Quick to Listen

It’s just days after the worst mass shooting in American history on a church property. As CT reported earlier this week: "At least 26 worshipers, ranging in ages from 5 to 72, have died from First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs, according to Texas authorities. Another 20 worshipers were injured." Read Bart Barber’s response to the Sutherland Springs shootings: A Small Rural Church Is Hard to Kill Increasingly, the aftermath of these shootings has devolved into a furious national debate over guns, with little consensus or resolution in sight. Christians need to step up and moderate the rhetoric, says Bart Barber, who pastors a Baptist church in Texas and holds a PhD in church history from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. “The more that those calling for gun control legislation mock those calling for prayer, the less likely constructive dialogue is,” said Barber. “The more people calling for Second Amendment protection bristle at taking common-sense measures and castigate people as out-of-touch, unrealistic, wild-eyed liberals, the less likely we are to have a constructive conversation.” Barber’s church includes many gun owners, including those who bring their weapons to church. While he doesn’t directly preach about guns, he has taught on passages of the Bible that discuss revenge, the role of authority, and Christ’s teaching on how to treat one’s enemies. “There will be people all over the country this week that go to church Sunday carrying a concealed weapon, telling themselves, ‘If this comes to my congregation, protecting my children is going to be more than lying on top of them. If this comes to my congregation, the people sitting next to me in the pews, I’m going to do something to try to save them,’” said Barber. “In the back of the mind they may be saying, ‘and save me too,’ but this is the way the theological conversation takes place.” Barber recently joined associate digital media producer Morgan Lee and editorial director Ted Olsen to discuss the United States’ historical relationship with guns, the role that Quakers played in passing the Second Amendment, and why evangelicals continue to own guns today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In October, Nepal criminalized Christian conversion and evangelism. The law criminalizes sharing one’s faith and threatens would-be lawbreakers with fines of more than $700 and up to five years in prison. Support for anti-conversion laws isn’t limited to Nepal’s secular government. CT’s coverage of Nepal’s decision was shared by Hindu nationalist activists hoping to convince the Indian government to make the same decision. Anti-conversion laws already exist in nearby Sri Lanka, and the State Department has previously flagged them and blasphemy laws as some of its biggest concerns for religious freedom globally. These laws are a result of the fallen human condition, says Chris Seiple, the president emeritus of the Institute for Global Engagement, a religious freedom advocacy group. “It’s a rare thing when you don’t have immaturity and insecurity among the majority,” said Seiple. “To have that type of security and accept other faiths and to allow for free competition of ideas and beliefs as good for the country is not the norm.” Seiple suggests that the story of Jesus talking to the woman at the well is a model for those who do wish to share their faith in countries hostile to religious freedom. “If we can be in conversations, we can be a position to evangelize, not proselytize, when we’ve earned the right to speak into a relationship,” he said. Seiple joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss if there’s ever an upside to anti-conversion laws, how politics and culture enable or discourage these measures, and how to change a government’s mind on religious freedom. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Next month, the half-a-billion-dollar, genre-busting, and technologically groundbreaking Museum of the Bible will open its doors in Washington, DC. Here’s what visitors can expect, courtesy of our November cover story: Looking up, a visitor might see a sprawling digital canopy of trees, one of five possible scenes playing on a ceiling-mounted 140-foot-long LED display. The light emitted by the false sky intensifies in surrounding glass walls and polished floors; bystanders are awash in illumination. At the end of the hall, a floating staircase winds up into the air without the aid of steel supports; docents clad in Ancient Near Eastern garb shuffle by to assume stations in the world of the distant past. It’ll be something else. In addition to its impressive technology and exhibits, the museum may also help address anachronism, one of the biggest problems with current Christian Bible engagement, says Glen Paauw, the senior director of content at the Institute For Bible Reading. “It’s so tempting to read the Bible as if it were written directly to us, in our situation, skip the parts that are about other people in other places, and find the little pieces that seem to speak directly to me today without any mediation,” said Paauw. “A museum experience like this has the potential to widely open our eyes to the fact that the Bible is immersed in real, ancient history, but it’s very different than ours.” Christians should be encouraged by the museum putting the Scriptures in context, says Paauw. “The very first step to great Bible engagement is understanding the Bible in its own world and on its own terms,” he added. Paauw joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editorial director Ted Olsen on Quick to Listen to discuss what it means to “engage” the Bible rather than “read” it, the role that Bible-related experiences play in our understanding and delighting in the Word of God, and what makes museums special. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Editor’s note: This podcast makes reference to sexual assault. One of Hollywood’s biggest open secrets is now out in the world: heralded producer Harvey Weinstein’s notoriously long track record of sexual harassment against women. These revelations have sparked a national conversation about the relationship between men and women in the workplace, and the prevalence of sexual assault, harassment, and unwanted attention. Regardless of a workplace’s affiliation to faith, speaking out about colleagues’ bad behavior is challenging for most people, says Halee Gray Scott, the director of Denver Seminary’s Kaleo Project, who is currently writing a book exploring how men and women can work well collectively in ministry. The obstacles just manifest themselves in different ways. “I’ve worked in Christian organizations for 20 years and there is a tendency to think that everyone’s doing everything right,” said Gray Scott. “[Everyone believes that] everyone’s trying to do the godly thing. … You end up having that discretion moment where you ask, ‘Is something going wrong? I’m not sure that it is. It can’t possibly be.’” On the other hand, there may be a broader acceptance of questionable behavior at a non-religious company, she says. “In secular organizations, there is a tendency to accept a certain level of sexual impropriety as flirting or goofing off or someone having a good time,” said Gray Scott. Gray Scott joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss the difference between enabling and showing discretion, why culture cares more about sexual harassment than in decades past, and how the Billy Graham rule fits into this discussion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Several weeks after Lecrae dropped his latest album, the biggest name in Christian hip-hop joined the podcast Truth’s Table. The topic of conversation: the rapper’s musical and personal transformation since his last album, a three-year period during which Lecrae become increasingly vocal in speaking up about racial injustice. Listen here In response to a question about whether he “divorced white evangelicalism,” he said: I spoke out very frequently throughout 2016 in many different ways and it affected me. I went from a show that may have had 3,000 there to 300 but that was the cost. But those 300 people were people who I knew loved Lecrae, the black man, the Christian, all of who Lecrae was, not the caricature that had been drawn up for them. Lecrae’s decision to distance himself from evangelicalism is personally familiar to Carl Ellis Jr., a senior fellow at the African American Leadership Institute and a professor at Reformed Theological Seminary, who doesn’t consider himself reflected in the movement. “I cannot identify with much of what evangelicalism identifies with,” Ellis said. “Yes I believe Scripture to be the inerrant, inspired, infallible Word of God and all of that, but on the other hand, there’s so much baggage that goes along with it.” Like Lecrae, another obstacle for Ellis in connecting with the movement was its lack of emphasis on justice issues. “I was very active in the civil rights movement,” said Ellis, who marched with Martin Luther King Jr. “But when I got saved, I somehow got the subliminal message that I had to leave all of that behind. I think Lecrae was picking up on the fact that there’s something wrong here.” Ellis joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss the genesis of Lecrae and John Piper’s relationship, what it means when someone stops identifying as evangelical, and what Lecrae’s actions and words suggest about where the church is on issues of racial justice. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

David Uth learned about the Pulse nightclub massacre after he woke up and saw the news push-notifications on his phone. “I sat down on the side of the bed and I said, “Lord, help me and help us to look like you right now,’” said Uth, the pastor of the 16,000-person First Baptist Orlando. “I knew anger was my first feeling.” With no playbook about how to respond to a tragedy of this scale, Uth reached out to other megachurch leaders. First Baptist opened their doors for a prayer vigil that was attended by the governor and mayor. Uth told his congregation to actively solicit the victims’ needs so that the church could assist with them. “We need to go out there and find out as many needs as we can,” Uth told them. This week, Uth spoke with a friend of his who pastors a church in Las Vegas, a community currently grieving the mass shooting that left 59 dead. “He asked me, ‘What do we need to do?’” said Uth. “I was thankful to give help and guidance. Immediately, we sent him $10,000 overnight because I said, ‘You’re going to run into needs that you never dreamed you would run into. I want you to be able to do it without thinking about your budget.’” Uth joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss how the Orlando massacre changed his approach to ministry, how the tragedy changed his church’s relationship with the LGBT community, and the lasting trauma his community still suffers. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Has one of the biggest trends in evangelical churches been eclipsed by a new one? Multisite congregations number more than 5,000 and researchers say this trend is as ubiquitous as the megachurch movement was 20 years ago. The Village Church, one of Texas’ largest multisite congregations, announced this week that it would be transitioning into five distinct congregations over the next five years. This news comes several years after its Denton location became an independent congregation “In part, Denton leaders and members didn’t want to build their strategy on the Matt Chandler brand,” CT reported in 2015. What’s been the key to this inaugural site’s success? “It’s because the people in that congregation have said that although this campus pastor hasn’t been preaching every week, this campus pastor has done our weddings, funerals ... is doing our shepherding, leading our staff, and in our neighborhood,” said Daniel Im, the author of Planting Missional Churches. “Yes we hear this really fantastic preacher Matt Chandler very often but what actually ties the church together?” Im joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss the genesis of the multisite movement, what can make this model challenging to sustain, and the latest trend in churches that may not be on most Christians’ radar. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Earlier this week, accusations that five Wheaton College football players had brutally hazed their teammate made national headlines. This news marked the biggest football scandal at a Christian school since five Baylor University players received charges of rape and assault. (The incident also led to the removal of Baylor president Ken Starr and head coach Art Briles and the resignation of athletic director Ian McCaw.) While details of the Wheaton case continue to emerge, football’s unique impact on Christian college campuses can’t be denied, said Dan Wood, the executive director of the National Christian College Athletic Association (NCCAA). “Football leads. If it’s a Christian college, I will tell you it’s the primary sport,” he said. Football is the most physical sport most colleges offer and its position as a fall sport means that athletes often return earlier than other students, a period that reaffirms their status as the center of the campus life, he said. “Football brings a different culture,” said Wood, who cautions Christian colleges before they add football programs. “We are putting [athletes] on pedestals,” Wood said. “Sometimes that’s our fault. Sometimes that’s their fault. But nonetheless, that’s where we find them way too often on the Christian campus.” Wood joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss whether Christian schools have different student-athlete environments than their secular counterparts, the purpose of the NCCAA, and if sports build character—or only reveal it. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Houses of worship and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, otherwise known as FEMA, are at odds—after Hurricane Harvey. From CT’s report: Three Texas churches impacted by Hurricane Harvey sued FEMA this week for deeming them ineligible for disaster relief grants. The agency’s policy excludes sanctuaries that serve as shelters after natural disasters. Conflicts between FEMA and houses of worship aren’t new. In 1995, there was a debate over whether churches could use federal aid to repair damage from the Oklahoma City bombing. (Congress passed a law saying yes, they can.) In 2002, the Justice Department said Seattle churches were eligible for earthquake aid. In 2013, the House voted overwhelmingly to say churches can get FEMA funds for Hurricane Sandy but the bill ultimately died in the Senate. Part of the reason why there’s been no federal statute solution is that there isn’t always political urgency around the issue, said Chelsea Langston Bombino, the director of strategic engagement for the Institutional Religious Freedom Alliance at the Center for Public Justice. “I would love to see the broader nonprofit community say, ‘We don’t all have to agree on our mission. We live in a diverse society, and we need diverse organizations to meet the needs of that society,’” she said. There are more than 350,000 congregations in the United States contributing economically to their communities and offering architectural and artistic value to their neighbors, and the majority offer services for people beyond their congregations, Langston Bombino said. “To restore a community you have to restore its institutions in which that community lives their lives,” she said. “That would include small business, non-profits, community centers, and houses of worship.” Langston Bombino joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editorial director Ted Olsen this week to discuss why FEMA’s denial of funds is a religious freedom issue, why a recent Supreme Court case could be important on the court’s ruling, and how we can love our neighbors through politics. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Just over 100 years ago, churches and labor unions had a close relationship. From a Christian History piece: Some labor unions gathered members in their halls and marched together to church to hear the special messages. Newspapers reprinted the sermons the next day, and ministers were invited to address workers at their shops. These events brought together people who did not often mingle. "Both sides discovered that each had been misunderstanding the other," [Presbyterian minister Charles] Stelzle wrote. "Many a preacher, in his study, preparatory to the service, got a new vision of what the labor movement stands for; and many a workingman, listening to his Labor Day address, caught a glimpse of the purpose of the Church, which he had never dreamed of." Despite this once close relationship with labor, most current thinking around theology and work focuses on white-collar Christians and leaves out the majority of Christian workers. “When we begin to think of faith/work integration, who has more time to think about that?” said Kent Duncan, who wrote his master’s thesis on blue-collar work and vocation. “Who is it that’s more likely to ponder abstract concepts about faith and work?” Duncan, who pastors a church that is predominantly blue collar, says that this population has “often not given a lot of thought to their vocational choices.” Regardless of type of work, however, everyone needs more than “just showing up on Sunday singing hymns, declaring truth, offering up prayers,” he said. “[We need to know that] what we do on Monday through Friday all matters to God.” Duncan joined assistant editor Morgan Lee and editor in chief Mark Galli to discuss the limitations of the current theology of work conversation, the spiritual needs of blue-collar workers, and how pastors can best lead professionally diverse congregations. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices