Sunday School Dropouts

In the season two finale of the Sunday School Dropouts podcast, Andrew and Laura recap their experiences and favorite episodes from the past season. They share personal anecdotes about the impact of high control religion on finances, trauma-informed therapy, and purity culture.Laura and Andrew highlight significant episodes such as their conversation with Jo Luehmann about financial trauma and Angela Denker on American boyhood and radicalization. The hosts also discuss their summer plans, which include writing projects and potential future topics for the next season. The episode ends with a nod to future explorations of purity culture in the upcoming season.This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  kevincrowe.co

This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you didn’t, you’re sure to be familiar with Joshua Harris, author of the wildly popular Christian dating, ahem, courting, book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He’s here to share with us about his time inside of high control religion, what opened his eyes to the unhealthy dynamics inside the church and his process of healing after leaving. It’s an episode that all of our younger selves never saw coming and definitely one you won’t want to miss! This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

What are Adverse Religious Experiences (AREs) and spiritual abuse? Aren’t they the same thing as religious trauma? Join Andrew and Laura on this week’s episode to discuss AREs, spiritual abuse, dynamics of power and control, how this relates to fundamentalism and how all of this…isn’t religious trauma? You heard us correctly!  Andrew and Laura discuss all of this AND how these things can result in religious trauma on this episode of Sunday School Dropouts!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe

In this episode, Laura and Andrew engage in a lively discussion with Janice Lagata about her experiences growing up in evangelicalism, her time at Hillsong College, and the importance of literature and financial therapy. They explore themes of banned books, free speech, and the influence of worship music on personal faith. The conversation is rich with insights and personal anecdotes, making it a compelling listen for anyone interested in the intersections of faith, culture, and personal growth.In this conversation, Janice Lagata shares her journey from moving to New York and joining Hillsong to her struggles with church culture, identity, and the impact of purity culture. She reflects on her experiences within a male-dominated evangelical space, the expectations placed on women, and the burden of not having a personal testimony. Janice discusses her eventual departure from Hillsong, seeking healthier communities, and the complexities of serving in church environments that demand much while often perpetuating shame. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the complexities of faith, race, and the intersections of capitalism and evangelicalism.They explore the trials of personal transformation, the cultural discrepancies faced by people of color in faith communities, and the problematic nature of church planting. The discussion also highlights the spiritual capitalism inherent in evangelicalism and the stagnation observed in deconstruction spaces, ultimately questioning the authenticity of new leadership dynamics. In this conversation, Laura Anderson and Janice Lagata explore the complexities of leaving evangelicalism, addressing themes such as embodied fundamentalism, the impact of capitalism, the challenges of grifting, and the role of privilege in ex-vangelical spaces. They emphasize the importance of personal responsibility, community, and self-trust in the deconstruction journey, while also recognizing the need for diverse voices and perspectives in these discussions.To connect with Janice, check out her website: https://janicelagata.com/ –from there you can join her Patreon, Substack, and hear about the other cool projects and offerings she has!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at kevincrowe.co

Jo Luehmann shares her journey from being a pastor to deconstructing her faith, focusing on the financial challenges and mindsets that shaped her path. The episode also explores strategies for overcoming financial anxiety and reclaiming autonomy after leaving high-control religious settings.Resources Mentioned:Psychology of Money by Morgan HouselYour First Million by Arlan HamiltonYour Journey to Financial Freedom by Jamila SouffrantKeeping Finance Personal by Ellyse FulmoreWe should all be millionaires Rachel RodgersThe Art of Thinking Clearly by Rolf Debelli Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel KahnemenTo follow Jo’s work: @joleuhmann across all platforms!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

In this episode of the Sunday School Dropouts podcast, Angela Denker joins Andrew to discuss her new book, 'Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood'. Reverend Denker explores themes of masculinity, gender narratives, and the influence of culture and church on boys and men. Highlighting the shifting political landscape, she emphasizes the impact of figures like Elon Musk and the ways social media algorithms contribute to radicalization.They touch upon the role of community in countering harmful narratives and supporting healthy identities in boys. They also reflect on the need to balance holding harmful figures accountable while providing compassion and support on a grassroots level.Angela’s Substack: https://angeladenker.substack.comThis podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at www.kevincrowe.co

This week on Sunday School Dropouts, we're joined by author Sarah Henn Hayward for an honest, insightful conversation about her journey from devout Christianity to agnostic atheism.Sarah, author of Giving Up God, opens up about her upbringing in the Evangelical Free Church and the slow, freeing path of deconstruction that followed. She reflects on purity culture, youth group experiences, and the internal conflicts that led her to start questioning her faith.We also talk about what it’s like to navigate relationships—especially marriage—when belief systems diverge. Sarah shares how she’s held onto values like love, humility, and generosity, even as her theology shifted. She offers a refreshing take on parenting, spirituality, and staying connected to a sense of wonder outside of religion.Learn more about Sarah and her work at sarahhennhayward.comOn Instagram she is: @shaywardwrites Buy Sarah’s book, “Giving Up God” anywhere where books are available! This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at www.kevincrowe.co

The holidays are over and we are back into our purity culture mini-series! This month we are talking about purity culture and it’s impact on individuals who grew up male in this system. We are thrilled to have Dr. Bradley Onishi on the podcast today as our professional who has done research and client-facing work in this area as well as being a purity culture poster boy himself. Join Brad and Laura as they discuss the unique impacts of purity culture on men, shame, the expectations of being a “Godly man” and what happens when you don’t measure up to that, as well as the importance of men learning how to step out of of the prescribed roles and mentality that both purity culture and patriarchy prop up. Resources Mentioned: Fair Play (book and game) by Eve Rodsky Mild at Heart podcast series (can be found on the website below and using “Mild” in the search bar)Guest: Brad OnishiWebsite: https://www.straightwhiteamericanjesus.comInstagram/TT: @straightwhitejc This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

We are thrilled to have with us today Dr. Tina Schermer Seller who is an author, researcher, professor, and psychotherapist specializing in the impacts of purity culture, shame resilience, gender, and sexuality. In this episode, Dr. Tina shares her research and how she came to realize the psychological and physiological impact of purity culture and how that shaped the direction of her work with clients, students, and her writing. In the episode, Dr. Tina shares an incredible definition of sexual shame (see below) that can help us understand the felt sense experience of purity culture! But before we talk to Dr. Tina, we have a vocabulary lesson on what are porn and sex addictions really and why religion is so quick to diagnoses people with them, and we’ll also be taking some prayer requests! This is an episode you won’t want to miss!Dr. Tina’s definition of sexual shame (taken from the dissertation of Noel Clarke): Sexual shame is a visceral feeling of humiliation and disgust toward one’s own body and identity as a sexual being and a belief of being abnormal, inferior and unworthy. this feeling can be internalized but also manifests in interpersonal relationships having a negative impact on trust, communication, and physical and emotional intimacy. Sexual shame develops across the lifespan in interactions with interpersonal relationships, one’s culture and society, and subsequent critical self-appraisal (a continuous feedback loop). There is also a fear and uncertainty related to one’s power or right to make decisions, including safety decisions, related to sexual encounters, along with an internalized judgement toward one’s own sexual desire. You can find Dr. Tina at: Instagram: @drtinashameless  Facebook: @TinaSSellers Twitter: @TinaSSellersWebsite: https://www.tinaschermersellers.comPsychedelic assisted psychotherapy: www.Inannarising.org Dr. Tina’s Books:Sex, God, and the Conservative ChurchShameless Parenting – Everything You Need to Raise Shame-free, Confident, Kids and Heal Your Shame TooThis podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

In this episode of Sunday School Dropouts, Andrew Pledger opens up about his journey growing up in the Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) movement and the lasting effects of religious trauma on his mental health, sexuality, and sense of identity. He shares his experiences navigating legalism, spiritual abuse, and the pressure to conform, including his time at Bob Jones University and the emotional toll of leaving such a high-control environment. Andrew discusses the coping mechanisms he developed, such as dissociation, and how creativity, storytelling, and community have played a vital role in his healing. Through vulnerability and reflection, he offers encouragement to others seeking freedom, self-acceptance, and authentic love beyond oppressive systems.This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co