Wine for Normal People

For decades, Aldo Vacca has been the Managing Director of the Produttori del Barbaresco, the best and most successful wine co-op in Europe. Through his leadership and guidance, the Produttori has taken its wines, and with it, the wines of Barbaresco beyond Piedmont in northeastern Italy, to world renown. Aldo’s job at the Produttori is not just an occupation, it is his family legacy and a professional choice he made that has benefitted all who love Nebbiolo. Photo: www.rarewineco.com Aldo took a degree in Viticulture at the Torino University and worked at the prestigious University of California at Davis, after which he got one of the most coveted jobs in Piedmont – he got a job working for Gaja in 1986. But after 4 years, he realized that rather than fame and modernism, he wanted to do something that celebrated the land of Barbaresco and all it represented. He followed in the footsteps of his great grandfather and used his infinite knowledge of Nebbiolo and his skills at management and hospitality, to transform the Produttori into one of the best-known brands in Italy.   I have spent time with Aldo. He’s brilliant, cheeky, and passionate, and after two years, I’m so happy to have finally gotten him on the show. Aldo speaks to groups about the Produttori all the time, has been in lots of media, and he is absolute pro. This is a great show!     Here is a general outline of what we discuss: We discuss the harvest that just was (2022) – what was hard, what was normal, and the changes that the Barbaresco region has endured as climate change has taken hold here.   Aldo discusses his family legacy in Barbaresco and how it ties into the region’s development. He tells us about the hard times in the region and how the Cantine Sociali and then the Produttori were formed to address the social and economic challenges of grape farmers in the 1800s and then again in the mid 1900s.   We learn about the structure of the Produttori and how its quality standards, efficiency, and generosity make it so successful. Aldo tells us how the Produttori has managed to hold its members to such high standards. Photo: Bottling at the Produttori del Barbaresco in May 2022 (c)Wine For Normal People  We get into the details on some of the logistics, the management and membership structure, and the winemaking philosophy (to let Barbaresco shine!). We discuss the extras the members get – knowledge sharing, status and prestige by being part of the Produttori, and the incentives to farm for quality not quantity. And why owning great land yields to great results – they own pieces of the best vineyards.   Aldo tells us about the Barbaresco DOCG – the land, factors that make it different from Barolo, and the overview of the style of wine here. He talks about the MGA system (he refers to it as single vineyard, which is what they are) and what it means for the area.   Aldo and I talk about the wines the Produttori makes, we discuss the flagship Barbaresco and how it is made, and the very affordable and delicious Langhe Nebbiolo, an important product to show people who are just getting into Nebbiolo what it can do and be. Aldo also helps us understand their single vineyard wines and why each expresses something so unique and individual, based on site Photo: Aldo Vacca educates Wine For Normal People Patrons(c)Wine For Normal People We end with a conversation of why the new generation of winemakers and land owners in Barbaresco is so great and Aldo’s great hope for a bright future for Barbaresco and the Produttori.     Here are links to all the wines the Produttori makes: NEBBIOLO LANGHE D.O.C. BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA ASILI BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA MONTEFICO BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA MONTESTEFANO BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA MUNCAGOTA BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA OVELLO BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA PAJÈ BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA PORA BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA RABAJÀ BARBARESCO D.O.C.G. RISERVA RIO SORDO Photo: www.rarewineco.com   _______________________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors this week: Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on every type of wine in a variety of price points. It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. Sign up for their daily email and buy what you want, when you want it. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! Check them out today!   If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Tom Wark is a wine writer, wine public relations company owner (Wark Communications), and our trusted resource for figuring out what is going on with the US wine industry and how it affects us, as wine drinkers. In his role as the executive director of the National Association of Wine Retailers, he manages and helps direct lobbying, litigation, and membership strategy and management for the retailers in the US and in that role has really helped dissect and expose some of the logistical and really cultural issues around wine in the US. He is the author of “Fermentation: The Daily Wine Blog”.   Photo: Tom Wark. Source: "Fermentation Blog"   In this show we discuss a variety of topics, including the recent threat to US interstate wine shipping from the Uniform Law Commission. The bulk of our conversation revolves around the historical legacy of alcohol Prohibition in the US and the damage it caused to the way alcohol is sold, marketing and viewed in the United States.   Our main topics for the show: The latest news from the Uniform Law Commission, a body of lawyers from all 50 states who try to create laws that states can adopt and adapt based on common principles. We discuss the misguided nature of their proposals, and how it could potentially affect wine shipping in the United States The history of Prohibition in the United States – how it came about based on the events and culture of the 1910s and how, during the repeal, systems were set up that are now outdated but have enormous ripple effects in how wine is sold, distributed, and ultimately viewed in the US The Crusaders were a group that fought to repeal Prohibition in the 1930s. Photo: Smithsonian Institute We touch on the active temperance movement of today and why the temperance lobby has a big problem fighting against wine, in particular. We mention marijuana as well, and the coming reckoning for that new industry. Here is the Washington Post article we reference: “From Dry January to Fake Cocktails, Inside the New Temperance Movement”     Tom tells us what the US market would look like without a three-tier distribution system (Hint: pretty awesome) and the multitude of choices it would open up for producers and retailers.   I highly recommend that you subscribe to Tom’s very well-written blog, which is full of excellent and novel thinking. Click here to sign up. _______________________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors this week:    Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on Zinfandel, Barolo, Champagne...you name it - up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $10 credit to use on your first order! Check them out today!   If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Elizabeth (Liz) Gabay, Master of Wine, is the world's foremost expert on rosé and a big part of her career has been studying, writing about, and understanding rosé. Ben Bernheim, her son, is now learning from her wisdom and and is a specialist in his own right. The two of them have just completed the excellent book “Rosés of Southern France” (which is now available on Amazon for purchase. Liz is largely responsible for shifting the tide on rosé and helping people to understand that this wine is its own serious category that deserves thought, study, and consideration. In addition to the new book, Liz is the author of “Rosé: Understanding the Pink Wine Revolution,” and she is also a contributor on rosé in Decanter, The Drinks Business, The Buyer, SevenFiftyDaily, Meiningers, and many more prestigious publications. Photo: https://www.elizabethgabay.com/about/   The wisdom these Liz and Ben have on the subject of rosé is vast, and they are so fun, engaging, and real, that they make it all so interesting and accessible. This is an incredible education on rosé and will enjoy every minute of listening to these fantastic humans. Photo: Ben Bernheim, taken by me when we were partners in a Beaumes de Venise mini-class in the Rhone Valley 4/22 Here are the things we discuss in the show: Liz talks about her background and how she got into wine. She discusses how, when she took the MW, it was a professional certification, and how it has changed dramatically over time. She discusses how she got into rosé, and how Ben got involved in it as well. Then we get into the nuts and bolts of rosé Liz and Ben define rosé (harder than you think!). We discuss he book’s intro and what rosé is really about: “We love rosé. We love its diversity, its complexity, and the infinite combinations of terroir, grape variety, vintage variation and winemaking that we find around the world. Many people think we’re crazy. They see rosé as a pale pink lightly alcoholic swimming pool tipple that somehow tastes better if you’re wearing a bikini. That isn’t what this book is about. “ Photo credit: Canva Liz and Ben tell us about rosé winegrowing: Grapes that are commonly used(red AND white!) The role of terroir in rosé The picking decisions and harvest parameters that matter in making rosé Climate change and how it is affecting grapes for rosé We talk next about rosé winemaking We discuss the various ways to make rosé – direct press, limited maceration and saignée We talk about some of the key factors in rosé winemaking: Time on the skin Yeast strains Co-fermenting with whites Fermentation vessel (oak v. stainless) Temperature control in fermentation Malolactic fermentation vs. no MLF Aging/storage vessel and time – oak, cement, glass, amphora, etc Photo credit: Canva  Liz and Ben tell us why rosé, can be ageworthy and why most isn’t. We also talk about lightstrike and why clear bottles are the worst thing for rosé.   We cover the wines of the southern Rhône -- Tavel, Luberon, Ventoux, the rosés of Provence and Bandol and the wines of the Languedoc-Roussillon. We have an interesting conversation about Costieres di Nimes, which really drives home how certain regions can be outstanding but if they don’t send in samples to writers, or market their wines, they remain unknown.   Liz and Ben help us understand how to buy better rosé. They provide some shortcuts for finding better wines – like looking for sub regions in Cotes de Provence such as Ste. Victoire and La Londe. We talk about how using Google maps to see where the winery is located can help you get better wines (e.g., If it’s in a cool mountain area, it may be crisp, if it’s nearer the ocean the wine may be fatter). They discuss how essential it is to find out about the producer, since often producers want you to see the name “Provence” and buy the bottle…if you poke around a bit you may get a better idea about what you are getting so it’s not a surprise or disappointment   Liz and Ben tell us about the trends in rosé – why it has become so popular, and what are great regions we should keep an eye on. Liz’s recommendations for countries/regions that have been making intresteing rosé (besides France!): Austria, Greece, Sicily (Etna especially), Spain (Clarete from Sigales, Rioja, Ribera del Duero, Navarra), Portugal (Douro, pink Port), Israel.   We end with a conversation on the future of rosé and what Ben and Liz hope for the category.   This is a fantastic conversation about a category of wine that is experiencing a big paradigm shift. Liz and Ben are some of the most normal, kindest, smartest people I’ve met in wine in a long, long while and the show is sprinkled with a ton of industry information – insider things that can help shed light on what goes on with producers, negociants, and writers.  I hope you enjoy and you are motivated to buy their wonderful book! Reach out to them at https://www.elizabethgabay.com/about/   Photo credit: Canva   ________________________ From our Sponsors... Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on big names or boutique brands from all over the world at up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! You can get some awesome deals on rosé!   If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Vinho Verde, the DOC (Denomination of Controlled Origin) Region, has made wine since Roman times. This region is one of the largest DOCs in Europe but within its boundaries there are vast differences between the nine sub regions. In this show,  Mafalda Teixeira Coelho, co-owner of Quinta da Raza and Pedro Campos, winemaker clear up a lot of the misconceptions about Vinho Verde. We learn about the terroir of this old and complex region, the various subregions, and how serious, and sometimes ageworthy wine is being produced here.   Photo: Mafalda Teixeira Coelho, co-owner of Quinta da Raza and Pedro Campos, winemaker (c)Wine For Normal People  In September 2021, I visited the region and I just loved the wines of Quinta da Raza, I adored Mafalda and Pedro, and I thought they were perfect representatives to tell us about their corner of this big region, in Basto, and what they are capable of making in this unique terroir.   Here’s what we discuss in the show: The diversity of Vinho Verde, it’s 9 sub regions and how proximity to the sea, position in the mountains, and soil type make big differences in the grapes you can grow and the resulting wines. Map: Vinho Verde Commission   Pedro tells us about the Basto subregion, where Quinta da Raza is located. It is inland, on granite, schist, and clay soils. The location is a bit more continental with warmer summers and cooler winters than places near the coast, meaning grapes can get fully ripe and quite flavorful.   To understand Vinho Verde, you must understand the nuance between the granite terroir v. the schist terroir. Pedro tells us what the differences are and why they matter.   Mafalda shares the history of the estate and how it was passed down to her husband Diogo, who she manages things with today. Mafalda Teixeira Coelho, co-owner of Quinta da Raza and her daughters, (c)Wine For Normal People  Pedro tells us about the main grapes of the region: Azal, Alvarinho, Avesso, Arinto, Trajadura, and the reds Padeiro and Vinhão. He tells us about the various brands of Quinta da Raza Dom Diogo is the traditional brand that is sold mainly in the Portuguese market Quinta da Raza is a more international style, and where you’ll find those more serious whites like Alvarinho, Avesso, and Gouveio Raza is the very traditional, fizzy Vinho Verde of Arinto, Trajadura, and Azal, with the Rosé made of Vinhão, Padeiro and Espadeiro Nat their line of Pet Nat (Petillant Naturel), sparkling wine made in the ancestral method with a single fermentation happening in the bottle from which you drink it   We discuss some of the important techniques they use to get high quality wine – traditional things like hand harvesting grapes and foot treading in stone lagares, and then more modern things like using stainless steel tanks and modern winemaking techniques. Hand harvest at Quinta da Raza (c)Wine For Normal People  Pedro tells us Alvarinho and Avesso are good candidates for aging, with Gouveio as a possible third.   We finish the conversation by talking about Quinta da Raza’s commitment to sustainability and the bright future for the Vinho Verde region and for the winery.   Quinta da Raza’s wines are fantastic. Seek out the basic Raza, but try to find the single varietals, they are inexpensive and drink way above their price point!   ________________________ From our Sponsors... Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on big names or boutique brands from all over the world at up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! Don't forget to go to the store page to see what wines I love with descriptions I have written.    If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Jean-Baptiste Cordonnier of Château Anthonic in the Moulis-en-Médoc appellation on the Left Bank of Bordeaux is revolutionizing the entire Médoc with a novel approach to farming and adapting to climate change: Agroforestry. This show talks about the practice and the unbelievable results that can be achieved by farming in this way. It will inspire hope that there is a future for viticulture, even in areas where there is great climate change.   Photo: Jean-Baptiste Cordonnier Château Anthonic Château Anthonic is in the Moulis-en-Médoc appellation on the Left Bank of Bordeaux. It is owned and operated by Jean-Baptiste and Nathalie Cordonnier. They make very classically styled, delicious (and relatively low alcohol) red wine from mainly Merlot with Cabernet Sauvignon and some Cabernet Franc and Petit Verdot. Photo: (C) Wine for Normal People, Château Anthonic Since 2016, Jean-Baptiste and his team have practiced agroforestry –trying to mimic the soils and conditions of the forest to enrich soil health and encourage the vines to return to a state where they are part of an eco-system, with fungi, trees, wildlife, and healthy micro-organisms. Using very specialized cover crops, they have managed to lower soil temperatures and keep sugar levels under control by practicing the tenets he discusses.   May people claim to do great things, but Jean-Baptise is the real deal. If there is anything that will inspire hope that human ingenuity and nature may help us out of bad times to come, this show is it.   Here are the topics we discussed:   Jean-Baptiste tells us about his very different educational background, which led him to tackle environmental issues in the way he does today. Forestry, not viticulture, was the foundation of his education (and we should all be grateful for that!)   We get a good background on Moulis-en-Médoc – the terroir, the diversity, and where Château Anthonic is located. We discuss the blue clay, which makes up 70% of his vineyard Photo: (C) Wine for Normal People, Blue Clay Château Anthonic  Then we get into the details of just how we have gotten into the predicament in farming that we have today. Jean-Baptiste explains the phases that humans have gone through to deplete the earth through farming (inadvertently and through a series of bad decisions). He addresses how “the new guest in the dance”, climate change has sped up the need for a solution. Photo: (C) Wine for Normal People, Château Anthonic  We get into the nuts and bolts of agroforestry and how hedges, trees, and grasses in the vineyard are the keys to bringing back fungi and mico-organisms that are vital to making the land healthier and, ultimately, to maintaining the style of Bordeaux that many of us love. He also addresses the economics of the vineyard, and how planting trees has actually given him 2% MORE yield in his vineyard, despite the trees taking out two rows per hectare.     Jean-Baptiste shares the results of his years of agroforestry practices: lower alcohol and more acidity in his grapes, less water stress, and more balanced wines. He is too modest to really brag, but he has trained first and second growth chateaux on the practices of agroforestry, as well as many other prestigious chateaux in the Médoc and beyond. Many are implementing his methods in their vineyards.   Jean-Baptiste leaves us with a message of hope – viticulture is not doomed, Bordeaux is a phoenix, and the rapidity with which change has come means the future is bright for this warming and changing climate, regardless of what nonsense naysayers may spout. Photo: (C) Wine for Normal People, Château Anthonic    ________________________ From our Sponsors... Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on big names or boutique brands from all over the world at up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! Don't forget to go to the store page to see what wines I love with descriptions I have written.    If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Giovanni Correggia of Matteo Correggia. Photo ©Wine For Normal People This podcast was extra special for me, as I was able to record live with Giovanni Correggia of Matteo Correggia in Roero, a part of the Piedmont in Italy that I love and that I try to champion as much as possible. I met Giovanni several years ago and loved his wines and his family story. This podcast is so many things all at once: A great education on the Roero region, by the most famed producer there The story of a grape that was reborn in this place A lesson in the politics of the Piedmont and how some simple choices have brought fame to Barolo and Barbaresco and kept Roero down A fascinating family story that includes a talented champion of Roero, horrible tragedy, triumph of a widow who had nothing to do with wine and her unbelievable strength of character and perseverance for the legacy of her kids, and the current generation (Giovanni) with its shining positivity, great vision and promise of a great future for the Correggia family and its wines. I truly love the wines of Matteo Correggia and I believe that the Nebbiolos he makes  (just called Roero on the bottle) are the exact style of wine so many of us love – elegance, minerality, balance with none of the heaviness or the tannins that we sometimes get from Barolo. The Arneis, it goes without saying, is a white for the ages – a minerally, floral, saline wine with real gravity and the Barbera also has a lighter touch than some of the versions from over the river. Although hard to find, Giovanni’s Brachetto is as tasty as he will describe as well.   I have to say that in interviewing Giovanni and then in editing this show, I laughed and teared up many times. I felt indignant on his behalf, and also triumphant. I hope the conversation we had evokes the same emotions in you. If nothing else, it’s a great story and a great education on an underestimated region.   Here are the show notes: We discuss Roero, its location across from Barberesco and Barolo, and what that means for the climate of the area versus the other famed Nebbiolo areas of Piedmont Giovanni describes the soil types and how a small sea that once existed here, as well as the changing course of the Tanaro River, created a terroir with seashells, a canyon, and steep slopes covered in sandy soil that imbues the wines with a unique minerality that only exists in Roero Val dei Preti Vineyard, Matteo Correggia. Photo ©Wine For Normal People Once Roero was criticized for having multiple crops, but Giovanni talks about how this is now a distinct advantage Giovanni gives us a history lesson on Roero through his single vineyards on which he has great records: La Val dei Preti and Roche d’Ampsej and Marun. We discuss some of the modern history of Roero and some of its challenges Matteo Correggia wines. Photo ©Wine For Normal People We learn about the history of the Correggia family and of his father, Matteo, who started the winery in 1985 at age 23. We talk about Matteo’s early relationship with the founder of Slow Food, Carlo Petrini, and how that led to great opportunities for the winery and the philosophy around organics. Giovanni tells us about his father’s “membership” in the Barolo Boys as the only non-Barolo producer and how those relationships with Elio Altare and Roberto Voerzio were pivotal to early success Giovanni shares with us the tragedy around his father’s death and how his mother Ornella, brought the winery to new heights with great vision and the help of winemaker Luca Rostagno, and the Barolo Boys We talk about the wines and specific vineyards: Giovanni talks about how different vineyards -- La Val dei Preti, Roche d’Ampsej, make different Nebbiolos and how they make wines that are more elegant, less tannic, and more aromatic and minerally than the Nebbiolo of the Langhe. We discuss the biggest problem for Roero, which is that Barolo and Barbaresco producers make excellent wines from the region and label them Langhe Nebbiolo or Nebbiolo d’Alba instead of Roero, thus keeping the region from being recognized We discuss Correggia’s Barbera, and the funny story of the Marun vineyard. Giovanni gives me a great lesson on Barbera and its challenges in the vineyard We discuss Brachetto, the special clone from Roero, and why it is such a unique grape that, when made dry, is great for summer drinking Giovanni Correggia with Brachetto. Photo ©Wine For Normal People We wrap with a discussion of Matteo Correggia’s leadership on screw cap in the region, and a discussion of the challenges and opportunities for Roero, and how Arneis is just the beginning for this undervalued region   Definitely check out Giovanni’s wines – they are so inexpensive for what they are! Saratoga Wine in the states has almost the entire line, as does Tannico in the UK.   _________________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors this week:  Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on big names or boutique brands from all over the world at up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! Don't forget to go to the store page to see what wines I love with descriptions I have written.      If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Denise Marrone comes from a long line of wine growers and winemakers in Barolo. Starting in 1910 when Pietro Marrone, at age 23, asked his father in if he could improve vineyard practices, the family has had a dedication to producing the highest quality grapes and wines  possible from the Langhe, specifically Barolo and Barbaresco.  The family’s legacy, dedication to the land, and their unbelievable hospitality at the winery in La Morra (you have to visit), is such a joy to learn about. Denise Marrone, Courtesy of Marrone Denise and her sisters run Marrone with their father, Gian, today. Denise is a fireball of energy, and her outlook on wine, her candor, and her genuine kindness make this show one of the best I’ve done! I hope you love her as much as I do!   Here are the show notes: Denise tells us about her life in Barolo and a bit about her family’s history in the region, as well as about what life used to be like there, during her grandparents’ time We discuss how young Barolo is as a region, and why it’s important to realize that although it has made wine for a long time, really Barolo is at the beginning of its journey versus regions like Chianti Marrone Barolo Bussia, Courtesy of Marrone Denise gives us a full education on the terroir of Barolo, the most important thing behind the wine. FINALLY I get an excellent definition of the MGA (menzione geografica aggiuntive) system: a mapping of soil types that give some indication about the types of wines you may expect from that area. It’s very similar to the system in Burgundy, but without the cru classifications. Within this conversation with discuss the importance of things like exposure, altitude, position on a slope, wind, rain, and more   Denise talks about her various vineyards in Madonna di Como and her family rents land to farm in some of the MGAs to make their Barolo (her family prefers to do this versus buying grapes because then they have total control over the farming, which is mainly organic and all sustainable)   We hammer out the differences in Nebbiolos – Langhe, Nebbiolo d’Alba, Barolo, and Barbaresco – all of which Marrone makes masterfully. We talk truthfully about how some Langhe Nebbiolo and Nebbiolo d’Alba may be better than Barolo, even if it can’t get the same price for the wine.   Denise talks about her beautiful Barberas, finnicky Dolcettos (and I confirm, it IS an insider’s wine! I love it, I’m biased!), and Marrone’s expansive white wine selection. Marrone’s production is 40% white – Arneis, Chardonnay, and Favorita (Vermentino) – are excellent and their focus on whites shows in the wines. Denise talks a bit about the history of Arneis, specifically, and how difficult it was to make before there was good technology.   We discuss the role of women in Barolo, and how normal it has become for women like Denise and her sisters Serena and enologist/vigneron Valentina, to take the reins from their fathers today. Denise makes an incredibly astute point that now that technology has made work in the vineyards easier, men and women are much more on equal footing and it’s more a mind thing than a physical thing (BRILLIANT!!). Denise Marrone, Courtesy of Marrone Denise is the QUEEN of hospitality. Our conversation tries to do justice to how good it really is (but you have to go there to understand). Perhaps her last statement about always striving to do more and better explains it best – the attitude of a winery like that has one way to go – and that’s UP!!   You can find Marrone’s wines in the US, Canada, and the UK! They are wonderful, as is she! _______________________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors this week: Our new sponsor: Wine Spies! Wine Spies uncovers incredible wines at unreal prices - on Zinfandel, Barolo, Champagne...you name it - up to 75% off! It’s not a club and there’s no obligation to buy. They have a build-a-case option, so you can mix and match wines while enjoying free shipping on every purchase. Visit www.winespies.com/normal you’ll get $20 credit to use on your first order! Check them out today! If you think our podcast is worth the price of a bottle or two of wine a year, please become a member of Patreon... you'll get even more great content, live interactions and classes!  www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople   To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Château Siran is an historic and innovative estate on the Left Bank of Bordeaux, in the commune of Margaux. Once owned by the painter Toulouse-Lautrec’s great-grandmother, in the mid-1800s Siran was purchased by ancestor of Édouard Miailhe’s family and today he is the 6th generation to run Siran.   Miailhe, like many of the most interesting people in the wine industry, had an entire career doing something other than wine (in his case finance and real estate in the Philippines) until his mother and father retired about 15 years ago and he decided to move back to France to run the Château. He likes to stay busy (and take on challenges) because in addition to being the leader of Château Siran in 2018, he took the difficult job of running the winegrowers association of Margaux, a post that was held by his predecessor for decades! Photo: Team at Château Siran, Marjolaine Defrance, oenologist on the left, Édourard Miailhe center, Jean-Luc Chevalier, vineyard manager, right. In this show Édouard does double duty – telling us first about Margaux and then about the spectacular, very classic wines of Château Siran, which are an insane value and should be sitting in your cellar to age right now! We discuss the Margaux AOC: the location, the climate, the (slight) elevation, the soil and the typical style of Margaux, plus how it differs from its close neighbors like Pauillac, St-Julien, Listrac, Moulis, and parts of the Haut-Médoc Édouard shares a bit of the political landscape of the Margaux appellation, its long history (he is amazingly and refreshingly honest about this – Margaux hasn’t always been fancy, glitzy and glamorous!) and talks about how Bordeaux was a very different place 35 years ago. We talk about the grapes in Margaux and what each brings to the blends in the appellation (with special attention given to Petit Verdot). Then we discuss Château Siran … We learn the history of the château and how the property wound up in the Miailhe family’s hands in 1859. Édouard tells us about the fine gravels and subsoils of the region, the proximity of Siran to the river and its unique place in the Labade commune.   The blend and the role of Petit Verdot is featured -- they use up to up to 11% of the grape in some years. We also discuss Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon. We discuss the importance of sustainability – Édouard’s father never sprayed chemicals in the vineyard so it has been free of pesticides for more than 40 years. His vines are old, healthy and full of character. We talk about the Grand Vin – Château Siran – the blending, vinification, and aging. Then we discuss the other wines: S de Siran, the second wine Château Bel Air de Siran (Haut-Médoc) Château Saint-Jacques (Bordeaux Superieur) We really get into the limitations of classifications and why Siran originally opted out of the 1855 Classification and why they recently decided to opt out of the Cru Bourgeois classification. We close talking about how Château Siran is one of the few estates in the Médoc that people can visit. Let’s visit!!! Photo credit: Château Siran Other notes... Chateaux mentioned: Château Giscours, Château Dauzac, Château Prieure-Lichine, Château Pichon-Lalande, Château Palmer, Château Margaux Édouard also mentions Professor Denis Dubourdieu as wine consultant from St.-Émilion Here’s a link to the video of Marjolaine Defrance, the enologist at Chateau Siran   _____________________________________________________ Thanks for our sponsors this week: Wine Access: Access to the best wines for the best prices! For 15% off your next order, go to www.wineaccess.com/normal   To become a member of Patreon go to www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople       To register for an AWESOME, LIVE WFNP class with Elizabeth go to: www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes

Anne Le Naour is the technical and managing director for Château Meyney of St-Estèphe in the Médoc of Bordeaux. She also manages the other properties of CA Grands Crus. The company is owned by the top bank that supports wine in France, Crédit Agricole Group (sometimes referred to as "la banque verte" due to its historical connections with farming). Its current portfolio includes Chateaux Meyney, 5th growth Grand Puy Ducasse in Pauillac, and Santenay in Burgundy.   Le Naour is a trained oenologist with global experience and since she began at Meyney in 2016, she has transformed the Château, restructuring vineyards, improving viticulture, and moving towards organics. She has introduced better winemaking – less extraction, less obvious oak, and more care in handling vine and wine. Her deep knowledge of wine and winemaking, plus her unwavering dedication to quality has meant that the wines of Meyney are attracting more attention than ever.   These are exquisite wines, underpriced for what they are (Meyney is right next to second growth, Montrose, incidentally, even though it was unfairly omitted from the 1855 classification) and Anne joins to tell us about her outstanding career, the underappreciated area of St-Estèphe on the Left Bank, and the beautiful wines of the historic Château Meyney. Here's my quick tasting video for a review.   Here are the notes from our conversation: We open with a discussion of Meyney and its heritage first an ecclesiastical property, then as a woman-owned property (that was, at that time, conspicuously left out of the 1855 classification), to the more recent family ownership and then to Credit Agricolé, the current owner. Photo: Château Meyney Anne gives an overview of her outstanding career, where she worked at chateaux and domaine in Champagne (Mumm), Burgundy, Loire, Bordeaux (at Château Beychevelle) --some of the biggest names in French wine. She discusses her time in the Yarra Valley of Australia (Yering Station), and the US working with David Abreu. We discuss how her curiosity and a bit of innocence about how hard it would be to break into the industry helped her excel, and how going to Australia gave her an education of a lifetime. We discuss what it means to be of Generation X and in a management role in wine, and how our generation differs from others.   We move on to St-Estèphe, and why it is not as esteemed as it should be… Anne posits that St. Estèphe’s distance from Bordeaux city – it takes 1.5 hours to travel St-Estèphe vs. 40 mintues to Margaux, may make it less desirable. We discuss the terroir – the traditional ability for wines to get riper in Margaux and St-Julien (those wines were known for elegance) vs St-Estèphe (called rustic). With better decisions in the vineyard and with winemaking the wines of St-Estèphe are often full and elegant – the best of all world due to the presence of gravel on the top soils to help ripening and clay beneath to keep soils wet during periods of drought. Map: Bordeaux.com, Vins de Bordeaux The we discuss the specifics of what Anne has done to improve the vineyards and wines of Meyney. This is a great education session on what actually matters in the vineyard and why. We discuss some specific improvements that have been made at Meyney to boost wine quality: Switching Merlot and Cabernet Sauvignon sites to improve quality of the wine dramatically Using better grape material – quality over quantity is now the priority Improving canopy management and increasing vine density Watching extractions and over-use of oak Creating a unique style for the second wine, Prieur de Meyney Organic and sustainable practices to improve soil health Photo: Wine.com We wrap up with a discussion of how we need to keep terroir in mind, but be flexible about our ideas of the appellations. Here is a link to the video with the soil and plantings map, that is so very well done: Meyney Video This was an excellent conversation from one of the best people working in wine today! I learned more than I can express, and I think you will too. Take a listen! _____________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors this week: Thanks to YOU! The podcast supporters on Patreon, who are helping us to make the podcast possible and who we give goodies in return for their help! Check it out today: https://www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople And to sign up for classes, please go to www.winefornormalpeople.com/classes!  Get your copy Wine For Normal People Book today!    Wine Access  Visit: www.wineaccess.com/normal for a special deal on your order! I’m so excited to work with Wine Access and you should definitely try them out. Wine Access is a web site that has exclusive wines that overdeliver for the price (of which they have a range). Wine Access provides extensive tasting notes, stories about the wine and a really cool bottle hanger with pairings, flavor profile, and serving temps. They have REAL brands, REAL people picking the wines, and the deals and service are outstanding. Try their wine club out -- it's one of the best ways to get quality wines you may never have tried!  Check it out today! www.wineaccess.com/normal 

Riccardo Sobrino, of Cascina delle Rose, runs a small estate in Barbaresco that produces elegant, perfumed and complex wines and has been in his family for more than 70 years. This 5 ha/12 acre vineyard is a family operation – he and his brother inherited the property from their parents, who are still involved in major decisions of the winery.   Cascina delle Rose was started by Riccardo’s mother, Giovanna Rizzolio, in 1992 on this ideal site – steep vineyards with calcareous soils on the Tre Stelle vineyard side and clay soils on the Rio Sordo side to yield two equally wonderful but very different Barbarescos. Since its inception, Giovanna insisted on biodiversity, organic viticulture, and making wines that represent the elegance and grace. Made to highlight terroir, these wines represent the elegance and grace that is inherent to the wines of this region. Photo: Courtesy Cascina delle Rose, Riccardo is second from the right The estate is run by Davide, Riccardo’s older brother and Riccardo, who I welcome and who I have had an opportunity to visit and learn from in the vineyards and in the winery.   In the show we cover: The history of Barbaresco and of Riccardo’s family in the area We discuss his AWESOME mother, Giovanna Rizzolio, who saved up money working at a job she hated in textiles to buy the winery from her family and create outstanding wines that she made working in concert with the land. Riccardo shares her story and what it was like to be a woman in the early 1990s owning a winery on her own (hint: she is amazing) Riccardo talks about the roles everyone in his family plays in the business – his brother as head of the vineyards, Riccardo as a co-winemaker and businessman.   Barbaresco Riccardo gives us an excellent view into the terroir of Barbaresco, the MGA system and then we go into detail on his beautiful vineyards, Rio Sordo (heavier soils, a bit bolder in flavor) and Tre Stelle (lighter soils, a bit more elegant in style). Riccardo teaches us about the importance of aspect, elevation, slope, and soil – it’s a great dork out and so well explained. We discuss, in detail, the differences between Nebbiolo, Barbera, and Dolcetto. And how Riccardo and Davide work hard in the vineyard to achieve the elegance that typifies Cascina delle Rose. We wrap with a very useful discussion of how long to age Barbaresco (we both prefer it around 10-15 years, but agree it’s personal preference) and Riccardo gives us his word that tradition at Cascina delle Rose, is sacrosanct, so we can expect these wines to stay in their beautiful style for years to come. Photo: Courtesy Cascina delle Rose, View of property ___________________________________________________________ Thanks to our sponsors: Wine Access      Visit: www.wineaccess.com/normal and for a limited time get $20 off your first order of $50 or more!  Wine Access is a web site that has exclusive wines that overdeliver for the price (of which they have a range). They offer top quality wines by selecting diverse, interesting, quality bottles you may not have access to at local shops. Wine Access provides extensive tasting notes, stories about the wine and a really cool bottle hanger with pairings, flavor profile, and serving temps. Wines are warehoused in perfect conditions and shipped in temperature safe packs. Satisfaction is guaranteed! Check it out today! www.wineaccess.com/normal    Thanks to YOU! The podcast supporters on Patreon, who are helping us to make the podcast possible and who we give goodies in return for their help! Check it out today: https://www.patreon.com/winefornormalpeople