TalkingPFAS

    Welcome back to Talking PFAS podcast and if you are joining me for the first time a very big welcome to you.  I am a journalist and your host Kayleen Bell. Last episode I brought you a discussion with Boston Attorney John Gardella from CMBG3 Law.  This was a very informative chat about some PFAS developments in the US, and changes to the US EPA under Trump administration.   Here is a little of what John had to say from Episode 48 where he is talking a change to the environmental justice law in the US. “Under the Biden Administration there was a large initiative for something we call environmental justice, which is essentially that when enacting environmental laws or pursuing sites to clean up that consideration should be made to historically poorer communities and socioeconomic backgrounds, communities where there has been historically a lot of concentration pollution because they have been in an industrial area for example.  And the environmental justice program in the US has been eliminated under the EPA, under the new Trump Administration.” There is a lot of key information in that discussion with John Gardella and I encourage you to take a listen.  I included that little portion from the last episode because in today’s discussion my guest and I will be talking about costs of cleaning up PFAS, and the need to reduce PFAS production.  My guest today is Alison Ling.  She is an Assistant Professor in Civil Engineering and works in the Department of Civil Engineering, at the University of St. Thomas, at St Paul in Minnesota.  Today we will be discussing a couple of her papers.  Here is a little preview from our discussion: “When I first ran those calculations it comes out as millions of dollars per kg of PFAS that you remove from the environment and that is millions of dollars whether it is from wastewater effluent, drinking water, wastewater biosolids, soils.  It is almost across the board millions of dollars per kilogram and I was just blown away by those numbers.  That was way more than I was expecting.  But the thought exercise I went through for this paper is if we keep making and emitting PFAS at the rate that we are emitting them right now, which is on the order of millions of tonnes per year, how much would it cost to remove them at the same rate? And so, if you have millions of tonnes of PFAS per year and it costs millions of dollars per kilogram of PFAS to remove it, if you multiply those numbers you get a number that is similar to or greater than the global GDP.”  This is estimated to be around $106 trillion dollars. I hope you enjoyed today’s discussion, I certainly did.  If you have found value in the Talking PFAS podcast I would be really grateful if you would review and share the podcast so others can find it.  Also please subscribe so you don’t miss an episode.  I will be back with one more feature episode before the end of the year.  I will also be brining you a new product Talking PFAS News which will be a shorter episode 10-15 minutes about PFAS news in Australia and globally.  I am now accepting expressions of interest from sponsors for the Talking PFAS feature and news episodes.  This is open to remediation companies that are cleaning up PFAS and companies that have removed PFAS chemicals from their manufacturing processes and would like the public to know. Please note terms and conditions apply to all sponsorships and I will maintain full editorial control over the content of the episodes.   Thank you to Pete Murphy and EPOC Enviro in Australia for being the first Talking PFAS podcast sponsor.  You can email me at TalkingPFAS@gmail.com with PFAS information or sponsorship enquiries. Thank you again for listening see you next time. LINKS mentioned in today’s episode. “Estimated Scale of Costs to Remove PFAS from the Environment at current emission rates.”   Main webpage not open access/publicly available:  https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969724007861.  The full "pre-print" which has the same content is available through the SSRN here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4718530 “Is Removal and destruction of perfluoroalkyl and polyfluoroalkyl substances from wastewater effluent affordable.” This one is open access, available here:  https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/wer.10975 https://www.lemonde.fr/en/les-decodeurs/article/2025/01/14/pfas-the-astronomical-cost-of-depolluting-europe_6737022_8.html https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jan/14/cost-clean-up-toxic-pfas-pollution-forever-chemicals “The Global Threat from the Irreversible Accumulation of Trifluoroacetic Acid (TFA) – ACS Publications” Hans Peter H. Arp, Andrea Gredelj, Juliane Gluge, Martin Scheringer, and Ian T. Cousins https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.4c06189          See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Join John Gardella, a renowned environmental lawyer from CMBG3 Law, as he dives into the intricate world of PFAS regulation and litigation. He discusses the dramatic rise of PFAS lawsuits, particularly in South Carolina, and highlights ongoing legal challenges companies face. Gardella sheds light on the upcoming EPA drinking water standards for 2024 and the political influences affecting regulation. With insights on innovative solutions like Epoch Enviro's SAF technology, he emphasizes the urgent need for accountability in tackling PFAS contamination.

In this discussion, Peter Murphy, Managing Director of EPOC Enviro, shares his extensive experience in PFAS remediation, focusing on innovative foam fractionation technology. He explains how their patented SAFF technology is revolutionizing PFAS removal and its global implications. The conversation also delves into the complexities of PFAS regulations and the importance of sustainable practices in environmental management. Peter highlights significant achievements, including treatment of 1.5 billion liters of contaminated water and the integration of eco-friendly biosurfactants.

David Beale, Adjunct Professor and senior research scientist at CSIRO, shares his insights on the alarming effects of PFAS contamination on freshwater turtles in Queensland. He discusses the use of advanced omics tools to assess environmental impacts, revealing troubling health indicators in turtle populations. The conversation highlights the accumulation of PFAS in turtles and its repercussions for reproductive success and ecosystem health. Beale emphasizes the urgent need for more research and innovative solutions to combat the ongoing environmental threat posed by these contaminants.

Dr. Cheng Zhang from the University of Queensland brings his expertise in polymer chemistry to discuss groundbreaking methods for removing PFAS from water and landfill leachate. He delves into the innovative use of PFAS in battery technology, highlighting collaborations aimed at enhancing battery performance while addressing environmental challenges. Zhang also reveals exciting advancements in water purification technology, emphasizing efficient approaches like magnetic particle filtration. His insights shed light on the complexities of PFAS contamination and the urgent need for effective remediation strategies.

In this engaging discussion, guests Paul Nathanail and Scott Warner share their expertise in contaminated land management and groundwater conditions. Paul, a Technical Director with vast experience, and Scott, a seasoned hydrogeologist, delve into innovative remediation techniques for PFAS contamination. They highlight the economic impacts of cleanup efforts and the crucial role of climate adaptation. The conversation also touches on community acceptance, regulatory changes, and cutting-edge monitoring technologies that can enhance remediation strategies. A must-listen for anyone interested in environmental science!

Peter Murphy, Managing Director of EPOC Enviro, dives into the innovative SAFF Foam Fractionation Technology for PFAS remediation. He discusses the challenges of removing short-chain PFAS and the financial implications of cleanup on private properties. The conversation highlights the advancements in SAF system manufacturing and the company’s expansion into the U.S. market. Murphy also explores the complexities of regulatory advancements and the importance of ongoing monitoring in water treatment, emphasizing the urgent need for effective solutions to combat global PFAS contamination.

John Gardella, a Boston attorney from CMBG3 Law, specializes in PFAS litigation and frequently writes for the National Law Review. In this discussion, he unpackages the U.S. EPA's proposed regulations on PFAS in drinking water, highlighting implications for public health. The conversation explores California’s Proposition 65 and emerging lawsuits against cosmetic companies for PFAS contamination. Gardella emphasizes the urgent need for robust scientific evidence and equitable funding for communities impacted by these harmful substances.

Scott Coffin, a Research Scientist with the California State Water Resources Control Board, opens up about the critical PFAS contamination issues in California’s drinking water. He discusses the state’s transparency laws under the Open Water Data Act, ensuring public access to environmental data. Scott also highlights innovative monitoring techniques using machine learning to predict contamination levels. He emphasizes the importance of community education on safe drinking water and calls for collaborative efforts to tackle the persistent challenge of PFAS and other pollutants.

Welcome back to Talking PFAS podcast.  I am a journalist and your host Kayleen Bell. Please note I am having some technical challenges with some podcast players not updating to my latest episode, especially Apple Podcasts and Spotify, which I am in the process of fixing.  I apologise for any inconvenience.  But you can always find the latest episode on my podcast host Omny Studio, and Podlink, Castbox, Podcast Addict, Podlink and Google podcasts.  If you enjoy this podcast please share to encourage more listeners to find this podcast. This is the finale for Season 5 of Talking PFAS.  I will be releasing two more episodes from international speakers from Clean-Up Conference 2022 in January, one speaker from California (up next) and one from Germany.  This will complete the series of interviews I recorded at Clean-Up Conference (2022). My guest today is Dr Mark Bowman, who is a Technical Director working for GHD based in Sydney, Australia.  He has worked on PFAS since 2005 helping to assess, clean-up and manage risks associated with their use.  Dr Bowman is widely published on PFAS management, and he also presented a session at the 2022 Clean-Up Conference on emerging contaminants, including PFAS. PFAS is a key focus for the team at GHD and Dr Bowman said their team had a strong presence at the Clean-Up Conference with up to 18 people attending including five from their Americas teams who are some of the leading people in North America dealing with PFAS and emerging contaminants. Dr Bowman said “GHD is championing PFAS response for clients in the Asia Pacific, Americas and Europe-Middle East. The company has industry leading PFAS response capabilities and is the most experienced and trusted team working to protect people and the environment from PFAS.” He also states: “GHD is successfully delivering PFAS contaminated site assessment, soil-water-sediment remediation, human health and ecological risk assessments, statutory audits, monitoring and strategic program management.  GHD also assists clients transition away from PFAS including advising on replacements and performing decontamination of plant and infrastructure.” In today’s episode Dr Bowman says a key take-away is this message, “it is fine to use a chemical that has been approved for commercial use but we need to ensure that unlike some of the challenges with PFAS where they have been dispersively released and haven’t controlled how we have used those chemicals that has been a key take-away.  We need to really not let those chemicals out into the environment in the first place.  It often doesn’t matter what the chemical is.  We don’t want it in our drinking water.  We don’t want them in our food.  We want to have safe, breathable air.  We want to have safe drinking water and it is best to ensure that we are not releasing chemicals into areas that we are using for food and water.” GHD Website  https://www.ghd.com/en/pfas.aspx Please note: I am an independent journalist and a podcaster no money was received for today’s interview.  If, in the future money is received from remediation companies (as sponsorship) to support the continuation of this podcast, I will disclose this.  Also any discussions with remediation companies is for information purposes, I am not endorsing any product or remediation method over another. Copyright:  Please share the episode (in whole) with acknowledgement via social media or website, but anyone wishing to edit, alter, or republish any information from this podcast in another form is subject to copyright and must contact the rights holder at TalkingPFAS@gmail.com.    See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.