

Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast
Barry Joseph & Broadway Podcast Network
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Podcast in an open invitation into the puzzle-loving, game-designing mind of Broadway legend Stephen Sondheim. Based on the acclaimed book by Barry Joseph, each episode uncovers the hidden world of Sondheim’s lifelong passion for treasure hunts, cryptic crosswords, parlor games, and more. Join Barry and his guests—puzzle-makers, game designers, and Sondheim aficionados—as they explore how Sondheim's playful designs delivered moments of clarity and connection for friends, colleagues, and anyone who's ever been captivated by his genius. Whether you’re a musical theater fan, a puzzlehead, or just Sondheim-curious, this series invites you to match minds with Sondheim. Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Nov 25, 2025 • 55min
#16-Give us more to hear: Bonus episode
Let me give you more to hear! A bonus episode. Revisit my interview with Richard Schoch, author of How Sondheim Can Change Your Life, exploring how Sondheim's works and different analytical lenses bring out varied interpretations. Dig deeper into the promotional jigsaw puzzles for the The Last of Sheila. Listen to anecdotes from my experience with the first-ever alternative reality game, The Beast. We’ll end with reflections on publishing a new book, sharing poignant advice for aspiring authors from Richard Schoch, and highlighting how the release of my book has resonated with readers and fans alike.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 The GIve Us More episode (Podcast)
01:57 1. Richard Schock and Anyone Can Whistle
07:53 2. The Last of Sheila's Promotional Jigsaw Puzzles
33:05 5. Richard Schoch, Puzzle Boxes, and Advice to Authors with Upcoming Books
47:37 7. Broadway Radio Show Recommendation
48:14 8. Katz JCC Q&A
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Reality Escape Pod
Richard Schoch
The Last of Sheila production short
Bernie De Koven’s The Well-Played Game
Matthew Farber and Tracy Fullerton’s The Well-Read Game
The Grammar Girl Podcast
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 18, 2025 • 1h 11min
#15-Sondheim: Ace Human Hacker, or Sondheim & Parlor Games
You are formally invited to my Sondheim game night party, already underway. Join previous guests David Spira, Kellian Adams, and James McCusker as we tackle and explore Sondheim's intricate world of parlor games, such as Running Charades, The Listening Game, Bartletts, Camouflage, Hostilities, and The Murder Game. Discussions touch on game history, clever designs, and the emotional nuances Sondheim orchestrated. Learn why Kellian calls Sondheim an “Ace Human Hacker” and why this is my favorite episode to date!
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
00:57 Welcome to the Halloween Party
02:06 First Guests Arrive
04:58 Discussing Parlor Games
08:33 Exploring the Listening Game
14:23 Running Charades: Sondheim's Twist
18:26 Playing Bartletts: A Creative Challenge
27:23 Camouflage: Hidden in Plain Sight
33:57 Introducing the Game 'Hostilities'
34:38 Rules and Mechanics of 'Hostilities'
38:05 Reflecting on the Brutality of 'Hostilities'
47:11 Exploring the Murder Game
58:00 Sondheim's Approach to Game Design
01:03:24 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Club Drosselmeyer
Melissa Errico Sondheim In the City
The American Girl's Handy Book
Stephen Schiff
Richard Maltby, Jr.
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. And please welcome our new line producer, Dennis Caouki. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 11, 2025 • 34min
#14-Puzzling Through Sondheim
Please join me as we revisit my guest spots on Hello Puzzler, a delightful podcast hosted by AJ Jacobs and his Chief puzzle Officer, Greg Pliska. Each week, they have a celebrity guest who appears across three episodes, and they then toss puzzles at them like peanuts to an elephant. However, to me it was more like knives to a juggler who can't juggle. I tried. Really, I tried. So today you can listen to my second and third appearance. In the first one, Greg challenged me with an inventive and hilarious Sondheim theme puzzle. I'll let him explain how it works. But all you who know the names of Sondheim songs will especially enjoy playing from home. Then in my final appearance, I get to relax and turn the tables on them. I found a number of Sondheim's own puzzles from crosswords and treasure hunts, and challenged both AJ and Greg to try and solve them. Give it a shot at home and see if you do a better job than they did at… matching minds with Sondheim.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to the Puzzle Concept
05:07 Introducing Steven Sandheim
05:26 The Twist: One Letter Changes Everything
05:40 Example: West Side Stork
06:06 Explaining the Puzzle Format
06:13 First Puzzle Challenge
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Wonderful World of Words Weekend
The Hello Puzzler Podcast
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nov 4, 2025 • 51min
#13- Sondheim and Video Games
What. An. Episode! This one focuses on Stephen Sondheim's relationship with video games... sort of. This episode is hard to describe. The audio from today comes from a podcast I was a guest on by Dennis Hensley called Dennis Anyone? So is this just a re-podcast? Well, no. This is my own edit of that episode. See, this is what happened: Dennis invited me onto his podcast, then about an hour in his friend joined us. His name is also Dennis. So this episode could be called A Tale of Two Dennis. Let's call him Dennis 2. It turns out Dennis 2 was friends with Sondheim for around 35 years playing digital games with him. In fact, Sondheim would fly Dennis 2 out from LA just for weekend marathon play sessions of games like Myst and Oxyd. The thing is, Dennis 2 had never spoken publicly about his relationship with Sondheim. Even when Sondheim sent his biographer Meryle Secrest in the nineties to interview him. He never spoke about his relationship with Sondheim until this podcast episode, and it was pretty remarkable. Dennis 1 invited me to be both guest and host, so I got to interview Dennis 2 as well. As you know, my book is based on conversations with and information from over 120 people. But other than John Weidman, no one else spoke with me about playing digital games with Sondheim and how it framed their relationship. And no one shared photos with me. Until Dennis 2. It has been quite a trip! so please join me as we revisit it together.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 The Mysterious Invitation
00:43 Introduction to the Episode
01:21 A Tale of Two Dennis
01:32 Sondheim's Gaming Obsession
12:22 The Myst Experience
28:24 Sondheim's Humble Beginnings
30:10 The Last of Sheila: A Lifelong Bond
32:14 Games and Mentorship
35:49 Creative Criticism and Friendship
38:49 The Doctor is Out: A Critical Review
40:55 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
45:09 Reflections and Final Thoughts
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
"Dennis Anyone?" podcast
Video of Oxyd in Sondheim’s issue of Games Magazine: https://youtube.com/shorts/A-fnPWuzU0U?feature=shareThanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. And SPECIAL thanks to both Dennis Osborne and Dennis Hensley!
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 28, 2025 • 56min
#12 - Matching Minds Live at the NYPL
In this special event at the New York Public Library for Performing Arts, Barry Joseph launches his new book, Matching Minds with Sondheim. The session dives into Stephen Sondheim's intricate world of puzzles and games, enriched by anecdotes from Joseph's extensive research, emphasizing the roles of research institutions in the development of the project. Attendees participate in an interactive game inspired by Sondheim, and hear from guest speakers including Richard Maltby Jr. (director and producer, lyricist, and screenwriter) and Daria Begley (writer for The Sondheim Society). Joseph shares insights into Sondheim's creative process, his love for puzzles, and his method of creating clarity and connection through games, offering a unique perspective on the Broadway legend.
This event was recorded at The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts. All rights reserved.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:15 Introducing Barry Joseph and His Book
02:11 Acknowledgements and Special Thanks
03:00 Interactive Audience Participation
04:04 Honoring Those Who Contributed
05:37 Exploring Sondheim's Puzzles and Games
09:24 Sondheim's Unique Card Game
12:47 Sondheim's Board Games for Bernstein
19:30 Playing Sondheim's Murder Game
22:08 Insights from Richard Malty Jr.
29:17 Sondheim's Jurassic Treasure Hunt
32:07 Daria Begley's Winning Experience
36:10 Sondheim's Puzzle Philosophy
37:25 Book Release and Q&A
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Richard Maltby
American Museum of Natural History
Michelle King
Lost for Words: A Party Card Game of Untranslatable Feelings
The blog post about this event, with photos (including the one with Daria, her T.rex, and the audience).
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 21, 2025 • 1h 3min
#11 - Unpacking The Last of Sheila
Join us as we unpack the 1973 murder mystery film The Last of Sheila, written by Stephen Sondheim and Anthony Perkins. The discussion features guest James McCusker, a 45-year fan of Sondheim and a college composition professor. They explore the movie's origins, the unique parlor games that inspired the screenplay, and its impact on pop culture. Additional insights are provided by David Leopold from the Al Hirschfeld Foundation, highlighting Hirschfeld's unique promotional artwork for the film. The episode concludes by examining the film's game design elements and how they reflect Sondheim's creative mind.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to The Last of Sheila
01:26 Meet the Hosts: Barry and James
02:39 Origins of The Last of Sheila
05:02 Sondheim and Perkins: A Creative Partnership
13:52 The Games in The Last of Sheila
23:41 Exploring the Mysteries in Sheila
31:13 Clinton's Game and the Broken Pattern
32:23 The True Purpose of Clinton's Party
34:59 The Promotion and Press Book
36:23 Al Hirschfeld's Contribution
48:31 The Impact of 'The Last of Sheila'
53:53 Sondheim's Puzzle Design Values
57:10 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
The Al Hirschfeld Foundation
Hirschfeld's Sondheim: A Poster Book
Animation from Sondheim’s notes at the Library of Congress that create a crossword grid of the actor’s names.
The Last of Sheila production short
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 14, 2025 • 54min
#10 - The Brooklyn Book Festival - It’s Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games
In It's Puzzling: The Power of Crosswords and Games, host Natan Last, author of the cultural history of crosswords, Across the Universe, moderates a discussion at the Brooklyn Book Festival with Barry Joseph, game designer and author of Matching Minds with Sondheim, and Juliana Pache, the creator of Black Crossword. The conversation delves into the cultural significance of games and puzzles and how they reflect history and community. Barry shares insights from his book while Juliana discusses the creation of Black Crossword and how it connects the African diaspora through daily mini puzzles. They explore themes such as the joy of solving cryptic crosswords, the social dynamics of community-based puzzles, and the personal impacts of puzzling on their own lives. The episode also introduces listeners to the intricacies of cryptic crosswords and how Sondheim popularized them in America.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Book Tour Updates
01:54 Brooklyn Book Festival Panel Introduction
02:49 Meet the Panelists
04:20 The Cultural Significance of Games and Puzzles
09:05 Creating Black Crossword
11:58 Sondheim's Fascination with Games
13:38 The Intersection of Puzzles and Culture
20:00 Challenges and Innovations in Crossword Puzzles
25:55 The Everything Bagel Crossword Controversy
26:25 The Art of Clue Writing
28:38 Community and Crosswords
30:32 The Power of Black Crosswords
34:42 Cryptic Crosswords Explained
37:08 Sondheim's Puzzle Legacy
41:42 Personal Stories and Puzzle Connections
44:26 Closing Thoughts on Crosswords and Community
Special Links:
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Natan Last
Juliana Pache
Brooklyn Book Festival
Locavore Variety Store
Recent talk: Interview and book reading at The Drama Book Shop
Recent talk: Playing and Composing with Graduate Students at NYU
Recent talk: Sondheim Week at the New York Public Library for The Performing Arts
Matching Minds with Sondheim: The Exhibit
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Oct 7, 2025 • 1h 6min
#09 - Sondheim and the 2013 City Center Treasure Hunt
Kellian Adams Pletcher, a game designer and immersive-theater creator, and Robert Lee, a book writer and chair of NYU Tisch's Graduate Musical Theatre Writing Program, dive into Stephen Sondheim's playful genius in designing the 2013 City Center Treasure Hunt. They discuss Sondheim's love for puzzles and games, share memorable anecdotes from participants, and break down the intricate mechanics behind each clue. The conversation explores the overlap between game design and musical theater, highlighting Sondheim's intellectual generosity and his desire to entertain and challenge friends.

Sep 30, 2025 • 54min
#08 - Periodically Sondheim: His Puzzling Magazines
Barry Joseph and guest Andrew Parr page through Stephen Sondheim's passion for puzzle and game magazines. From Sondheim's early fascination with cryptic crosswords to his last major interview about puzzles, this episode uncovers how these collections provided inspiration for his works. Discover how Sondheim managed and preserved his assemblage, hear contributions from renowned puzzle creators, and explore the generational impact of Sondheim's puzzling endeavors.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:42 Introducing Tonight's Episode
01:56 Meet Andrew Parr
03:43 Andrew's Puzzle Box Journey
05:22 Connecting with Sondheim
08:13 Sondheim's Puzzle Collection
13:56 The Doyle Auction Experience
23:13 Unboxing Sondheim's Collection
25:34 Stephen Sondheim's Quest for Eye-Witness
26:41 The Significance of Games and Puzzles Magazine
28:29 Games Magazine and the 4-Star Puzzler
29:36 Stephen Sondheim's Puzzle-Solving Habits
36:55 Sondheim's Markings and Interests in Games
42:58 The Impact of Sondheim's Collection
47:08 Concluding Thoughts and Reflections
Special Links:
Results from Sondheim auction
Andrew Parr’s True North Puzzles
Dr. Nicholas Phillips’ AffineCreations
Games World of Puzzles magazine
The Strong Museum of Play
Colm Molloy
Ann Morrison
Mateo Chavez Lewis
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sep 24, 2025 • 51min
#07 - Sondheim For Sale: The Doyle Auction
Join us as we revisit the historic, jaw-dropping June 18th, 2024, Doyle Auction featuring items from the collection of Steven Sondheim. The episode explores the special day through interviews by Barry Joseph with guests Grace O'Keefe, Michael Mitnick, and Pat D’Amico, who share their experiences and emotional journeys related to Sondheim memorabilia. The discussion covers the auction's catalog, its exhibit, the auction day, and the aftermath. Highlights include personal stories, bidding wars, and the unique community of Sondheim enthusiasts that emerged, spreading the iconic artist’s legacy in meaningful ways.
Make sure to get the book everywhere books are found, or click here.
00:00 Introduction to Matching Minds with Sondheim
00:52 Meet the Guests: Grace, Michael, and Pat
02:36 The Auction Overview: Catalog, Exhibit, Auction, Aftermath
03:37 Chapter One: The Auction Catalog
12:22 Chapter Two: The Exhibit
18:57 Chapter Three: The Auction Begins
23:26 The Auction Room Buzz
23:59 Bidding Stories and Experiences
24:37 Online Bidding Challenges
25:47 Winning and Losing at the Auction
28:03 The Long Auction Day
29:10 Grace's Mission for Tarot Cards
31:23 The Auction's Grand Finale
32:59 The Aftermath and Community Spirit
41:17 Personal Reflections and New Beginnings
45:22 Closing Remarks and Future Plans
Special Links:
Pat’s Estate Sale 2: For the Rest of Us
Results from Sondheim auction
Full pdf of the Dolye auction lots
Thanks to everyone who contributed behind the scenes to this episode, specifically transcription and text editing by Jenny Westfall, the musical stingers composed by Mateo Chavez Lewis, and the theme song to our podcast with lyrics and music by Colm Molloy, and sung by the one and only Ann Morrison, who created the role of Mary in Merrily We Roll Along. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices


