ASPI Podcast: Policy, Guns & Money

This week Australian prime minister Anthony Albanese travelled to China to meet with President Xi Jinping. Amongst the backdrop of warming relations between the two countries they represent, David Wroe speaks with ASPI executive director Justin Bass and new ASPI fellow Ami Bagia, who previously sat on the Biden-Harris Administration's National Security Council as the Director for Countering Foreign Malign Influence and Information Integrity within the Democracy and Human Rights Directorate. They speak about Australia's past and current relations with China, and the impact of official messaging. Daria Impiombato has a conversation with Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian, the China reporter at Axios, and author of the weekly Axios China Newsletter. They discuss Bethany's new book "Beijing Rules: How China Weaponized Its Economy to Confront the World" and explore Australia's role in the book. Mentioned in this episode: Beijing Rules: How China Weaponized Its Economy to Confront the World - https://www.bethanyallenebrahimian.com/ Guests: Justin Bassi: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/justin-bassi Ami Bagia Daria Impiombato: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/daria-impiombato Bethany Allen-Ebrahimian: https://www.axios.com/authors/baebrahimian Music: "Think Different" by Scott Holmes, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

This episode is all about AI, emerging technologies and China. Dr Alex Caples speaks to Simeon Gilding about his ASPI report ‘De-risking authoritarian AI: A balanced approach to protecting our digital ecosystems’. They discuss the risks of Chinese AI-enabled technologies, including through data theft, disruption and denial of services, and how nations should approach regulation of AI. David Wroe speaks to Dr Samantha Hoffman and Lilly Lee about the Metaverse and China. They discuss Beijing's approach to the Metaverse, as well as the potential national security risks associated with it and how these risks can be addressed. Mentioned in this episode: https://www.aspi.org.au/report/de-risking-authoritarian-ai Guests: Alex Caples: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/dr-alex-caples Simeon Gilding: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/simeon-gilding David Wroe: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/david-wroe Samantha Hoffman: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/samantha-hoffman Lilly Lee

With Australian Prime Minister Albanese in Washington DC this week, and set to visit Beijing shortly after, Justin Bassi speaks to CNAS’s Lisa Curtis and ORF’s Dr Raji Pillai Rajagopalan for a special episode of the ASPI podcast. They discuss the significance of the two visits, and how PM Albanese should approach the upcoming meetings with President Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping. They also explore regional security in the Indo-Pacific, with a focus on India’s foreign policy and what India’s longstanding policy of non-alignment looks like in practice, as well as the India-Canada rift and whether it will impact the India-US and India-Australia relationships. Looking ahead to 2024, Justin asks Raji and Lisa about upcoming elections in the United States and India, and their potential implications for security and stability in the Indo-Pacific. Guests: Justin Bassi: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/justin-bassi Lisa Curtis: https://www.cnas.org/people/lisa-curtis Raji Rajagopalan: https://www.orfonline.org/people-expert/rajeswari-pillai-rajagopalan/ Music: "Think Different" by Scott Holmes, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

This week it is all about Southeast Asia on the ASPI pod. To kick off, Gatra Priyandita speaks to Thomas Parks from The Asia Foundation about geopolitics in Southeast Asia. While there’s a lot of attention on the US-China rivalry and its implications for the region, Gatra and Tom focus on the different regional dynamics in Southeast Asia, including ASEAN, regional challenges and the relationships that countries like Australia and Japan have in the region and how they have changed. Zooming in on Indonesia, Gatra Priyandita speaks to Natalie Sambhi about Indonesian politics and foreign policy and Australia’s relationship with Indonesia. They discuss Indonesia’s vision for the world and how it aligns with Australia’s, the roles both countries can play in shaping international rules and norms and how to further strengthen the bilateral relationship, including through education. Guests: Gatra Priyandita: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/gatra-priyandita Thomas Parks: https://asiafoundation.org/people/thomas-parks/ Natalie Sambhi: https://www.ververesearch.org/our-team1 Music: "Righteous" by Ketsa, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

‘Hacking for Cash’ is a new ASPI podcast series exploring state sponsored campaigns of cyber espionage for commercial gain. Throughout the series we talk to experts who were close to the negotiations that led to a 2015 agreement between the United States and China to refrain from supporting and engaging in ‘hacking for cash’, as well as a G20 leaders’ commitment to stamp out cyber-enabled intellectual property (IP) theft. The series features conversations with cybersecurity experts on state-sponsored hackers and how they operate, and with industry leaders about risk and resilience. We also talk with IP experts about how the US and China protect trade secrets, and with national cybersecurity and counter-intelligence agencies about how companies and universities can protect their crown jewels. This week, Dr Gatra Priyandita speaks with Nadia Taggart, Chief Information Security Officer at Western Sydney University and Anna Aquilina, Chief Information Security Officer at the University of Technology Sydney. They discuss the issue of knowledge and research security and the risks of malign foreign interference and cyber espionage. They also explore the biggest threats and risks to universities, and how we can assure that critical and sensitive research data is protected from illegal access and theft. Mentioned in this episode: ASPI’s Critical Technologies Tracker: https://techtracker.aspi.org.au/ Music: "Lounge It" by Maarten Schellekens, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

In the third episode of our special series from the sidelines of the ASPI ‘Disruption and Deterrence’ conference, ASPI’s Alex Caples speaks to Sean Singleton, Partner & VP of Business Development at America’s Frontier Fund. They discuss innovation, challenges to government-industry collaboration on disruptive technologies and the origins and evolution of the US Defense Innovation Unit. Thanks for listening to the ASPI podcast. That’s all we have time for today, we’ll back with another episode soon. Guests: Alex Caples: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/dr-alex-caples Sean Singleton: https://americasfrontier.org/team/sean-singleton Music: "Vintage Beat" by Ketsa, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

In this special episode, recorded on the sidelines of ASPI’s annual conference ‘Disruption and Deterrence’, Bec Shrimpton speaks with Dr Brad Roberts. Brad has served as director for the Centre for Global Security Research, and as policy director of the Obama administration's Nuclear Posture Review. Bec and Brad talk about the meaning of deterrence, what has historically made for good and bad deterrence, and what Australia and its allies can do to improve deterrence going forward. Guests: Bec Shrimpton: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/bec-shrimpton Dr Brad Roberts: https://cgsr.llnl.gov/experts/fellows/brad_roberts Music: "Rodeo Drive" by Eazy, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

In this special episode, recorded on the sidelines of ASPI’s annual conference ‘Disruption and Deterrence’, David Wroe speaks with Kori Schake. As well as being Director of Foreign and Defense Policy at the American Enterprise Institute, Kori is a contributing writer for The Atlantic and a regular on the popular Deep State Radio podcast. David and Kori talk about the future of the international order, the state of American politics — from the perspective of a lapsed Republican — and Kori’s irrepressible optimism about the future of democracy and open economies. Guests: David Wroe: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/david-wroe Kori Schake: https://www.aei.org/profile/kori-schake/ Music: "Think Different" by Scott Holmes, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

This week, ASPI’s Executive Director, Justin Bassi speaks with Jason Healey, Senior Research Scholar at Columbia University’s School for International and Public Affairs specialising in cyber conflict, competition and cooperation. Jason wrote and edited the book ‘A Fierce Domain: Cyber Conflict, 1986-2012’ and has held a number of senior cyber security roles, including in the Pentagon, as a founding member of Joint Task Force - Computer Network Defense, and as Director for Cyber Infrastructure Protection in the White House from 2003-2005. Justin and Jason discuss the importance of understanding the implications of cyberspace on security and society and explain why cyber needs to be at the heart of national security. Guests: Justin Bassi: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/justin-bassi Jason Healey: https://www.sipa.columbia.edu/communities-connections/faculty/jason-healey Music: "Vintage Beat" by Ketsa, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk

As we fast approach ASPI’s 2023 conference on deterrence and disruption, this week’s podcast begins with a conversation between conference speakers Bec Shrimpton and Dr Ross Babbage about military, political and economic strategy. They discuss Dr Babbage’s new book ‘The Next Major War: Can the US and its Allies Win Against China?’ and the importance of net assessment to allied deterrence and defence strategy. Shifting to a more domestic focus, Dr John Coyne speaks to countering violent extremism expert Peta Lowe about terrorist prisoners and the controversial tools used to assess their risk of reoffending. They discuss how this risk assessment compares with other crimes such as child exploitation and extremely violent offences. Mentioned in this episode: ‘The Next Major War: Can the US and its Allies Win Against China?: https://www.cambriapress.com/pub.cfm?bid=966 ASPI 2023 Conference: Disruption and Deterrence: https://www.aspi.org.au/event/disruption-and-deterrence-2023-aspi-conference Guests (in order of appearance): Bec Shrimpton: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/bec-shrimpton Dr Ross Babbage: https://csbaonline.org/about/people/staff/ross-babbage Dr John Coyne: https://www.aspi.org.au/bio/john-coyne Peta Lowe: https://www.phronesisconsultingandtraining.com.au/about Music: "Righteous" by Ketsa, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk