Double Your Freelancing Podcast

What parts of your funnel should be automated? How can you create urgency without building extensive “limited time offer” workflows into your automation? Is it possible to give even better service with less person to person contact? In this first episode of DYF Podcast Season 2 on Automation, Franz Sauerstein addresses all of the various steps in his sales funnel and how he helps others automate thiers. He shares tricks of the trade like getting clients to self-qualify before he even becomes involved. He and Brennan also discuss the next step in optimizing automation: Personalization. Go in depth with Franz as he walks us through his process from beginning to end. Key Takeaways: How to create urgency with self-assessments How to follow up with cooled leads How to provide a better user experience through automation The best way to segment leads following sales calls Franz Sauerstein is a two-time DYFConf EU participant and was a Student Success Coach for the now retired, Double Your Freelancing Academy. His consultancy, Xciting Webdesign, specializes in optimizing European e-commerce stores through automation. By employing tools like Drip (marketing) and Pipedrive (customer relationship manager), Franz’s company primarily takes businesses generating 5 figure revenues and turns them into businesses consistently generating 6 figure revenues. In his own practice, Franz uses automation to find, qualify, transact, and follow up with clients. So how do Franz’s daily workflows break down? Let’s walk through his practices. In the past, Franz has had a very involved process for drawing in leads. Although the steps of this process have not changed too much, the execution of each component has. Franz’s funnel starts with well-centered blog posts which he pays to have appear on social media venues like Facebook. These posts feature opt-ins with content upgrades including pdfs and ebooks that Franz says teach readers “how they can make their stores more successful and live the lives they want.” Content upgrades Franz has used include things like a guide covering “23 Ways To Increase Conversion Rates.” Because the topics speak to his target clients’ needs and provide relevant, accurate information, Franz is able to draw his leads’ attention and foster their trust in his expertise. Previously, when a lead would opt in, Franz would nurture them and after a few weeks or a few months they would fill out a qualifying form and jump on a call. In addition to automating several steps along the way, Franz has flipped the script on the qualification process. Franz now offers a self assessment to the client that will show them how much revenue they’re losing by not acting fast to employ his services. Although there are great tried and true methods for creating urgency on the sales side of the equation (offer a limited sale, create limited availability, offer a bundle discount etc), Franz wanted to create a sense of urgency on the customer’s side. He created an online form with Brevity, Zapier and Drip software. When a customer downloads the PDF, Drip logs the event and triggers a follow up for the following day. Although the assessment is standard, the response is tailored to what the reader’s shop needs. The wording in the follow up message changes based on what else the customer has read and what info they’re pursuing, making this one area Franz has optimized for personalization. The next step in this funnel is that Franz sends a suggestion of a 30 minute free consultation for qualified leads. If the lead accepts, then the workflow is complete and the info is then shuffled over to his CRM. If they don’t take the phone call then he will continue sending automated messages to the lead for 9 weeks with content along the lines of what they’ve shown interest in. These messages build trust with information-rich content and build urgency by asking if the customer has taken action yet. Franz says leads usually respond by the fourth or fifth email but if there is no response after 9 weeks, he will close the file. He says about 50% of the leads who are left by the time he sends the last email do actually respond at that point. Brennan asks Franz how selling has changed for him now that he’s introduced so much automation into his business. Franz says that for starters, sales calls were awful before he automated. Without the trust and the qualification that he has since built into his automation, Franz found it hard to sell clients on strategy. He was also getting the wrong kinds of leads. Like most of us selling services, he doesn’t want clients who want to DIY. Instead, Franz needs clients who want to focus on other aspects of their businesses while he implements the strategy they’ve agreed to. The self-qualifying questionnaire helps ensure Franz is getting the leads he wants and clients know want to expect from his services before getting on the first sales call. One of the best changes Franz made was replacing the phone number on his website with an email form. It may seem counterintuitive, but with the emails, Franz was able to offer better, more personalized customer service. How can service be more personalized when it doesn’t even involve direct interaction with a person? First, Franz’s email form asks for a quick description of the client’s project. He has then set up an auto-reply for these incoming messages which reads, “That sounds interesting, I have a few more qualifying questions…” The tone of the auto-reply, coupled with the fact that it is sent within 5 minutes of the initial message means Franz is now able to engage with customers even if they are in another time zone, or just checking out his site at 3 am, or even if Franz is away from the computer. Early engagement increases conversions so this can be a big help later down the road. Clients also have time to get the wording on their requests precise instead of struggling to articulate on a call, and Franz has a reference he can look to if there’s ever a risk of misunderstanding. Lastly, anyone who doesn’t want to fill in the second form, probably isn’t that committed to using Franz’s service. This tactic quickly weeds out those dead end leads, saving time. Less wasted time means more time to spend on paying customer’s projects which naturally improves the client experience. Once all of the sorting and qualifying has happened and the lead requests a call with Franz, a Drip follow up is sent with instructions for working out the logistics. Brennan advises tracking call statuses and clients via a CRM like Close.io. Unlike Pipedrive which has a mostly linear funnel, Close allows Brennan to have a “Booked Calls” section in which he can rate the call and Drip will respond accordingly. After a call, Brennan will go into Close and select “good fit,” “bad fit,” or “no show.” That status prompts Drip to move the leads to next step which might be a roadmapping session promo for good fit, the newsletter for bad fit, or calendly for re-booking if the person is a no show. Some parts of the sales funnel should not be automated --often, namely, the sale. While some products like online courses can run on sales automation, most consulting and service products like Roadmapping sessions, development, and even full audits must be done manually There are some things that can make these processes easier though like ready-made templates. Brennan mentions an SEO audit he recently hired an expert to conduct on DoubleYourFreelancing.com. The auditors clearly had a template they use for every gig that includes best practices and suggestions for each area they grade. The gig-specific information is then added so that the nuances of each recommendation are most apparent without having to re-write the guiding principles for every deliverable. Nusii proposal software has a reporting system with a similar guiding process that allows users to load in a report which they will use to build a template. That document will include standard next steps and best practices but allows room for users to fill in the blanks with project-specific suggestions. All of that can then be used as a template for a roadmapping deliverable. Franz uses Pipedrive and Drip to remind him to follow up with people after roadmapping to send them an invoice or reach out. The first two projects (roadmapping and whatever comes out of that) are usually low margin or low revenue so Franz knows the value of automating these processes. Return customers are more profitable so getting hands-on at this later stage is more financially worth his time. Brennan asks Franz what is left that he’d like to do in his business that he hasn’t yet. Franz is certain that more can be done with the amount of data he has on his leads and visitors. In the future he plans to optimize conversion rates and plug the few leaky spots in his funnel. Franz is looking towards more personalization alla Right Message and is planning to test Right Message with a client first (since their need is more urgent than his own). Franz notes that personalization is built on account-based marketing strategies that have existed for decades and are now being merged with and facilitated by technology. He intends to start adding information about leads he meets in person to the data set he’s gathered about leads who have found him online. Franz believes that short of Amazon, personalization is still a pretty under-used practice in Europe and he’d love to break this new ground in his market. Franz’s funnel follows a classic and effective trajectory. It starts with paid ads featuring content upgrades and opt-ins. Next, leads complete a self qualifying form. Leads who are on Franz’s page can email him and receive a near-instant response asking for more info. Leads then book a sales call or receive follow up emails until they do at which point roadmapping can begin and follow up is again handled by automation. Although Franz needs to be present for certain parts of his sales process, automation has allowed him to take more time focusing on existing, paid clients rather than chasing down new leads. He is able to connect with leads quicker, build trust more organically, qualify clients more accurately, and deliver a stronger product, all thanks to the introduction of automation into his business. As his business grows, Franz will seek to build on the traditional idea of account-based marketing through automated personalization. For now, he is enjoying the streamlined experience of having an optimized sales funnel and sharing his knowledge with others. Franz Sauerstein's site (in German) If you don’t speak German, email Franz at info@franzsauerstein.de The CRM Franz uses The CRM Brennan uses RightMessage (Brennan's Personalization Tool) Brevity Development Software Zapier Automation Software Nusii Proposal Software Drip Marketing Software Franz Sauerstein is the founder of Germany-based Xciting Webdesign which specializes in turning businesses that generate 5 figure revenues into businesses that generate 6 figure revenues through automation and webdesign. He is a two-time DYFConf EU participant and Student Success Coach for the, now retired, Double Your Freelancing Academy.

In this wrap up of Season 1, Brennan synthesizes the many insights from the first five episodes into a single step by step strategy for getting more clients. As a way to bring cohesion to the guests’ different approaches, Brennan follows the outline of DYF’s newest course, The Blueprint: Getting Clients Online. To get clients online, you’ll need to create a proper sales funnel. You’ll need to develop a service offering, validate it, set up proper marketing for it, and attract your clients. Since sales funnels can be leaky you’ll also need to look at the greater process and track where you’re losing your potential clients. You can start by thinking about what your end-goal is: a technical service offering, a consultation, a physical product sale, etc. In determining what form your end-goal will take and how to best present it, you should create a positioning statement or proposal. A good proposal takes a client’s need and merges it with the skills or services that you provide. The proposal will be a positioned statement of work/opt in, or service offering. Of course, you’ll want to front-load all of the steps that lead your customer to your proposal into your funnel and automate for something more systematically scalable than a one-off proposal, but starting with this concept will help you build backwards. Eventually, you will create a funnel leads the client to the sales offering from moment one. Brennan encourages you to ask yourself what “unfair advantage” you have over your competition based on your previous experience, your talents and skills, or your familiarity with your clients’ pain points. This edge, combined with your work history can help you create a positioning statement that will anchor your business. Your statement should answer the questions, “who?” “what?” and “why?” You should identify who your target audience is, what their common problem is, and why you are uniquely capable of solving it. Once you have this statement, you will be able to anchor your business within a reasonable scope and avoid tempting tangents that might be mistaken for growth opportunities. Brennan warns that the funnel should not be the summation of your business but rather just one channel through which you acquire leads. From here, Brennan’s process involves creating an internal manifesto. This takes the two or so sentence positioning statement and develops it into a set of guidelines. The manifesto will include information about target clients like who they are, how they describe themselves, their language and terms, where can they be found, what are the implications if their problem can’t be solved, what are their business risks, and what is the upside for them if it is fixed? Brennan points out that you shouldn’t speculate on the answers to these questions. He references Joanna Wiebe of Copyhackers who says the best content should be curated not created. She encourages consultants to listen to their target audience, dig deep, make calls and find out what they actually need in their own words. Brennan says your internal manifesto should be a living document that develops as you add new information made up of the actual language and pains that your customers have. Brennan concludes that while the positioning statement is looking outward (“looking at my backstory, I think I can do _____ for you”), the manifesto is a more inclusive expansion of that that features actual production data (language, themes etc). The next step Brennan recommends is creating a “marketable document” from your manifesto findings. This is document could simply be a google doc, but it will help you normalize the data you’ve come up with to make your service or product marketable. Questions we seek to address in this document include: What beliefs, values and worldview do these clients have? What are their goals? What is the monetizable pain of they’re facing? What common objections do they have? What are they fighting against? What insenses them? By reducing this information into what are essentially the components of a sales letter (identify problem, create the solution and then make the offer) you can create a product that is derived from the customers’ actual need and surround it with the information your customers need to hear to dispel their objections. This document alone could lead to your first sales as you shop it around for feedback, but its main purpose is just to validate your product. You’ll want to get feedback from the people you’ve already talked to who fit the profile you’re targeting. Let them know you’ve been developing the product based on what you learned from them and from other conversations you’ve had and ask what they think about it and if what you have created addresses their pain points in the best way possible. If so, then you’re ready to build your sales offering. The “sales offering” will become the destination at the end of your funnel --the goal that you are leading your customers to where they either buy or don’t buy your product. Unlike the marketable document you created, your sales offering needs to be shareable (i.e. a webpage rather than a document). Brennan encourages you to avoid the common pitfall of selling and educating simultaneously. Instead, he wants you to think about how you can make your customer problem-aware before they even get to your services page. Customers who are problem-aware may not know you have a service that can help them but they will know what they need help with and that should make your service offering much more appealing. The job of the services page is to get clients to book a consultation, buy your product or hire you and of course these transactions all require that they trust you. As you build your funnel backwards, each step is about preparing the client for the next stage of the funnel. In this case, your next step will be to establish trust so the stage before the offering page might be a “freebie offer.” (The stage before that one will be about ensuring the customer is eager to opt in to the free content). A freebie offer is a product you’re selling in exchange for an email address and the customer’s time. Some freebie offerings we’ve seen in our Season 1 podcast episodes are Kev Kaye’s webinars and Josh Doody’s email templates. In both of these examples, the freebies are exchanged for contact information and time --which can be the foundation of a relationship between client and service provider. They also ensure that the customer is problem aware. Freebie offers take a lot of different forms including webinars and workshops, email courses, content upgrades, assessments, quizzes etc. (for Brennan they were initially free live seminars in his office). The marketable document you created should tell you what your customer’s needs are, and your freebie should tell them the solution. Though it may seem counterintuitive to “give away the answer,” the target client will be someone who is not a do it yourselfer. Good clients will recognize they have a problem and will trust your authority and experience to fix it. Not only does every stage of the funnel have a job, it should also have a call to action. This should focus on giving the client the shortcut to a solution. With the freebie, the offer is: you’re now fluent in the problem, here is the solution or you can hire me to take care of it for you. So we’ve started with conceptualization and created a product that our target clients want to buy. We’ve given them the means to do it, and the incentive to trust us. How then, do we get the attention of those target customers? Our episodes featuring Matt Inglot and Benji Hyam provide some excellent ideas for getting in front of your target audience. Matt spoke to podcasts (both guesting on them and hosting one) as a method for broader visibility. Benji meanwhile, talked about blogging as one method of establishing authority. Brennan points out that this is also the model for Double Your Freelancing. He first provides free content that his audience finds through SEO, referrals and other channels. The content proves that he can help his target client by offering solutions to their problems so they then opt into his freebie offers. These further establish the trust between DYF and the customer so that hopefully, they’ll follow the call to action and purchase a product. Brennan, like Matt Olpinski, offers products in addition to consulting services. Both of them have needed to bridge the gap between freebie opt-ins and high value services which can be a vast expanse when someone first hears of them. Brennan says the key to this is first getting in front of the customer through a guest post, podcast appearance, seminar or other means (Facebook ads in Kev Kaye’s case, brilliant SEO in Matt Olpinski’s case) and inviting the customer to “go more in depth” by offering a freebie that amplifies whatever has just been discussed. Since this freebie comes at just the price of contact information, Brennan says leads will be much more comfortable with that point of entry than they are with booking an appointment on your calendar or immediately filling in an application etc. Since most people aren’t going to opt-in to your service offering or even necessarily your freebie offering, Brennan says you need to have some long-term nurturing elements in your funnel. He calls this “nudging the 98%” since far more people are likely to ignore your offering on sight than will opt in. Like Josh Doody, Brennan’s approach is using great content to keep his business at the forefront of the customer’s mind, building the trust needed to ensure they’ll opt in once they feel comfortable, have the appropriate need, or have the financial means to do so. One example of great content, as discussed in Episode 2, is developing case studies into blog posts. Potential clients will be able to see themselves in the examples of people you’ve helped, and get a glimpse of the action you’ll be able to take on their behalf, plus results you’ve proven you can achieve. Another example of relevant content is a summary of new strategies you might have heard about at a conference you’ve attended. Since all of this content should include a call to action, each of these articles serves as its own entry point into your funnel. Reinforcing your value this way also nurtures those leads that are in your funnel (maybe via an email list opt-in or other method) but haven’t opted into a product yet. More information about nudging and nurturing will be at the forefront of Season 2 which will cover automation, but the main takeaway Brennan wants to emphasize here is that content should be working for you. When talking about lead generation, Brennan challenges listeners to think about the job/purpose of each page on their website and how well it is being executed. Matt Olpinski’s website, for example, is expertly optimized for local traffic. Since most first time visitors to his site will have found him through a blind Google search (vs a referral or an otherwise established presence), his landing page and supporting content are tailored appropriately. By exploring the purpose of the page and what you want your leads to get out of it, you can maximize the effectiveness of each page, email and other supporting content. Lastly, Brennan invites you to take a look at the view from 10,000 feet which means stepping back and looking at the funnel as a whole. Essentially, you will be promoting your free content (via SEO, giving talks, blog posts, Facebook ads or numerous other methods), in order to get the lead to opt in to the freebie offering. The freebie offering, or lead magnet, points to the service offering by which point, the client should already be problem aware and have some level of trust in you. At this point, you will highlight the problem again and make a case for how you can bridge the gap. From there, you’ll ask the customer to fill in an application, book a consultation or even pay for a roadmapping session. For the 98% who don’t buy into the service offering, you will continue to nurture them by feeding actionable content into your list, redirecting them back to the freebie offering and staying front of mind for them. Though you can’t control when your leads may need your services, when they’ll be able to opt in, or who they’ll recommend you to, you can “increase your luck’s surface area,” as Brennan calls it, by being present and ready with what they need when they need it. For Brennan, one of the most fascinating parts of the process (and the reason he got into automation) is putting a value on each type of lead. He recommends that you work out the dollar (or your currency of choice) amount that each lead represents. If 10% of people who book a consultation actually become a client, and if an average client project is $10,000, then each consultation, has a value of about $1000 to you. From there, you can work backwards and figure out how much each opt in is worth (if 20% of people who land on your services page book a consultation, then each unique visitor to your service offering page is worth $200 to you). As you continue working backwards with the numbers, you get an idea of how many people you’ll need to get to your service offering page in order to hit your financial goals. You’ll be able to spot opportunities in your funnel (e.g. if you have lots of people opting in to your freebie but very few consultations being booked, you’ll know that’s a leaky spot in your funnel that you can plug with trust-building elements, better sales copy etc.). If you’re using paid acquisition (see Episode 4), pricing out your types of leads is essential since you’ll know exactly what to spend vs what ROI you’ll see. All of the lead generation and sales funnel strategies Brennan discusses in this episode are explored much more extensively in DYF’s lead generation course, The Blueprint, and in the previous episodes of the DYF podcast Season 1. Though it is helpful knowing what strategies our guests used to get in front of their customers and close the deals that made them successful, Brennan encourages listeners to dig into the details and learn the whys and hows of each tactic. You can do this by listening to the previous 5 Episodes, or you can download the free Season 1 e-book which covers each episode-in depth. Building your familiarity with different lead generation techniques can help you expand your reach and create a more effective sales funnel. Joanna Wiebe's site, CopyHackers Matt Inglot: Lead Generation via Podcasts Benji Hyam: Lead Generation via Content Marketing Josh Doody: Optimizing for Opt-ins and Conversions Kev Kaye: Lead Generation via Paid Acquisition Matt Olpinski: How to Master SEO with Basic Changes

Matt Olpinski is a full-time independent design consultant based in Rochester, NY. He has been designing user interfaces and websites for almost a decade, many of them leading to rapid user growth, large increases in sales, and millions in startup funding. Matt has designed native apps, responsive web apps, e-commerce websites, and marketing websites for clients in many industries including: fitness, shopping, video, food & beverage, industrial, law, education, automotive, music, social, SaaS, enterprise, non-profits, and more. Matt Olpinski is a UI and UX designer who had over 200 viable project leads in 2017. Through casual, but precise SEO, he’s become an expert in giving clients what they want. Matt’s site ranks extremely well on Google searches in his niche and with minor site tweaks, he’s ensured these leads go from “shopping around” to conversion. He shared some of his techniques with Brennan in this week’s DYF podcast on Lead Generation through SEO. Takeaways: How to create a useful message What simple changes can you make for better SEO How to use case studies to build trust How to boost traffic with social media How to close the deal over the competition Independent UI designer, Matt Olpinski never intended to freelance full time. After college he was looking for a comfortable job to make a comfortable life, and he was just freelancing on the side. Despite this side-hustle approach, Matt’s designer instincts always had him aiming for a “pixel perfect” portfolio and site. Through his refining, he stumbled on some strategies that made too big an impact to ignore, and he shared some of these tactics with Brennan on this episode of the DYF podcast. The first big change that drove Matt’s shift towards great SEO was seeing an early edition of Double Your Freelancing’s The Blueprint. The course changed Matt’s outlook as he realized there was more potential to grow his freelancing business if he began to focus on his clients rather than himself. Just by changing his focus and positioning, Matt increased his leads, rate, and ranking, but at first he didn’t really understanding why. After some investigation, Matt realized that simply providing what clients were looking for (and presenting it that way) made him a better search result for Google to come up with, thereby increasing his SEO. From there, the growth compounded. So what actual changes lead to this turn around? The Little Things Matt’s original site was similar to many freelance web designer’s sites in that it said, “I'm a UX Designer. I built websites. Here's my work. Here’s how you contact me.” When he shifted focus, Matt’s site’s design, copy, and language changed. It now sounded more like “Hi, I’m Matt, I build websites that help businesses grow.” He started thinking like a client and his testimonials began highlighting metrics clients might find valuable and associate with project success. He found that clients don’t necessarily care about fancy transitions, they care about what Matt is going to do for their website. Matt also found that when they get to his site, leads have obstacles to overcome before hiring him, so he recognized that his site was an opportunity to address and allay those obstacles. Matt’s approach was a little more laid back than it could have been since he had a fulltime job and still viewed freelancing as his side project. However, small tactical changes made a big difference in traffic. He ensured his page titles were consistent, wrote unique page descriptions for each of his big pages (home page, service page, project page). He found that by making descriptions unique helped instead of having either nothing or a generic description that shows up on every page. He rewrote/shortened his page slug URLs and took out breaks and stop words. Matt approached the changes not as an expert, but just looking at the logic of creating desirable content. Although SEO has a slimy reputation, Matt points out that there are a lot of very simple changes others can do to increase the viability of their site. Plus, giving clients what they want (and making it easy to find) is a win-win strategy. What Clients Search For As Matt began consciously optimizing, he asked himself, “What are my clients searching for?” There are numerous tools and lists to help users find the best search terms, and as a designer, Matt turned to Dribble and Behance. As he reverse engineered popular searches, Matt realized that he learns three things about his clients through their search terms: What task his customers wanted to complete: (search terms might be UX Design, UI Design, or Web Development). His clients’ geographic location (if they're in New York, they might type in UI Designer in New York). What kind of person they wanted to hire (freelance, consultant, agency etc). Now Matt discovers what the customer wants in their own words, and because of this, he’s better able to provide and present it. For example, he could answer the above queries by titling his page: “Matt Olpinski, Freelance UI Designer, New York.” To prove his theory, Matt asked clients what they searched to find him. In addition to validating this theory, this data has informed further SEO. Brennan points out that tools like Google Search Console can also trace what terms people actually used to get to your site and where they landed etc. Information on adjacent searches can allow sites to pull in traffic that might have skipped them otherwise. For example, he says Matt could add content to draw in people looking for a UX Development Agency in NY. This content could actually be an argument convincing them of why they should use a freelancer instead. Of course with his current success, Matt isn’t looking to make any harder sells, but Brennan points out that there is always opportunity for further optimization. What Clients Find Content has made a big difference in Matt’s ability to project authority and and he has found case studies to be his preferred format. Initially, Matt’s site featured images with captions to let the work speak for itself. He has since flipped this model to show each project’s process and how his decisions impacted each business. Although he only presents 6-8 projects on his site, Matt writes extensively about each one. He writes not just what he did but also why he did it, and the thought process behind each action. This humanizes the work and Matt has taken this further by integrating the related testimonials directly onto the project page. Instead of just presenting a menu of services, Matt’s site explains what UI and UX design are and how they might be used in a project; “Instead of just listing what I can do, I tell people why that's important for them,” says Matt. Other ways that Matt shares his process and builds authority include his blog, his newsletter, and guest posts on freelancing websites. Not only does this content help SEO by keeping his site relevant, Matt says that when a client sees he’s written over 60 articles on a topic, they know that he is a good choice to hire. Brennan agrees that seeing inside a potential collaborator’s head is key to building trust. It can help clients feel justified in making a purchase. He suggests that if you’re struggling to find blog topics, write about a few ideas that came out of your latest sales meeting (without giving away too much specific project information). The details of brainstorming are helpful. As an example, Brennan mentions a client meeting with a realtor that he wrote about. The realtor wanted to follow up with clients after they’d bought a house from him so that they use him again when they sell it five years down the line and he could gain referrals. Brennan built software to remind the realtor a month after the purchaser is settled in, to check in and ask “How are the neighbors, what do you love about the house?” etc. While the specifics seem mundane to the developer who lived through it, their audience might actually find them useful/inspiring, and potential clients are energized by the success story. This is exactly what Brennan looks for when he hires people too. He says, backing convincing sales copy with “the Mind of Matt Olpinski” insights is a much stronger draw than the copy alone. To make things easier on his leads, Matt places most of these thought process insights into his case studies. That way a client doesn't have to look through a bunch of articles to piece together how he thinks. They see his work on the landing page and can click into the project to read about how it came to light. Matt tries to include the “before” version of the project before his changes so that he can show where it came from and where he took it. “Seeing that transition is really valuable,” he says. Blog posts drive traffic in conjunction with social media updates also. Matt finds that most of this traffic is from other freelancers, but he has had some project inquiries from these articles. For the most part, Matt’s audience is split in two. He has the clients on the consulting side of his business and the “level up you career by joining my newsletter,” peer side of his business. Although the sides are separate (color cues and other dividers make this clear to site visitors), Matt believes the freelancer side of his site probably helps reinforce the idea that a potential client should contact him. It builds his authority/credibility while not directly serving the needs of his consulting clients. It tells these clients about his professionalism. Outshining the Competition No matter how high the rankings, potential clients are probably shopping around for service providers and won’t stop at just one site. So how does Matt draw clients back to his? He feels the primary draw is his “what do clients want?” approach. Matt hopes his clients get to his site and say “Oh, that’s exactly what I wanted to hear!” instead of just seeing a portfolio and contact information. From simple changes in the copy, to thinking about what buttons clients want to have available, and eventually what details they need to see about his process, Matt works to give clients what they’re looking for and so far it sets him miles apart. Brennan acknowledges a necessary balance between speaking the language of business and speaking the language of design. Using the right search terms in the right places, proving his design skill and talking to the prospective clients about THEIR business allows Matt to stand out. Matt also argues depth of content is a huge benefit. Even if some of his content is not directly what a client is looking for, all of his content matters and drives visitors to the site which boosts his ranking --the freelancing side gets him the clicks so the consultant side can find him easily. Having an older domain helps too, but Matt says not to worry, it isn’t the end of the world if you don’t. In the end, providing what clients want, also answers what Google wants. To boost his SEO, Matt considered what page titles he had, what URLs he was submitting to google, and what each were saying once a human being finally saw them. With blog posts and articles, Matt provided more fodder for Google to reward while allowing potential clients to get into his head and feel confident about hiring him. Matt says anyone can make these changes too. He says to, “pay attention to the small stuff. Pay attention to goofy things like alt descriptions on your images, and the length of your URLs and the kind of order of pages on your site, [and also] the page titles.” He says to stay consistent on social media and just call yourself one thing. Overall, simple tactics and a clean up to refocus your site on customer needs can make a big difference in results and Matt is living proof. Matt Olpinski's website Matt's Ultimate Guide to Getting More Clients DYF's The Blueprint Behance.net Dribble.com

Kev Kaye, founder of GrowthBOKs.com, shares insights on using paid ads for client acquisition, creating on-demand webinars, optimizing ad targeting with Facebook's algorithm, selling higher ticket services, and streamlining the funnel by qualifying leads and automation.

As a salary negotiation expert, Josh Doody faces a unique challenge -- how to convert a lead within the first hours of them visiting his site. Josh’s clients often find him within an hour or two of their salary discussions and are looking for help fast, cheap and with big results. His challenge has been to draw in clients sooner, address their needs right away, and to make sure they know he’s there for them long-term. He talks with Brennan about the tricks he’s learned for getting leads into his funnel, the best ways to experiment with your site, and what changes he’s had to make over the years. Takeaways: How to conduct useful SEO research and apply it to your content How to use content upgrades to optimize for opt-ins How to adjust your message for different clients Learning about clients by reading between the lines How to edit and refine your funnel Josh Doody, founder of FearlessSalaryNegotiation.com, teaches salaried employees how to make more money. His funnel starts with search engine optimization and excellent content marketing, then uses a variety of other tools, including research, reputation, and automation, to turn leads into conversions. Since many people find his site as they’re about to enter salary discussions with an employer, Josh works to get leads in earlier, show his value quickly, and convince potential clients to slow down their approach. Josh adjusts his message and sales approach depending on how quickly leads need his help. He has also found that drawing traffic to his site is a key variable that he’s able to control. So how does he do it? Getting Clicks Josh identifies himself first and foremost as a writer. Not only has he written several books about salary negotiation, but he says the long form, free, educational content on his site is his biggest draw for new visitors. Josh writes what he think will be valuable to his audience and then checks which of these topics are getting traffic and being shared. He’ll then double down on those pages by enhancing them or writing more along those lines. From this very basic, manual search engine optimization, Josh has been able to create organic traffic resulting in 55,000 unique visits per month. “Google is really good at finding what people are searching for,” Josh says, so he focuses less on getting the exact wording right, and more on targeting his audience’s specific informational needs. Josh also likes to increase clicks by building his authority. By answering questions on forums like Quora, Josh is not only able to point to his site and increase his click rate, but also, to learn what information his audience is seeking and what responses resonate with them. Appearing on podcasts is another tactic he’s used to boost his numbers. Brennan points out that podcast guesting will generate some traffic in the first week or so of the episode going out (especially with the help of social media bumps). However, there is a long term benefit in the permanent backlink from that podcast’s host site. Josh agrees, between appearing as a podcast guest and writing articles for other recognizable sites, Google will see the backlinks and realize that your site is “worth paying attention to.” An advantage to having a large audience (like Josh’s 1500+ unique clicks per day) is being able to run occasional experiments. Though he sometimes runs two day a/v tests for special offers, Josh generally prefers to run 90 day experiments to learn what visitors will do for downloadable bonuses, which ones get the most traffic etc. Josh remembers starting these exercises too early in his site’s life and finding it only wasted time; with too small an audience, the changes are too insignificant to achieve measurable results. He says early on, a consultant’s focus should be pretty much entirely on getting more traffic, seeing what brought in that traffic and using that information to get more traffic. He adds, that barring some kind of algorithm change or massive platform change, Google Analytics information is also pretty helpful. Generating Opt-Ins Josh found his first opportunity to optimize his funnel when he noticed he’d been getting mediocre email opt ins from organic traffic --only about 1%. He evaluated his site and isolated the problem: he was giving too much away and his lead magnets were too generic. So Josh looked at which pages were bringing in the most traffic and thought about how to optimize them. With 20,000 visitors per month on some of these pages, even going from 1% to 2% opt ins would be a meaningful jump so he started there. He considered content upgrades he might be able to offer on those pages. On one article, he pulled the email templates that had been embedded in the text and created a linked PDF that customers could only access by opting in. Josh says this flipped the switch on this page and and his opt ins there are now around 4-5%. Since the 8000+ word article is still providing useful information on a topic his readers care about, Josh is still getting the traffic he wanted and building trust with his audience. Josh points out that this idea can be taken further in that the templates can become a product in and of themselves (e.g. he could provide 2 for free, and then charge a flat rate of $19 for the rest). Josh says that knowing which articles will do well before offering the content upgrade is key. He limits his focus to 4 or 5 pages that get a lot of traffic and thinks about what the lead magnet should be for each one, then builds it accordingly. He creates category specific baseline calls to action to help with each lead magnet. Creating Conversions Josh’s funnel is based on his statement “I can help you raise your salary,” and the first step is figuring out exactly how he can do that best. Josh starts by asking opt-ins, “When are you negotiating your salary?” This helps him profile his visitors, divide them into categories based on urgency, and respond to them appropriately. In his first response to them, Josh tries to describe the situation he thinks the client is in and what he can do to address their need. It is not uncommon for people to find Josh’s site moments or just a couple of hours before sending their salary negotiation email or before entering talks --they’ll download his email templates in a last ditch effort to prepare. For these opt-ins, Josh urges them to take their salary negotiation process a little bit slower and to hear what possibilities his services can facilitate. The email these clients will see says “don’t send that counter offer yet!” Since these clients are on an abbreviated timeline, Josh knows they are more suited to the product side of his business than coaching. However, if a lead is seeking a raise at an existing job, Josh knows his customer’s timeline will be a bit more laid back. In this case, he can pitch the coaching aspect of his work and phrase his welcome/thank you message differently. In both cases, he says, his goal is to have his first email be the “fulfillment email,” which says, “Here’s the material you requested, but also, here’s who I am and what I can do for you.” Multiple Markets Even though Josh has mastered giving customers what they want when they need it, he is always refining his tactics to better reach potential clients who are on the shorter timeline. Josh mentions Joshua Earl who presents two kinds of markets: “the stocked pond” and “the passing parade.” The stocked pond client checks you out, wants to know what you have to offer, is someone you build a relationship with over time, and eventually they’ll buy. For the passing parade customer, there’s a smaller window of time during which your product is relevant to them. For people starting out, this is exactly why knowing where your clients are coming from and who they are is a big deal. Just as you speak differently with clients who you know have an immediate need vs people who don’t currently have a project for you, so too, you should speak differently depending on a visitor’s urgency. Just knowing how a client enters your funnel can tell you a lot about which market they belong to. For example, Brennan mentions that “Starting A Freelance Business” is a frequently clicked DYF article. Just knowing that is what the customer is interested in, gives Brennan an idea of the customer’s experience level, specific need, and urgency. He also gets clues of their timeline, financial flexibility, and goals. He can tell for example, the reader probably has a day job right now. Josh says the earlier you know that information, the better you’ll be able to service your client’s need. For Josh’s stocked pond customers he steers them towards the coaching side of his funnel. Josh says this isn’t a hard sell, it’s just a matter of letting people know it exists and telling them more about it when they’re ready to hear it. In the past year, Josh has narrowed his focus further to address salary negotiation for software developers who want more job offers and a higher rate. He helps leads see themselves as clients by using pre-scripts, emails, and casual mentions, to say “my coaching clients get results using this technique.” Sometimes his customers come back a year after they first find him and say “hey, I regret not working with you before but I’m switching jobs again and I’d like to work with you now.” These leads require a softer sell because a software developer who has a job offer from Facebook knows Josh’s fee will seem trivial against their potential salary. Josh says keeping himself front and center is essential so he sends weekly emails to his audience. Once or twice a month he’ll focus on topics relevant to coaching and will include a link to the coaching page asking if readers are “expecting a job offer within the next four weeks?” Just by making people aware that he offers coaching, means they sometimes book within an hour of getting a job offer. Clients select themselves and all Josh has to do is follow up. Brennan and Josh agree that this is one of many examples showing that higher price point doesn’t necessarily mean a harder sell. Josh’s customers could buy one of his books for much cheaper and gain all of the knowledge they need, but when he mentions this, clients usually say, “I just want to be told what to do.” Josh’s clients tend to be looking for things that are inclusive, already done for them, and that provide quick answers. Refining the Funnel Fearless Salary Negotiation is doing fine with an evergreen funnel and a lot of happy customers, but Josh is always looking to the future. This year he plans to re-target his funnel to reach higher-value leads with segmentation. He sees other opportunities also. Josh’s automation allows him to follow up with customers who have clicked through but not purchased and he knows there’s potential for him to sell more books and courses with just a few adjustments. He also offers career coaching if clients are having difficulty getting job offers in the first place. While this service isn’t promoted as heavily, Josh looks forward to developing it more in the future. Currently, Josh’s funnel starts with excellent, optimized content that ensures customers have already benefited from him before they even see the sales page. The page is available after an email opt in, and it invites leads to apply to schedule a free 15 min call. Josh’s optimized funnel means sales are easy to make and he has control. Although he can’t demand 10 new clients and have them appear, Josh CAN send out a flash discount to his email list and “make money happen,” to quote Amy Hoy. Josh’s hustle is about convincing people to enter his list rather than convincing people to hire him. He focuses on guest posting, guesting on podcasts etc. and building his audience while his funnel takes care of the rest. Doubling visitors may not automatically double revenue, but it is an essential component. Josh says the question is what to do with the traffic, and how to optimize for client needs. He says it is easy to become obsessed with the stats as you look at value per customer, value per subscriber, and value per coaching client vs. product client. He recommends taking a variety of approaches like looking for interesting ways to get a $5 per visitor value, finding higher-value leads with segmentation, and evaluating the effectiveness of each stage of the funnel. Not wanting to become obsessed is one reason Josh doesn’t look at the numbers until an experiment has run for 30-90 days. He revises by looking at each section of the funnel and working on it for a while. He works his way down, optimizing to the fullest, and then starts at the top to edit again. He sees what modifications work and gets to learn about his audience’s motivations. Josh knows to let the numbers speak. Where there is successful content, there is opportunity for lead generation. From there, it is his job to determine how to strategically offer the content upgrades that become his opt-ins. How Josh communicates with opt-ins is dependent on their specific needs and can be the difference between a conversion and a missed sale. Josh’s constant research allows for excellent optimization and his meticulous process editing has made him a true authority on funnel management. Josh has become a master of his niche, and by following his example, you can master yours. https://fearlesssalarynegotiation.com/ https://doubleyourfreelancing.com/start-a-freelancing-business/ https://joshuaearl.com/ http://www.microconf.com/ Amy Hoy -- https://stackingthebricks.com/be-your-own-angel-how-to-make-money-happen/

Does content marketing have the power to attract “whale leads?” In this episode, Brennan talks with Benji Hyam, founder of Grow and Convert, a content marketing agency based out of San Diego. Grow and Convert was started when founders, Benji Hyam and Devesh Khanal were introduced and immediately launched into a heated discussion about whether content marketing could attract high quality leads. Their debate turned into a partnership and the team set to work proving the untapped value of content marketing through hard work and simple, honest strategies. Key Takeaways: How to build trust through transparency Why credibility matters and how to build it from scratch How to make content marketing measurable How to create actionable case studies How to get guest posts published (script provided) Benji Hyam, co-founder of Grow and Convert believes that content marketing, at its core, is about trust. It starts with understanding what your customers care about and proving to them that you can deliver it. For Grow and Convert, this meant becoming the full-service company that Benji himself had looked for in the past and was unable to find. It took a few iterations for them to get it right, but eventually, Benji and Grow and Convert co-founder, Devesh Khanal, created a successful business that put customers’ interests first and turned the old model of the content marketing business on its head. Before starting Grow and Convert, Benji was running marketing startups in San Francisco. He was getting burned out as he noticed that many content writing and marketing agencies claiming to drive leads, often just created a few social media updates and hoped this would bring the company more followers. Since having more followers doesn’t necessarily mean getting more conversions, Benji recognized that CEOs looking for ways to direct a company’s marketing funds would have no incentive to invest in content marketing -- the lack of measurable ROI was completely unappealing. It was then that Benji ran into Devesh Khanal. By chance, they both arrived an hour early to a dinner put on by fellow growth marketer, Sujen Patel, and they proceeded to argue about whether content marketing could attract high quality leads. Devesh, who has a CRO agency, was trying to attract executives from $10million+ ecommerce companies but wasn’t sure if execs at that level even read content marketing. Benji had just come from a job selling to these high-level figures almost exclusively via content marketing so he knew that they did. They both agreed that the current model was not the way to do it so with Devesh’s highly-developed analytical skills and Benji’s experience growing sites, they decided to team up. They set out to show that content marketing is measurable and that “full service” should go beyond a few tweets to include user research, content writing and promotion, and lead driving. Finding an Audience Grow and Convert started as a blog. They focused on showing what good content writing looks like, providing useful, real-world examples, and demonstrating measurability. In writing about content strategy, the two were proving they were great content writers, while simultaneously filling the void of real-world case studies (as opposed to theoretical platitudes) that users could learn from. Readers learned from every part of the blog. As part of their commitment to transparency and trackable data, on a monthly basis, the small company shared its stats and what they did to promote themselves. Benji says this was essential to building trust with the community. To keep readers engaged, and to give them more of a personal stake in Grow and Convert’s success, the guys publicly announced goals for the blog like the target of hitting 40K monthly readers in 6 months. Readers eagerly followed the progress of this wager. Four months in, and still shy of the 40,000 followers goal, Benji found himself somewhat stranded in Bali with no steady income (having quit his job to focus on the business). At that point, the partners decided to back burner the arbitrary 40K followers target and pivoted towards monetization. Grow and Convert then went through a few transformations, becoming a successful phone course, in-person workshops where Benji would fly out to a business and spend a day working with their staff, and an online course positioned towards businesses rather than individuals. This last model was still not quite what they were looking for since individuals are the ones who look for courses, not companies. However, the guys gained traction by offering a service to businesses and their agency was born. Creating Measureability One way that Grow and Convert worked to build trust and appeal to clients was by showing measurability. They built a calculator for content marketing ROI, showed users how to track leads coming in from content marketing, and used live case studies to show followers how to drive traffic to their site. They would pick a company at random from their email list and create a post for them designed to bring in 1000 new visitors to their site or to actually surpass any of their previous posts in the first month. Grow and Convert showed results through metrics and talked about the unspoken weak points of content marketing, chiefly: deliverables. While other sites sell “4 blog posts a month,” Grow and Convert tracked stats to show that they could provide traffic and leads. Their openness and vigilant tracking created trust and thereby authority with their audience. All of these distinctions and the numbers to back them up, gave Benji and Devesh much more leverage when it came to pricing--a model they shared with readers. From a consumer perspective, Brennan agrees that as he has looked for vendors while working on his latest site, he has opted for agencies with radically transparent operations. Although it can seem like someone is just a shameless self-promoter, showing process can be a selling point. A great example of successful transparency that Brennan points to is John Doherty who he hired to run an SEO audit on DoubleYourFreelancing.com. Even though he had never met or worked with him before, Brennan was convinced to hire Doherty based on John’s openness and frequent updates on his daily process. With blog and social media posts showing an agency’s background, results, and what sets them apart in the industry, they can show credibility that will not come through in a sales letter. Putting in this time is seriously valuable. Grow and Convert doesn’t use any outbound sales tactics to grow their own agency. They do not go through their network looking for referrals or advertising to find leads. Their goal is to gain customers based on great content marketing, following their own advice, and just by showing what they’re good at. Brennan agrees that following one’s own advice is key. Credibility comes from being able to say “here’s an example of how I applied this tactic I swear by.” Examples have gone a long way towards Grow and Convert’s credibility. For Benji, case studies involve much more process and detail than just presenting a problem, solution, and result. He believes in doing the research to understand the pain points a company is facing. He says only his personal experience, building a content marketing company from the ground up, allowed him to fully understand the challenges others would face in the same position. They’d need to know about: hiring writers, hiring an editor, promoting content, attracting the right visitors to your blog, scaling, and search engine optimization. Understanding all of the different hiccups that pop up in the business allows an agency to tailor case studies and content directly to the real problems people are having (instead of writing what they think customers want to know). When people sign up for their newsletter, Grow and Convert asks clients, “Tell us a little about yourself, who are you and what are your main challenges right now?” with over 500,000 responses, they’ve been able to build a much fuller picture of what customers are actually looking for. The guys look for commonalities and trends and then tailor the blog posts to customer pain points. From there, if Benji notices lots of people saying “I publish a lot of content but have very few visitors,” then he can highlight 3 articles that get a lot of traffic and build the case study around what is working for them. Showing that they have addressed these challenges before, builds customer confidence in them. It is also less superficial than the stories one finds in a Linkedin article. These case studies offer screenshots and examples showing outcomes which will be much more helpful to someone struggling with these specific problems --again building trust. Data, graphs, detailed copy about what was tried and what worked vs what didn’t are the things that Brennan says makes Growthlab a trusted resource for him. He says his most effective articles follow the Growthlab formula. Brennan says he doesn’t offer a prescription, just details and experiences his audience can relate to. Turns out, being useful and honest is a great way to stand out from the crowd. Giving Them What They Want When starting from zero with no customer base, or email list, Benji suggests creating a specific hypothetical customer in your target demographic. Once you know what that person’s interests and day consists of, that informs the research you do on where to find them. Though you’ll have to reach out to them cold, you don’t have to (and shouldn’t) mass email/spam them. Instead, find them on Linkedin or elsewhere and try to get on a 15 minute call with them. He points out that ego-stroking is generally a good bet: “Hey I’m reaching out to you today because you are vice president of marketing and I hear you are doing great at…” He recommends reading a blog post by the customer, finding a video or quote of theirs that actually resonates with you, and mentioning it to show the lead that you have done your research. From there, Benji suggests you offer them a favor and then ask them to get on that quick call so that you can better understand their business. Brennan suggests that content itself can be a gateway to the clients you want. He recommends writing a blog post or interview series that features the person you want to get into a conversation with. This allows you to demonstrate that you can think critically about their business and it starts the conversation. Grow and Convert has a few ways of getting into the headspace of their clients. They’ve used surveys that include questions like: What’s your biggest challenge right now? Who are you? What other marketing influencers do you trust? Where do you go to meet other marketers? Etc. but they take care to keep answers open-ended. Getting the language, real responses and insights into how the questions are perceived can all result in useful information. From the responses, Benji and Devesh have learned not only where a lot of their audience is probably struggling, but also what kinds of content and guest posts are going to be best-received and where to start looking for new readers. Thanks to Grow and Convert’s reputation, Benji no longer has to look for leads. He says, on the consulting side, the ticket to conversion is getting customers to his services page where pricing is listed pretty early on. This avoids confusion and wasted time, and goes with the “share everything!” philosophy that is useful to the customers on the blog side of the business. Benji has found that clients on both sides of the business find their openness refreshing. At Grow and Convert, they avoid calls to action and telling readers what to do. Instead they say “This is what worked for me and here’s why.” That way, they’re aiming for the people who can afford the premium and want to hear the details (how Grow and Convert helps businesses, what it will cost etc.) and the DIYers who will never be on the consulting side of the business. These clients are different and are not a threat to each other. Benji says they attract the people who don’t have the time to learn it by showing that they know their field inside out. Meanwhile, the customers who don’t have the money for consulting, but may have the time to learn it on their own get to see the real-world ins and outs. Brennan points out that calls to action target the DIYers who tend to want an answer right now. However, the best consulting leads may be more open/flexible with their money while not having the personal time to invest in solving their problems. Building Relationships Brennan points out that there are other ways to get your agency’s reputation to new audiences. He gives the example of a lawyer he once heard speak about copyright law at a local conference. After seeing her presentation on everything there is to know about online copyrights, he has never hired her, but he has recommended her many times. Double Your Freelancing has hosted several business seminars based on the “forum of ideas” concept (as opposed to trying to shove customers into a sales funnel). Attendees and viewers don’t need to hire Brennan’s agency but he points out they unintentionally become “sleeper cell agents,” who simultaneously gain the knowledge they need and familiarity with Brennan’s authority. Again, the transparency of presentations, support groups and Q&A that tell attendees when to buy, when to build, when to find something off the shelf, builds that audience trust. Benji agrees and thinks having ulterior motives is a mistake lots of businesses make. Customers don’t want spam and may rethink their entire need if it looks like they’re in for the hard sell. If your audience believes you are trustworthy and credible, they will recommend you and eventually get on your list. Valuable content should be your focus, not the number of email subscribers. “If people care about what you have to say and feel that you’re adding value, they’ll naturally want to form some sort of relationship with you.” Guest posts are another way to build your authority and build trust, but Benji says he has published 4 out of hundreds of requests to post in the last two years. He says that when people send guest post requests they often optimize for volume rather than quality, using automation software and just plugging in a site’s or editor’s name. From an editor’s perspective, this does not inspire confidence or interest. For Benji, the requests to post that stand out have clearly done their research and look more like this: “Hey, I saw this article and loved [this one specific point you guys made]. I’ve been following you guys for a while and I’d like to write a guest post. Here is my [ONE] idea. Here are my results. I would love to share this story.” Proper research means knowing what the publication wants from their guest posts. Benji says to ask things like: Who is their audience? What kind of content do they post, Do they like long in-depth how-tos or something shorter? Then include the screenshots or evidence that shows you have a story they want to publish. Benji warns that this is not the time to take shortcuts. He says to build relationships rather than optimizing your time. Not only will that help you get accepted to begin with, it also means you could be invited back if you do exactly what the site wants. Brennan points out that likewise, co-promotion is based on relationships rather than some kind of unspoken understanding among online marketers as some people seem to think. He often gets requests from strangers in his network asking him to tell his audience about their new product. Without the trust of a deeper relationship (e.g. having met and chatted at a conference or worked together on a mutually beneficial project), he’s not inclined to risk his reputation or breach the trust he has with HIS audience. Benji agrees that building meaningful business relationships is as simple as asking “what’s in it for the other person?” He finds the best way to get a response is to do research, think about what’s in it for them, and make a pitch that benefits both parties. Similarly, when posting new content, Brennan asks himself “How do I make it clear that in taking the time to read this article (or whatever else) I link to, [the reader is] going to be better off than they were before this?” Thinking about the other party, valuing their time, and considering how many times you say “I,” “me,” “my” may prompt you to change the behavior and present more appealing content. Benji concludes, marketing is simply “thinking about what people want and giving it to them.” Based on this philosophy, he and Growth Lab started out with a course and ended up making a successful marketing agency. They researched where their target audience was, found out what information they were looking for, collected it, and then gave it to them. Benji and Devesh built the influence they needed to get on the radar of the high-value customers they want and developed the measurability needed to close the deal. GrowAndConvert.com Benji's Growthlab article John Doherty SEO Consulting https://growandconvert.com/content-marketing/customer-acquisition-cost/ Twitter: benjihyam@benjihyam LinkedIn: benjihyam@benjihyam

Will guest appearances on podcasts benefit your consulting business? Is it worth it to start your own podcast even if your audience is limited? Matt Inglot thinks it is! In this episode of DYF Podcast, Brennan talks to 2016 DYFConf speaker, Matt Inglot, about using podcasting to get consulting clients and expand your audience. When Matt started his podcast, Freelance Transformation, he didn’t expect it to have any effect on his web-development agency. More than 145 episodes later, he has found that the impacts have been manifold. Not only has his podcast become one of the most prominent in the freelancing community, but it also helped him develop his contacts and directly led to a $60,000 gig. Other benefits have been less obvious but just as empowering, and Matt has learned all of the right and wrong ways to podcast along the way. Key Takeaways: How to determine if podcasting is right for you How to book your first few guests How to build your listenership How to use podcasts to build your authority What tools and setup do you need to get started For the past 12 years Matt has run his agency, Tilted Pixel, with great success. He says that as a micro-agency he has been able to create a stable business and the life he was looking for without the 80 hour work-week one might typically expect. His newer venture is Freelance Transformation, his podcast, which launched in April 2015. Matt says Freelance Transformation initially had nothing to do with his consulting business --if it had, he pointed out, he would have built the podcast around the interests of potential clients. Instead, Freelance Transformation sprang out of Matt’s desire to spread the knowledge he’d acquired through his years of experience. He was also keen to get in and start a new online business after consulting on so many through the years. To his surprise, even though they weren’t directly related, Matt’s podcast brought a boost in his agency’s sales --including a $60,000 deal that came as a result of one recording. Freelance Transformation’s success (it hit 100,000 downloads within the first year and has now nearly tripled that) has allowed Matt to grow his existing agency while also seeing where the new venture takes him --and the first place it took him was MicroConf. Podcasting to Meet People The first lesson Matt says he learned while building Freelance Transformation is that, “podcasting is a great networking hack.” As he began looking for guests, Matt attended Microconf and found that right from the beginning, being able to say “Hi I’m Matt, I’m the host of Freelance Transformation,” is more of a conversation starter than “Hi, I’m Matt, I do web-design.” That year, Matt took his portable mic around the conference, recording some of his earliest stuff (including an episode with Brennan) and growing his experience --learning among other things, that recording in a noisy Vegas hotel during a conference is not ideal. Matt says that from that conference alone, he was able to develop a reputation among freelancers and find guests for his first 20 or so episodes. If you are considering podcasting, Matt recommends making these in-person connections and using events to start meaningful dialogues with potential guests. Matt found that having guest spots to offer on his podcast, opens doors to people who might have seemed off limits before. For Matt this included Brennan, Michael Port, Alan Weiss, Charlie Hoehn, and outside the consulting world, luxury concierge, Steve Sims. The podcast allowed him to have in-depth conversations with these giants and to stay in touch with them afterwards. As the rapport built, Matt’s guests started making suggestions and introductions of people who could either help Matt or be helped by him. Matt’s contact list snowballed, he says, and “next thing you know this inaccessible community is now accessible.” Do You Need An Audience? With these benefits alone, and even without an established audience, starting a podcast already has some advantages. Matt estimates that Freelance Transformation has added 10,000-15,000 new visitors to his site each month, but he has noticed that his increased business isn’t necessarily from people listening to his podcast. Rather, he believes most of these referrals to his site have come from the other professionals he has meet through hosting the podcast. So do listeners even matter? Of course they do. For Matt, a key motivator was being able to pass on wisdom and help develop the next generation of freelancers. But another clear advantage to having a large audience is that the further your reach, the more pull you’ll have for getting the guests you want on your show. Having a network, Brennan points out, also makes launching a new product easier. He says launching his newest product, RightMessage , was much simpler with an established audience and an unobtrusive way to get updates to his followers. His audience is often interested in seeing behind the scenes as his products develop so Brennan keeps them informed of every step along the way. Since Brennan is committed to providing useful examples of how to build and launch products, this audience relationship represents another win-win scenario that can come from podcasting. So how do you build your listenership? If you’re like Matt, and you’re not a born social media self-promoter, he recommends the following 3 step approach when launching a new podcast: Reach out to everyone you know and ask them to check out your new podcast and leave a review. While you probably won’t get long-term listeners from this exercise, the initial flood of downloads tells iTunes to pay attention. Chose guests strategically. Matt looked for guests who were consulting-oriented, and who had a great audience that he could borrow. When the guest sends out his/her social media blast you could be getting an extra hundred or thousand new eyes looking your way. Use events to build relationships with potential guests in your field. Conferences are expensive, including tickets, travel, accommodations and time away from normal operations. Finding new listeners with fliers and quick blurbs costs a lot in effort with minimal results. Instead, your mission should be to invest in face to face personal interactions at common-goal events. This can lead to guests who care about the success of the program --it can be the difference between a guest tweeting that they were on and them actually promoting you. Some of Matt’s Microconf contacts were even willing to give him their email lists! Positioning Podcasting is also a great way to position yourself in the freelance world. Brennan uses his guests’ networks to expand his own sphere of influence. He does some digging to learn who in his guest’s network he’d like to work with and seeks introductions via the mutual connection. For example, he might look at Matt’s previous Freelance Transformation guests, see who else has a podcast, select a couple, and if appropriate, he’ll message them saying, “Hey, I talked to our mutual friend, Matt Inglot, earlier this year. He suggested that I might be a good fit for your podcast.” Frequent wide-spread appearances on podcasts can build your credibility as an expert within your field. Brennan highlights wearables developer and former DYF Academy student, Justin Bergen, as the master here. While developing products, Justin hosted industry leaders on his podcast, giving them a spotlight and simultaneously shoring up a his new relationship with the guest. By asking the guests “do you know of anyone else in the industry who would be a good guest for my podcast?” he also expanded his contacts. Since the wearables niche is fairly small, he was able to make key introductions and establish himself as an expert in the wearables niche. This brings Matt to the point that Podcasting is also a comparatively simple way to publish within your field. “Rather than researching, writing, editing, rewriting, publishing and distributing a guest post or a whole book,” he says, “you can cut to the chase with twelve bullet points and a good microphone.” Matt points out that even after writing, editing and revising a book or even a much shorter guest post, you still have to find a way to publish/distribute it, but appearing on podcasts, is a lower-key ways of establishing your authority. After guesting on other podcasts enough times, you will start to notice that you have built your own audience. Telling Your Story A simple, subtle benefit to being a frequent podcast guest, is discovering the best way to articulate your message. Telling your story becomes easier each time you tell it: you’ll find your glossary becomes refined, your clarity improves, and your confidence builds. Matt mentions Jeremy Weiss from Mixergy who says of his podcast that even if no one were listening, the exercise would still be worth doing, and he would continue to run it. Of course this ties in to what we’ve said before since having your own podcast is a great gateway to appearing on other people’s. If you have your own podcast, other hosts know that you know what you’re doing, have the right equipment, and will deliver the audio they’re looking for. Your Guests are Your Research and Case Studies One easily overlooked benefit to hosting a podcast is the research value of discussing best practices with others in your field. Freelance Start, Matt’s course on freelancing was borne out of the 145+ episodes of the podcast. These serve as ”almost scientific data set” that he can referenced and have more information than if he were only citing his own experiences. One example of a discovery Matt made through his conversations, is that when he talked to people who were struggling to find clients, there was a correlation with how much time they spent on marketing. That is, Matt now has the numbers showing that the more effort one spends on marketing, the more clients their business will likely have. Similarly, Brennan’s aim in starting his new Right Message podcast was to talk with people who have DIYed or used other non Right Message tools to achieve personalized marketing. Hearing why they got into it and what they did wrong, Brennan expects to gain market research. Is podcasting right for you? Before starting out with your new podcast, Matt wants you to ask yourself what you hope to achieve. Having a podcast won’t get you new clients overnight and Matt warns that there are easier ways to create content if that is your only goal. So he urges you to have a strategy and a reason to do it. Things he suggests you think about when considering starting a podcast: Are there specific people you want to connect with? Are you focused on relationship building, and if so, with whom? Are you articulating ideas/thoughts clearly? (If yes, this helps you get on other people’s podcasts and to be great at it). What are some of the cons to consider? It is time consuming. Matt says when he started Freelancer Transformation, each episode took 10 hours to make from researching guests to editing and publishing. Now he has standard processes, he hires a company to produce the show, and he has a nice network through which he can easily find guests. None of that was established in the beginning so starting out, you need to recognize that it will take time. Another con is that it is not the greatest way to generate fast traffic to your site. If you are looking to generate a lot of traffic to your site quickly, you should focus on guesting (writing guest posts and appearing on other peoples’ podcast) to build that audience faster. Having your own podcast connects you with the specific people you want to connect with fast, but doesn’t help you reach the masses as much as one might think. Quick tips If you’ve read all of this and are ready to get your podcast underway, Matt has a few suggestions for you to check out. He recommends Pat Flynn’s free podcasting guide, and Jon Lee Dumas’ Podcaster's Paradise. Philip Morgan has a free article on all of the podcasting equipment he uses. Matt says to stay on the beaten path when starting your podcast and not to get too fancy or overthink things. For a microphone he suggests: ATR 2100 or the Yeti --they’re professional sounding, under $100 and you don’t have to dwell on the question longer than necessary. Matt says that if he were starting over, he would choose a simpler format since currently his shows involve pre intro, intro music, an introduction, the interview, outro, and outro music. If he were to redesign the whole thing, he says he would do everything live. He’d bring the guest on, introduce them, play the intro music and get down to it. By doing everything live, he would have saved hours of editing. Though it is tempting to want to innovate, he says to get the basics down and don’t overcomplicate things. Listeners are there for the expert content and don’t care about a spiffy sounding intro by a third party. One area where Matt says he made the right call was by not posting video as part of his podcast. He refrained from this primarily because video complicated things, but it is a waste of resources for ROI. If you are considering hosting video also, bear in mind that Matt says it won’t do great on youtube by itself. Clips, however, can be used on social media and to spark interest in your regular programing. In the end, hosting a podcast will not bring a flood of sales and traffic to your site. However, it can be a great gateway to the people in your field who seem off limits. It can help you refine your message and reinforce your authority. It can even give you the data you need in order to improve your products and services. Take it from expert, Matt, podcasting is an exercise worth engaging in, as long as you pay attention to the “whys” and set yourself up for success. For further reading, check out the links below: http://www.microconf.com/ https://freelancetransformation.com/ https://rightmessage.com/ Pat Flynn's Podcasting Tutorial Podcaster's Paradise Philip Morgan on Podcasting Justin Bergen Wearables

Where has Brennan been all this time (it's been 6 months!)? And what's next for the Double Your Freelancing podcast?

My guest today is Kelsey Kreiling, co-founder of Presence Agency and creator of Week of the Website, a productized website design business. Kelsey is a designer and website builder who has grown multiple businesses from the ground up. Her newest business, Week of the Website, builds amazing websites for their customers in only five days. On today’s episode we discuss her experience transitioning from client work to a productized service business model. Today’s topics include: Getting started in productized services, Focusing clients for success with clear communication, Using set processes to streamline service products, Building referral channels and recurring revenue, Opportunities for productized services in your own business Resources and links: Double Your Freelancing Academy Week of the Website Week of the Website - Website planning tool Presence Agency Kelsey Kreiling - Website Kelsey Kreiling - LinkedIn Kelsey Kreiling - Twitter FreshBooks Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends

Today I’m talking with Joanna Wiebe, the founder of CopyHackers.com. CopyHackers is an online resource for everything you need to know about copywriting, including many informative case studies. Her new project, Airstory, is a fantastic content production tool for high-performance writing teams. Joanna taught me how to write effective sales copy and on today’s episode we discuss her Rule of One: how you can make sure that when you do write, your writing is focused on talking to one customer archetype. Today’s topics include: The Rule of One: 4-part definition and implementation, Niched marketing and personalized customer experience, Creating a reader archetype, Stages of customer awareness: problem, solution and product, Big ideas and your promise to the customer, Analyzing your offer to find missing details, Questioning common “best practices” Resources and links: Double Your Freelancing Academy Drip Email Marketing Automation - Double Your Freelancing Course CopyHackers.com Airstory Joanna Wiebe - Google+ Joanna Wiebe - Twitter Joanna Wiebe - LinkedIn FreshBooks Like the Podcast? Help us! If you enjoy the Double Your Freelancing podcast, support us to keep it going! Subscribe on iTunes Leave us a 5-star review on iTunes Share the podcast with your friends