

The Conversation
BBC World Service
Two women from different parts of the world, united by a common passion, experience or expertise, share the stories of their lives.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 11, 2020 • 26min
Nurses on the frontline
Nurses risking their lives to treat coronavirus patients. Hospitals around the world - and in particular Intensive Care Units - have been described as the frontline of the pandemic. It's there that the sickest Covid19 patients are looked after round-the-clock by highly specialised nurses. Kim Chakanetsa talks to two of them at the height of the current outbreak.Hannah Gray is a 23-year-old nurse working in an Intensive Care Unit at a major London hospital. Her unit has rapidly expanded to accommodate extra patients, and all the staff are getting used to working in full PPE or Personal Protective Equipment. Hannah has been documenting her experiences on her blog, The Corona Lisa. Bianca Dintino is a 26-year-old critical care nurse based at Tufts Medical Center in Boston. She was among the first to volunteer to work with coronavirus patients when they started arriving at her hospital in mid-March. She describes the camaraderie that has developed among her co-workers.Image:
(l) Bianca Dintino (credit: Anne Marie)
(r) Hannah Gray (credit: Simi Sebastian)

Apr 13, 2020 • 27min
The vagina myths
The vagina: separating myth from fact. Kim Chakanetsa and her two expert guests examine a part of the body that's often shrouded in mystery and shame.Dr Jen Gunter has been described as the world's most famous gynaecologist, and is also known as a fierce critic of the multi-million dollar wellness industry. The Canadian-American author of The Vagina Bible says 'Weaponizing women’s bodies is profitable' and believes companies are making money out of women's fears about their genitals. She wants to empower instead by debunking the myths and health misconceptions.Dr Susan Adongo Meme is an obstetrician and gynaecologist at Kenyatta National Hospital in Kenya. She says most women don't know that the place they urinate from is not the same place they menstruate from. Cultural taboos mean they are not encouraged to even look 'down there' and there's a general belief that the vagina is unclean. Potentially harmful douching is therefore widespread - as it is in other parts of the world, including the US.IMAGE
L: Dr Susan Adongo Meme (credit Dr Susan Adongo Meme)
R: Dr Jen Gunter (credit Jason LeCras)

Apr 6, 2020 • 27min
Endurance cyclists
Riding across continents in some of the world's toughest cycle races. Kim Chakanetsa talks to two women who've used their reserves of physical and mental strength. Fiona Kolbinger was the winner of the Transcontinental Race in 2019. She crossed Europe, from Bulgaria to France - a distance of 4000km - in ten days two hours and 48 minutes. She beat the second closest rider, a man, by almost six hours. She says when a part of her was in pain she focused on the bits of her body that had hurt yesterday but had got better, knowing that something different would hurt tomorrow!Emily Chappell worked as a cycle courier in London before developing a taste for long distance adventures, cycling from Wales across Asia to Japan. In her first Transcontinental Race in 2015 she made it only halfway, waking up suddenly on her back in a field, floored by the physical and mental exertion. The following year she was the first woman to cross the line - two days ahead of the other female competitors. She says these cycling challenges make her feel powerful and confident in all aspects of life and more women should give it a go.Image
(L) Emily Chappell (credit: Kristian Pletten)
(R) Fiona Kolbinger (credit: James Robertson)

Apr 1, 2020 • 27min
How to be a good man
Two women from South Africa and Australia discuss ‘toxic masculinity’ with Kim Chakanetsa. How can we raise boys to be in touch with their emotions and to become men who respect women?Clementine Ford is an Australian feminist whose books Fight Like A Girl and Boys Will Be Boys challenge traditional gender stereotyping. She regularly receives death and rape threats from people who accuse her of being a man-hater. She actually believes that a patriarchal society can be as damaging for men as for women. With a young son herself, she wants to see boyhood redefined to include sensitivity, kindness, respect and nurture.Sisonke Msimang is a South African writer whose work focuses on race, gender and democracy. Having lived in many different countries, she says that all societies allow and even expect men to be violent and predatory. She wants to dismantle this, but believes the term toxic masculinity is not helpful if you want to take the majority of people with you. Sisonke's memoir is called Always Another Country.IMAGE
Clementine Ford (credit Clementine Ford)
Sisonke Msimang (credit Nick White)

Mar 23, 2020 • 27min
Women changing jazz
Female jazz musicians speaking out about sexism and harassment in the improvised music world. While jazz singers like Ella Fitzgerald and Billie Holiday are iconic figures, female instrumentalists and composers have struggled to get the recognition they deserve. Kim Chakanetsa speaks to two women addressing this inequality and promoting female performers.A recipient of the MacArthur Genius Award, Regina Carter is a highly regarded jazz violinist who blends musical genres from jazz, R&B and Latin to classical, pop and African. She’s Artistic Director of the New Jersey Performing Arts All Female Jazz Residency, which supports aspiring women jazz professionals. Issie Barratt is an award-winning British jazz composer, conductor, baritone sax player and producer. She’s recently formed an all-female ensemble called Interchange, championing the creativity of women improvisers and composers. She founded the Jazz faculty at Trinity Laban College of Music and is a trustee for the Women’s Jazz Archive.IMAGE CREDITS:
Issie Barratt [Rob Shiret/BBC]
Regina Carter [Christopher Drukker]

Mar 16, 2020 • 27min
Young women striking for climate change
The Swedish schoolgirl Greta Thunberg may be the most well known, but climate change protests around the world are being led by young women. Activists from Uganda and Belgium tell Kim Chakanetsa why they are building huge movements in their countries.Hilda Flavia Nakabuye, a 22 year old Ugandan college student, has been protesting since 2017. She realized climate change was the cause of droughts affecting her family’s ability to grow food. In 2019 she set up #FridaysForFuture Uganda, and spoke at an international summit, saying 'I joined other young people all over the globe to protect our future. Through endless fights and sleepless nights, we hustle our way. Because this is our future.'Teenager Anuna De Wever Van Der Heyden led 35,000 young people on a climate change protest march in January 2019. She has become famous in Belgium and beyond, and has faced conspiracy theories, death threats and verbal attacks. False claims against her marches even led to the resignation of an environment minister, and Anuna says people simply find it hard to believe that young women can inspire and run their own movements.Image:
L: Hilda F Nakabuye (credit: Hilda F Nakabuye)
R: Anuna De Wever Van Der Heyden (credit: NICOLAS MAETERLINCK/AFP via Getty Images)

Mar 9, 2020 • 26min
Women who need to talk about sex
What is the impact on women when societies stay silent about sex? Kim Chakanetsa talks to two women about why they think it's important to talk about sex openly and the price we pay when we don't.Bestselling Moroccan author Leila Slimani says that in a country where the law punishes and outlaws all forms of sex outside marriage, as well as homosexuality and prostitution, women have only two options for their sexual identities: virgin or wife. Her book Sex and Lies relays the stories women in Morocco have told her about their own sexual lives and frustrations. Amalia Macri recently opened an erotic boutique in Rome. She says that silence around sex and sexuality in Italy leaves people confused about issues of consent and pleasure, and women vulnerable to abuse. She hopes she can encourage people to talk openly about desire so that both women and men can have more healthy relationships.IMAGE CREDITS:
L: Leila Slimani (Catherine Hélie ©Editions Gallimard)
R: Amalia Macrì (Andrea Montanari)

Mar 2, 2020 • 28min
Ocean champions
Our oceans are threatened by plastic pollution and overfishing. Kim Chakanetsa speaks to two pioneering women who are working to sustain our seas.Asha de Vos is a marine biologist who founded Oceanswell, Sri Lanka's first marine conservation and research organisation. Asha's particular research interest is blue whales. She says every stretch of coastline needs its own local hero, and it doesn't have to be a scientist.Emily Penn is a British oceans advocate and skipper who founded eXXpedition - a series of all-female sailing voyages around the world. These trips always include a group of non-sailors from different countries, and their aim is to raise awareness and find solutions for the impact of single use plastic on the ocean.Image
L: Emily Penn (credit: Emmanuel Lubezki)
R: Asha de Vos (credit: The Schmidt Foundation)

Feb 24, 2020 • 27min
Is bad data killing women?
The impact of leaving women's bodies out of research ranges from phones that are too big for female hands, to women being more likely to die if they're in a car accident. Kim Chakanetsa talks to two women investigating the data gender gap and how to resolve it.Caroline Criado Perez says a ‘one-size-fits-men’ approach to design, technology and research has resulted in a myriad of instances where women have been overlooked: from cars that are safer for men driving them to stab vests that don't work as well for women's bodies. In her book, Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men she examines the impact on women of a world that has largely been built for and by men and looks at why data and statistics are far from 'gender-blind'.Lauren Klein says part of the solution lies in the lessons learned by intersectional feminism. The Associate Professor at Emory University has co-authored a book called Data Feminism with Catherine D’Ignazio. It looks at data science and data ethics and their impact on parts of society that are often overlooked and discriminated against.IMAGE
L: Caroline Criado-Perez (credit: Rachel Louise Brown)
R: Lauren Klein (credit: Tamara Gonzalez)

Feb 17, 2020 • 27min
Injured by implants
Life-changing pain from supposedly routine implant operations. Kim Chakanetsa speaks to two women who were injured by medical devices, and have gone on to campaign for concerns about them to be taken seriously in the UK and US.Kath Sansom set up Sling The Mesh in 2015, ten weeks after having a trans-vaginal mesh implant for stress urinary incontinence (SUI), which immediately caused her excruciating pain and debilitation. It was removed seven months later, but Kath is still dealing with the physical and mental after-effects, and fights on for others left in chronic pain by mesh operations. In July 2018 the UK Government temporarily paused the use of vaginal mesh for SUI cases in England, while they carry out a safety review. This is due to report in Spring 2020.Angie Firmalino's permanent birth control implant caused heavy bleeding, fatigue, and sharp stabbing pains. Removing it left fragments of metal and plastic in her body, which continue to cause her health problems. Angie founded the Essure Problems online support group to share her story and warn other women of the risks. It grew to tens of thousands of members who took their concerns to the authorities. In 2018 the device was withdrawn voluntarily by the manufacturer, who say they stand by Essure’s safety and efficacy.IMAGE
L: Angie Firmalino (credit: Angie Firmalino)
R: Kath Sansom (credit: Kath Sansom)