

Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast
Barry Joseph & Broadway Podcast Network
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast in an open invitation into the puzzle-loving, game-designing mind of Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim. Based on the acclaimed book by Barry Joseph, each episode uncovers the hidden world of Sondheim’s lifelong passion for treasure hunts, cryptic crosswords, parlor games, and more. Join Barry and his guests—puzzle-makers, game designers, and Sondheim aficionados—as they explore how Sondheim's playful designs delivered moments of clarity and connection for friends, colleagues, and anyone who's ever been captivated by his genius. Whether you’re a musical theater fan, a puzzlehead, or just Sondheim-curious, this series invites you to match minds with Sondheim. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Dec 16, 2025 • 59min
#19-How Sondheim Gamified NYC - a talk at MCNY
Join the audience at the Museum of the City of New York as Joseph guides them on a tour of How Stephen Sondheim Gamified New York City. The talk explores the unique ways Sondheim incorporated the city into his games and puzzles. Through various anecdotes and historical references, Joseph highlights Sondheim's creative process, from his early board games to intricate treasure hunts and escape rooms. The presentation is enriched with clips from Sondheim's musicals, showcasing how his playful lens extended beyond the stage and into the real-world geography and culture of New York City. The episode emphasizes Sondheim's dual passion for theater and games, inviting the audience to experience New York City anew as an interactive playground.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Presentation Setup
02:26 Welcome to the Museum of the City of New York
03:15 Barry Joseph's Introduction
04:14 Sondheim's New York City Musicals
09:11 Sondheim's Treasure Hunts
12:29 Sondheim's Board Game for Hal Prince
15:32 A Little Night Music Treasure Hunt
17:26 Sondheim's Escape Room Experience
23:24 Sondheim's Cryptic Puzzles
27:57 Jurassic Treasure Hunt at the Museum of Natural History
29:11 Stephen Sondheim's Treasure Hunt Adventure
29:40 Exploring Iconic New York Locations
30:17 Challenges and Decisions in the Library
31:01 Natural History Museum: The Perfect Venue
31:27 Designing the Dinosaur Hall Puzzle
34:29 The Star-Studded Event
35:39 The Murder Game: A Meta-Puzzle
38:05 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
41:36 Q&A: Uncovering Sondheim's Hidden Treasures
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Museum of the City of New York
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Ann Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Of course, I'd also like to thank Nick Martinez and the whole crew at MCNY.
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Dec 9, 2025 • 54min
#18 - About the Author - Barry on The Broadway Radio Show
From an interview with Donald Feltham on his Broadway Radio Show, join Barry on his journey writing a book on Stephen Sondheim's love for puzzles and games, spurred by birthday gifts from his wife. Barry shares how interviewing over 120 people, many of whom were Sondheim's friends and game enthusiasts, helped paint a comprehensive picture of this multifaceted Broadway legend. The episode concludes with a plug for Barry's book and podcast, encouraging listeners to explore these resources for a deeper understanding of Sondheim's playful genius.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to the Episode
01:34 Donald Feltham's Broadway Radio Show
02:29 Discussing the Book: Matching Minds with Sondheim
03:06 Barry Joseph's Background and Inspiration
03:21 The Influence of Stephen Sondheim
04:43 The Genesis of the Book
05:13 Exploring Sondheim's Life and Work
10:48 The Ludological Lens
11:21 Structure of the Book
16:43 Sondheim's Playful Side
18:11 Research and Interviews
23:16 Sondheim's Treasure Hunts
26:51 Engaging Everyone at the Party
27:04 The 2013 Treasure Hunt
29:02 Recreating the Treasure Hunt Over Zoom
31:37 The Famous Murder Game
38:36 The Last of Sheila: From Game to Movie
43:57 Sondheim's Challenging Jigsaw Puzzles
48:32 Conclusion and Podcast Invitation
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Broadway Radio Show with Donald Feltham
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Of course, I'd also like to thank Donald Feltham both for interviewing me and letting me rebroadcast our interview.
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Dec 2, 2025 • 41min
#17-Steve is Love: Merrily We Play Along
Steve is Love: Merrily We Play Along
Celebrate the upcoming cinematic release of Broadway’s Merrily We Roll Along with this special episode, including an interview with Maria Friedman, the show’s innovative director. Maria shares insights into Sondheim's work, his love for puzzles and games, and how her production managed to solve the notoriously challenging musical. The episode also includes reflections on the autobiographical nature of Sondheim's writing, the role of games like Hostilities in his life and work, and excerpts from the upcoming proshot film release of Merrily We Roll Along.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Cold Open
00:14 Barry's post-theme opening
05:24 Trailer for Proshot of Merrily
07:03 Barry Interstitial
08:25 Maria Friedman interview: Part 1
15:21 Barry Interstitial
18:56 Excerpt from Podcast 1 analyzing Merrily
25:47 Barry Interstitial
26:04 Maria Friedman interview: Part 2
36:09 Barry's final interstitial
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Merrily We Roll Along (movie)
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode: the Musical Stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, our line producer Dennis Caouki, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy and sung by the one only Anne Morrison, currently on the road starring in Kimberly Akimbo. Of course, I'd also like to thank Maria Friedman and the full PR team that made her accessible for my interview.
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Nov 25, 2025 • 55min
#16-Give us more to hear: Bonus episode
Let me give you more to hear! A bonus episode. Revisit my interview with Richard Schoch, author of How Sondheim Can Change Your Life, exploring how Sondheim's works and different analytical lenses bring out varied interpretations. Dig deeper into the promotional jigsaw puzzles for the The Last of Sheila. Listen to anecdotes from my experience with the first-ever alternative reality game, The Beast. We’ll end with reflections on publishing a new book, sharing poignant advice for aspiring authors from Richard Schoch, and highlighting how the release of my book has resonated with readers and fans alike.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 The GIve Us More episode (Podcast)
01:57 1. Richard Schock and Anyone Can Whistle
07:53 2. The Last of Sheila's Promotional Jigsaw Puzzles
33:05 5. Richard Schoch, Puzzle Boxes, and Advice to Authors with Upcoming Books
47:37 7. Broadway Radio Show Recommendation
48:14 8. Katz JCC Q&A
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Reality Escape Pod
Richard Schoch
The Last of Sheila production short
Bernie De Koven’s The Well-Played Game
Matthew Farber and Tracy Fullerton’s The Well-Read Game
The Grammar Girl Podcast
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Nov 18, 2025 • 1h 11min
#15-Sondheim: Ace Human Hacker, or Sondheim & Parlor Games
You are formally invited to my Sondheim game night party, already underway. Join previous guests David Spira, Kellian Adams, and James McCusker as we tackle and explore Sondheim's intricate world of parlor games, such as Running Charades, The Listening Game, Bartletts, Camouflage, Hostilities, and The Murder Game. Discussions touch on game history, clever designs, and the emotional nuances Sondheim orchestrated. Learn why Kellian calls Sondheim an “Ace Human Hacker” and why this is my favorite episode to date!
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
00:57 Welcome to the Halloween Party
02:06 First Guests Arrive
04:58 Discussing Parlor Games
08:33 Exploring the Listening Game
14:23 Running Charades: Sondheim's Twist
18:26 Playing Bartletts: A Creative Challenge
27:23 Camouflage: Hidden in Plain Sight
33:57 Introducing the Game 'Hostilities'
34:38 Rules and Mechanics of 'Hostilities'
38:05 Reflecting on the Brutality of 'Hostilities'
47:11 Exploring the Murder Game
58:00 Sondheim's Approach to Game Design
01:03:24 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Club Drosselmeyer
Melissa Errico Sondheim In the City
The American Girl's Handy Book
Stephen Schiff
Richard Maltby, Jr.
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. And please welcome our new line producer, Dennis Caouki. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 11, 2025 • 34min
#14-Puzzling Through Sondheim
Please join me as we revisit my guest spots on Hello Puzzler, a delightful podcast hosted by AJ Jacobs and his Chief puzzle Officer, Greg Pliska. Each week, they have a celebrity guest who appears across three episodes, and they then toss puzzles at them like peanuts to an elephant. However, to me it was more like knives to a juggler who can't juggle. I tried. Really, I tried. So today you can listen to my second and third appearance. In the first one, Greg challenged me with an inventive and hilarious Sondheim theme puzzle. I'll let him explain how it works. But all you who know the names of Sondheim songs will especially enjoy playing from home. Then in my final appearance, I get to relax and turn the tables on them. I found a number of Sondheim's own puzzles from crosswords and treasure hunts, and challenged both AJ and Greg to try and solve them. Give it a shot at home and see if you do a better job than they did at… matching minds with Sondheim.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to the Puzzle Concept
05:07 Introducing Steven Sandheim
05:26 The Twist: One Letter Changes Everything
05:40 Example: West Side Stork
06:06 Explaining the Puzzle Format
06:13 First Puzzle Challenge
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Wonderful World of Words Weekend
The Hello Puzzler Podcast
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 4, 2025 • 51min
#13- Sondheim and Video Games
What. An. Episode! This one focuses on Stephen Sondheim's relationship with video games... sort of. This episode is hard to describe. The audio from today comes from a podcast I was a guest on by Dennis Hensley called Dennis Anyone? So is this just a re-podcast? Well, no. This is my own edit of that episode. See, this is what happened: Dennis invited me onto his podcast, then about an hour in his friend joined us. His name is also Dennis. So this episode could be called A Tale of Two Dennis. Let's call him Dennis 2. It turns out Dennis 2 was friends with Sondheim for around 35 years playing digital games with him. In fact, Sondheim would fly Dennis 2 out from LA just for weekend marathon play sessions of games like Myst and Oxyd. The thing is, Dennis 2 had never spoken publicly about his relationship with Sondheim. Even when Sondheim sent his biographer Meryle Secrest in the nineties to interview him. He never spoke about his relationship with Sondheim until this podcast episode, and it was pretty remarkable. Dennis 1 invited me to be both guest and host, so I got to interview Dennis 2 as well. As you know, my book is based on conversations with and information from over 120 people. But other than John Weidman, no one else spoke with me about playing digital games with Sondheim and how it framed their relationship. And no one shared photos with me. Until Dennis 2. It has been quite a trip! so please join me as we revisit it together.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 The Mysterious Invitation
00:43 Introduction to the Episode
01:21 A Tale of Two Dennis
01:32 Sondheim's Gaming Obsession
12:22 The Myst Experience
28:24 Sondheim's Humble Beginnings
30:10 The Last of Sheila: A Lifelong Bond
32:14 Games and Mentorship
35:49 Creative Criticism and Friendship
38:49 The Doctor is Out: A Critical Review
40:55 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
45:09 Reflections and Final Thoughts
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
"Dennis Anyone?" podcast
Video of Oxyd in Sondheim’s issue of Games Magazine: https://youtube.com/shorts/A-fnPWuzU0U?feature=shareThanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. And SPECIAL thanks to both Dennis Osborne and Dennis Hensley!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 28, 2025 • 56min
#12 - Matching Minds Live at the NYPL
In this special event at the New York Public Library for Performing Arts, Barry Joseph launches his new book, Matching Minds with Sondheim. The session dives into Stephen Sondheim's intricate world of puzzles and games, enriched by anecdotes from Joseph's extensive research, emphasizing the roles of research institutions in the development of the project. Attendees participate in an interactive game inspired by Sondheim, and hear from guest speakers including Richard Maltby Jr. (director and producer, lyricist, and screenwriter) and Daria Begley (writer for The Sondheim Society). Joseph shares insights into Sondheim's creative process, his love for puzzles, and his method of creating clarity and connection through games, offering a unique perspective on the Broadway legend.
This event was recorded at The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts. All rights reserved.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:15 Introducing Barry Joseph and His Book
02:11 Acknowledgements and Special Thanks
03:00 Interactive Audience Participation
04:04 Honoring Those Who Contributed
05:37 Exploring Sondheim's Puzzles and Games
09:24 Sondheim's Unique Card Game
12:47 Sondheim's Board Games for Bernstein
19:30 Playing Sondheim's Murder Game
22:08 Insights from Richard Malty Jr.
29:17 Sondheim's Jurassic Treasure Hunt
32:07 Daria Begley's Winning Experience
36:10 Sondheim's Puzzle Philosophy
37:25 Book Release and Q&A
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Richard Maltby
American Museum of Natural History
Michelle King
Lost for Words: A Party Card Game of Untranslatable Feelings
The blog post about this event, with photos (including the one with Daria, her T.rex, and the audience).
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 21, 2025 • 1h 3min
#11 - Unpacking The Last of Sheila
Join us as we unpack the 1973 murder mystery film The Last of Sheila, written by Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins. The discussion features guest James McCusker, a 45-year fan of Sondheim and a college composition professor. They explore the movie's origins, the unique parlor games that inspired the screenplay, and its impact on pop culture. Additional insights are provided by David Leopold from the Al Hirschfeld Foundation, highlighting Hirschfeld's unique promotional artwork for the film. The episode concludes by examining the film's game design elements and how they reflect Sondheim's creative mind.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to The Last of Sheila
01:26 Meet the Hosts: Barry and James
02:39 Origins of The Last of Sheila
05:02 Sondheim and Perkins: A Creative Partnership
13:52 The Games in The Last of Sheila
23:41 Exploring the Mysteries in Sheila
31:13 Clinton's Game and the Broken Pattern
32:23 The True Purpose of Clinton's Party
34:59 The Promotion and Press Book
36:23 Al Hirschfeld's Contribution
48:31 The Impact of 'The Last of Sheila'
53:53 Sondheim's Puzzle Design Values
57:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Al Hirschfeld Foundation
Hirschfeld's Sondheim: A Poster Book
Animation from Sondheim’s notes at the Library of Congress that create a crossword grid of the actor’s names.
The Last of Sheila production short
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 14, 2025 • 54min
#10 - The Brooklyn Book Festival - It’s Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games
In It's Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games, host Natan Last, author of the cultural history of crosswords, Across the Universe, moderates a discussion at the Brooklyn Book Festival with Barry Joseph, game designer and author of Matching Minds with Sondheim, and Juliana Pache, the creator of Black Crossword. The conversation delves into the cultural significance of games and puzzles and how they reflect history and community. Barry shares insights from his book while Juliana discusses the creation of Black Crossword and how it connects the African diaspora through daily mini puzzles. They explore themes such as the joy of solving cryptic crosswords, the social dynamics of community-based puzzles, and the personal impacts of puzzling on their own lives. The episode also introduces listeners to the intricacies of cryptic crosswords and how Sondheim popularized them in America.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Book Tour Updates
01:54 Brooklyn Book Festival Panel Introduction
02:49 Meet the Panelists
04:20 The Cultural Significance of Games and Puzzles
09:05 Creating Black Crossword
11:58 Sondheim's Fascination with Games
13:38 The Intersection of Puzzles and Culture
20:00 Challenges and Innovations in Crossword Puzzles
25:55 The Everything Bagel Crossword Controversy
26:25 The Art of Clue Writing
28:38 Community and Crosswords
30:32 The Power of Black Crosswords
34:42 Cryptic Crosswords Explained
37:08 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
41:42 Personal Stories and Puzzle Connections
44:26 Closing Thoughts on Crosswords and Community
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Natan Last
Juliana Pache
Brooklyn Book Festival
Locavore Variety Store
Recent talk: Interview and book reading at The Drama Book Shop
Recent talk: Playing and Composing with Graduate Students at NYU
Recent talk: Sondheim Week at the New York Public Library for The Performing Arts
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Exhibit
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


