Double Your Freelancing Podcast

Matt Olpinski is a full-time independent design consultant based in Rochester, NY. He has been designing user interfaces and websites for almost a decade, many of them leading to rapid user growth, large increases in sales, and millions in startup funding. Matt has designed native apps, responsive web apps, e-commerce websites, and marketing websites for clients in many industries including: fitness, shopping, video, food & beverage, industrial, law, education, automotive, music, social, SaaS, enterprise, non-profits, and more. Matt Olpinski is a UI and UX designer who had over 200 viable project leads in 2017. Through casual, but precise SEO, he’s become an expert in giving clients what they want. Matt’s site ranks extremely well on Google searches in his niche and with minor site tweaks, he’s ensured these leads go from “shopping around” to conversion. He shared some of his techniques with Brennan in this week’s DYF podcast on Lead Generation through SEO. Takeaways: How to create a useful message What simple changes can you make for better SEO How to use case studies to build trust How to boost traffic with social media How to close the deal over the competition Independent UI designer, Matt Olpinski never intended to freelance full time. After college he was looking for a comfortable job to make a comfortable life, and he was just freelancing on the side. Despite this side-hustle approach, Matt’s designer instincts always had him aiming for a “pixel perfect” portfolio and site. Through his refining, he stumbled on some strategies that made too big an impact to ignore, and he shared some of these tactics with Brennan on this episode of the DYF podcast. The first big change that drove Matt’s shift towards great SEO was seeing an early edition of Double Your Freelancing’s The Blueprint. The course changed Matt’s outlook as he realized there was more potential to grow his freelancing business if he began to focus on his clients rather than himself. Just by changing his focus and positioning, Matt increased his leads, rate, and ranking, but at first he didn’t really understanding why. After some investigation, Matt realized that simply providing what clients were looking for (and presenting it that way) made him a better search result for Google to come up with, thereby increasing his SEO. From there, the growth compounded. So what actual changes lead to this turn around? The Little Things Matt’s original site was similar to many freelance web designer’s sites in that it said, “I'm a UX Designer. I built websites. Here's my work. Here’s how you contact me.” When he shifted focus, Matt’s site’s design, copy, and language changed. It now sounded more like “Hi, I’m Matt, I build websites that help businesses grow.” He started thinking like a client and his testimonials began highlighting metrics clients might find valuable and associate with project success. He found that clients don’t necessarily care about fancy transitions, they care about what Matt is going to do for their website. Matt also found that when they get to his site, leads have obstacles to overcome before hiring him, so he recognized that his site was an opportunity to address and allay those obstacles. Matt’s approach was a little more laid back than it could have been since he had a fulltime job and still viewed freelancing as his side project. However, small tactical changes made a big difference in traffic. He ensured his page titles were consistent, wrote unique page descriptions for each of his big pages (home page, service page, project page). He found that by making descriptions unique helped instead of having either nothing or a generic description that shows up on every page. He rewrote/shortened his page slug URLs and took out breaks and stop words. Matt approached the changes not as an expert, but just looking at the logic of creating desirable content. Although SEO has a slimy reputation, Matt points out that there are a lot of very simple changes others can do to increase the viability of their site. Plus, giving clients what they want (and making it easy to find) is a win-win strategy. What Clients Search For As Matt began consciously optimizing, he asked himself, “What are my clients searching for?” There are numerous tools and lists to help users find the best search terms, and as a designer, Matt turned to Dribble and Behance. As he reverse engineered popular searches, Matt realized that he learns three things about his clients through their search terms: What task his customers wanted to complete: (search terms might be UX Design, UI Design, or Web Development). His clients’ geographic location (if they're in New York, they might type in UI Designer in New York). What kind of person they wanted to hire (freelance, consultant, agency etc). Now Matt discovers what the customer wants in their own words, and because of this, he’s better able to provide and present it. For example, he could answer the above queries by titling his page: “Matt Olpinski, Freelance UI Designer, New York.” To prove his theory, Matt asked clients what they searched to find him. In addition to validating this theory, this data has informed further SEO. Brennan points out that tools like Google Search Console can also trace what terms people actually used to get to your site and where they landed etc. Information on adjacent searches can allow sites to pull in traffic that might have skipped them otherwise. For example, he says Matt could add content to draw in people looking for a UX Development Agency in NY. This content could actually be an argument convincing them of why they should use a freelancer instead. Of course with his current success, Matt isn’t looking to make any harder sells, but Brennan points out that there is always opportunity for further optimization. What Clients Find Content has made a big difference in Matt’s ability to project authority and and he has found case studies to be his preferred format. Initially, Matt’s site featured images with captions to let the work speak for itself. He has since flipped this model to show each project’s process and how his decisions impacted each business. Although he only presents 6-8 projects on his site, Matt writes extensively about each one. He writes not just what he did but also why he did it, and the thought process behind each action. This humanizes the work and Matt has taken this further by integrating the related testimonials directly onto the project page. Instead of just presenting a menu of services, Matt’s site explains what UI and UX design are and how they might be used in a project; “Instead of just listing what I can do, I tell people why that's important for them,” says Matt. Other ways that Matt shares his process and builds authority include his blog, his newsletter, and guest posts on freelancing websites. Not only does this content help SEO by keeping his site relevant, Matt says that when a client sees he’s written over 60 articles on a topic, they know that he is a good choice to hire. Brennan agrees that seeing inside a potential collaborator’s head is key to building trust. It can help clients feel justified in making a purchase. He suggests that if you’re struggling to find blog topics, write about a few ideas that came out of your latest sales meeting (without giving away too much specific project information). The details of brainstorming are helpful. As an example, Brennan mentions a client meeting with a realtor that he wrote about. The realtor wanted to follow up with clients after they’d bought a house from him so that they use him again when they sell it five years down the line and he could gain referrals. Brennan built software to remind the realtor a month after the purchaser is settled in, to check in and ask “How are the neighbors, what do you love about the house?” etc. While the specifics seem mundane to the developer who lived through it, their audience might actually find them useful/inspiring, and potential clients are energized by the success story. This is exactly what Brennan looks for when he hires people too. He says, backing convincing sales copy with “the Mind of Matt Olpinski” insights is a much stronger draw than the copy alone. To make things easier on his leads, Matt places most of these thought process insights into his case studies. That way a client doesn't have to look through a bunch of articles to piece together how he thinks. They see his work on the landing page and can click into the project to read about how it came to light. Matt tries to include the “before” version of the project before his changes so that he can show where it came from and where he took it. “Seeing that transition is really valuable,” he says. Blog posts drive traffic in conjunction with social media updates also. Matt finds that most of this traffic is from other freelancers, but he has had some project inquiries from these articles. For the most part, Matt’s audience is split in two. He has the clients on the consulting side of his business and the “level up you career by joining my newsletter,” peer side of his business. Although the sides are separate (color cues and other dividers make this clear to site visitors), Matt believes the freelancer side of his site probably helps reinforce the idea that a potential client should contact him. It builds his authority/credibility while not directly serving the needs of his consulting clients. It tells these clients about his professionalism. Outshining the Competition No matter how high the rankings, potential clients are probably shopping around for service providers and won’t stop at just one site. So how does Matt draw clients back to his? He feels the primary draw is his “what do clients want?” approach. Matt hopes his clients get to his site and say “Oh, that’s exactly what I wanted to hear!” instead of just seeing a portfolio and contact information. From simple changes in the copy, to thinking about what buttons clients want to have available, and eventually what details they need to see about his process, Matt works to give clients what they’re looking for and so far it sets him miles apart. Brennan acknowledges a necessary balance between speaking the language of business and speaking the language of design. Using the right search terms in the right places, proving his design skill and talking to the prospective clients about THEIR business allows Matt to stand out. Matt also argues depth of content is a huge benefit. Even if some of his content is not directly what a client is looking for, all of his content matters and drives visitors to the site which boosts his ranking --the freelancing side gets him the clicks so the consultant side can find him easily. Having an older domain helps too, but Matt says not to worry, it isn’t the end of the world if you don’t. In the end, providing what clients want, also answers what Google wants. To boost his SEO, Matt considered what page titles he had, what URLs he was submitting to google, and what each were saying once a human being finally saw them. With blog posts and articles, Matt provided more fodder for Google to reward while allowing potential clients to get into his head and feel confident about hiring him. Matt says anyone can make these changes too. He says to, “pay attention to the small stuff. Pay attention to goofy things like alt descriptions on your images, and the length of your URLs and the kind of order of pages on your site, [and also] the page titles.” He says to stay consistent on social media and just call yourself one thing. Overall, simple tactics and a clean up to refocus your site on customer needs can make a big difference in results and Matt is living proof. Matt Olpinski's website Matt's Ultimate Guide to Getting More Clients DYF's The Blueprint Behance.net Dribble.com

Kev Kaye, founder of GrowthBOKs.com, shares insights on using paid ads for client acquisition, creating on-demand webinars, optimizing ad targeting with Facebook's algorithm, selling higher ticket services, and streamlining the funnel by qualifying leads and automation.

As a salary negotiation expert, Josh Doody faces a unique challenge -- how to convert a lead within the first hours of them visiting his site. Josh’s clients often find him within an hour or two of their salary discussions and are looking for help fast, cheap and with big results. His challenge has been to draw in clients sooner, address their needs right away, and to make sure they know he’s there for them long-term. He talks with Brennan about the tricks he’s learned for getting leads into his funnel, the best ways to experiment with your site, and what changes he’s had to make over the years. Takeaways: How to conduct useful SEO research and apply it to your content How to use content upgrades to optimize for opt-ins How to adjust your message for different clients Learning about clients by reading between the lines How to edit and refine your funnel Josh Doody, founder of FearlessSalaryNegotiation.com, teaches salaried employees how to make more money. His funnel starts with search engine optimization and excellent content marketing, then uses a variety of other tools, including research, reputation, and automation, to turn leads into conversions. Since many people find his site as they’re about to enter salary discussions with an employer, Josh works to get leads in earlier, show his value quickly, and convince potential clients to slow down their approach. Josh adjusts his message and sales approach depending on how quickly leads need his help. He has also found that drawing traffic to his site is a key variable that he’s able to control. So how does he do it? Getting Clicks Josh identifies himself first and foremost as a writer. Not only has he written several books about salary negotiation, but he says the long form, free, educational content on his site is his biggest draw for new visitors. Josh writes what he think will be valuable to his audience and then checks which of these topics are getting traffic and being shared. He’ll then double down on those pages by enhancing them or writing more along those lines. From this very basic, manual search engine optimization, Josh has been able to create organic traffic resulting in 55,000 unique visits per month. “Google is really good at finding what people are searching for,” Josh says, so he focuses less on getting the exact wording right, and more on targeting his audience’s specific informational needs. Josh also likes to increase clicks by building his authority. By answering questions on forums like Quora, Josh is not only able to point to his site and increase his click rate, but also, to learn what information his audience is seeking and what responses resonate with them. Appearing on podcasts is another tactic he’s used to boost his numbers. Brennan points out that podcast guesting will generate some traffic in the first week or so of the episode going out (especially with the help of social media bumps). However, there is a long term benefit in the permanent backlink from that podcast’s host site. Josh agrees, between appearing as a podcast guest and writing articles for other recognizable sites, Google will see the backlinks and realize that your site is “worth paying attention to.” An advantage to having a large audience (like Josh’s 1500+ unique clicks per day) is being able to run occasional experiments. Though he sometimes runs two day a/v tests for special offers, Josh generally prefers to run 90 day experiments to learn what visitors will do for downloadable bonuses, which ones get the most traffic etc. Josh remembers starting these exercises too early in his site’s life and finding it only wasted time; with too small an audience, the changes are too insignificant to achieve measurable results. He says early on, a consultant’s focus should be pretty much entirely on getting more traffic, seeing what brought in that traffic and using that information to get more traffic. He adds, that barring some kind of algorithm change or massive platform change, Google Analytics information is also pretty helpful. Generating Opt-Ins Josh found his first opportunity to optimize his funnel when he noticed he’d been getting mediocre email opt ins from organic traffic --only about 1%. He evaluated his site and isolated the problem: he was giving too much away and his lead magnets were too generic. So Josh looked at which pages were bringing in the most traffic and thought about how to optimize them. With 20,000 visitors per month on some of these pages, even going from 1% to 2% opt ins would be a meaningful jump so he started there. He considered content upgrades he might be able to offer on those pages. On one article, he pulled the email templates that had been embedded in the text and created a linked PDF that customers could only access by opting in. Josh says this flipped the switch on this page and and his opt ins there are now around 4-5%. Since the 8000+ word article is still providing useful information on a topic his readers care about, Josh is still getting the traffic he wanted and building trust with his audience. Josh points out that this idea can be taken further in that the templates can become a product in and of themselves (e.g. he could provide 2 for free, and then charge a flat rate of $19 for the rest). Josh says that knowing which articles will do well before offering the content upgrade is key. He limits his focus to 4 or 5 pages that get a lot of traffic and thinks about what the lead magnet should be for each one, then builds it accordingly. He creates category specific baseline calls to action to help with each lead magnet. Creating Conversions Josh’s funnel is based on his statement “I can help you raise your salary,” and the first step is figuring out exactly how he can do that best. Josh starts by asking opt-ins, “When are you negotiating your salary?” This helps him profile his visitors, divide them into categories based on urgency, and respond to them appropriately. In his first response to them, Josh tries to describe the situation he thinks the client is in and what he can do to address their need. It is not uncommon for people to find Josh’s site moments or just a couple of hours before sending their salary negotiation email or before entering talks --they’ll download his email templates in a last ditch effort to prepare. For these opt-ins, Josh urges them to take their salary negotiation process a little bit slower and to hear what possibilities his services can facilitate. The email these clients will see says “don’t send that counter offer yet!” Since these clients are on an abbreviated timeline, Josh knows they are more suited to the product side of his business than coaching. However, if a lead is seeking a raise at an existing job, Josh knows his customer’s timeline will be a bit more laid back. In this case, he can pitch the coaching aspect of his work and phrase his welcome/thank you message differently. In both cases, he says, his goal is to have his first email be the “fulfillment email,” which says, “Here’s the material you requested, but also, here’s who I am and what I can do for you.” Multiple Markets Even though Josh has mastered giving customers what they want when they need it, he is always refining his tactics to better reach potential clients who are on the shorter timeline. Josh mentions Joshua Earl who presents two kinds of markets: “the stocked pond” and “the passing parade.” The stocked pond client checks you out, wants to know what you have to offer, is someone you build a relationship with over time, and eventually they’ll buy. For the passing parade customer, there’s a smaller window of time during which your product is relevant to them. For people starting out, this is exactly why knowing where your clients are coming from and who they are is a big deal. Just as you speak differently with clients who you know have an immediate need vs people who don’t currently have a project for you, so too, you should speak differently depending on a visitor’s urgency. Just knowing how a client enters your funnel can tell you a lot about which market they belong to. For example, Brennan mentions that “Starting A Freelance Business” is a frequently clicked DYF article. Just knowing that is what the customer is interested in, gives Brennan an idea of the customer’s experience level, specific need, and urgency. He also gets clues of their timeline, financial flexibility, and goals. He can tell for example, the reader probably has a day job right now. Josh says the earlier you know that information, the better you’ll be able to service your client’s need. For Josh’s stocked pond customers he steers them towards the coaching side of his funnel. Josh says this isn’t a hard sell, it’s just a matter of letting people know it exists and telling them more about it when they’re ready to hear it. In the past year, Josh has narrowed his focus further to address salary negotiation for software developers who want more job offers and a higher rate. He helps leads see themselves as clients by using pre-scripts, emails, and casual mentions, to say “my coaching clients get results using this technique.” Sometimes his customers come back a year after they first find him and say “hey, I regret not working with you before but I’m switching jobs again and I’d like to work with you now.” These leads require a softer sell because a software developer who has a job offer from Facebook knows Josh’s fee will seem trivial against their potential salary. Josh says keeping himself front and center is essential so he sends weekly emails to his audience. Once or twice a month he’ll focus on topics relevant to coaching and will include a link to the coaching page asking if readers are “expecting a job offer within the next four weeks?” Just by making people aware that he offers coaching, means they sometimes book within an hour of getting a job offer. Clients select themselves and all Josh has to do is follow up. Brennan and Josh agree that this is one of many examples showing that higher price point doesn’t necessarily mean a harder sell. Josh’s customers could buy one of his books for much cheaper and gain all of the knowledge they need, but when he mentions this, clients usually say, “I just want to be told what to do.” Josh’s clients tend to be looking for things that are inclusive, already done for them, and that provide quick answers. Refining the Funnel Fearless Salary Negotiation is doing fine with an evergreen funnel and a lot of happy customers, but Josh is always looking to the future. This year he plans to re-target his funnel to reach higher-value leads with segmentation. He sees other opportunities also. Josh’s automation allows him to follow up with customers who have clicked through but not purchased and he knows there’s potential for him to sell more books and courses with just a few adjustments. He also offers career coaching if clients are having difficulty getting job offers in the first place. While this service isn’t promoted as heavily, Josh looks forward to developing it more in the future. Currently, Josh’s funnel starts with excellent, optimized content that ensures customers have already benefited from him before they even see the sales page. The page is available after an email opt in, and it invites leads to apply to schedule a free 15 min call. Josh’s optimized funnel means sales are easy to make and he has control. Although he can’t demand 10 new clients and have them appear, Josh CAN send out a flash discount to his email list and “make money happen,” to quote Amy Hoy. Josh’s hustle is about convincing people to enter his list rather than convincing people to hire him. He focuses on guest posting, guesting on podcasts etc. and building his audience while his funnel takes care of the rest. Doubling visitors may not automatically double revenue, but it is an essential component. Josh says the question is what to do with the traffic, and how to optimize for client needs. He says it is easy to become obsessed with the stats as you look at value per customer, value per subscriber, and value per coaching client vs. product client. He recommends taking a variety of approaches like looking for interesting ways to get a $5 per visitor value, finding higher-value leads with segmentation, and evaluating the effectiveness of each stage of the funnel. Not wanting to become obsessed is one reason Josh doesn’t look at the numbers until an experiment has run for 30-90 days. He revises by looking at each section of the funnel and working on it for a while. He works his way down, optimizing to the fullest, and then starts at the top to edit again. He sees what modifications work and gets to learn about his audience’s motivations. Josh knows to let the numbers speak. Where there is successful content, there is opportunity for lead generation. From there, it is his job to determine how to strategically offer the content upgrades that become his opt-ins. How Josh communicates with opt-ins is dependent on their specific needs and can be the difference between a conversion and a missed sale. Josh’s constant research allows for excellent optimization and his meticulous process editing has made him a true authority on funnel management. Josh has become a master of his niche, and by following his example, you can master yours. https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/ https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/start-a-freelancing-business/ https://joshuaearl.com/ http://www.microconf.com/ Amy Hoy -- https://stackingthebricks.com/be-your-own-angel-how-to-make-money-happen/

Does content marketing have the power to attract “whale leads?” In this episode, Brennan talks with Benji Hyam, founder of Grow and Convert, a content marketing agency based out of San Diego. Grow and Convert was started when founders, Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal were introduced and immediately launched into a heated discussion about whether content marketing could attract high quality leads. Their debate turned into a partnership and the team set to work proving the untapped value of content marketing through hard work and simple, honest strategies. Key Takeaways: How to build trust through transparency Why credibility matters and how to build it from scratch How to make content marketing measurable How to create actionable case studies How to get guest posts published (script provided) Benji Hyam, co-founder of Grow and Convert believes that content marketing, at its core, is about trust. It starts with understanding what your customers care about and proving to them that you can deliver it. For Grow and Convert, this meant becoming the full-service company that Benji himself had looked for in the past and was unable to find. It took a few iterations for them to get it right, but eventually, Benji and Grow and Convert co-founder, Devesh Khanal, created a successful business that put customers’ interests first and turned the old model of the content marketing business on its head. Before starting Grow and Convert, Benji was running marketing startups in San Francisco. He was getting burned out as he noticed that many content writing and marketing agencies claiming to drive leads, often just created a few social media updates and hoped this would bring the company more followers. Since having more followers doesn’t necessarily mean getting more conversions, Benji recognized that CEOs looking for ways to direct a company’s marketing funds would have no incentive to invest in content marketing -- the lack of measurable ROI was completely unappealing. It was then that Benji ran into Devesh Khanal. By chance, they both arrived an hour early to a dinner put on by fellow growth marketer, Sujen Patel, and they proceeded to argue about whether content marketing could attract high quality leads. Devesh, who has a CRO agency, was trying to attract executives from $10million+ ecommerce companies but wasn’t sure if execs at that level even read content marketing. Benji had just come from a job selling to these high-level figures almost exclusively via content marketing so he knew that they did. They both agreed that the current model was not the way to do it so with Devesh’s highly-developed analytical skills and Benji’s experience growing sites, they decided to team up. They set out to show that content marketing is measurable and that “full service” should go beyond a few tweets to include user research, content writing and promotion, and lead driving. Finding an Audience Grow and Convert started as a blog. They focused on showing what good content writing looks like, providing useful, real-world examples, and demonstrating measurability. In writing about content strategy, the two were proving they were great content writers, while simultaneously filling the void of real-world case studies (as opposed to theoretical platitudes) that users could learn from. Readers learned from every part of the blog. As part of their commitment to transparency and trackable data, on a monthly basis, the small company shared its stats and what they did to promote themselves. Benji says this was essential to building trust with the community. To keep readers engaged, and to give them more of a personal stake in Grow and Convert’s success, the guys publicly announced goals for the blog like the target of hitting 40K monthly readers in 6 months. Readers eagerly followed the progress of this wager. Four months in, and still shy of the 40,000 followers goal, Benji found himself somewhat stranded in Bali with no steady income (having quit his job to focus on the business). At that point, the partners decided to back burner the arbitrary 40K followers target and pivoted towards monetization. Grow and Convert then went through a few transformations, becoming a successful phone course, in-person workshops where Benji would fly out to a business and spend a day working with their staff, and an online course positioned towards businesses rather than individuals. This last model was still not quite what they were looking for since individuals are the ones who look for courses, not companies. However, the guys gained traction by offering a service to businesses and their agency was born. Creating Measureability One way that Grow and Convert worked to build trust and appeal to clients was by showing measurability. They built a calculator for content marketing ROI, showed users how to track leads coming in from content marketing, and used live case studies to show followers how to drive traffic to their site. They would pick a company at random from their email list and create a post for them designed to bring in 1000 new visitors to their site or to actually surpass any of their previous posts in the first month. Grow and Convert showed results through metrics and talked about the unspoken weak points of content marketing, chiefly: deliverables. While other sites sell “4 blog posts a month,” Grow and Convert tracked stats to show that they could provide traffic and leads. Their openness and vigilant tracking created trust and thereby authority with their audience. All of these distinctions and the numbers to back them up, gave Benji and Devesh much more leverage when it came to pricing--a model they shared with readers. From a consumer perspective, Brennan agrees that as he has looked for vendors while working on his latest site, he has opted for agencies with radically transparent operations. Although it can seem like someone is just a shameless self-promoter, showing process can be a selling point. A great example of successful transparency that Brennan points to is John Doherty who he hired to run an SEO audit on DoubleYourFreelancing.com. Even though he had never met or worked with him before, Brennan was convinced to hire Doherty based on John’s openness and frequent updates on his daily process. With blog and social media posts showing an agency’s background, results, and what sets them apart in the industry, they can show credibility that will not come through in a sales letter. Putting in this time is seriously valuable. Grow and Convert doesn’t use any outbound sales tactics to grow their own agency. They do not go through their network looking for referrals or advertising to find leads. Their goal is to gain customers based on great content marketing, following their own advice, and just by showing what they’re good at. Brennan agrees that following one’s own advice is key. Credibility comes from being able to say “here’s an example of how I applied this tactic I swear by.” Examples have gone a long way towards Grow and Convert’s credibility. For Benji, case studies involve much more process and detail than just presenting a problem, solution, and result. He believes in doing the research to understand the pain points a company is facing. He says only his personal experience, building a content marketing company from the ground up, allowed him to fully understand the challenges others would face in the same position. They’d need to know about: hiring writers, hiring an editor, promoting content, attracting the right visitors to your blog, scaling, and search engine optimization. Understanding all of the different hiccups that pop up in the business allows an agency to tailor case studies and content directly to the real problems people are having (instead of writing what they think customers want to know). When people sign up for their newsletter, Grow and Convert asks clients, “Tell us a little about yourself, who are you and what are your main challenges right now?” with over 500,000 responses, they’ve been able to build a much fuller picture of what customers are actually looking for. The guys look for commonalities and trends and then tailor the blog posts to customer pain points. From there, if Benji notices lots of people saying “I publish a lot of content but have very few visitors,” then he can highlight 3 articles that get a lot of traffic and build the case study around what is working for them. Showing that they have addressed these challenges before, builds customer confidence in them. It is also less superficial than the stories one finds in a Linkedin article. These case studies offer screenshots and examples showing outcomes which will be much more helpful to someone struggling with these specific problems --again building trust. Data, graphs, detailed copy about what was tried and what worked vs what didn’t are the things that Brennan says makes Growthlab a trusted resource for him. He says his most effective articles follow the Growthlab formula. Brennan says he doesn’t offer a prescription, just details and experiences his audience can relate to. Turns out, being useful and honest is a great way to stand out from the crowd. Giving Them What They Want When starting from zero with no customer base, or email list, Benji suggests creating a specific hypothetical customer in your target demographic. Once you know what that person’s interests and day consists of, that informs the research you do on where to find them. Though you’ll have to reach out to them cold, you don’t have to (and shouldn’t) mass email/spam them. Instead, find them on Linkedin or elsewhere and try to get on a 15 minute call with them. He points out that ego-stroking is generally a good bet: “Hey I’m reaching out to you today because you are vice president of marketing and I hear you are doing great at…” He recommends reading a blog post by the customer, finding a video or quote of theirs that actually resonates with you, and mentioning it to show the lead that you have done your research. From there, Benji suggests you offer them a favor and then ask them to get on that quick call so that you can better understand their business. Brennan suggests that content itself can be a gateway to the clients you want. He recommends writing a blog post or interview series that features the person you want to get into a conversation with. This allows you to demonstrate that you can think critically about their business and it starts the conversation. Grow and Convert has a few ways of getting into the headspace of their clients. They’ve used surveys that include questions like: What’s your biggest challenge right now? Who are you? What other marketing influencers do you trust? Where do you go to meet other marketers? Etc. but they take care to keep answers open-ended. Getting the language, real responses and insights into how the questions are perceived can all result in useful information. From the responses, Benji and Devesh have learned not only where a lot of their audience is probably struggling, but also what kinds of content and guest posts are going to be best-received and where to start looking for new readers. Thanks to Grow and Convert’s reputation, Benji no longer has to look for leads. He says, on the consulting side, the ticket to conversion is getting customers to his services page where pricing is listed pretty early on. This avoids confusion and wasted time, and goes with the “share everything!” philosophy that is useful to the customers on the blog side of the business. Benji has found that clients on both sides of the business find their openness refreshing. At Grow and Convert, they avoid calls to action and telling readers what to do. Instead they say “This is what worked for me and here’s why.” That way, they’re aiming for the people who can afford the premium and want to hear the details (how Grow and Convert helps businesses, what it will cost etc.) and the DIYers who will never be on the consulting side of the business. These clients are different and are not a threat to each other. Benji says they attract the people who don’t have the time to learn it by showing that they know their field inside out. Meanwhile, the customers who don’t have the money for consulting, but may have the time to learn it on their own get to see the real-world ins and outs. Brennan points out that calls to action target the DIYers who tend to want an answer right now. However, the best consulting leads may be more open/flexible with their money while not having the personal time to invest in solving their problems. Building Relationships Brennan points out that there are other ways to get your agency’s reputation to new audiences. He gives the example of a lawyer he once heard speak about copyright law at a local conference. After seeing her presentation on everything there is to know about online copyrights, he has never hired her, but he has recommended her many times. Double Your Freelancing has hosted several business seminars based on the “forum of ideas” concept (as opposed to trying to shove customers into a sales funnel). Attendees and viewers don’t need to hire Brennan’s agency but he points out they unintentionally become “sleeper cell agents,” who simultaneously gain the knowledge they need and familiarity with Brennan’s authority. Again, the transparency of presentations, support groups and Q&A that tell attendees when to buy, when to build, when to find something off the shelf, builds that audience trust. Benji agrees and thinks having ulterior motives is a mistake lots of businesses make. Customers don’t want spam and may rethink their entire need if it looks like they’re in for the hard sell. If your audience believes you are trustworthy and credible, they will recommend you and eventually get on your list. Valuable content should be your focus, not the number of email subscribers. “If people care about what you have to say and feel that you’re adding value, they’ll naturally want to form some sort of relationship with you.” Guest posts are another way to build your authority and build trust, but Benji says he has published 4 out of hundreds of requests to post in the last two years. He says that when people send guest post requests they often optimize for volume rather than quality, using automation software and just plugging in a site’s or editor’s name. From an editor’s perspective, this does not inspire confidence or interest. For Benji, the requests to post that stand out have clearly done their research and look more like this: “Hey, I saw this article and loved [this one specific point you guys made]. I’ve been following you guys for a while and I’d like to write a guest post. Here is my [ONE] idea. Here are my results. I would love to share this story.” Proper research means knowing what the publication wants from their guest posts. Benji says to ask things like: Who is their audience? What kind of content do they post, Do they like long in-depth how-tos or something shorter? Then include the screenshots or evidence that shows you have a story they want to publish. Benji warns that this is not the time to take shortcuts. He says to build relationships rather than optimizing your time. Not only will that help you get accepted to begin with, it also means you could be invited back if you do exactly what the site wants. Brennan points out that likewise, co-promotion is based on relationships rather than some kind of unspoken understanding among online marketers as some people seem to think. He often gets requests from strangers in his network asking him to tell his audience about their new product. Without the trust of a deeper relationship (e.g. having met and chatted at a conference or worked together on a mutually beneficial project), he’s not inclined to risk his reputation or breach the trust he has with HIS audience. Benji agrees that building meaningful business relationships is as simple as asking “what’s in it for the other person?” He finds the best way to get a response is to do research, think about what’s in it for them, and make a pitch that benefits both parties. Similarly, when posting new content, Brennan asks himself “How do I make it clear that in taking the time to read this article (or whatever else) I link to, [the reader is] going to be better off than they were before this?” Thinking about the other party, valuing their time, and considering how many times you say “I,” “me,” “my” may prompt you to change the behavior and present more appealing content. Benji concludes, marketing is simply “thinking about what people want and giving it to them.” Based on this philosophy, he and Growth Lab started out with a course and ended up making a successful marketing agency. They researched where their target audience was, found out what information they were looking for, collected it, and then gave it to them. Benji and Devesh built the influence they needed to get on the radar of the high-value customers they want and developed the measurability needed to close the deal. GrowAndConvert.com Benji's Growthlab article John Doherty SEO Consulting https://growandconvert.com/content-marketing/customer-acquisition-cost/ Twitter: benjihyam@benjihyam LinkedIn: benjihyam@benjihyam

Will guest appearances on podcasts benefit your consulting business? Is it worth it to start your own podcast even if your audience is limited? Matt Inglot thinks it is! In this episode of DYF Podcast, Brennan talks to 2016 DYFConf speaker, Matt Inglot, about using podcasting to get consulting clients and expand your audience. When Matt started his podcast, Freelance Transformation, he didn’t expect it to have any effect on his web-development agency. More than 145 episodes later, he has found that the impacts have been manifold. Not only has his podcast become one of the most prominent in the freelancing community, but it also helped him develop his contacts and directly led to a $60,000 gig. Other benefits have been less obvious but just as empowering, and Matt has learned all of the right and wrong ways to podcast along the way. Key Takeaways: How to determine if podcasting is right for you How to book your first few guests How to build your listenership How to use podcasts to build your authority What tools and setup do you need to get started For the past 12 years Matt has run his agency, Tilted Pixel, with great success. He says that as a micro-agency he has been able to create a stable business and the life he was looking for without the 80 hour work-week one might typically expect. His newer venture is Freelance Transformation, his podcast, which launched in April 2015. Matt says Freelance Transformation initially had nothing to do with his consulting business --if it had, he pointed out, he would have built the podcast around the interests of potential clients. Instead, Freelance Transformation sprang out of Matt’s desire to spread the knowledge he’d acquired through his years of experience. He was also keen to get in and start a new online business after consulting on so many through the years. To his surprise, even though they weren’t directly related, Matt’s podcast brought a boost in his agency’s sales --including a $60,000 deal that came as a result of one recording. Freelance Transformation’s success (it hit 100,000 downloads within the first year and has now nearly tripled that) has allowed Matt to grow his existing agency while also seeing where the new venture takes him --and the first place it took him was MicroConf. Podcasting to Meet People The first lesson Matt says he learned while building Freelance Transformation is that, “podcasting is a great networking hack.” As he began looking for guests, Matt attended Microconf and found that right from the beginning, being able to say “Hi I’m Matt, I’m the host of Freelance Transformation,” is more of a conversation starter than “Hi, I’m Matt, I do web-design.” That year, Matt took his portable mic around the conference, recording some of his earliest stuff (including an episode with Brennan) and growing his experience --learning among other things, that recording in a noisy Vegas hotel during a conference is not ideal. Matt says that from that conference alone, he was able to develop a reputation among freelancers and find guests for his first 20 or so episodes. If you are considering podcasting, Matt recommends making these in-person connections and using events to start meaningful dialogues with potential guests. Matt found that having guest spots to offer on his podcast, opens doors to people who might have seemed off limits before. For Matt this included Brennan, Michael Port, Alan Weiss, Charlie Hoehn, and outside the consulting world, luxury concierge, Steve Sims. The podcast allowed him to have in-depth conversations with these giants and to stay in touch with them afterwards. As the rapport built, Matt’s guests started making suggestions and introductions of people who could either help Matt or be helped by him. Matt’s contact list snowballed, he says, and “next thing you know this inaccessible community is now accessible.” Do You Need An Audience? With these benefits alone, and even without an established audience, starting a podcast already has some advantages. Matt estimates that Freelance Transformation has added 10,000-15,000 new visitors to his site each month, but he has noticed that his increased business isn’t necessarily from people listening to his podcast. Rather, he believes most of these referrals to his site have come from the other professionals he has meet through hosting the podcast. So do listeners even matter? Of course they do. For Matt, a key motivator was being able to pass on wisdom and help develop the next generation of freelancers. But another clear advantage to having a large audience is that the further your reach, the more pull you’ll have for getting the guests you want on your show. Having a network, Brennan points out, also makes launching a new product easier. He says launching his newest product, RightMessage , was much simpler with an established audience and an unobtrusive way to get updates to his followers. His audience is often interested in seeing behind the scenes as his products develop so Brennan keeps them informed of every step along the way. Since Brennan is committed to providing useful examples of how to build and launch products, this audience relationship represents another win-win scenario that can come from podcasting. So how do you build your listenership? If you’re like Matt, and you’re not a born social media self-promoter, he recommends the following 3 step approach when launching a new podcast: Reach out to everyone you know and ask them to check out your new podcast and leave a review. While you probably won’t get long-term listeners from this exercise, the initial flood of downloads tells iTunes to pay attention. Chose guests strategically. Matt looked for guests who were consulting-oriented, and who had a great audience that he could borrow. When the guest sends out his/her social media blast you could be getting an extra hundred or thousand new eyes looking your way. Use events to build relationships with potential guests in your field. Conferences are expensive, including tickets, travel, accommodations and time away from normal operations. Finding new listeners with fliers and quick blurbs costs a lot in effort with minimal results. Instead, your mission should be to invest in face to face personal interactions at common-goal events. This can lead to guests who care about the success of the program --it can be the difference between a guest tweeting that they were on and them actually promoting you. Some of Matt’s Microconf contacts were even willing to give him their email lists! Positioning Podcasting is also a great way to position yourself in the freelance world. Brennan uses his guests’ networks to expand his own sphere of influence. He does some digging to learn who in his guest’s network he’d like to work with and seeks introductions via the mutual connection. For example, he might look at Matt’s previous Freelance Transformation guests, see who else has a podcast, select a couple, and if appropriate, he’ll message them saying, “Hey, I talked to our mutual friend, Matt Inglot, earlier this year. He suggested that I might be a good fit for your podcast.” Frequent wide-spread appearances on podcasts can build your credibility as an expert within your field. Brennan highlights wearables developer and former DYF Academy student, Justin Bergen, as the master here. While developing products, Justin hosted industry leaders on his podcast, giving them a spotlight and simultaneously shoring up a his new relationship with the guest. By asking the guests “do you know of anyone else in the industry who would be a good guest for my podcast?” he also expanded his contacts. Since the wearables niche is fairly small, he was able to make key introductions and establish himself as an expert in the wearables niche. This brings Matt to the point that Podcasting is also a comparatively simple way to publish within your field. “Rather than researching, writing, editing, rewriting, publishing and distributing a guest post or a whole book,” he says, “you can cut to the chase with twelve bullet points and a good microphone.” Matt points out that even after writing, editing and revising a book or even a much shorter guest post, you still have to find a way to publish/distribute it, but appearing on podcasts, is a lower-key ways of establishing your authority. After guesting on other podcasts enough times, you will start to notice that you have built your own audience. Telling Your Story A simple, subtle benefit to being a frequent podcast guest, is discovering the best way to articulate your message. Telling your story becomes easier each time you tell it: you’ll find your glossary becomes refined, your clarity improves, and your confidence builds. Matt mentions Jeremy Weiss from Mixergy who says of his podcast that even if no one were listening, the exercise would still be worth doing, and he would continue to run it. Of course this ties in to what we’ve said before since having your own podcast is a great gateway to appearing on other people’s. If you have your own podcast, other hosts know that you know what you’re doing, have the right equipment, and will deliver the audio they’re looking for. Your Guests are Your Research and Case Studies One easily overlooked benefit to hosting a podcast is the research value of discussing best practices with others in your field. Freelance Start, Matt’s course on freelancing was borne out of the 145+ episodes of the podcast. These serve as ”almost scientific data set” that he can referenced and have more information than if he were only citing his own experiences. One example of a discovery Matt made through his conversations, is that when he talked to people who were struggling to find clients, there was a correlation with how much time they spent on marketing. That is, Matt now has the numbers showing that the more effort one spends on marketing, the more clients their business will likely have. Similarly, Brennan’s aim in starting his new Right Message podcast was to talk with people who have DIYed or used other non Right Message tools to achieve personalized marketing. Hearing why they got into it and what they did wrong, Brennan expects to gain market research. Is podcasting right for you? Before starting out with your new podcast, Matt wants you to ask yourself what you hope to achieve. Having a podcast won’t get you new clients overnight and Matt warns that there are easier ways to create content if that is your only goal. So he urges you to have a strategy and a reason to do it. Things he suggests you think about when considering starting a podcast: Are there specific people you want to connect with? Are you focused on relationship building, and if so, with whom? Are you articulating ideas/thoughts clearly? (If yes, this helps you get on other people’s podcasts and to be great at it). What are some of the cons to consider? It is time consuming. Matt says when he started Freelancer Transformation, each episode took 10 hours to make from researching guests to editing and publishing. Now he has standard processes, he hires a company to produce the show, and he has a nice network through which he can easily find guests. None of that was established in the beginning so starting out, you need to recognize that it will take time. Another con is that it is not the greatest way to generate fast traffic to your site. If you are looking to generate a lot of traffic to your site quickly, you should focus on guesting (writing guest posts and appearing on other peoples’ podcast) to build that audience faster. Having your own podcast connects you with the specific people you want to connect with fast, but doesn’t help you reach the masses as much as one might think. Quick tips If you’ve read all of this and are ready to get your podcast underway, Matt has a few suggestions for you to check out. He recommends Pat Flynn’s free podcasting guide, and Jon Lee Dumas’ Podcaster's Paradise. Philip Morgan has a free article on all of the podcasting equipment he uses. Matt says to stay on the beaten path when starting your podcast and not to get too fancy or overthink things. For a microphone he suggests: ATR 2100 or the Yeti --they’re professional sounding, under $100 and you don’t have to dwell on the question longer than necessary. Matt says that if he were starting over, he would choose a simpler format since currently his shows involve pre intro, intro music, an introduction, the interview, outro, and outro music. If he were to redesign the whole thing, he says he would do everything live. He’d bring the guest on, introduce them, play the intro music and get down to it. By doing everything live, he would have saved hours of editing. Though it is tempting to want to innovate, he says to get the basics down and don’t overcomplicate things. Listeners are there for the expert content and don’t care about a spiffy sounding intro by a third party. One area where Matt says he made the right call was by not posting video as part of his podcast. He refrained from this primarily because video complicated things, but it is a waste of resources for ROI. If you are considering hosting video also, bear in mind that Matt says it won’t do great on youtube by itself. Clips, however, can be used on social media and to spark interest in your regular programing. In the end, hosting a podcast will not bring a flood of sales and traffic to your site. However, it can be a great gateway to the people in your field who seem off limits. It can help you refine your message and reinforce your authority. It can even give you the data you need in order to improve your products and services. Take it from expert, Matt, podcasting is an exercise worth engaging in, as long as you pay attention to the “whys” and set yourself up for success. For further reading, check out the links below: http://www.microconf.com/ https://freelancetransformation.com/ https://rightmessage.com/ Pat Flynn's Podcasting Tutorial Podcaster's Paradise Philip Morgan on Podcasting Justin Bergen Wearables

Where has Brennan been all this time (it's been 6 months!)? And what's next for the Double Your Freelancing podcast?

My guest today is Kelsey Kreiling, co-founder of Presence Agency and creator of Week of the Website, a productized website design business. Kelsey is a designer and website builder who has grown multiple businesses from the ground up. Her newest business, Week of the Website, builds amazing websites for their customers in only five days. On today’s episode we discuss her experience transitioning from client work to a productized service business model. Today’s topics include: Getting started in productized services, Focusing clients for success with clear communication, Using set processes to streamline service products, Building referral channels and recurring revenue, Opportunities for productized services in your own business Resources and links: Double Your Freelancing Academy Week of the Website Week of the Website - Website planning tool Presence Agency Kelsey Kreiling - Website Kelsey Kreiling - LinkedIn Kelsey Kreiling - Twitter FreshBooks Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends

Today I’m talking with Joanna Wiebe, the founder of CopyHackers.com. CopyHackers is an online resource for everything you need to know about copywriting, including many informative case studies. Her new project, Airstory, is a fantastic content production tool for high-performance writing teams. Joanna taught me how to write effective sales copy and on today’s episode we discuss her Rule of One: how you can make sure that when you do write, your writing is focused on talking to one customer archetype. Today’s topics include: The Rule of One: 4-part definition and implementation, Niched marketing and personalized customer experience, Creating a reader archetype, Stages of customer awareness: problem, solution and product, Big ideas and your promise to the customer, Analyzing your offer to find missing details, Questioning common “best practices” Resources and links: Double Your Freelancing Academy Drip Email Marketing Automation - Double Your Freelancing Course CopyHackers.com Airstory Joanna Wiebe - Google+ Joanna Wiebe - Twitter Joanna Wiebe - LinkedIn FreshBooks Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends

My guest today is Meryl Johnston, founder of the international accounting agency Bean Ninjas. She has a background in accounting and began her first business as a consultant. She has grown her current business from the ground up and is now generating over $100,000 in recurring revenue through monthly productized bookkeeping services. We discuss her career, how she transitioned to a productized service business and lessons learned along the way. Today’s topics include: Transition from consulting to productized services Launching in seven days and growing the business through referrals Developing product offerings and pricing strategy Lessons learned since launch: hiring, customer niches Aligning marketing to customer niche Sales processes for productized services versus consulting Value of informational sales calls Resources and links: Bean Ninjas Dan Norris - 7 Day Startup Trello Project Management You Need a Budget Double Your Freelancing Meetup Groups Double Your Freelancing Academy FreshBooks Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends Hopefully the fact that your show of support will keep the podcast going is reward enough for you. But we want to sweeten the deal for you even further: After you’ve published your review, send an email to kai@doubleyourfreelancing.com. You’ll get an exclusive video from Double Your Freelancing Conference — James Clear's talk on Developing Better Work Habits — absolutely free. Click here to make it happen!

Today I’m talking with Barry O’Kane on niching down and creating a location independent business. He’s a Double Your Freelancing Academy student who has been working with Philip Morgan for the past few months while living in Edinburgh, Scotland and running his online business: Happy Porch. Barry has over 15 years experience in the web development industry and became location independent four years ago. Today’s topics include: Double Your Freelancing new drip email marketing automation course The importance of using Mastermind groups to improve focus in your business Mastermind group structure, leadership and relationships Running a distributed team using structured communication processes Recent evolution of Double Your Freelancing Academy How Barry founded his company Happy Porch Resources and links: Drip Email Marketing Automation - Double Your Freelancing Course Double Your Freelancing Academy Happy Porch Endzone Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends Here is what one loyal listener had to say about the Double Your Freelancing podcast: After you’ve published your review, send an email to kai@doubleyourfreelancing.com. You’ll get an exclusive video from Double Your Freelancing Conference — James Clear's talk on Developing Better Work Habits — absolutely free. Click here to make it happen!