Azure & DevOps Podcast

Today’s guest is Kyle Nunery, a Principal Software Architect at Clear Measure as well as the business owner of Burnout Studios (where he has developed mobile games for the iOS platform and created art assets for the Unity3D asset store!) As a full stack web developer, Kyle can optimize SQL queries, architect a web application, push pixels, design a web API, design a UI, optimize the backend for scalability, and write difficult business logic. His biggest strength is his willingness and ability to work on any problem needed to ship great software. Kyle’s primary goal is to work on challenging problems with great people by developing software that is innovating in its space!   In this episode, Jeffery Palermo and Kyle Nunery discuss Azure DevOps in the real world. They talk about how much the space around CICD has changed, the work Kyle has done around optimizing builds and automation environments, the tools he finds most useful, some of the issues that occur in build and deployment pipelines and how to resolve them, and what to do when a build fails. Kyle also shares his thoughts on Blazor, .NET Framework vs. .NET Core, Vue.js vs. Angular and React, and Kendo libraries.    This episode is chock-full of actionable tips so be sure to tune in!   Topics of Discussion: [1:36] About today’s guest. [2:16] Jeffery welcomes on Kyle Nunery! [2:43] Kyle speaks about his background in software and how he originally got into it. [3:37] Jeffrey and Kyle reflect on how much the space around CICD has changed. [4:45] The work Kyle has done around optimizing builds and automation environments, and how he originally came to focus on it. [7:14] What tools does Kyle find the most useful to always have installed? [8:00] With the database on the build server, does Kyle have integration tests that make use of the database? [8:30] Some of the aspects in build and deployment pipelines that take a long time and need to be tuned, and Kyle’s solutions and recommendations to address this. [11:42] Kyle highlights some of the other issues that typically occur with CICD pipelines. [12:17] A word from Azure DevOps sponsor: Clear Measure. [12:44] What does Kyle do when a build fails? [13:26] With these DevOps pipelines, what technology stack does Kyle seem to be doing more work with these days? [13:56] Is Kyle seeing more .NET Framework or .NET Core lately? [14:59] So is .NET Framework still a lot more popular? [16:02] Is there any special considerations for reporting when you need to get automated builds and deployments online? [16:38] Kyle speaks about what he’s been seeing out in the wild with regards to integration tests. [17:38] New technologies that Kyle has his eyes on! [18:22] What makes Vue.js different from Angular or React? [19:55] Has Kyle used Kendo libraries? [20:40] Kyle’s take on Blazor! [23:20] Resources Kyle recommends listeners follow-up on. [25:46] Where to find the script to auto-generate a VM for an Azure Pipeline build agent. [26:36] Jeffrey thanks Kyle for joining him this episode!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out to Jeffrey @JeffreyPalermo on Twitter if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo bit.ly/dotnetdevopsproject — Visit for an example of .Net DevOps for Azure GitHub — ClearMeasureLabs Kyle Nunery Kyle Nunery’s LinkedIn Kyle Nunery’s Twitter: @KNunery Burnout Studios Octopus Deploy CICD Visual Studio Code SQL Server Express .NET Framework and .NET Core Vue.js React Angular CLI Kendo UI (Library) Blazor Microsoft Silverlight Vue Mastery Vue School Microsoft Build Conference   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s episode is all about recognizing middle-of-the-day deployments; how teams such as Netflix, Facebook, and even the Azure DevOps Product Team are doing them; and taking a look at how other teams can achieve that for themselves!   Jeffrey Palermo’s guest today is Eric Fleming, a Software Architect at Clear Measure. Eric leads an intense team, developing and operating a mission-critical software system in the financial sector. He lives in Alpharetta, Georgia, and is a host of the Function Junction Youtube Channel, which is all about Azure functions. He’s also written articles for MSDN Magazine and CODE Magazine.   In this episode, Eric takes Jeffrey through his journey of inheriting a monolithic software system and the major transformations he had to execute to get it where it is today; deploying in the middle of the day! He explains the key steps he took in breaking up the monolith, the development process, who was involved, what the structure and DevOps environments looked like, and all of the details you need to know if you’re finding yourself in a similar situation!   Topics of Discussion: [:52] How to get your hands on Jeffrey’s book, .NET DevOps for Azure. [2:04] About today’s episode and featured guest. [3:00] Jeffrey welcomes Eric to the podcast! [3:06] Eric begins the story of how he inherited a software system and the journey it took getting it to deploy in the middle of the day. [9:58] Fast forward to today, what does this software system look like now? [11:50] What does Eric attribute to his ability to handle a high-throughput in only four app servers? [15:52] Eric’s process for deploying the 50-sum processes that need to be deployed. [17:32] A word from Azure DevOps sponsor: Clear Measure. [17:59] Eric speaks about their Git Repositories. [19:25] Eric explains what the structure and DevOps environments of one of his applications looks like (that is a Windows service with its own Git Repository). [21:45] Who is involved whenever part of the system is being deployed? [25:37] Has there been development process differences during their monthly deployments/monolith time? [26:22] Now that they are shipping every day/whenever they need to, what has become of their sprints? And how do they get some features done in just a day and ready to deploy within days? What does this look like and how do they implement this pattern? [31:50] Do sprints even exist in this new world? [33:31] The major transformations that Eric had to execute to get to where he is today with the software system, and some of the first steps he took to breaking up the monolith. [36:27] Would Eric have been able to start breaking the monolith apart if he didn’t have automated tests? [38:47] Resources Eric recommends to listeners in a similar situation to where he was!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out to Jeffrey @JeffreyPalermo on Twitter if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo bit.ly/dotnetdevopsproject — Visit for an example of .Net DevOps for Azure Function Junction Youtube Channel MSDN Magazine CODE MagazineEric Flemming’s Twitter: @EFleming18 NServiceBus Particular SoftwareTeamCity Octopus Deploy Sumo Logic New Relic Accelerate: The Science of Lean Software and DevOps: Building and Scaling High Performing Technology Organizations, by Nicole Forsgren PhD, Jez Humble, and Gene Kim The DevOps Handbook: How to Create World-Class Agility, Reliability, and Security in Technology Organizations, by Gene Kim, Patrick Debois, John Willis, and Jez Humble The Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win, by Gene Kim, Kevin Behr, and George Spafford   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Dr. Neil Roodyn — an entrepreneur, founder, consultant, trainer, and author! Neil travels the world, working with technology companies and helps software development teams become more productive. He spends much of his time each year flying between Europe and the U.S. working with software teams and writing about his experiences. As an author, Neil has been involved in several technical books, including: Mixed Reality Fundamentals, where he was a co-author; The Digital Table, which he also co-authored; and eXtreme .NET: Introducing eXtreme Programming Techniques to .NET Developers.   An interesting fact about Neil is that he is often at the forefront (or ahead of) technology trends. In 1995, Neil worked on 3D graphics and VR; in 1999, he worked with smartphone technology; in 2002, he was actively involved with the tablet PC; in 2005, he focused on online mapping; in 2008, it was digital tables; and in 2011, it was all about vision-based computing. And now, since 2016, he has been working with AI, cognitive services, and mixed reality! A core part of Neil’s work is his belief that technology should help us; not hinder us — and right now, that’s not always the case.   Dr. Neil Roodyn has seen many technologies, paradigm shifts, and has done a lot of thinking around how the different technologies impact how we behave and communicate — i.e. the social impact of technology. In this episode, Neil gives his take on the social impact of technology, the huge challenges that come along with it, and his ideas on how to address it from both an individual and team level.   This is an incredibly important topic for developers (or anyone in the industry really!) — so tune in to learn more about the social impact of technology and how you can become less distracted and more productivity!   Topics of Discussion: [:53] How to get your hands on Jeffrey’s book, .NET DevOps for Azure. [1:35] About today’s guest! [2:57] Jeffrey welcomes Dr. Neil Roodyn on to the podcast! [4:37] Neil’s thoughts around the struggle to get high quality in software building. [5:57] What has changed in the industry in the last 12 years around automated testing? [7:49] Neil’s general take on the social impact of different technologies. [15:30] Neil’s ideas on how to become less distracted by technologies as an individual and as a team. [17:47] A word from Azure DevOps sponsor: Clear Measure. [18:12] The challenges of not being in the same space as your team while working. [21:12] Jeffrey and Neil discuss trades without the challenges that technologies can present and the unique challenges that are a part of industries where you do work with technologies. [24:11] Talking productivity vs. technology interruptions [27:20] How technology decreases our ability to be present. [29:38] Neil gives his advice on how to create a development environment that enables focus. [36:36] Neil’s recommendations on what listeners should follow-up on after listening to today’s podcast.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! Microsoft Build Conference .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo eXtreme .NET: Introducing eXtreme Programming Techniques to .NET Developers, by Dr. Neil Roodyn Dr. Neil Roodyn’s LinkedIn Dr. Neil Roodyn’s Twitter DrNeil.me nsquared solutions (Roodyn’s Company) Digitable by nsquared TechEd Billy Hollis TDD Luxafor iPhone Screen Time feature   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Jeffrey Palermo’s guest today is none other than Atley Hunter! Atley has been a developer for more than 20 years and has developed over 1200 publically released apps across many Microsoft platforms. In fact, he has published more apps on the Microsoft side of the industry than anybody else in the world! Atley is a driven creator who balances the practicalities of requirements with his vast knowledge of platforms, techniques, and a personal hunger for knowledge. He has also successfully led many Agile development teams using his long history of team development to improve processes, productivity, and quality.   In this episode, Jeffrey and Atley are discussing the business of app development! Atley describes some of the first apps he’s ever developed, some of the most successful and popular apps he’s ever created, how he’s gone about creating these apps, and gives his tips for other developers in the space. Atley and Jeffrey also discuss why many develops don’t make a lot of money in the store, how he has found success with his app creation, best practices for code reuse, what a development environment looks like for a mobile app, tips and advice around creating an effective Xamarin app, and much more.   Topics of Discussion: [:46] About today’s episode with guest, Atley Hunter. [2:05] Jeffrey welcomes Atley on the podcast. [3:22] How did Atley’s career unfold? When and why did he begin developing apps? [5:58] What were the first few apps that Atley developed? What were they about and what did they do? [10:43] Atley highlights some of his most popular apps for both Windows phones and the Windows 10 store. He also explains why many developers don’t make much money in the store. [14:38] Has Atley converted any of his apps to iOS or Android? Or has he stuck with just Windows? [15:46] Atley gives his tips and advice around creating an effective Xamarin app. [18:04] A word from Azure DevOps sponsor: Clear Measure. [18:31] Which flavor of Xamarin should developers reach for? [19:36] What are Atley’s favorite libraries? [20:06] General software best practices for code reuse. [23:25] Did Atley write many of his apps in Xamarin? [24:35] Atley describes what a development environment looks like for a mobile app and offers some of his tips for developers. [26:02] Atley’s opinion on Azure App Center vs. Azure Pipelines, and how the two come together. [31:09] Atley’s take on interacting with users who use his apps and how it helps him! [35:21] Resources Atley recommends listeners follow-up on.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! Atley Hunter (LinkedIn) AtleyHunter.com The Watchbox App Xamarin Prism Library FlurryAzure App Center Internet of Things (IoT)   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

On today’s episode, Greg Duncan is joining the podcast! Greg has been developing eDiscovery software applications since his days at the now-defunct, Arthur Andersen. And he continued to develop eDiscovery applications over the next 10 years at KPMG, a time of continuous change and innovation in the world of eDiscovery and information governance. As a Microsoft and Visual Studio .NET MVP and certified Scrum master, Greg has been blogging and podcasting substantive technology information for many years. His dedication for research in tandem with his vast experience brings forth relevant and useful information that could be applied to all aspects of legal technology. And, you may recognize him as a host on Radio TFS!   Greg has been putting a lot of effort into the Ops side of DevOps. In this episode, he gives his wisdom and thoughts around the Ops side of DevOps, what he sees going on across teams and his suggestions on how to fix these all-too-common problems, how to influence the combining of Dev and Ops at your organization regardless of your control (or lack thereof), and much, much more! Tune in!   Topics of Discussion: [:48] About today’s guest, Greg Duncan. [1:43] Jeffrey welcomes Greg on to the podcast. [3:09] Greg gives a rundown of his career journey! [9:10] The story of how Radio TFS got started. [11:02] What Greg sees in the Ops side of DevOps across teams. [18:47] If it’s out of your control to combine the Dev and the Ops, what can you do? [22:45] Discussing the third way of DevOps: continuous learning, and why it is so crucial. [26:45] Discussing AIOps and Alexa. [30:05] Talking about the benefits of utilizing Azure Application Insights. [32:41] Discussing the concept of, and movement of, separating a deployment from a release. [35:41] Jeffrey and Greg speak about implementing feature flag services. [37:51] Greg gives his recommendations for those looking to improve their Ops and DevOps.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! Greg Duncan (LinkedIn) Radio TFS Microsoft Build Conference .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo The Azure DevOps Podcast Episode - “Party with Palermo at the Microsoft MVP Summit” The Azure DevOps Podcast Episode - “Edward Thomson on All Things Git, libgit2, and Azure DevOps” “DevOps: Is AIOps Just Yet Another Almost Meaningless Acronym?” by Greg Low Azure Application Insights Datadog DevBlogs.Microsoft.com/DevOps — Visit for Ed Thomson’s ‘Top Stories’ from the past week Azure DevOps Labs   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Mark Miller, a five-year C# MVP alumnus with strong expertise in decoupled design, plug-in architectures, and great user interfaces. He is the Chief Architect of the IDE Tools division at Developer Express, as well as the visionary force behind productivity tools like CodeRush. Mark is a top-ranked speaker at conferences around the world and has been creating tools for software for almost four decades. Mark is also the creator of “The Science of Great UI” and “Design Like a Pro” courses on DevIQ.com. On top of all that, Mark also streams live C# and typescript coding and design on Twitch.TV/CodeRushed!   In this episode, Jeffrey Palermo and Mark Miller are discussing developer productivity and UI. Mark explains what he believes makes for great design, the power of simple language, his three key approaches to maximizing productivity and creating appealing UI, the guidelines he sees getting broken the most often, what you should avoid, and where and how to learn more!   Topics of Discussion: [:45] Jeffrey shares some news about the Microsoft Build Conference and his book, .NET DevOps for Azure. [1:44] About today’s episode and featured guest, Mark Miller! [3:12] Mark speaks about how he originally got into software. [8:43] How Mark’s interest in the efficiency of motion ties into his work at CodeRush; and the two things he believes make up great design! [11:37] Mark’s thoughts on the power of simple language — both in UI and everyday conversation. [14:14] What it comes down to when it comes to good design. [16:55] Mark summarizes his three key approaches to maximizing productivity and creating appealing UI. [17:20] Mark’s favorite set of guidelines, where to find them, and the guidelines he most often sees broken. [23:20] A word from Azure DevOps sponsor: Clear Measure. [24:47] With these types of principles and guidelines, are there any templates or style sets Mark would recommend? [27:43] Why Mark says to avoid combo boxes. [30:47] Mark’s view on general navigation in business applications. [37:22] Mark’s pitch on why you should try CodeRush! [41:20] About Mark’s Twitch channel, CodeRushed. [44:00] What Mark recommends listeners should follow-up on.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) — Reach out if you have a user group or conference and would like some free copies of .NET DevOps for Azure! Microsoft Build Conference .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo Mark Miller on Crunchbase Developer Express CodeRush ”The Science of Great UI” by Mark Miller (at DevIQ.com) “Design Like a Pro” by Mark Miller (at DevIQ.com) Twitch.TV/CodeRushed .NET Rocks! Podcast A/B Testing SGUI.com   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Joining Jeffrey Palermo today is Jeff Fritz! Jeff is the Senior Program Manager in Microsoft’s Developer Division working on the .Net Community Team. He's a long-time web developer and survivor of the .com era. He has built large software-as-a-service applications in every version of ASP.NET, with a focus on performance and scalability. Four days a week you can catch Jeff writing code and teaching folks how to get ahead in the software industry on a live video stream called, “Fritz and Friends” on Twitch! You can also catch Jeff on a previous episode of The Azure DevOps Podcast; “Party with Palermo at the Microsoft MVP Summit!”   This week, the two Jeffreys will be discussing .Net Core and Blazor! They talk about Jeff’s background in the industry and what he’s currently up to, his current findings in the space of .Net Core 3.0 and Blazor, his experimentation with Blazor and Akka.NET, and whether or not the Blazor model will become the norm for web applications. Jeff also reviews what’s available for developers to use today vs. what they may have to wait a bit for, and gives his recommendations on what listeners should follow up on to learn more about Blazor and Akka.NET.   Topics of Discussion: [:42] About today’s episode. [2:05] Jeff gives his background; how he came to work at Microsoft, caught the “speaking bug,” and how he decided to become a video streamer on Twitch. [7:50] Jeff talks about the logistics of some of the longer format video streams he conducts. [9:10] What Jeff is finding in the space of .Net Core 3 and Blazor. [15:21] Jeff deciphers what is available for developers to use right now vs. what they have to wait a bit for. [20:19] Will the Blazor model become the norm for web applications? [26:49] About Jeff’s experimentation with Blazor and Akka.NET. [33:01] How Akka.NET is architecturally different (from Hub-and-spoke or a bus pattern). If you’re an an ASP-controller, what does it look like? [34:44] Resources Jeff recommends to learn more about Blazor and Akka.NET.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) .Net Core 3 Blazor Jeff Fritz Jeff Fritz’s channel on Twitch: CSharpFritz Jeff Fritz’s Twitter: @CSharpFritz Jeff Fritz’s GitHub: @CSharpFritz JeffreyFritz.com (Jeff Fritz) Visual Studio channel on Twitch The Azure DevOps Podcast Episode: “Party with Palermo at the Microsoft MVP Summit” MVP Summit TechEd .Net Conf 2019 Microsoft Build Conference 2019 C# 8.0 WebAssembly The Azure DevOps Podcast Episode: “Rockford Lhotka on Software Architecture” Akka.NET LearnAkka.net Docs.Microsoft.com Blazor.net Live Coders Team on Twitch NinjaBunny9000 on Twitch   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

This week is a special solo-edition episode with your host, Jeffrey Palermo! Recently, Jeffrey published his fourth book, .NET DevOps for Azure, on April 26th, 2019. This book has been a long-time coming for Jeffrey and his hopes for it are to address some really big issues in the current industry.   Almost fifteen years ago, Jeffrey gained a passion for helping developers succeed, for making the complex simple, and for finding rules of thumb that would work for 80% of teams and situations out there. With too many options in the software world and too many answers of “it depends,” the industry has been starved for the ability to do something “by the book.” .NET DevOps for Azure seeks to provide that text where a .Net developer can say: “I’m doing DevOps with .NET and Azure by the book.”   If you are a .NET developer or a Microsoft shop using .NET Core or SQL Server and you’re looking ahead to Azure, then this book is for you.   Join Jeffrey this episode to further explore the topics in his upcoming book and to learn more!   Topics of Discussion: [:53] About today’s episode. [2:37] Jeffrey reads a couple sections from his book, .NET DevOps for Azure. [4:31] What Jeffrey's book sets out to solve & the scope that it covers. [10:34] Who this book is for! [12:40] A word from the sponsor: Clear Measure. [13:05] More details about the book and the upcoming versions to be released. [13:41] Jeffrey gives a preview of one of the techniques (from the book) on operations. [16:42] They key differences between the often-used (and overused) glyph of DevOps vs. Jeffrey’s version, and how Jeffrey’s version helps increase productivity and cycle time. [22:04] The other key features of Jeffrey’s book that help further illustrate his ideas and techniques. [24:06] How to follow the guidance in this book. [27:50] How to get a hold of the book!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) Microsoft Build Conference Microsoft Build Conference Sessions Microsoft Ignite .NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo Jeffrey Palermo’s Other Books Dev.Azure.com/ClearMeasureLabs/Onion-DevOps-Architecture The Azure DevOps Podcast Ep. 03 - “Sam Guckenheimer on Testing, Data Collection, and the State of DevOps Report”   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Rob Richardson — a software craftsman building web properties in ASP.NET, Node, Angular, and Vue. He’s a software developer, a community leader, a mentor, and a business owner (of Richardson & Sons.) Rob is also a Microsoft MVP; published author; frequent speaker at conferences, user groups, and community events; and a diligent teacher and student of high-quality software development.   As an expert on Containers in Azure, Rob gives his insights and recommendations. In this episode, he explains the critical steps when creating a container, what developers should consider when looking to run and support Containers through Azure, and much, much more.   Topics of Discussion: [:47] About today’s episode and guest. [1:26] Jeffrey welcomes Rob to the podcast. [1:52] What are Containers ready for so far in Azure? [4:15] How did Rob come to focus on Containers? [5:56] Does Rob consider Containers more of a Dev concept or an Ops concept? [8:42] Rob’s advice to those with existing .NET framework applications looking to run and support Containers through Azure. [11:29] What should developers consider for .NET framework applications that are tied to Windows? [17:22] Rob outlines the critical steps for creating a container that packages up their application. [22:33] What the term ‘Image’ means in Containers. [23:31] About the Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [23:57] If a build succeeds (from a continuous integration process starting with the container), does Rob recommend continuing by promoting the container to various environments along the way to production? [25:50] How many application components should go in a single container? And if you’re doing a .NET build, should you intentionally do it only on a few projects or should you do it at the solution level? [30:25] How do Containers affect what your monthly Azure bill might be vs. using PaaS services? [33:27] Resources that Rob recommends listeners follow-up on to learn more about this topic! [35:50] Where to find Rob online and find him at upcoming conferences!   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) Windows Containers Rob Richardson’s BlogRob’s Twitter: @Rob_RichRichardson & Sons AZGiveCamp The Azure DevOps Podcast Ep. 10: “Talking Azure DevOps at the Microsoft Ignite Event 2018” ASP.NET Node Angular Vue Azure Kubernetes (AKS) Azure Container Instances (ACI) Azure Web Apps Docker Docker Hub Azure Container Registry Platform as a Service (PaaS) Rob’s upcoming presentations DockerCon   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

Today’s guest is Rockford Lhotka. Rocky is an open source architect, professional author, speaker, Microsoft Regional Director, MVP, and avid outdoorsman! He’s written numerous books on Visual Basic, C#, and CSLA .NET; and regularly speaks at major technical events.   Rocky has been a mover and shaker in this industry for a long time. He got started in the late 80s, jumped onto the Microsoft bandwagon, and has never looked back since. Most notably, Rocky is the the CTO of Magenic — the leading modern application development firm that addresses the toughest, most complex software development challenges and delivers results. He is also the creator of CSLA .NET, one of the most widely used development frameworks for Microsoft .NET.   This week, Jeffrey and Rocky are discussing software architecture. They discuss what Rocky is seeing transformation-wise on both the client side and server side, compare and visit the spectrum of Containers vs. virtual machines vs. PaaS vs. Azure Functions, and take a look at microservice architecture. Rocky also gives his tips and recommendations for companies who identify as .NET shops, and whether you should go with Containers or PaaS.   Topics of Discussion: [:48] About today’s episode and guest. [1:10] Jeffrey welcomes Rocky to the podcast. [1:57] Rocky introduces himself and gives a rundown of how he’s gotten to this point in time. [3:15] About Rocky’s popular open source library called CSLA now on .NET Core. [6:53] Where Rocky sees the client side transformation heading on the web. [16:34] Rocky’s recommendations (for companies who identify as .NET shops) to do today. [21:20] What Rocky is paying attention to on the server side transformation. [24:07] A word from The Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure. [24:33] How Rocky views the spectrum of Containers vs. virtual machines vs. PaaS and Azure Functions? [26:10] Which is more forward-looking? Containers or PaaS? And if someone doesn’t understand either one and is just looking to modernize, which does Rocky recommend? [28:50] Does Rocky believe that 10 years down the line, a Linux format Container is going to become the defacto standard .NET Core package format? [30:30] Why Rocky (and many other developers) are looking to Linux from a Container perspective. [34:30] What does Rocky think a microservice is? And some of the problems with the current mixed definitions. [42:12] How many pipelines are really needed to maintain and operate this overall microservice architecture? [44:08] Resources Rocky recommends listeners follow-up on to learn more.   Mentioned in this Episode: Azure DevOps Clear Measure (Sponsor) Rockford Lhotka (LinkedIn) Magenic MVP Summit CSLA .NET WebAssembly Angular React Uno Platform Blazor Kubernetes Node Python PaaS Azure Functions Amazon Web Services (AWS) “Why Microservice is a Terrible Term,” by Rockford Lhotka Rockford Lhotka’s Blog NextGen Reader Gitter.im   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.