How I Learned to Love Shrimp

Vicky Bond has done lots of impressive stuff in her career – she started working as a vet and later ended up running a 100+ person organisation, The Humane League (THL), which many of you might be familiar with as one of the key organisations campaigning to get chickens out of cages. She is now the CEO of Madre Brava, an international climate campaigning group focused on food. Given Vicky’s extensive leadership and management experience, managing teams ranging from 5 to over 110, I wanted to pick her brains about leadership and management in the animal advocacy movement. I would highly recommend it for people who are leading teams of any size or want to learn more about how to do it well!Podcast news:We now have a Substack where we’ll soon be sharing summaries and key takeaways from all episodes! We’ll also be doing polls where you can vote on the next guests. Sign up here.After our last episode with Sjir from Giving What We Can, we’ve had some people take a pledge to donate between 5-10% of their income to effective charities – this is incredible! But I said I would give up to £1000, and most of this is still up for grabs. So if you’re considering pledging, now is a great time as I’ll be donating £50 to Giving What We Can’s effective animal advocacy fund for each person who takes the trial pledge of 1% or full 10% pledge, up to a total of £1000. So, if you sign up via the links below, there is a special tracker that will let me know how many people take it, and I’ll donate accordingly. The 🔹Trial PledgeThe 🔸10% PledgeChapters:00:00:00 - Cold Intro00:09:38 - Challenges and lessons in being a first-time CEO 00:20:40 - Vicky's experience running 100+ person THL00:26:45 - Challenges in running large organisations 00:39:02 - Misconceptions around running large teams 00:42:55 - Advice for running 20+ person orgs 00:46:41 - The downsides of scale 00:56:04 - What makes a good leader 01:02:05 - Overcoming self-limiting beliefs and imposter syndrome01:05:55 - Madre Brava's strategy on protein split ratiosResources:Entangled life: How fungi make our world Mayim Bialik’s Breakdown podcastRich Roll podcastMadrebrava.org and LinkedInThe secret thoughts of successful women With thanks to Tom Felbar (Ambedo Media) for amazing video and audio editing! If you enjoy the show, please leave a rating and review us - it means a lot to us!

Sjir Hoeijmakers, CEO of Giving What We Can, passionately discusses the importance of donating and the 10% pledge, a commitment that can make a huge difference for animals. He shares insights on the impact of pledgers, revealing that 10,000 of them can collectively give $50M a year. Sjir also emphasizes why effective giving matters, how personal networks can amplify pledging, and the role of evaluation in optimizing donations. He encourages listeners to consider taking a trial pledge as a stepping stone to impactful giving.

David Cole, a constitutional law professor and former ACLU legal director, shares invaluable insights on social change. He discusses how incrementalism played a crucial role in the marriage equality movement, contrasting it with the NRA's strategic political power. Cole emphasizes the significance of local organizing and in-person community in movements, exploring how identity formation aids in recruitment and mobilization. He also addresses the balance between symbolic campaigns and impactful policies, offering lessons applicable to various social movements.

Penny Tehilah, Executive Director of Animal Activism Collective, shares her journey in uniting various animal rights groups through grassroots pressure campaigns. She discusses the importance of in-person convergences for building community and skills. The conversation highlights the innovative Rage Tour and how it engages locals to become committed activists. Penny explains how collaborative efforts have led to significant wins, including those for shrimp welfare, and why embracing both abolitionist and welfarist approaches can lead to impactful change.

Lewis Bollard, who leads the farm animal welfare program at Open Philanthropy, shares insights on transforming animal advocacy. He discusses the moral complexities and biases within the movement, suggesting innovative technologies like OvoSexing to improve welfare standards. Lewis highlights the pitfalls of blocking factory farms and emphasizes strategic investments in advocacy. He also explores the potential role of transformative AI and the need for a nuanced approach to engage various communities. This enlightening conversation offers a fresh perspective on advancing animal welfare.

Cass Sunstein, a Harvard Law professor and former Obama official, delves into the complexities of animal welfare views and societal contradictions. He discusses the challenge of self-silencing, where personal ethics clash with social norms. Sunstein emphasizes the importance of reimagining animal welfare as more than just preventing suffering, advocating for fulfilling lives for animals. Through effective communication and policy integration, he shares strategies for normalizing conversations about animal rights, despite societal pushback.

Thom Norman, co-founder of FarmKind and former nuclear energy lawyer, discusses the effectiveness of asking for donations over promoting dietary changes in animal advocacy. He explores the complexities surrounding public perceptions of food choices and the challenges of behavior change. Thom shares insights on innovative fundraising strategies that have successfully raised over $100,000, and the impact of AI on animal welfare in farming. He encourages broader engagement in animal advocacy through philanthropy and creative approaches to connect with supporters.

Alice Di Concetto, Executive Director and Chief Legal Advisor at the European Institute for Animal Law & Policy, discusses the stalled EU animal welfare reforms and the challenges of advocacy. She highlights the clash between domestic and import standards and the impact of trade policies. Alice delves into the push for cage-free laws and the complexities of mobilizing public support. She also explores the intersection of animal rights and environmentalism, urging for a more coordinated approach to advocacy while reminiscing about recent reforms in various EU countries.

In a thought-provoking discussion, James O'Brien, Director of Philanthropy at Mobius and former member of Extinction Rebellion, shares his transformative journey through activism. He reflects on the psychological toll of disruptive protests and the evolution of his strategies for fostering change. The conversation dives into the complexities of prioritizing animal welfare versus climate issues and critiques the polarization within social movements. O'Brien emphasizes the ethical implications of disruptive activism and the necessity for collaboration to achieve real progress.

In this engaging discussion, Katie Cantrell, Co-founder and CEO of Greener by Default, shares her innovative strategies for promoting plant-based eating. She reveals how changing default menu options in hospitals has significantly shifted dietary behaviors without overwhelming consumers. Cantrell emphasizes the importance of choice architecture and effective communication in animal advocacy. Expect insights on adapting traditional meals to enhance appeal and the power of nudging in making plant-based choices more accessible and appealing, all while addressing the complexities of consumer habits.