarova Credit: Stefania Rousselle
R - Suki Kim Credit: Ed Kashi VII

Feb 4, 2019 • 28min
Women Shaking Up Universities
What difference does it make when women run universities? There are many higher education leaders who champion the idea of diversity, but few of them truly embody it, so the view from the top is still largely pale and male. Kim Chakanetsa talks to two women who are shaking things up in their institutions in the United States and Ecuador.Ana Mari Cauce is the first woman, the first Latina and the first openly gay president of the University of Washington in Seattle, US. She says it’s important to remember that universities began as monastic institutions built with men in mind, and she often finds that they still struggle to adapt to the presence of women.Cecilia Paredes Verduga is the first female Rector of the highest-ranking public university in Ecuador, ESPOL (Escuela Superior Politecnica del Litoral). With a background in the male-dominated field of engineering and in a country with a culture of machismo, Cecilia feels it's important to be herself in the role and to say things as they are.L Cecilia Paredes Verduga (credit: Jose Javier Roldos)
R Ana Mari Cauce (credit: University of Washington)

Jan 28, 2019 • 28min
I Was Put into Care
What’s it like to grow up away from your family? Two women who spent part of their childhoods in care tell Kim Chakanetsa how they look back on that time, and how the experience has shaped them as adults.As a child, Rukhiya Budden experienced terrible neglect and abuse growing up in an orphanage in Kenya. Today she campaigns for orphanages to be abolished worldwide, as she believes such institutions can never provide the level of care that children really need.Following her mother’s death, Hayley Kemp was left at a children's home by her father, who had told her they were going to the dentist’s; she was eight years old. She remembers her year in the home as the happiest time in her childhood. She says that growing up in care has drawn her to work with refugees, as she finds it easy to empathise with their sense of displacement.(L) Image and credit: Hayley Kemp
(R) Rukhiya Budden (credit: Hope and Homes for Children)

Jan 21, 2019 • 28min
Female Fury
What is making women angry, and can that rage be channelled for good? Kim Chakanetsa speaks to feminist writers from South Africa and the US. US writer and media critic Soraya Chemaly says women across the world have a right to be angry. Their rights are undermined, they're routinely underpaid and belittled. But from an early age girls are also taught to suppress their anger and calm themselves down when fired up. She says women need to learn to embrace rage as a tool for positive change. Soraya recently published a book called Rage Becomes Her: The Power of Women’s Anger.Dela Gwala is a South African activist and writer, who found feminism in the aftermath of being sexually assaulted. Her white-hot rage at the victim-blaming she faced fuelled her campaigning. It was only when that anger ran out a couple of years later that she says she realised she needed to confront and deal with her other emotions. Dela recently contributed to an anthology called Feminism Is: South Africans Speak Their Truth.L - Dela Gwala (credit: Dela Gwala)
R - Soraya Chemaly (credit: Karen Sayre)

Jan 14, 2019 • 27min
The Women Who Plan Luxury Parties
Taking event planning to another level, from supplying bespoke flip flops to conjuring unforgettable scents and flying a plane filled with flowers into the desert, two luxury party planners working in Ibiza and Kuwait reveal the secrets of their trade. Their work demands a keen eye for detail and an endless ability to manage vast budgets and the sometimes outlandish expectations of the rich and famous, all while keeping a cool head. Serena Cook is the founder of Deliciously Sorted, a firm that organises birthday bashes, corporate events and bohemian weddings for the rich and famous in Ibiza. Her A-List clients include George Clooney, Katy Perry and Johnny Depp.When Bibi Hayat first started her event planning business she was the only woman doing so in Kuwait City. Through her company Bibi Hayat Events and Design, she has established herself as the person to dial if you are looking to create a memorable bespoke event. Produced by Sarah Kendal for BBC World ServiceBibi Hayat (l) Credit: Bayan Al-Sadiq
Serena Cook (r) Credit: Mar Photography

Jan 7, 2019 • 27min
Female football agents
Is being an agent to female soccer players different from representing men? Kim Chakanetsa speaks with two female football agents from the UK and France who have male and female clients. They handle everything from tough salary negotiations and sponsorship deals to the all-important image management.Jennifer Mendelewitsch was the only woman out of 400 agents in France when she qualified 15 years ago. She has built a reputation as a fearsome negotiator and describes herself as part-mother part-friend to her clients, especially the young male players. She says her biggest challenge is getting them to understand the potential repercussions of over-sharing on social media for their future careers.Georgie Hodge is a former player turned agent to the UK's emerging female football stars. She says while the salaries women players can command are still nothing like the men's, major sponsors are finally waking up to their value as brand ambassadors. Because the women's game is still building, Georgie says her players want to positively represent the whole sport, not just worry about their own careers.(Image: (L) Jennifer Mendelewitsch and (R) Georgie Hodge)

Dec 31, 2018 • 28min
Women Styling Bollywood and Hollywood
A floor-length gown, a strong pose and hundreds of flashing cameras: Kim Chakanetsa brings together the women behind the glamour, making actors and models look good on the red carpet, on stage and even on the street. They are stylists working for some of the most photographed women in Bollywood and Hollywood. How does fashion shape these celebrities' careers, and how do they handle the scrutiny and criticism their clients can receive?Tanya Ghavri is one of Bollywood's busiest stylists. With a decade of experience in the business, Tanya has styled India’s A-list including the actors Kareena Kapoor, Frieda Pinto and Katrina Kaif. Tanya says traditionally Indian designs tend to gain more traction on social media, but Western styles and brands are all over the high street. Some of Tanya's celebrity clients have faced a backlash for wearing more revealing outfits. Emma Watson, Chrissy Teigen and Chanel Iman are among the stars Anita Patrickson has dressed. She grew up on a farm in South Africa and is now an established stylist based in Los Angeles. She began her career working for Condé Nast, and now styles editorial and advertising campaigns as well as the red carpet. She says while her work is focused on making her client look fabulous and feel comfortable, it is also about developing a strategic relationship with a brand.L: Tanya Ghavri (credit: Neha Chandrakant)
R: Anita Patrickson (credit: JSquared)

Dec 24, 2018 • 28min
Parkour women: The city is my playground
Gaining freedom and strength from your everyday environment. The sport of parkour involves moving around urban obstacles as quickly as possible. Athletes run up walls, scale fences, and jump between roofs. Two female parkour enthusiasts tell Kim Chakanetsa what this sport gives them in areas where women can feel unsafe in the streets.Reem El-Taweel is a parkour athlete from Egypt, living in Dubai. She says when she was living in Egypt it was tough to train because of the street harassment she faced. When she first started she was the only girl, but now more girls are getting into it. She moved to Dubai to follow her dreams and become an assistant parkour coach. She says as a hijabi athlete she is also breaking a stereotype. Silke Sollfrank is a professional parkour athlete from Munich. Her gymnastic background allowed her to quickly develop her own playful style of movement, which has attracted a lot of attention in the parkour scene. She has more than 20k followers on Instagram and landed a spot on Netflix's intense obstacle course series Ultimate Beastmaster, where she was the last female finalist. Silke is the only female athlete in her parkour team.Left: Reem El-Taweel (credit: Katy Vickers)
Right: Silke Sollfrank (credit: Matthias Voß)

Dec 17, 2018 • 27min
War Through A Woman’s Lens
As a conflict photographer you need bravery, passion and an ability to bear witness to unimaginable horror. Kim Chakanetsa brings together two women who are exceptional photojournalists and asks do female photographers look at conflict differently?
The American photographer Lynsey Addario is one of very few women on the frontline, documenting major wars and humanitarian crises around the world. During her career she has been kidnapped twice, but despite the toll on her personal life, she remains committed to revealing the cost of war. Though she says she has received criticism for working while pregnant, being a woman has given her unique access to the lives of women in war zones. Her work has garnered her numerous awards and she was part of the New York Times team that won the prestigious Pulitzer Prize in 2009. Her most recent book is called Of Love and War and is her first published collection of photographs.
Poulomi Basu is an Indian documentary photographer who has been described as a visual activist for her fearless examination of systemic injustices. Her lens focuses on stories that often go ignored or underreported, particularly those of women in isolated communities and conflict zones. She says it is important to bring the perspectives of women of colour to photojournalism. Her images have appeared in a wide range of publications and she has received a number of photography awards, including a Magnum Foundation Award and a National Geographic Grant. Image: Poulomi Basu by Flora Thomas (L) Lynsey Addario by Nichole Sobecki (R)

Dec 10, 2018 • 27min
Women Opening Up Classical Music
Why is classical music still so male and pale, and what can be done about it? Kim Chakanetsa talks to two leading female musicians who are working to challenge the status quo and open up orchestras to more women and people of colour.Of Nigerian-Irish parentage, Chi-chi Nwanoku realised that 30 years into an illustrious career as a double-bassist she was still one of vanishingly few non-white faces on the classical music stage. So in 2015 she started Chineke!, Europe’s first majority-black and minority ethnic orchestra. Her project is already bearing fruit, with one of her members Sheku Kanneh-Mason, playing solo at the wedding of Prince Harry and Meghan Markle.Mei-Ann Chen is a conductor from Taiwan, and Musical Director at the Chicago Sinfonietta - a professional orchestra founded in the 1980s to showcase the talent of African American and Latino musicians. As well as insisting on diversity in her orchestra and the music they play, Mei-Ann is passionate about opening up the overwhelmingly male-dominated world of conducting to more women, and says she would never have succeeded without a female mentor. You heard extracts from:Dances in the Canebrakes by Florence Price, performed by the Chicago Sinfonietta conducted by Mei-Ann Chen, which will be included on a new CD released in March 2019 on Cedille Records.The second movement of Dvorak's Ninth Symphony in E Minor "From the New World" performed by the Chineke! Orchestra, conducted by Kevin John Edusei. Available on Hyperion Records.(L) Image and credit: Mei-Ann Chen
(R) Image: Chi-chi Nwanoku (credit: Eric Richmond)