The What School Could Be Podcast

A heartfelt father-daughter interview highlights transformative education and community connections. They reflect on personal anecdotes and Indigenous heritage, celebrating their bond and shared experiences. Discussion includes the impact of mentorship and the importance of cultivating hope in learning environments. There's a touching moment over breakfast that emphasizes simple joys and future visions in education. The conversation wraps with insights from a life-changing documentary, showcasing resilience and the collective effort needed to inspire joy in educational landscapes.

INSTALL THE OUR FAMILY CULTURE APP FROM YOUR FAVORITE APP STORE AND USE THE PROMO CODE: WSCB. Today my guests are Steve Shapiro and his sister, Nancy Rapport, veteran educators in the Great State of Ohio. During his 34 years as a public-school educator, Steven Shapiro emerged as a national thought leader in experiential learning. His acclaimed podcast, Experience Matters, featured national experts including Daniel Pink, Tony Wagner, and Father Greg Boyle. In addition to his work as a high school teacher/program director/district leader, Steve trained teachers at Ohio State University, provided professional learning for educators in emerging democracies (including Poland, Ukraine, and South Africa), and was a regular keynote and conference speaker. At all stages of his career, he has been committed to designing powerful experiential learning opportunities that transformed the lives of students and teachers alike. Steve’s most important work, however, was partnering with his wife Susan to raise their three (now adult) children.Nancy Rapport spent the majority of her 34-year public-education career as a school counselor, supporting students and parents in navigating the challenging “middle years.” Her leadership roles in professional development and crisis management showcased her ability to identify needs, empathize with various stakeholders, and deliver results. As a certified Hudson Institute coach, Nancy has extensive training in coaching and human development. She leads courses on learner mindset and question thinking for the Inquiry Institute, helping adults pursue a life of curiosity, inquiry, and possibility. Nancy brings a wealth of experience in both child and adult learning to her role as co-founder, with Steve, her brother, of Our Family Culture. Most importantly, she is the proud parent of two adult children, Emily and Jacob.Dr. Michelle Pledger is the Founder of Living for Liberation and Director of Liberation at the High Tech High Graduate School of Education, where she leads work at the intersection of equity, community, and student-centered learning. A nationally recognized educator, author, and freedom facilitator, Michelle has spent her career helping schools and systems reimagine learning as a liberatory act. She also serves on the advisory board for Our Family Culture, and knows Steve and Nancy well. She wrote the following just for this episode: Steve Shapiro is one of the most humble, helpful, human-centered people I have ever met. We first met during a podcast interview and became instant friends. He speaks truth in love and is intentional in his actions. More importantly, he has a heart for young people and their families. And all of that goodness must run in the family because his sister, Nancy is a treasure trove of empathy, humor and patience. And I trust anyone who is willing to Karaoke with me, no questions asked! I'm thrilled that the What School Could Be community will benefit from Steve and Nancy’s lived experience as educators, parents, and co-founders of Our Family Culture.Our episodes are edited by the peerless, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by the master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Raya Bidshahri, founder and CEO of School of Humanity, is reshaping education into an engaging, project-based experience. She shares insights on a school day without bells or rigid schedules, where students worldwide collaborate on real challenges. The conversation highlights the importance of curiosity, mentorship, and personal agency in learning. Raya also reflects on the transformative role of educators in an era of AI, advocating for holistic assessments over traditional exams to cultivate essential skills for a sustainable future.

No joke, listeners—today’s guest, Erin O’Reilly, grew up in Missoula, Montana and attended Mount Jumbo Elementary, Rattlesnake Middle, and Hellgate High. Hashtag best school names, ever. And now, full circle, Erin is shaping the future of education from right there in the heart of Big Sky Country. At the University of Montana Erin is an Adjunct Assistant Professor in the Department of Teaching and Learning where she prepares preservice teachers through courses like Ethics and Policy Issues, Educational Psychology, Social Studies Methods, and field experience seminars. She is also an Instructor for the Office of Student Success and TRiO teaching courses like You at UM - First Year seminar and College and Career Success, supporting students transitioning into college and leaving with their degree.She’s also a doctoral candidate pursuing her doctorate in Teaching and Learning.What brought Erin to this podcast, though, is her growing body of work around teaching in teams—a practice she’s researching, writing about, and living through a book she co-authored titled “team ED”. She’s posing powerful questions about how collaborative teaching models can strengthen schools, support teachers, and—maybe—keep more of them in the profession, which, by the way, will be the subject of her dissertation. In the classroom, Erin mentors and supports future educators, helping them prepare not just for their first field placement, but for the real, messy, beautiful work of teaching. Her vision is bold, meaning learning that is inclusive, personalized, and rooted in community. She’s helping to build ecosystems where innovation, equity, and shared practice can thrive.In preparing for this conversation, I read through several letters written on Erin’s behalf. One described her as “a reliable colleague known for her focus on preparing strong and adaptable classroom teachers.” Another spoke to “the creativity she pours into her preparation,” her ability to “create thoughtful and caring learning environments while also adhering to rigorous goals,” and her work to “address individual differences and reach diverse learners.” Another letter called out the “virtual library” she built for her students—complete with a personal avatar and curated DEI-aligned resources—as a reflection of her thoughtful innovation. Another letter noted, simply and powerfully: “She cares deeply about making the world a better place through education.” But the line that lingered with me was this: “She is highly professional in all her endeavors, and her work is invaluable to our department.” High praise indeed. Nick Salmon, one of Erin’s co-authors wrote the following for this episode: “When I first met Erin ten years ago, I knew she saw the future of learning differently. In a room of men talking about the bureaucracy of school, Erin was the only woman talking about the integration of technology, resilience, and integrated learning experiences. That first encounter led to collaborating on the educational vision of a small school, and then our article on furniture whispering. When the opportunity to create the book teamED emerged, Erin O’Reilly and Mar Cano were the obvious co-authors.” And finally there was this—from one of Erin’s students:“You’ve truly been an inspiration in my life and helped me feel human and worthy when I didn’t. I’ve had more than one bump in my journey to become a teacher, and all of the understanding, warm welcomes, and support helped me more than you know.”Our episodes are edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Listeners, buckle up. You’re about to meet a Virginia public school superintendent whose mother referred to him as Tom Sawyer, and for good reason. Dr. Jason Van Heukelum has been rallying people around bold visions since his earliest days in Rochester, New York. We can only imagine him convincing friends to join some backyard adventure, or today, getting entire communities to reimagine high school. Jason is someone who knows how to design and build—and bring others with him.He’s also the kind of educator, coach, guide and mentor who sees transformation not as a someday ideal, but as a here-and-now imperative. His 27-year journey includes teaching math, coaching sports, leading middle and high schools, and directing an American international school in La Paz, Bolivia. He brings deep systems experience, from classroom to central office, and a rock-solid belief that the secret to great schools lies in pairing high expectations with a deep connection to community, where so much of learning happens.Today, he’s the superintendent of Winchester Public Schools in Virginia and the driving force behind something extraordinary: the Emil and Grace Shihadeh Innovation Center, a cathedral to possibility and purpose that redefines what high school could be. No bells. Just young people walking through doors into real-world learning and a buffet of multiple choices.But before we get there, we’re heading to Algonquin, Canada, where a young Jason portaged a canoe across miles of wilderness. We’ll linger in Ecclesiastes, the Old Testament book that moves him, even on the hardest days, to rejoice in the work and find meaning in the mystery. We’ll talk about "The Speed of Trust," why relationships drive change, and what Jason means when he says, “The most important lessons we learn cannot be measured by standardized tests.” We’ll dive into the Shihadeh Center, his strategic vision for Winchester, and how his grad school capstone is becoming real through collaborative, school-based services.We’ll explore cathedral thinking, the future of public education, and the courage it takes to build innovation that lasts. And in the end, we’ll honor the wisdom of a mentor named Penny Hedrick, whose support Jason carries with him every day. To close these show notes I’ll quote from a letter written on Jason’s behalf: “The best leaders make everyone around them better. The best leaders improve the organization they lead, cultivate passionate and loyal followers who believe in their vision, and pave the way for future leaders to carry on their work when they are gone. Jason Van Heukelum is one of the best leaders I have had the opportunity to work with.”Our episodes are edited by the talented audio engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Crystal Clark is a passionate and dedicated educator based in Kemmerer, Wyoming, with over two decades of experience in early childhood and elementary education. Currently serving as both a K–6 Instructional Facilitator and teacher in Lincoln County School District 1, she is a dynamic leader who thrives at the intersection of curriculum development, instructional coaching, and educator support. Crystal is deeply committed to hands-on, project-based learning and has played key roles in the RIDE initiative, the Rural Teacher Corps Program, and her district’s PLC and Building Leadership Teams. RIDE PD is supported by 2Revolutions. Crystal's work is rooted in meaningful collaboration, whether she’s mentoring new teachers, leading curriculum alignment efforts, or helping educators analyze data to drive classroom practice. Having received multiple professional educator certifications, she brings a research-informed approach to literacy and learning. Above all, she is known for cultivating warm, supportive environments where both students and teachers can thrive.And today, we’re going to stretch this story out across time and place—from Crystal’s childhood in a Wyoming town of 3,000 to her leadership in one of the state’s most ambitious education innovation efforts. Crystal and I talk about how the way we teach math can unintentionally create a sorting system, and why Crystal believes love of math starts in the earliest grades. We’ll explore what it truly means to coach teachers, how her deep roots in the Kemmerer community shape her impact, and why working side-by-side with educators—not above or outside—makes all the difference. Crystal will share how a single student helped define her “why,” and we’ll get a window into her vision for what Wyoming’s students could become when we remove barriers and build systems around relationships. You’ll also hear about a statewide showcase that puts hope on full display. You’ll hear about a children’s book manuscript Crystal wrote, a diamond-sized breakthrough in her professional practice, a new approach to SEL called BARR, and how it all comes back to mentorship and belonging. And when Crystal answers my final question with two names—Nikki Baldwin and her husband, Shane—you’ll understand exactly why I wanted to bring her voice to this podcast.What you are about to hear is not just the story of one educator—it is the story of what happens when roots run deep, when relationships guide the work, and when courage meets a commitment to community. Crystal Clark reminds us that transformation isn’t a theory. It’s a practice. It’s personal. And it’s happening—in Wyoming, and maybe, just maybe, in a school near you.The WSCB Podcast is edited by the talented Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is the pianist, Michael Sloan.

Jennifer Ahn is the executive director of Lead by Learning. She lives with her husband and children in northern California. The reason I asked Jennifer to be on this show is because I read an incredible book in 2024 titled Street Data. Carrie Wilson, the author of chapter 7 of Street Data and the former executive director of Lead by Learning wrote the following for this episode. “I remember over a decade ago, after Jennifer Ahn interviewed for a program associate position with us at Lead by Learning, I had this strong sense that there was nothing she couldn't do. So there are countless wonderful things to know about her. The first, which you are likely to detect in this conversation, is a combination of wicked intelligence and joyful spirit. There is a brilliant dynamism to her approach. She brings grounding, compassion, and clarity, which are much-needed qualities of leadership in these uncertain times. Showing up this way, she creates the conditions that allow for vulnerability, and also for an expansive sense of possibility and creativity. In working this way, Jennifer has made invaluable contributions to Lead by Learning and to public education. Jennifer designed and implemented the Lead by Learning Certificate Program, she built robust partnerships with Social and Emotional Learning departments and Expanded Learning teams, she pioneered Lead by Learning’s work with the Chicago Public Schools Fund, she created Lead by Learning’s Anti-racist Affinity Networks, and she developed a dynamic team of program leaders who are skilled at creating spaces that hold the complexity of what it means to lead, teach, and learn together. I am forever grateful for the way Jennifer continues to lead and develop Lead by Learning.” As you prepare to dive into this conversation, listeners, ask yourself if the true revolution in education isn’t happening in classrooms—but in the minds and hearts of the educators themselves. What if the way forward isn’t more training, more compliance, or more performance metrics—but a profound act of unlearning, re-seeing, and reconnecting? Jennifer Ahn believes that professional learning should be more than a box to check. For her, it’s about mending and reinforcing—yes, like sashiko stitching, which she is learning—and about letting art, dance, and story shape our understanding of what it means to grow, together. Most of all, Jennifer sees the deep value in being willing to be disturbed. Finally, listeners, Jennifer Ahn wrote the following words in an online article she shared with me: “In Braiding Sweetgrass, Robin Wall Kimmerer writes that “It’s such a simple thing but we all know the power of gratitude to incite a cycle of reciprocity.” Ahn goes on to say, When educators appreciate one another’s perspectives and they see how their collective perspectives lead to action, they feel empowered to spread it across their system.” As always, our episodes are edited by the amazing Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of pianist, Michael Sloan.

Emine Naz Can, a Turkish university student and founder of Paridoc Academy, discusses her vision for reshaping education. She shares insights from her involvement in Nobel Navigators, a program that fosters global citizenship through collaboration. Emine emphasizes the need for educational systems that prioritize equity and emotional connection. The conversation touches on transformative travel, the impact of COVID-19 on learning, and the importance of embracing mistakes as part of the educational journey, all aimed at preparing students for real-world success.

Listeners, imagine a student who always loved school—not just for the grades or the gold stars, but for the challenge, the structure, the sense of accomplishment. A student who moved frequently as a kid, not worried about making friends, but determined to succeed academically. A student who “played school well,” but, looking back, remembers teachers more than lessons, relationships more than curriculum. That student was Rebecca Parks. Rebecca doesn’t just believe in education—she lives it. From a K-12 experience that set the stage for her passion to teach to the defining “failure moments” that forged her resilience in college, Rebecca’s journey has been one of learning, leading, and, most of all, reimagining what’s possible. And at the heart of her mission? A bold idea: that learning should be rooted in place, connected to the real world, and designed to spark curiosity and wonder. Her dissertation, The Impact of a Place-Based Environment on Elementary Students, is a call to action. It examines the power of place-based learning, where students don’t just sit at desks but engage with the world around them. She explored the country’s most innovative schools—Teton Science Schools in Wyoming, the Zoo Academy in Nebraska, Missouri’s WOLF Academy and many more—places where learning is hands-on, immersive, and deeply connected to the community. But she didn’t stop at research. As principal of Southview Elementary in southern Missouri, Rebecca led a school that became a state-recognized model for collaboration and professional learning. And in 2019, she took her vision even further, launching LENS—Learning and Exploring through Nature and Science—a groundbreaking school within a school, where a select group of third and fourth graders engaged in a non-traditional, science, nature-focused and archeology oriented curriculum while still meeting state standards. Her story is about breaking free from the factory model of education, embracing curiosity, and fostering a culture of learning that is real, meaningful, and alive. Today, we step into that story with her. So get ready; this is more than a conversation. It’s an invitation to rethink what’s possible in education. An invitation to consider what school could be, and what could be school. As always our episodes are edited by sound engineer, Evan Kurohara. Our theme music comes from the catalog of master pianist, Michael Sloan.

Imagine a school, not just built with bricks and mortar, but with hope. A place where students don’t just learn—they lead. A space where innovation isn’t a buzzword—it’s the foundation of every single day. Today on the What School Could Be Podcast, we step into the future of education with two visionary leaders who happen to live and work in the Great State of Rhode Island: Bryan Byerlee and Heather Breton. Heather grew up in Rhode Island, raised by a village—her grandparents, her teachers, and a community that shaped her into the educator she is today. She’s a believer in the power of connections, curiosity, and personalization—because no two students should or will ever walk the same path. Currently she is the principal at Rhodes Elementary in Rhode Island’s Cranston Public Schools. Bryan, also a Rhode Island native, found inspiration in the relationships he built while in school and on his life’s journey. I ask him to reflect on how hope, the state motto of Rhode Island and not just an abstract idea, is built from relationships, from moving at the speed of trust in a school culture where every voice matters. Bryan has been and continues to be the principal at Garden City Elementary, which is largely the focus of this episode. Together, they stand at the heart of Garden City Elementary, a groundbreaking school designed by Fielding International not just for students, but with the entire Garden City community. Imagine a place where learning spaces flex and shift, where nature meets design, and where education is reimagined through the lens of choice, autonomy, and well-being. In this episode, we’ll talk about what it means to design a school around students instead of fitting students into a school. We’ll explore the discomfort of change, the thrill of transformation, and the small, human moments that create lasting impact. We will address questions such as: How do learning environments contribute to deeper and collaborative learning? What does it look like when kids take charge of their own learning journeys? And how can the physical spaces we build today shape the communities of tomorrow? And if you think this episode is just about one school, think again. This conversation is about the future of education itself. Nathan Strenge, the Senior Learning Designer at Fielding International wrote the following for this episode: “I recommended Bryan and Heather for the What School Could Be Podcast because of their remarkable leadership during the launch of Garden City School. They embraced learner-centered teaching, empowering others to transform practices and shift from isolated classrooms to collaborative environments where student agency and joy flourish. Their lived experience exemplifies the heart of what school could be." So fasten your seatbelts, listeners; here is my conversation with Heather Breton and Bryan Byerlee. The show's audio is engineered by Evan Kurohara. Our theme music is provided by pianist, Michael Sloan.