

Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast
Barry Joseph & Broadway Podcast Network
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast in an open invitation into the puzzle-loving, game-designing mind of Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim. Based on the acclaimed book by Barry Joseph, each episode uncovers the hidden world of Sondheim’s lifelong passion for treasure hunts, cryptic crosswords, parlor games, and more. Join Barry and his guests—puzzle-makers, game designers, and Sondheim aficionados—as they explore how Sondheim's playful designs delivered moments of clarity and connection for friends, colleagues, and anyone who's ever been captivated by his genius. Whether you’re a musical theater fan, a puzzlehead, or just Sondheim-curious, this series invites you to match minds with Sondheim. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 28, 2025 • 56min
#12 - Matching Minds Live at the NYPL
In this special event at the New York Public Library for Performing Arts, Barry Joseph launches his new book, Matching Minds with Sondheim. The session dives into Stephen Sondheim's intricate world of puzzles and games, enriched by anecdotes from Joseph's extensive research, emphasizing the roles of research institutions in the development of the project. Attendees participate in an interactive game inspired by Sondheim, and hear from guest speakers including Richard Maltby Jr. (director and producer, lyricist, and screenwriter) and Daria Begley (writer for The Sondheim Society). Joseph shares insights into Sondheim's creative process, his love for puzzles, and his method of creating clarity and connection through games, offering a unique perspective on the Broadway legend.
This event was recorded at The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts. All rights reserved.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:15 Introducing Barry Joseph and His Book
02:11 Acknowledgements and Special Thanks
03:00 Interactive Audience Participation
04:04 Honoring Those Who Contributed
05:37 Exploring Sondheim's Puzzles and Games
09:24 Sondheim's Unique Card Game
12:47 Sondheim's Board Games for Bernstein
19:30 Playing Sondheim's Murder Game
22:08 Insights from Richard Malty Jr.
29:17 Sondheim's Jurassic Treasure Hunt
32:07 Daria Begley's Winning Experience
36:10 Sondheim's Puzzle Philosophy
37:25 Book Release and Q&A
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Richard Maltby
American Museum of Natural History
Michelle King
Lost for Words: A Party Card Game of Untranslatable Feelings
The blog post about this event, with photos (including the one with Daria, her T.rex, and the audience).
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 21, 2025 • 1h 3min
#11 - Unpacking The Last of Sheila
Join us as we unpack the 1973 murder mystery film The Last of Sheila, written by Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins. The discussion features guest James McCusker, a 45-year fan of Sondheim and a college composition professor. They explore the movie's origins, the unique parlor games that inspired the screenplay, and its impact on pop culture. Additional insights are provided by David Leopold from the Al Hirschfeld Foundation, highlighting Hirschfeld's unique promotional artwork for the film. The episode concludes by examining the film's game design elements and how they reflect Sondheim's creative mind.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to The Last of Sheila
01:26 Meet the Hosts: Barry and James
02:39 Origins of The Last of Sheila
05:02 Sondheim and Perkins: A Creative Partnership
13:52 The Games in The Last of Sheila
23:41 Exploring the Mysteries in Sheila
31:13 Clinton's Game and the Broken Pattern
32:23 The True Purpose of Clinton's Party
34:59 The Promotion and Press Book
36:23 Al Hirschfeld's Contribution
48:31 The Impact of 'The Last of Sheila'
53:53 Sondheim's Puzzle Design Values
57:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Al Hirschfeld Foundation
Hirschfeld's Sondheim: A Poster Book
Animation from Sondheim’s notes at the Library of Congress that create a crossword grid of the actor’s names.
The Last of Sheila production short
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 14, 2025 • 54min
#10 - The Brooklyn Book Festival - It’s Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games
In It's Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games, host Natan Last, author of the cultural history of crosswords, Across the Universe, moderates a discussion at the Brooklyn Book Festival with Barry Joseph, game designer and author of Matching Minds with Sondheim, and Juliana Pache, the creator of Black Crossword. The conversation delves into the cultural significance of games and puzzles and how they reflect history and community. Barry shares insights from his book while Juliana discusses the creation of Black Crossword and how it connects the African diaspora through daily mini puzzles. They explore themes such as the joy of solving cryptic crosswords, the social dynamics of community-based puzzles, and the personal impacts of puzzling on their own lives. The episode also introduces listeners to the intricacies of cryptic crosswords and how Sondheim popularized them in America.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Book Tour Updates
01:54 Brooklyn Book Festival Panel Introduction
02:49 Meet the Panelists
04:20 The Cultural Significance of Games and Puzzles
09:05 Creating Black Crossword
11:58 Sondheim's Fascination with Games
13:38 The Intersection of Puzzles and Culture
20:00 Challenges and Innovations in Crossword Puzzles
25:55 The Everything Bagel Crossword Controversy
26:25 The Art of Clue Writing
28:38 Community and Crosswords
30:32 The Power of Black Crosswords
34:42 Cryptic Crosswords Explained
37:08 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
41:42 Personal Stories and Puzzle Connections
44:26 Closing Thoughts on Crosswords and Community
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Natan Last
Juliana Pache
Brooklyn Book Festival
Locavore Variety Store
Recent talk: Interview and book reading at The Drama Book Shop
Recent talk: Playing and Composing with Graduate Students at NYU
Recent talk: Sondheim Week at the New York Public Library for The Performing Arts
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Exhibit
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 7, 2025 • 1h 6min
#09 - Sondheim and the 2013 City Center Treasure Hunt
Barry Joseph and guests walk through Sondheim’s final treasure hunt. Guests Kellian Adams Pletcher, a game designer at FableVision Studios, and Robert Lee, a faculty member and current chair of NYU's Tisch School of the Arts Graduate Musical Theatre Writing Program, join Barry to analyze and discuss Sondheim's love for treasure hunts. Together they explore his design of the 2013 City Center Treasure Hunt and the engaging experiences created for friends. The episode features anecdotes from participants in the 2013 City Center treasure hunt (Marty Granoff, Erin Ortman, Alexander Gemignani) highlighting Sondheim's genius in creating these immersive and fun-filled games. It also features analysis from those Joseph brought together to solve them for his book ( Andrew Parr, Jess Butler, Michael Mitnick, Mark Halpin, Richard Malty Jr.) in a half-day “re-staging”. Listen to learn more about Sondheim's playful side, his intellectual generosity, and the intricate puzzles that made his hunts legendary.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
01:15 Meet the Guests: Kellian Adams Pletcher and Robert Lee
02:28 Robert Lee's Journey with Sondheim and Games
06:19 Kellian's Early Love for Treasure Hunts
07:56 Stephen Sondheim's 2013 City Center Treasure Hunt
11:38 The Mechanics of the Treasure Hunt
20:51 Reflections on Sondheim's Puzzle Design
34:28 Exploring Ballroom Game Formats
34:55 Debating Sondheim's Puzzle Intentions
36:50 Diving into the Clues
38:16 The Thrill of Solving Puzzles
39:49 Sondheim's Puzzle Design Philosophy
41:32 The Grid and Grill Puzzle Challenge
43:17 Inclusivity in Puzzle Design
44:37 Solving Clue Number 12
48:57 Reflecting on Sondheim's Legacy
59:35 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 30, 2025 • 54min
#08 - Periodically Sondheim: His Puzzling Magazines
Barry Joseph and guest Andrew Parr page through Stephen Sondheim's passion for puzzle and game magazines. From Sondheim's early fascination with cryptic crosswords to his last major interview about puzzles, this episode uncovers how these collections provided inspiration for his works. Discover how Sondheim managed and preserved his assemblage, hear contributions from renowned puzzle creators, and explore the generational impact of Sondheim's puzzling endeavors.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:42 Introducing Tonight's Episode
01:56 Meet Andrew Parr
03:43 Andrew's Puzzle Box Journey
05:22 Connecting with Sondheim
08:13 Sondheim's Puzzle Collection
13:56 The Doyle Auction Experience
23:13 Unboxing Sondheim's Collection
25:34 Stephen Sondheim's Quest for Eye-Witness
26:41 The Significance of Games and Puzzles Magazine
28:29 Games Magazine and the 4-Star Puzzler
29:36 Stephen Sondheim's Puzzle-Solving Habits
36:55 Sondheim's Markings and Interests in Games
42:58 The Impact of Sondheim's Collection
47:08 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
Special Links:
Results from Sondheim auction
Andrew Parr’s True North Puzzles
Dr. Nicholas Phillips’ AffineCreations
Games World of Puzzles magazine
The Strong Museum of Play
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 24, 2025 • 51min
#07 - Sondheim For Sale: The Doyle Auction
Join us as we revisit the historic, jaw-dropping June 18th, 2024, Doyle Auction featuring items from the collection of Steven Sondheim. The episode explores the special day through interviews by Barry Joseph with guests Grace O'Keefe, Michael Mitnick, and Pat D’Amico, who share their experiences and emotional journeys related to Sondheim memorabilia. The discussion covers the auction's catalog, its exhibit, the auction day, and the aftermath. Highlights include personal stories, bidding wars, and the unique community of Sondheim enthusiasts that emerged, spreading the iconic artist’s legacy in meaningful ways.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
00:52 Meet the Guests: Grace, Michael, and Pat
02:36 The Auction Overview: Catalog, Exhibit, Auction, Aftermath
03:37 Chapter One: The Auction Catalog
12:22 Chapter Two: The Exhibit
18:57 Chapter Three: The Auction Begins
23:26 The Auction Room Buzz
23:59 Bidding Stories and Experiences
24:37 Online Bidding Challenges
25:47 Winning and Losing at the Auction
28:03 The Long Auction Day
29:10 Grace's Mission for Tarot Cards
31:23 The Auction's Grand Finale
32:59 The Aftermath and Community Spirit
41:17 Personal Reflections and New Beginnings
45:22 Closing Remarks and Future Plans
Special Links:
Pat’s Estate Sale 2: For the Rest of Us
Results from Sondheim auction
Full pdf of the Dolye auction lots
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 16, 2025 • 58min
#06 - Writing Sondheim: A Conversation with Richard Schock
Barry Joseph embarks on an insightful dialogue with Richard Schoch, author of How Sondheim Can Change Your Life. The conversation delves into the emotional and intellectual processes behind writing books about Stephen Sondheim, reflecting on the personal connections and lessons drawn from his works. Both authors discuss the creation and significance of their book titles and covers, emphasizing the importance of engaging readers in meaningful ways. Richard shares poignant moments about Sondheim, including a touching story from an escape room that highlights Sondheim's desire for connection. The episode underscores Sondheim's profound impact on life and art, revealing the harmonious connections found through diverse lenses of his musicals and puzzles.
Make sure to get a copy of Matching Minds with Sondheim everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Podcast - Richard Schoch
00:00 Cold Open
00:44 Introduction to the Podcast
01:18 Guest Introduction: Richard Schoch
02:13 Discussing Book Titles
04:35 Writing About Sondheim
09:02 Research and Interviews
13:01 Exploring Sondheim's Games and Puzzles
21:21 Book Covers and Design
23:41 Inviting You into Sondheim's World
24:16 Designing the Perfect Cover
24:16 The Story Behind the Cover
26:13 Engaging with the Community
34:00 Introducing Our Books
41:45 The Emotional Journey of Writing
52:06 Final Thoughts and Farewell
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 9, 2025 • 41min
#05 - Order Out of Chaos: Sondheim and Jigsaw Puzzles
Host Barry Joseph explores the profound connection between Stephen Sondheim and jigsaw puzzles. Joined by guests Michael Mitnick, an ardent collector of Sondheim memorabilia, and David Spira, co-creator of roomescapeartists.com, the trio delves into Sondheim's metaphorical view of puzzles in relation to art. The discussion spans from the unique jigsaw puzzles in Sondheim's collection, including promotional puzzles for his film 'The Last of Sheila,' to the custom-made puzzles he gave as opening night gifts for his Broadway shows. Through anecdotes and historical insights, this episode reveals how jigsaw puzzles reflect Sondheim's intricate mind and his attention to detail in both life and art.
This is the promised link to the photo discussed in this episode of Sondheim's wall of jigsaw puzzles in his Danbury CT home.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
00:57 Sondheim's Philosophy on Jigsaw Puzzles
01:30 Meet the Guests: Michael Mitnick and David Spira
02:04 Exploring Sondheim's Jigsaw Puzzle Collection
03:26 The Gold Boxes: The Last of Sheila
09:08 The Blue Boxes: Stave Puzzles
14:25 The White Boxes: Customized Stave Puzzles
17:38 Sondheim's Legacy and Personal Reflections
35:23 Conclusion and Credits
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 2, 2025 • 52min
#04 - Seeking Sondheim in the Stacks: Mark Eden Horowitz
Barry is joined by Mark Eden Horowitz, a senior music specialist at the Library of Congress, to explore the lesser-known aspects of Sondheim's gaming legacy that can be found in their collections. The conversation spans the new Sondheim archives recently acquired by the Library, including his music and lyric sketches, manuscripts, and rare items like personal scrapbooks. Mark shares anecdotes about Sondheim's unique board games created for friends, like The Great Conductor Hunt and Stardom, and his involvement in digital games, emphasizing his lifelong passion for puzzles and games. The episode includes an analysis of an extremely rare recording from 1968 created by Sondheim for his friend and colleague Leonard Bernstein. The episode also includes an analysis of a mysterious, unsolved manuscript from the collection, urging listeners to explore it further. This engaging dialogue offers new insights into Sondheim’s creative genius, showcasing his meticulous work ethic and multifaceted interests, and the importance of publicly-accessible research collections.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 A Moving Experience with Sondheim
00:46 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
01:45 The State of Sondheim Archives
03:47 Exploring the Library of Congress
06:15 The Leonard Bernstein Collection
09:26 Mark's First Meeting with Sondheim
13:08 Creating 'Sondheim on Music'
16:57 Sondheim's Board Game Designs
27:07 Sondheim's Fascination with The Fool's Errand
28:53 Sondheim's Potential Career Shift to Game Design
30:23 Sondheim's Love for Video Games
33:30 Sondheim's Board Game Design for Leonard Bernstein
43:12 Exploring Sondheim's Unsolved Mysteries
45:12 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Aug 26, 2025 • 1h 12min
#03 - Puzzles and Games in the Musicals of Sondheim, Part Two
Dive deep into how puzzles and games serve as leitmotifs throughout Stephen Sondheim's musical works with host Barry Joseph and co-host Gail Leondar-Wright in this second of two parts. Joined by a panel of Sondheim scholars and enthusiasts, including Doug Reside, Julie Klausner, Ben Rimalower, and Natalie Gerber, they explore key productions such as 'Into the Woods,' 'Putting It Together,' 'Road Show,' and Sondheim's final work, 'Here We Are.' The discussion highlights Sondheim's intricate play with word puzzles, musical motifs, and the structure of his shows. From examining the metaphorical use of poker in 'Road Show' to the surreal, game-like elements of 'Here We Are,' this episode offers a fresh lens through which to appreciate the genius of Sondheim's craft.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Cold Open
00:47 Exploring Puzzles and Games in Sondheim's Musicals
01:32 Introducing Co-Host Gail Leondar-Wright
01:57 Discussing the First Episode and Gail's Insights
03:08 Guest Introduction: Doug Reside
04:05 Guest Introduction: Julie Klausner
06:34 Guest Introduction: Ben Rimalower
09:09 Guest Introduction: Natalie Gerber
10:04 Diving into 'Into the Woods'
13:57 Sondheim's Influence from Computer Games
21:54 The Puzzle of Sondheim's Wordplay
29:22 Spinning the Sondheim-O-Matic
29:53 Exploring 'Putting It Together'
32:32 Sondheim's Self-Parody and Playfulness
33:36 The Intricacies of 'Putting It Together'
36:50 Exploring 'Road Show' and Its Themes
38:07 The Game of Capitalism in 'Road Show'
43:23 Sondheim's Final Work: 'Here We Are'
44:54 Surrealism and Puzzles in 'Here We Are'
46:50 The Ambiguity of Sondheim's Endings
59:37 Reflections on Sondheim's Legacy
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


