ASPI Podcast: Policy, Guns & Money
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute
Policy, Guns & Money is produced by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI).
ASPI is an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for strategic and defence leaders. ASPI has offices in Canberra, Australia and Washington DC, USA.
ASPI is an independent, non-partisan think tank that produces expert and timely advice for strategic and defence leaders. ASPI has offices in Canberra, Australia and Washington DC, USA.
Episodes
Mentioned books

Apr 30, 2021 • 43min
Biden’s first 100 days, Taiwan & Cross-Strait relations, biosecurity in Australia’s north
April 28 marked US President Joe Biden's first 100 days in office - a symbolic milestone used to measure the impact of a new administration. Peter Jennings is joined by Bruce Wolpe, Senior Fellow from the United States Studies Centre, to discuss President Biden's achievements so far, in areas such as the response to the pandemic and climate policy, and the domestic and foreign policy challenges the administration needs to manage.
Recently, Taiwan has been receiving increased international attention, in part because of its successful pandemic response but also due to Cross-Strait tensions. ASPI Research Intern, Elena Yi-Ching Ho speaks to Wen-Ti Sung, Lecturer in the Taiwan Studies Program at the Australian National University about Cross-Strait relations, the potential for military conflict and whether the status quo is still sustainable.
Dr Teagan Westendorf speaks to Professor Ruth Wallace, Dean of the College of Indigenous Futures, Arts and Society, and Director of the Northern Institute at Charles Darwin University. They discuss Australia’s evolving biosecurity challenges and the opportunities for community in Australia’s North to play a significant role in understanding and responding to biosecurity threats.
Guests (in order of appearance):
Peter Jennings: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/peter-jennings
Bruce Wolpe: https://www.ussc.edu.au/people/bruce-wolpe
Elena Yi-Ching Ho: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/elena-yi-ching-ho
Wen-Ti Sung: https://www.anu.edu.au/news/for-journalists/mr-wen-ti-sung
Dr Teagan Westendorf: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/teagan-westendorf
Professor Ruth Wallace: https://www.cdu.edu.au/northern-institute/our-teams/ruth-wallace

Apr 23, 2021 • 42min
Biden’s commitment to multilateralism, developments in the Quad & Indonesia’s foreign policy
In the earliest days of the Biden Administration, the United States has made it clear that it wants to re-engage in multilateralism. Peter Jennings is joined by Professor Gordon Flake, CEO of the Perth USAsia Centre, to discuss Biden’s foreign policy agenda, climate policies and the importance of alliances and repairing some of America’s reputational damage.
Following the first-ever leader-level Quad summit in March 2021, Michael Shoebridge is joined by Dr Lavina Lee, Senior Lecturer in Modern History, Politics and International Relations at Macquarie University to weigh in on the latest developments in the Quad grouping as well as Australia-India bilateral relations.
ASPI research intern, Hillary Mansour speaks with Dr David Engel, Head of ASPI’s Indonesia Program about Indonesia's Defence Equipment and Technology Transfer Agreement with Japan, what the agreement means for Indonesia and how Indonesia’s recent international engagements complement their foreign policy strategy.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/indonesias-free-and-active-foreign-policy-on-show-in-ministerial-visits-to-japan-and-china/
Guests (in order of appearance):
Peter Jennings: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/peter-jennings
Professor Gordon Flake: https://perthusasia.edu.au/staff-gordon-flake
Michael Shoebridge: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/michael-shoebridge
Dr Lavina Lee: https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/lavina-rajendram-lee
Hillary Mansour: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/hillary-mansour
David Engel: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/david-engel
Background music: "Classical Landscapes" by Kesta. Via the Free Music Archive.
Image: US Passport via PXHere

Apr 16, 2021 • 37min
Australia’s WPS National Action Plan, work in intelligence, Covid-19 response in the Pacific
Earlier this week, Australia’s second WPS National Action Plan outlines how Australia will take forward our national commitments to the Women, Peace and Security agenda. Emilia Currey is joined by Lisa Sharland, ASPI’s Deputy Director of Defence, Strategy & National Security and Head of International Program to discuss the plans strategic outcomes, how it differs from the first NAP, challenges for successful implementation and considerations for domestic concerns.
Have you ever considered a career in intelligence? Michael Shoebridge speaks with Carl and Karinda from the Office of National Intelligence about some of the exciting career pathways in intelligence and what the future of the intelligence workforce might look like.
This week, ASPI released the report ‘Island voices and Covid-19: Vulnerability and resilience - Views from The Strategist’ Brendan Nicholson is joined by the report co-author Professor Richard Herr from the University of Tasmania to discuss the range of responses to the pandemic in Pacific and Indian ocean states and the vulnerabilities and opportunities created by the pandemic.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.careersinintelligence.gov.au
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/island-voices-and-covid-19-vulnerability-and-resilience-views-strategist
Guests:
Emilia Currey: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/emilia-currey
Lisa Sharland: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/lisa-sharland
Michael Shoebridge: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/michael-shoebridge
Brendan Nicholson: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/brendan-nicholson
Professor Richard Herr: https://rmdb.research.utas.edu.au/public/rmdb/q/indiv_detail_warp_trans/329
Background music: "Outlaw's Farewell (pt1)" by Reed Mathis - via the YouTube Audio Library.
Image: "United Nations" via WikiPedia

Apr 9, 2021 • 40min
Southeast-Asia Climate hazards, AU-Pacific health partnerships & AU guided weapons investment
This week, ASPI has launched the Climate & Security Policy Centre, which will be headed up by Dr Robert Glasser. Anastasia is joined by Robert to discuss the Centre’s objectives as well as the new ASPI report ‘The rapidly emerging crisis on our doorstep’ which warns of climate hazards in Maritime Southeast Asia.
ASPI released the report ‘Next step in the step up: The ADF's role in building health security in Pacific Island states’ which looks at the potential for the ADF to form military partnerships in the health sector in Pacific island countries. Michael Shoebridge, speaks to report author Dr David Brewster, Senior Research Fellow at the ANU National Security College, about how the partnership could work and how it could benefit both the ADF and the region.
Last week the Australian Government announced a $1 billion federal plan to build a new guided weapons facility in Australia. Peter Jennings and Dr Marcus Hellyer consider the Government’s plan and how this will impact Defence's sovereign capability.
Mentioned in the episode:
‘The rapidly emerging crisis on our doorstep’: https://www.aspi.org.au/report/rapidly-emerging-crisis-our-doorstep
‘Next step in the step up: The ADF's role in building health security in Pacific Island states’: https://www.aspi.org.au/report/next-step-step-adfs-role-building-health-security-pacific-island-states
Climate and Security Policy Centre: https://www.aspi.org.au/program/climate-and-security-policy-centre
Guests:
Anastasia Kapetas: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/anastasia-kapetas
Dr Robert Glasser: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/robert-glasser
Michael Shoebridge: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/michael-shoebridge
Dr David Brewster: https://researchers.anu.edu.au/researchers/brewster-dh
Peter Jennings: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/peter-jennings
Dr Marcus Hellyer: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/marcus-hellyer
Background music: "Cover" by Patrick Patrikios via the YouTube Audio Library.
Image: "Sea Dart Missile in flight": https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sea_Dart_missile_in_flight.jpg

Apr 1, 2021 • 43min
Hypersonic weapons development, technology innovation, US domestic politics & foreign policy
In this episode of Policy, Guns & Money, Dr Marcus Hellyer speaks to Senior ASPI Fellow Dr Andrew Davies about his recent report ‘Coming ready or not: Hypersonic weapons’. They discuss what a hypersonic weapon is, whether there are ways to defend against this type of weapon and who is developing this capability.
Dr Teagan Westendorf speaks to Professor Lisa Short, Design Thinker & Digital Technologist, Founder of P&L Digital Edge and Group Chair of the Global Foundation for Cyber Studies & Research. They discuss how Australia can enable big tech innovation, the challenges of funding innovation and why it’s important decision-makers have an understanding of STEM and the potential of innovation.
Anastasia Kapetas speaks to Hayley Channer, Senior Policy Fellow with the Perth USAsia Centre, about the relationship between US domestic politics and foreign policy, Biden’s response to Covid-19 and how the Biden Administration can rebuild trust with its allies in the Indo-Pacific.
Report:
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/coming-ready-or-not-hypersonic-weapons
Guests:
Dr Marcus Hellyer: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/marcus-hellyer
Dr Andrew Davies: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/andrew-davies
Dr Teagan Westendorf: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/teagan-westendorf
Professor Lisa Short: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisagshort/?originalSubdomain=au
Anastasia Kapetas: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/anastasia-kapetas
Hayley Channer: https://perthusasia.edu.au/about-us/our-people/staff/hayley-channer
Image: WikiMedia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E190_Contrail_(3010347403).jpg
Background Music: "Cover" by Patrick Patrikios, via the YouTube Audio Library

Mar 26, 2021 • 44min
Managing the China relationship, Australian submarine program, digital investment in Southeast Asia
In this episode of Policy, Guns & Money, Brendan Nicholson speaks to Charles Parton, Senior Associate Fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, career diplomat and China expert. Charles provides an overview of how the Chinese Communist Party operates, what China wants from Australia and the UK, and the need for like-minded democracies to be coordinated in their approaches to prevent the use of coercive and hostage diplomacy. They also discuss opportunities to improve the relationship over time.
The Department of Defence's Attack-class submarine program has been highly scrutinised, with media outlets reporting a commissioned review may result in the government walking away from its partnership with France’s Naval Group. Michael Shoebridge and Dr Marcus Hellyer weigh in on the $89 billion program and what it means for the future of Australia's maritime security and Defence capabilities.
Bart Hogeveen speaks to Dr Huong Le Thu about Australia’s announcement in November 2020 of a $500 million investment into Southeast Asia to assist with the region’s recovery from Covid-19. They discuss opportunities for the Australian government to increase its engagement in the region through investment in digital initiatives, something Dr Huong Le Thu wrote about in the latest issue of Australian Foreign Affairs.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.australianforeignaffairs.com/articles/the-fix/2021/03/the-fix/huong-le-thu
Guests:
Brendan Nicholson: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/brendan-nicholson
Charles Parton OBE: https://rusi.org/people/parton-obe
Michael Shoebridge: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/michael-shoebridge
Dr Marcus Hellyer: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/marcus-hellyer
Dr Huong Le Thu: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/huong-le-thu
Bart Hogeveen: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/bart-hogeveen
Background music: "Bet on it" by Silent Partner - via the YouTube Audio Library.
Image: Copyright Commonwealth of Australia. https://images.defence.gov.au/assets/Home/Search?Query=20200928ran8562953_0600.jpg&Type=Filename

Mar 19, 2021 • 31min
Global energy transformation, CCP information operations & Australia’s fuel security
In this episode of Policy, Guns and Money, Dr Robert Glasser speaks to climate expert Frank Jotzo, Professor of environmental economics and climate change economics at ANU where he directs the Centre for Climate and Energy Policy. They discuss the global shifts from fossil fuels to renewables and the commercial market forces behind green energy and what China’s dominance in the sector really means.
Dr Jacob Wallis and Albert Zhang talk about some of the key findings from their recent report ‘Trigger Warning: The CCP’s coordinated information effort to discredit the BBC’. They discuss the tactics used by the CCP including the leveraging of Western and alternative news media.
With a drive for fuel storage investment in the Northern Territory, Dr Teagan Westendorf speaks with Tony McCormack on Australia’s fuel security and resilience. They consider the different aspects of Australia’s fuel strategy including infrastructure development, logistical concerns and fixes, and overall benefits to the region.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.aspi.org.au/report/trigger-warning
Guests:
Dr Robert Glasser: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/robert-glasser
Professor Frank Jotzo: https://crawford.anu.edu.au/people/academic/frank-jotzo
Dr Jacob Wallis: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/jacob-wallis
Albert Zhang: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/albert-zhang
Dr Teagan Westendorf: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/teagan-westendorf
Tony McCormack: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/tony-mccormack
Image: "Fuel Tanks" via Pixabay.
Background music: "Forwards Backwards" by Bio Unit. https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Bio_Unit/aerostat/forwards-backwards

Mar 12, 2021 • 39min
Covid-19 government inquiry, China’s Taiwan strategy, Hong Kong national security law impacts
In May 2020, the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade adopted an inquiry into the implications of the COVID-19 pandemic for Australia’s foreign affairs, defence and trade. Chair of the Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade, Senator David Fawcett, joins Brendan Nicholson to discuss the report from the inquiry including some of the key findings and recommendations for government.
Michael Shoebridge speaks to Dr Oriana Skylar Mastro, Center Fellow at Stanford University’s Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies and Non-Resident Senior Fellow, American Enterprise Institute, about China’s thinking around Taiwan and China’s growing confidence when it comes to foreign policy.
Human Rights Watch China senior researcher Maya Wang joins ASPI’s Dr Nathan Attrill to discuss the controversial Hong Kong national security law, the latest arrests under the law and the wider impacts on pro-democracy Hong Kongers.
Mentioned in this episode:
https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Committees/Joint/Foreign_Affairs_Defence_and_Trade/FADTandglobalpandemic/Report
Guests:
Brendan Nicholson: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/brendan-nicholson
Senator the Hon David Fawcett: https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=DYU
Michael Shoebridge: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/michael-shoebridge
Dr Oriana Skylar Mastro: http://www.orianaskylarmastro.com/
Dr Nathan Attrill: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/nathan-attrill
Maya Wang: https://www.hrw.org/about/people/maya-wang
Background Music: "Docking" by Bio Unit - via the Free Music Archive. https://freemusicarchive.org/music/Bio_Unit/aerostat/docking

Mar 9, 2021 • 39min
Special Episode: International Women’s Day 2021!
It’s International Women’s Day! To celebrate International Women’s Day on 8 March, we are excited to share this brilliant all-female line-up with defence, foreign policy and national security expertise.
Danielle Cave, Deputy Director of ASPI’s International Cyber Policy Centre is joined by Dr Tanvi Madan, Director of the India Project and Senior Fellow at the Brookings Institution, to discuss India and the Quad and the prospects for increased collaboration between the Quad countries.
Lisa Sharland speaks with Jenna Allen, Research Assistant for Dr Deane-Peter Baker at UNSW’s Australian Defence Force Academy. Jenna shares some insights into her journey in building a career in defence and national security and outlines some of the work of UNSW’s ‘Women in Future Operations’ group.
The Strategist’s Anastasia Kapetas and ASPI research intern Khwezi Nkwanyana highlight the achievements of four pioneering women in foreign correspondence: Ida B. Wells, Martha Gellhorn, Oriana Fallaci and Claire Rewcastle Brown. In tracing their influence and groundbreaking work, their discussion captures some of the history of trailblazing women journalists.
In this episode:
Danielle Cave: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/danielle-cave
Tanvi Madan: https://www.brookings.edu/experts/tanvi-madan/
Lisa Sharland: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/lisa-sharland
Jenna Allen: https://www.unsw.adfa.edu.au/school-of-humanities-and-social-sciences/research-groups/future-operations-research-group/people
Anastasia Kapetas: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/anastasia-kapetas
Khwezi Nkwanyana: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/khwezi-nkwanyana
Image: https://www.internationalwomensday.com/Resources
Music: "Fast and Run" by Nico Staf via the YouTube Audio Library

Mar 5, 2021 • 41min
Arbitrary detention, international response to Xinjiang & combatting organised crime
On February 15 this year, Canada launched the Declaration Against Arbitrary Detention in State-to-State relations, a global initiative which aims to raise awareness and stop the practice of arbitrary detention. Brendan Nicholson speaks with Margaret McCuaig-Johnston, Senior Fellow in the Institute for Science, Society and Policy at the University of Ottawa, about the effectiveness of the declaration in preventing arbitrary detention and whether more can be done through global cooperation
In December 2020, Senator Rex Patrick tabled a bill in Australian Parliament to ban the importation of goods produced by Uyghur forced labour into Australia. Kelsey Munro and James Leibold discuss Australia’s response to human rights abuses in Xinjiang so far, in contrast with international responses, and whether this Customs Amendment bill is an effective tool to address forced labour globally.
Dr John Coyne and Dr Teagan Westendorf discuss the strategies international police are using to combat organised crime across Southeast Asia. They discuss the impacts of the arrest of Tse Chi Lop on organised crime in the region, and policy options to counter this challenge, including the Magnitsky Act and top-down decapitation methods.
Mentioned in this episode:
Declaration Against Arbitrary Detention in State-to-State Relations: https://www.international.gc.ca/news-nouvelles/arbitrary_detention-detention_arbitraire-declaration.aspx?lang=eng
Customs Amendment (Banning Goods Produced By Uyghur Forced Labour) Bill 2020: https://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_Search_Results/Result?bId=s1284
Guests:
Brendan Nicholson: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/brendan-nicholson
Margaret McCuaig-Johnston: https://www.ualberta.ca/china-institute/about/people/senior-fellows/margaret-mccuaig-johnston.html
Kelsey Munro: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/kelsey-munro
James Leibold: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/james-leibold
Dr John Coyne: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/john-coyne
Dr Teagan Westendorf: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/teagan-westendorf
Background music: "19th Floor" by Bobby Richards - via the YouTube Audio Library.
Image: "Detention centre fencing" via WikiMedia: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Detention_Center_Fencing_(25087989584).jpg


