Songwriters on Process

For the uninitiated: Debbie Gibson is still the youngest female to write, produce, and perform a #1 single, with "Foolish Beat" at age 17. I think I was just learning how to make toast at that age. She wrote all the songs on her debut album Out of the Blue—at age 16. The album had four singles in the US top five and sold more than five million albums. Gibson's second album Electric Youth was the #1 album in the US for five weeks. It contains three singles in the top 20, including the #1 song "Lost in Your Eyes." With that song, Gibson came home from school, started playing the piano, and the song just poured out in real time. "I wrote it in ten minutes and never changed a note," she told me. "I have no idea where it came from."

Some artists create because they like the process and the product. They like what they do and they’re good at it, whether they’re amateurs or professionals.But other artists create because they need to create. They have to write songs. It’s a self-actualizing and at times even a survival instinct, a primal drive. Because of this, external forces like love or relationships or world upheaval aren’t always drivers. These artists create because they must create. And at times, it may not even be enjoyable. This is what I thought about after my interview with Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson. It struck me in the metaphors they use to describe lyric writing: words like “shitting” and “puking,” images of violent expulsion that can also bring a tremendous sense of relief—and that are intertwined with instinct and drive. But there’s also genuine anxiety, and at times fear, attached to the songwriting process for both artists.

No matter if she's writing great music or great books, Michelle Zauner goes by one credo: first thought, best thought. It's always garbage before the good stuff. "Raw source material is supposed to be crap,” Zauner says. “You have to allow yourself to be terrible," she told me. Zauner is the singer, songwriter, and founder of the band Japanese Breakfast. But she's also the author of the bestselling memoir Crying in H Mart, which ended up on many 2021 year-end "best of" lists and is also being made into a movie. 

Spoon's Britt Daniel finds that success as a songwriter comes when he's not trying to write songs. The less organization, the better. "When I try to write with intention, I come up empty," Daniel says. But if I'm not trying to do anything, I've been more successful. Trying to be organized can be a dead end." He told me that he likes to start writing without any direction. And Daniel often finds crowded bars and restaurants to be inspiring. Not only does he like the energy of the crowds, but he also uses what he hears and sees as source material. So if you happen to spot Daniel in a bar and he's scribbling away in a notebook, the man may be writing the next Spoon record!

Lauren Mayberry of Chvrches has an impressively organized songwriting process that involves spreadsheets, Pinterest boards, and a jar full of paper. For Mayberry, that organization involves writing every day. She has the jar to show for it, a jar full of cut out words and phrases that she collects for inspiration or future lyrical Ideas. She also keeps notebooks. "Writing is very therapeutic for me," Mayberry told me. Mayberry has a keen and precise take on her creative process. She doesn't write much on tour. "Sad, soft, worried me doesn't go on tour, but she's the one who writes better," Mayberry says. When she does write, it often helps to be doing something else, like riding public transportation, driving, and chopping vegetables. Yes, chopping vegetables. "It helps when the conscious brain and subconscious brain are doing different things. The hubbub is meditative," explains Mayberry. "The conscious mind checks out so that the subconscious can do the work."Mayberry's creative process is impressively organized. It involves spreadsheets organized by tabs with themes like horror, anger, and sadness. She's a big fan of Post-It Notes, and she loves hotel pens. Pinterest mood boards filled with images help her when she's stuck. 

For Mia Berrin of Pom Pom Squad, how a song looks is as important as how it sounds. And her latest album Death of a Cheerleader  looks and sounds red. Pom Pom Squad’s video for  “Head Cheerleader” is fantastic. (The song itself is amazing and one of my favorites of 2021.) It’s rife with colors, images, and symbols. But what Berrin did with the video is not surprising if you know her background: she first moved to New York to study acting at NYU. And while the video is awash in vivid colors, red stands out. That color played a big part of the songwriting process for Death of a Cheerleader. In fact, she surrounded herself with it during recording, “Lots of red velvet and red vinyl. I had red curtains and wore red gloves,” Berrin says. It was important for her to carve out a physical space during writing that “looked like the internal space of the record. And red is what I wanted the world of the record to look like.”Berrin cites John Waters and David Lynch as influences in the making of her videos, which she says are heavily stylized representations of the world.

For Yola, songwriting is all about the colliculus. And sometimes a good vacuum.There’s a common motion many songwriters make when telling me where their songs come from: they start grasping in the air, mere conduits pulling songs out of the ether. But if you ask Yola, she’d probably tap her head. “I have an obsessive neurological approach to songwriting,” she told me. The most important part of Yola’s process is her colliculus, a midbrain region. And that’s why this interview was part songwriting, part science lesson. “I farm out my work to my colliculi. It’s the part of the brain that takes things in from the periphery, like that billboard that you barely notice as you zoom by,” she said. Yola doesn’t want her songwriting process to be too analytical. “If I muscle something with my conscious mind, I might fabricate something based on issues I’m dealing with at the times," she told me. It’s why so many song ideas come to her when she’s doing something mundane like driving or vacuuming: she’s not thinking about songwriting. “It’s a state of being unconscious but extremely aware,” she said. Yola has been nominated for two GRAMMYs this year: one for Best Americana album (Stand for Myself) and the other for Best American Roots Song (“Diamond Studded Shoes.”)

Artists are always searching for the ideal creative state, that perfect time when the songs effortlessly flow. With both Anaïs Mitchell and Charlotte Cornfield, that involves, well, not really being aware of when they’re in that ideal state. For Mitchell, it involves accessing the subconscious in dreams. If she’s lucky, a fellow songwriter might appear in those dreams to give her counsel, like David Rawlings once did. And for Cornfield, that brief moment right before sleep, when she’s just about to doze off, is an especially fertile time. Mitchell and Cornfield love a good deadline. Their songwriting processes involve structure and discipline, not just sleeping and dreaming. “I'm a big fan of having a routine and showing up for it, even if nothing happens,” Mitchell told me. And they also find artistic inspiration in blank email messages (Mitchell), skateboards (Cornfield), door panels (Mitchell), and black ink (both). In fact, Mitchell is so versed in door panels that she actually told Cornfield and me what kind of door panels we have after noticing them in our interview.In case you were wondering how I picked Mitchell and Cornfield as an interview pair, here’s my highly scientific process. I follow two artists on Twitter, then from that  I see if they follow each other. If they do, then it’s match. Turns out that Mitchell and Cornfield have known each other for over ten years, so their familiarity made this a very fun conversation. Enjoy!

“As a songwriter, my job is to figure out how to draw some optimism out of any situation.”Five-time GRAMMY winner Keb’ Mo’ draws that optimism from the “big bubbling river” of creativity.  We can all use a little Keb’ Mo’ in our lives. As the world burns, Kevin Moore (aka Keb’ Mo’) sees cause for optimism everywhere—even in his own home, where he gets joy from mundane household chores that I certainly detest. While I may recoil at the sight of a big pile of laundry, Moore loves it: he finds comfort in folding clothes and even ironing! It’s not a direct part of his songwriting process. Instead, the meditative nature of the act calms him and prepares him to sit down and write.And when Moore starts to write, he’s pretty confident that the songs will come. “Creativity is like a big, bubbling river. It’s there. You just have to plug into it,” he told me. “I feel like I’m swimming in a pool of creativity.” Would that we were all this optimistic!Moore’s ideal time to write is between noon and 6pm, after he’s been to the gym. He likes to write lyrics with a pencil and notepad (a legal pad if possible; he hates paper with rings on the side). He sits on the couch with his guitar, turns on Netflix, and plays around until he hears something he likes.The latest album by Keb’ Mo’ is Good to Be.

Allison Russell & Aoife O'Donovan talk about the songwriting process as full-time moms. Hint: there's not a process.“We’re working moms, so the best undisturbed time is between midnight and 4am.”—Allison Russell“I’m not the ‘lounge around’ type of person. There’s not one wasted hour in my day.” —Aoife O’DonovanRussell and O’Donovan are full-time songwriters of course, but they’re moms first. So what you won’t hear in our conversation is how wonderful it is to wake up, have a leisurely cup of coffee, lounge on the couch with a guitar, and write undisturbed. Songwriting ritual? What’s that?What you will hear is the phrase “we’re working moms” several times from both of them. You’ll hear how Russell writes between midnight and 4am because it’s often the only alone time she has. You’ll hear how she develops melodies and plays beats on her body while she’s in the shower—and how the shower was where she went to cry when she was a new mother. You’ll hear how O’Donovan gets so many of her song ideas while she’s running; sure, exercise spurs creativity, but it’s also alone time. You’ll hear how the practicalities of being a parent and full-time songwriter involve driving kids places and being without childcare and trying to help with schoolwork—all while trying to write an album. And you’ll hear how during the early stages of the pandemic they were managing school lessons over Zoom, and how in the heck can you write songs when your kids are home and your time is someone else’s? It’s no wonder O’Donovan told me there are no wasted hours in her day and that she writes best while her body is in motion. Because when you’re a working mom, when is it not in motion? Despite their limited time, both women have put out fantastic music recently. Russell’s first solo album Outside Child has been nominated for a GRAMMY for Best Americana Album, and the single “Nightflyer” has been nominated for two GRAMMYs in Best Americana Roots Performance & Best Americana Roots Song. O’Donovan has a fantastic new album Age of Apathy. The song “Prodigal Daughter” features Allison Russell.