

New Books in Genocide Studies
Marshall Poe
This podcast is a channel on the New Books Network. The New Books Network is an academic audio library dedicated to public education. In each episode you will hear scholars discuss their recently published research with another expert in their field.
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Discover our 150+ channels and browse our 28,000+ episodes on our website: newbooksnetwork.com
Subscribe to our free weekly Substack newsletter to get informative, engaging content straight to your inbox: https://newbooksnetwork.substack.com/
Follow us on Instagram and Bluesky to learn about more our latest interviews: @newbooksnetworkSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies
Episodes
Mentioned books

Jul 18, 2014 • 1h 25min
Samuel Totten, “Genocide by Attrition: The Nuba Mountains of Sudan” (Transaction Publishers, 2012)
Most of the authors I’ve interviewed for this show have addressed episodes in the past, campaigns of mass violence that occurred long ago, often well-before the author was born.
Today’s show is different.
In his book Genocide by Attrition: The Nuba Mountains of Sudan (Transaction Publishers, 2012), Samuel Totten addresses the violence against the people of the Nuba Mountains of the Sudan. This violence was part of a broader civil war and unrest in the Sudan in the 1980s and 90s. Totten makes a convincing case that, in the Nuba, it reached a level reasonably labeled genocidal. To demonstrate this, Totten provides a succinct but thorough history of the conflict. But the heart of the book is a series of interviews with victims of the tragedy. Totten collected the interviews himself and uses them to demonstrate the nature and consequences of the conflict.
Our interview won’t stop with the book, however, for conflict has recently broken out again in the region. Scholars differ about how to label the new violence (Totten himself prefers to avoid calling the new fighting genocidal). But there’s no question many of the human tragedies of the 80s and 90s have reemerged. Totten has written extensively about this new conflict. We’ll use of one these articles, from the recent issue of Genocide Studies International, as the basis for our discussion of current events.
Totten has been active in the field of genocide studies since its inception and brings an enormous wealth of information and passion to the subject. I trust the interview will convey his commitment to his discipline and to the victims of the violence he studies.
Also. I talked with Sam this week and he tells me he’s just finished a major revision of the book we discussed in this interview, almost doubling its length. The second edition will presumably be out soon. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Jul 15, 2014 • 1h 17min
Michael Bryant, “Eyewitness to Genocide: The Operation Reinhard Death Camp Trials, 1955-1966” (University of Tennessee Press, 2014)
My marginal comment, recorded at the end of the chapter on the Belzec trial in Michael Bryant‘s fine new book Eyewitness to Genocide: The Operation Reinhard Death Camp Trials, 1955-1966 (University of Tennessee Press, 2014), is simple: “!!!!” Text speak, to be sure, but it conveys the surprise I felt.
One can ask many questions about the trials of the German guards and administrators of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka. Why did it take so long to put them on trial? How did the German public and government respond to the trials? What do the trials say about German memory of the Holocaust?
Bryant answers all of these questions thoughtfully and persuasively. But, the heart of his book is a close study of the prosecution of a few dozen German soldiers, most of whom clearly had dirty hands. He takes us step by step through the process of locating the accused and those who could testify against them, through the complexities of the German legal code, and through the testimony and eventual convictions. And he explains why many of the accused were convicted of lesser crimes, or not convicted at all.
Bryant, trained as both a lawyer and an historian, is uniquely qualified to lead us on this journey. He does so with the verve of someone writing in the true crime genre, integrating life stories of the accused and the courtroom strategies of their trials with a thoughtful analysis of the legal code and culture that shaped their fates.
By the time I finished the book, my initial response had turned into a reluctant understanding. I’m not sure what the right solution is to the problems of transitional justice. But Bryant makes it abundantly clear why these trials turned out in this way, however uncomfortable that might make us. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Jul 7, 2014 • 59min
Wendy Lower, “Hitler’s Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields” (Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2013)
It seems quite reasonable to wonder if there’s anything more to learn about the Holocaust. Scholars from a variety of disciplines have been researching and writing about the subject for decades. A simple search for “Holocaust” on Amazon turns up a stunning 27,642 results. How can there still be uncovered terrain?
Wendy Lower shows it is in fact possible to say new things about the Holocaust (to be fair, she’s following a handful of other scholars who have focused on gender and the Holocaust). Her questions are simple. What did the approximately 500,000 women who went East to live and work in the territories occupied by the German armies know about the killing of Jews (and other categories of victims)? To what degree did they participate in the killing? How did this experience affect them after the war?
Her answers are disturbing, to say the least. For Lower uncovers ample evidence that women both witnessed and participated in the so-called “Holocaust by Bullets” in Eastern Europe. The patterns of participation varied, as did their acknowledgement of their actions. But the evidence is undeniable that women played a significant role in facilitating the Final Solution.
Lower, along with people writing about Rwanda, about the frontiers of Australia and the United States, and a variety of other moments in time and space, illustrates our need to pay more attention to women and to gender in our study of mass violence. Hitler’s Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields(Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 2013), is an admirable contribution to the discussion, well-researched, well-written and emotionally compelling. I can’t think of a better place to start in examining these issues. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Jun 27, 2014 • 53min
Benjamin Lieberman, “Remaking Identities: God, Nation and Race in World History” (Rowman and Littlefield, 2013)
What do you say to someone who suggests that genocide is not just destructive, but constructive?
This is the basic theme of Benjamin Lieberman‘s excellent new book Remaking Identities: God, Nation and Race in World History (Rowman and Littlefield, 2013). The book surveys two thousand years of history to explain how people have used violence to reconstruct identities. This obviously involves death and destruction. But it also involves recasting the identities of survivors. It involves evangelism and religious conversion. It entails education and persuasion. It sometimes requires forced separation from one’s community and integration into a new community and a new way of viewing the world. In doing so, Lieberman reminds us, many perpetrators intended to create a new world, not just destroy an old one. It’s an important insight, one Lieberman explores through a variety of case studies ranging from the Islamic expansion of the 700s to the violence of the 20th century.
Lieberman was not content, however, to write just one book. At almost the same time, he published a textbook titled The Holocaust and Genocides in Europe (Bloomsbury Press, 2013). The book is a study in brevity and in the choices facing the author in compressing such a large topic into a couple of hundred pages. The result is an excellent text, well worth reading, whether as a college student or as an interested reader.
We managed to talk about both books in one regular-length interview. I trust you’ll enjoy the result. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Jun 3, 2014 • 1h 14min
Mark Levene, “The Crisis of Genocide” (Oxford University Press, 2014)
I imagine one of the greatest compliments an author of an historical monograph can receive is to hear that his or her book changed the way a subject is taught.
I will do just that after reading Mark Levene‘s new two volume work The Crisis of Genocide (2 Vols. Devastation: The European Rimlands, 1912-1938; Annihilation and The European Rimlands, 1938-1953) (Oxford University Press, 2014). These books, a continuation of Mark’s earlier volumes titled Genocide in the Age of the Nation State, offer a rich and thought-provoking analysis of the ways in which the changing expectations and culture of the international system interacted with local events and personalities to drive mass violence. The work is more analytical than narrative. It is complex and requires careful attention to argument and evidence. But it amply repays this effort with a reading of modern European history that made me rethink how I understood the period. I learned much from the book about the details of violence in Anatolia and the Balkans. But it was his broader treatment of the changing norms of international relations that really made me think hard.
Levene’s earlier volume established his work as a must-read for historians of genocide and mass violence. His new volumes deserve equal praise. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

May 24, 2014 • 57min
Susan Thomson, “Whispering Truth to Power” (University of Wisconsin Press, 2013)
This spring, I taught a class loosely called “The Holocaust through Primary Sources” to a small group of selected students. I started one class by asking them the deceptively simple question “When did the Holocaust end?” The first consensus answer was “1945.” After some discussion, the students changed their answer. The new consensus was simple. It hasn’t yet.
This came to mind when reading Susan Thomson‘s powerful new book Whispering Truth to Power: Everyday Resistance to Reconciliation in Postgenocide Rwanda (University of Wisconsin Press, 2013). While writing the book, Thomson talked at length with a variety of ‘ordinary’ people in Rwanda. Their stories remind us that recovery, both societal and personal, from the events of 1994, has been both halting and problematic. Her account, like that of Jennie Burnet, also draws our attention to the ways governments’ efforts to shape and reshape cultures of remembrance impact individuals decades after violence is over.
With historians and others paying more and more attention to the aftermaths of mass violence, Thomson’s book sheds light both on issues specific to Rwanda and more generally to the history of remembrance and reconciliation. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

May 11, 2014 • 1h 1min
Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz, “Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East” (Yale UP, 2014)
This book tells a remarkable and–to me at least–little known but very important story. In Nazis, Islamists, and the Making of the Modern Middle East(Yale UP, 2014), Barry Rubin and Wolfgang G. Schwanitz trace the many connections between Germany–Imperial and Nazi–and the Arab world. Their particular focus is on a fellow named Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem between from 1921 to 1948. Both Al-Husseini and, a bit later, Hitler inherited a project hatched by the German officials in World War I, namely, to start an Islamist Jihad against the Western Powers in the Middle East. The two found common cause in this project: al Husseini wanted the French and British out and Hitler wanted to Germany to dominate the region. But they were also united by another cause: eliminationist Jew-hatred.
Al-Husseini and Hitler worked together throughout the war to murder and plan the murder of as many Jews as they could get their hands on. After the war al-Husseini denied any connection with Hitler, yet he continued their common anti-Western, anti-Jewish project. Al-Husseini enlisted many former Nazis for just this purpose. In the late 1940s al-Husseini remained influential, not only among Palestinian Arabs, but widely in the Middle East. That influence, so Rubin and Schwanitz show, can be seen in the actions of many post-war Arab nationalist and Islamist leader–right down to today. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

May 3, 2014 • 55min
Richard Weikart, “Hitler’s Ethic: The Nazi Pursuit of Evolutionary Progress” (Palgrave MacMillan, 2011)
For many years now, historians have wondered whether Hitler had any sort of consistent ideology. His writings are rambling and confusing. His speeches are full of plain lies. His “table talk” reflects a wandering, impulsive mind distinguished by a remarkable disconnection from reality. There are obvious themes: strident German nationalism, radical racialism, vicious anti-semitism, and militarism. Do these themes add up to an internally consistent “worldview”?
Richard Weikart argues that they do. In his excellent book Hitler’s Ethic: The Nazi Pursuit of Evolutionary Progress (Palgrave MacMillan, 2011), Weickart points out that Hitler, like so many of his generation, was powerfully influenced by a particular reading of Darwin’s theory of evolution. By this interpretation, human “races” were seen as species and, as such, deemed to be in eternal struggle for life itself. “Nature,” according to these theorists (usually called “Social Darwinists”), selected the most fit races and destroyed the less fit. Weikart shows that Hitler held very fast to this idea, as can be seen both in his pronouncements and actions. He also shows that Hitler–in contrast to many other Social Darwinists–had no trouble leaping over the distinction between “is” and “ought.” According to the Fuhrer, the “fact” that the “races” were subject to evolutionary process meant that they should struggle with all their might. Here, might was ethically right by what Hitler believed was irrefutable “natural law.” It was a recipe for madness and, of course, immense tragedy. Listen in. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

May 1, 2014 • 38min
Donna-Lee Frieze, “Totally Unofficial: The Autobiography of Raphael Lemkin” (Yale UP, 2013)
It’s hard to overestimate the role of Raphael Lemkin in calling the world’s attention to the crime of genocide. But for decades his name languished, as scholars and the broader public devoted their time and attention to other people and other things.
In the past few years, this has changed. We now have a greater understanding of Lemkin’s role in pushing the UN to write and pass the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. Moreover, researchers have a newfound appreciation for the depth and insights of his research. Genocide scholars talk about their field experiencing a ‘return to Lemkin’
It seems an appropriate time, then, to reexamine Lemkin’s ideas and career. We’re doing so in a special, two-part series of interviews with scholars who have edited and published Lemkin’s writings. Earlier this month, I posted an interview with Steve Jacobs, who carefully edited and annotated an edition of Lemkin’s writings about the history and nature of genocide, simply titled Lemkin on Genocide.
This time, I talked with Donna-Lee Frieze, who has meticulously edited Lemkin’s unpublished autobiography Totally Unofficial: The Autobiography of Raphael Lemkin (Yale University Press, 2013). The book gives us a new appreciation for Lemkin’s work. It offers us a deeper insight into who he was and how he fit into his times. And it shows how his experiences shaped his lifelong crusade to create an framework within international law that would protect persecuted ethnic and religious groups.
One brief note about the sound. We taped this interview in what was late winter in Wichita. Bizarrely enough, New York that day was evidently much warmer than Wichita. Donna accordingly taped this interview sitting next to an open window. Occasionally, you can hear the passing traffic in the background. If you’re not in New York, consider this local color. If you are, feel free to brag that spring comes early in your town. You don’t get that chance often. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Apr 12, 2014 • 1h 1min
Steven L. Jacobs, “Lemkin on Genocide” (Lexington Books, 2012)
It’s hard to overestimate the role of Raphael Lemkin in calling the world’s attention to the crime of genocide. But for decades his name languished, as scholars and the broader public devoted their time and attention to other people and other things.
In the past few years, this has changed. We now have a greater understanding of Lemkin’s role in pushing the UN to write and pass the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide. Moreover, researchers have a newfound appreciation for the depth and insights of his research. Genocide scholars talk about their field experiencing a ‘return to Lemkin.’
It seems an appropriate time, then to reexamine Lemkin’s ideas and career. We’ll do so in a special two-part series of interviews with scholars who have edited and published Lemkin’s writings. Later this month, I’ll post an interview with Donna Lee Frieze, who has meticulously edited Lemkin’s unpublished autobiography, Totally Unofficial.
First, however, I’ll talk with Steven L. Jacobs. Steve recently published a carefully edited and annotated edition of Lemkin’s writings about the history and nature of genocide, simply titled Lemkin on Genocide (Lexington Books, 2012). This work was written during the 1940s, but never published. Through it, we gain a new appreciation for the depth of Lemkin’s theoretical understanding and the breadth of his research. In addition, reading Jacob’s book provides us a richer sense of how Lemkin fit into the ideological currents of his time. In editing this work, Steve has done a great service to all those interested in genocide. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies


