The Gwart Show | Bitcoin Tech & Culture

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Liam from Through (formerly Fire Dancer engineer) joins us to talk about building a high-performance L1 blockchain from scratch. We dive into why Solana has structural limitations, his leaderless consensus design, proof-of-burn mechanisms, and why economic security is overrated. Plus takes on trading, Fire Dancer's progress, and the future of DeFi. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com NOTES: • Fire Dancer has ~10% of Solana network • Through team is only 5 people currently • Testnet launching in 1-2 months timeline • SDK support targeting July release • Solana chain halts if clients disagree • Economic security was higher than ETH Timestamps 00:00 Start 00:12 Liam's background 02:18 Early trading 03:13 Firedancer experience 03:58 What's Unto? 05:40 Solana L1 limitations 08:07 Applications 09:51 CLOB wars 11:58 Proof of stake flaws 18:23 Multiple concurrent proposers 21:38 Burn design 25:27 Improvements in trading 27:47 Commodities on chain 30:08 Onto chain performance 32:52 Performant L1 chain competition 35:38 Desired apps 38:00 Firedancer progress & marketshare 42:10 Decentralization & price discovery 45:57 The value of a market 50:10 MEV on Solana 53:56 L1 token value 1:01:28 Through updates 1:03:42 Wrap up The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume.They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Bitcoiner Post Capone joins us to talk about the risks of OP_CAT activation, MEV extraction concerns on Bitcoin, how increased expressivity could lead to mining centralization, the promise of scaling solutions like Arc and Spark, and why constrained covenants like CTV might be a better path forward than unlimited expressivity. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:27 Who is Post Capone? 03:05 OP_CAT 07:11 Erosion of MEV 11:29 Expressivity of OP_CAT 20:56 Execution on L2 23:33 Elipsis Labs 24:33 OP_CAT vs CTV 28:20 What should be on Bitcoin? 35:32 Stablecoin Maxi 38:42 Programmatic lending contracts 40:30 Ark 44:14 BitVM 47:02 Scaling solution adoption 50:07 Oden.fun54:12 Rollups The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs, which is building Atlas, a blockchain for verifiable finance. Ellipsis Labs is known for Phoenix, an on-chain orderbook DEX with over $50 billion in unincentivized volume. They are a top crypto team. Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance for Atlas. Learn more and apply on Twitter at @Ellipsis_Labs. Check out Atlas at @atlasxyz. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Wilson Huang from DRW Cumberland joins us to talk about the explosive growth of Bitcoin options markets, why crypto volatility attracts both miners and hedge funds, how ETFs are reshaping institutional adoption, and why traditional finance principles are finally making sense in digital assets. We dive deep into market structure, OTC trading, and the future of crypto derivatives. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: • Bitcoin dominates 90% of crypto options volume • DRW started 30 years ago in CME trading pits • ETF volumes reached historic highs recently • Crypto vol trades in 40-60% range typically • Cumberland handles thousands of BTC clips OTC • Mining companies hedge at specific cost levels Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:48 Background 02:04 Crypto options markets 04:52 Requirements for a good options market 10:13 How exposed are miners? 19:05 OTC 21:24 Custody 29:53 Spot selling 36:13 Coinbase buying Deribit 41:40 Options & DeFi 45:02 Perpetuals 49:11 The future 👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here. Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Smac, partner at Compound VC, joins us to talk about why stablecoins have become the dominant crypto narrative despite being "boring fintech," DePIN opportunities in energy and water networks, venture capital market structure issues with massive fund sizes, the lack of creativity in crypto development, and why most social crypto apps are features not companies.  Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Follow our guest on Twitter: @0xsmac Notes: • Compound VC focuses on pre-seed/seed stage investments • $100M checks at $3B valuations more like growth investing • Stablecoins captured outsized narrative due to lack of innovation • Virtual power plants represent distributed energy networks • Crypto needs more non-crypto native talent for creativity Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:16 Who is Smac? 01:53 Market overview 03:25 Are stablecoins the killer use case? 06:09 Stablecoin are just FinTech 09:51 Let a thousand stablecoins bloom 13:16 Decentralization & stablecoins 16:04 Users don't care about centralization 21:47 Worldcoin 24:20 DePin 25:19 Virtual power plants 30:20 ElLipsis Labs 31:21 Water harvesting 34:17 Venture funding is too high 41:21 Funding NOT infrastructure projects 43:25 What's interesting? 52:23 Friend.Tech 1:01:24 Wrap up 👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here. Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, Ethereum bull Ryan Berckmans joins us to dissect Ethereum's current strategy and why he believes it remains on the right path despite recent challenges. Ryan explains the "hub and spokes" L1+L2 model, arguing that communication failures—not technical problems—damaged ETH sentiment. He breaks down why L2 growth combined with L1 scaling will drive Ethereum toward becoming a multi-trillion dollar asset, how blob fees will generate significant revenue, and why Solana's success doesn't threaten Ethereum's long-term dominance in the institutional market. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com # Notes: • L2s like Base hit 100M+ in Bitcoin-backed loans • World L2 has 12M verified humans with 25M accounts • Ethereum plans to scale to 48 blobs per block • Current blob usage at ~80% full (2.4 per block) • Rollups may pay ~30% of revenue for blob space • Median user fees could remain at ~$0.01 with scale Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:22 Who is Ryan B? 01:12 Why bullish on ETH? 06:38 Failure to communicate 11:01 Is this a pivot? 18:32 Justin Drake is bad at PR 24:31 Lido 28:05 Solo staking 31:50 It's all SOL's fault 33:03 Vitalik changing narratives 35:14 Thoughts on Solana 44:03 WHY NGU now? 48:50 Blobs need to pay up 👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here. Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to The Gwart Show! Today, Noah Goldberg of Theia Research, joins us to dive deep into the world of liquid token markets. Noah breaks down why the "token premium" is unsustainable, how his firm evaluates fundamental value in DeFi applications, and why the market structure creates perverse incentives. He explains why on-chain finance hasn't supplanted traditional finance as quickly as many expected, discusses problems with market making in crypto, and offers insight into how crypto can build sustainable moats. A must-listen for understanding crypto's real financial underpinnings. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: • Token premium is unsustainable long-term • RTV (Revenue to Transaction Volume) models for L1s • Market makers often artificially prop up token prices • Money markets account for $800B in traditional finance • Most tokens are marked at unrealistic valuations • Venture investors create circular valuation patterns Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:37 Who is Noah? 02:36 Why Liquid? 05:03 Tokens vs equity 09:03 Token premium 12:25 Are tokens irrational? 17:55 Why isn't RadFi embracing DeFi? 23:26 Global investor base for tokens 25:46 Infrastructure apps 29:30 Cash flow modeling 31:31 REV on L1 32:32 Investing in L1s & REV 35:46 Is the market valuing REV? 39:16 Unitoken 42:43 Uniswap valuation vs equity 45:53 Token moats 48:18 Liquidity as moat 58:50 Improvements for markets 1:02:00 Market making vs token price 1:06:29 Whay are weak tokens valued so high? 1:11:28 Value of low liquidity tokens 👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here. Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Santisa @Tiza4ThePeople from Lucidity joins us to discuss market neutral strategies in DeFi. He breaks down how his fund extracts alpha from stablecoin pairs and incentive programs while maintaining a risk-neutral position. We dive into the sophistication behind monitoring protocols, identifying opportunities through on-chain analysis, and why DeFi tokens rarely represent true equity value. Santisa explains why his fund immediately dumps governance tokens, how they achieved double digit APY with "negligible risk," and why Bitcoin remains his primary conviction despite years in the DeFi ecosystem. Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com Notes: - Fund achieved 21.3% APY with "negligible risk" - Stablecoin strategies focus on risk-adjusted returns - DeFi getting safer but smart contract risks remain - Massive accounts ($40-50M) farming UniChain - Athena paying up to 39-40% yields initially - Most DeFi tokens lack fundamental value connection Timestamps: 00:00 Start 00:28 Santisa's story 01:48 Lucidity 02:22 What's a market neutral strategy? 03:50 Can a pleb trade market neutral? 06:33 Long or short ETH? 08:10 Structure risk strategies 10:22 Unichain 12:46 Farm & dump 12:57 Farming in size 15:15 Market maturity & deal killers 19:10 Covering hacking losses 23:18 USDC pairs & incentives 24:40 Are you long ANY asset? 25:46 Bearish DeFi tokens 27:24 Any hope for DeFi tokens? 31:14 It's a Bitcoin market, hop on 33:51 Maker DAO buy back model 36:46 Athena is NOT a stablecoin 39:20 Athena farming 41:06 Athena token losing value 42:49 Token vs VC money burn 45:16 What is actually exciting 47:17 SOL 48:48 Future of Lucidity? 50:40 Identifying opportunities 52:21 Outperforming BTC 56:14 Is crypto VS over? 👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter. Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here. Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Haseeb, a seasoned crypto VC, teams up with Tarun Chitra for a lively debate on the true value of tokens and the role of venture capital in crypto. They tackle pressing questions about whether tokens are sustainable investments and if VCs bring genuine signal value. The conversation gets spicy as they examine market dynamics, the contrast between Bitcoin and altcoins, and the challenges facing governance tokens. With Tarun moderating, the tension between optimism and skepticism in the crypto world becomes palpable.

Welcome back to the Gwart Show! Today we have Haseeb Qureshi and Tarun Chitra about whether VC-funded tokens are vaporware or valuable investments. They tackle fundamental questions about crypto market structure, token valuation models, and the long-term economics of L1 blockchains. Is there a carrying capacity for tokens? Are smart contract platforms overvalued? Will L1s converge to their utility value or maintain monetary premiums?Subscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.com# Notes:- Crypto market caps follow power law distribution- Solana valued at ~$80 billion despite skepticism- Stablecoin market grew from $130B to $240B- Bitcoin dominance may increase over time- Most tokens trending down in USD since launch- L1 valuation combines utility, equity & monetary useTimestamps:00:00 Start03:09 Infinite tokens - Haseeb06:10 Infinite tokens - Gwart09:55 Infinite tokens - discussion11:47 How to value a token21:32 Proof of stake30:02 Staking pro & con33:38 ETH value35:18 ETH is money (or not)39:20 Value of new L1s44:44 ROI for tokens46:33 REV50:46 Payments.. meh👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to The Gwart Show! Today, Jarry Xiao, co-founder and engineering lead at Ellipsis Labs, joins to chat tradfi to crypto infrastructure. Jarry dives deep into Phoenix, their central limit order book on Solana, and introduces Atlas - their purpose-built blockchain for financial applications. The conversation touches blockchain trading challenges, the economics of validator networks, and why truly effective trading systems require opinionated design.Follow our guest on Twitter! https://x.com/jarxiao?lang=enSubscribe to the newsletter! https://newsletter.blockspacemedia.comNotes:- Phoenix did $70B+ in organic trading volume- Solana's 400ms blocks still too slow for HFT- Atlas uses single verifiable sequencer model- Market makers need priority cancellations- Blockchain revenue sustainability questionable- MEV/sandwiching not sustainable for financeTimestamps:00:00 Start00:33 Who is Jarray?01:09 TradFi experience01:50 What was Jarry trading?03:23 Phoenix order book06:45 Aggregators10:31 Open validator set blockchain13:15 Market making on SOL17:05 Atlas20:57 Limitations of SOL25:02 Rejecting SOL base assumptions28:09 What does Atlas unlock?34:46 Purpose built?36:31 Opinion sequencing37:53 Multiple use cases42:37 Stock market on-chain46:53 Why L2 sequencer design?54:11 Memecoins here to stay1:04:39 Why did it take so long?👋 The Gwart Show is sponsored by Ellipsis Labs. Ellipsis Labs is building Atlas, the blockchain purpose-built for verifiable finance. You may know of Ellipsis Labs by their first product Phoenix, a fully on-chain orderbook DEX that’s done over 50 billion dollars in unincentivized volume. They are one of the strongest teams I know in crypto. If you’re interested in working for a mission-driven company, Ellipsis Labs is hiring engineers passionate about crypto and finance to work on Atlas. You can learn more and apply on Ellipsis Labs’ Twitter “at Ellipsis_Labs”. Don’t forget to check out Atlas too, @atlasxyz on Twitter.Enjoy the show? Check out our website and newsletter by clicking here.Questions or want to sponsor? hello@blockspace.media Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices