In this episode, Ruth and special guest Reverend Dr. Prince Rivers discuss the second chapter of Selina Stone’s book, Tarry Awhile. Prince shares personal stories from his life and ministry. He explores his experience of “two-ness” as a child, straddling two different worlds and identities. Prince also sheds light on the profound impact of communal worship, the importance of acknowledging embodied experiences in faith, and how these practices serve as a source of dignity and healing for marginalized communities. The conversation highlights the synergy between pastor, musicians, and congregation in creating transformative worship experiences, emphasizing the importance of being attuned to the Spirit as a part of the practice of tarrying.    We are journeying through Lent with a podcast season entitled “Tarry with Me Awhile: Learnings from the Black Church.” We will use Dr. Selina Stone’s book, Tarry Awhile: Wisdom from Black Spirituality for People of Faith, as a guide. Black spirituality has much to offer us in understanding the practice of tarrying as a Lenten practice. Together we will seek a deeper understanding of waiting on God in the liminal space—where the resurrection feels far off, and our deaths and suffering are present.  Reverend Prince Raney Rivers (TC8) is the Senior Pastor of Union Baptist Church in Durham, NC. Prior to this appointment, he served for twelve years as Senior Pastor of United Metropolitan Missionary Baptist Church in Winston-Salem. Rev. Rivers received a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology from Morehouse College and a Master of Divinity degree from Duke University Divinity School. He has earned a Doctor of Philosophy in Leadership Studies from North Carolina A&T University. He also completed the Harvard Divinity School Summer Leadership Institute and was a fellow of the Pastor-Theologian Program at Princeton Theological Seminary. Rev. Rivers and his wife, Dr. Monica Corbitt Rivers, have two wonderful children.   Music this season is provided by Julian Davis Reed. Julian Davis Reid (TC20) is an artist-theologian from Chicago who uses sound and word to offer hope to the searching, presence to the sorrowful, and rest to the weary. A pianist, composer, and producer, his projects featured on this podcast are the two solo piano records Rest Assured (2021) and Beside Still Waters (2024) and his single Moan (Matthew 2:18) featuring Tramaine Parker, released on Inauguration Day 2025 on the project When Souls Cry Out. Julian steadily releases music under his own name and with his group, The JuJu Exchange. You can learn more about his work at juliandavisreid.com. Mentioned in this episode: Tarry Awhile: Wisdom from Black Spirituality for People of Faith by Dr. Selina Stone Music Credit: Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist I Fear No Evil by Julian Davis Reid   Are you interested in learning more about Haven, our newest community offering from the Transforming Center? Haven is a community that meets alternately online and in person to create space for leaders to forge a stronger connection between their souls and their leadership. Each gathering (online and in-person) offers spiritual practices that increasingly open us to God over time. This new 18-month community experience will provide more intentional opportunities to engage with a diverse community of believers who are united around Christ. Learn more about dates and how to apply!   Alumni: the Alumni Membership Community is here! For Transforming Community Alumni who are still cultivating rhythms that allow them to flourish in their life and leadership, you have the opportunity to stay on the journey with TC alums through a membership community! This exclusive membership is a safe place to be honest about the challenges of spiritual leadership, to remember the teachings and practices that open us up to God, and to be supported by an ongoing community that sustains us in the hope and the mystery of God's transforming work in the world — starting with us! Membership window is open March 12-28, 2025. Join today! Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, exploring different practices associated with Lent, such as solitude, self-examination, confession, and more. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!     The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.   *this post contains affiliate links

Dr. Selina Stone, a theology and ethics lecturer at the University of Edinburgh and author of "Tarry Awhile," shares her insights on the spiritual practice of 'tarrying' rooted in Black Pentecostal traditions. She discusses the transformative power of waiting on the Holy Spirit during challenging times and highlights the crucial role of women in spiritual leadership. Their conversation emphasizes the importance of genuine community support and the intersection of spirituality and social justice, encouraging listeners to embrace the beauty in vulnerability and connection.

Enuma Okoro, a Nigerian-American author and cultural critic known for her book 'Silence and Other Surprising Invitations of Advent,' joins the conversation. She shares her insights on navigating faith, the art of vulnerability, and the profound lessons from waiting on God's timing. The discussion highlights recognizing the sacred in everyday life, the transformative power of silence, and embracing divine invitations. Enuma's reflections invite listeners to deepen their spiritual journeys and appreciate the beauty in unexpected moments.

This week, David Hughes, resident theologian at the Transforming Center, joins the team for an insightful discussion. They explore the dynamics of spiritual companionship through the narratives of Elizabeth and Zechariah, highlighting how community fosters growth in times of wilderness. Vulnerability and acceptance emerge as vital components for transformative experiences. The conversation emphasizes the power of silence and the profound connections that support waiting and spiritual journeys, encouraging listeners to embrace hope amid life’s challenges.

Dalene Strieff, a longtime member of the Transforming Center community, brings her rich experience in spiritual practices to the conversation. They delve into the themes of waiting and barrenness, reflecting on personal losses and the importance of silence in cultivating a deeper connection with God. The discussion highlights Zachariah and Elizabeth's story as an inspiring example of faithfulness amid challenges. Strieff shares insights on how communal practices can help navigate seasons of grief, emphasizing the transformative power of spiritual connection during tough times.

In this reflective journey through Advent, the hosts delve into the themes of longing, grief, and unanswered prayers as seen in the stories of Elizabeth and Zachariah. They highlight the power of silence and the importance of communal lament amidst societal turmoil. Insights from 'Silence and Other Surprising Invitations of Advent' encourage listeners to engage with their emotional experiences authentically. The conversation emphasizes hope and the transformative nature of faith during challenging times, inviting deeper spiritual connection and vulnerability.

In today’s episode, Ruth and guests Rev. Dr. Prince Rivers and Rev. Dr. David Hughes navigate the depths of the future of Christian spirituality through the lenses of the atonement. The discussion confronts traditional interpretations of the cross and atonement, addressing challenges posed by modern perspectives. Ruth, Prince, and David explore theories from historical and contemporary theologians, such as penal substitution, while highlighting how these interpretations impact real-life contexts, especially among marginalized communities and the oppressed. The conversation concludes with reflections on faith, suffering, and power, emphasizing transformation through love over wrath, with a heartfelt prayer for divine guidance and liberation.   This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.   PRINCE RIVERS is senior pastor of Union Baptist Church in Durham, N.C. He has been a participant in the Pastor-Theologian Program at the Center of Theological Inquiry in Princeton, N.J., and has a B.A. in psychology from Morehouse College and an M.Div. from Duke Divinity School and currently serves as consulting faculty at Duke Divinity School.   DAVID HUGHES served as a pastor for 37+ years. In 2013, after attending and serving in several Transforming Community experiences, he became the Executive Director of the Transforming Center, where he served for a number of years. Currently, he serves as the part-time Ambassador of the TC. He is married to Joani, and they have three adult children, and two grandchildren. His passion is to accompany church leaders and congregations in their journey to be spiritually formed and transformed in this most challenging era of the Christian church.   Mentioned in this episode: The Cross and the Lynching Tree by James Cone Invitation to a Journey by Robert Muholland The Deeper Journey by Robert Muholland Music Credit: Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist Yesterday Today Forever from Music in Solitude   Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.   Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!     The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.   *this post contains affiliate links

In this episode, Ruth delves into the future of Christian spirituality as it pertains to the role of justice. Joined by her long-time friend and expert in reconciliation studies, Dr. Brenda Salter McNeil, the discussion centers on the growing movement of the Holy Spirit towards deeper justice work, specifically racial justice. Dr. McNeil discusses her new book 'Empowered to Repair', which explores the biblical figure Nehemiah as a model for reparative actions that go beyond the warm fuzziness of relational reconciliation to concrete outcomes that reflect true justice. The conversation also addresses resistance within Christian communities towards reparations and repair, exploring how faith and a scarcity mentality influence these defenses. Ruth and Brenda call for activating all believers as ministers of reconciliation, underscoring the importance of integrating justice work with spirituality for the church to remain relevant, especially among younger generations.   This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here.   Brenda Salter McNeil is a gifted teacher, preacher and a leader in the international movement for peace and reconciliation.  Her mission is to inspire, equip and empower emerging Christian leaders to be practitioners of reconciliation in their various spheres of influence. She is an Associate Professor of reconciliation studies in the School of Theology at Seattle Pacific University, where she also directs the Reconciliation Studies program. She also serves on the pastoral staff of Quest Church in Seattle, WA. Dr. Brenda is recognized internationally as one of the foremost leaders of reconciliation and was featured as one of the 50 most influential women to watch by Christianity Today. She is the author of a number of books, including Becoming Brave: Finding the Courage to Pursue Racial Justice Now and Empowered to Repair: Becoming People who Mend Broken Systems and Heal our Communities.    Mentioned in this episode: Empowered to Repair by Brenda Salter McNeil Strengthening the Soul of Your Leadership by Ruth Haley Barton Music Credit: Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist Prayer for Healing from Music in Solitude   Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.   Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!     The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.   *this post contains affiliate links

What does it mean to be welcoming and inclusive from a rooted depth, and how do we see the Holy Spirit nudging us towards this concept? Ruth is joined by a special guest, Transforming Center’s very own cultivator of community and connection, Tina Harris, today to discuss the many ways we are called to practice hospitality in the name of Christ. Tina shares her own transformative experiences practicing radical hospitality, what it has felt like to not be welcomed, and practical and concrete ways churches can begin to become more welcoming and inclusive of all types of people. They also discuss why they think there is a resistance to this invitation and lament the ways that beautiful words and ideas like diversity, equity, and inclusion have become politicized, hot button issues. This season we are exploring the future of Christian spirituality. Based on her own experience and the lives of people she accompanies on the journey, Ruth has been naming what she is noticing and observing regarding the future of Christian spirituality– how the Spirit is moving and how we can align ourselves to participate in the future God is leading us into. Elements she is naming include respect for the role of desire; emphasis on spiritual direction; welcoming and inclusive; committed to justice; and more. This season Ruth will sit down with thoughtful Christian leaders to discuss their thoughts on one of these elements, as it has to do with the future of Christian spirituality. This season was inspired by the Beyond Words series by the same name. Check out those posts here. Tina Harris is ordained in the United Methodist Church and holds a Master of Divinity from St. Paul School of Theology. She has served the church in a variety of roles, including Lead Pastor and Director of Mission, Service and Justice Ministries in the Missouri Conference of the United Methodist Church. Tina is passionate about community engagement and has served and/or actively supported several civic organizations and ministries. As an attorney and diversity leader, a common thread in her work is to gather individuals into communities, challenge comfort zones and invite those whom society has overlooked to take their place at the table.   Mentioned in this episode: Soul Feast by Marjorie J. Thompson Contemporary Icons from Kelly Latimore (we discussed Madonna and Child, Mama, and The Trinity) Origin Movie Making Room:  Recovering Hospitality as a Christian Tradition by Christine Pohl Music Credit: Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist Tender Moment from Music in Solitude   Join us for our upcoming Online Oasis: When the Road is Dark and Dim:  Navigating the Dark Night, Depression, and Grief on the Spiritual Journey. In this Online Oasis event, Dr. Bob Watson, a licensed clinical psychologist, joins Ruth to explore the differences and the overlaps between the dark night of the soul, depression, and the experience of grief on the spiritual journey. Whether you are wondering about this for yourself,  for someone you love, or  someone you are accompanying as a pastor, psychologist or spiritual director, this conversation will equip you to more wisely discern what is really going on, help you learn how to welcome God’s presence into this aspect of the journey, and identify the appropriate resources for each.    It is ideal for:  pastors, spiritual directors, psychologists, individuals, spiritual friends. Join us on Wednesday, October 30 from 12-1:30 CST. Learn more and register HERE.   Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!     The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.   *this post contains affiliate links

We cannot ignore the current state of our politics and the toll it has taken on the American public. As we approach another election season we wanted to provide you with encouragement and guidance on how we connect our spirituality and our politics. Guest Michael Wear joins Ruth to discuss why he believes the state of our politics is indicative to the state of our souls. Ruth and Michael also discuss how important it is to bring our own formation to our politics,  how politics can be an essential form in which to love our neighbors and why we need to avoid the false bifurcation of our spiritual lives and our political lives.   Michael Wear is founder, president, and CEO of the Center for Christianity and Public Life, a nonpartisan, nonprofit institution based in the nation's capital with the mission to contend for the credibility of Christian resources in public life, for the public good. He has served as a trusted resource and advisor for a range of civic leaders on matters of faith and public life for the last fifteen years, including as a White House and presidential campaign staffer. Wear previously led Public Square Strategies, a consulting firm he founded that helps religious organizations, political organizations, businesses and others effectively navigate the rapidly changing American religious and political landscape. He is the author of "The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life," which argues that the kind of people we are has much to do with the kind of politics and public life we will have.  Mentioned in this episode: The Spirit of Our Politics: Spiritual Formation and the Renovation of Public Life by Michael Wear Reclaiming Hope: Lessons Learned in the Obama White House by Michael Wear The Divine Conspiracy by Dallas Willard The Case for Self Forgetfulness by Tim Keller Unoffendable by Brant Hansen Invitation to a Journey by Robert Mulholland Life Together by Dedrich Bonehoffer Music Credit: Kingdom Come by Aaron Niequist No Matter What from Music in Solitude   Support the podcast! This season patrons will receive special bonus episodes with each guest, guiding listeners on how to pray into these different topics. Become a patron today by visiting our Patreon page!     The Transforming Center exists to create space for God to strengthen leaders and transform communities. You are invited to join our next Transforming Community:® A Two-year Spiritual Formation Experience for Leaders.  Delivered in nine quarterly retreats, this practice-based learning opportunity is grounded in the conviction that the best thing you bring to leadership is your own transforming self! Learn more and apply HERE.   *this post contains affiliate links