Heroes & Humans of Football

Fifty years ago this week, Johan Cruyff took one of the most exciting teams in football history to the 1974 World Cup final. But his Holland lost to West Germany, largely because of what has gone down in Dutch history as “The Swimming Pool Affair” – a German tabloid’s front-page scoop that cost Cruyff great anguish and many hours in a phone booth calling his furious wife. We tell the story of Dutch “total football”, of the rock-star team that lived it large both on the field and off it, of the manager who was simultaneously coaching FC Barcelona, and of Johan Cruyff himself: the man who invented modern football, and fought with everybody, including with his biggest fan, Simon. Timestamps:00:00:29 - Introduction to the story of the 1974 Dutch national team and Johan Cruyff00:02:23 - Explanation of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style00:03:19 - Background on the development of "total football" in Amsterdam00:08:18 - Discussion of Cruyff's upbringing and early career with Ajax00:10:05 - Cruyff's childhood and the impact of his father's death00:11:30 - Introduction of Rinus Michels as Ajax manager00:14:01 - Development of Ajax's new playing style under Michels and Cruyff00:15:29 - Description of the dynamic between Cruyff and Michels00:19:07 - Lead-up to the 1974 World Cup and the Dutch team's preparations00:24:36 - Context of the 1974 World Cup in West Germany00:27:02 - Description of the Dutch team's behaviour during the World Cup00:28:17 - Cruyff's unconventional decisions in team selection00:30:31 - Discussion of the Dutch team's appearance and iconic orange jerseys00:33:03 - Description of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style in action00:36:07 - The "swimming pool affair" and its impact on Cruyff before the final00:43:03 - The World Cup final against West Germany00:45:55 - Aftermath of the final and Dutch reaction to finishing second00:47:20 - Legacy of the 1974 Dutch team and Cruyff's impact on football00:49:28 - Simon's experience interviewing Cruyff years later and subsequent falloutJoin the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Afghan women’s national team doesn’t exist – not according to FIFA, anyway. The Taliban banned women's football when they took control of Afghanistan in 2021, forcing the team to flee the country for fear of their lives. But FIFA now refuses to recognise the team in exile, allowing the Taliban to continue their gender apartheid. Today, the team is fighting for FIFA recognition and their place in football. Living in exile and risking their lives to play football, the Afghan women's players are determined to return to the international game.Mehreen and Simon talk to Khalida Popal, the woman who defied the country's misogynistic norms to set up the national team. She became the first female captain, coach, and executive in Afghanistan's history. This is a story of a team’s courage and comradery in the face of death threats and sexual assaults.To support the Afghan women's team in their fight for recognition, you can sign this petition and follow Khalida Popal on LinkedIn: https://www.change.org/p/fifacom-standwithafghanwomen-recognise-afghanistan-women-s-national-football-team-in-exile-follow-alivekicking23https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalida-popal-64a29176?originalSubdomain=dkTimestamps:00:00:02 - Introduction to the episode about Afghanistan's women's football team00:03:47 - Khalida Popal joins to discuss founding the team00:03:55 - Growing up in Afghanistan before the Taliban00:05:09 - Early exposure to football in Afghanistan 00:06:09 - Returning to Afghanistan after 2001 and facing resistance to women playing football00:08:56 - Setting up a girls' football team at school despite challenges00:12:51 - Men discover and threaten the girls playing football00:14:57 - Story of a teammate forced to stop playing by her family00:18:06 - Establishing the Afghan women's national team00:21:07 - Negotiating with the Afghan Football Federation for recognition00:25:16 - Difficulties of managing the national team and facing abuse00:30:10 - Fleeing Afghanistan due to death threats00:33:56 - Evacuating players as Taliban returned to power in 202100:41:29 - Current players describe obstacles they faced playing in Afghanistan00:43:01 - Players' experiences when Taliban took over in 202100:45:04 - Campaign for FIFA to recognise the exiled Afghan women's team00:48:03 - FIFA's lack of response to requests for recognitionJoin the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's bizarre how long it took Argentinians to learn to love Leo Messi. His exile from his declining homeland always made him suspect. The comparison with Maradona hung over him from the start. And why was he hardly ever as good for Argentina as he was for Barcelona? We tell the story of the world's best player's complex relationship with his own country, and how it finally had a happy end.Timestamps:00:00:02 - Introduction00:01:18 - Messi's fraught relationship with Argentina00:06:24 - Messi as the embodiment of the Pibe archetype00:11:36 - Messi's early international career and struggles with Argentina00:18:52 - 2014 World Cup and Argentina's attempt at a "Messi strategy"00:24:06 - 2014 World Cup disappointment and Messi's frustrations00:29:19 - Psychoanalysis of Messi's perceived lack of Argentinian-ness00:36:58 - Messi finally wins Copa America in 202100:39:35 - 2022 World Cup in Qatar and initial struggles00:40:24 - Argentina's resurgence and Messi's leadership00:42:15 - Winning the 2022 World Cup as a team00:44:26 - Messi's place in Argentinian history compared to Maradona00:46:10 - Speculation on Messi's life without football00:48:02 - Would the hosts want to hang out with Messi?Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Gareth Southgate's tactical and managerial qualities still split fan opinion as he leads England in his fourth major tournament at the Euros in Germany this summer. But one thing that can't be disputed is Southgate's ability to unite his players in a team whose confidence has been battered by two decades of under-achievment. The former Aston Villa captain has been a leading voice against racism directed at young black English players and is arguably redefining the notion of Englishness in modern Britain. Simon and Mehreen discuss the steps and experiences that how Southgate came to manage another golden generation of English footballers, growing up in a respectable family in South London, learning from the negatives, and bouncing back from *that* penalty miss in Euro '96. But will Gareth Southgate go down in history as a unifying England manager or just another nearly-ran? Timecodes:00:00:43 - Proposition: Gareth Southgate is a very laudable, commendable figure, but is he a national hero or overhyped mediocrity?00:02:22 - Southgate's background and upbringing in Crawley00:05:52 - Joining Crystal Palace as an apprentice and experiencing class division00:08:31 - Southgate's playing career at Palace, Villa, and Middlesbrough00:12:04 - First meeting with Southgate and the Euro 1996 penalty miss00:19:25 - John Major's encouragement after the penalty miss00:22:22 - Southgate's unfulfilled club career and disappointment00:27:56 - Becoming England manager in 2016 after a national humiliation00:33:06 - Resetting expectations and creating a high-performance culture00:39:20 - 2018 World Cup and learning to love the new England team00:43:16 - Black Lives Matter movement and Southgate's stance00:50:00 - Euro 2020 final against Italy and the penalty misses00:54:10 - Expectations for the 2022 World Cup and Southgate's limitations01:00:22 - Southgate's vision of an inclusive and modern Englishness01:04:34 - Conclusion and Southgate's potential legacyJoin the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On the eve of Euro 2024, Henry talks about nearly 30 years of dealing with England managers and players, from Glenn Hoddle to Harry Kane - with some very kind words for Jack Grealish.Henry Winter is one of the best known and most respected journalists in the English language. Having covered football for over 38 years, conducted over 1500 interviews, and attended thousands of matches, Henry might have a story or two to share. In this episode, we talk to Henry about football journalism, how it's changed over the decades, and the rise of modern media, as well as how he navigates the complicated relationships that journalists have with players and managers.Timestamps:00:13:06 Discussion about how football clubs and players are doing more community work than the government, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic.00:16:22 Reflection on the changing relationship between football players and the press, from adversarial in the past to more cooperative now.00:17:14 Discussion on the growth of fan-related content and how it reflects fans' frustration with mainstream media.00:21:28 Admission of making a mistake by making fun of Ronaldo's weight on Twitter, learning a lesson about not personalising criticism.00:22:39 Reflection on the moral substance of many football players, particularly in contrast to politicians.00:27:14 Discussion about the most interesting people to meet in football, including Sir Alex Ferguson, Pele, and Jurgen Klopp.00:29:57 Talk about who is best at discussing football itself, mentioning Glenn Hoddle and other players who didn't have much pace but became good managers.00:30:56 Question about who one would be happy never to see again, with a reluctant mention of FIFA president Gianni Infantino.00:31:33 Suggestion: Jurgen Klopp is one of the most misunderstood people in football, with more science behind his emotional style than people realise.00:33:34 Discussion about England's chances in Euro 2024, praising players like Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden, and Declan Rice.00:34:48 Talk about how social media affects players' mental health, with many going off social media due to abuse and intensity.00:36:52 Pondering what one would be doing if not a football writer, suggesting possibly stacking shelves at Selfridges.Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jude Bellingham could go down as the best English player to never play in the Premier League, but how did he go from a shy and polite young boy from Stourbridge, to an integral part of Real Madrid's push for the Champions League title this season?This episode describes the careful and precise decisions of Jude Bellingham's career so far that have led him to the biggest stage of world football, despite still being 20 years old. From the thinking behind his shirt number at Birmingham, to rejecting England's biggest clubs in favour of a move to Germany. Timestamps:00:00:00 - Introduction to the podcast episode on Jude Bellingham.00:02:07 - Discussing Bellingham being compared to the fictional character Roy of the Rovers.00:07:00 - Bellingham's background and upbringing in Birmingham.00:10:12 - Insights from Bellingham's youth coach Paul Robinson on coaching him at Birmingham City.00:16:13 - Bellingham's decision to join Borussia Dortmund instead of clubs like Manchester United and Chelsea.00:22:48 - Bellingham's time at Borussia Dortmund and his relationship with players like Erling Haaland.00:29:27 - Bellingham's performance at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.00:32:07 - Bellingham's transfer to Real Madrid in 2023.00:41:44 - Bellingham's incredible goalscoring form for Real Madrid in his first season.00:49:54 - Discussion on Bellingham's potential legacy and future.00:57:20 - The rising trend of incredibly talented young footballers emerging at a very young age.01:05:00 - Speculating on what profession Bellingham could have pursued if not football.Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Carlo Ancelotti, son of poor Italian farmers, could be about to win a record fifth Champions League with Real Madrid. That’s pretty good for a guy whose managerial career started with him refusing to sign Roberto Baggio. This episode describes how the nicest man in football learned how to handle the egomaniacs around him, give players the power, and always made sure that everybody ate well together. The secrets of “quiet leadership” all around the world, from the coach whose own role model is Vito Corleone.Timestamps:0:00 - Introduction to the episode on Carlo Ancelotti0:29 - Ancelotti's background as a player and coach who won multiple Champions Leagues2:21 - Ancelotti's qualities of being funny and having empathy2:59 - Ancelotti's early life and family background in a farming village in Italy6:22 - Ancelotti's time playing for Arrigo Sacchi's revolutionary AC Milan team9:27 - How Ancelotti dealt with egos like Silvio Berlusconi as a player at Milan11:51 - Ancelotti's early coaching jobs and transition to a more flexible style14:50 - Ancelotti getting fired just before halftime at Juventus 16:31 - Ancelotti's successful stint at AC Milan as a manager winning the Champions League19:00 - Ancelotti's time at Chelsea and getting fired in the tunnel after winning the double22:19 - Ancelotti building Paris Saint-Germain into a top club after their takeover25:39 - How Ancelotti managed egos like Zlatan Ibrahimovic at PSG28:19 - Ancelotti's first stint at Real Madrid and his relationship with Cristiano Ronaldo  34:49 - Ancelotti's short tenures at Bayern Munich, Napoli and Everton36:57 - Ancelotti breaking his Champions League wins record in his second Real Madrid stint39:41 - Ancelotti's empathetic man-management style with players like Vinicius Jr, Bellingham44:13 - Ancelotti potentially becoming Brazil's next manager46:27 - Discussion on Ancelotti's leadership style and legacyJoin the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club!Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action?By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you.Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast.Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumansFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this intriguing discussion, Mohammed bin Salman, the millennial crown prince of Saudi Arabia and owner of Newcastle United, reveals his unexpected role in global football. Despite lacking a passion for the sport, he’s pouring billions into it, reshaping the industry with high-profile signings like Cristiano Ronaldo and Neymar. The conversation delves into his authoritarian rise to power, his controversial reputation following the Khashoggi incident, and his aims to leverage sports for political gain, all while navigating complex global perceptions.

Jürgen Klopp, the charismatic football manager known for his impactful leadership at Liverpool, reflects on his transformative journey from player to coach. He shares insights on his unique leadership style, emphasizing empathy and community engagement that won him loyalty. Klopp discusses the challenges of his early life, his cultural roots, and the evolution of his coaching philosophy. Speculation about his future post-Liverpool adds intrigue, while stories of his iconic moments illuminate the personal connections he fostered with fans and players alike.

Hakan Şükür is Turkey’s greatest ever footballer, highest goalscorer, and still the man who holds the record for scoring the fastest goal in a World Cup after just 11 seconds in 2002. But for the last nine years, he’s been living in self-imposed exile in the US, moonlighting as an Uber driver, and having his legacy wiped from the records of Turkish football history. Turkey’s ruling AKP party has branded him a “terrorist”, and even saying his name on TV can get you the sack, as one commentator found out during the Qatar World Cup. This is the story of a footballing hero who has suffered a humbling fall caused by politics, upheaval and a failed coup in Turkey. Şükür, whose father was born in Bosnia and his mother in North Macedonia, helped Turkey finish third in the 2002 World Cup and led his Galatasaray team to a UEFA Cup triumph in 2000 – the first European trophy won by a Turkish domestic side and the high watermark of Turkish football this century. Known as the “Bull of the Bosphorus” for his goal-scoring instincts, Şükür combined his football career with membership of Turkey’s Hizmet movement, a religious organisation led by Islamic scholar, Fethullah Gulen, which has been dubbed as part of Turkey’s “deep state”. The movement recruited lawyers, civil servants, politicians and footballers – and were active in the Galatasaray changing room in the 2000s, says author and anthropologist John McManus. During the 90s and 2000s, Şükür is a Turkish superstar, and Gulen is allied with Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the leader of the conservative AKP party, who became prime minister in 2003 and the country’s current president. After retiring from football in 2007, Şükür became a member of parliament for Erdogan’s party while retaining his Gulen affiliations, but claims he was always a reluctant politician. In 2013, Gulen and Erdogan have a spectacular fall-out and Şükür, a national hero, is caught in the middle of an internecine struggle for power and influence in Turkey. In 2015, he flees to the US after being prosecuted over a tweet which “insults the president”. Şükür would never return to his homeland. The episode charts the spectacular cancellation of a footballing icon whose political allegiances put him on the wrong side of an increasingly authoritarian government. In telling his story, Simon and Mehreen attempt to uncancel Hakan Şükür.Timestamps:00:00 - Introduction to the episode on Hakan Şükür01:23 - Simon's first impression of watching Şükür play for Turkey02:00 - Şükür's peak at the 2002 World Cup  04:25 - Şükür's background and early career06:25 - The "Welcome to Hell" match between Galatasaray and Manchester United11:23 - Şükür's performance at the 2002 World Cup, including scoring the fastest ever World Cup goal14:04 - Explanation of the Gulen movement and Şükür's involvement23:54 - How Şükür likely got recruited into the Gulen movement  27:52 - Şükür's career after retirement and move into politics31:04 - Breakdown of Şükür's relationship with Erdogan starting in 201334:15 - The failed 2016 coup attempt and Şükür being branded a terrorist  38:20 - Şükür living in exile in the US and working jobs like an Uber driver41:40 - Şükür continues to criticise Erdogan from exile despite threats44:36 - Discussion on whether Şükür can ever return to TurkeyFollow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices