
Acquisition Talk
A podcast on the management, technology, and political-economy of weapon systems acquisition.
Latest episodes

Apr 15, 2020 • 1h 2min
The future of Navy software development with Lt. Sean Lavelle
I was pleased to speak with Navy Lieutenant Sean Lavelle. He is the founder and lead of the iLoc development team, which rapidly deploys valuable software capabilities to the Navy's P-8 fleet. During the episode, Sean describes how P-8 aviators took it upon themselves to code new applications that could solve hard problems with software rather than pencil and paper. One application reduced reporting errors by 90 percent.
Sean provides a compelling vision of the future where operators also take on duties as software developers or product managers. This doesn't require everyone to have coding skills. The P-8A's organic software team only has six rotating developers. Sean argues it is better to have many users involved in defining the business logic with a small team of software developers rather than a large software team with little access to user input. The result is a continuous process where knowledge from the military operators can quickly get embodied in software and deployed to the entire fleet. Sean calls this "software-defined tactics," and it's a compelling concept indeed.
One of the many benefits is that it decreases the burden of training as operators are constantly involved in small changes. This is in contrast to the large and infrequent software drops from contractors, where increased capability often comes at the expense of increased complexity. It usually takes 3 or 4 years, for example, to train a P-8 tactical coordinator. However, with the iLoc tools, a trainee of 6 months can reach a level of proficiency that used to take two or more years. Agile in-house software development vastly decreases complexity at the same time in generates new capabilities, allowing the US military to scale much more rapidly in the event of conflict with a great power.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Apr 7, 2020 • 46min
SOFWERX, innovation, and early adoption with Tambrein Bates
Tambrein Bates joined me on the Acquisition Talk podcast to discuss his role in helping build an ecosystem of over 40,000 innovators in support of Special Operations Command (SOCOM). For the last five years, Tambrein has been the director of SOFWERX, and before that spent a career in US Army special operations. During the episode, we touch on:
- Designing for producibility
- When to use a prize rather than a contract
- The horses vs. jockeys view of innovation
- Moving from a 2-D to a 4-D view of risk
- Whether we set a low bar in defense acquisition
SOFWERX is a non-profit chartered by SOCOM and DEFENSEWERX to transition commercial technology into the military. Tambrein says that commercial R&D has bypassed the Pentagon, and there is a great deal of potential for recombining existing technologies in new and provocative ways.
SOFWERX clients in government tend to access SOFWERX to: (1) help them think clearly about programs/technologies; (2) remove some administrative burdens; and (3) accessing their network of firms and innovators that can address a wide range of requirements from submarines to satellites. SOFWERX is not a "front door" to the acquisition system, but remains important piece to accelerating tech transition.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Mar 30, 2020 • 58min
Speed, thrift, and simplicity with Dan Ward
In this episode of Acquisition Talk, I speak with Dan Ward. He spent 20 years in the US Air Force, and has just released his third book called Lift: Innovation Lessons from Flying Machines that ALMOST Worked and the People who NEARLY Flew Them. During the conversation, we discuss a wide range of topics related to accelerating innovation, including:
- How the Wright brothers built the first airplane with 1/73rd the funds
- Why waterfall development is "like gluing feathers on your arms as a way to fly."
- Why contracts should add a termination clause if costs grow 15%
- The importance of diversity to developments
- Why economies of scale rarely pan out
- How the Navy used an X-Box controller at less than 1/100th the cost
During the episode, Dan explains why predictions become increasingly fragile over time. If large projects are broken down into smaller tasks, the greatest advance can be achieved for lower costs and in less time. While there is no longer a static technical baseline to measure performance against, the iterative learning process allows us to count on a positive outcome even if we can't define it ahead of time.
Dan points to policies that explicitly favor modular projects and contracts. He recommends we all read FAR Part 39, acquisition of IT. In practice, however, many government officials continue to favor large monolithic contracts. We discuss how government can shift toward more modular contracts. History has shown how incremental steps emphasizing speed, thrift, and simplicity actually allows us to innovate faster. This pattern comes out clearly in Dan's new book on the pioneers of aviation.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Mar 26, 2020 • 33min
Special: Covid-19 impact on government contracting with Jerry McGinn
In this special episode of Acquisition Talk, we listen in on a conversation about the effects of COVID-19 on government contracting, including (1) the Defense Production Act, (2) emergency relief stimulus, (3) government contract data in response to coronavirus and business opportunities, and (4) guidance from government on navigating the crisis. It was recorded for George Mason University's new series, the Mason Executive Podcast.
The episode features Dr. Jerry McGinn, executive director at the Center for Government Contracting, Dr. Bret Josephson, podcast host and Professor of Marketing, and myself. We discuss a recent report we released at the Center. It describes how more than $200 million has been obligated to contracts specifically for COVID-19 as of March 24. This includes $153 million for research and development, $34 million for medical equipment and services, $13 million to ventilators, $3.5 million for tests/panels, $2.5 million for personal protective equipment.
Jerry is an expert on the Defense Production Act (DPA), having overseen the program during his time in the Pentagon as Principal Deputy Director of the Office of Manufacturing and Industrial Base Policy. resident Trump delegated DPA authorities to Health and Human Services. As Jerry explained, "it gives HHS the authority to change the rating of company contracts and put the government order at the top of the line." While the program usually has about $100 million in the fund, the new $2 trillion stimulus package that just passed the Senate includes $3 billion for the DPA. P
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Mar 11, 2020 • 48min
Leaping the valley of death with Matt Steckman
Matt Steckman joined me on the Acquisition Talk podcast to discuss about a wide range of issues facing growth-stage companies in the defense industry. He is the Chief Revenue Officer of Anduril Industries. Topics include:
- Edge computing and the future of artificial intelligence
- How to think about risk taking in product development
- The beauty of the Air Force's approach enterprise tools
- How cost and pricing data becomes self-reinforcing
- Why security clearance process is a barrier to entry
The podcast features a discussion of transitioning technology across the "valley of death" to a program of record. Matt applauds government efforts to make it easier for new entrants to get small government contracts. However, it often takes years to get funding lined up through a program office. While large incumbents can manage the system by having a portfolio of projects at various stages, new entrants may face a gap in revenues for multiple years. As Matt reminds us, Anduril didn't even exist when this year's budgets were being planned more than two years ago.
In order to bridge the valley of death, Matt recommends small companies field capabilities early and have honest conversations with government about what it takes to stay viable. He also provides three things the DoD can do that will allow industry to rise up and participate. (1) recompete programs more often; (2) if the winner is new, be willing to move larger amounts of funds; and (3) increase flexibility to move funding within the fiscal year.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Mar 4, 2020 • 45min
China's approach to military tech with Tate Nurkin
Tate Nurkin joined me on the Acquisition Talk podcast to discuss China's weapons technologies. He is the founder of the OTH Intelligence Group, and a non-resident senior fellow with the Atlantic Council. We touch on a wide range of topics, including:
Progress on civil-military integration
Volume and velocity in Chinese development
Advances in autonomous systems and drone swarms
The fast pace of change in hypersonic missiles
China's PLA Navy shipbuilding
How the United States needs to work better with other countries
Kai-Fu Lee's take on techno-utilitarianism
The Army's approach to Future Vertical Lift
Tate recognizes the rapid progress of China's progress since the watershed 2013-2014 reforms, and indeed the number of Chinese firms marketing unmanned systems. For example, China has successfully demonstrated swarms of 119 UAVs and 56 unmanned surface maritime vessels. However, he argues that we have a tendency to overplay the challenges facing the United States defense industry, and underplay those facing China.
The Chinese defense industry still faces its own hurdles, including the inefficiency of state owned enterprises and persistent troubles developing aircraft engines. We should also treat the operational effectiveness of China's hypersonic missile, the DF-17, with a dose of skepticism. Yet overall, it is impressive how fast China can get new applications out into the field. This should force the United States to think hard about the way it conducts business, and how that can be sped up to match the threat.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Feb 16, 2020 • 1h 2min
All about Other Transactions Authority (OTAs) with Richard Dunn
In this episode of the Acquisition Talk podcast, I speak with Richard Dunn about commercial contracting, and in particular, Other Transactions Authority(OTAs). He is the founder of the Strategic Institute, and has had a long career in government including General Counsel of DARPA.
Rick argues that the traditional Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) does not have enough flexibility to allow for commercial contracting. Instead of focusing on value and innovation, the FAR narrows government's focus on cost. The system is "fundamentally unfair," he said. If it were fair, we should expect to see greater business participation. One study found that just the top ten regulations contribute to an 18 percent cost premium. Why would any firm take on that cost at the expense of being noncompetitive in their commercial markets?
Other Transactions, by contrast, allow the government to legally negotiate terms and conditions without reference to the FAR. In other words, the government can do business like any commercial firm, leading to lower transaction costs. However, the adoption of OTs have been stymied for decades because of proactive resistance. Preexisting learning stops subsequent learning, and contracting officers tend to think in terms of FAR language. Rick suggests how to break out of that mindset.
During the conversation, we discussed:
- The reason Norm Augustine said Lockheed couldn't do commercial business
- How contract regulations became so burdensome
- Why are most OT consortia are only "so-called" consortia
- The effect of telling contract officers they will go to jail for non-compliance
- How OTs "shop problems" while the FAR "shops requirements"
- How startups can use unfunded OTs to gain access to government capital and users
- Why payable milestones are outside of the FAR
- The history of OTs, including Paul Demling, NASA, and the Telestar satellite
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Feb 3, 2020 • 54min
Getting the culture right with Soraya Correa
Soraya Correa joined me on the Acquisition Talk podcast to discuss small business programs, the procurement innovation lab, workforce training programs, why contracting officers might be risk averse, industry engagement, and much more. She is the Chief Procurement Officer for the Department of Homeland Security, and one of our government's most impactful business leaders.
During the episode, Ms. Correa describes how she has taken a different approach to acquisition reform. As we often see in the Pentagon and as it is instigated by Congress, acquisition reform usually means trying to streamline regulations while creating new parallel structures (e.g., middle-tier acquisition, urgent capabilities, software, etc.). Ms. Correa, however, recognized that many authorities already exist. Real change comes from focusing on developing and then empowering people. "I'm not trying to change the rules," she said, "I'm trying to change how we think about the rules."
We discuss why, on the margin, leadership should focus on the inputs and trust that the outputs will take care of themselves. To that end, Ms. Correa has nurtured several workforce training and mentoring programs. Moreover, she set up an in-house "consultancy" to help those professionals innovate from the bottom up. The Federal Acquisition Regulation isn't overly restrictive, Ms. Correa finds, instead it is risk aversion on the part of the workforce. Using her leadership position and backed by a long tenure, Ms. Correa provides the necessary top cover to allow her workforce to execute great solutions.
I'd like to thank Soraya Correa for joining me on the Acquisition Talk podcast. She has been a recurring guest on Government Matters, watch them all! She is a frequent communicator, numerous videos are available on You Tube. Another good interview is here, and you can find out her thoughts on business automation here. Listen to Ms. Correa on the "Let's Talk about IT" podcast. You can learn more about doing business with DHS here, and career opportunities are here.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Jan 10, 2020 • 1h 21min
Russia's military procurement with Richard Connolly
Dr. Richard Connolly joined me on the Acquisition Talk podcast to discuss a wide range of issues, including Russia's GPV modernization programs, the effect of sanctions, whether Russia can produce hypersonics in large numbers, dependence on oil, access to commercial technology, and even acquisition reform in the United Kingdom. Dr. Connolly is the director of the Center for Russian, European, and Eurasian Studies (CREES) at Birmingham University, and he is an Associate Fellow at Chatham House.
The discussion features an argument Dr. Connolly made about how to convert Russian military spending from rubles to dollars. The standard methodology uses the Market Exchange Rate (MER), which puts Russia's economy on the same level as Spain's and their military spending comes out to around $61 billion. That may give the misleading impression that Russia's military capability is perhaps less than one-tenth that of the United States. Dr. Connolly convincingly argues that the Purchasing Power Parity is a better measure, in which case Russia's perceived military spending increases to $160 billion.
The MER reflects the supply and demand for rubles in US dollars to balance trade. The problem is that traded goods are not reflective of prices Russia's military planners face. For example, food, housing, haircuts, and worker salaries are not reflected in the MER. Even after adjusting for the MER, consumer prices are less than half as much as they are in the United States -- meaning Russia's military planners can afford more.
The PPP provides a more apples-to-apples comparison. Preliminary results from Dr. Connolly's efforts to construct a PPP for military inputs show that it is close to the same value as the PPP for consumer goods. Dr. Connolly concludes that the PPP is roughly right whereas the MER is precisely wrong. The same is likely true of other low-income countries like China and Iran.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.

Dec 23, 2019 • 1h 30min
Agents of Innovation with John Kuehn
In this episode of Acquisition Talk, I speak with Dr. John Kuehn. He is a professor of military history at the Army Command and General Staff College and former naval aviator. We discussed innovation in the interwar Navy, how the Falklands War provided a glimpse into the future of warfare, the new Space Force, whether constraints may propel innovation, what we can learn from Arthur C. Clarke, how the Netherlands invented wolfpack submarine tactics, and much more.
We had an in depth discussion of two of John's books, Agents of Innovation and America's First General Staff. The Navy's General Board helped bring about the force that won World War II. One of the many aspects of its wisdom was withholding judgment until after experimentation. Change was helped along by post-World War I arms reduction treaties which limited capital shipbuilding and banned overseas bases in the Pacific. This led to gradual innovation away from the battleship and toward sea-based logistics, floating dry docks, long range submarines, carrier aviation, and more. John argues that a paucity of resources created an imperative to innovate.
The discussion turns to the 21st century. John argued a new arms reduction treaty would benefit the US and the world. While he doesn't think budgets should be drastically cut, he is no fan of largess. A holiday on aircraft carrier construction, for example, would force military planners to really grapple with new challenges like anti-access. I ask about whether China would agree to limitations. Listen to the whole thing to hear his contrarian -- and well-informed -- point of view.
I'd like to thank John for joining me on the Acquisition Talk podcast. Check out all of his books available on Amazon. I've uploaded John's excellent 2017 report to the CNO on Fleet Design. Watch some of his lectures available on YouTube. Here is a nice paper from John's student, Innovation from the Sea, on unmanned aerial vehicle policy. He recommends that you check out a great PowerPoint presentation from Jim Corum, Development of German Army Operational Doctrine in the Interwar Period.
This podcast was produced by Eric Lofgren. Soundtrack by urmymuse: "reflections of u". You can follow us on Twitter @AcqTalk and find more information at AcquisitionTalk.com.
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