

The Numinous Podcast
Carmen Spagnola
The Numinous Podcast is a show about intuition, spirituality and the mystery of life. The host, Carmen Spagnola, is an intersectional witch and clinical hypnotherapist who has smart, soulful conversations with interesting people. The lineup is diverse, the topics are eclectic, and the people are down-to-earth (mostly).
Episodes
Mentioned books

Feb 23, 2017 • 54min
TNP71 Kelly Diels on the Female Lifestyle Empowerment Brand
Let’s talk about the connection between “conscious marketing” and Pick Up Artist culture, shall we? You may be surprised to discover that there’s actually quite a clear and direct connection. If you’re an entrepreneur in the personal development or spiritual space, this episode is for you. If you’ve ever been had by a Pick Up Artist (PUA), a narcissist, or experienced buyer’s remorse after a major purchase that involved a charismatic salesperson or coach, this episode is for you.
Kelly Diels is a writer and feminist marketing consultant who has articulated a severely problematic phenomenon she’s named the Female Lifestyle Empowerment Brand, (FLEB), the effects of which can be seen all around us.
FLEB is basically this: a marketing approach leading with beauty, wealth and privilege, constructed as empowerment. In other words, empowerment – which is supposed to be a collective experience of liberation – is presented as an individual experience of wealth and privilege.
In business, spirituality, politics, parenting, and beyond, the FLEB effect is pervasive and harmful. But we can stop supporting it and stop perpetuating it if we know what to look for.
This episode is meant to educate and inoculate.
Read Kelly’s essays on the FLEB and sign up for her newsletter for weekly evolution.
If you’re seeking to transform the way you do business, consider joining Kelly’s Facebook group, How To Sell To Women Without Selling Them Out.
The book Kelly mentions – a big favourite on the podcast – is Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini

Feb 22, 2017 • 41min
TNP70 Sewit Thomas Jones on Lanaguage and Belonging
Today on the podcast I’m speaking with Sewit who goes by the English name, Thomas Jones. Sewit is a scholar of linguistics and I had the opportunity to learn alongside him at a language revitalization workshop called Where Are Your Keys.
As I mentioned in the previous episode, WAYK is a comprehensive method for revitalizing endangered languages and skills. It uses games, tricks and sign language to essentially “hack” second language learning. It was develop by an American fellow named Evan Gardner as a response to the imminent crisis of language loss that so many indigenous communities across North America are facing as elders and conversant speakers die and forget and culture slips away.
In this episode, Sewit introduces me to the concept of "the borrowed child" as a form of intergenerational connection, a concept I personally find fascinating coming from more of a "latch key kid" kind of upbringing.
He also tells a beautiful origin story from the Snuneymuxw people and shares his thoughts on communal living.
Sewit also mentions two other language learning resources you might want to check out if you're interested:
Chief Atahm
Total Physical Response (TPR)
There is a real urgency to language revitalization because the fluent speakers are dying. Sewit is one of only a small number of latent speakers Snuneymuxw. In the past four years, of the ten fluent speakers he could go to for teaching, six have died.
Sewit does voiceover work and you can hear him speaking hən̓q̓əmin̓əm̓ in the show, Warrior Games.
Other resources mentioned in this episode:
First Peoples' Language Map of B.C.
American Indian Language Development Institute
Endangered Language Fund

Feb 18, 2017 • 1h 36min
TNP69- Tiffany Jospeh on Language Land and Everything Important
In this moving and memorable episode, I'm talking with Tiffany Joseph about indigenous language revitalization, sense of place, and navigating settler-indigenous relations with an aim towards Reconciliation. Tiffany is a language scholar and also an astrologer, multi-media artist and blogger.
Full disclosure: I cried fragile white lady tears through pretty much the whole thing.
I can't quite describe how acutely I felt Tiffany's words, how true they felt in my body, how deeply they pierced through my insides.
Give yourself some time to listen carefully to this beautiful offering from Tiffany.
You can read the follow up to this interview on Tiffany's blog: https://netsnetseol.wordpress.com
Follow her astrology work on Facebook.
If you appreciated Tiffany's insights in the episode, you can support her directly through PayPal: PayPal.Me/TiffanyJoseph
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Click here to learn more about Where Are Your Keys? It's not overstatement to say that their method is truly revolutionary and actively helping to save languages from extinction. Check them out, support them and spread the word.

Feb 17, 2017 • 44min
TNP68: Janet Rogers on Art, History and Strong Women
In this free ranging conversation with artist, poet and playwright, Janet Rogers, I have an opportunity to learn about some of the iconic female artists who've inspired some of Janet's work.
We also talk about "feminism" as a concept and a word, and "reconciliation" as a concept and a word, and the notion of land-as-body.
We get down and dirty about land, reparations, equality and activism.
Also notable (for me, anyway), is how my privileged, possessive, white supremacist language which keeps slipping out – I can't seem to stop myself from referring to everything and everyone as "our", as in, the colonial "our". Ugh.
Anyway, I do my best. I receive feedback. I apologize. It still pains me to hear it, though. It's what I suppose they call a "teachable moment" and I appreciate Janet for pointing it out and for being patient.
Eden Robinson, mentioned by Janet in this interview, is a member of the Haisla and Heiltsuk First Nations and a prolific author.
You can follow Janet on Facebook and purchase her books online at Indigo. In this interview, Janet read from her newest work, Totem Poles and Railroads. Yes, I cried.

Feb 14, 2017 • 1h 16min
TNP67 Confronting Whiteness with Rachael Rice and Marybeth Bonfiglio
I'm not gonna lie. This one's a doozy. In this episode of the podcast, I am the guest and I say the F word and several other swear words, a lot.
The full-length version of this conversation was published in video form as part of Rachael Rice's series, Confronting Whiteness.
I met Rachael and Marybeth online and we became familiar with each other's work through Facebook conversations. It was evident to me from the beginning that these are women who know what time it is (#revolutiontime). If you're on Insta, you should definitely follow them.
In this conversation, I tell the story of The Racist Dinner Party and I rant about white fragility in Well-intentioned White Women Sisterhood spaces.
I make the case for developing a more mature and nuanced relationship with shame and honour, and I implore white women to become more resilient when it comes to racial conversations.
Here are the excellent resources cited in this episode:
The Roots Of Addiction In Free Market Society
Decolonization Is Not A Metaphor
The Bluest I Blog by Michelle R Smith
Is Shame Necessary?: New Uses For An Old Tool by Jennifer Jacquet

Feb 14, 2017 • 1h 6min
TNP66 Aftab Erfan on Safe Spaces
I'm so pleased to welcome to the podcast, Aftab Erfan, Director of Dialogue and Conflict Engagement at the University of British Columbia.
Aftab is an experienced facilitator and longtime trainer of the Lewis Method of Deep Democracy.
When you watch the video clips at the top of the DeepDemocracy.ca website, you can see me standing behind her business partner and co-facilitator, Sera, who is speaking animatedly. She's "amplifying" Jeremy - one of the tools used in this facilitation method to quickly get to the heart of a matter. My face is cropped, I'm wearing a white blouse, hands in pockets. My posture pretty much says everything about what I think of "hope" in the context of the Is Hope Bullshit? Civic Dialogue they convened. My feelings about hope have evolved a bit since then. It was a life-changing day. Myrna Lewis, (co-developer of the Lewis Method), is just to the left of screen wearing taupe, hand on her necklace.
The book Aftab references in this episode is called Conflict Is Not Abuse: Overstating Harm, Community Responsibility, and the Duty of Repair by Sarah Schulman. Sounds like essential reading.
Along with Jessie Hemphill (my guest on TNP65), Aftab co-facilitated a Civic Dialogue I convened in my hometown called Yes, I'm Privileged. Now What? I received a lot of feedback from that event, all of it positive. Since then, I've seen it galvanize members of my community around social justice in a way they didn't before. Many have told me it was the experience they needed in order to show up and speak up and put their privilege to work on behalf of marginalized populations.
If your organization has the funding and desire to tackle hard topics in order to move forward together, you should definitely reach out to her.

Feb 8, 2017 • 49min
TNP65: Jessie Hemphill on Walking Between The Worlds
Today I'm talking to my girl, Jessie Hemphill, and we're having a warm and wonderful conversation. It's like we're all sitting down for tea and Jessie's telling us stories about growing up Gwa'sala-'Nakwaxd'axw and Métis in rural coastal Canada while passing for white.
We hear a bit about 'Nakwaxd'axw mythology, what her Indigenous name means, how she became a politician, and what it means to do urban planning using culturally-based Indigenous planning processes.
Finally, I tell the story of how I became infatuated with met Jessie and she changed the course of my life with some magic words. Then we dish about our unhealthy ways of coping with grief and rage. In the end, it's abundantly clear how much we love each other and this whole show is just a meeting of our mutual appreciation society.
You should definitely learn more about Jessie and recommend her company to any community that is looking for a facilitator who can sit in the truth and hold space in the heart of the matter.

Sep 22, 2016 • 1h 8min
TNP64: Learning To See In The Dark
This special episode is a recording of an hour-long keynote address I gave in the fall of 2016. The title of the talk is, "Learning To See In The Dark: Reclaiming Our Power, Transforming Our World".
It's a deep dive into the Dark Woman archetype, how she shows up in our lives, why she is so feared and what her purpose is in transforming our lives and our world.
For further reading:
Charlene Spretnak
Jean Shinoda Bolen
Demetra George
Caroline Casey
Carol Leonard & Elizabeth Davis
Peggy Reeves Sanday
Marije Gimbutas

Aug 30, 2016 • 58min
TNP63: Healing The Abandonment Wound {Special Mini-Series Part 3 of 3}
Explore the spiritual dimensions of abandonment and its emotional challenges. Learn a transpersonal therapy approach tailored for spiritually intuitive clients. Delve into the five stages of abandonment, processing pain, and nurturing the inner child. Discover techniques for self-compassion and acceptance, along with creative visualization tools for emotional growth. A metaphorical journey using a house guides listeners to rebuild their sense of self, fostering resilience and joy in the healing process.

Aug 18, 2016 • 33min
TNP62: Healing the Abandonment Wound {Special Mini Series Part 2 of 3}
Dive into the complexities of attachment and its deep ties to addiction and emotional health. Discover how childhood experiences shape our relationships and influence self-esteem. The podcast also examines the historical context of abandonment and its effects, including a fascinating look at the Orkney Islanders and their struggles. With thought-provoking insights, personal stories, and recommended readings, listeners gain a richer understanding of how connection and community play pivotal roles in healing and overcoming trauma.