The China in Africa Podcast

The hosts reflect on a monumental year, discussing the launch of the Simandou mine and its impact on iron ore geopolitics. They delve into environmental and social challenges, highlighting the Kafue River spill's narrative battle. China's strategic shift towards South American soybeans raises eyebrows in US–China trade relations. Tensions within the G20 regarding South Africa signal shifting global dynamics. As they look ahead, the spotlight is on Southeast Asia's rising significance and Zimbabwe's efforts in lithium production.

Joshua Eisenman, a politics professor at Notre Dame, and Caroline Costello, assistant director at the Atlantic Council, shed light on the rampant illegal resource extraction in West Africa, primarily driven by Chinese demand. They explore the complexities of local corruption and weak enforcement, yet present hope through innovative policy recommendations from a recent collaborative report. The discussion highlights the potential for African governments to improve accountability and the need for grassroots reporting to curb these illegal activities.

Carlos Oya, a political economy expert at SOAS, dives into Africa's industrialization challenges and opportunities. He highlights the dual role of China as both an obstacle and a partner. Reliable infrastructure is essential for manufacturing growth, and Oya delves into Ethiopia's successful strategy. He also discusses the shift from policy banks to private investment in African projects, debunks myths about Chinese labor, and emphasizes the need for strong local education to support this industrial transformation.

Christian Géraud, an Africa editor and analyst specializing in extractive industries, shares insightful analysis on the newly inked U.S.-DRC mining deal. He explains how this agreement could significantly restrict Chinese mining firms' expansions in the DRC, potentially setting a precedent for similar moves across Africa. Géraud also discusses security guarantees for the DRC and the implications of this neocolonial dynamic, while highlighting the evolving landscape of cobalt in electric vehicles and the strategic interests of the U.S. and other nations in the region.

Anika Patel, a China analyst at Carbon Brief, shares insights from COP30 where China's role looms large amidst a U.S. absence. She discusses how China portrayed itself as a norm-setter in South Africa, yet shied away from being labeled a 'climate leader' in Brazil. Key issues include climate finance dynamics, tensions around trade measures, and the dilemma faced by developing nations weighing affordable Chinese green tech against local industrial goals. Patel highlights China's strategic positioning and influence in shaping the future of global climate politics.

Innocent Batsani-Ncube, an associate professor of African politics and author of "China and African Parliaments," explores China's extensive construction of government buildings in Africa. He discusses how these projects serve as tools for subtle power, influencing African elites while being framed as generous gifts. The conversation dives into the political implications of foreign-funded parliaments, sovereignty concerns, and the unique dynamics of China's approach compared to other countries. Case studies from Lesotho, Malawi, and Zimbabwe illustrate the complexities behind these architectural investments.

In this engaging discussion, Adam Rousselle, a researcher focused on illicit arms trade, highlights the alarming shift of Chinese organized crime into Africa. He reveals how interconnected Chinese networks are fueling illicit crypto mining, illegal wildlife trafficking, and arms sales in regions plagued by weak governance. Adam also delves into a significant Congolese court case involving gold smuggling and the role of local corruption. He emphasizes the need for better regulatory enforcement to combat these illicit economies and disrupt harmful trade flows.

Dan Wang, a technology and China analyst and author of 'Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future,' discusses China's unique 'engineering state' model. He explains how China rapidly transformed from rural poverty to an industrial powerhouse, focusing on massive infrastructure investments and strategic planning. Dan debates whether this model can be replicated in the Global South and explores the challenges of forced technology transfers. He also examines the benefits of process knowledge, while warning that the engineering state may face limitations.

James Kynge, a veteran Financial Times journalist and author, discusses China's unprecedented manufacturing prowess and its implications for the Global South. He explores how China's ability to produce a $6 toaster illustrates a broader challenge for developing nations trying to climb the industrial ladder. Kynge highlights the unique advantages of industrial clusters like Shenzhen and the dual reality of China's economy, which combines immense wealth and low-wage labor. He warns that as countries compete with the 'China Price,' they face a daunting uphill battle.

Aggrey Mutambo, the Africa editor at the Daily Nation and seasoned journalist, discusses the evolution of China’s portrayal in African media. He highlights how attitudes have shifted from negative to more favorable, thanks to China’s outreach strategies, including journalist junkets and content sharing. Mutambo explores the impact of Western narratives and the growing frustration with them, as well as how returning scholars influence reporting. He delves into the allure of China's rapid infrastructural development and the complexities of balancing progress with environmental concerns.