

New Books in Genocide Studies
Marshall Poe
This podcast is a channel on the New Books Network. The New Books Network is an academic audio library dedicated to public education. In each episode you will hear scholars discuss their recently published research with another expert in their field.
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Discover our 150+ channels and browse our 28,000+ episodes on our website: newbooksnetwork.com
Subscribe to our free weekly Substack newsletter to get informative, engaging content straight to your inbox: https://newbooksnetwork.substack.com/
Follow us on Instagram and Bluesky to learn about more our latest interviews: @newbooksnetworkSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies
Episodes
Mentioned books

Oct 26, 2017 • 57min
Christian Ingrao, “Believe and Destroy: Intellectuals in the SS War Machine” (Polity Press, 2015)
How did a generation of Germany’s best and brightest become radicalized? What convinced young intellectuals to join the SS and perpetrate genocide in pursuit of a racial utopia? Find out in our conversation with Christian Ingrao about his book Believe and Destroy: Intellectuals in the SS War Machine (Polity Press, 2015). Christian traces the experiences of the war youth generation from defining events in childhood, through their student activism, into the Reich Security Main Office, and abroad where they could finally realize their ideas. The resulting portrait reveals how a generation of intellectuals came to believe, and how those beliefs led them to destroy.
Christian Ingrao is the former director of the Institute of Contemporary History (IHTP) and their current director of research. He teaches at the Catholic University of the West (Angers). His most recent book La promesse de l’Est : Esperance nazie et genocide, 1939-1943 (Le Seuil, 2016) explores Nazi dreams of victory and visions of the Thousand Year Reich.
Ryan Stackhouse is a historian of Europe who specializes in modern Germany and political policing under dictatorship. His debut chapter in Interrogation in War and Conflict suggested that terror remains overstated in our understanding of routine investigation practices in Nazi Germany. Ryan’s research exploring Gestapo enforcement practices toward different social groups is nearing completion under the working title Policing Hitler’s Critics. He also cohosts the Third Reich History Podcast. He tweets @Staxomatix and can be reached at john.ryan.stackhouse@gmail.com.
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Oct 19, 2017 • 26min
Walter Scheidel, “The Great Leveler: Violence and the History of Inequality” (Princeton UP, 2017)
In 2017 half of the world’s wealth belongs to the top 1% of the population. In his new book, The Great Leveler Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century (Princeton University Press, 2017), Walter Scheidel explores economic inequality and sets forth the provocative thesis that only violence and catastrophes have truly reduced it throughout history. Scheidel delves in what he labels as the “Four Horsemen” of leveling—mass-mobilization warfare, transformative revolutions, state collapse, and catastrophic plagues—and how they have persisted in history and proved the most efficient ways in reducing what seems to be an inevitable trend in human history. Walter Scheidel teaches at Stanford University.
The interview is part of a series produced by the Crisis, Extremes, and Apocalypse Research Network and the New Books Network. Audrey Borowski is a historian of ideas and a doctoral researcher at the University of Oxford. She is also the founder and lead convener of the ‘Crisis, extremes and Apocalypse’ Research Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Oct 11, 2017 • 55min
Alexander Prusin, “Serbia under the Swastika: A World War II Occupation” (U. Illinois Press, 2017)
In Serbia under the Swastika: A World War II Occupation (University of Illinois Press, 2017), Alexander Prusin delineates the Nazi occupation of Yugoslavia during World War II. He starts from the medium-term background, reaching back to the unification of Yugoslavia, and covers both the chronological process and its wide thematic breadth, with issues ranging from collaborationism to resistance. The book is important, therefore, both for historians of Yugoslavia and Southeastern Europe and to historians of World War II and the Holocaust in general.
Orel Beilinson is a historian of nineteenth- and twentieth-century Eastern Europe, particularly the Russian Empire, Soviet Union and Yugoslavia. His research interests include the encounter of communism, religion, and modernity; the social history of law and religion under communism; and the comparative history of communism. He can be reached at orelb@mail.tau.ac.il.
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Sep 20, 2017 • 39min
Henri Lustiger-Thaler and Habbo Knoch, eds., “Witnessing Unbound: Holocaust Representation and the Origins of Memory” (Wayne State UP, 2017)
Witnessing Unbound: Holocaust Representation and the Origins of Memory (Wayne State University Press, 2017) is a collection of essays and interviews that offer fresh insight on the last of the primary witnesses to the Holocaust. The book interrogates the stylization of the narrative account of the primary witness, and it offers significant new scholarship on the Halakhic witness — Orthodox Jewish prisoners of German concentration camps, who attempted to confront their experience through the framework of Halakhic thought and praxis. The book also provides analysis of the different methods and aims of collecting witness testimony between the Soviet-dominated East and the Allies of the West. Through the testimony of survivors of and witnesses to the atrocities, and the work of those who seek them out, the book unveils new insights at a critical moment in the documentation and commemoration of the Holocaust. David Gottlieb interviews co-author and co-editor Henri Lustiger-Thaler, professor of cultural sociology at Ramapo College of New Jersey.
David Gottlieb is a PhD Candidate in the History of Judaism at the University of Chicago Divinity School. His research focuses on interpretations of the Binding of Isaac and the formation of Jewish cultural memory. He can be reached at davidg1@uchicago.edu.
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Aug 25, 2017 • 1h 15min
Max Bergholz, “Violence as a Generative Force: Identity, Nationalism and Memory in a Balkan Community” (Cornell UP, 2016)
People study atrocities and mass violence for a variety of reasons. When asked, many offer thoughtful intellectual or political explanations for their choice. But in truth, the field is a practical response to a cry of the heart. How, people ask, how can people do this to one another? How can men and women do such terrible things? How can they do them to people they know?
Max Bergholz asks these questions systematically in his terrific new book Violence as a Generative Force: Identity, Nationalism and Memory in a Balkan Community (Cornell University Press, 2016). The book is a careful, detailed description of the violence that exploded in a rural community in Croatia in 1941. Bergholz researched the book for a decade, poring through records from local archives and libraries all across the region. This allows Bergholz, Associate Professor of History at Concordia University in Montreal, to answer questions about the history of ethnicity in the region, about the intersection of local agency and national leadership, and about the political impact of the memory of this violence.
But all of this is subsidiary to the burning question at the heart of the book: why did people who had known each other for years suddenly fall upon each other with such violence? The book thus enters into a discussion with Scott Straus, Christopher Browning, James Waller and others. But Bergholz brings a distinctively historical perspective to the discussion. He doesn’t dismiss psychological analysis. Rather, he reminds us that context and situation matters enormously.
The book is an enormously important contribution to the study of mass violence. Anyone interested in why neighbors kill neighbors will have to wrestle with his conclusions. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Aug 6, 2017 • 1h 3min
Michael Barnett, “Eyewitness to a Genocide: The United Nations and Rwanda” (Cornell UP, 2016)
This podcast marks the beginning of a new occasional series of podcasts about the genocide in Rwanda. In the next few months we’ll hear from Timothy Longman, Sara Brown, Erin Jessee and others.
We start with Michael Barnett. Barnett has recently published a new edition of his seminal text Eyewitness to a Genocide: The United Nations and Rwanda (Cornell University Press, 2016). Barnett was a member of the US mission to the UN (on leave from his academic career for a year) and thus a first hand observer of the UN during the genocide. His book is a careful survey of the forces that led to UN inaction in the spring and early summer of 1994. It is simultaneously a history, an analysis of institutional culture, and a disquisition on moral responsibility. Its position in the literature on Rwanda was well-earned from the moment it was first published.
In this new edition, Barnett adds an afterward exploring how what we’ve learned since 2002 has reshaped what we know about and how we evaluate the actions and decisions of policy makers. Here he sharpens his critique of the UN Secretariat, evaluates the historiography of the genocide, and lays out future areas of research.
Barnett is simultaneously funny, thoughtful and introspective. We mostly talk about issues emerging from his books. But we also get into a broader discussion of the impact of Rwanda on his life and of how he experienced working in the UN when it was faced with such weighty decisions.
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Jun 20, 2017 • 1h 17min
Leonard Grob and John Roth, “Losing Trust in the World: Holocaust Scholars Confront Torture,” (U. Washington Press, 2016)
Every time I teach Comparative Genocide, I distribute a letter to the students preparing them for the particular challenges of taking a course about mass violence. In the letter, I point out a simple fact. People, including academics, say the words “never again” repeatedly. Yet, the suffering goes on in Serbia, South Sudan, the DRC, Burma, and so on.
So what does it mean to study the Holocaust in a time when people in a variety of countries are suffering mass violence? Leonard Grob and John Roth are leaders in a years long effort to consider what scholars who study the Holocaust can say about the world in which they live. Their new book, Losing Trust in the World: Holocaust Scholars Confront Torture (University of Washington Press, 2016), looks specifically at torture. The essays come from a working group of historians, philosophers, theologians and social scientists, all experts in their field and all passionate about applying their research to the present.
The result is a compelling body of essays. Some focus primarily on ethical concerns and responses to mass atrocities. Others draw lessons from the Holocaust about the effects of torture on individuals and societies. Others look specifically at the contemporary world and ask how we should respond in the light of what we know about earlier atrocities. All are readable and challenging. In the end, I’m not sure I know exactly how to ‘confront’ torture. But I am better equipped to try. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

May 18, 2017 • 1h 14min
Michael Bryant,” A World History of War Crimes: From Antiquity to the Present,” (Bloomsbury, 2016)
Michael Bryant’s book is both less and more ambitious than its title. He’s writing less of a history of war crimes than he is a history of the idea and concept of war crimes. He’s most interested in what people have considered a breach of the norms of warfare and how this concept has changed over time.
The triumph of A World History of War Crimes: From Antiquity to the Present (Bloomsbury, 2016) is it’s reminder that, while expectations about how soldiers (and others) would act during warfare are not new at all, the notion of war crimes is actually quite recent. Bryant argues that ideas about the proper conduct of war go back to the ancient Near East. But these ideas were rarely based on the dignity of human person. Instead they derived from religion or from the shape of the political institutions in society. It was only in the 18th and 19th century, in the aftermath of the Enlightenment, that norms about conduct during warfare began to be based on the idea that mistreating civilians or wounded soldiers was a crime. And even then, these notions were activated through bilateral or multilateral treaties–implying that the recognition of human dignity had very real limits.
It’s an audacious task to attempt to survey the history of war crimes, especially a global history. Meant as a textbook, Bryant inevitably privileges European history. But it’s a thoughtful, well-written, provocative survey, exactly what we hope for in a textbook.
Kelly McFall is Associate Professor of History at Newman University in Wichita, Kansas, where he directs the Honors Program. He is particularly interested in the question of how to teach about the history of genocides and mass atrocities and has written a module in the Reacting to the Past series about the UN debate over whether to intervene in Rwanda in 1994. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies

Apr 13, 2017 • 1h 19min
Bert Ingelaere, “Inside Rwanda’s Gacaca Courts: Seeking Justice After Genocide” (U. Wisconsin Press, 2016)
Rwanda’s homegrown gacaca law has been widely hailed as a successful indigenous solution to the unprecedented problem of the country’s 1994 genocide. In his book Inside Rwanda’s Gacaca Courts: Seeking Justice After Genocide (University of Wisconsin Press, 2016), Bert Ingelaere complicates this received wisdom by focusing on the way the post-genocide gacaca trials unfolded, rather than on their lofty goals, as framed by the public relations arm of the post-genocide Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF) government and other interested parties, both internal and external to Rwanda.
The Kinyarwandan word gacaca, derived from the word umucaca, originally referred to a plant that was so soft to sit on that people preferred to gather on it during precolonial times to adjudicate disputes and crimes, but most importantly, to restore social order and harmony. During the colonial period, the jurisdiction and prevalence of gacaca was greatly restricted. Its re-emergence as a viable means of transitional justice in Rwanda following the genocide was a response to the volume of the associated crimes. Western-style court systems were simply unequal to the task of dealing with the 1,958,634 cases of alleged participation in the genocide.
The basis of this concise treatment of the gacaca court system and the transitional justice it sought to dispense between 2005 and 2012, is Ingelaere’s mixed methods research in Rwanda, which included extended field research, as well as proxy trial observation by his Rwandan collaborators. The books eight chapters provide an overview of the basic operational characteristics of gacaca and consider how we should qualify the outcomes of this ambitious process.
Mireille Djenno is the African Studies Librarian at Indiana University. She can be reached at mdjenno@indiana.edu
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Apr 12, 2017 • 50min
James Q. Whitman, “Hitler’s American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law” (Princeton UP, 2017)
James Q. Whitman, Ford Foundation Professor of Comparative and Foreign Law at Yale Law School, began researching the book that became Hitler’s American Model: The United States and the Making of Nazi Race Law (Princeton University Press, 2017) by wondering whether Jim Crow laws in the U.S. had any impact on the development of the Nuremberg Laws. Some scholars have denied any influence. Professor Whitman came to a very different conclusion, and what he learned deserves to be much more widely appreciated than it is. For the United States was the global pioneer of explicitly racist law–and not just, by any means, in the Jim Crow South.
Strikingly, American law was most helpful to the most radical Nazi jurists. In the early years of the Third Reich, 1933 to 1936, conservative nationalist lawyers in Germany debated with Nazi radicals about how to create a body of anti-Semitic law, but one consonant with German legal traditions, which emphasized strict adherence to carefully-articulated concepts. The radicals found their model in U.S. citizenship and anti-miscegenation law, and in a legal culture that, from their point of view, was refreshingly open to innovation.
Yet even the most radical Nazi jurists found the notorious one-drop rule, and the extreme punishments some U.S. states meted out for entering into racially-mixed marriages, too harsh and inhumane.
Professor Whitman’s unsettling, learned, and deeply-engaging book deserves a large audience.
Monica Black is Associate Professor and Lindsay Young Professor of History at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville. She teaches courses in modern European and German history. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoicesSupport our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/genocide-studies


