Sunday School Dropouts

This week, Andrew and Laura welcome the brilliant and hilarious Katherine Spearing—author, practitioner, and founder of Tears of Eden—to talk about everyone’s favorite church obsession: purity culture. You know, that special brand of shame that told you your worth was tied to your virginity and your shoulders were a stumbling block. Katherine unpacks how that messaging messed with an entire generation’s view of sex, self-worth, and spirituality—and how she’s helping survivors heal from it.They dive into Katherine’s upcoming book, A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts, the “stay-at-home daughter” movement, and the ways spiritual abuse hides in plain sight inside churches that claim to protect you. From purity rings to trauma responses, it’s a wild ride through the weird intersections of religion, control, and patriarchy.If you’ve ever been told your body was a “temple” but weren’t allowed to use the front door, this episode’s for you.CTRR Practitioner Bio pageSocial Media: IG: @katherinespearing, @tearsofedenofficial; Email list at Katherinespearing.com, Tears of Eden's email list tearsofeden.orgBook: A Thousand Tiny Paper Cuts: The Subtle, Insidious Nature of Spiritual Abuse and Life on the Other Side This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call hereFollow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so hereHosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

Season 3 of Sunday School Dropouts is here, and this time it’s all about purity culture—its origins, its lasting impact, and the process of healing from it. After a summer break, the hosts return ready to unpack one of the most pervasive and misunderstood aspects of modern religion. This season features a range of guests, including therapists, coaches, and individuals from Catholic, Mormon, and evangelical backgrounds, as well as voices from the LGBTQ+ and wellness communities. Together, they explore how purity culture shapes identity, sexuality, and self-worth, and what it means to unlearn those lessons without losing one’s faith entirely.Listeners are invited to be part of the conversation by sharing their stories or questions at sundayschooldropoutspod.com or via Instagram DMs—submissions can be anonymous and may even be featured in upcoming episodes. Through personal stories, the hosts and listeners reflect on purity rings, the “Virgin Lip Club,” and the lifelong effects of purity pledges. Therapists and guests discuss how purity culture can manifest as sexual pain, shame, or disconnection from one’s own body, and what healing looks like through embodied awareness and reclaiming autonomy.Resources Mentioned:My Grandmother’s Hands by Resmaa Menakem – Healing racialized trauma through the bodyDamaged Goods by Diana E. Anderson – Purity culture and liberatory theologyThe Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk – Understanding trauma and the bodyThis podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything To begin working with Andrew as a coach, schedule your FREE inquiry call hereFollow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com To work with Laura as a coach, therapist, consultant, or to inquire about other services, you can do so hereHosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing by Kevin Crowe and can be found at kevincrowe.co

In the season two finale of the Sunday School Dropouts podcast, Andrew and Laura recap their experiences and favorite episodes from the past season. They share personal anecdotes about the impact of high control religion on finances, trauma-informed therapy, and purity culture.Laura and Andrew highlight significant episodes such as their conversation with Jo Luehmann about financial trauma and Angela Denker on American boyhood and radicalization. The hosts also discuss their summer plans, which include writing projects and potential future topics for the next season. The episode ends with a nod to future explorations of purity culture in the upcoming season.This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  kevincrowe.co

This week we will be talking to a notorious former pastor about their experience growing up inside high control religion, becoming a poster child for purity culture, being set up to take over for a large church and ultimately giving it all up, deconstructing his faith and leaving the church. If you grew up in evangelicalism, and likely even if you didn’t, you’re sure to be familiar with Joshua Harris, author of the wildly popular Christian dating, ahem, courting, book, I Kissed Dating Goodbye. He’s here to share with us about his time inside of high control religion, what opened his eyes to the unhealthy dynamics inside the church and his process of healing after leaving. It’s an episode that all of our younger selves never saw coming and definitely one you won’t want to miss! This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

What are Adverse Religious Experiences (AREs) and spiritual abuse? Aren’t they the same thing as religious trauma? Join Andrew and Laura on this week’s episode to discuss AREs, spiritual abuse, dynamics of power and control, how this relates to fundamentalism and how all of this…isn’t religious trauma? You heard us correctly!  Andrew and Laura discuss all of this AND how these things can result in religious trauma on this episode of Sunday School Dropouts!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe

In this episode, Laura and Andrew engage in a lively discussion with Janice Lagata about her experiences growing up in evangelicalism, her time at Hillsong College, and the importance of literature and financial therapy. They explore themes of banned books, free speech, and the influence of worship music on personal faith. The conversation is rich with insights and personal anecdotes, making it a compelling listen for anyone interested in the intersections of faith, culture, and personal growth.In this conversation, Janice Lagata shares her journey from moving to New York and joining Hillsong to her struggles with church culture, identity, and the impact of purity culture. She reflects on her experiences within a male-dominated evangelical space, the expectations placed on women, and the burden of not having a personal testimony. Janice discusses her eventual departure from Hillsong, seeking healthier communities, and the complexities of serving in church environments that demand much while often perpetuating shame. In this conversation, the speakers delve into the complexities of faith, race, and the intersections of capitalism and evangelicalism.They explore the trials of personal transformation, the cultural discrepancies faced by people of color in faith communities, and the problematic nature of church planting. The discussion also highlights the spiritual capitalism inherent in evangelicalism and the stagnation observed in deconstruction spaces, ultimately questioning the authenticity of new leadership dynamics. In this conversation, Laura Anderson and Janice Lagata explore the complexities of leaving evangelicalism, addressing themes such as embodied fundamentalism, the impact of capitalism, the challenges of grifting, and the role of privilege in ex-vangelical spaces. They emphasize the importance of personal responsibility, community, and self-trust in the deconstruction journey, while also recognizing the need for diverse voices and perspectives in these discussions.To connect with Janice, check out her website: https://janicelagata.com/ –from there you can join her Patreon, Substack, and hear about the other cool projects and offerings she has!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at kevincrowe.co

Jo Luehmann shares her journey from being a pastor to deconstructing her faith, focusing on the financial challenges and mindsets that shaped her path. The episode also explores strategies for overcoming financial anxiety and reclaiming autonomy after leaving high-control religious settings.Resources Mentioned:Psychology of Money by Morgan HouselYour First Million by Arlan HamiltonYour Journey to Financial Freedom by Jamila SouffrantKeeping Finance Personal by Ellyse FulmoreWe should all be millionaires Rachel RodgersThe Art of Thinking Clearly by Rolf Debelli Thinking Fast and Slow by Daniel KahnemenTo follow Jo’s work: @joleuhmann across all platforms!This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co

In this episode of the Sunday School Dropouts podcast, Angela Denker joins Andrew to discuss her new book, 'Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood'. Reverend Denker explores themes of masculinity, gender narratives, and the influence of culture and church on boys and men. Highlighting the shifting political landscape, she emphasizes the impact of figures like Elon Musk and the ways social media algorithms contribute to radicalization.They touch upon the role of community in countering harmful narratives and supporting healthy identities in boys. They also reflect on the need to balance holding harmful figures accountable while providing compassion and support on a grassroots level.Angela’s Substack: https://angeladenker.substack.comThis podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at www.kevincrowe.co

This week on Sunday School Dropouts, we're joined by author Sarah Henn Hayward for an honest, insightful conversation about her journey from devout Christianity to agnostic atheism.Sarah, author of Giving Up God, opens up about her upbringing in the Evangelical Free Church and the slow, freeing path of deconstruction that followed. She reflects on purity culture, youth group experiences, and the internal conflicts that led her to start questioning her faith.We also talk about what it’s like to navigate relationships—especially marriage—when belief systems diverge. Sarah shares how she’s held onto values like love, humility, and generosity, even as her theology shifted. She offers a refreshing take on parenting, spirituality, and staying connected to a sense of wonder outside of religion.Learn more about Sarah and her work at sarahhennhayward.comOn Instagram she is: @shaywardwrites Buy Sarah’s book, “Giving Up God” anywhere where books are available! This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at www.kevincrowe.co

The holidays are over and we are back into our purity culture mini-series! This month we are talking about purity culture and it’s impact on individuals who grew up male in this system. We are thrilled to have Dr. Bradley Onishi on the podcast today as our professional who has done research and client-facing work in this area as well as being a purity culture poster boy himself. Join Brad and Laura as they discuss the unique impacts of purity culture on men, shame, the expectations of being a “Godly man” and what happens when you don’t measure up to that, as well as the importance of men learning how to step out of of the prescribed roles and mentality that both purity culture and patriarchy prop up. Resources Mentioned: Fair Play (book and game) by Eve Rodsky Mild at Heart podcast series (can be found on the website below and using “Mild” in the search bar)Guest: Brad OnishiWebsite: https://www.straightwhiteamericanjesus.comInstagram/TT: @straightwhitejc This podcast is brought to you by the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery: an online trauma coaching company whose practitioners are trauma informed and trauma trained to work with individuals, couples and families who have experienced high control religion, cults, and religious trauma. For more information on the support that CTRR provides, for resources–including courses, workshops, and more–head to traumaresolutionandrecovery.com or follow us on Instagram: @traumaresolutionandrecovery The views and opinions expressed by Sunday School Dropouts are those of the hosts and not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the Center for Trauma Resolution and Recovery. Any of the content provided by our guests, sponsors, authors, or bloggers are their own ideas and opinions.The Sunday School Dropouts podcast is not anti-religion but it is anti -harm, -power and control, -oppression and, -abuse and will speak to the harmful practices and messaging of fundamentalist groups. Follow Andrew on Instagram and TikTok @deconstruct_everything Follow Laura on Instagram and TikTok @drlauraeanderson or on her website: www.drlauraeanderson.com Hosts: Laura Anderson and Andrew KerbsMusic by Benjamin Faye Music @heytherebenji Editing and Production by Kevin Crowe and can be found at  www.kevincrowe.co