
Scratching the Surface
Scratching the Surface is a podcast about design, theory, and creative practice. Hosted by Jarrett Fuller, each episode features wide-ranging conversations with designers, architects, writers, academics, artists, and theorists about how design shapes culture. Previous guests include architecture critic Paul Goldberger, MoMA design curator Paola Antonelli, architect and OMA partner Reinier de Graaf, Pentagram partner Michael Bierut, RISD President Rosanne Somerson, writer Kurt Andersen, and designer Jessica Helfand. Featured in Architectural Digest, Dezeen, Curbed, and Eye. New episodes every other Wednesday.
Latest episodes

Sep 14, 2022 • 50min
216. Maria Nicanor
Maria Nicanor is the director of Cooper Hewitt, Smithsonian Design Museum. She previously was the executive director of the Rice Design Alliance at Rice University’s School of Architecture and a curator at the design, architecture, and digital department of the Victoria and Albert Museum. In this conversation, Jarrett and Maria talk about the mandate of the Cooper Hewitt, the role of museums, and why design can be the great equalizer. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/216-maria-nicanor.
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Aug 31, 2022 • 53min
71. Bryan Boyer (2018 Rerun)
This episode originally aired April 11, 2018.
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Bryan Boyer is a partner at Dash Marshall, an architecture and strategic design studio based in New York and Detroit, where he leads their Civic Futures practice. Bryan studied architecture and interior renovation before heading to Finland to help start the Helsinki Design Lab, where he worked on a team that helped improve public institutions through design. In this episode, Bryan and I talk about the value of an architecture degree, the ideas behind strategic design, and the limits of design thinking. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/71-bryan-boyer-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Aug 17, 2022 • 52min
156. Deanna Van Buren (2020 Rerun)
This episode originally aired June 24, 2020.
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Deanna Van Buren is an architect, activist, and the design director and co-founder of Designing Justice + Designing Spaces, an architecture and real estate development non-profit working to end mass incarceration by building infrastructure that attacks its root causes: poverty, racism, unequal access to resources, and the criminal justice system itself. In this conversation, Deanna and Jarrett talk about design as ideology, the relationships between architecture and criminal justice, and how a building can cause real change. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/156-deanna-van-buren-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Aug 3, 2022 • 1h 21min
76. Rudy VanderLans (2018 Rerun)
This episode originally aired May 16, 2018.
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Rudy VanderLans is a graphic designer, type designer, and co-founder of Emigre, the type foundry and magazine he created with his wife Zuzana Licko. In the 1990s, Emigre Magazine became the place to read and discuss issues of graphic design, design criticism, and theory and gave a platform for some of the best design writers like Randy Nakamura, Mr. Keedy, Anne Burdick, and Kenneth FitzGerald. In this episode, Rudy and Jarrett talk about Emigre and his own relationship to graphic design and design theory, his interest in photography, and why the 1990s were such a golden era for design writing. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/76-rudy-vanderlans-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Jul 20, 2022 • 46min
24. Sara Hendren (2017 Rerun)
This episode originally aired April 19, 2017
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Sara Hendren is a designer, artist, writer, and professor whose work centers around adaptive and assistive technologies, prosthetics, inclusive design, accessible architecture, and related ideas. She teaches inclusive design practices at Olin College in Massachusetts and writes and edits Abler, her site to collect and comment on art, adaptive technologies and prosthetics, and the future of human bodies in the built environment. In this episode, Sara and Jarrett talk about her own background and using design to manifest ideas in the world, the role of writing in her own design practice, and how teaches these ideas with her students. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/24-sara-hendren-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Jul 6, 2022 • 1h 5min
81. Cameron Tonkinwise (2018 Rerun)
This episode originally aired June 27, 2018.
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Cameron Tonkinwise is a design theorist, educator, and writer based in Australia. He’s written on subjects ranging from sustainability to interaction design, design thinking to systems design and has taught in design institutions around the world. In this conversation, Cameron and Jarrett talk about his early interest in philosophy and politics and how design became a way he could bridge the gap between those, the challenges with design’s newfound cultural currency, and how designers need to reconsider how their work lives in the world in this current cultural and political moment.Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/81-cameron-tonkinwise-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

11 snips
Jun 22, 2022 • 39min
34. Ellen Lupton (2017 Rerun)
This episode originally aired June 28, 2017.
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In the final episode of my June series on my professors, I talk to the co-director of MICA’s MFA graphic design program Ellen Lupton. In addition to her work at MICA, Ellen is the Senior Curator of Contemporary Design at Cooper Hewitt, and a prolific author of notable design books like Thinking with Type, Type on Screen, and Graphic Design: The New Basics. In our conversation, recorded a few days after graduation, I talk with Ellen about her own career as a designer, writer, curator, and educator, how she thinks about writing for emerging designers, and how the design discourse has changed over the course of her career.
Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/34-ellen-lupton-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

Jun 8, 2022 • 1h 3min
37. Jack Self (2017 Rerun)
This episode originally aired July 26, 2017.
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Jack Self is an architect and writer based in London. He recently founded The Real Foundation, an architecture practice and curatorial institute. The Foundation’s flagship publication, The Real Review is a quarterly magazine about architecture, material culture, and what it means to live today. In this conversation, Jack and Jarrett talk about his career as both architect and writer, the goals and ideas behind The Real Review, and the types of discourses they’d like to see around architecture and design. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/37-jack-self-rerun.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

May 25, 2022 • 52min
215. Carl DiSalvo
Carl DiSalvo is an Associate Professor at the Georgia Institute of Technology where he holds dual appointments in the School of Interactive Computing and the School of Literature, Media, and Communication. His new book, Design as Democratic Inquiry is an exploration of ‘doing design otherwise’. In this conversation, Jarrett and Carl talk about the overlap of critical design and social design, what it means to design for democracy, and the role of writing in his work. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/215-carl-disalvo.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast

7 snips
May 11, 2022 • 1h 4min
214. Liam Young
Liam Young is a speculative architect and director whose work spans design, fiction, and futures. He is cofounder of Tomorrows Thought Today, an urban futures think tank, and Unknown Fields, a nomadic research studio. He is also the director of the Masters in Fiction and Entertainment program at SCI Arc. His latest project is Planet City, a story of a fictional city for the entire population of earth. In this wide-ranging conversation, Jarrett and Liam talk about the elasticity of the term ‘architect’, the value of storytelling and fictions, and co-opting culture to find new audiences. Links from this episode can be found at scratchingthesurface.fm/214-liam-young.
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If you enjoy the show, please consider supporting us on Patreon and get bonus content, transcripts, and our monthly newsletter! www.patreon.com/surfacepodcast