"Upstream" with Erik Torenberg

Samuel Hammond, senior economist, discusses AI, mental models, polarization, and political influence. Topics include AI safety concerns, Mormonism's lessons for AI risks, and the impact of AI on society. They also explore blind spots in libertarianism, government dysfunction, and the challenges of adapting to technological revolutions.

Biotech founder and investor Martin Shkreli joins Erik Torenberg and his co-host Jesse Genet on In The Arena podcast to dissect his controversies and crises through the lens of leadership. Martin goes deep into the leadership decisions and regulatory environment that led to him serving time in prison, the lessons he took away about tech and founding startups, and how he believes there is a hero’s journey arc up ahead. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/upstreamIn The Arena is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. If you loved listening, subscribe at the podcast platform of your choice: https://link.chtbl.com/MwjyhPC5Upstream and In The Arena are part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: www.turpentine.coRECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriffTIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode Preview(01:52) Reliving Martin's most stressful moment(06:09) How the lawsuit impacted Martin's team(09:52) How the government handled Shkreli’s case(11:22) The day Martin was taken by authorities(14:28) Sponsor: NetSuite(19:10) Hedge funds’ relationships with the law compared with venture(25:57) The price hike and pharma industry norms(32:22) Explanation of charges(41:15) The new CEO(44:36) New trope of private equity pharma(48:57) The demise of trust in the media and Pharma Bro(57:11) Regrets and anger(59:45) The epidemic of criminal injustice(01:02:58) Being sued by the FTC under the Sherman Act (monopoly law)(01:06:03) Shkreli and Silicon Valley(01:08:31) Entrepreneurship post-indictment(01:15:40) Martin’s time in prison(01:21:48) Martin reflects on being a repeat founder, and where his passions lie now.X / TWITTER:@wagieeacc (Martin)@jessegenet (Jesse)@eriktorenberg (Erik)@inthearena_podPlease support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Bryan Caplan is a writer and professor of economics at George Mason University, as well as the author of four books, including The myth of the Rational Voter, and The Case Against Education. His upcoming book is on Feminism. In this conversation, we talked about Bryan's views on sex and relationships, innovative approaches to boost birth rates, homeschooling, and his theories on what actually divides the left and the right. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAM--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriffTIMESTAMPS(00:00) Episode Preview(03:00) Identifying trends that are technically correct but not politically correct(05:20) Why are humans having less kids(13:37) The best ways to not conform(15:28) Sponsor: NetSuite(16:59) Feminism(21:12) Homeschooling(23:25) Dating markets, hook ups, and standard-lowering(32:51) Bryan’s dating advice(41:51) Agency and mental illness(46:58) El Salvador’s approach to crime(56:27) Immigration(01:02:05) Ukraine(01:03:33) What really divides the left and the right?LINKS:Bryan Caplan, The Case Against Education https://www.amazon.com/Case-against-Education-System-Waste/dp/0691174652Bryan Caplan, Selfish Reasons To Have More Kids https://www.amazon.com/Selfish-Reasons-Have-More-Kids/dp/0465028616/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1691043786&refinements=p_27%3ABryan+Caplan&s=books&sr=1-2&text=Bryan+CaplanBryan Caplan, Open Borders https://www.amazon.com/Open-Borders-Science-Ethics-Immigration/dp/1250316960/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1691043816&refinements=p_27%3ABryan+Caplan&s=books&sr=1-1&text=Bryan+CaplanBryan Caplan, The Myth of the Rational Voter https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691138732/the-myth-of-the-rational-voterX:Bryan's Twitter: @Bryan_CaplanErik's Twitter: @eriktorenbergUpstream : @upstream__podPlease support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Marc Andreessen of Andreessen Horowitz sits down with Erik Torenberg and his Moment of Zen co-hosts Dan Romero and Antonio Garcia Martinez to discuss AI, religion, San Francisco politics, Eric Voegelin, and life extension. Subscribe to Moment of Zen: https://link.chtbl.com/mozIf you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/upstream--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.--RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriffLINKS:Check out Upstream's first interview with Marc, about Marc's Intellectual Education :Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/0bYfnuju3PhHFtSGgiMmoz?si=ecLDCrn_TLaYa7Bh8Q50qgApple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/marc-andreessen-on-his-intellectual-journey-the-past/id1678893467?i=1000605668194Marc Andreessen, Fighting https://pmarca.substack.com/p/fightingMarc Andreessen, Why AI Will Save The World. https://pmarca.substack.com/p/why-ai-will-save-the-worldEric Voegelin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_VoegelinBook: Regime Change by Patrick J. Deneen https://www.amazon.com/Regime-Change-Toward-Postliberal-Future/dp/0593086902TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode preview(02:30) The evolution of human entertainment from epic poetry to NPC Tiktoks(07:50) Violence is a choice(12:00) True democracy mandates military service as a virtue(16:05) Sponsor: NetSuite(17:22) Can San Francisco be fixed?(28:03) Marc's empirical argument for AI(31:45) Where Sam Harris gets it wrong(35:35) Eric Voegelin's concept of Immanetizing the Eschaton(41:40) What happens to religion after AI(48:54) What would Nietzsche say?(49:44) LLMs are already the subject of a religious war(53:28) What comes after liberalism(01:03:03) Based on Zuck's recent PR success, are alpha males back?(01:07:23) Men’s tailoring and the stripping of masculinity(01:09:50) Is Twitter’s influence the real world? Alana Newhouse on MOZ: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgtPetHBVw&t=349s(01:13:25 ) Is Left vs Right the central conflict of our time?(01:18:30) Life extensionTWITTER:@pmarca (Marc)@eriktorenberg (Erik)@upstream__pod.Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.

We're excited to introduce Upstream listeners to Econ 102 from Turpentine. In episode 1, Noah Smith and Erik Torenberg discuss the highs and lows of Biden's first term, Biden's policies in comparison to previous presidents and other leaders, as well as China - its real estate sector, industrial and manufacturing industries, and its views on tech. If you're looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAMSubscribe to Econ 102 at the podcast platform of your choice: https://link.chtbl.com/Econ102Econ 102 is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn more: www.turpentine.co--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriffTIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode Preview(01:54) Overview of Biden's first term(03:08) The most important thing Biden's done (12:35) What are the chances of Trump returning?(14:03) In the 1970s once again(14:50) Sponsor: NetSuite(17:26) Noah's ideal foreign policy(17:46) Japan's importance in foreign policy(19:29) Main foreign policy concerns in the next cycle(20:46) The ideal containment strategy(22:05) China(26:23) Getting to 1 billion Americans as a foreign policy measure(27:24) Real estate in China(31:02) Comparing and contrasting Chinese and American industrial policy(38:05) China's stomp on the IT industry to encourage manufacturing(39:15)The difference in Chinese and American views of manufacturing (43:18) Revitalizing American manufacturing (47:16) The services industry(49:09) A shortage of human truckers LINKS MENTIONED:Real Estate is China's Economic Achilles Heel: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/real-estate-is-chinas-economic-achillesWhy is China Smashing its Tech Industry: https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/why-is-china-smashing-its-tech-industryNoah Smith's newsletter: https://www.noahpinion.blog/Erik Torenberg's newsletter: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/TWITTER:@noahpinion (Noah)@eriktorenberg (Erik)Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

In this episode, Erik sits down with Agnes Callard to discuss her views on disagreement and progress, her inclination to question and operate outside of accepted societal structures, and why empathy is not always positive. Agnes Callard is a philosopher and essayist who specializes in ancient philosophy, ethics, and Socratic communication. If you're looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAMUpstream is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn about sponsorships, email Erik@turpentine.co or head to www.turpentine.coRECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriffTIMESTAMPS(00:00) Episode Preview(02:45) Progress in philosophy(05:13) Tensions between academic and public philosophy(07:56) Does philosophy make the world a better place?(09:11) Consulting philosophers(11:42) Why don't we go to philosophers instead of therapists?(15:28) Sponsor: NetSuite (16:56) Making the case for philosophy(19:22) Sometimes the more you know ain't so(23:46) Benefit of self-delusion(26:05) What do people misunderstand about Socrates? (27:23) Benefits of conceptual literacy (30:02) Irony in today's culture(35:10) Status games(37:30) Being Straussian vs being sincere(44:15) Is Tyler Cowan Straussian?(46:00) Agnes' investment into the biggest cultural war issues of our time (48:28) Why is John Mill's conception of free speech worn out?(50:12) Free speech is the freedom to listen(52:34) How do we justify hierarchy?(56:59) Equality is not a moral principle (58:14) Darwinian morality(01:01:02) Dark empathy (01:07:11) Intellectual masturbation(01:09:28) Love, marriage, and living philosophically(01:15:48) What are the questions Agnes wants to find answers to?(01:17:20) Did we just do philosophy for the past hour?TWITTER:Agnes' Twitter: @AgnesCallardErik's Twitter: @eriktorenbergUpstream : @upstream__podPlease support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

Erik sits down with writer and political scientist Richard Hanania. This extended discussion encompasses Richard’s intellectual education and views on how the world works, including affirmative action, the dynamic divide between conservatives and liberals, government overreach, geopolitics, and intellectual contemporaries worth reading. If you’re looking for SOC 2, ISO 27001, GDPR or HIPAA compliance, head to Vanta: https://www.vanta.com/1000--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.--Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Vanta  Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.Compliance doesn’t have to be complicated. In fact, with Vanta it can be super simple. Vanta automates the pricey, time-consuming process of prepping for SOC 2, ISO 27001, HIPAA, and more. With Vanta, you can save up to 400 hours and 85% of costs. Vanta scales with your business, helping you successfully enter new markets, land bigger deals, and earn customer loyalty. Bonus? Upstream listeners get $1000 off Vanta. Just go to https://www.vanta.com/zen--RECOMMENDED PODCAST: Every week investor and writer of the popular newsletter The Diff, Byrne Hobart, and co-host Erik Torenberg discuss today’s major inflection points in technology, business, and markets – and help listeners build a diversified portfolio of trends and ideas for the future. Subscribe to “The Riff” with Byrne Hobart and Erik Torenberg: https://link.chtbl.com/theriff--LINKS:Richard’s new book: The Origins of Woke: Civil Rights Law, Corporate America, and the Triumph of Identity Politics Richard Hanania’s Substack: https://www.richardhanania.com/--TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode preview(05:40) Richard on Vivek Ramaswamy(07:20) Diversity and corporate interest(12:10) Wokeness is subsidized by government(18:00) Wokeness as a paper tiger(22:00) Liberal media and Conservative media(31:00) What should the Republican strategy be?(40:00) What is a positive vision rooted in conservative values?(48:00) What are the winning issues for conservatives?(51:00) Crime(01:10:00) Blank Slatism, Charles Murray, and the EA movement(01:14:00) Richard’s geopolitical worldview(01:25:00) Physiognomy of Conservatives and Liberals(01:28:00) Why are we polarized?(01:33:00) Dynamic divide between liberals and conservatives(01:34:00)Richard on Elon(01:40:00) Feminism(02:00:00) Richard on other contemporary intellectuals, including Tyler Cowen, Robin Hanson, Scott Alexander, and more--TWITTER:Richard: @RichardHananiaErik: @ErikTorenberg--Upstream : @upstream__podThis show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.

In this episode, Erik sits down with Balaji Srinivasan to discuss the Fiat Crisis, geopolitics, conspiracies, and the signs of decline for a hyperpower. Balaji is an angel investor, tech founder, philosopher, and author of The Network State. He was formerly the CTO of Coinbase. This riveting conversation is, in many aspects, a follow-up to his appearance on Moment of Zen (see links below). If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAMUpstream is part of the Turpentine podcast network. To learn about sponsorships, email Erik@turpentine.co or head to www.turpentine.co--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.ICYMI: Moment of Zen w/ Balaji Srinivasan: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6tk6DbkVhBlDp1hh8wzIEM?si=NA-oZU6NT7iNTKhX1ixoCQTIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Episode Preview(01:40) What is happening with the Fiat Crisis?(08:52) Balaji’s equivalent premises(11:07) God, State, Network(12:45) Irrational adherence to principles(15:12) Sponsors: Secureframe(16:16) Hyperpower wars 1991-2021(20:05) Economic conclusions(23:12) Blue America is at war with the world(28:30) Cancellation is a weak form of warfare(32:35) Red vs Blue vs Grey America (38:00) Make America states again(39:47) America and India parallels in reverse(43:10) Can America turn around after the next election?(44:25) America and China and Russia | Microsoft and Facebook and Google(46:55) How people react to Balaji’s China stance(52:00) History between Russia and Japan(57:25) Conspiracies(01:04:35) Balaji’s predictions for 2024 & the Fed(01:11:41) Replacing the Dollar networkTWITTER:Balaji’s Twitter: @balajisErik’s Twitter: @eriktorenbergUpstream : @upstream__podSPONSOR:Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Secureframe Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.Secureframe https://secureframe.com/Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust.

This week our guest is Kevin Kelly, the founding executive editor of Wired magazine, technologist, and author. We go into Kevin’s predictions for AI, interspeciation, and how humans need to be having more children. We also talk about practical and unpretentious advice for succeeding, communicating, and being good members of society. If you’re looking for an ERP platform, check out our sponsor, NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/UPSTREAMUpstream is a part of the Turpentine podcast network. Learn more: Turpentine.co--TIMESTAMPS:(00:00) Preview(01:29) Introduction(03:06) Kevin's advice for living and 'advice as a category'(15:55) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury(17:00) Virtue of Natalism(20:42) Future of sentience(26:13) AI safety(31:26) What technology wants(38:03) New mythologies(41:20) Global governance(45:14) Demoralizing FailureLINKS:Kevin Kelly's book: Excellent Advice for Living https://www.amazon.com/Excellent-Advice-Living-Wisdom-Earlier/dp/0593654528TWITTER:Kevin's Twitter: @kevin2kellyErik's Twitter: @eriktorenbergSPONSORS:Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Secureframe | Mercury Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.-Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.- Secureframe: https://secureframe.com/Secureframe is the leading all-in-one platform for security and privacy compliance. Get SOC-2 audit ready in weeks, not months. I believe in Secureframe so much that I invested in it, and I recommend it to all my portfolio companies. Sign up for a free demo and mention UPSTREAM during your demo to get 20% off your first year. Secureframe has just released Secureframe Trust, a new product that lets you showcase your organization's security posture to build customer trust.- Mercury: https://mercury.com/Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks. Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive.Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDICThis show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.Thanks to Graham Bessellieu for production.

Today, we have a special new show to share. The Hill & Valley is a podcast that offers an inside look into how tech and the US government are starting to move closer together and pave the future of American technological leadership and national security. The show is hosted by author and commissioner of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission Jacob Helberg, Varda Space Industries Founder Delian Asparouhov, and Principal at 137 Ventures Christian Garrett. Palmer Luckey is the founder of defense technology company Anduril Industries and Oculus VR. Palmer discusses the future of China-US relations, breakthroughs in DefenseTech, and working with the Department of Defense.--We're hiring across the board at Turpentine and for Erik's personal team on other projects he's incubating. He's hiring a Chief of Staff, EA, Head of Special Projects, Investment Associate, and more. For a list of JDs, check out: eriktorenberg.com.Timestamps:(00:00) Episode Preview(03:10) Shifting dynamics between the government and Silicon Valley since Palmer started Anduril Industries(07:30) Biggest factors contributing to new demand for defense technology(13:42) Working with the U.S. Department of Defense(19:00) Sponsors: Secureframe | Mercury(20:00) Exporting strategic technology to China: patents, AI, sensor fusion(26:00) Lobbying(27:00) Building Anduril Industries on first principles(40:30) Can the US pull off a second Cold War victory with China?(45:00) Immigration reform and supply chain disruption(54:20) Palmer’s picks for the most impactful strategic technology on the horizonSPONSORS:Please support our sponsors: Beehiiv | Shopify | Mercury Head to Beehiiv, the newsletter platform built for growth, to power your own. Connect with premium brands, scale your audience, and deliver a beautiful UX that stands out in an inbox. 🐝to https://Beehiiv.com and use code "UPSTREAM" for 20% off your first three months.-Shopify: https://shopify.com/torenberg for a $1/month trial periodShopify is the global commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business. Shopify powers 10% of all ecommerce in the US. And Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklinen, and 1,000,000s of other entrepreneurs across 175 countries. From their all-in-one ecommerce platform, to their in-person POS system – wherever and whatever you're selling, Shopify's got you covered. Sign up for $1/month trial period: https://shopify.com/torenberg.- Mercury: https://mercury.com/Now more than ever, startup founders need a safe place to put their cash. Mercury protects your money and also provides the streamlined user experience that great founders expect through partner banks and their sweep networks. Mercury offers up to $5 million in FDIC insurance, which is 20 times the per-bank limit. They also make it easy to invest any cash above the FDIC-insured amount in a money market fund, a hundred thousand startups trust Mercury with their finances. I've been a happy Mercury customer and have found their team incredibly helpful and responsive. Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services are provided by Choice Financial Group and involve bank and trust members FDIC.--This show is produced by Turpentine: a network of podcasts, newsletters, and more, covering technology, business, and culture — all from the perspective of industry insiders and experts. We’re launching new shows every week, and we’re looking for industry-leading sponsors — if you think that might be you and your company, email us at erik@turpentine.co.