

Enterprising Investor
CFA Institute
Enterprising Investor is the flagship podcast of CFA Institute and the definitive program for the investment management industry. As stewards of the investment industry, Enterprising Investor will feature intimate conversations with some of the most influential people from the world of finance about the topics that matter most to investment professionals.
Episodes
Mentioned books

May 26, 2021 • 39min
The Journey to Building an Expert Network
Troy Lavinia, founder and CEO of Mosaic Research Management, explains what an expert network is and how analysts, portfolio managers, and other researchers use them as part of the investment process. He also discusses his decision to become and entrepreneur and build his own expert network and what he has learned along the way about building teams and systems. ▶️ Subscribe to the Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop 📃 Transcript: https://cfainst.is/2SLGHzr 📧 Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ___________________________________________________________________________ Episode Breakdown: 1:15 What is an expert network? 7:26 Troy’s moment of realization and what he was doing he founded Mosaic 11:05 Doubting moments during Troy’s entrepreneurship journey 14:05 Do you have to be an optimist to be an entrepreneur 16:13 Why Troy decided to start his company 18:13 How Troy is disrupting the space now 12:09 Transcripts: Stream by Mosaic 24:20 Teams, systems, and spirituality AND artists, entrepreneurs, and employees 31:52 Troy’s recommended books 33:24 Wrap-up questions Ray of sunshine from the pandemic NASA flight – what do you take with you? Flight or invisibility? ___________________________________________________________________________ Related articles and links: Mosaic Research Management: https://mosaicrm.com/ Stream by Mosaic: https://start.mosaicrm.com/stream-try Book: The War of Art: https://stevenpressfield.com/books/the-war-of-art/ Book: Team Of Teams: https://www.amazon.com/Team-Teams-Rules-Engagement-Complex/dp/1591847486 ___________________________________________________________________________ Find Troy here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troylavinia/ Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

May 19, 2021 • 38min
The Trouble with Stock Market Bubbles
David DeRosa, author of “Bursting the Bubble: Rationality in a Seemingly Irrational Market,” a new monograph from the CFA Institute Research Foundation, discusses his conclusions on whether speculative bubbles exist in the stock market. ▶️ Subscribe to the Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop 📃Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3bGIAUP 📧 Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ___________________________________________________________________________ Episode Breakdown: 1:35 David talks about the journey of writing his book 3:55 Are there no bubbles? 7:31 If they’re not bubbles, what do you call them? 8:48 Why David believe the Dutch Tulipmania was not a bubble 11:32 John Law 14:17 David taking issue with some of the most famous people in the field, specifically Robert J. Shiller 21:40 David talks about bitcoin 24:35 Is there a bubble brewing in NFTs? 26:25 Explaining the .com and housing “bubble” 30:35 Wrap-up questions - Ray of sunshine question: one positive long-lasting change David hopes to see as a result of the pandemic - One item David would take with him on a NASA flight - Flight v. Invisibility? ___________________________________________________________________________ Related articles and links: Monograph: https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/foundation/2021/bursting-the-bubble The book "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" by Charles Mackay: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-and-the-Madness-of-Crowds/Charles-MacKay/9781625585011 Book of photographs from Ancient Egypt: https://www.amazon.com/Images-Ancient-Egypt-David-DeRosa/dp/1364927071 ___________________________________________________________________________ Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

May 12, 2021 • 31min
Is a Hybrid Model the Future of Work?
Rebecca Fender, CFA, co-author of a new report, "Future of Work in Investment Management: Context, Content, and Culture," shares some findings from a recent survey of investment professionals as well as conclusions for what this means for where, what, and how work gets done. She also discusses building trust and the relationship between working from home and maintaining a high-performance culture. ____ ► Subscribe to the Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3xOkeSq ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:11 What Rebecca has learned from the new report, "The Future of Work in Investment Management” 4:54 Understanding what a hybrid work model is 6:24 The response from the investment management industry 8:38 Is there a potential for tension between what employees want and what employers want? 10:34 The future of work travel and what are the extrinsic and intrinsic motivations? 15:11 New skills that workers need to acquire to thrive in a new work environment 17:13 Can high performance culture exist in a hybrid work model? 19:04 The challenge of building and rebuilding trust with employees 22:50 What Rebecca has enjoyed about having more time at home and what she misses about coming to the office. 26:22 Wrap up questions -Ray of sunshine -NASA -Flight vs. Invisibility ____ Related articles and links: Future of Work Executive Summary https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/survey-reports/future-of-work 2020 Earning Investors' Trust https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/survey-reports/2020-earning-investors-trust 2020 Future of Sustainability in Investment Report Managementhttps://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/survey-reports/future-of-sustainability Article: “WFH Not Conducive to ‘High-Performance Culture’: BlackRock CEO” https://www.ignites.com/c/3127684/394794 CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Rebecca here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeccafender/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/rebeccafender?lang=en Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

May 5, 2021 • 39min
Re-Thinking Performance Culture in Asset Management
When Ben Lucas, UK Head of Wealth & Asset Management Consulting at KPMG, wrote that his biggest non-negotiable is daily exercise, the post went viral. He explains why his message resonated with so many people and why exercise, sleep, and time away from a desk are not in conflict with performance culture, as some think, but are what performance is all about. ____ ► Subscribe to the Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3aXw9nf ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:25 Intro 3:12 Ben’s exercise LinkedIn post 6:28 What prompted Ben to write the post 9:58 New habits that Ben has formed 13:50 Exercise is a non-negotiable 17:16 Exercise at home during a pandemic 20:36 Performance culture vs. exercising 23:22 The importance of sleep 25:09 Survey takeaways from 50 leaders of wealth and asset management firms 29:17 We need to find better language 31:00 “The COVID muscle memory” 32:40 Ben’s advice to others on building trust 34:45 Wrap-up questions Ray of sunshine NASA Flight or invisibility ____ Related articles and links: Viral post https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-6769557311582154752-vs04 Follow-up post https://www.linkedin.com/posts/benjamin-lucas-38b53837_performance-leadership-balance-activity-6789100047322619904-2Ttf New report in Act 2 https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhome.kpmg%2Fuk%2Fen%2Fhome%2Finsights%2F2020%2F11%2Fwhats-shaping-the-future-of-asset-management.html&data=04%7C01%7Clauren.foster%40cfainstitute.org%7C2bea39b560c24979104d08d90988a67f%7C53a818f111e046388863b78b176399bd%7C1%7C0%7C637551304817238573%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=VTMlE7GAgLOaYtbYB8IPlbn%2FY8Sj2n%2B%2FTArBq4h1OZU%3D&reserved=0 CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Ben here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-lucas-38b53837/ Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

Apr 28, 2021 • 32min
Warren Buffett and the “Money Mind”
Bestselling author Robert G. Hagstrom, CFA, senior portfolio manager at EquityCompass, takes listeners on a journey from the time he first heard Warren Buffett talk about a “money mind” to what he learned while researching and writing his latest book, “Warren Buffett: Inside the Ultimate Money Mind,” about the mindset and ideas that shaped the legendary investor’s investment methods. ____ ► Subscribe to our Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3mZN6lA ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 1:45 Intro 2:50 Robert talks about his new book, Warren Buffett: Inside the Ultimate Money Mind 3:55 Temperament and why it’s critical as an element of a money mind? 4:47 What is a money mind? 5:55 Building blocks to a money mind 9:41 How does the average investor emulate Warren Buffett and these building blocks? 11:13 Investing is easier than you think but harder than it looks – Is that temperament? 13:36 Robert’s favorite chapter 16:40 The “Woodstock for Capitalists” annual meeting and how many Robert has attended 18:50 What Robert will be listening for at this year’s meeting 20:05 Warren Buffett wrote that debt securities face a bleak future – do you agree? 22:12 The perennial question – who will succeed Warren Buffett as Chief Executive? 23:17 The relationship between Warren and Charlie 25:13 Cocktail nugget – One Thousand Ways to Make $1000 by FC Minaker 27:02 Penny scale 28:49 A cocktail nugget about Warren and Charlie ____ Related articles and links: Warren Buffett: Inside the Ultimate Money Mind https://www.wiley.com/en-us/Warren+Buffett%3A+Inside+the+Ultimate+Money+Mind-p-9781119714590 The Warren Buffett Way https://www.amazon.com/Warren-Buffett-Way-Robert-Hagstrom/dp/1118503252 One Thousand Ways to Make $1000 https://www.amazon.com/One-Thousand-Ways-Make-1000-ebook/dp/B0170AKILI/ref=sr_1_3?crid=2NTCHCZ4CVRLR&dchild=1&keywords=1000+way+to+make+1000+dollars&qid=1618843035&sprefix=1000+way+to+make+%2Cstripbooks%2C156&sr=8-3 CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Robert here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberthagstrom Twitter: https://twitter.com/robertghagstrom?lang=en Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

Apr 21, 2021 • 27min
Truth vs Lies: Using Text-Based Analysis to Detect Deception
Jason Voss, CFA, CEO of Active Investment Management Consulting, explains why body language does not work for detecting deception and how Deception and Trust Analysis, or D.A.T.A., a computer-driven, text-based deception detection method, can save investment professionals time and resources. ____ ► Subscribe to our Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g?app=desktop ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3mhwqpG ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:08 Do polygraphs work? 2:50 How Jason become interested in field of deception? 4:16 Why body language doesn’t work and the data behind it 5:41 What does work? 7:21 S.U.E and D.A.T.A. 9:06 Fraud versus deception 9:59 How the D.A.T.A. process works 13:54 Warcard database 15:15 Strong truth bias in the investment profession 17:55 Real-world applications for D.A.T.A for analysts and investors 20:02 GameStop and short-sellers 22:07 Closing questions One positive long-term impact as result from the pandemic One item you would bring on a long NASA flight Flight or invisibility ___ Related articles and links: Article: Financial Analysis and the Art of Lie and Fraud Detection https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b14zbb72nrxsjw/financial-analysis-and-the-art-of-lie-and-fraud-detection Brief: Detecting Lies in the Financial Industry: A Survey of Investment Professionals' Beliefs https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/cfa-digest/2016/01/detecting-lies-in-the-financial-industry-a-survey-of-investment-professionals-beliefs-digest- Book: Lie Detection Guide: Theory and Practice for Investment Professionals https://www.amazon.com/Lie-Detection-Guide-Investment-Professionals/dp/1942713355 The Secret Life of Pronouns by James W. Pennebaker https://www.secretlifeofpronouns.com/ Enterprising Investor article: Fraud and Deception Detection: Text-Based Analysis https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2021/02/15/fraud-and-deception-detection-text-based-analysis/ Deception and Truth Analysis homepage: https://deceptionandtruthanalysis.com/ Jason’s most listened-to song: link to Johnny Osbourne's "Murderer” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZzcV07D19w CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Jason here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonapollovoss Twitter: https://twitter.com/theintuitinvest?lang=en Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc

Apr 14, 2021 • 41min
Investing Lessons: From Baseball to Bitcoin and Brené Brown
Michael Falk, CFA, a partner at the Focus Consulting, applies the lessons he learned as a competitive baseball pitcher to investment teams and discusses the importance of creating a sell discipline for losers and winners in an investment portfolio, his many writing projects, and living with ALS, or Lou Gehrig's disease. ____ ► Subscribe to our Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/3loZLxT ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:10 Michael’s love for baseball and lessons to learn from the sport 4:33 Becoming a better listener 8:05 Sell discipline 11:11 When to retire and succession planning 15:17 Michael’s article, Everything You Want to Know About Investing 18:30 Michael’s new paper on stakeholder capitalism 21:25 Bitcoin: how should investors be thinking about cryptocurrencies 25:30 Michael’s thoughts on blockchain technology 27:28 Michael’s clinical trial 34:28 Embracing vulnerability 38:08 Flight or invisibility? Related articles and links: Everything You Need to Know About Investing https://www.iwmonitordigital.com/iwmonitor/november_december_2020/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1652473&app=false&cmsId=3881786#articleId1652473 Crypto Dreamin’? The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2020/06/16/crypto-dreamin-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/ Michael S. Falk, CFA, on Safety Nets, Trampolines, and Opportunity Equality https://blogs.cfainstitute.org/investor/2020/09/15/michael-s-falk-cfa-on-safety-nets-trampolines-and-opportunity-equality/ Drug May Extend A.L.S. Patients’ Lives by Several Months, Study Finds https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/health/ALS-treatment.html Brené Brown’s TED talk, The Power of Vulnerability https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=iCvmsMzlF7o John Hodgman on This American Life ep.178 https://www.thisamericanlife.org/178/superpowers/act-one-0 HBR video “Five Whys” https://hbr.org/video/2189146765001/5-whys HBR article The Contradictions That Drive Toyota’s Success https://hbr.org/2008/06/the-contradictions-that-drive-toyotas-success This American Life ep. 178: Invisible Man Vs. Hawkman CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ Find Michael here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mlfalk/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/msfalk?lang=en Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc Connect with the Research Foundation: RF Showcase page: https://lnkd.in/e66zSKD Download and share RF content (free to all): https://lnkd.in/emhTTi5

Apr 7, 2021 • 28min
Understanding Risk Management: From Surfing to Retirement
Perfect risk estimates do not exist, so how do we balance risk and reward? Risk scholar Allison Schrager, author of the CFA Institute Research Foundation brief “Learning About Risk Management: Insights from Unconventional Risk-Takers,” provides insights on the nature of risk and uncertainty and potential reward and how to manage the trade-off. ____ ► Subscribe to our Take 15 Podcast YouTube channel ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/2P87gNN ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:25 Brothel, pimp, and risk management? 5:30 More noes than yeses 7:42 The art of storytelling 9:41 Lessons learned from big wave surfing 13:16 Allison’s book, An Economist Walks into a Brothel: And Other Unexpected Places to Understand Risk 14:40 What is risk? And what is prudent or good risk management? 15:50 Retirement: What does it look like in the US right now? What worries you? And what gives you hope? 17:45 Should the idea of retirement be reimagined? [HBR link] 19:41 Why shouldn’t Americans own stocks? 22:10 What’s next on Allison’s to-do-list? 23:15 Allison’s advice on encouraging people to take on more sensible risk 24:05 Wrap-up questions o One long-term change that you hope to see as a result of the pandemic o What one item would you bring on a long space flight? o Flight vs. invisibility? ___ Related articles and links: Learning about Risk Management: Insights from Unconventional Risk-Takers: https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/foundation/2020/learning-about-risk-management An Economist Walks into a Brothel: And Other Unexpected Places to Understand Risk: https://www.amazon.com/Economist-Walks-into-Brothel-Unexpected-ebook/dp/B07FLK37HC#:~:text=Amazon.com%3A%20An%20Economist%20Walks,%3A%20Schrager%2C%20Allison%3A%20Kindle%20Store HBR article Why Retirement Is a Flawed Concept: https://hbr.org/2016/04/why-retirement-is-a-flawed-concept CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Allison here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allison-schrager-4109015/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/AllisonSchrager Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc Connect with the Research Foundation: RF Showcase page: https://lnkd.in/e66zSKD Download and share RF content (free to all): https://lnkd.in/emhTTi5

Mar 31, 2021 • 37min
Why Financial Advisers Must Generate Relationship Alpha
Charlotte Beyer, founder and former CEO of the Institute for Private Investors and author or the CFA Institute Research Foundation brief “Relationship Alpha: The Emerging Competitive Advantage in Wealth Management,” explains what relationship alpha is and why it’s important and how advisers can better serve their clients. ____ ► Subscribe to the Take 15 channel here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/2QAbHkV ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 2:15 Intro: How Charlotte founded the Institute for Private Investors (IPI) 3:56 What has changed in wealth management over the last four decades 7:00 What really works well for advisors? 9:57 Research Foundation brief, Relationship Alpha: what is the relationship alpha and why should advisees care more about it? 3:18 How do advisors improve their authenticity in a virtual setting? 14:45 How does one measure relationship alpha? And can you train relationship alpha? 18:55 Key takeaways for marketing to prospects 21:38 Work at Wharton and eight components of wealth management chats 25:40 How do advisors distinguish themselves? How can advisors know if the client meeting is being successful? 29:25 Charlotte’s book list 32:25 Wrap-up questions o One long-term change that you hope to see as a result of the pandemic o What one item would you bring on a long space flight? o Flight vs. invisibility? ___ Related articles and links: Research Foundation Brief: https://www.cfainstitute.org/en/research/foundation/2019/beyer-brief Link to the CFA Institute research: https://www.cfainstitute.org/-/media/documents/support/membership/value-of-premium-wealth-management.ashx (The research is cited on footnote #8 on page 19) That's What She Said: What Men Need to Know (and Women Need to Tell Them) About Working Together by Joanne Lipman A Wealth of Possibilities: Navigating Family, Money, and Legacy by Ellen Miley Perry CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc Find Charlotte here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charlottebeyer/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/CharlotteBBeyer Connect with the Research Foundation: RF Showcase page: https://lnkd.in/e66zSKD Download and share RF content (free to all): https://lnkd.in/emhTTi5

Mar 24, 2021 • 42min
Cryptoassets: Complex, Risky, and Exciting
Matt Hougan, chief investment officer at Bitwise Asset Management and co-author of the CFA Institute Research Foundation brief, “Cryptoassets: The Guide to Bitcoin, Blockchain, and Cryptocurrency for Investment Professionals,” discusses valuation, risks, and what watch for on the horizon. ____ ► Subscribe to the Take 15 channel here https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCA3HUMuK4FSp_CvQH_2Ji7g ►Transcript: https://cfainst.is/30VPT5n ►Email us for comments, questions, or appearance requests:Take15podcast@cfainstitute.org ____ Topics discussed: 4:00 - Philosophy to ETFs and the leap into Bitcoin 4:43 - The light-bulb moment 11:45 - Crypto: the next big disruptive area of finance 14:40 - The reason behind why there is more than one cryptoasset? 17:29 - What role, if any, should cryptoassets have in a professionally managed portfolio and individual investors? 20:26 - What should financial advisors be thinking about and should they be caring about crypto? What should they be doing about the clients in crypto? 22:30 - What Matt thinks the biggest misunderstanding about crypto is? What is the actual reality? 24:36 - What do you say to the naysayers on crypto? 26:35 - Matt discusses allegations that the benefits of blockchain are exaggerated 29:11 - Five most widely used cryptoasset valuation techniques 23:19 - What should we watch out for on the horizon? 36:24 - What Matt holds in his crypto portfolio 37:20 - Closing questions - Ray of sunshine: long-term positive change from the pandemic - What do you take with you on a long NASA flight? - Flight vs. invisibility Related articles and links: Research Foundation Briefs: Cryptoassets: The Guide to Bitcoin, Blockchain, and Cryptocurrency for Investment Professionals White paper: "The Case for Bitcoin in the Institutional Portfolio” Download and share Research Foundation content (free to all): https://lnkd.in/emhTTi5 CFA Institute members and charterholders Professional Learning Tracker https://cpd.cfainstitute.org/ ____ Find Lauren here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren- foster/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/laurenfosternyc Find Matt here: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-hougan Twitter: https://twitter.com/matt_hougan?lang=en Connect with the Research Foundation: RF Showcase page: https://lnkd.in/e66zSKD Download and share RF content (free to all): https://lnkd.in/emhTTi5